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Nancy Grace
Bond Granted for Young Mother Who Smothered Newborn Twins
Aired September 21, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Tennessee. EMTs race to a quiet cul-de-sac after the shock of a lifetime. A mom goes into her daughter`s bedroom and finds mixed in with dirty laundry a baby boy just days old, dead. In a bizarre twist, the baby`s twin brother also dead in the same dirty laundry.
In a stunning turn, we learned the 25-year-old daughter not only pregnant but secretly gives birth to twin boys in the family bathroom commode, then smothers them both to death. But then Mommy breaks down in court as her family insists she`s not the bad guy, she`s an all-American girl. Hello? What?
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, Mommy walks free! The same 25- year-old woman who intentionally smothers her baby twin boys to death as soon as they are born so her parents won`t find out, then hides them in a laundry basket turned coffin, double murder of infant twins, and she walks free? Absolutely not!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We may never know exactly why the young mom killed her newborn babies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not only pregnant but secretly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, this is not some teenage girl. This isn`t the prom mom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now free, she will undergo a mental evaluation and mental treatment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gives birth to the twin boys in the family bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These results of these evaluations may determine if Lowe could enter a plea of insanity for the killings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a 25-year-old woman!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then slowly smothers them!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With these young girls, sometimes the pregnancy impacts their hormones, impacts their thinking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gives birth, hides the pregnancy for the entire pregnancy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a person who is so invested in her perfect identity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How on earth can that be more powerful than bringing life into this world?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Cleveland suburbs. A teenage mom vanishes without a trace. Tonight, where is Vivian Buildt and her toddler girl, Hailey?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 1-year-old infant missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 16-year-old mom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Teen mom Vivian Buildt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An endangered missing child advisory.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police trying to find the teen mom and her 1- year-old daughter, Hailey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say they`re endangered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vivian last seen in Ohio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities asking the public for any and all information.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police believe the 16-year-old mom and her 1- year-old daughter are in danger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby Hailey has brown hair and brown eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vivian, 5-foot-5, 120 pounds, with brown hair and brown eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you seen 16-year-old Vivian and 1-and-a-half- year-old baby girl Hailey?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It could be your tip that cracks the case tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Before we go live to Tennessee, I want to thank you, all of you, for all of the phone calls, the e-mails, the kind words. After my first dance on "Dancing With the Stars" last night, my partner, Irishman Tristan MacManus, and I were held in jeopardy. And I will never forget what it felt standing there, waiting to be thrown off after just one dance.
And I promise you, so help me God, come Monday night, we will not let you down with our second dance, the quickstep.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy and Tristan, you`re still in jeopardy. We`ll find out your fate later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Metta and Peta, Nancy and Tristan. On this first week of competition, the couple with the lowest overall combined total and therefore leaving right now is Metta and Peta.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And now we go live, bringing you the very latest in what we believe to be the first degree murder of two infant twins. and the kicker tonight, Mommy is walking free!
Now, Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," it`s my understanding, correct me if I`m wrong, that she actually tells police that she smothers the babies one by one. She was so concerned that her parents would find out she`s pregnant -- this is a 25-year-old woman. This is not a 12-year-old, 13-year-old little girl, a 25-year-old woman. She doesn`t even bother to look to see if they`re boys or girls, that`s how disconnected she is, and that the children were alive. They started crying when she gave birth into the commode.
You know what? Just take it from the beginning, Jean. What happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Nancy, she gave birth on the toilet. That`s exactly what happened. And Nancy, she was so particular with police because she talked about that she started to smother them because they cried and she didn`t want her family to hear the cries. And so she had to keep the hand on the first one a little bit longer because he was crying a little bit louder. Second one didn`t cry as much. And then she left them in the toilet until she got the laundry basket to put them in amongst the dirty clothes.
GRACE: You know, Jean, I can remember when I first heard my twins cry as newborns, and it wasn`t very loud at all. It was almost like a kitty cat mewing. I mean, when they`re first born, it`s not loud at all. I can`t imagine her just putting her hand over their -- over the face until the baby was dead.
