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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Casey Anthony Undergoing Psychotherapy
Aired September 16, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Casey Anthony finally goes to see a shrink. "People" says the most hated woman in America is now undergoing psychological treatment. Will Casey finally get the help she needs, or will she lie her way through therapy?
Then, unimaginable horror. Cops say a 25-year-old woman has confessed to killing her newborn twins, smothering them to cover up their cries. Why was she so desperate to hide her pregnancy? I`ll talk exclusively to the prosecutor and the accused mother`s attorney.
And is he winning now? A radically new Charlie Sheen steps back onto the world stage, sounding shockingly humble and contrite. So is he groveling? And is it all for show? Will Hollywood ever let him back onto the A-list?
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: There is something seriously wrong with my daughter.
CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED OF MURDER: I`m getting sick right now. I can feel it.
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m almost wondering if she didn`t develop postpartum schizophrenia. Does she have a brain tumor? Were the seizures caused by stress?
JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: How in the world can a mother wait 30 days before ever reporting her child missing?
CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on.
BAEZ: It`s insane. It`s bizarre. Something`s just not right about that.
DR. PHIL MCGRAW, TALK SHOW HOST: Isn`t it possible that this is the actions of an unconscionable psychopath?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything that`s come out of your mouth is a lie. Everything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not making excuses for her. But...
MCGRAW: I think you are.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think she is, too. Is Casey Anthony finally seeking psychological treatment? And can she even get the help she needs while hiding deep in Florida?
Good evening, everyone. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you from New York City.
Word has just come in from Casey`s camp that the most hated woman in America is officially in therapy. "People" magazine reporting that Casey has been undergoing grief counseling and now, three years after the death of little Caylee and months after her release from jail, now, now -- now Casey will begin seeing a psychiatrist, and a female psychiatrist at that.
The source says, quote, "She needs serious help. We`ll see what this counseling will do." I think we all know she needs serious help, that`s for sure.
How deep are Casey`s psychological problems? That`s such a hotly debated topic that even her parents don`t agree. Listen to Cindy Anthony talking to Dr. Phil.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCGRAW: Is Casey disturbed?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. I think something terribly...
MCGRAW: She`s seriously disturbed?
CINDY ANTHONY: I think there is something seriously wrong with my daughter, in her thought processes. I think that something started before or during her pregnancy and after Caylee was born. I think something started to trigger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cindy says, "I don`t know what`s wrong with Casey, but I know she`s mentally ill."
George, however, is sick of his wife`s excuses from his daughter. And we`re going to have more fireworks from that Dr. Phil interview in just seconds.
But first, straight out to "People" magazine`s Steve Helling, the author of the amazing new e-book, "Outrage: The Casey Anthony Story."
Steve, thanks for being here tonight. You broke this news that Casey is now in psychological therapy. What do you know? What can you tell us so we can get a sense of how serious this therapy is?
STEVE HELLING, AUTHOR, "OUTRAGE": Well, one thing we know is that she has been seeing a grief counselor for quite a while now, since in the past month or so. We know who that is. We know how much she`s been seeing this person. And you know, the one thing that`s interesting about it is that she went to see a grief counselor before seeing a psychiatrist, which is her next step, which starts next week.
So it looks like this is going to be something being done in phases. And we`ll see what happens after she starts going to see this psychiatrist.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, anybody who`s ever been in therapy -- and believe you me, I`ve done years of therapy. And it`s all about getting real. It`s all about stopping to lie to yourself and owning up to what`s really going on in your life. Easier said than done when it comes to Casey Anthony.
Listen to spiritual speaker and best-selling author, Marianne Williamson, talk about Casey right here on ISSUES.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIANNE WILLIAMSON, SPEAKER/AUTHOR: Is she in her own heart, whether it`s in the church, in the psychotherapist`s office, in the closet of her own heart, with a confessor of some kind, with a 12-step program, whatever it is. If and when she comes to that moment of -- it`s called the confession of our sins by some. It`s called admitting the exact nature of your wrongs. Then I believe that a profound alchemical process will occur.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Secrets can be murder. Casey does have a lot she needs to spill out, to confess, to reveal, whatever you want to call it, to tell the truth.
