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Joy Behar Page
Interview With Jill Zarin; A Closer Look at the Palin Family; Interview With Jeff Dunham
Aired September 21, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on the JOY BEHAR SHOW. Fired real housewife from New York, Jill Zarin speaks out about Bravo`s decision to clean house. She`ll tell Joy the real reason for the lineup change and she`ll weigh in on the scandalous Salahi`s.
Then, he`s the self-proclaimed most hated man in Alaska, Levi Johnston. He`s new book placed at all the details of this whole fiasco with Sarah and Bristol Palin. And Joy will ask him if he has any regrets about that episode of his life.
Plus, superstar comedian and ventriloquist Jeff Dunham is back with his buddy, Walter. That and more starting right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Along with three other cast mates, Jill Zarin just got fired from bravo`s "Real Housewives of New York City" which means she now has free time to come on my show and trash the network.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Jill, how are you? Hello.
JILL ZARIN, FMR CAST MEMBER, THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW YORK CITY: I`m Free. I love you.
BEHAR: I love you too. I`m so happy to have you here.
ZARIN: Thank you.
BEHAR: So, Bravo said that it was a friendly departure. Was it a friendly departure?
ZARIN: Well, for them, it was friendly. We were fired, you know and nicely fired. Is there such a thing?
BEHAR: How did they do it?
ZARIN: On the telephone, we got a call from our producers.
BEHAR: That`s warm.
ZARIN: Well, there`s no other way to do it and there`s no way to be fired and be nice.
BEHAR: Why not come to you and say, look, it`s not working. What was the reason they made?
ZARIN: No reason.
BEHAR: No reason.
ZARIN: Well, reason being they wanted a change on the show.
BEHAR: That`s not what I heard. I heard it was about the girls were not getting along.
ZARIN: That`s the girls. That`s the girl talking why they think that they got fired.
BEHAR: This is all speculations from Alex McCord, Kelly Bensimon and Cindy Barshop.
ZARIN: Yes. That`s their opinion. Nobody really knows except that they shook it up. And you know I`m grateful honestly. I`m grateful for the four years I had. I never thought I would last this long. I was able to develop a brand and a future.
BEHAR: Sure.
ZARIN: Because that`s what the show does. You don`t get rich on the show. There`s no residual. There`s no money in it. But you do it and I felt squeeze couture. And now, I got something to live on with. And I`m not just stuck with that you know out of job.
BEHAR: That`s true. But being on television helps you sell your stuff.
ZARIN: 100 percent.
BEHAR: It`s going to be a little harder to sell it?
ZARIN: Well, that`s assuming the reality show is the only place to sell it.
BEHAR: There are other places to sell it, yes.
ZARIN: You bet there is. And that`s what I`ll be coming back to talk to you about.
BEHAR: Alright. You know some people speculating there was demand for a pay raise and filming stipulations.
ZARIN: Nothing. There`s - nothing that the girls did, that got anybody fired. It was literally that the network felt, after four years, they need to make a change. Every other show has had a change of one or two housewives. This was a big pretty drastic change to get rid of four. I also think it was the girls they found. If they didn`t find good women they felt would do well they would have kept more of us. They fell that they found great new characters and I don`t disagree. I think that they`re interesting women and what happens to what happened.
BEHAR: Well, you`re being very, very nice about this.
ZARIN: But that`s the truth. I`m being honest. I think that the girls, I read the resumes today, came out the three women they put on the show. I think, not bad. You know, they got them.
BEHAR: How the mighty have fallen. Jackie Kennedy`s niece.
ZARIN: Turning over in her grave.
BEHAR: Turning over in her grave.
BEHAR: Turning over in her grave.
(LAUGHTER)
ZARIN: Seriously, I can`t imagine the family is happy about this. I know my family wasn`t happy that I did the show. But turned I made it into something really good and they wanted me to leave a while ago. So, this is a blessing for me.
BEHAR: So none - nothing - you`re not pissed about anything?
ZARIN: I don`t like being fired. I don`t like being fired. I`m not going to lie. It doesn`t feel good. But you know what, nine percent unemployment. I`m not the only one who was fired. Of course, we don`t get unemployment because we`re not employees. Often people who don`t, the people who do not know that and like I said, we don`t get residuals, It`s not like and -
BEHAR: Stop, you`re breaking my heart.
ZARIN: No, no. But I want people to know. No. Because there are reality stars unemployable after they`re on television. I`m not talking about myself. I am married to a successful. I`m businesswoman in my own right and empower women. I just wanted to say that there are people who think that after reality, some of the people on my show don`t have jobs.
BEHAR: Now, Cindy Barshop, she said it was because the ladies truly didn`t like each other and was making production difficult. What do you respond to that? First of all, isn`t that exactly what people like, that you didn`t get along with each other?
ZARIN: don`t agree with her because you`re trading one for another. I have no doubt this show next season will be full of drama and cat fights.
BEHAR: But isn`t it true that nobody like each other? Ramona, one of the girls, she said that Jill, you, became a negative force in my life, cancerous.
ZARIN: Cancerous? Isn`t that a horrible thing to say?
BEHAR: It is.
ZARIN: That is a horrible thing to say. Like talk about beating a dog when they`re down. I got fired, OK. You don`t have to put the nail in the coffin. It`s just not - I would never have said that about her. I think she should have been graceful and said, listen, you know Jill and I had our ups and downs and wish her the best.
BEHAR: What was the fight about?
ZARIN: Who remembers? That was pretty mean. Pretty low.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about other drama in the housewife world.
