Return to Transcripts main page

Nancy Grace

Body Found in Utah May Be Missing Susan Powell; More Revelations from George and Cindy Anthony

Aired September 15, 2011 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Orlando. After tot mom, Casey Anthony, takes in the sand and the surf in Mexico the past few weeks, her parents, George and Cindy Anthony, appear on TV to explain away the death and the disposal of their 2-year-old granddaughter, Caylee, thrown away like trash in a swampy dump.

Grandparents George and Cindy divulge what they say really happened. And buckle your seatbelts! It`s a shocker! They claim tot mom suffers from either post-partum schizophrenia, a brain tumor or a seizure disorder, all to explain 2-year-old Caylee`s death. This even after tot mom`s CAT scan reveals no such thing.

Bombshell tonight. Did tot mom, Casey Anthony, have an accomplice in the brutal death of 2-year-old Caylee? According to grandmother Cindy, tot mom had help! But grandfather George is not buying it, insisting tot mom drugs Caylee to death and covers up the crime.

Tonight, we learn Casey Anthony is not welcome back to her parents` home. Grandmother Cindy says the stunning not guilty verdict is, quote, a "sign from God" Caylee`s death an accident. And we also learn the reason Cindy insists she knows why tot mom coincidentally borrows a neighbor`s shovel the very day Caylee goes missing, because tot mom wanted to shovel bamboo in the back yard. Yes, she says that! Tonight, inside the minds of grandparents George and Cindy on the murder of their 2-year-old little Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: The day I found out that Caylee had drowned and Casey didn`t tell anybody, if I could have gone to her, I would have shaken her and said, What were you thinking? What were you doing? And why couldn`t you come tell us?

PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, "DR. PHIL": Did Casey cover something up?

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Yes. You can see that. You can see by the lies.

MCGRAW: Do you believe she was in the woods burying that baby?

GEORGE ANTHONY: I believe she was there. You know, to think that...

CINDY ANTHONY: And when that verdict came in and Casey was free, I got my answer, that it was an accident.

MCGRAW: There are millions of people in America right now that want to shake you awake.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I can`t comprehend a human doing it, especially a daughter!

I can`t understand how she could drown and all of a sudden end up at the end of our street.

Some kind of drug.

MCGRAW: Like a chemical baby-sitter.

CINDY ANTHONY: This is the first time you ever said that to me.

MCGRAW: What would be the purpose of sedating the child?

GEORGE ANTHONY: To go out and have a good time, to be with friends, to have this life that she didn`t have with Caylee, I mean, some freedom that she wanted. That`s what I feel.

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m really kind of shocked to hear that today.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, I blame my daughter for Caylee not being here today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Before we take you live to tot mom, Casey Anthony, and bombshell revelations by grandparents and George and Cindy, live to Utah, the mystery surrounding the disappearance of a gorgeous young mom of two, 28-year-old Susan Powell. In the last hours, skeletal remains have been discovered in the Utah desert. Are they the remains of mother of two Susan Powell?

Straight out to Jim Kirkwood, host, KTKK. Jim, thanks for being with us. What can you tell me about the remains that have been found there in the desert?

JIM KIRKWOOD, TALK SHOW HOST, KTKK RADIO (via telephone): Nancy, the -- near Delta is a place called Topaz Mountain, where people go and look for topaz rocks and things like that. And Josh and Susan used to go camping in that area. It`s only 25 to 30 miles from Simpson Springs, where Josh claims he took those two boys two years ago this coming December, back in December of `09 -- took them camping on a sub-zero night.

And it`s interesting they -- from the police search warrant they did on Josh Powell`s home, with -- where he lives with his father in the state of Washington, they got some of the locations they liked to go camping. This was one of them.

They turned four cadaver dogs loose, and they did find human remains. They brought in an archaeologist from the Bureau of Land Management in Fillmore (ph), and she is taking a look. And apparently, the remains -- the human remains are within the range. So this is exciting for those who want this finished.

GRACE: Well, what I don`t understand, Jim Kirkwood, is what led police to that spot to start with. I mean, it`s a pretty obscure spot to just pop up with a search for a dead body. So what led them there, a tip?