She never revealed how little Caylee`s body got into the woods, even given your assumption that she wasn`t lying about the accidental drowning. She never explained how the child got from the pool to the woods. She ever talked about why she lied and said there was a nanny, about why she partied, why she got a tattoo that said "the beautiful life" in Italian, why she waited until the trial, till the eve of the trial to concoct this drowning story.
Dr. Judy Kuriansky, clinical psychologist, is this -- is this the centerpiece of her getting better, is to get real? And can she afford to get real if getting real with a therapist would involve incriminating herself?
DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think it would be wonderful if she got real, but Jane, I don`t think it`s going to happen. When you take a person who has a psychopathic kind of personality, who is a pathological liar, it`s very, very difficult, I know, as a psychologist, to get them to be truthful and -- and for what would she be truthful?
I also don`t think this stage idea is right for her. She had a grief counselor. OK. But her problems are way beyond grief. She`s got all kinds of losses here. Loss now of her father, being accused of abusing her. And then she has been accused of him and he`s now saying that she is for blame for her daughter`s death.
It is so complicated. And on top of that, seeing a psychiatrist -- this is very revealing. She`s gone from a grief counselor to a female psychiatrist. That says to me psychiatry is about giving medication, not about like we are counselors and psychologists, sitting and talking about the issues and talking about the feelings.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, you think she`s just going to get antidepressants.
KURIANSKY: I think that`s right. This is the next stage is antidepressants.
But I also think, Jane, that she needs to be in residential treatment. She needs a whole complex of care around her, especially since she`s got threats against her life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A lot of people think residential treatment, i.e., behind bars, but she`s not behind bars, because a jury found her not guilty. But all this talk of Casey`s mental illness kind of makes me wonder, are we just buying into the whole defense theory that they revealed in opening statements?
Here is Jose Baez during that unforgettable opening statement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: How in the world can a mother wait 30 days before ever reporting her child missing? It`s insane. It`s bizarre. Something`s just not right about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, Jose said the reason that she`s insane is because she was molested by her father.
Now, here`s what I find fascinating. Cindy accepts that, oh, this new story that was concocted on the eve of trial -- possibly concocted -- about Caylee, oh, she died accidentally and she was never missing. She was never kidnapped. There was never any nanny. She died accidentally in the swimming pool where she drowned.
Cindy says, "Well, I believe that part, but I just don`t believe the part about my husband being there and picking up the child. And I don`t believe the part about my husband molesting my daughter, which is why she covered it all up and didn`t tell anyone."
Levi Page, do you find it fascinating that Cindy, sort of believes as much as she can of her daughter`s story, and then puts the brakes on just at the point it begins to implicate her husband?
LEVI PAGE, CRIME BLOGGER: I -- I think that`s a good point, Jane. And I also find it revealing in the Dr. Phil interview where Cindy Anthony said that she alone met with Casey`s defense team to talk about what they were going -- their strategy was at the trial.
And George Anthony seemed pretty mad. He was angry. He said, "Well, why wasn`t I invited to this meeting." Well, he wasn`t invited because they were going to throw him under the bus, Jane.
And I think that we`re going to see some contention between George and Cindy Andy.
And I also find it interesting about this report from "People" magazine that she`s seeing a therapist, a grief expert. I hope it`s not the same grief expert that testified at her trial, because that woman was a little loony herself. Some thought she was drunk when she took the stand.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Joey Jackson, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. If she says something incriminating to her therapist -- as Marianne Williams said, she`s got to get real. Say she says something incriminating. Does the therapist then have an obligation to report that to police?
JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, listen. It`s about confidentiality. And we go into sessions. You know, we generically go into sessions with therapists, with doctors, with lawyers, anticipating that what we say is going to be protected. And so I don`t think there`s that concern.
The other thing, Jane, is -- is that there`s a double jeopardy issue. It`s not like she`s going to be tried again for an offense, because you can`t be tried twice.
The real issue here, though, Jane, at the end of the day is do we believe in redemption or do we not? Can she turn this around or can she not? She has a lot of issues. They have to come to the fore. She has to emote and ultimately accept responsibility, and I think there is a future for her, however slight.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But the first thing she has to do is tell somebody the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, which we have not heard yet, in my humble opinion.
Cops say a woman -- this story, just -- it`s so upsetting. It`s so upsetting. She`s accused of murdering her twin babies right after they were born. Hiding the pregnancy from everybody. How do you hide the pregnancy of a twin? Unbelievable.
