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Nancy Grace

Michael Jackson`s Doctor`s Trial: Conrad Murray`s Girlfriends Take Stand

Aired October 04, 2011 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. We are live in Los Angeles for the manslaughter trial of music superstar Michael Jackson`s private doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray, Dr. Murray charged with shooting up the former king of pop with the powerful surgical anesthetic propofol, resulting in Jackson`s death.

The married doctor`s secret love life takes center stage as multiple mistresses are called to the stand. And it`s a bombshell, three girlfriends confirming they got phone calls and text messages from the doctor on the very day Jackson died. One of the girlfriends, a cocktail waitress, is actually on the telephone with Dr. Murray when the doctor realizes Michael Jackson is not breathing. In the background, she hears mumbling, coughing and some kind of commotion.

And in another stunning twist, it`s revealed in court that Jackson`s private doctor orders nearly 300 vials of propofol, FedExing boxes and boxes of the drug to his secret girlfriend, the same drug that ultimately causes the death of music legend Michael Jackson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sade Anding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michelle Bella.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nicole Alvarez.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bridgette Morgan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Murray`s girlfriends take the stand.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes, I did. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you meet him at a social-type club?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Conrad Murray refer to you as his girlfriend?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Then.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Father is Conrad Murray?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The two of you formed a relationship?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were packages addressed to Conrad Murray delivered to your apartment?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One hundred and fifty-five thousand milligrams of propofol.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you speak with Conrad Murray on June 25th of 2009?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. He was on the way to the hospital in the ambulance with Mr. Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said, Hello? Hello?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I realized he was no longer on the phone. I just heard mumbling. And I heard coughing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You, of course, learned that Michael Jackson died, is that correct?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time of death is 12:57.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Bombshell testimony in the Michael Jackson manslaughter trial as multiple secret girlfriends of Dr. Conrad Murray take the stand.

For the very latest, let`s go straight out to "In Session" correspondent Jean Casarez. Jean, you were in court today. Describe what happened.

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Five witnesses altogether. Four out of the five were women. What they all had in common was that they called Conrad Murray or he called them or they texted each other right at the critical hours of June 25th, 2009.

Sade Anding, one of the most critical -- 11:51, she called Conrad Murray. Conrad Murray says at that time, Michael Jackson was under the influence of propofol. Well, she said that she started talking to him, and all of a sudden -- she asked him, How are you? He didn`t respond. There was a pause. She heard a mumbling. It was like his BlackBerry was in the pocket. And all of a sudden, she heard coughing, and that was it. And we know what propofol does. It constricts your lungs.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, there you`re looking at Conrad Murray`s ladies. He`s a real ladies` man. This came out in testimony. Let`s listen to some this extraordinary testimony from Conrad`s women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did it come to be that you actually got to meet Mr. Jackson in person? Did Conrad Murray arrange that for you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he did. It actually was a surprise. I remember him saying he wanted me to meet someone, so I didn`t know where I was going. And that was what happened, and I was speechless when I met him. I couldn`t believe I was meeting Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Conrad Murray take you to Mr. Jackson`s home?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And is that where you met Mr. Jackson?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how much time did you spend with Mr. Jackson when you met him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a brief visit. It was a brief visit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Must have been pretty exciting?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When Conrad Murray called you on June 25th of 2009, it wasn`t anything extraordinary or unusual, was it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Hello? It`s Conrad Murray. And he said, How are you doing? And I said, Hello, how are you doing? I`m doing fine. I haven`t talked to you in a while. How are you? And then that`s when he said, Well -- and I was -- and then he didn`t say anything. He just paused. And then that`s when I said, Well, let me tell you about my day, and I started telling him about my day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did he respond back to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. That`s when I realized he was no longer on the phone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you mean by that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I was just talking, and the next thing, you know, I was, like -- I said, Hello? Hello? And I didn`t hear anything. And that`s when I pressed the phone against my ear, and I heard mumbling of voices. It sounded like the phone was maybe in his pocket or something. It was -- and I heard coughing. And nobody answered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that is Houston cocktail waitress Sade Anding. The three other women who testified in rapid succession, reportedly former exotic dancers.