What did she tell police she was doing during that time?
CASAREZ: I don`t think she was really saying anything about what she was doing about -- describing that she knew she`d been pregnant. She admitted that. She admitted that she hadn`t gone to a doctor in nine months. That was her choice. And she admitted everything that she did, with particulars.
And the question now is, what was the motive? Was the motive so they wouldn`t cry? Was that the motive? Or she`s engaged, Nancy. She`s been engaged for a while to a long-time boyfriend. So the paternity is being determined at this point of time because those little babies are at the state medical examiner`s office for autopsy. And the question...
GRACE: Jean! Jean!
CASAREZ: ... why.
GRACE: Jean! What do I care about motive as to why she would murder two infant babies just born! Unleash the lawyers...
CASAREZ: Because it shows intent! It shows intent...
(CROSSTALK)
CASAREZ: ... premeditation.
GRACE: ... out of LA, Gloria Allred, attorney, victims` right victim, host of "We the People." San Francisco, renowned attorney John Burris. New York, defense attorney Midwin Charles.
Gloria Allred, as you know, the state doesn`t have to prove motive! And in court, Gloria, the judge asked her, Have you ever had any mental problems? Have you ever had emotional problems? No. None whatsoever. So the state doesn`t have to prove motive, whether she was afraid her parents -- she`s 25 years old, she`s a grown woman -- would hear the baby crying or her fiance would find out she`s pregnant -- I don`t care why she killed them! Unless she`s mentally ill she is responsible for double murder, Gloria!
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, that`s going to be the issue is whether or not she is mentally ill. Before I say anything further, I just have to say you rock, Nancy Grace, on "Dancing With the Stars"! You were fantastic!
Back to the case. Let me just say that this is a difficult case. You may think it`s an easy case, but I think it`s a difficult case because I do want to know what her mental state is and I want to know what her motives were when she did that and why she did it. We know what she did, but why did she do it?
GRACE: Well, hold on! Hold on! Before I go to Burris and Midwin Charles, as if I don`t know what they`re going to say...
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: ... to Tracee Tolentino with CNN affiliate WKRN. Tracee, isn`t it true she went ahead and went about her business as if nothing had happened? When cops came to speak to her at her office -- isn`t she a dental assistant or something like that, at a pediatric dental clinic -- she acted like everything was fine. She greeted them with a big smile. Hey, what`s up, officer? How I can help you?
TRACEE TOLENTINO, WKRN: That`s right, Nancy. She does work at an office, and when police did arrive, she acted like nothing was wrong, everything was normal, and she acted like she didn`t know why that they were there. But I guess when -- I`m told when police did begin questioning her, she did have a demeanor of becoming very sad.
GRACE: So there you go, Burris. How are you going to cobble together a insanity defense out of that?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it doesn`t have to be a complete insanity defense. It could just be one that she didn`t have the necessary mens rea for first degree murder or second degree murder. She could have easily disassociated. This person obviously must have some kind of problems because people don`t normally do this. So I think we`ve got to do a battery of tests...
GRACE: Obviously, because what...
BURRIS: ... tests, determine...
GRACE: ... when a mother commits murder...
BURRIS: ... determine...
GRACE: ... she must be crazy, Burris? Is that what you`re saying?
BURRIS: Well, not always but sometimes. So we don`t know in this case whether that`s true or not. But given her conduct...
GRACE: OK.
BURRIS: I`ve been involved in, like, three of these kinds of cases. And I know that each one of these mamas and mothers have always had some kind of emotional defect that`s taken place here.
GRACE: Yes, well, according to you. Midwin Charles, let`s get -- let`s get down on this. The reality is mens rea, the intent to commit a crime, is what is necessary under the law, not necessarily the intent to commit a murder. For instance, Midwin, if I hold a gun to your head and I pull the trigger and kill you, and I can`t say to cops or to the court of law, Oh, I only meant to scare her, because it`s not the intent to kill that is necessary it is intent to do the act of holding the gun up and pulling the trigger.