And more Casey Anthony. You won`t believe some of the things that she and her parents are saying now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: What do you want me to tell Zanny?
CASEY ANTHONY: That she needs to return Caylee.
CINDY ANTHONY: What do you think her reasons are?
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I don`t know.
CINDY ANTHONY: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The extraordinary Dr. Phil interview with Cindy and George.
MCGRAW: Your theory is that she is a victim in this in some way.
CINDY ANTHONY: I truly believe that, because there was never any signs that Casey was an unfit mother. She was an awesome mother.
CASEY ANTHONY: I just want to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did. Sorry. Sorry.
MCGRAW: There are millions of people in America right now that want to shake you awake.
CINDY ANTHONY: You call her a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) One more time, and (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
MCGRAW: Cindy`s answer to that is, "Look, I think she may have a brain tumor."
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know what happened. I`m almost wondering if she didn`t develop postpartum schizophrenia. I`m not making justifications for that.
Were the seizures caused by stress? I don`t know.
And I`m not making excuses for her.
MCGRAW: I think you are.
You don`t include the possibility that she used that shovel to dig a hole in the ground in the woods to bury her dead baby.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news. We are learning tonight from "People" magazine that Casey Anthony is going into therapy with a female psychiatrist, but I`m wondering tonight, does she need family therapy? And are family secrets somehow intertwined with this case?
George and Cindy seem to be divided, George saying, "Hey, I don`t buy her story of an accidental drowning. I certainly wasn`t there."
Cindy saying, "Oh, I believe that little Caylee died accidentally in the swimming pool. I just don`t believe the part where my daughter claims that my husband was there finding the body." So, she`s sort of picking little bits and pieces of her daughter`s story to believe.
Listen very carefully to what Cindy says. She says, "I was told," in this upcoming clip from Dr. Phil. Ask yourself told by who?
And we`re going to get Jean Casarez` analysis of this from Dr. Phil.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not sure if she put her there by herself or if someone helped her. I was told that Caylee was found in a different spot than where Casey thought she was and that was another reason why she couldn`t come clean, because if she would have said Caylee drowned, and then couldn`t produce Caylee`s body, then they wouldn`t believe her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, now, you remember. Here is the -- tragically, the scene where the remains of little Caylee were found. And there was a big sort of scandal when a month before the child`s remains were found, a private investigator who had worked with the Anthony family went right to that very similar location, right there within a few feet, and was running around, looking for remains.
And everybody wondered, wow, did -- was he sent there by Cindy? Did Cindy know more than she was talking about? She claims that it was a psychic who led her to that area. And that`s why she pointed a private eye in that direction.
But I got to ask Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session," in that clip, she says, "I was told that Caylee was found in a different spot than where Casey thought she was." Well, who the heck would have told her that? Does that imply that maybe Cindy just slipped there and knows more than she`s maintained all this time?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": You know, that`s huge, Jane. If you really think about that part of the -- of the sentence, that`s huge, because she is admitting that Casey knew Caylee was dumped in the woods, but she was found in a different location from where Casey thought she was.
We know animals moved the remains. We know all of that. So I think she`s trying to say that Casey wasn`t there, but was aware of who had taken the body and placed it there.
She`s also saying, in the other part of the sentence, that the reason Casey couldn`t come forward and say it was an accident and why we went through a death penalty trial, is that, if she admitted it was an accident, and the next question is, "Well, where is your baby that had this terrible accident," and she couldn`t come forth and tell them, "Oh, she`s over in the -- in the dump right there, in the trash dump near our home."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Steve Helling, you know all the nuances of this case. There has always been a sense of that perhaps Cindy and George or Lee knew more than they were saying, that there were a lot of layers underneath the story and that we were just getting a tiny sliver of the surface. What are your thoughts about -- about Cindy`s comments on Dr. Phil?
HELLING: I do think they were strange, because you know, last we knew, Casey, you know -- Casey said that George was the one who moved the - - it`s got so far around that it twists my head around, Jane, to try and figure out what people are saying today as opposed to yesterday or the day before, because it changes on a daily basis. What she said I think could have been incriminating, in saying that maybe somebody else in the family was involved. But, you know, who knows at this point?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And we`ve got to talk more about this huge interview that Dr. Phil did with Casey`s parents. And by the way, this coming Monday, they`re going to go behind the scenes at the Casey Anthony trial. And we`re going to bring you all the latest on Monday from what Dr. Phil reveals about Casey Anthony behind the scenes at the trial.