So I want to go out to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, a former friend and spiritual adviser to Michael Jackson. What do you make of this bevy of women? Clearly, Dr. Conrad Murray has a type. The woman you`re looking at right here, Nicole Alvarez, who also took the stand today, is what some call in the media and have called his "baby mama." She testified.

What do you make of this collection of women, Rabbi?

RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, FMR. FRIEND AND SPIRITUAL ADVISER: Well, Jane, the face of American greed is no longer Gordon Gecko, it is now Conrad Murray. It`s astonishing. We`re now seeing this doctor absolutely had a price. And he`s not a ladies` man. A ladies` man is someone who has some relationship with ladies. He`s a misogynist. He`s someone who hates women. He plays them up against each other. He uses them constantly when and if he`s interested in them, when it suits his own needs and purposes. They all exist simultaneously. That`s a form of contempt toward women. This is man of very low character, obviously.

But the most -- the great irony of this and the tragedy of it, Jane, is that Michael once said to me that he started his career as a small boy playing in these nightclubs with the Jackson Five, where there were exotic dancers, strippers. And it gave him, like, a low view of sexuality, of even the relationship between men and women, because as a child, the first thing he witnesses is that women will do all this for money.

That the end of his life now the circle closes with this collection of exotic dancers who are on the phone with his doctor as he`s struggling to breathe -- this couldn`t be scripted. This is unbelievable. It`s shocking. It`s repulsive. It`s loathsome. And whether Conrad Murray is guilty or innocent, he is a man of extremely low character.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think you make a real good point that it`s kind of Shakespearean, the drama and the tragedy of all of this.

Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, you have Nicole Alvarez, his so-called baby mama on the stand. She`s the one who`s wearing the sleeveless top with the very buffed arms. And she is an actress and reportedly a former exotic dancer. But she is a witness from the prosecution.

There`s a saying from Shakespeare, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." We`ve heard testimony that he`s talking to other women, that he`s on the phone with other girls. And yet she doesn`t seem very angry at him. She actually continues to live with Dr. Conrad Murray. And at certain points in the testimony today, she became almost a hostile witness for the prosecution, sparring with the prosecutor purportedly to defend her boyfriend, Dr. Conrad Murray.

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Right. Well, first of all, I want to say I couldn`t agree more with the rabbi. He`s just exactly right on this. This is a person of very low character. And all of these women are competing for him like he`s a prize, and she`s got the baby, so she`s the winner because she`s got the one that is going to get her the money down the road because he`s going to have to do child support.

It`s a really conscienceless and morality-less way of living. And all of these people are just in it for the star glam of it, and it`s a terrible way to live. I feel sorry for those children that he`s given birth to who don`t have stable homes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, to that point, the child that he had with the woman there in the sleeveless top, Nicole Alvarez -- that`s the seventh of his children. By the way, he is still married. He is still married, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline. What do you know about this bevy of women? What can you tell us?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Well, it seems like the women -- despite what you were saying, I don`t know they all knew about each other. Dr. Conrad Murray ran a pretty big scam. You know, he had a phone that he was constantly on, and he was keeping the women very separated. He had women in Vegas, women in Houston, women in Los Angeles. He was able to juggle all these women and take care of Michael Jackson, although he really didn`t take very good care of him.

So he definitely was a con man for all these women. They didn`t know about each other. And Nicole, who isn`t mad now -- you know, she`s an actress. She wants to be famous. This was apparently, you know, an audition for her today. She was smiling in front of the camera. She was laughing. This was really a show that she put on without realizing that somebody lost their life. And it`s very serious, and her boyfriend and the father of her child could actually go to jail for this. So it`s really surprising that...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ian Drew...

TERESZCUK: ... all these women that are just...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... senior editor, "Us Weekly" -- and you`ve interviewed Michael Jackson in the past. I think a lot of people thought it was very inappropriate that she is smiling and giggling, actually giggly, at testifying. And yet the family of Michael Jackson is sitting there in court! They are grieving the loss of their loved one!