ZARIN: Let`s do it.
BEHAR: OK. ET had its first interview with Taylor Armstrong last night since Russell committed suicide and she made some shocking allegations. Let`s watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAYLOR ARMSTRONG, CAST MEMBER, THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF BEVERLY HILLS: The first time he ever really harmed me physically, I was pregnant with Kennedy. I had made pizza for his children before he got home from work. And he came into the master bedroom and grabbed me by the neck and shoved me up against the wall and said, if you ever make my children a pizza without a vegetable again, I`ll kill you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARIN: Wow!
BEHAR: I mean she has reportedly made $125,000 by selling these pictures to "E.T." which Russell`s lawyer says, they say that they`re undated and unauthenticated. Don`t you think that selling the picture is not helping her? Does she need the money?
ZARIN: Yes. That`s the bottom line. Do I think it`s a terrible situation? Yes. Do I think its kind a gross and morbid in the fact that the body barely cold? Yes. But the woman has got to make a living and has tons of debt so the rumors are. And if she needs the money to pay off all these debts, she has going to do whatever she has to do.
BEHAR: OK. What about this Michaele Salahi? The one who left -
ZARIN: Salacious.
BEHAR: Salacious Salahi. She left her husband, Tareq for the guitarist from journey.
ZARIN: So would I, by the way.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Would you really?
ZARIN: No. I mean I would if, anything over that one. I mean he can sing and I love foreigners so it`s not a bad thing.
BEHAR: What`s wrong with Tareq?
ZARIN: Not my type.
BEHAR: Whose type is he?
ZARIN: Is he your type? You`re married now.
BEHAR: Listen. I would have left my first husband for Buddy Holly.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK, Thank you Jill. We`ll be back after a quick break.
ZARIN: Love you.
(LAUGHTER)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER: Coming up next, Levi Johnston is here to talk about his explosive new memoir, "Dear in the Headlights, my life and Sarah Palin`s crosshairs."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: If you thought Bristol Palin`s baby daddy Levi Johnston revealed everything in his playgirl spread last year think again. Is his new book, "Deer Headlights, my life in Sarah Palin`s crosshair." He opens up about life inside the Palin`s family.
Joining us now, is the self-proclaimed most hated man in Alaska, that was in his word, Levi Johnston.
Ok, Levi, great to see you again. It`s always a pleasure. Why do you say you`re the most hated man in Alaska? How many you know? There are like 11 men in Alaska.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Actually, that`s not true. There are a lot of men in Alaska.
LEVI JOHNSTON, AUTHOR, DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS, MY LIFE IN SARAH PALIN`S CROSSHAIRS: There are a lot of men in there. I was just throwing that in there. You know I haven`t taken a poll so I really don`t know if I`m a hated man. But -
BEHAR: You just feel like you might be.
JOHNSTON: Probably yes.
BEHAR: Well, but before we get into all the ditches in the book and all the interesting allegations that you throw out there. You and Bristol had a really interesting romantic thing going according to you. You write she was the sun of my life. We became secret camping lovers, scraping gnarly gnats off our lips before we kissed. That is so beautiful.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I wouldn`t have dreamed of scraping gnarly gnats off my lips.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSTON: Yes. It`s all true in there. I mean that`s how we spent many years together and a lot of good stories and we had a good time.
BEHAR: So, you call this thing, the book "the deer in the headlights." what`s the most deer in the headlights moment in your recollection?
JOHNSTON: I was coming back with a sheep hunt with my father.
BEHAR: Came back from what?
JOHNSTON: A sheep hunt?
BEHAR: A sheep hunt. What do you mean a sheep hunt? Sitting there waiting for you to shoot them.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSTON: No, no, no. Not sheep on a farm. Like you know the ram that often a big thaw have horns and -
BEHAR: You were going to kill a ram for what?
JOHNSTON: For food?
BEHAR: For food.
JOHNSTON: It`s a sport.
BEHAR: Alright, whatever. That`s crazy, plain crazy, if you want my opinion. Alright, go ahead.
JOHNSTON: We get back and I get a phone call, Sarah`s nominated for vice president. So, we get back home and I`m thrown into the RNC here. And you know the private planes and we land down and got a mullet, first thing to do was chop my hair. And then,
BEHAR: You had a mullet?
JOHNSTON: Yes. They weren`t going to allow that. And they wanted me to shave, you know the spray tans and fingernails, they wanted me to get pedicures and stuff. I said, no. No.
BEHAR: Trying to turn you into a fop.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Right?
JOHNSTON: Yes.
BEHAR: So they spray tanned you?
JOHNSTON: No. I didn`t allow that.
BEHAR: You didn`t allow that. What did you allow besides the mullet chop?
JOHNSTON: Just the haircut.
BEHAR: Just the haircut.
JOHNSTON: Hair cut and I put on the $80 socks and fancy clothes and shut-up and smiled and waved and did what I was told?
BEHAR: That was at the convention and I saw that and watched. I saw that. And I agree you did look like a deer in the headlights. But you also, there`s a picture of you, see you were all dressed up and everything salute presto. Look at you. You don`t even look like you.
JOHNSTON: No.
BEHAR: You look like a Republican senator there. Here, you look scared. The two of you look scared in that picture, don`t you think?
JOHNSTON: We were.
BEHAR: Like what the hell are we doing here?
JOHNSTON: That`s what I was thinking.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Yes. Yes. But I remember that and I thought what`s going on here. Since that time though, you have lived your life in the public in a fishbowl. I mean, why do you open yourself up to scrutiny so much? Why do you do that?