Here the issue is, did she have the intent to put her hand over the infant child`s face, mouth, nose and smother it, whether she meant to kill it or not? She did it twice, then hid the children, the dead bodies of two perfectly healthy infant boys, in the laundry basket. Now, am I missing something, Midwin?
MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the facts are that she put her hands over the children`s mouths. So the issue is, did she do that to silence them or to kill them? That`s going to be very helpful to the defense.
GRACE: I just gave you a hypothetical about a gun! It doesn`t matter under the law, Midwin. If she meant to put her hand over the child`s mouth and nose, it doesn`t matter if she meant to quiet it, she killed it. Then she did it again!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When a child is killed within the first 24 hours of birth, there`s a whole category, and this is neonaticide. And this woman by all accounts fits the classic profile of a woman who kills their children within the first 24 hours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-five-year-old Lindsey Lowe lived a seemingly normal life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-five-year-old Lindsey Lowe lived here with her parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lowe`s father discovered a secret she`d been keeping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have any idea that Lindsey was pregnant?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir, we did not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The community is shocked. Her family`s devastated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I just don`t have any further comment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to investigators, the babies` mother...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smothered her twin babies one by one with her bare hands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those children didn`t have a chance at life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So many lives are ruined.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lindsey Lowe became a free woman, out on bond.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We asked that she be held without bond.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How does someone charged two counts of first degree murder get her bond set?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone who testified at her bond hearing said that this girl was as good as it gets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My goodness! What is going on here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: As good as it gets? Other than the two murders of two infant twin boys. You know, we had a case in New York a couple of weeks ago where somebody was paying 180 grand -- $180,000 -- for one baby, some woman that wanted to adopt, $180,000. And this 25-year-old woman, according to police, intentionally smothered her two perfectly healthy baby boy twins in the family toilet!
With me right now -- here`s the kicker. She`s out on bond. She walked free. That`s double murder. And Mommy walks free. With me is Ron Blanton. He`s the assistant district attorney in Sumner County, Tennessee -- that`s Gallatin, Tennessee -- joining us.
Mr. Blanton, thank you for being with us. I got one question. I`ve been told that you fought the bond. Please tell me, Ron, that that is true.
RON BLANTON, ASST. DISTRICT ATTORNEY SUMNER CO. (via telephone): That is true. We absolutely fought the bond. We felt this was a case that was appropriate for no bond. We argued it. You know, the judge had several factors to consider. We felt that the factor of the nature of the crime and the likelihood of conviction was overwhelming. That`s what we argued. However, the judge decided at the end of the hearing to give her bond.
GRACE: Well, Ron Blanton, you`ve been around the block. I`ve checked you out. You`ve tried plenty of cases. Everybody, with me, the assistant district attorney in Sumner County, Tennessee, Gallatin, Tennessee, Ron Blanton, is with me. He fought the bond.
Now, what do you think, viewers? You really think if someone had taken a gun and gunned down two people inside, say, a bank or the Wal-Mart or the Target, that they`d be walking free tonight? No! They would not. They`d be under the jail. They would not have a bond.
Ron Blanton, I`m sure, under the direction of the elected district attorney there, argued for no bond. This is a double murder. Blanton, isn`t it true in your jurisdiction, two bodies -- that equals mass murder, more than one body. That is a death penalty-qualified crime.
BLANTON: More than one death occurring is a qualifier for the death penalty. It`s aggravated circumstances in Tennessee.
GRACE: Let me ask you another question, Ron. In your jurisdiction, Tennessee, is an aggravating circumstance if the victim is a child, the homicide victim is a child?
BLANTON: Yes. Yes, it is, Nancy. A death involving a child under the age of 13 -- that being a child 12 and under and -- is an aggravating circumstances, as long as the perpetrator of that crime was over the age of 18. And here Lindsey was 25.