IAN DREW, "US WEEKLY": Yes. I mean, this kind of sycophantic behavior always surrounded Michael. From my experiences, these people get very close to him, either as doctors or business advisers or lawyers, and then they bring in other people. It`s almost a calling card to say, Look, look who I`m close to. Look who you can meet. And they use this to sort of lure people like Conrad Murray has lured these women. I mean, this is one of the grosser effects of fame being displayed here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Denise, Illinois. Your question or thought, Denise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, Richard (ph), I love you. You`re my rock star. Here`s my question. Michael Jackson has been doing -- abusing drugs for years, as you know. And I`m just wondering, couldn`t that have a play in his death, as well, instead of focusing, focusing -- No, he shouldn`t have given him the propofol, but he did. But how do you know...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Brian Oxman, attorney for Joe -- I got you, and you make a good point. Brian Oxman, attorney for Joe Jackson, you know the Jackson family. What about the caller`s point?

BRIAN OXMAN, JOE JACKSON`S ATTORNEY IN CIVIL SUIT: It seems that Michael did have an abuse of medications, and we`ve acknowledged that fact. But what happened here, Jane, is that this was fed to him. It was shipped from Las Vegas to an unregistered location in Santa Monica. And that girl got up on the stand today, laughed and giggled when she helped that commission of DEA violations.

I`m sorry, Jane, it is disgusting, it is pathetic to ship these drugs in interstate commerce and then for her to giggle about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am an actress with the Screen Actors Guild since 1998.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And where were you working in June and May of 2009?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was acting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Describe for me, please, what you were doing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, as a professional actress, my daily duties consist of maintaining my instrument, going on several castings throughout town, meeting with different casting directors, and continuing to study and refine my craft.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you refer to an instrument, what are you referring to?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Myself. As an actor, your instrument is yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The women in Conrad Murray`s life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michelle Bella.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sade Anding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nicole Alvarez.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take center stage in the trial of Michael Jackson`s death.

911 OPERATOR: He`s unconscious. He`s not breathing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he`s not breathing, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Conrad Murray was treating Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s Michael Jackson.

911 OPERATOR: Did anybody witness what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just the doctor, sir. The doctor`s been the only one here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said, Hello? Hello? And I didn`t hear anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I hooked up the EKG, it was flat-lined.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is the room where I seen Mr. Jackson lay dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard (INAUDIBLE) and I heard coughing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Propofol can cause severe breathing collapse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was in the ambulance with Mr. Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, emergency response was on the scene immediately?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to call it here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: However, it was too late.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time of death is 12:57.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was clinically dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About five or six minutes into the telephone call, you realize that he had not been saying anything back to you? Do I have that right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you told us that you pressed the phone closer to your ear, and you heard sounds that made you think that the phone might be in his pocket or something?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And describe the coughing sounds that you said that you heard, please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The coughing sounds I heard was more of...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that could very well be the moment when Michael Jackson either died or began dying -- explosive testimony in the Michael Jackson death trial today. And we heard from a bevy of women who have been kind of grouped together as Dr. Conrad Murray, the defendant`s, ladies.

But is that really fair, Richard Herman? Now, Sade Anding, the last woman you heard from there, the one who heard the cough when the phone dropped -- he did refer to her as his girlfriend, but she also said that she hadn`t talked to him in a while. Now, he is also married, while he has a, quote, unquote, "baby mama," but the wife has not appeared in court. So are we really being fair, Richard Herman?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, first, let`s wish the dancing queen good luck tonight with her dancing (INAUDIBLE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course. Yay, Nancy! You can win this thing! Go ahead.

HERMAN: All right. Now, Jane, this is so ridiculous. You know, just like in the Casey Anthony coverage, people are losing track of the case here. They`re losing track of the gross negligence.

The issue here is not these women. It`s not if he gave him her phone number, if he met them in a social club. This is all irrelevant. It`s meaningless! All of this -- when the jury goes and deliberates, they will not be thinking about these three or four women who testified today. This has nothing to do with the case, Jane.

Everything to do with this case is how much propofol killed Michael Jackson? Who delivered that fatal dose? And whether or not this jury will believe Conrad Murray, who, in my opinion, must testify in this case? Will they believe him?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, that`s...

