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Jermaine Jackson Talks About Michael`s Death; Interview with Rachael Ray

Aired September 19, 2011 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Michael Jackson`s brother, Jermaine is here to talk about Michael`s death and the upcoming Conrad Murray trial. And Joy wants him to explain his claim that he had an escape plan for Michael if he`d been convicted of child molestation back in 2005.

And Joy has the big story lines from last night Emmys including Alec Baldwin`s bailout and Charlie Sheen`s reconciliation.

Plus Rachael Ray weighs in on some celebrity chef feuds and the fight to stop childhood obesity.

That and more starting right now.

JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Michael Jackson was known by almost everyone in the world but one person who really knew him the best and the longest was his older brother, Jermaine. In his new book, "You Are Not Alone: Through a brother`s eyes", Jermaine Jackson gives an inside look into Michael`s life, death and all the controversy surrounding him.

So welcome to the show Jermaine.

JERMAINE JACKSON, BROTHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Thank you.

BEHAR: We saw each other earlier today. I feel like I know you now.

You know, the Conrad Murray trial is going to start very soon. Do you think we`ll find out what happened to Michael in that trial?

JACKSON: I really don`t know. That`s why it was important to write the book because I wanted to sort of give the facts and explain how things happened.

BEHAR: Well, reportedly, the doctor gave Michael this drug Propofol, which caused his death. So ipso facto, that would make him culpable. Is he?

JACKSON: Is he meaning what?

BEHAR: He gave it to him. So does that make him guilty?

JACKSON: That makes the doctor -- he was the one that administered it to him outside of the hospital setting, which was wrong, because you need the proper people. He took an oath to take care of his client, not to kill him.

BEHAR: Yes.

JACKSON: At the same time, you have to be licensed to inject Propofol into anyone. You have to be an anesthesiologist. He`s a cardiologist, he knew not what he was doing.

BEHAR: Right. Propofol is the drug that they give people who are going under in a hospital setting. And you know, somebody told me in another interview I did that when you take Propofol, you do not even dream, that`s how deep in a sleep you become. Why do you think Michael had to be so deep in a sleep?

JACKSON: Michael had problems sleeping because of coming offstage and all the excitement. And whether or not he asked for it, the fact that it should have been in a proper setting, should have been administered with the proper person. And it wasn`t. He had a job to keep Michael -- keep Michael healthy, keep him alive.

BEHAR: Yes. But he was taking this Propofol quite regularly.

JACKSON: I really don`t know. Even if he was, the --

BEHAR: The doctor should have known better.

JACKSON: Yes. He should have known better because you have to -- you have to have the right medical equipment to administer this stuff. It wasn`t in a hospital setting. We don`t know how much he was giving him. That`s why we`re hoping we get answers from the trial.

BEHAR: Did you know he was doing this Propofol? Did the family know?

JACKSON: We knew he had problems with sleeping. We knew there was a thing that he was taking Demerol for pain. But none of this had --

BEHAR: What was the pain from?

JACKSON: The pain was from the Pepsi burn and the pain was also for when he --

BEHAR: Pepsi burn -- when he did the commercial?

JACKSON: Yes. Also when he performed in Munich and he fell. He fell on his back because the hydraulics gave way. But the symptoms I write about in the book, the symptoms we never heard he`s never experienced before in his entire life of being on stage. That adds up to what were they doing? How much were they giving him? And it was in an improper setting.

BEHAR: But there was no intervention by the family or anybody else. Did they not know about it? Were they afraid to do something?

JACKSON: The family? There was supposed to have been an intervention in 2001, but there wasn`t because there was not one. But when you have these symptoms that we`ve never heard or he has never experienced before, that`s what brings questions to our minds as to what was the doctor doing? What was his intentions? We would never know if he acted alone because a lot of the surveillance tapes were erased from the house.

BEHAR: That`s funny. A lot of people, they think they can tell the doctor. I know somebody years ago, a friend of the family and she -- her appendix was rupturing, she wouldn`t go to the hospital and the doctor said, well, she doesn`t want to go, and she died.

JACKSON: Wow.

BEHAR: You know, I mean a lot of times the patient and the doctor are in some kind of co-dependency. Do you think that might have had something to do with this?

JACKSON: No, no, no, no. The doctor has given an oath, all doctors do. Their oath is to do their job, according to their law, the medical laws. And Dr. Murray`s job was to keep Michael healthy, to keep him alive. And the fact that he went from being healthy beyond mid-June for this tour and then all of a sudden these things happened, the symptoms.

BEHAR: So you blame the doctor?

JACKSON: I blame the doctor because of his negligence. I blame the doctor because of just irresponsible -- the sad whole situation.

BEHAR: You also write in the book that there was a conspiracy to -- that Michael thought there was a conspiracy to finish him off, to kill him, basically. He wore bullet proof vests. Do you believe that?