GRACE: Ron, do you have any children?
BLANTON: I have three boys.
GRACE: Three boys. You remember when they were first born?
BLANTON: Absolutely.
GRACE: You remember the first time you ever heard them cry?
BLANTON: Absolutely.
GRACE: I remember when my twins were born, and we were -- Lucy, my girl, and I were so sick, the two of us were about to die. Baby boy was fine. I remember laying there, so sick I could hardly breathe and my lungs full of blood clots. And I heard them cry. But when this mother heard them cry, according to police, she smothered them.
Ron Blanton, are those the facts as you know them?
BLANTON: According to the affidavit that was filed and the testimony that was presented at the bond hearing, Ms. Lowe stated that when the babies started to cry that she placed her hand over them to prevent her parents from hearing the cries until the babies were dead.
GRACE: Well, her parents describe her as the all-American girl. But from what I`m hearing tonight, she`s got a one-way ticket to hell!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This woman was 25!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-five-year-old Lindsey Lowe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not some teenage girl. This is a...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... 25-year-old...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... woman!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a police affidavit, officers say Lowe confessed that she knowingly and intentionally killed each of her children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twin boys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She never looked to see what sex the baby was.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She put her hand over the child`s mouth, and she stated she kept it there until the child was dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It took less time than the first baby, just a couple of minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kind of hits home about how cold this murder was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Her family describes her as "all-American girl." You know what? I don`t think so! There are two infant twins dead, smothered to death. They`re in the family commode when she gives birth.
I don`t understand, Alexis Weed, why -- she`s 25 years old! I was trying, you know, murders by that point. She was afraid to tell her parents, Hey, I`m pregnant. It was more important that she murder two healthy baby boys than tell her -- than man up and tell her parents, Hey, I got pregnant.
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. That was part of the state`s attorney`s argument in court when she had her bond hearing. They said, you know, This is a 25-year-old woman, this is not a teenager. This was very much a part of their argument for saying she should be held in jail, no bond.
GRACE: So John Burris, what`s her big defense? You know she`s not crazy. She`s not insane. She doesn`t have a mental defect. So what, the defense is, I didn`t want my mommy and daddy to find out I was pregnant?
BURRIS: Well, that`s certainly not going to be a sufficient enough defense. I don`t think...
GRACE: Yes!
BURRIS: ... that she has, like -- like a -- we don`t know what her psychological state is, frankly, at this moment. We won`t know that until after she does some testing. Obviously, it`s very bizarre and peculiar to do this kind of activity for her. So I think more has to be tested in terms of her...
GRACE: Whoa-whoa! Uh!
BURRIS: ... emotional (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: No, no! No, Burris! No! No! You`re not going to sit there...
BURRIS: Yes!
GRACE: ... a veteran trial lawyer, John Burris. I`ve known you I don`t know how many years. I know your background.
BURRIS: A long time, I know.
GRACE: Don`t say "this kind of activity." No! I`m calling you on it. It`s not "this kind of activity."
It is, Caryn Stark, shrink -- it is double murder of two infants that can`t even hold their head up. I`m not going to use euphemisms to make it less than what it is, make it nicer, cleaner, prettier. It ain`t pretty! It`s not nice, all right? Let`s just call it what it is, Caryn Stark.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s murder, Nancy. Do you know -- and I have to mention this -- that when you were on the show and you said -- you know, on "Dancing With the Stars," it`s not about being skinny, it`s not about being the prettiest, it`s having heart? Do you remember that, Nancy?
GRACE: Yes.
STARK: This woman has no heart. This is what a murderer -- she`s no different than a serial killer or somebody who murders their spouse instead of getting a divorce. She`s a criminal. We`re talking about someone who is seriously disturbed.