KIRKWOOD: No, it was the journals and the records that Josh and Susan kept when they went camping. And so the police got that in the raid on Josh`s home in the state of Washington and went from there. That`s why they centered on this area. And they are treating it as a crime scene, Nancy. They left guards overnight. So the police -- we don`t know for sure what`s going on there yet, but the police are very interested in this site.

GRACE: OK, everybody. For those of you just joining us, it`s possible the remains of mother of two Susan Powell have been found out in the desert. We are waiting to get some type of a positive confirmation as to whether this remains are her.

I want to go to Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist, joining us out of Florida. Heather, how will they be able to tell?

HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, what they`re going to do is look at the context of the soils and any personal effects or artifacts that may be around the skeleton. Then they`ll evaluate the sex, the age, the ancestry, and they`ll look for unique traits on that skeleton that might lead to a positive identification.

One of the first steps that they`re going to take is to determine whether the bones that they found are female are not. In order to make that determination, what they`ll do is they`ll look at the bones of the pelvis. They`ll look to see that those bones are wide, that they could accommodate the birth of a child. And that would tell them they were female.

They`d also double check themselves by looking at the cranium and the mandible. They`d look to see that the mandible had a pointy chin, which is what females have, and that the brow ridge was very slight, very graphile (ph).

Then they`d look to make sure that those skeletal remains are adult, so they`d ensure that there are no baby teeth present in the jaw, that all the bones are fused, meaning the joint surfaces. And then they`d even measure the long bones of the leg determine the stature, how tall these skeletal remains are. Once they do that, they`ll compare that height range with those to establish a positive ID.

GRACE: Right. Right. With us, forensic anthropologist, Heather Walsh-Haney.

Everyone, it`s all unfolding so quickly right now as we go to air. Clark Goldband, also on the story -- Clark, what more can you tell us?

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, law enforcement right now on the ground there in Utah is telling us that they believe there may be a 50/50 chance these remains could be Susan Powell. In fact, law enforcement triple checking themselves. We know that not one, not two, not three, not four, but five cadaver dogs have alerted on Powell. They are now bringing in two additional dogs who were not on the scene to start with so they can just triple check themselves and make sure those dogs also say these are human remains.

From there, we`ll await what happens with the Utah state ME`s office. We`re expecting them to be out there before you know it.

GRACE: You know, Jim Kirkwood with KTKK, joining us tonight, I got a very strong feeling that Josh Powell is not standing by on the scene to determine whether this is his wife, the mother of his children or not. Where is he tonight?

KIRKWOOD: Well, my understanding, he`s still in Washington. It`s interesting that the father, Mr. Cox, flew out on his own today to -- and he wants to go to the site, if the police will allow it. The father is interested enough to show up, but apparently, Josh isn`t, Nancy.

GRACE: You know, it`s very, very disturbing, the allegations that have now been made by Josh Powell`s father. What do you know about that, Clark Goldband?

GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, Steve Powell in the last few weeks has said some pretty shocking things to a lot of people. He has implied that Susan and Steve Powell, who is Josh Powell`s dad, so Susan`s father-in-law, had a sexual relationship over time and that he fantasized about her.

GRACE: Wait, Clark. Did you say the father-in-law said they had a sex relationship?

GOLDBAND: Yes. He said they were falling in love and that he fantasized about her. These diaries that you just heard about, Nancy, just a few moments ago on air were also Steve Powell`s diaries. And he admits in one published report that he wrote some things about Susan in some of those diaries that may be potentially embarrassing. He was quite upset those diaries had been taken.

And also, Nancy, we know Josh Powell has said that Susan is a very sexual person. And they hope to show in these diaries that Susan was promiscuous.

GRACE: So the husband, Josh Powell, and his father, Clark Goldband, are cooking up that she was having a sex relationship with the father-in- law? Let me guess. Are they the only ones that know about that relationship?

GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, I have some of the words here from one of these interviews. And here`s what Steve Powell says. He says, "Susan was very, very sexual with me. She was flirtatious. I mean, I`m her father- in-law, and she would do a lot of things that -- I mean, she just did it." We interacted in, quote, "a lot of sexual ways" because Susan enjoys doing that.

Then the question in this ABC News interview was, "Do you think a part of you started falling in love with Susan?" Steven Powell replies, "That`s pretty likely, yes. I mean, I would say so. And there`s no question in my mind that the feelings were mutual."