JACKSON: Yes, he wore a bullet proof vest here in New York. He was always threatened. We were threatened quite a bit on the "Victory Tour" when we were going to the concerts.

BEHAR: Who threatened him?

JACKSON: There were people -- there were just series of random threats from sick people.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Well, that happens to a lot of celebrities, I think. It`s not really serious, people say things.

JACKSON: Yes. But you take all threats seriously because you never know. See Michael was such a great star, there was like so much coming at him, and he didn`t trust. Later, he did not trust.

BEHAR: Yes. Who do you think wanted to kill him specifically? I mean do you believe that this Propofol death was deliberate or premeditated in some way or an accident?

JACKSON: If you`re a doctor, I can`t say whether it was an accident because he should have known, whether he should have been putting this in him or not even if Michael asked for it.

BEHAR: I know that part. But I`m saying -- you don`t think it`s deliberate, do you?

JACKSON: What I put in the book, read the book. And what I did is even before the Propofol, I gave you all the events and all the things that took place even from when he put out "Thriller" and was a major success and all of a sudden he`d become all these crazy names and all this stuff, all the way to the point of his death.

I want them to read it to examine for themselves what happened to Michael Jackson. And they need to know especially on Chapter 17 all these false allegations from day one. Michael says in there, to walk in my shoes, to walk in his moccasins, then you can judge him as to who he really was.

BEHAR: Yes. Well, we`ll get to all of that. I want to get to everything in this interview. But I`m still working on this part about, you know, what happened to him.

Your sister, Latoya told me on this show, like call warned her, he said, "I`m going to be murdered for my music publishing." She also said this.

Let`s watch the tape of Latoya.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LATOYA JACKSON, SISTER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: I think it was a conspiracy, because the way my brother laid it out to me, everything happened exactly the way he said it would happen. I think that there are very many people involved. This was premeditated. It was pre-planned. I think Dr. Murray just happened to be the fall guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: She says it was premeditated. Do you think it was premeditated?

JACKSON: I don`t know.

BEHAR: She seems to.

JACKSON: That`s why the trial is so important because there again, I wanted to not yell this or not yell -- we are family members but still we have our own opinion as to what happened.

BEHAR: Right. So you don`t agree with her?

JACKSON: I`m not saying I don`t agree with her. The bottom line is I do agree to the fact that he is not here and it was by the hands of the doctor as well as whoever else was coming in the house that we will never know because the tapes were erased. I`m saying the doctors should have known better. Should have known better.

BEHAR: Yes. Before his death, Michael was rehearsing for a series of 50 concerts. How was his health during that time?

JACKSON: Michael`s health was incredible. He was in shape.

BEHAR: So he was in good shape to do 50 concerts?

JACKSON: He was in very good shape. It started out with 10. He was in very good health. He was dancing four hours a day with Lovell Smith. He was cut, he was ripped, he excited about just all the creative aspects of the show and what he wanted to do when he got there to make changes. Not only that, he was looking forward to doing that and going beyond that by putting a down payment on a home that he wanted in Vegas and he had plans. He had plans to move on beyond "This Is It".

BEHAR: I wonder if there`s any side effects to Propofol. I mean the next day, you don`t have a hangover; you don`t feel -- I mean --

JACKSON: But see, even if he had had Propofol in the past, it had to be with the right anesthesiologist who was licensed and there were never these type of symptoms that --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Well, apparently he did not know better to ask for an anesthesiologist either.

JACKSON: No.

BEHAR: Michael didn`t.

JACKSON: It`s --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

JACKSON: -- to administer Propofol, you have to have one.

BEHAR: Right. Well, we reached out to the AEG people, the promoters but they did not return our calls because we were going to ask them about, you know, maybe pushing him too hard.

JACKSON: Yes.

BEHAR: But you say no.

JACKSON: Well, pushing him, they were pushing him. They were -- I state in the book, there was one time he didn`t show up for one of the rehearsals at a certain time and they -- from our eyes and ears that were at the rehearsals, they tore into him, they went to his house and they read him the riot act. And it was very tough, it was very tough for him.

BEHAR: Ok and we`re going to take a break and we`ll have much more with Jermaine Jackson all the way. So stay right there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up later, Joy dishes the dirt with celebrity chef, Rachael Ray.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: And we`re back talking to Jermaine Jackson about the turbulent life and death of his brother, Michael, which was revealed -- which is revealed in -- in Jermaine`s new book, "You are not Alone." Ok.

There`s a lot of family love in the book, right? You had -- you were a loving family in many ways. What kind of boy was Michael as he -- when he was a child?

JACKSON: Michael was a lot of fun. What I put in the book was pretty much the brotherhood, and the love we had for one another when we were growing up. And so many wonderful moments -- wonderful meaning funny times of us just acting like the three stooges and having fun. Food fights on tour.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Food fights.