GRACE: Yet she walks free tonight after murdering two infants, according to police!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Two newborn twin boys dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lindsey is not a monster.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The young woman charged with murdering her babies. Charged with suffocating twin boys.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: By holding her hand over their mouths.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Minutes after giving birth to them.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So her parents would not hear them cry. Disturbing details revealed in a confession to police. Confessed to putting them in a laundry basket in her room, covering them with blanket so no one would find them.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The 25-year-old`s father discovered one of the two dead babies.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A second shocking discovery. The second deceased baby lying right near to the first.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The 25-year-old woman --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Charged with two counts of first-degree murder.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live.
When she appeared in court her family stood up and said she`s an all- American girl. I guess they forgot about the double murder of two infant twin boys perfectly healthy?
Straight to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session". Give me a recap, Jean, for those viewers just joining us and then we`ll go to calls.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, this is a 25-year-old college graduate, still lived at home with her family. Her family wasn`t home that night that she gave birth on the toilet and that`s when she took her hand, put it over the mouth of the first infant until it stopped breathing because she didn`t want it to cry. Then did it to the other one.
Left them in the toilet so she went to the laundry basket, got the laundry basket filled with dirty clothes, and layered the infants in the laundry baskets. Two days later it was her mother that actually found the first dead infant.
GRACE: To Dr. Tamara Kuittinen, joining us from New York, ER physician.
Doctor, thank you for being with us. Doctor Tamara, if you don`t mind me using that name.
DR TAMARA KUITTINEN, M.D., EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: That`s OK.
GRACE: How -- now that`s her story that she very calmly recite to police when they show up at her dental office, and she says oh, hi, officers, how can I help you? Yes, we want to talk to you about the two dead bodies back in your room at home? Then she gives them the story.
But, Doctor, how can the autopsy corroborate or disprove her story?
KUITTINEN: You know, I think it will be a couple of things. The temperature of the children as when they were found or encountered. A little bit more history from her. And injuries that you see on the body.
GRACE: But how can we tell whether they were born, stillborn or whether they were asphyxiated, suffocated, smothered? How can you look at a body and tell that?
KUITTINEN: You may not be able to look but I imagine the autopsy or the medical examiner would be able to see -- look at the lung contents, and so part of the story as it`s been told is that she gave birth to the babies and they were in the toilet. So they may have aspirated some of the toilet water which is horrible.
I mean this is just an atrocious, atrocious story. I mean just imagine the details are very difficult to say what happened exactly. And then also looking at injuries. You know, babies that age are -- I mean all babies are just, you know, incredibly delicate. So bruising patterns, you know, would tell some tales about what may have happened.
GRACE: Let me ask you a couple of quick cross-examination questions, Dr. Tamara Kuittinen.
Number one, when the child is born, if it`s born alive and then murdered, isn`t it true that at autopsy the medical examiner can look at the lungs and determine the child has, in fact, breathed air before?
KUITTINEN: Yes. They may be able to determine that.
GRACE: OK. And number two, with a strangulation, be it manual ligature or an asphyxiation such as a smothering, is it true that the Patiki eye in the eye, the blood vessels in the eye will pop as you try, as you struggle to breathe?
KUITTINEN: It`s true there are signs of asphyxiation if she attempted to strangle one of the babies. There would be marks around the neck, for example, from smothering, covering the face. There would be broken blood vessels in the eye.
GRACE: So it is, in fact, possible for the medical examiner to review the autopsy to look at the bodies and determine whether her story is true or false?
KUITTINEN: It is true. There may -- there will be supporting evidence which supports her story or to track her story.
GRACE: And to Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst, director of Cold Case Squad, Investigative Research Institute and author.
Sheryl, describe what you believe will be key at the murder scene? What are we looking for to put the crime back together again?
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. OF COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: Well, you`re going to look at the timeline. I mean is there any -- you know, rigor mortis, the temperature of the children? And again the injuries. But I`m going to tell you what`s going to be key to me is the concealment, when they were put in there, how they were put in there, the layers, and also the fact that she concealed the pregnancy.