HERMAN: That`s what this case is about.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s interesting because I`d love to see that cross-examination.

But Bill Sheaffer, former prosecutor and WTFV legal analyst, essentially, Richard Herman is saying that clustering these women and putting them on the stand in rapid succession could backfire. Now, the judge said he did not want to make this case a referendum on either Dr. Conrad Murray`s lifestyle or Michael Jackson`s lifestyle. But obviously, the prosecution was trying to send a message to the jury, Look at these women. This guy has a type. He`s a ladies` man, Bill.

BILL SHEAFFER, WFTV LEGAL ANALYST: Look, I`m going to have to agree with Richard, and I very seldom do. But he`s absolutely right. Look, I don`t want to see Conrad Murray convicted because he`s a person of low character. I want to see him convicted because he was grossly negligent in the care of his patient. Let`s get on with the real evidence and get the bimbos off the witness stand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Murray did ask me try to save Mr. Michael Jackson`s life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His skin was very cool to the touch. His eyes were open. They were dry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The resuscitation efforts would likely be futile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did unlawfully and without malice kill Michael Joseph Jackson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To keep our eye on the ball, this is the sweet spot for the prosecution, right, Murray ordering all this propofol?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not only his relationships, but again, what he was doing when Michael Jackson was passing away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A bevy of women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am an actress with the Screen Actors Guild since 1998.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you`re preparing a witness, does she act the way that you want her to act?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you`re a jury, you`re thinking, Wait a minute. You had this stuff shipped to your girlfriend`s apartment?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The propofol was dropped at her apartment complex, and often left in the common area.

Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace. And we are getting a portrait of Dr. Conrad Murray, the defendant in the Michael Jackson death trial, as somebody who was rather reckless, at least according to the testimony.

Dr. Cathleen London, attending physician at New York Presbyterian Hospital, assistant attending physician, we heard today that he had propofol, a surgical knockout drug, shipped to his girlfriend`s home, and it was left in the common area where anybody could get ahold of it. How dangerous could that potentially be?

DR. CATHLEEN LONDON, NEW YORK PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL: Extraordinarily dangerous. I mean, it`s a drug that needs to be only sent to a hospital or a clinic setting. And even the pharmacist thought that`s where it was going. This is a drug that isn`t supposed to given outside of a very controlled environment, with monitoring, with people around that can do resuscitation. So to have it just laying out there is unbelievably reckless.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marc Harrold, former officer, Atlanta PD, it would seem the prosecution`s argument that Dr. Conrad Murray acted more like an employee and less like a doctor is really proven in the prosecution`s case, especially when it comes to sort of doing errands for Michael Jackson.

Michael Jackson wanted this cream, right, to treat his vitiligo, which we know he did have. But Dr. Conrad Murray goes to this pharmacist and says he has a lot of patients with vitiligo, and this is going to be a trial. And he`s kind of fudging his story in order to get his hands on all of this Benaquin (ph) cream for vitiligo for Michael Jackson.

MARC HARROLD, ATTORNEY, FMR. OFFICER, ATLANTA PD: Yes. I think that one of the things that the testimony today was about was about showing that this doctor was in the care of Michael Jackson not for his best interests but because he was kind of star-struck. He was impressing women with Michael Jackson. And these errands that he`s running, I agree, he`s more like an employee. He`s not playing his role as a physician, where he`s using his expertise to treat Michael Jackson. He`s sort of part of his posse, sort of a hanger-on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson literally put his life in the hands of Conrad Murray.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you in fact meet Mr. Jackson?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I couldn`t believe I was meeting Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who introduced you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Murray. I was extremely interested because it was Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not a case of too little too late.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The resuscitation efforts would likely be futile.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems like a case of too late.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he arrived, he was clinically dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Murray was not able to give me the time or the time interval.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he wanted to share information he would do it on his own.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Time was not on Mr. Jackson`s side.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was speechless. It was Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Conrad Murray send you a text on June 25th of 2009?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you recall receiving a voice mail message from Conrad Murray on June 16th of 2009?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, NANCY GRACE, CNN, HOST: Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace tonight. Extraordinary day in the Michael Jackson death trial. A bevy of stunning women who are all a similar type in looks take the stand in rapid succession and they testify essentially that Dr. Conrad Murray was in communication with them at a time when he was supposed to be watching his superstar client, Michael Jackson, who ultimately died on his watch.