GRACE: OK. There you have it. Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, Alan Ripka, Renee Rockwell. So the father-in-law is now piling on and claiming this woman, a mother of two, was having a sex relationship with him. Why? Why, Sue Moss?

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: These kids now know how low their father would go! You know what, father-in-law? Take a polygraph! Take a polygraph! You have this incredible story that none of us believe! Come on! Put it -- put your arm under the machine and let`s see -- let`s see if you`re truly telling the truth!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN POWELL, SUSAN`S FATHER-IN-LAW: Susan was very, very sexual with me. She was very flirtatious. I mean, I`m her father-in-law, and she would do a lot of things that -- that -- I mean, she was just -- she did it. I did. I mean, we interacted in a lot of sexual ways because Susan enjoys doing that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think a part of you started falling in love with Susan?

STEVEN POWELL: That`s pretty likely, yes. I mean, I -- yes, I would say so. And I -- and there`s no question in my mind that the feelings were mutual.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) hear stories about a family that is incredibly dysfunctional. Casey was raised to lie.

It all began when Casey was 8 years old and her father came into her room and began to touch her inappropriately.

He was at that command center. He was home on the 16th. All you have to do is follow the duct tape.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Why not utilize that part of the story and start your defense? I don`t understand how all this went against me, except to bring in that doubt for the jurors to make a decision on, whether to believe me.

MCGRAW: Did it work?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, they accomplished their mission.

MCGRAW: Do you think that attacking you was a factor in her getting off?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, absolutely, they did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You are watching video of George and Cindy Anthony, the grandparents to little Caylee, on "Dr. Phil." That interview turned extremely emotional. And we seem to learn more and more and more. The beat goes on. Now more excuses to explain away the death and disappearance of little Caylee.

We are live and taking your calls. First out to Steve Helling, writer with "People." He just came out with a book this week, "Outraged: The Casey Anthony Story." Steve, you know, the more I hear of the interview, I always think, Well, I`ve heard it all now. But apparently, I`m wrong.

STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE, AUTHOR, "OUTRAGED" (via telephone): Yes, it just seems like every time you think you`ve heard the definitive word from George and Cindy Anthony, they come up with something new. And you know, we`ll see. Five minutes from now...

GRACE: No, wait a minute! Wait, wait, wait, wait! Wait a minute, Steve Helling! I`m not saying that they`re coming up with things because to me, from what I`m hearing, George Anthony is saying he absolutely believes his daughter, tot mom, Casey Anthony, did drug Caylee to death.

HELLING: Well, no, he says possibly, perhaps she did. He doesn`t say -- if you listen to what he said, it`s not definitive. He`s never definitive in what he says.

GRACE: You know what? You`re right. You`ve got him talking about her getting drugged to death. You`ve got the grandmother, Cindy Anthony, saying it was all an accident, trying to weave in a brain tumor, schizophrenia and grand mal seizures.

But also, we learn tonight, Jean Casarez from "In Session," she also claims tot mom may have had some type of a psychotic break, and tries to explain away the day, Jean -- did you hear this part? -- where tot mom goes to a neighbor to borrow a shovel, coincidentally, at the same time Caylee goes missing. She says she`s convinced tot mom wanted to shovel bamboo in the back yard?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Right. After she backed up the car inside the garage, went and borrowed the shovel. We heard the testimony in court. She believes it was to get out some bamboo that she was tripping over or maybe to try to break the lock to the shed.

GRACE: And what can you tell me also about the claim that the defense team -- this would be Jose Baez, which -- bombshell, Baez new -- has a new client now. It`s Gary Giordano, the American down in Aruba who is charged in connection with the disappearance of an American tourist, Robyn Gardner. So that`s his new client.

But now they`re claiming that tot mom`s defense knew all about tot mom`s illnesses, that they knew about the brain tumor, they knew about the seizures, and they covered it up and instead came up with that wacky theory that she had been sexually molested.

CASAREZ: Cindy said that she told the defense. The defense just wouldn`t touch and didn`t go in that direction.