JACKSON: The Jackson 5 days, of just putting pranks and -- and because at the end of the day, this is to show the human side as well as to address all the things that has -- that has happened. That there`s a beautiful story here because Michael comes from a family we were raised to respect people, to respect one another, to have love for life and love for God`s creations. And he never lost that all through his life.

BEHAR: Yes. Your -- your father, you father Joe, admitted to Oprah that he did whip you kids.

JACKSON: Yes.

BEHAR: And you write that Michael would have to pick the branch that Joe would whip him with and he -- and he beat -- he beat up Marlon and Michael the most. Would you say that`s a sadistic behavior?

JACKSON: No. No. He didn`t beat them -- this is -- this is amazing because --back in the day, we were raised a little different from anyone else. We -- we -- we got spankings for things that we were told not to do. We were kids but it -- it wasn`t beatings, it wasn`t abuse and we were raised like any other kids on the block.

BEHAR: So then -- so then why did you write that Michael would have to pick the branch that Joe would whip him with?

JACKSON: We all had to pick a branch which was just a little thing like this and you would just get --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: That hurts.

JACKSON: Yes.

BEHAR: That hurts, that leaves marks.

JACKSON: But -- but about -- no, no. There were no whips, there were no marks, nothing. The bottom line, is there was so much going on around us, growing up, in a neighborhood that was just infested with gangs and drugs.

BEHAR: Where was this?

JACKSON: In Gary, Indiana.

BEHAR: Gary, Indiana.

JACKSON: And having to duck because -- and turn the lights out and hit the floor because they are shooting and they are fighting right around you. My father did not want us to get involved with that. At the same time, all our friends are either on drugs or dead or -- or just tragic endings.

So he was very careful not to let us get involved in those types of things that were all around us all the time.

BEHAR: I understand that.

JACKSON: But there was nothing about abuse, Michael being younger, he was frightened because anybody young who`s going to get a spanking, they run --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: How old was he when he got spanked?

JACKSON: We were -- we were all like -- he was -- I`m four years older, so if I was 10, he was 6, and it`s just that that`s the way the families were raised in the neighborhood.

BEHAR: Yes.

Well, you know, I understand, you know, why your father and your mother would want you to stay out of gangs and all of those of drugs and other bad behaviors but that`s -- I mean -- so -- so you discipline your children so harshly to keep them away --

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: No, it wasn`t harshly, it wasn`t harshly.

BEHAR: It wasn`t?

JACKSON: No it was not harshly.

BEHAR: All right. Ok. If you say so, it sounded to me like it because I`m totally against spanking.

JACKSON: But I think I was -- yes. But -- but you got to realize the things they call Columbine, kids come to school and he just shoots up his friends and the whole school.

BEHAR: Right.

JACKSON: That comes from nobody not caring for them, disciplining them at the right time, knowing their whereabouts and what`s going on.

BEHAR: Well, I guess.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: No, really. Really.

BEHAR: But that -- Jermaine, there are other ways to discipline children besides corporal punishment, that`s all I`m saying?

JACKSON: No, no it wasn`t that type of punishment. My father didn`t do anything else. He raised the family during a time there was so much going on to come between family. He brought us from Indiana to California drug-free and without getting involved with gangs and we were all loving each other.

BEHAR: Well, ok maybe it didn`t affect you as much but it might have affected Michael --

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: No --

BEHAR: -- because when he asked you if you would cry if your father died and he said that he didn`t think he would. Why not?

JACKSON: Because he was the youngest. He didn`t understand, but he wouldn`t say that today, when they were giving him trouble at the final rehearsals. He -- when he was trying to get people to listen to him at these last days of his rehearsals, he said I bet you if my father come down here you all would listen to me. He loved his father, he respected his father. And he respected his father.

People gave my father a bad rap because he did not kiss butt. When you were wrong, you were wrong. And he did not walk into Hollywood and smile on your face and talk about you behind your back. If he liked you, he liked you, if he didn`t like you, he didn`t like you.

BEHAR: Ok. Back with Jermaine Jackson after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: We`re back with Jermaine Jackson. You know, Jermaine, there`s all this conversation that we`ve had over the years about Michael sharing his bed with children, ok. What?

JACKSON: Go ahead.

BEHAR: Why did he do that?

JACKSON: Talking about the first case, Michael took care of the family. It was the mother, the kid, the sister, they all have gifts.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Maybe that`s why -- that`s maybe why they didn`t complain.

JACKSON: No. But no one ever said that Michael was seducing the mother. The mother was there all the time with the kids.

BEHAR: Well, maybe he wasn`t interested in the mother.

JACKSON: No. You can`t say that. Have you ever called my brother a pedophile before?

BEHAR: No.

JACKSON: You haven`t?