Randy Kessler, defense attorney, we`ve been focusing on oh well they`re exotic dancers, they`re waitresses, et cetera, but leave all that aside, he was communicating when he should have been watching his patient.

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, maybe, but does that mean he committed gross negligence or criminal negligence. I mean, I feel like I`m watching the Conrad Murray divorce trial. This sounds and feels and smells and tastes sort of like a civil case. Credibility. He`s a bad guy. He`s not a good guy.

They should get to the facts. It feels a little desperate on the state`s part that they`re trying to bad mouth him and alienate the jury against him whereas the real question is, did he commit gross negligence that was criminal in nature? They have to get to the facts. Bring on the doctors. Let`s find out if he did what was medically appropriate or not and let`s get to it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Donna, Arizona, your question, your thought, Donna.

DONNA: Hi, Jane. Thank you for all the work you do for animals. I certainly appreciate that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you. Thank you. I`m so happy to hear that.

DONNA: You`re welcome. One was, I just wondered, when I watch this with Conrad Murray, I`m amazed that he`s a doctor and I wondered if anyone has thoroughly investigated his credentials because he -- it`s -- because of the things that he seems so irresponsible with. And, the second question was is it typical for someone who`s been given a heavy sedative or, in this case, Propofol, to die with their eyes open?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s a very interesting question. Let`s hit Dr. Cathleen London with that first question.

CATHLEEN LONDON, ASSISTANT ATTENDING PHYSICIAN NEW YORK PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, WEILL CORNELL COLLEGE: The -- about the first question which is whether he has been investigated to his license? To my knowledge, yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, no, what I meant was do you die when you OD from Propofol with your eyes open?

LONDON: It can go either way. I mean, his -- often in anesthesia they actually close their eyes to protect them from drying out, so, the -- it`s not a normal sleep like when you`re going to get into a REM sleep where you`re going to close your eyes yourself. So, Propofol sleep isn`t a real sleep which also begs the question if he was treating Michael Jackson for insomnia why is he using a drug that isn`t going to give him restful helpful sleep? So, there`s so many things, you know.

To the attorneys who are saying, well, these girlfriends are -- are irrelevant except that he was supposed to be watching his patient. He was giving him the most powerful sedative you can give that is only supposed to be in controlled environments and he wasn`t paying attention. He was on the phone, he was texting. It`s unbelievable to me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And texting and talking to these women who are distracting, let`s face it. Jean Casarez, to the other question that the caller asked. What is happening with Dr. Conrad Murray in terms of his licenses to practice?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we learned that in testimony today because at the relevant time, which was June 25, 2009, Tim Lopez, who owned Applied Pharmacy Services, who is the one that sent all that Propofol to Dr. Murray said he looked him up and he had a valid medical license, he was registered by the DEA, meaning he could write prescriptions for controlled substances, and he had no restrictions on his Nevada license.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, now, he is not allowed to practice in California as this trial is underway, correct Jean?

CASAREZ: As a condition of bail, he is not able to practice in California. He can still practice in Nevada or Texas, though, up until this point of the trial and up to the point of whether he is convicted or not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let`s talk about this whole defense theory that a quote/unquote "desperate Michael Jackson" self-administered the overdose, the fatal dose. I want to go out to Alexis Teresczuk, because you apparently have some new information that could cast some doubt on that defense. What is it?

ALEXIS TERESCZUK, RADARONLINE.COM, REPORTER: Well, we learned exclusively that Michael Jackson`s fingerprints are not anywhere on any of the vials that were found in his room. We spoke with a source close to the investigation. They did tests. His fingerprints are nowhere to be found. So that really just blows a hole in the defense`s theory, that he self- administered it. How could he do it without leaving fingerprints? But, Michael Jackson, yes, he wore the glove but I don`t think he was wearing it that day at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Brian Oxman, what do you say to that?

BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY SPOKESMAN AND ATTORNEY: I say absolutely on the money because there is no way that Michael Jackson self-administered this drug. You know something, Jane, what we did hear in opening arguments is that Michael Jackson`s stomach concentrations had a lot of the drug Ativan in it. This is a controlled substance in it. It`s different than Propofol.

You`ve got to have it in a locked cabinet. You cannot ship it in interstate commerce to an unregistered location, which is what Dr. Murray did. And, if Michael Jackson had access to that drug, it`s --it`s such gross negligence, it`s reckless because you`ve got to have it locked up. And the defense, seems to me, to be shooting itself, well, you can tell me where they`re shooting theirselves.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rabbi Schmuley Boteach, one of the points that I`ve been making over the course of this trial, which is moving at lightening speed, is that as a lay person, I can very easily get confused by milligrams and milliliters and all sorts of medical jargon and when we get to the defense case, do you suspect that they`re going to try to confuse the jury by making the medical aspect of this case incredibly complicated, which won`t be that tough and in confusion there will be reasonable doubt.

RABBI SCHMULEY BOTEACH: Well, not only is there confusion with regards to the prescription drug medication and the quantities. I mean, Jane, my head is spinning from the amount of women that appeared in a single day. But, what the jury is certainly going to conclude and what our learned lawyers on this panel are forgetting that the jury are lay people like me.

What the jury is certainly going to conclude is that Michael Jackson was a troubled soul who could not even sleep at night. He was very nervous about these upcoming concerts, which represented his comeback and he trusted his life into the care of a physician who was being paid a mountain of money to insure that he was healthy and, instead, he uses Michael to create a harem.

I mean to literally bring in all these women, cheat on his wife, get a date and while Michael is struggling to breathe he`s calling them in quick succession. I mean, if that isn`t the case for gross negligence, then it has no meaning. I`m actually surprised that so many of the learned lawyers on this panel who are saying that none of this matters, let us not forget this trial is being televised for goodness sake.

This isn`t just a legal question of liability. This is a morality tale now that all of America is watching. We all want to be rich and famous. It`s the great American dream and, Michael, that never brought him happiness. He wanted credibility. He wanted his message to be taken seriously and he was depressed because it wasn`t. And the fact that it could now end with all of this tawdry stripper stuff, yet again, and -- and a doctor who`s hanging out in these clubs, dropping Michael`s name to get dates and talking to them while his patient is struggling to breathe is beyond belief.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Andrew, Senior Editor US Weekly. You`ve interviewed Michael Jackson. Do you agree with the Rabbi that it`s a very ironic full circle that poor little Michael Jackson, when he was a kid, had to go to these clubs where he saw all sorts of inappropriate behavior for his age and now in the end he is sort of surrounded in the same milieu that he started out in.

ANDREW JOHNSTON, SENIOR EDITOR, US WEEKLY: Absolutely. I mean, obviously, it -- it -- it`s tragic that it is ending in this way and his legacy is not totally being remembered just by his musical talent. Luckily, there`s a Cirque de Soleil show being launched right now and there`s a tribute show coming up.

But, he did love attention at the same time so I have to say he`s getting a lot of attention but not quite in this way. I do agree with the Rabbi on that.

(VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was going to be expecting shipments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson trusted his life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They would be coming to your apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The medical skills of Conrad Murray.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You should be on the lookout for them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That misplaced trust had far too high a price to pay.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A parade of girlfriends out there on the stand. We see Michelle Bella, Sade Anding, Nicole Alvarez.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Dr. Murray tell you that he was acting as Michael Jackson`s personal physician?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, he`s using his relationship with Michael Jackson to get all these women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said hello, hello.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About four times?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard mumbling of voices (INAUDIBLE) and I heard coughing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he respond back to you. No. That`s when I realized he was no longer on the phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She described what may have been the moment that Michael Jackson died.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He should be here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At least when Conrad Murray discovered that he had a problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why was it so important in that moment?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson`s in distress.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For you to be talking to these women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That it was negligent of the doctor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gross negligence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rather than caring for your patient.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you speak with him, Conrad Murray, on June 25th of 2009?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you recall the conversation?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was it a brief conversation?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did he tell you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember him telling me I -- that he was on the way to the hospital in the ambulance with Mr. Jackson and for me not to be alarmed because that he didn`t want me to be worried because he knew that it would -- I would learn this through the news .