JOHNSTON: You know -
BEHAR: In this book, you tell stuff.
JOHNSTON: Yes. I mean I tell everything in that book. You know I kind a got tired of people talking about me and my family and everything else. And you know it was time for me to tell my side of the story and lay it out there for everybody.
BEHAR: And make a few bucks while you`re at it?
JOHNSTON: That`s always good.
BEHAR: That`s one of the reasons people write books, tell the truth. But I mean your whole family has been under scrutiny. Your mother was selling Oxycontin? Does she know rush Limbaugh? How does your mother start selling Oxycontin?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSTON: I don`t know. I don`t know how to get into that. I don`t want to - I don`t want to piss mommy off?
BEHAR: OK. Johnston, you pissed of enough people already. And your sister posed nude in playboy, you post in playgirl. You`re a busy, busy group.
JOHNSTON: Busy group. Yes.
BEHAR: OK. Now, one of the things I read in the book is that Bristol. You say that Bristol became pregnant in part to spite her mother. Explain.
JOHNSTON: Bristol and I talked about getting you know married and having kids. And after - you know we were young.
BEHAR: Very young. 17 and 18?
JOHNSTON: Right. Sarah actually got pregnant, you know, had Trig. That`s what really sparked Bristol to kick off the pregnancy now. We talked about it. And one thing led to another. I wasn`t being careful as you would barely off the birth control and there`s Tripp.
BEHAR: There`s trip. But so now Bristol sees that Sarah has a baby or was having a baby, right? She was pregnant. And she decides she has to have a baby before her mother. Why? She was 17 years old. What would provoke her?
JOHNSTON: Well, after you know Sarah had Trig and just recently you know about a month after, we found out she was pregnant with Tripp. So, you know it was definitely a start for her.
BEHAR: And then you say that Sarah wanted to adopt - I can`t keep the names straight, I have to tell you. Your child is Tripp. And her baby, Sarah`s is Trig and there`s Track somewhere also.
JOHNSTON: Yes.
BEHAR: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: We were thinking if somebody has twins, you can call them Trick and Treat. What do you think of that?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSTON: We`ll see.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Anyway, what about this allegation that she wanted to adopt Tripp to avoid a scandal?
JOHNSTON: Yes. I was actually getting - that`s when I was getting the Bristol tattoo in my finger. We were down at the tattoo shop. And she calls us and you know she lays out that idea in Bristol and Bristol freaks out and said you`ll never guess what she said. And you know, just like, what do you think about me and Todd adopting Tripp. I blew up.
BEHAR: You did?
JOHNSTON: I hung up the phone. That was the end of that conversation.
BEHAR: And how did Bristol feel?
JOHNSTON: That was horrible for Bristol. I mean Bristol took it bad.
BEHAR: She took it bad.
JOHNSTON: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, you say on page 87 in your book it was kind of ironic that Sarah offered to be a mother to another child considering she basically ignored the ones she already had. So, why do you say that?
JOHNSTON: Because she was always gone.
BEHAR: She was in politics, a, wooing mother.
JOHNSTON: Right.
BEHAR: So, maybe Todd took over. So?
JOHNSTON: Not so much. I mean, there`s a lot of it was Bristol. I mean, all the time I spent there, Bristol was taking care of Piper and helping Willow`s homework and everybody else. So, I would definitely say that Bristol, from what I`ve - you know the years I spent there, was definitely more of the mother.
BEHAR: You also refute Sarah`s claim that you were not present when Bristol gave birth to your son, Tripp. How do you respond to that?
JOHNSTON: She said I wasn`t what?
BEHAR: You were not present when the child was born.
JOHNSTON: That`s ridiculous.
BEHAR: I think there is a picture of you in the hospital some place, right?
JOHNSTON: I`m sure there is somewhere. My sister has them, everybody has them.
BEHAR: Why would she say that?
JOHNSTON: I have no idea. I was there. Actually, the whole story is in the book about me short, long story short, I was with Todd and Willow up at the cabin. Bristol and Sarah called me, said she`s going in labor. Todd ran me back to the truck and I ran all the way, drove all the way to the hospital. I made it four hours early and she ended up having Tripp at like 5:53 or something in the morning.
BEHAR: So you and Sarah are at odds at that point. I mean the rest of you were perception.
JOHNSTON: Right.
BEHAR: She wasn`t a good mother, all the stuff. Whether you were in the hospital or not.
JOHNSTON: That`s a blatant lie.
BEHAR: It could just be disputed.
JOHNSTON: She didn`t get correct I couldn`t cut the umbilical cord. That`s the only thing she told right about that whole story because I couldn`t do it. They handed me the scissors and I couldn`t do it.
BEHAR: Really? What type of hospital? Has somebody not the doctor cut the - I thought only doctors did that. But that`s another point. I don`t care about that. Several instances you talk about not being able to see your son. I mean, why not really push that? Why not push it? You are the father, we know that. Everybody has said it. Why can`t you see this kid?
JOHNSTON: I don`t think it`s because I can`t, it`s because, you know, she`s always gone and traveling with him.
BEHAR: Bristol?
JOHNSTON: Yes.
BEHAR: So, get on a plane and follow her.
JOHNSTON: To Arizona.
BEHAR: We`re not talking about Shanghai. We`re talking only Arizona.
JOHNSTON: I shouldn`t have to do that. I mean it`s illegal for her to even take Tripp out of Alaska to my knowledge.