But let`s focus now on Casey`s dad, George. What exactly does he believe? Let`s listen to a clip from Dr. Phil.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G. ANTHONY: Do I believe the defense what they were saying, it was an accidental drowning? No. Why did it take three years for us to be told that? Why did it take three years? And we were told two weeks or so before trial was going to get started by the defense. I just don`t understand.
MCGRAW: So, you think it was like a chemical babysitter. We need to sedate this child so what? So -- she could leave? What would be the purpose of sedating the child?
G. ANTHONY: To go out, have a good time, to be with friends, to have this life that she didn`t have with Caylee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joey Jackson, the timing of all of this accidental drowning being revealed on the eve of the trial. Why didn`t the jury take that into account?
JACKSON: You know, it`s interesting, Jane. Apparently, they did not.
And you know, what`s more interesting is the dichotomy between George and between Cindy. I really wonder what kind of discussions they have when nobody is looking. They disagree on everything. It`s amazing. George is keeping it real; Cindy is not.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they`re staying together so far.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCGRAW: I said, isn`t it possible that this is just a really bad character flaw? That this is the actions of an unconscionable psychopath or sociopath.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Right.
MCGRAW: And I`m not saying Casey is that. I don`t know. I haven`t evaluated her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony going into therapy, that`s our big breaking news tonight. But does Cindy need therapy, too? Apparently, she is getting some psychological counseling.
She`s got an answer for everything her daughter did, including borrowing that shovel from a neighbor, which prosecutors said was extremely incriminating. But here is Cindy`s explanation, told to Dr. Phil.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: I think she borrowed a shovel.
MCGRAW: And what do you think she did with that shovel?
CINDY ANTHONY: I think she did what she said she did with it, and you might laugh at this, but she needed to cut a piece of bamboo. And the shed was locked once again.
MCGRAW: Is it suspicious to you?
CINDY ANTHONY: The shovel? No. Because I use the shovel quite often during the summer.
MCGRAW: Suspicious to you?
G. ANTHONY: Well, I mean, our next-door neighbor when he did his witness statement, he didn`t watch Casey completely. He was doing some other chores around his house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: At a crucial time period when her daughter vanishes and she now admits, died, Casey Anthony borrowed a shovel from a neighbor. But the denial is really so classic on Cindy`s part that she accepts this absurd story that Casey just suddenly decided to cut bamboo.
Dr. Judy Kuriansky, when somebody is in that kind of deep denial, are they aware of how absurd their own statements appear to the public?
KURIANSKY: Jane, they got the story down. As a therapist, it would be almost impossible to change Cindy or Casey. The one person who is possibly savable in this is George, because his emotions are right there on the surface. He needs therapy desperately to be worked on.
I`m concerned about Casey being suicidal at some point, being so hated. I don`t -- I think Cindy`s going to be depressed, and she`ll need some support. George is the one who`s, I think, the most vulnerable here emotionally.
And by the way, I think it`s really important to point out that, if Casey does say that she had anything to do with her daughter`s death, then the therapist must say that to the police. If anybody reveals a murder or some kind of aggression in that way towards someone else, a threat against somebody alive, the professional must report it. That has to be said here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But she can`t be tried again, Levi Page, so they can report it, but well, it could result in her never being able to have children. I mean, there could be other repercussions. She would not be able to adopt. There could be other ways that they could monitor her if she revealed that.
PAGE: That`s a good point. And remember, Jane, Child Protective Services issued a statement saying that Casey`s negligence at least caused the death of her child, Caylee Anthony. So, I think that it`s horrific.