BEHAR: No. I don`t know. I wasn`t there.

JACKSON: Listen, that first case, the system knew, the media knew -- they knew the extortion attempt the father wanted to do.

BEHAR: Why would he do it? It bothers me that he would think it was ok for people to look at that and say, ok, he`s a 40-year-old guy with little kids --

JACKSON: Because -- because I`ll explained to you why. Michael grew up -- we grew up in a room with bunk beds and all the brothers. Psychologically that never left him, the children together.

BEHAR: I know but you grew up that way, too, and you didn`t do that.

JACKSON: No. I`m still around kids all the time.

BEHAR: You have them in your bedroom?

JACKSON: Absolutely. There`s nothing wrong with that. If I`m responsible for kids and their parents leave them with me, what`s wrong with it? Because that`s never going to cross my mind of doing anything like that. You see, the world today is so demented and so sick that they look at these things the wrong way.

My brother never touched anyone and they knew this and the media knew this too. But they figure, oh, let`s say Michael did this. Why? Because it`s going to create ratings. It`s going to create newspapers. They knew the difference. They knew the truth.

In the book, I speak about all of this. Because when you talk about him, you`re talking about all of us.

BEHAR: Yes.

JACKSON: We`re family, we`re the Jacksons. He`s carrying my name, I`m carrying his.

BEHAR: Well, just -- I think it just has that appearance, you know. And after the molestation charges, he continued to do it. Why do it?

JACKSON: Because he did nothing wrong. He has a wonderful love for children. What you have to realize is --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: And didn`t you want to have -- yes.

BEHAR: -- Michael is a kid himself. You`re looking at Michael through grown-up eyes.

BEHAR: A little bit of an arrested development, would you say?

JACKSON: He`s looking at kids through child`s eyes because he didn`t have a childhood. There was never -- none of that.

BEHAR: And didn`t you want to whisk him away to Bahrain if those charges held up and he went to jail?

JACKSON: No. That`s not true. Because you have to be --

BEHAR: Well, tell me what it was. Straighten me out.

JACKSON: You have to -- why do they do this?

BEHAR: It`s in the book.

JACKSON: For me to be here, you can rest assured I have researched and made sure everything in this book is true.

BEHAR: Ok. So it`s not true that you were going to escape with him, take him out of the country?

JACKSON: Let me tell you. Let me explain to you.

BEHAR: Go ahead.

JACKSON: Watching my brother being handcuffed for no reason, nine counts of what? What? At the same time, child services, even before these counts, cleared him, investigated him, there`s nothing that he did.

And he knew this, too. At the same time, all this is going on, I`m watching this --

BEHAR: You were worried.

JACKSON: Worried?

BEHAR: You were worried maybe he would not get off -- the charges would not be dropped.

JACKSON: He would not get a fair trial. After hearing the judge say when he had fallen, he went to the hospital and came back, the judge said, if he`s not back in 45 minutes, we`re sending him to jail. This is what they wanted to do.

BEHAR: All right, Jermaine. Thank you very much for this. Ok.

His book is called "You Are Not Alone."

We`ll be right back.

Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: It was the Emmy Awards, and all anybody`s talking about other than Alec Baldwin telling the network to go fox itself was Charlie Sheen`s appearance. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: I want to take a moment to get something off my chest and say a few words to everybody here from "Two and a Half Men." From the bottom of my heart, I wish you nothing but the best for this upcoming season. We spent eight wonderful years together. And I know you will continue to make great television.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: If you say so. Here to discuss this and other pop culture stories in the news are George Wallace, the comedian known as the New Mr. Las Vegas. We`ll find out who the old Mr. Las Vegas was later.

GEORGE WALLACE, COMEDIAN: OK.

BEHAR: Kendra Wilkinson, author of "Being Kendra," and A.J. Hammer, host of HLN`s "Showbiz Tonight." Welcome, guys.

Who`s the old Mr. Las Vegas?

WALLACE: Wayne Newton is Mr. Las Vegas. I`m the New Mr. Vegas, so there is a big difference between a young man and an older man.

BEHAR: Oh, I see. Are you older than him or younger than him?

WALLACE: Oh, Joy, no, you didn`t. No, you didn`t go there. No, you didn`t go there.

BEHAR: No, you didn`t!

WALLACE: You and I are about the same age.

BEHAR: We are not, George.

WALLACE: Well, OK. Then you`re older than I am, then. That`s good. But I love you.

BEHAR: This business of black don`t crack is going a little too far.

WALLACE: Black don`t crack, look at it. Now, did you see that guy, Charlie Sheen, standing there? Any time, Joy, any time somebody says, from the bottom of my heart --

BEHAR: What`s that tell?

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: That`s all you need, that`s all you need to know, from the bottom of my heart, it`s just like screw you.

A.J. HAMMER, HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Like touching your face when you`re saying -- so you know they`re lying.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Body language.