BEHAR: But your responsibility as a father is you have to push it, that`s what I have to say to you.
JOHNSTON: Right.
BEHAR: That`s what I have to say to you.
JOHNSTON: Right.
BEHAR: You know they can do what they do. But that doesn`t mean when your kid is grown up, you have to be able to look at him and say, I tried to be in your presence, in your life. And maybe people didn`t want me to, but I really made and effort. Anyway, that`s my advice.
JOHNSTON: OK.
BEHAR: Later, Joe McGinniss is here with his own allegations about Sarah Palin. She is the biggest star in the country right now. Net, I`m going to ask Levi to respond and we`ll see if their claims match up or not. Stay there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER: Coming up a little later, ventriloquist extraordinaire, Jeff Dunham and its dummy Walter dropped by to talk about their comedy central special.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We are back with Levi Johnston, who is telling his side of the story in his new book "Deer in the Headlights." You know, I`m going to be talking to Joe McGinniss in a little while who wrote a book about your mother in-law also, calls "Rogue" I think is part of the title.
And there is an unsubstantiated rumor in that book that Trig is not Sarah`s son. That - did you ever - that she was not really pregnant, this is what the allegations that when she was in I guess in Arizona. And then she flew to Seattle and nobody on the plane said she didn`t look pregnant and then she went, she did give birth to a baby supposedly. What do you know about that?
JOHNSTON: All I know is Willow found a pregnancy stick, told -
BEHAR: Did you sigh her pregnant when she have, when she was pregnant with Trig?
JOHNSTON: I`ve seen her just like everybody else. She covered it up real well, you know. But like I said, willow found the stick, showed Bristol and that`s how I found out. You know everybody is -
BEHAR: Willow found what?
JOHNSTON: The pregnancy stick.
BEHAR: Willow found the stick. Really?
JOHNSTON: That`s the story and then -
BEHAR: And it was Sarah`s not Bristol`s?
JOHNSTON: Bristol wasn`t pregnant at that time. And the only thing I could say, I actually showed up at the hospital probably four or five hours after she apparently had Trig. When she was in there she had you the outfit on. She was lying in the bed. She had the IV in her arm. On a blackberry, Trig was in there, Todd and all the kids.
BEHAR: OK. That`s interesting to tell me that. Because when I talk to Joe McGinniss, I am going to tell him what you saw. You were actually there. All right. Let`s see. Let me go of the things that Joe McGinniss is saying. Did Bristol ever talk about her mother having an affair while she was married?
JOHNSTON: Bristol did once, yes.
BEHAR: He says she had an affair with Todd`s business partner, a guy named Brad Hanson. Hanson?
JOHNSTON: That was actually - yes, I read that in the "Enquirer."
BEHAR: The "Enquirer."
JOHNSTON: It`s got to be true, right? But yes, I heard of that. I don`t know if that`s true.
BEHAR: So, you don`t know. That Bristol never mentioned anything about that?
JOHNSTON: She - she mentioned - no, she didn`t.
BEHAR: All right. He also suggests that Sarah is extremely religious. And you say she isn`t. He says she`s a religious extremist. Is she?
JOHNSTON: Not unless she changed in the last couple of years, no. She went to church once, twice maybe a year gone Christmas eve. And I don`t think she`s very religious.
BEHAR: You`ve seen her go to church though you saw her go to church?
JOHNSTON: A couple times.
BEHAR: Did she speak about religion in the house? Were there crosses around or anything like that?
JOHNSTON: Very few.
BEHAR: OK. He also says that Todd and Sarah did a lot of cocaine at some point. Did you ever see anything like that?
JOHNSTON: Didn`t see any cocaine. Todd kept his beer in the garage and drank in there. But I never really seen Sarah drink much either.
BEHAR: She didn`t drink.
JOHNSTON: She didn`t seem like -
BEHAR: Does it shock you to think she might have been doing coke, it sounds ridiculous to you?
JOHNSTON: Yes. That might explain why she`s religious now.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: All right, Levi. Thank you so much for this interview. And the book is quite - the cover is very funny.
JOHNSTON: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s called "Deer in the Headlights" and we`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER: Coming up next, best selling author, Joe McGinniss is here to talk about his controversial tell-all book about Sarah Palin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: In his best-sellers "Fatal Vision" and `Blind Faith" Joe McGinniss told the story of a couple of notorious murders. In his new book, he looks into the lives of Sarah Palin and her family. What do you have a death wish, Joe? Joining me now the author of "The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin." Joe McGinnis. Welcome to the show, Joe.
JOE MCGINNISS, AUTHOR, "THE ROGUE: SEARCHING FOR THE REAL SARAH PALIN": Thank you, Joy.
BEHAR: Now, let`s start with the moving in next door. I know everybody talks to you about this, but you moved into a house right next door to Sarah up in Wasilla. And here`s my question. Could you see Russia from that house?
MCGINNISS: I could see rush hour. Wasilla has a rush hour.
BEHAR: Yeah.
MCGINNISS: But, you know, the thing is, this is a woman who believes that she was anointed by God to have a career in politics, to make America into a Christian republic because the mainstream media paid no attention to her background, nobody did any homework on her in 2008, running for vice president, she got to within a few percentage points and one heart beat away ...
BEHAR: Yeah.
MCGINNISS: ... from the presidency of the United States.
BEHAR: I know that.
MCGINNISS: Despite the fact that she`s a religious extremist, a blatant racist and utterly unqualified to hold any office.