She didn`t seek medical care because that was part of the concealment. This isn`t a postpartum situation. This has been going on for months and months and months. This all shows you her state of mind was to keep this pregnancy from her parent, her fiancee, her friends, her family, right up until the point she had to kill them and hide them.
GRACE: Put McCollum up, please.
Sheryl, you`re absolutely correct. The fact -- you know, I`m hearing the defense lawyers go on and on oh, she`s sick, oh she`s insane. Well, she told the judge she`s not insane. She`s never had a mental defect. She`s never had any emotional problems. Never been treated, not on any medication.
MCCOLLUM: Correct.
GRACE: But what you just said, Sheryl, really jarred me. It`s concealment that lasts for nine months.
MCCOLLUM: Correct.
GRACE: During this time she was going about her business. She was shrouding the truth, hiding it. She was working, she was with her boyfriend. She was with -- around her parents every night.
MCCOLLUM: Yes.
GRACE: Going about her life, waiting for the day --
MCCOLLUM: Yes.
GRACE: -- that she could murder these twins and be done with them.
Well, I got some advice four, little girl. You`re not done with them.
Out to the lines. Elaine in Illinois. Hi, Elaine. What`s your question?
ELAINE, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy, or I should say my dancing queen.
GRACE: Hey, hey, hey, Elaine, I got to tell you. When I was standing on that step with Tristan right behind me and they were about to throw me off, it was between me and Artest, I felt like hot lava had been poured down my whole inside. I will never forget that as long as live.
ELAINE: I bet. But you did great. And I voted as many times as they would let me. They stopped me at a certain point.
GRACE: That`s what my mom said. Thank you.
(LAUGHTER)
ELAINE: But if I can say real quick, I know I have to be brief. But I know I`m really like a small little pebble in the huge ocean of sand you have to do in your life, and I know that`s probably why you haven`t been able to call me back about my problems with my fiancee dying, that`s OK, I understand, but I just was hoping to know if you got, ever received the Zahra Baker poem?
GRACE: You know what, Elaine in Illinois? I do not have your Zahra Baker poem and as a matter of fact there`s news in the Zahra Baker case.
Don`t hang up, Elaine in Illinois, because I want to get your information. One of our producers will talk to you right now on the phone and I`ll go to the next call.
To Dawn in Washington state. Hi, Dawn, what`s your question? Go ahead, Dawn.
DAWN, CALLER FROM WASHINGTON: Hello, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: Dawn, are you there, dear? I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
DAWN: Yes, I have a question. I was wondering if the fiancee the biological father of the twins and if so how is he dealing with all this?
GRACE: Great question.
Alexis Weed, do we know who the father is and has the fiancee given DNA?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s one of the big questions, Nancy. We don`t know who the father is. Although the fiancee did give voluntarily his DNA for testing. Paternity tests are under way right now.
GRACE: You know, Dawn in Washington state, that`s a really good point. Because what if the fiancee is not the bio dad. That could be a reason for concealment. I don`t know that answer yet.
Let`s go to Ron Blanton. He`s the assistant district attorney there in Tennessee, Sumner County, the fought the bond -- people, these are two dead infant boys, she walks free.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Go ahead, dear.
RON BLANTON, ASST. DISTRICT ATTORNEY, SUMNER COUNTY, TENNESSEE, PROSECUTING MOM LINDSEY LOWE: Paternity testing, we don`t know the results of those yet. The testing has been submitted. And so we`re just waiting on those results.
GRACE: OK. Hey, Ron Blanton, another question. I know that you as a state do not have to prove motive. You don`t have to crawl inside her head or any other killer`s head and figure out what they were thinking at the time. But do you have a theory on motive?
BLANTON: Not at this time we don`t. We`re still investigating and, you know, we want to make sure that have all the facts before we --
GRACE: Right. Before you blurt it out on national TV.
BLANTON: That`s correct.