HAMMER: Well, he said eight years, he said we had eight good years together. I have a feeling the cast and the crew of "Two and a Half Men" were sitting there saying, it wasn`t all good. It smacked of desperation to me. It absolutely smacked of desperation.

WALLACE: He was there for a second, when he stood out, when he walked out there, he says after eight years we`ve been together, I have something to say from the bottom of my heart. Then he paused and then he was looking at that big statute of the Emmy. He was just thinking, oh, that would make a nice water pipe, wouldn`t it? So -- and I`m the only one -- you want to talk to her, because I talk too much.

BEHAR: That`s all right.

WALLACE: Because I know him, I defended Charlie there for a second (ph), but I think any time you`re making $2 million a week, you should be able to do whatever the hell you want to. I think what`s great about (inaudible), what the hell are you doing paying $3,000 a night for a room, can`t you get naked and call up a ho? That`s what the place was named after, that`s where they got the name from, ho-tel. That`s where it came from. I`m not making this up. You look in the history, you look in the books.

BEHAR: Kendra, Kendra, he`s getting roasted. Do you think he`s trying to repair his image by showing he has a sense of humor about himself?

KENDRA WILKINSON, AUTHOR: If he is, that`s not a good idea. I think that was really boring to watch.

BEHAR: That was boring to watch?

WILKINSON: I mean, I like good TV. And, Charlie -- no, I don`t think that was --

BEHAR: I thought he was going to be funny after that. I think he meant to be but it wasn`t. He died like a dog out there.

WALLACE: You know, when you sin, you have to go fall on your knees and repent. That`s what most people do, when they get in trouble. Like people go to jail, who do they find? They find Jesus. Most people go to jail and find Jesus. I tell people that all the time, you can waste your time going to church if you want to. Jesus is in jail.

HAMMER: I heard you making the point -- I heard you make a point earlier today that, you know, it sounded like one of the 12 steps.

BEHAR: Yes.

HAMMER: He`s getting up there and making amends.

BEHAR: Making amends.

OK, now, Alec Baldwin, let`s talk about him, because he didn`t show up, and he killed his taped piece that he had. And so Mr. Spock did the taped piece, what`s his name--

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Leonard Nimoy, he`s the greatest. And he cut -- because Fox cut the joke. And this is what he said -- yes, because of Rupert Murdoch. He said, "Fox did kill my News Corp hacking joke, which sucks because I think it would have made them look better a little." Would it have made them look better? The joke was going to be about Rupert Murdoch, which you know the problems, right, everybody knows this.

WALLACE: Yes.

BEHAR: So would it have made Rupert look better or worse if he had done a joke about Rupert? I guess that`s the bottom line.

WALLACE: I think you should make a joke about everything, don`t you? Joke about everything?

HAMMER: You do have to joke about everything, but there was no way that Fox would allow something that would bring any extra attention to that. And by the way, Alec has made it clear in case people think that he didn`t show up because the joke was cut. He didn`t show up because he was invited to host this Tony Bennett party last night. And that`s why he didn`t show up, at least that`s the line that--

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: I heard it was on tape. Last night it was live at the Tony Bennett.

WALLACE: That`s OK, he has to say that. That`s good. That`s good.

BEHAR: He`s got to save face now?

WALLACE: You got to save face.

BEHAR: Why?

WALLACE: Plus, Alec, didn`t he get in trouble a few years ago about something on a machine and messaging somebody`s daughter, something like that, was that him?

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: He should stay away from all phones, all messages, all that stuff like that.

BEHAR: Phones make him nervous. Let`s put it that way.

WALLACE: That`s what I was trying to say.

BEHAR: OK, let`s talk about Brad Pitt. He is eating his words after giving an interview to "Parade" magazine in which he implied that his ex- wife, Jennifer Aniston, was boring. Now, he is attempting to clarify his statement, saying it wasn`t Jen who was dull, it was he. OK. So, Kendra, do you think Brad Pitt is dull?

WILKINSON: He is definitely -- he is definitely taking back probably what he said. And he`s definitely probably feeling guilty. I mean, why not feel guilty after that? That sounds really like not something we would probably be hearing from Brad Pitt.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: What kind of man trashes his ex-wife in that way in public?

WILKINSON: A man with a movie coming out.

BEHAR: Wait a second, he also was cheating on his wife when he--

WALLACE: Yes, yes.

HAMMER: Unconfirmed.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: What`s unconfirmed?

HAMMER: There was no -- they`ve never said, yes, we were fooling around while we were still married.

BEHAR: Oh, come off it, A.J.

HAMMER: I`m saying--

BEHAR: Mr. And Mrs. Smith. They --

(CROSSTALK)

HAMMER: I`m trying to protect you. I work with the legal department here at HLN. I am very concerned about you.