BEHAR: I didn`t get that she was trying to turn the nation into a Christian nation or that she was that religious. In fact, I just interviewed Levi Johnston ...
MCGINNISS: Yes.
BEHAR: ... her son-in-law and he says that she was not religious at all. She went to church twice a year.
MCGINNISS: She may not practice on a regular basis. But since before she ran for the Wasilla city council, she`s been governed by the theology of the Assembly of God, a Dominionist Christian sect that believes in the end -- in ending the separation between church and state in America.
BEHAR: Well, how is she any different from, say, Rick Perry?
MCGINNISS: Does Rick Perry want to end the separation of church and state?
BEHAR: I don`t think he wants to keep it the way it is so much.
MCGINNISS: Well, he may not.
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGINNISS: But Sarah is -- Sarah`s spiritual adviser is a woman who believes in witchcraft, you know, this is going back into Christine O`Donnell country. You know, Sarah was anointed by that bishop from Kenya a few years ago to protect her from demons. These people are so far out on the fringe, that I don`t think they have any business near a national office. And I think that the media -- they were so bedazzled by Sarah`s freshness or sauciness, her charm, her personality ...
BEHAR: Yeah.
MCGINNISS: That they didn`t even look behind the mask. They didn`t try to ...
BEHAR: Well, the medium likes sort of a star. She`s kind of a star.
MCGINNISS: She`s kind of a star.
BEHAR: And I think the media is drawn to that whether you like her or you don`t like her. She`s very attractive.
MCGINNISS: She`s good for ratings.
BEHAR: Yeah, she`s ...
MCGINNISS: That`s what they like, that`s what they like.
BEHAR: I mean it`s possible that your book is going to make her more popular because the allegations are stirring up a lot of trouble amongst the, you know, her followers.
MCGINNISS: I don`t think that she will become more popular. I don`t think anything at this point could ever make Sarah Palin more popular than she was in 2008.
BEHAR: I don`t know. She`s -- today`s poll. There was a poll out today ...
MCGINNISS: Yes.
BEHAR: ... that she`s right behind Obama in popularity.
MCGINNISS: Well, she -- that`s ...
BEHAR: Not that he`s so popular right now.
MCGINNISS: That shows -- that`s just problem for Obama, right?
BEHAR: Yeah. Yeah.
MCGINNISS: Yeah. But I think -- you know, sure, I hope she does run, but ...
BEHAR: I do, too.
MCGINNISS: I don`t think she will.
BEHAR: I`d like her to run. I`d like Glenn Beck to run, I`d like Rick Perry, everybody who can`t win, I`d like them to run.
MCGINNISS: That`s -- that`s the best thing.
BEHAR: Now, let`s talk about some of the claims in the book. I mean this one, I thought was odd. You suggested she was a racist and was horrified that she had sex with a black man in 1987, the future NBA star, Glen Rice. First of all, I don`t care that she had sex with a black guy. No one cares. She was a young girl, she was single. What`s the difference? Why put it in the book?
MCGINNISS: I`ll tell you -- I`m glad you asked that question.
BEHAR: Yeah.
MCGINNISS: Because I`ll tell you exactly why. The story, which you know from reading the book ...
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGINNISS: ... that I heard repeatedly, was that Sarah had had sex with a black man and had a terrible reaction afterwards.
BEHAR: She had a bad reaction.
MCGINNISS: She had a bad reaction. She freaked-out. She said, I can`t believe I had sex with a black man. She was very upset and she went on and on about this. People remember it clearly more than 20 years later. So, I said, that would be interesting because when she became governor, one of the first things she did was fire the black people who had second and third level jobs in the state office building because she said seeing that many black faces around her made her uncomfortable.
BEHAR: Isn`t that against the law?
MCGINNISS: Well, the end ...
BEHAR: The law (ph).
MCGINNISS: The NAACP was going to file suit about that but at that time ...
BEHAR: So, why didn`t they? Why didn`t they?
MCGINNISS: At that point -- I`ll tell you,
BEHAR: Go ahead.
MCGINNISS: because Sarah was so popular in Alaska at that time, that they felt there would be a backlash against minorities if the NAACP pressed that suit. She had a 90 percent popularity rating at that time.
BEHAR: What kind of the backlash?
MCGINNISS: They were -- they were afraid to take her on.
BEHAR: Joe ...
MCGINNISS: The fact is, you don`t want ...
BEHAR: Does the NAACP worry about a backlash? They`ve had backlashes for -- I have a 100 a year, a 100 a year.
MCGINNISS: You know, call somebody in Anchorage, from the Anchorage NAACP and ask them why they didn`t file a suit. The reason I was (inaudible) was because they were afraid of a political backlash. The point is -- let`s go back to ...
BEHAR: I won`t -- we are not going to do that.
MCGINNISS: The point is -- here`s the point.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
MCGINNISS: The point is that I didn`t want to put that story in the book without confirming it with the man who is involved. If I couldn`t find who the man was.
BEHAR: It`s Glen Rice.
MCGINNISS: It turned out after months.
BEHAR: Yeah.
MCGINNISS: It was not easy to find out who this person was. But I did find out. It was Glen Rice. So I called him. And I said, here`s the story I heard. I heard that after you had sex with Sarah, she had a really bad reaction. She freaked out. Do you remember her having a bad reaction after your encounter? He said, no, no, nothing like that. He said that`s just the opposite of how it was. It was all very sweet. I had a crush on her. We stayed in touch for months afterwards, talking on the telephone for months right up until the time she got married. So I used that to disprove the story that I had first been told, which was that she had a bad reaction ...