And I also think that it`s horrific that Cindy Anthony thinks that Casey Anthony needs to have another child. Why? Why would she need to have another child? Even Cindy Anthony thinks that Casey was negligent, so why is she enabling Casey Anthony? Why is she lying for her? Why is she making excuses for her? A lot of people say she`s in denial. I don`t. When I see her smirk on "Dr. Phil," I think she`s a very manipulative person, just like Casey Anthony. Just like her daughter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, OK, you`ve said your piece. And as always, we invite Cindy, George, their attorney, anybody connected to this case. We want to be fair.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We received a call from Miss Lowe`s father and he reported to us that he had discovered a deceased child in his daughter`s bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It happened here at her parents` home Monday night moments after giving birth to the twin boys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was very sad at the last point I saw her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 25-year-old suspect, accused of killing her newborn twin sons is now here at the Sumner County Jail awaiting a bond hearing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot about this situation that I don`t have the answers for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It doesn`t get sadder than this. Cops say a mother confessed to smothering her newborn twins, moments after they were born then hiding their bodies in a laundry basket at her parents` home. It`s difficult to even say those words. This was a difficult story to research. It`s hard to read the allegations. How could she?
Cops say 25-year-old Lindsey Lowe -- there you are, you`re looking at her picture -- carried her twins to full term, but didn`t tell anyone, not even her own parents. They say Lindsey went into labor at home Monday night -- at her parents` home no less -- and gave birth sitting on the toilet; and then cops say she did the unthinkable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officers say Lowe confessed that she knowingly and intentionally killed each of her children using her bare hand to stop their breathing until they were dead in order to prevent her parents from discovering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How does this happen? This woman is a college graduate. She`s got a huge network of friends. She had a full time job at a pediatric dentist`s office. Well, first of all, I immediately wondered how did she manage to hide her pregnancy for nine months? She was at her parents` house when all this went down. Twins, no less.
In fact, she was reportedly a bridesmaid at a friend`s wedding last weekend just a day or two before she gave birth. That`s a photo of her at the party.
Let`s not forget. She is 25 years old. She`s not a teenager. Shouldn`t she know better? She could have brought these babies to a fire station and left them there and walked away free and clear. Remember, she worked at a pediatric dentist`s office. She should know that.
Lindsey Lowe is certainly not the first mother to do this nor will she be the last, as sad as it is unfortunately, but we can hope she`ll be the last.
In an ISSUES exclusive we are joined by the assistant district attorney on this case, Ron Blanton; and in another ISSUES exclusive, we are also joined by Lindsey Lowe`s attorney, John Pellegrin.
Mr. Pellegrin, thank you for coming on. I know it`s difficult to come on because people are very upset about this case. Is there anything you can say to explain your client`s alleged behavior?
JOHN PELLEGRIN, ATTORNEY FOR LINDSEY LOWE: This is a case we`ve just gotten into. I have met with Miss Lowe twice at the jail. She is extremely distraught. She`s been under suicide watch. Medical personnel at the jail have been administering sedatives to her. This is an inexplicable sort of situation and extremely sad for everyone involved.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thinking about this case, I have to wonder if perhaps she might have been suffering from some kind of post-partum psychosis. That was frankly the defense in the Andrea Yates case. We remember that famous case when she killed her five children; she drowned them in the bath tub. You can suffer from post-partum psychosis or post-partum depression immediately after birth.
Mr. Pellegrin, do you think that your client, this woman -- not that woman, that`s Andrea Yates -- but the woman that you`re representing, Lindsey Lowe, was suffering from some kind of temporary insanity? Are you going to plead the insanity defense?
PELLEGRIN: I mean before you can even plead an insanity defense, you have to develop your proof. You have to have the client evaluated by competent people in one of a variety of professions. In this case it was - -
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did she say to you why? Did she say she`s crying, she`s upset, she`s on suicide watch. Did she offer you any explanation? She`s admitted it apparently. According to cops, she`s confessed.
PELLEGRIN: I have not seen the confession. I`ve not seen any statement she`s made to the detectives. And I`ve not engaged any lengthy conversations about the underlying facts at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s listen to what police had to say about what this woman allegedly did with the babies after they were born. This is difficult to watch, but we have to bear witness to this story and hopefully try to learn from it to prevent it from ever happening again.
Affiliate WKRN -- listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the affidavit, police said Lowe confessed that she placed them, the dead babies, in a laundry basket in her room and covered them with blankets to prevent their discovery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to go to Ron Blanton, assistant district attorney for Sumner County -- again, an exclusive interview. Sir, she had to have known that the babies would be found, she didn`t apparently -- explain to us. Did she go to any great lengths to hide these children? Where were they found?