BEHAR: Free speech. I read the tabloids just like everybody else.

WALLACE: Brad probably thinks that first of all he doesn`t like anybody who looks better than he does.

BEHAR: Who looks better than him?

WALLACE: This is true, too. I mean, Jennifer, I mean, she`s beautiful.

BEHAR: She`s a hot number.

WALLACE: But Brad, oh my God, he`s good looking, ain`t he?

BEHAR: You like him?

WALLACE: I mean, he`s good looking, you have priorities. You know what I mean, you know?

BEHAR: Yes. But I think he`s doing this maybe to promote his movie, A.J.?

HAMMER: Here is the thing. He doesn`t do a lot of press, we know that. He spoke a little more candidly than we`re used to hearing him speak. And I think he`s troubled obviously by the way his words were interpreted. He released another statement saying, it wasn`t exactly what I meant. And the implications of his words led people to believe he was trashing Jennifer Aniston. If you really read this interview in "Parade" magazine, he`s not overtly trashing her. He was saying I was boring at that time, maybe it had something to do with my marriage. So I think people are really coming down pretty hard on him.

BEHAR: In other words, the marriage was not working and therefore he was boring?

HAMMER: Perhaps. Look, there`s nothing wrong with him admitting the marriage was not working.

BEHAR: When my marriage wasn`t working, trust me, I was not boring.

WALLACE: You just got married last week. What the hell are you talking about?

BEHAR: I`m talking about the first one.

WALLACE: You`ve been married twice?

BEHAR: This is the second one, yes.

WALLACE: I didn`t know that. Congratulations, by the way, on being married twice.

BEHAR: Thank you. But by the way, I mean, you don`t have to be boring. If the marriage is not working, that doesn`t mean you become boring. It means you become unhappy. Right? You`re married nicely now?

WILKINSON: I`m very happily married. Yes.

WALLACE: Really?

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: I like the way you look. Go ahead and answer that question.

BEHAR: She doesn`t remember the question.

WILKINSON: How am I supposed to remember?

BEHAR: Let`s go. Bravo has fired four cast members of the "Real Housewives of New York." Jill Zarin, Kelly Bensimon, Alex McCord and Cindy Barshop. Is that how you say it?

HAMMER: Barshop.

BEHAR: Barshop, claiming it`s a friendly departure. How friendly is it actually going to be, Kendra, do you think? They`re all fired. Those girls do not just lie down for this type of thing.

WILKINSON: That`s (inaudible), you know, if something doesn`t work out, that`s how quick it ends. And I`m very, very lucky, I`ve been on TV for nine seasons now, very lucky. Every year could be my last. And I`m very just thankful.

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: They should be fired anyways because they`re not real housewives.

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: Real housewives are at home. Real housewives are at home, cleaning house, getting things ready to go. This is real housewives, I`m not talking about -- but real housewives are at Target store arguing with their kids over a backpack. Real -- you know what I`m talking about, real housewives. Now they know how it feels to be a real housewife. They got fired. Now, they can go home.

BEHAR: A.J.?

HAMMER: Cindy is on the show tonight actually coming up a little later.

BEHAR: Cindy Barshop.

HAMMER: Cindy Barshop is going to be on "Showbiz Tonight" and we are going to find out what the real story is and whether or not she was actually blindsided by this. But apparently these women weren`t getting along at all, even behind the scenes, which is my contention to her, we are going to hear what she has to say about the fact that, no, it was really disturbingly dysfunctional in a way that they couldn`t work together at all. So it still is a show. It still is work for them. I don`t know.

WALLACE: You said that`s the point of the show. Now, they want these wives to fight. Why don`t they just, Bravo, they should just get these ladies in a ring, in a boxing ring, if they want a real fight, and throw in a Louie Vuitton purse in the middle and let them duke it out. That`s real housewives, that`s what I want to see, a real fight.

BEHAR: That`s a great idea. Thank you, guys, very much.

And you can catch Mr. Las Vegas --

WALLACE: Tomorrow night.

BEHAR: George Wallace, performing at the Flamingo hotel in Las Vegas every night at 10:00.

WALLACE: That`s right.

BEHAR: Oh, boy.

WALLACE: I`ll be there tomorrow night when I leave here.

BEHAR: When is Wayne Newton coming around?

WALLACE: Newton, Wayne Newton--

BEHAR: Wayne Newton.

WALLACE: I don`t know.

BEHAR: He`s old Mr. Las Vegas.

WALLACE: He`s old, but he is a good man and I love him.

BEHAR: We all love him. Who doesn`t love Wayne Newton?

WALLACE: He`s the best.