BEHAR: OK.
MCGINNISS: ... because I talked to the man and he said she didn`t have a bad reaction.
BEHAR: All right.
MCGINNISS: She was very happy about it.
BEHAR: OK. All right.
MCGINNISS: There you go.
BEHAR: Now, the one big allegation in the book that I think is a problem is that the rumor that Trig was not her baby, this Down syndrome child, that you and Andrew Sullivan are putting this out there, right?
MCGINNISS: No. No. No. All Andrew`s been doing for two years is asking why the mainstream media has not looked at the story she has told about the events leading up to her birth, the hours before Trig`s birth ...
BEHAR: What`s the implication?
MCGINNISS: Because the story -- because if that story, which really defies belief, if you look at it step by step by step, if that story isn`t true, why would she make it up? Why would she be telling it and why would she be claiming that this was happening?
BEHAR: Why would she? Why would she?
MCGINNISS: I have no idea.
BEHAR: OK, let me tell you what her son-in-law said.
MCGINNISS: Good.
BEHAR: He was just here and I asked him that question. And he said, she was in the hospital, he was in the hospital, he went to visit her when she gave birth to Trig. She was on IV and the baby was there in the hospital. He was there ...
MCGINNISS: He got there -- he didn`t witness the birth.
BEHAR: Oh, no. How many people witness a birth?
MCGINNISS: I witnessed the birth of all five of my children.
BEHAR: Yeah, but that`s your children. He was not the father of the child. He was just a guy who slept with her daughter.
MCGINNISS: The point is she was in Dallas, Texas. Her water breaks. She waits nine hours, she doesn`t go to a hospital in Dallas, Texas. She`s a high risk mother ...
BEHAR: Yeah.
MCGINNISS: having a high risk pregnancy, having a special needs child, she`s thousands of miles away from home, she doesn`t do anything once her water breaks and she goes -- starts having contractions, what does she do? She`s having contractions, she makes a speech.
BEHAR: But how do you know she`s having contractions?
MCGINNISS: She makes up political speech.
BEHAR: How do you know?
MCGINNISS: She said so.
BEHAR: So, then you`re saying that she then got on a plane, went to Seattle and gave another speech or something, or -- right?
MCGINNISS: She waited -- she flew for hours, she stopped, she changed planes, she waited for hours, she flew more hours, all the while getting closer and closer to birth bypassing major medical facilities with neonatal intensive care units to get to a tiny little backwoods hospital in Wasilla ...
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGINNISS: ... where all of a sudden the next day here is this baby, and here is Sarah and this is her story.
BEHAR: This is kind of a bombshell allegation or theory or rumor whatever you want to call it.
MCGINNISS: It is not -- Listen, I don`t want to call it an allegation, I don`t make an allegation.
BEHAR: Yeah.
MCGINNISS: I say that the mainstream media has been very derelict in its duty to inquire into this, because this is a woman whose political candidacy was based on her proving that she`s a right to lifer. And how does she prove it? She proved it by giving birth to a Down syndrome baby yet there are a whole series of unanswered questions surrounding the circumstances of that birth.
BEHAR: Well, that -- why don`t you investigate this?
MCGINNISS: And I`m only one person ...
BEHAR: You`re an investigative reporter, go investigate more.
MCGINNISS: I`ve been up there -- You know what, I have to write a book. I wrote the book. Now, the media can pick up from where my book takes them. I take you right to a point where I say, I don`t know what happened. Here`s what I do know. Here are the facts, now, let somebody else investigate.
BEHAR: OK. Before I read Todd Palin`s statement, which I have to do.
MCGINNISS: Oh, another one?
BEHAR: No, it`s the same one.
MCGINNISS: OK.
BEHAR: Levi also said no cocaine, never saw it. She didn`t even drink. You said that they did cocaine. He said -- I said, did Bristol ask -- say that her mother was having an affair with this business partner? He said Bristol never said the name Brad Hanson or anything like that.
MCGINNISS: I don`t know why she would.
BEHAR: She might have not.
MCGINNISS: Yeah, Sarah`s not bragging to her children about having an affair, is she?
BEHAR: Yeah, I`m just telling ...
MCGINNISS: I don`t think so.
BEHAR: ... what Levi said.
MCGINNISS: That`s fine.
BEHAR: So you?
MCGINNISS: Levi was in that house living there what, for two or three months? This cocaine took place years and years before that. Levi didn`t even know Sarah Palin.
BEHAR: He does kind of agree with you that she was a negligent parent.
MCGINNISS: Aha.
BEHAR: That part he did agree with you on.
MCGINNISS: Fine. No. I`m glad. You know, because really, Levi`s opinion really matters to me, you know. The poor kid, saying listen -- this is the kid who has ...
BEHAR: It`s not his opinion, it`s perception.
MCGINNISS: He has -- the same thing. He says that he hasn`t even finished high school. You know, what does Levi know about anything?
BEHAR: But I don`t think that`s ...
MCGINNISS: He`s a nice kid.
BEHAR: And why discredit an eye-witness?
MCGINNISS: He`s not an eyewitness.
BEHAR: He was there.
MCGINNISS: To what?
BEHAR: You were in the next house. He was in the house.
MCGINNISS: No, he wasn`t not, not the summer of 2010.
BEHAR: Well, not maybe that`s exact time, but he did spend time with the family.
MCGINNISS: A couple of months.