RON BLANTON, ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY, SUMNER COUNTY: The infants were found in a laundry basket that was setting next to her bed as the affidavit sets out. They were covered with a towel and they were left there beside her bed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, really no effort to hide the evidence, the bodies. She did not attempt to bury the bodies. She did not attempt to leave the house. She`s at her parents` house and she just leaves them there?
BLANTON: That`s correct. That`s where the babies were located. As the affidavit sets forth, they got a call Wednesday morning from Miss Lowe`s father saying that he had discovered an infant who was deceased in the clothes basket upstairs in his daughter`s bedroom. That`s when officers responded to the scene.
As the affidavit sets forth that upon arriving, they subsequently learned that there was a second child, a twin that was born, and it was also in the same basket sitting that was sitting beside of her bed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. My big question -- go ahead.
BLANTON: Horrible tragedy. Horrible tragedy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s incomprehensible. Honestly, I had a hard time reading the details. It just made me -- these little babies are just born and to be killed allegedly at the hand of their own mother because they were crying, as they were crying.
BLANTON: It`s a sad state -- a horrific circumstance.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Have you ever seen anything like this Mr. Blanton?
BLANTON: Not in my years in the prosecution office or at any time have I ever seen anything like this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s got to shake you up to get even more involved than we as journalists. I mean you`ve got to know these details. It`s got to just really affect you, I assume.
BLANTON: It wears on you. I had a hard time sleeping last night. It`s a -- it can wear on you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How did people not know this woman was nine months pregnant? I mean it obviously does happen because there`s an actual TLC show called "I Didn`t Know I was Pregnant". Here`s a clip from YouTube. This is astounding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t know what was going on. I just started screaming. Then they said you`re having a second baby. It`s a twin. It`s a girl. This cannot be happening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did I not know that this was going on in my body?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy, Casey Anthony`s parents also said they didn`t know she was pregnant although there was a photo that showed her very, very pregnant. How does this happen?
DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It happens, Jane, and as you saw in the clip of that show, that sometimes the woman doesn`t even show. And that is an -- they don`t create the baby bump, so that`s one part of it.
And secondly, I think this young girl, 25 years old, was so confused about her body and disgusted in a sense. She gave birth in the toilet. Those were like kids treated who were like excrement. She wanted to obliterate them, and then they were put in the laundry basket, which is like they were dirt. And so, her reality was not really clear like we`re thinking. So, she`s going to need a lot of therapy, I think.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she`s going to be prosecuted. She`s going to be prosecuted and she is going to face justice on this case and we have so many other questions about who`s the father of these children.
I just -- we`ll come back to the story and I hope that the prosecutor and the defense attorney will join us again. We`re not letting this one go. Thank you both for joining us for this very difficult story.
From a ranting lunatic to a level-headed guy, we are switching gears big time here and talking about Charlie Sheen and you will not believe what a changed man he is. It`s astounding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: They`ve run the gamut from like ok, he`s not loaded. Now what? Oh, he`s manic. I don`t even know what that means. I guess it would imply that there`s going to be a crash.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Katherine Freund witnessed the unthinkable.
KATHERINE FREUND, SON RUN OVER AT 3: My son at the age of 3, was run over by an 84-year-old driver. And he went into a coma. And then on the third day, he came back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her son Ryan is now in his mid-20s. He`s fully recovered from the accident and graduated college. The driver that hit him had dementia.
FREUND: I mean he was a victim in many ways just as my son was a victim. So it seemed to me that the real way to solve the problem was to create a transportation service for older people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In 1995, Freund started the Independent Transportation Network, also known as ITN America. Today, the non-profit provides low cost rides for thousands of seniors in 15 states.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll be here to pick you up sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok then.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ITN is available 24-7 and relies heavily on volunteer drivers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just look after the customers as if they were a member of their own family.
FREUND: In spite of the flagging economy and in spite of the ageing of the population, people can come together and help each other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Charlie Sheen, a new man -- that in a moment. First "Top of the Block" tonight, a key witness for prosecutors in the trial of Michael Jackson`s former doctor has vanished. He`s disappeared. He`s missing.
Prosecutors say this witness is the owner of a wholesale pharmacy and he had testified that he shipped large amounts of the surgical anesthetic Propofol to Dr. Conrad Murray in the weeks before Michael Jackson died. Well now, he has left the country. And the prosecution cannot find him so they can`t call him to the stand. He`s missing.