GRACE: So this is my question. Ellie Jostad, when did they tell Cindy Anthony that they weren`t going to go with the truth that tot mom`s got a brain tumor or a seizure disorder, that the defense was going to be molestation?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, this is the part that they teased for Monday`s show. They`ve got a little bit more of this interview to run. But they say that Cindy Anthony apparently was called by Jose Baez or a member of the defense team and asked to meet him alone. And that was when they found out -- and we believe it was about six weeks before opening statements -- that`s when they found out they were going with this accidental death theory. And it appears that that`s when they were also told that they would make the claim that George Anthony molested Casey.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Julie in Canada. Hi, Julie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Looking forward to seeing you on "Dancing With the Stars."

GRACE: Hi, dear. Oh, Julie, Julie...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?

GRACE: I`ve got my dance shoes on right now! I`ve been practicing all day and came straight here. It`s brutal, Julie!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we`re rooting for you in Canada.

GRACE: But Canada -- Canada can vote. Canada can vote. What`s your question, love?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I was calling about the -- I have a question about the mal seizure. I was wondering how she was able to hold a driver`s license because I know people that have seizures, and they`re not allowed to drive.

GRACE: We`re going to answer that and more when we come back. Liz, keep Julia in Canada on the phone.

More revelations from grandparents George and Cindy Anthony explaining away the death and disappearance of 2-year-old Caylee.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GEORGE ANTHONY: She had been taking money from my wife`s purse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. You started to...

(CROSSTALK)

GEORGE ANTHONY: $20, $40, maybe more than that at a time, though deposit slips that she had -- she had forged a deposit slip for $4,400.

MCGRAW: Where was she getting money?

GEORGE ANTHONY: She`d borrow money from me or take money from me. Same way as you, back and forth.

CINDY ANTHONY: Well, see, that`s what...

MCGRAW: Was she stealing?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, absolutely, she did. Sometimes Cindy would even ask me, she says, George, I`m missing $20 from my wallet, or something. And I would say, I didn`t take any money from your wallet. When I had $20 or $30 in mine, I`d go and look in mine, and mine would be gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. More revelations from tot mom, Casey Anthony`s, grandparents (SIC), George and Cindy, as they try their best to get their mind around the evidence that came out at trial.

You know, I`ve got Julie in Canada. Let`s answer her question. Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com, if the whole grand mal seizure disorder is true, could she have had a driver`s license?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: It doesn`t seem like it. In most states, you cannot. This is something that you would have to put on your form and you would have it -- but who knows with Casey. I mean, she never told the truth about anything. I`m not even sure she had a driver`s license. She doesn`t have a passport, so she may not even have a driver`s license.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. New York, Susan Moss, Alan Ripka also in New York, also joining us tonight, Renee Rockwell out of Atlanta.

I think they`re right, Renee. I don`t think you can get a regular driver`s license if you have a seizure disorder. So that whole theory is bogus. And remember, Renee, she just had CAT scan. No brain tumor, nothing.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, if you do have that disorder, you can prove that you`re medicated -- that`s easy to check up on -- and that you`ve gone a certain period of time without a seizure...

GRACE: But none of that happened.

ROCKWELL: ... you can get a driver`s license. But that`s all the kind -- that kind of stuff, there are paper trails for. So I`m going to have to agree with you that`s bogus.

But why are we still talking about this? These are two people -- she`s walked. She`s done. She`s on her little probation. These two people are getting on television. Don`t forget, they`ve been questioned extensively by the police. They`re looking for some trouble if they are talking and they start changing their story.

GRACE: Well, you know what? That`s a good point, Alan Ripka, because there are so many lawsuits still pending. What they are saying could absolutely affect a lawsuit. And remember, although there are no perjury charges against Cindy Anthony now, the statute of limitations has not run on that.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It hasn`t. And I`ll tell you right now, these prosecutors are probably listening to every word, and they have the transcripts of what was said under oath. And if either one of them say anything else, they could be prosecuted for perjury and obstruction of justice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY: How could you do that to her? Why didn`t she tell us? Why didn`t she give us some kind of ideas of what was going on in her life? But she didn`t. She deceived us. She lied to us, her own parents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Shut up. I`m talking. I am talking.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I am falling apart.

G. ANTHONY: I fell apart every day from the 15th of July, 2008. I went out in August and purchased a handgun because I wanted to go out and find answers. I tried to commit suicide. I tried to take my own life because I just couldn`t deal with the loss of Caylee anymore. I just couldn`t do it anymore.

C. ANTHONY: I remember our attorney at that time was Brad Conway. And he had said that they had determined an identity to the remains. I said, Caylee`s dead, isn`t she? And he said yes.