BEHAR: He slept -- he slept with the daughter, he knows something.
MCGINNISS: He knows how to get the daughter pregnant, right?
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGINNISS: He doesn`t know how to use a condom.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No, that`s true. Well, if he does, he didn`t` want to.
MCGINNISS: Yes.
BEHAR: But anyway, this is Todd Palin`s statement. This is a -- this is a "man who`s been relentlessly stalking my family to the point of moving in right next door to us to harass and spy on us, to satisfy his creepy obsession with my wife. His book is full of disgusting lies, innuendoes and smears.
(on camera): Did your publishers -- lawyers fact check everything in the book?
MCGINNISS: Oh, obviously.
BEHAR: Obviously. You -- everybody went on the record, some people used their names, some were unanimous.
MCGINNISS: Absolutely.
BEHAR: I have to say, Joe. You`re a very respected reporter, so but people do have to ask you these questions.
MCGINNISS: That`s right.
BEHAR: There are a lot of things in here that are explosives.
MCGINNISS: I`m very happy to answer the questions, and I`m glad you`re asking it.
BEHAR: OK, and it was great to have you here.
MCGINNISS: Thank you.
BEHAR: The book is called -- "The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin" and it`s in stores now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: OK, before we go any further, I have to clarify one more thing before we go on. I mean, Levi Johnston is not Sarah Palin`s son-in-law. I kept calling him son-in-law because I didn`t want to say baby daddy. But he`s not legally married to Bristol. OK, let`s move on. Anyway, ventriloquist Jeff Dunham spent any more time working with hostile puppet, he`d be appearing before Congress. But instead, he`s appearing on Comedy Central in a brand new TV special. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF DUNHAM: I have a new hobby.
A new hobby?
Yes.
What is it?
I am now a ventriloquist, too.
No, you`re not.
Yes, I am. See, I can do this, too!
Fantastic.
How are you, little ugly Jeff?
Not good.
Wait a minute. You`re going to call him ugly Jeff?
No. Little ugly Jeff.
Is there any other name?
Little ugly [ bleep ] Jeff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I love a puppet that curses. I dated one once.
DUNHAM: You dated one.
BEHAR: I dated one. Here with me now is Jeff Dunham, comedian, ventriloquist and the author of "All by Myselves: Walter, Peanut, Akmed and Me," which is out in paperback. Joining me as well is Jeff`s partner, Walter -- not partner in life, not a love object.
DUNHAM: Not a baby daddy either.
BEHAR: Not a baby daddy. So is it more PC to say puppets or dummies? I don`t want to get hate mail from the puppet support groups.
DUNHAM: Wooden American.
BEHAR: A Wooden American. OK.
DUNHAM: I`m glad we got that straight off the top. Joy, good to see you again. I must say congratulations on finally tying the noose.
BEHAR: Is that how you see marriage?
DUNHAM: That`s how I look at it. Why all of a sudden get married? How long did you date the guy? What`s his name, Scott? Vince, Steve?
BEHAR: Steve.
DUNHAM: Steve. I don`t care.
BEHAR: I know you don`t care.
DUNHAM: Was it 29 years, something like that?
BEHAR: 29 years. That`s right, what are you stalking me? How do you know all this?
DUNHAM: Did you have to get married, Joy?
BEHAR: I was. I was pregnant.
DUNHAM: Well, that`s fascinating. And you gave birth to Ted Turner. What?
BEHAR: No, and Levi Johnston is not the baby daddy.
DUNHAM: I understand that. That was a little awkward but you handled it well.
BEHAR: Thank you very much. I see in your special that you`ve added some new puppets to the act, Jeff, why?
DUNHAM: And added some new characters. It`s time to keep going and moving forward. I kind of look at it like a business, you have to give them something new every once in a while, and old and new material, but every once in a while throw in a new character. So you`re familiar with Akmed the dead terrorist?
BEHAR: Yes.
DUNHAM: He`s not funny.
It is funny.
BEHAR: He feels threatened. Walter feels threatened.
DUNHAM: I don`t feel threatened.
BEHAR: By his new puppet siblings.
DUNHAM: Siblings? I wouldn`t call them siblings.
BEHAR: What would you call them?
DUNHAM: I don`t know, I don`t know. They`re just employees, they`re like folks around here. You work with them, you don`t care about them.
BEHAR: You calling my staff a bunch of dummies?
DUNHAM: Well, let`s move on, because there`s another baby daddy moment coming.
BEHAR: OK. But are you getting bored with the others? Close your ears, Walter. Are you bored with the other puppets?
DUNHAM: No, actually, I look at it like I do a company like Apple. They always have their core products, but they are also improving, and every once in a while they come up with something fantastic. And so I try to come up with something new now and then, because the fans have been around forever. I did 20 years of comedy clubs, and now we have moved on to bigger and better places.
BEHAR: You`re a huge hit.
DUNHAM: Here, there and everywhere.
BEHAR: You are a huge hit. That`s why you`re here. Usually I don`t talk to dummies. But because you are such a huge hit, you`re here.
DUNHAM: It`s an honor.
I want to talk about marriage again.
BEHAR: Really?
DUNHAM: Do you still do it?
Walter.
I`m just asking, my wife and I don`t have sex on the regular. We have oral sex now.
BEHAR: Really?
DUNHAM: She screams screw you and I yell bite me. Thank you. Can I do that on the air?
BEHAR: You can do whatever you want.
DUNHAM: I heard that.
BEHAR: How do you feel about the new dummies coming into the picture? Are you upset?