BEHAR: The hair alone I love. And be sure to watch "Showbiz Tonight," because you know who`s on that, immediately following this show for A.J.`s exclusive interview with fired real housewife, Cindy Barshop. We`ll be right back. I want to hear all about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Rachael Ray kicks off the sixth season of her very successful and Emmy Award winning show this week. And one of her guests was just the former leader of the free world. No, not Hillary. Her husband, Bill Clinton. And here he is telling Rachael who should play him in a movie. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I would say Clint Eastwood, but he`s even older than I am. Almost nobody is anymore. But I think Travolta is a great actor. He would be good. And you`d have to -- you don`t have to be as tall or whatever, but I think -- I really like Matt Damon, but the height difference may not work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Welcome to this show, the very lovely Rachael Ray. OK.

RACHAEL RAY: Congratulations to the Mrs. First time I`ve seen you since that.

BEHAR: Thank you very much. Yes.

RAY: Joy, I have a question for you.

BEHAR: Do I look like less of a virgin?

RAY: Well, it takes one to know one, right? So listen, I want to know on your brilliant top 10 list, you said you were bucking for the cover of "Brides?" AARP. Did you get the cover call yet?

BEHAR: You know, "Brides" magazine mocked up a fake cover, and they put things like you know, how to adjust his prostate, all this -- stuff like that.

RAY: Fantastic--

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: It was a very funny mockup. Now, you and Bill were quite cozy. Did he come on to you?

RAY: President -- no. President Clinton was there the day we launched, in all seriousness, the day we launched our children`s initiative. I launched a charity four years ago now that had three goals - - to eradicate hunger; the next door neighbor to hunger is childhood obesity.

BEHAR: Right.

RAY: So we have a huge childhood obesity awareness campaign.

BEHAR: Right. Which I will talk to you about in the next segment.

RAY: OK. And then -- that`s how we originally met, was our common ground with childhood obesity and we also have a scholarship program. We are partners with his Alliance for a Healthier Generation. So every once in a while, the president comes by to give us his check-up on where we`re at with the obesity issue. While he`s there, he is gracious enough to take audience questions and do some Q&A. And that clip there when he`s talking about who will play him, somebody said well, why didn`t you say George Clooney? And he said, because he`s playing a candidate in an upcoming movie. I`m a politician. I want to see how people react to that first.

BEHAR: I find him extremely sexy, don`t you?

RAY: Which?

BEHAR: Bill Clinton. George Clooney, of course, that goes without saying.

RAY: You know what I think it is? I think that he is incredibly charming.

BEHAR: And he`s brilliant.

RAY: They don`t just hand out those Rhodes scholarships for presidencies. But you know what it is, is whether he`s talking to a young person who`s struggling with some weight issues or he`s talking to an audience member, or he`s talking to his interviewer, whoever, he has that charisma, you know, it`s like a tractor beam. He really looks straight into your eye and he remembers every single thing he`s learned about you or read about you. And he`s just so honest. He`s very direct with the audience. And that`s why I enjoy his visits so much. And I think tomorrow`s visit is actually the most candid he`s ever been.

BEHAR: I think people are going to look back on his presidency the way they look at St. Ronald Reagan. They`ll say St. Bill Clinton eventually. He had his problems during his administration, but in retrospect, he did a great job.

RAY: He left the country with a surplus of money and goodwill.

BEHAR: Yes, he did, which was squandered. So this was the first show of the season for you.

RAY: Today was.

BEHAR: Today was. They surprised you the whole show, right?

RAY: It was literally a surprise show. I -- we shoot a couple episodes a day. And I had done one show that day and then I had a photoshoot some place else and they had me offset. I had no idea what was going to happen. A knock comes at the door, Jerry O`Connor opens the door, he`s so funny and terrific. He was sort of the guest host of the day. And my staff put together like an array of all my favorites. Michael J. Fox, Denis Leary, Regis and Joy Philbin. And then we had a surprise wedding. A couple --

BEHAR: I saw that.

RAY: Yes, a service couple who`d been married 10 years.

BEHAR: Do you like being surprised?

RAY: I loved it. And I want to do it the start of every season now, which almost killed our executive producer, just the thought of it, because it was so difficult for her to arrange all that.

BEHAR: But how can it be a surprise if you know what`s going to be on?

RAY: I didn`t know anything.

BEHAR: But if they do it every season, you`ll know--

RAY: No, but I would just know the word surprise. Ironically the only thing I could do for the show was to think of a meal that had surprise in the name, so I did tuna surprise.

BEHAR: Tuna surprise, yes.

RAY: But then the surprise was, I couldn`t even make that. Jerry came back out on the set and he made grilled cheese sandwiches.

BEHAR: I love it. This Anthony Bourdain is attacking you again.

RAY: No, first of all--

BEHAR: I`ll tell you what he said. Does she even cook anymore? I don`t know why she bothers. To her credit, she never said she was any good at it. I think he has a crush on you. Why would a man be so obsessed with another woman? Or does he have apron envy?