G. ANTHONY: I believe that Casey or someone else that she was with possibly gave too much to Caylee. She fell asleep and didn`t wake up. That`s what I feel.

DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST. "DR. PHIL": Gave too much what?

G. ANTHONY: Possibly some kind of drug or something like that. I mean there`s been speculation about Xanax or whatever it might be. She was possibly in the back of the car. I do. And she was transported around and she was placed down there at the end of our street. That`s what I feel.

Do I believe the defense, what they were saying, it was an accidental drowning? No. Why did it take three years for us to be told that? Why did it take three years? Now we were told two weeks or so before trial was going to get started by the defense. I just don`t understand.

I can`t understand how if my granddaughter was out of her life and she was gone, how she could take this next step? I could not be out celebrating or having a good time.

MCGRAW: Do you believe that this is out of context and is acceptable behavior?

G. ANTHONY: Personally, no, I don`t. And that`s where her and I struggle with some things sometimes. Giving her an excuse of why she was here or there.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You are watching extremely emotional video. Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony in an interview with Dr. Phil where they do their best to explain what happened to 2-year-old little Caylee, their only grandchild.

We are taking your calls. I want to go to Ellie Jostad on this.

Is it true that Cindy Anthony basically says tot mom walking free was god`s will?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Yes, that`s right. She said that she prayed to god for closure and some answer about what happened to Caylee. And she said when she heard that verdict, that was her answer. That Caylee`s death was an accident and that god set Casey Anthony free.

GRACE: You know, Steve Helling, joining us from "People" magazine, his book, "Outrage: The Casey Anthony Story" is out this week, it seemed to me like George and Cindy disagree quite a bit in their interview with Dr. Phil. What did you perceive?

STEVE HELLING, STAFF WRITER, PEOPLE MAGAZINE, AUTHOR OF "OUTRAGE: THE CASEY ANTHONY STORY" (via phone): I saw the same thing, Nancy. It was interesting to me to see that George, for the first time, I think, we really heard something about what George thought. And you see Cindy shaking her head no or disagreeing with him. And I think that`s happened - - that doesn`t happen publicly with them very much. So I thought that was very telling.

GRACE: To Dr. Leslie Seppinni, joining us from L.A., clinical psychologist and body language expert.

Dr. Seppinni, thank you for being with us. You know have you ever noticed that people invoke god and drag him or her into the craziest scenarios? Like the jury verdict was god`s will? Does that mean then that Caylee`s murder and lying out on a swamp decomposing, was that god`s will, too?

I mean it`s just so twisted. But, Leslie, when people have their back against the wall where they`re at rock bottom, as I imagine George and Cindy have been, I guess they struggle to try to make sense of things.

LESLIE SEPPINNI, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, they absolutely struggle to try to make sense of things. But we`re dealing with a woman who`s delusional at this point. She does not want to hear the truth no matter what it is. And oftentimes when people become delusional, they turn to god. They turn to religion because they don`t feel any core sense of self.

And we see that with Cindy time and time again. Cindy herself is a pathological liar. Cindy lies and lies and lies to cover up everybody else.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Now listen, I`m OK with saying tot mom is a pathological liar because she`s proven that. But I see Cindy Anthony, and I know you might not agree with this, as trying her best, even if she has do a backbend to do it to somehow get her life back the way it was before Caylee was murdered, where she could still believe her daughter was good and her daughter would never do anything like this.

SEPPINNI: But we have to take this one step further.

GRACE: I just don`t see her as a pathological liar.

SEPPINNI: Nancy, you have to take it a step further. This mother, before this trial, before 2006, has been lying for Casey for years. Her brother Rick and her had an ongoing dialogue via e-mail where the brother that anyone can look up where the brother calls her out on numerous lies. Even the lie that she helped Casey cover up that she graduated high school.

And so we have lies going back and lies going back and likes going back, where there is a pattern here. Now I`m not saying she`s a mean, hateful, destructive sociopathic person in a sense of like a Casey. What I am saying there is a pattern that goes beyond enabling, where this woman`s ego is so fragile that the mere thought that her daughter committed this act would shatter her.