DUNHAM: I don`t really mind much. Who`s the new guy?
Akmed now has a son.
Right.
BEHAR: Akmed is a dead terrorist.
DUNHAM: He`s a dead terrorist.
BEHAR: A dead terrorist.
DUNHAM: I signed him up the other day to be an organ donor. It`s hilarious. He`s a skeleton, hello! You have to explain them sometimes.
BEHAR: Jeff, do you have a favorite puppet?
DUNHAM: I`m kind of a chameleon. It`s whoever is doing well on stage.
BEHAR: That is so wrong of you to say that. Do you hear that, Walter?
DUNHAM: It`s like asking you who your favorite child is.
BEHAR: I only have one child, though. Ah-ha! Got you. Tell me who your favorite is.
DUNHAM: I don`t know. Like I said, it depends on -- and that`s why when you come and see one of my shows, you can`t really pinpoint who is there. The demographic are all over the board. There`s old, there`s young, there`s educated, there`s uneducated, there`s blue and white collar, you know, kids and old folk. That`s what makes it fun. And it`s because of the different characters and there is a different appeal. Walter, you would assume would appeal to someone like who? Joy?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I`m starting to get attracted to you as the session goes on.
DUNHAM: I feel the same. I feel moist now. My brow.
BEHAR: It`s very warm in here. Let me fan you.
DUNHAM: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: Were you a lonely child, Jeff, or something? Did you have no friends? Is that what this is about?
DUNHAM: It is kind of. It`s really sad. She hit it on the head, didn`t she? Yes, he was sad and lonely.
BEHAR: Did you have any brothers or sisters?
DUNHAM: No brothers, no sisters.
BEHAR: Any friends?
DUNHAM: And I was adopted. It was-
BEHAR: Were you really adopted?
DUNHAM: Absolutely.
BEHAR: That`s what this is about, isn`t it? I realize there`s some pathology. I couldn`t put my finger on it. But you were adopted.
DUNHAM: You can put anything you want on it, Joy.
BEHAR: Did you ever ask your parents, did you really want me, Jeff?
DUNHAM: No, I never did that, but maybe I will actually do that now.
BEHAR: I think it`s time to say that, and maybe in the next segment. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with ventriloquist Jeff Dunham. And joining us now is Akmed, the dead terrorist.
DUNHAM: Greetings, infidel Joy! It`s so nice to be in a country where a woman can actually work.
BEHAR: That`s right. I`ve never actually interviewed a terrorist, dead or alive. How did you exactly die?
DUNHAM: I`ve never actually talked to a woman. I have many wives. They`re all covered. Why are you not covered, Joy?
BEHAR: You want me to put (inaudible) on my head? I can do it.
DUNHAM: Yes. That`s OK.
BEHAR: I don`t have anything.
DUNHAM: You`re looking good.
BEHAR: Thank you. But I was thinking, were you upset when bin Laden got killed?
DUNHAM: I had nothing to do with it. I swear, I was nowhere near. I have no idea what`s happening. That Navy SEAL training was just for fun. But you know, I do not think bin Laden went to heaven. You know why?
BEHAR: Why?
DUNHAM: There were no 72 virgins. It was actually a big understanding. It was actually one 72-year-old virgin.
BEHAR: You`re dead. What are you finding in heaven?
DUNHAM: Bin Laden is stuck forever with Bea Arthur. It`s a joke!
I`m sorry, what was the last question? He wasn`t listening.
BEHAR: The last question is you`re dead. Did you find any virgins yet?
DUNHAM: No, I didn`t find any virgins. No, it was kind of a joke. Did you actually ask that question or is it one written down or you?
BEHAR: Both.
DUNHAM: This is good.
BEHAR: But you had no answer for it.
(CROSSTALK)
DUNHAM: You didn`t actually go anywhere. No, I actually stayed here, my own kind of hell. Here I am.
BEHAR: So what`s the point of all these terrorists saying they want to die and go get the virgins when they can`t even get off the planet?
DUNHAM: Joy, you know, I enjoy your questions about going to heaven or hell, but you know, this is all actually fake.
BEHAR: It is? Oh my God.
DUNHAM: But thanks for believing in the magic.
BEHAR: Next time bring a burka, OK? How do people respond to this puppet, Jeff?
DUNHAM: You know, it`s mixed. As a standup comic, I kind of think if you want to live on the edge -- my best analogy is as a kid, when you were making a map and you were burning the edges to try to make it look old, I think the comic if he wants to push it that way, you are trying to burn the edges enough, and just make sure the paper doesn`t catch on fire. So I find that people that complain about stuff like this, you know, you have to have a good nose for it, you have to know your audience. You have to push it just far enough, and when you push it too far, you get in trouble. But I find that the people online, the people that really complain are used to complaining about what the other 95 percent really want.
BEHAR: That`s interesting. I`ll take a note on that one. It`s lovely to meet you, Akmed.
DUNHAM: It is very nice to meet you.
BEHAR: But you know what? I`m glad you`re dead, OK? Jeff Dunham`s "Controlled Chaos" debuts Sunday at 9:00 p.m. on Comedy Central, and on September 27th it will be out on DVD. Tomorrow, make sure you watch this show when I talk to "Glee" star Jane Lynch. We`ll cover her battles with alcohol and her decision to come out as a lesbian at the age of 32. Don`t miss that.
DUNHAM: Was I just dissed by a Jew?
BEHAR: I`m not Jewish, OK? Take your anti-Semitism and shove it. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