RAY: To be fair, to Anthony Bourdain, I am an enormous fan and always have been. And I think that in that particular article, those were outdated quotes. And regardless, not every kid is going to love you on the playground. And I still dig his work, I always have.

BEHAR: You are too nice.

RAY: I invited him -- I am not. I`m just truthful. I really enjoy his work and I would love to have him on our show. And we asked him for this November, and I hope, fingers crossed, he will be there. And by the way, to my face -- we`ve been at many events over the past several months together -- he`s always been lovely to me.

BEHAR: Sure, to your face.

RAY: Well, as I said, I think he was misquoted. I think it was an old quote.

BEHAR: All right. How about what he said about Paula Deen? I`ll read you that one.

RAY: If it didn`t come out of my mouth, I`m not saying it was true or not true, but go ahead.

BEHAR: The most dangerous person to America is clearly Paula Dean. Really? More than Ahmadinejad? She revels in unholy connections with evil corporations and she`s proud of the fact that her food is f-ing bad for you.

I am personally scared of Southern women, so I would not go after her if I were him.

RAY: Paula can handle it. She`s a tough, smart lady.

BEHAR: What`s up with him?

RAY: You know what, again, not every kid is going to get along with every other kid. And who said -- I mean, variety is the spice of life. He`s entitled to his opinion.

BEHAR: But it`s just nasty.

RAY: Well, sticks and stones.

BEHAR: There you go.

RAY: Sticks and stones.

BEHAR: All right. When we come back, I want to talk to you about how you`re fighting -- what you were talking about, to end childhood obesity. OK, meantime, we`ll have a snack. Sit tight. Not really.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with Rachael Ray. We`re talking about the new season of her show and also something near and dear to her heart, kids and food. How are we going to get these kids? They`re on a very bad track.

RAY: I think that the only level playing field to both eradicate hunger among American children and to lower our childhood obesity rates is all of the related disease rates in this country is through our school food programs, our public school foods. They need to be offered 12 months a year. We need to improve the quality. We just got through a big increase, the first one, in a very, very long time. And I hope -- we discussed this with President Clinton in tomorrow`s episode -- I hope that just because we`re going through now and going through these systematic cuts where everything seems to be back on the table, that we don`t look at that as one of the things that needs targeted.

BEHAR: The Republicans will want to cut that.

RAY: But you know, they can`t. No one in this country can afford the catastrophic health care costs of today. Multiply that times kids that are going to grow up and already at 9 and 10 years of age they`re on heart medication, they are on cholesterol medication. They are taking all of these adult drugs, that`s right. You want to do the math -- we can either pay now and give them a few pennies now and a little bit more time--

BEHAR: I don`t think that`s how politicians think. I think that they think, oh, let`s just save money now. If they were worried about the future, we wouldn`t be in the mess that we`re in.

RAY: That`s why you have to be really loud. The one thing I learned from spending last summer doing a lot of lobbying, is that the loudest wheel, if you give them the voice, they will use it.

BEHAR: But what they will say, Rachael, is why don`t the parents worry about this? Why does the school have to worry about it?

RAY: They do. And it`s also a byproduct of poverty. And there is a lot of people that will show the map between hunger and the very next step up is obesity because it`s the only quality of food they`ve been able to afford.

BEHAR: Why don`t they teach them home economics again, but really teach it at school?

RAY: I think vo-tech (ph) should be back across the board. I think there should be a return to the arts in the school and a return to vocational--

BEHAR: Learning to cook is very essential.

RAY: Learning to cook is essential. I think shop is essential. You used to be able to graduate high school and be skilled labor in something, you know, and you could provide for yourself. And I think it`s very empowering for children. They have better self-esteem, they stay in school, they get better grades. As soon as you improve their diets, it`s amazing what follows. The same with getting the arts back in the schools.

BEHAR: OK. I got to break, but the recipes are available online for free, yes?

RAY: Oh, yes. To every school across the country.

BEHAR: Tell people what they can do.

RAY: Well, what we`re doing with in conjunction with the Alliance for a Healthier Generation, on both our side and President Clinton`s side, every school in the country can implement what we`ve done in -- for thousands and thousands of kids coast to coast. We have all of these really fun, easy recipes that fit within the cafeteria guidelines, so that people can bring our food into their cafeteria system and improve what the kids are eating.

BEHAR: Is it OK to give them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches anymore for lunch?

RAY: Peanut butter isn`t allowed in most schools anymore because so many kids can be deathly allergic to peanuts. But I think the best way to improve the quality of the food in your own community is to get down to the school and see if you can help the kids plant a garden. They can rotate food into the cafeteria.

BEHAR: OK. You do good work, Rachael.

RAY: Thank you, Joy.

BEHAR: You and the president. OK. Check your local listings to find out when you can see the all-new season of "Rachael Ray." Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.

END