GRACE: OK, Dr. Seppinni, you`re right and I`m wrong on that. When you lay it out for me like that, yes, Cindy did cover for years. And see, I still -- because I`ve met Cindy and George Anthony. And I`ve watched them in court crying. Like somebody yanked their heart out of their chest during all of this.

It`s just hard for me to say she`s a liar because I really feel that they`re trying so hard to just hold onto their sanity and hold their family together. That doesn`t excuse it. I know. I know. You`re right.

Out to the lines, Marcia in Pennsylvania, hi, Marcia, what`s your question?

MARCIA, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.

GRACE: Thank you for calling in.

MARCIA: I just want to tell you I`m very excited -- I`m very excited about you being on "Dancing with the Stars."

GRACE: Thank you, all the money is going to National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Finally, I get to put my money where my mouth is. We talk about missing children all the time. Now I`m going to get to do something about it. So thank you, Marcia.

MARCIA: You`re welcome. You are a trending topic on Twitter all day the day they announced it.

My question is, do you think that Cindy gave Jose Baez the photos of Caylee in the pool and opening the door to help with the defense behind George`s back?

GRACE: So do I think George knew about those photos?

MARCIA: Do you think she did it behind his back? Gave Jose the photos behind her --

GRACE: Good question. Good question.

Steve Helling from "People" magazine, what about it?

HELLING: Well, it wouldn`t necessarily surprise me. George and Cindy do things without consulting with the other one. That`s a given. We`ve seen that happen time and time again.

You know the only people that would know the answer to that are George, Cindy and Jose Baez. And nobody has actually said either way on that.

GRACE: What about now Jose Baez representing the guy down in Aruba who is believed -- who is charged in connection with the disappearance of American tourist Robyn Gardner. It`s Gary Giordano.

What about it, Paul Penzone? Kind of reminds me like when Johnny Cochran would walk in the room. Everybody knew you were guilty.

PAUL PENZONE, DIRECT OF PREVENTION PROGRAMS, CHILDHELP.ORG, FMR. SERGEANT, PHOENIX PD: It doesn`t surprise me at all because he took a case here which we know had a very disappointing outcome but he feels as though he`s a star right now so he`s going to take advantage of those opportunities.

That case in Aruba is tragic also and I`m hoping that justice will be served there.

I want to commend you, though, on this, Nancy. NCMEC is a phenomenal organization. The National Center for Missing and Endangered Children. So I`m hoping that you win that because the money going there will serve many children across the country.

GRACE: Hey, Paul, what do you make of George and Cindy going on Dr. Phil and giving all these theories?

PENZONE: You know what? I`m kind of torn with it because there were a lot of -- I mean Casey -- Caylee has been a victim in this. But there are a lot of people who are still suffering.

I see there is a mom who`s got some challenges. And she`s trying to find her way back to a place where she can feel better about herself and her family. And a man whose law enforcement background and his analytical thinking and his processing tells him what really happened. And he`s being as forthright as he can with that. But there`s still so many unknown questions. Not as far as who`s responsible but our ability to prove what occurred.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Rachel in Massachusetts. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

RACHEL, CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Nancy. Oh my gosh, I love you. You are wonderful. I thought your coverage of the Casey Anthony trial was historic. And good for you for all those naysayers who try to keep you down. I love you.

GRACE: Thank you. I appreciate that. And it`s only going to get worse next Monday night when I start dancing around in a sequined dress and high heels. You can see that coming.

What`s your question, love?

RACHEL: We love you. I have kind of a twofold question. The first was, do we know how much money they got for the interview? And the second, you guys just touched upon a little bit. But I`m curious what kind of benefit this was serving for George and Cindy to do this interview, especially considering that they weren`t really on the same page too much? Was this a PR move? I know I`m kind of confused about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

C. ANTHONY: So where do you take this caring young person who cared about everybody, loved kids, and then all of the sudden something tragically happens to Caylee, and then Casey completely goes off the deep end?

There was never signs that Casey was an unfit mother. She was an awesome mother.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

C. ANTHONY: And your gut tells you that she`s close?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: She`s not far. I know in my heart she`s not far. I can feel it.

C. ANTHONY: I know Casey knows where Caylee was placed. I mean I know in my heart.

MCGRAW: Did she put her there?

C. ANTHONY: I`m not sure she put her there by herself or someone helped her. I was told that Caylee was found in a different spot than where Casey thought she was. And that was another reason why she couldn`t come clean because if she would have said Caylee drowned and then couldn`t produce Caylee`s body, then they wouldn`t believe her.