Prosecution wants to use his statements in the manslaughter trial, but first, they`ve got to prove they`ve done everything to reach this guy. A hearing is scheduled for Monday on this. We`ll bring you all the latest. And of course, we are covering Michael Jackson`s manslaughter trial live from Los Angeles starting next week. We`re all over that case. So watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charlie Sheen is looking back on his wild year.
SHEEN: One thing I`ve learned is just don`t take everything so personally. I guess I`ve got to give myself a little -- you know, not be so hard on myself. I mean I`m an actor and I`m 45.
A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": He`s trying to prove that, you know, he`s not as crazy as everyone thinks or thought he was. He says he went through a crazy phase.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Charlie Sheen is back and while the nation is watching him get roasted on Monday night, the new "Two and a Half Men" show debuts with Ashton Kutcher in the lead taking over for Charlie. The former A-lister says he`s now sober and he`s now embarrassed about all his shenanigans. But is he really a changed man?
Just a few months ago, the self-proclaimed "winner" -- such crazy antics; we all know the media frenzy it stirred up. We all remember this from NBC`s "Today", do we not?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of your fans have been worried about you, worried about your health --
SHEEN: They can worry all they want --
(CROSSTALK)
SHEEN: Come on, I`m fine. I`ve always had a plan and I`ve always executed them perfectly. Sometimes I overshoot the mark or whatever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you avoid slipping back into that again?
SHEEN: I don`t know. I just won`t do it. I do not believe that if I do something then I have to follow a certain path because it was written for normal people, people that aren`t special. People that don`t have tiger blood and, you know, Adonis DNA.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Look how sweaty he looks there. You`re going to see that he has changed. He looks better now.
Let`s face it. Charlie was spiraling out of control. The alleged hotel room fight with porn stars, losing his job on the hit show, "Two and a Half Men", and of course, the bevy of goddesses that came and went.
Charlie says it`s all history. He says he would have even fired himself. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, TALK SHOW HOST: Are you still angry towards the producers and CBS?
SHEEN: No, I would have fired my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) too. Well, maybe not like they did.
LENO: Yes.
SHEEN: I mean it is what it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jawn Murray, entertainment journalist, has this self-proclaimed warlock turned a new leaf or is this groveling just some kind of an act?
JAWN MURRAY, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Well Jane, if it`s an act, he`s given the best acting job of his performance. I saw both of those appearances on Jay Leno and the one on the "Today" show. I have to say he`s quite convincing.
He seems like he`s returned to normalcy because many times on this show, Jane, I told you I thought he had become a bona fide whackadoo (ph). I mean talk about really rail-roading your career, falling off the hinges and really just unraveling in public. So he seems like he`s returned back to normal and he`s is not done with the "I`m back to normal" tour yet. He`s on the Wendy Williams show on Monday as well right before the roast.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I was happy. I was like wow. As a recovering alcoholic myself with 16 years of sobriety, I was like yes, this guy finally got sober.
But listen to what he has to say because anybody who`s sober, they know exactly how long they`ve been sober. Here`s a clip from NBC`s "Today" show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT LAUER, NBC HOST, "TODAY": Are you sober?
SHEEN: Yes, absolutely.
LAUER: When is the last time you had a drink or something more?
SHEEN: I don`t really keep track of the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Uh-oh. Howard Samuels, founder of The Hills Treatment Center. He doesn`t keep track of his sobriety time. What does that tell you?
HOWARD SAMUELS, FOUNDER, THE HILLS TREATMENT CENTER: That he`s not really taking his sobriety seriously, you know. First of all, what a positive change and you`ve got to be happy about that. I mean humble, gracious, honest. So, there`s definitely been a shift here from that delusional state that he was on and in as a result of crack cocaine because I really believe he was in a cocaine psychosis that created the psychic break because of the cocaine he was smoking.
So obviously he`s definitely turned a corner I think in a very positive way, especially for him and most importantly, for his children. But it`s not going to last unless he stayed 100 percent sober.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If he doesn`t work his program and he should know how long he`s been sober.
SAMUELS: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s step -- you know, that`s priority number one.
SAMUELS: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ashton debuting on "Two and a Half Men" and Charlie Sheen at the very same time or same night anyway, roasted on Comedy Central.