GRACE: OK. Diane in Wyoming, very quickly, dear, what`s your question?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Lowe was placed on suicide watch while in jail and now free to undergo a mental evaluation and mental treatment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometimes the pregnancy impacts their hormones, impacts their thinking.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The results of these evaluations may determine if Lowe could enter a plea of insanity for the killings.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We may never know exactly why the young mom killed her newborn babies.
CASAREZ: Not only pregnant but secretly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now this is not some teenage girl. This isn`t the prom mom.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And now free she will undergo a mental evaluation and mental treatment.
CASAREZ: Gives birth to the twin boys in the family bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The results of these evaluations may determine if Lowe could enter a plea of insanity for the killings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a --
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GRACE: Welcome back. We are live and taking your calls. Before I take you to our next story of a 16-year-old missing girl I want to get back to the calls.
Diane in Wyoming. Hi, I couldn`t hear you. Are you there, Diane?
DIANE, CALLER FROM WYOMING: Yes. Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?
GRACE: Hi, love. I`m good. What`s your question?
DIANE: OK. I`m just very mad at that Lindsey Lowe is walking out free on bond. My question --
GRACE: I am too.
DIANE: Is she walking free because her family looks like they have -- they look like they are pretty well off? Is it because she has money?
GRACE: You know that`s a good question. Let`s go to Gloria Allred, attorney, victims rights advocate, host of "We the People."
Gloria Allred, have you noticed -- I`ve noticed this over the years prosecuting felony crimes that when the crime deals with the death of an infant, very often by a mom, very often you`ll see a plea, voluntary or involuntary probation and counseling.
You see this 25-year-old woman. She`s attractive. She`s got a nice family. The victims are infant children. So she walks free on a bond, Gloria. It`s wrong.
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, Nancy, I think there are other factors, obviously, other than the nature of the crime. Like is she a flight risk and is she a danger to the community?
Apparently the court has found that she`s not a flight risk, she has no prior criminal history, she`s not a danger to the community, in other words not likely to reoffend and go out and some -- murder some other infants.
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GRACE: OK, let me ask you a question.
ALLRED: And so that`s why I think --
GRACE: Let me ask you a question, Gloria.
ALLRED: -- the court found that she is not -- that she could be released.
GRACE: Gloria, can you name me one case, not involving children, that is a double murder where the defendant got a bond?
ALLRED: No, I can`t, Nancy. But I don`t know --
GRACE: Me either.
ALLRED: -- if there is one or isn`t one since I haven`t done a survey.
GRACE: OK. That`s all I wanted to know.
ALLRED: But that -- but they found --
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GRACE: Gloria, come on. Gloria, please. Stop, stop, stop. Because when people are driving away from the courthouse -- I saw this myself -- going home 6:00, 7:00 at night. Gloria Allred is still there on the cell phone working, standing under the stop sign, working, calling clients or calling witnesses. And if you`ve never seen it happen I guarantee you it hadn`t happened in a long time.
Hey, John Burris, try to tell me the truth. Can you name me one case not involving children or infant victims where there is a double murder where somebody gets a bond?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, yes. You can have a bond set for --
GRACE: OK, name one. No, no, I`m asking you to name one.
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BURRIS: I can`t out offhand. I think I can`t offhand. But --
GRACE: OK. Thank you.
BURRIS: Yes.
GRACE: That`s a no. You have? Well, then, when, where?
BURRIS: No, no, it`s not a no.
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BURRIS: It`s just that at the bail -- I can`t the bail is so high you can`t make it. And if it`s $10 million, $5 million you can`t make it. I mean I don`t really --
GRACE: So you`ve never seen a double killer walk free on a bond. Thank you.
OK, Midwin Charles, it`s a yes-no. Have you ever seen -- not involving children or infants -- a double killer, an alleged double killer walk on a bond?
MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I have not seen it but that doesn`t mean it hasn`t happened, Nancy.