But I would never -- I would never place anybody that I love like Caylee was found. I would never do that. And I don`t -- I don`t think that that was right.

G. ANTHONY: I can`t excuse her for whatever happened. I can`t do that. She`s responsible for Caylee, and whatever happened to Caylee, she has knowledge of that.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK. I don`t even know if that made sense. I`ve got to rethink what Cindy Anthony just said trying to explain away the death and disappearance of her little granddaughter Caylee.

You`re seeing very emotional video of George and Cindy Anthony on Dr. Phil.

We are taking your calls live.

Ellie Jostad, what is she trying to say? What`s Cindy saying about tot mom did or did not know where Caylee body was? And what does that prove?

JOSTAD: Right. Well, we`ve been hashing this out amongst ourselves on the staff. We can`t quite figure out what she`s trying to say either, Nancy. Either she`s trying to suggest that the body was moved either by Casey or by somebody else, or maybe she`s trying to say that --

GRACE: Let me guess. Poor utility meter reader Roy Kronk. Right?

JOSTAD: Maybe.

GRACE: Let`s pull him out of the attic and trot him around.

JOSTAD: Yes. I mean they did it in the opening statement. So yes, I don`t know if she`s trying to say that. If she`s trying to say that she told the police Casey -- or Caylee drowned, but the body wasn`t where it was. They wouldn`t believe her.

Well, the police already didn`t believe her. So I don`t understand quite what she`s getting at there.

GRACE: Well, the reality, Jean Casarez, is that grandmother Cindy is saying tot mom did not know where -- that the body had been moved or she didn`t really know where the body was. That would exonerate her.

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Or could she say that there was an accident and that Casey panicked. She knew what she`d done with the body, but she could never confess to the accident because then they would ask her where the body was, and she would have no explanation. Because that`s a crime to do what someone did.

GRACE: And it also goes to Cindy Anthony`s theory that there was an accomplice that either helped kill or hide Caylee`s body.

To Dr. Zhongxue Hua, Union County chief medical examiner.

Doctor, thank you for being with us. Question, under George`s theory, George Anthony`s theory, about what his own daughter did, he seems to suggest that tot mom and others may have been drugging little Caylee and then finally gave her too much.

Would drugs of that nature be in your system, for instance, your hair, for a period of time so that could have been found forensically at autopsy?

DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION COUNTY, NJ, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Yes, if someone chronically exposed to certain medication, it would be easily detected from the hair because normal hair grows at a fixed sort of rate. Usually like one millimeter a day. You just take different sections from the roots of the hair. Do an analysis. Quantify which kind of medication we`re talking about. Certainly would give you answer. But in this case the obvious answer is no.

GRACE: And back to Rachel in Massachusetts`s question regarding why George and Cindy Anthony are doing interviews, how much money did they get -- Rachel, was that your question?

RACHEL: Yes, that was my question. Especially considering, like, we`re talking about that they don`t really seem to be on the same page.

GRACE: Right.

RACHEL: We`re two months outside of this very controversial verdict. What benefit is this for them?

GRACE: Good question.

Alexis Tereszcuk, radaronline.com. What do you think?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: Well, Dr. Phil has said that he was going to make a contribution to Caylee`s fund. It`s the foundation that George Cindy founded in Caylee`s name to help try to find missing children around the country.

The thing is, the foundation hasn`t actually been set up yet. No papers have been filed. So he hasn`t made the contribution yet. Eventually he says that in the future when they have it set up, he will make a contribution. But he did say none of the money will go to George and Cindy.

So it may not, but it seems like it`s a money thing right now. They desperately clearly want to talk. They would have turned it down if they didn`t want to do it. They want to tell their side of the story. Interestingly, they both said that if Casey is watching this, they said that a few times during the interview.

So I guess this is the only way that they can get to their daughter. They know that she has access to a television. She has access to everything now that she`s free. They`re thinking that maybe she will see this. And this will convince her to call them because they have not had any contact at all in quite a long time with her.

GRACE: You know, both her parents fell on the sword during the trial. Cindy Anthony claiming she`s the one that sent those damning computer -- did the computer searches that incriminated tot mom and more.