Here`s a little preview of the roast from Comedy Central. Oh, my gosh.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFREY ROSS, COMEDY CENTRAL: You`re the black sheep of a family responsible for three "Mighty Ducks" movies. You make your own father ashamed that he shares the same fake name as you. Martin Sheen and Emilio Estevez said they would have been here tonight but they had a family obligation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I`m glad he`s laughing at himself. And I really do wish him the very best in his apparent new-found sobriety. Charlie, figure out how long you`ve been sober and work it.
All right.
Up next, super model Joanna Krupa.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s finished. We don`t succeed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he gone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was too late.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It was too late.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Help came too late for that beautiful innocent creature. There are more than 1,000 other animals still languishing at the Tripoli Zoo in war-torn Libya that desperately need our help. As we`ve been reporting the zoo has literally been caught in the crossfire during Libya`s uprising.
Most of the staff simply fled fearing for their lives. Power knocked- out, no water. These helpless animals abandoned in their cages and pens, unable to fend for themselves. Look at it, no water.
Now the group International Fund for Animal Welfare is diving into this problem. The animals are finally starting to get the basics they need to survive.
My very special guest tonight, international super model and fierce animal activist, Joanna Krupa; here she is on "Poland`s Next Top Model".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOANNA KRUBA, MODEL AND ANIMAL ACTIVIST: Hi, I`m Joanna Krupa and welcome to Season Two of "Poland`s Next Top Model", (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joanna, I`m so thrilled to have you back here on ISSUES.
In my opinion, this is the ultimate example of why zoos are wrong. When there`s trouble, people leave them and they are left to die completely helpless, not even water. Your thoughts.
KRUPA: I mean this is obviously horrifying and thank you for CNN that has done such extensive coverage over this. And it`s so sad that in a time of crisis the media is so concerned over political issues and human suffering and they forget about the animals. And it`s really sad that in this kind of a crisis now we see what`s going on in zoos, the horrible neglect and suffering these animals go through.
And thank God for, you know, groups, rescue groups that come and try to save these animals but for a lot of them like we saw with the tiger it`s just too late. And I think overall not even this zoo but just zoos in the whole world I think is just a prison. Some of them have, you know, a better prison because they are more financed but overall I think it`s prisons.
These animals are wild animals and there`s a reason why they are called wild animals because they seek wilderness. And it`s just heartbreaking what we human beings will do for money.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what`s really horrifying is that there`s already talk -- I read reports, oh we`re going to restock this zoo. We`re going to bring more animals in to the zoo since these are starving to death and have been left without water.
And that`s the mentality, treating them like they are items on a store shelf that can be re-stocked and that`s what gets me so angry, Joanna.
KRUPA: And, Jane, I`m with you here. It just makes me so angry as well because animals were created by God just like we human beings were. And they feel. They have trauma. They have stress like we human beings do. We cannot treat them like they are just a piece of item or an accessory we put in our purse or we go to the zoo.
Our children -- if children were educated how these animals are treated in zoos I bet you 99 percent of kids would refuse to go to the zoos knowing the torture, the strife, the trauma these animals go through.
They`re supposed to be in the wild. Elephants walk for miles every day at a time. This is so torturous what we human beings do to these animals. It`s a disgrace.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to tell you that on the other side we`re going to talk about what`s happening in zoos in the United States. It`s not just in Libya.
All right. And up next we`re going to talk about something a lot happier, Nancy Grace on "Dancing with the Stars".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve been talking about the plight of animals in zoos. It`s not just in war torn Libya. This is Billy the elephant who has been the subject of a huge battle. He`s at the L.A. Zoo, and for years a whole group of celebrities have been trying to get him to a sanctuary. The head-bobbing they say is a sign of neurosis and anxiety. Think about those animals and do what you can to help.
All right. Switching gears now to a happier subject at the top of the hour, animal activist and super model and all around fabulous Joanna Krupa joins Nancy Grace to give her advice on "Dancing with the Stars".
Nancy hits the dance floor starting Monday. Here`s exclusive photo and video of her and partner Tristan McManus right there on the set of Nancy`s HLN show. We`re going to have so much of Nancy behind-the-scenes. Get ready. And she`s got the moves.
All right. You`ve got to vote for Nancy and you`ve got to watch Nancy. It`s all coming up on Monday and we`re there rooting for Nancy Grace who is up next.
END