GRACE: Me either. Yes, I know maybe somewhere in the history of the world it`s happened. So why now, Ron Blanton? Why? Why is this -- well, you thought it, Blanton. You said no, there`s two dead children hidden in dirty, filthy laundry.
Two, and I want them. I`d like to have two health little boys, little girl twins, anything. But she didn`t want it. She wanted to smother them to death so her parents wouldn`t find out she was ever pregnant. And she was a bad girl? Well, now she`s charged with double murder, Ron.
Why is she walking free tonight? Why is she at home having dinner with mommy and daddy having dinner right now. Why?
BLANTON: Nancy, I can only tell you what the judge`s ruling is. He stated that he considered that she did not have any mental health problems. That these were horrific offenses, that they defy imagination, that he did not find her a danger to the community. Maybe a danger to herself. He said the likelihood of conviction --
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GRACE: Really?
BLANTON: -- was very high.
GRACE: So Blanton, let me ask you something. Have you had any reports that she`s been rushed to the hospital, that she tried to down a bottle of prescription drugs, anything or is she probably at home right now having a nice dinner with her family, not worried about this one bit? You really think she`s going to harm herself?
BLANTON: I can`t speak to that. I know that she`s on supervised bond.
GRACE: You`re wise.
BLANTON: She has to report once a week. She has to --
GRACE: You`re wise, Ron Blanton. You`re very wise.
Out to the lines. Peggy in Florida. Hi, Peggy, what`s your question?
PEGGY, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. First of all, I am a mother of twins and this situation is not -- horrific doesn`t even come to describe it.
GRACE: No, it doesn`t.
PEGGY: I just -- it does not. You know when I found out I was pregnant with twins even though they were unexpected I thought I had won the lottery. And --
GRACE: That`s exactly how I felt. I was so happy when I found out I was going have one baby, then when I found out they were twins, and then I found out they were a boy and a girl, I just -- it was like God heard my prayers and answered them 10,000 times over.
And do you remember, Peggy in Florida, the first time you ever heard them cry? Can you describe that for the viewers?
PEGGY: Absolutely. Absolutely. It was like so hard because I wanted to hold them both, you know? I just couldn`t grab one faster than the other, you know, to keep them from crying. And --
GRACE: So what`s your question, Peggy?
PEGGY: OK. Also I want to tell you, you are our hero especially on that dance floor but you`ve been my hero and for all of my friends forever. You know? You stand up for the victims.
My question is, how could the parents not know -- it almost seems like a Casey Anthony thing. You know, they didn`t know she was pregnant?
GRACE: Good question. How can the parents not know, Caryn Stark start? How did they not know? Or did they know or just that they didn`t want to know?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s it, Nancy, they didn`t want to know. It absolutely makes no sense. Let me ask you something else.
GRACE: I hope those are not pictures of my stomach, Liz, because if they are you are in so much trouble.
OK. Go ahead, Caryn Stark.
STARK: What I was saying is that not only do I wonder about the parents but think about this. She put those babies in the laundry cart. She knew that sooner or later her mother was going to come across it. So it makes no sense that she didn`t know, you know, what she was doing. It`s like it was all about I`m going to think about it tomorrow. I`m going to be at Tara and be playing "Gone with the Wind." This is somebody who has no feelings. Absolutely no feelings.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy Grace and her partner, Tristan MacManus.
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GRACE: It was all just a big, big blur. And I want to thank you so much for your votes. And your calls and your e-mails.
Let`s stop and remember Army Colonel Thomas Felts, Sr., 45, Sandston, Virginia, killed Iraq. The first colonel killed in action in Iraq or Afghanistan. Highly decorated. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, five Army Commendation medals, two National Defense Service medals. University of Richmond grad. Earned a masters in military studies.
Avid reader, loves singing in his church choir, guitar, a good cigar, and talking to his children over meals on Sundays. Favorite sports team, Redskins. Leaves behind brother Bill, sister Katarina, widow Kim. Children Sarah, Rieiana, Rebecca, and T.J.
Thomas Felts, Sr., American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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