To Steve Helling with "People" magazine, author of "Outrage: The Caylee Anthony Story," you say that now she`s getting psychiatric treatment?

HELLING: Yes. You know for a long time we`ve been hearing that she was going to get psychiatric treatment. She was going to start being -- working through her psychological issues. And we all were kind of wondering when it was going to happen. And I confirmed today that yes, she has been seeing a grief counselor. Yes, she`s scheduled to see a psychiatrist now. That it`s actually happening and she is being looked at. And she is being evaluated.

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute, Helling. You said she`s scheduled to see a shrink. That`s not the same as she`s seeing a shrink.

HELLING: Well, she`s been seeing a grief counselor for a while now. For a few weeks. And now --

GRACE: OK, you know what? Wait, stop. Stop. You don`t murder somebody and then see a grief counselor, Steve Helling.

You know -- Leslie Seppinni, help me out. You murder somebody then you see a grief counselor?

SEPPINNI: Well, Casey Anthony is -- you know, a grief counselor for Casey Anthony is, you know, like you and I going to life coaching. I mean the fact of the matter is, it`s not real grief counseling. If this woman had any grieving, any sense of remorse and guilt, she wouldn`t have waited, you know, three years to claim an accident and beyond that, the fact of the matter is she knew where the body was, she knew her child was dead.

And so where is the grief and remorse? If she was going to start grieving, she would have done it when it happened.

GRACE: And what do we know, Ellie Jostad --

SEPPINNI: It`s a ploy. It`s a ploy.

GRACE: -- about whether she`s been welcomed back into the home?

JOSTAD: Well, George --

GRACE: I think I`ve got Ellie with me.

JOSTAD: Yes, I`m sorry, Nancy. Yes, George Anthony is going to say on Monday, we believe -- he`s going to tell Dr. Phil that Casey Anthony is not welcome back in the home if he is there. However, it seems that Cindy Anthony would welcome her back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

C. ANTHONY: During that time did I socialize with friends and maybe laugh once or twice at a joke, yes. And if someone would have isolated that in a photograph and plastered it all over, would I be just as guilty as Casey?

MCGRAW: Cindy, you weren`t involved in the death.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you present in your home when Caylee Anthony died?

G. ANTHONY: No. And when I heard that today, it hurt really bad, because if I would have known something had happened to Caylee, we wouldn`t be here today. There`s nothing I could say to her because I blame her for Caylee not being here.

MCGRAW: You blamed her then and you blame her today.

G. ANTHONY: Yes, sir, I do. I do.

MCGRAW: Do you think it was chloroform?

G. ANTHONY: That I don`t know. See now that`s been another speculation of I guess inside of the trunk of the car that was chloroform traces found. I don`t know. I mean, it`s possible. I`m not really sure. Will I ever know the truth from Casey, I probably won`t. I probably would never know.

But do I believe that Caylee was in the trunk of that car at one point? Sure, there`s evidence that points to that and I have to go along with that.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Explosive video of George and Cindy Anthony on Dr. Phil explaining their point of view, what they believe happened to little Caylee.

We are taking your calls. And now Jose Baez, tot mom`s defense lawyer at trial, representing Gary Giordano who is held -- not charged -- held in connection with the death of American tourist Robyn Gardner.

And Jean Casarez, their whole look at this revolves around it being god`s will that tot mom was set free.

CASAREZ: For Cindy, yes. For George, George is saying felony murder. That is what George is saying. That a killing occurred during the commission of aggravated child abuse.

CASAREZ: You know you`re right, Jean. And it is very disturbing that they -- Cindy anyway -- want tot mom to go on and have more children.

Let`s stop and remember Marine Corporal Dustin Libby, 22, Presque Isle, Maine, killed Iraq. On a second tour, awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Loved time with friends and fellow Marines. Lost his life before his dream wedding to fiance Janine. Leaves behind parents Jenny and Justin, brother Chris.

Dustin Libby, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us.

You know September marks Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. Joshua`s Wish, having the second annual walk September 17th, Marshall Law School, Macon, Georgia, to raise funds for research in honor of 4-year-old Joshua who lost his battle to live fighting a brain tumor. Goal, $10,000.

For more info, go to Joshuaswish.org.

And best wishes tonight to Philly friend, veteran lawyer Joe Lawless, recovering tonight.

Stay strong, Joe.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END