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you would be upset.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is absolutely extraordinary. Dr. Conrad Murray, the defendant`s, girlfriend testifying that on the way to the hospital in the ambulance he`s calling her even though paramedics had wanted to declare Michael Jackson dead at the house he insists, no, no, no, we can do something to revive him, let`s not give up. But, on the way to the hospital instead of trying to revive him he`s on the phone with his girlfriend. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, what does that say to you from a psychological standpoint about this guy?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Jane, I could not disagree with the lawyers tonight more. You`re looking at somebody who shows a consistent pattern from a characterological and psychological perspective of reckless disregard. He`s sloppy, he`s reckless, he`s a compulsive risk taker. He`s a gambler with what`s appropriate.

He had drugs shipped incorrectly, not according to protocol. He used them inappropriately in a setting in which he shouldn`t without monitoring them. I know a vet who does house calls who would never use Propofol without a vet tech assistant and a heart monitor on the dog. Never mind Mr. Jackson, it`s scandalous that he did that.

And, having all these women on the stand is a direct testimony to his reckless character. He`s juggling multiple women, multiple relationships, multiple children and he`s married and has kids and a wife at home. That shows a character pattern of reckless disregard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And a complicated life can get very messy and it can bleed over into your work and when things are really going bad and you`re on the phone all the time, that is going to impact your work. I want to go to Richard Herman, defense attorney, because here`s another thing that`s just -- I found astounding about his behavior according to this testimony is that he is absolutely desperate and frantic to revive Michael Jackson someway somehow even though the paramedics, and then later the emergency room doctors, are like, he`s flatlined.

We can`t really do anything. He`s no, no, no, let`s save him. But, he doesn`t do the one thing that he should do if he`s really intent on saving Michael Jackson, is tell the truth. Tell them that he gave him Propofol. He is hiding the truth even as he claims to be desperately trying to save him.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: In the end, Jane, that`s going to be meaningless. When Dr. Murray walked back into the room, Michael Jackson was flatlined and dead and that`s going to be the testimony. And who`s saying that he had to monitor Michael Jackson? Just because the prosecution is saying that, that`s meaningless as well. Dr. White, the defense medical expert will tell you that 25 mg that Dr. Murray injected was barely enough to put Michael asleep. It lasted four to seven minutes and it was out of his system. If the doctor was prescribing Xanax or Valium to go to sleep, the doctor doesn`t have to sit there and monitor someone when they sleep. It`s out of (INAUDIBLE) the Propofol is out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Richard Herman, he ordered the equivalent of four gallons plus of Propofol, enough Propofol to bathe in and, yet, this is 25 mg. So, he`s contending that he only gave him this much. Here`s a guy who was not put out by a whole bunch of other drugs and keeps saying I need to get to sleep and you`re asking me to believe that his response is to only give him this much when he`s purchased a vat full of it?

HERMAN: Yes, Jane, because the order was put in before that tape recording where he saw the state of Michael strung out on Demerol. Jane, we know Michael was doing Propofol since the 80s. In `93 he was an admitted substance abuser to pain killers. Now, Conrad Murray find -- finds him addicted to Demerol. And, I mean, who knows the whole -- he had no veins in his arm, Jane. When`s the last time you saw an IV in someone`s ankle? Come on, this guy was in very, very bad shape.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All the more reason, Brian Oxman, and you`ve known the Jackson family for years, all the more reason not to pump him full of drugs. One Google search would have revealed ..

OXMAN: All the more reason. All the more reason.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: .that he had a history of substance abuse. Right.

OXMAN: Jane, that is absolutely right. My goodness gracious. You have here a doctor, and the whole setup involving Michael Jackson`s last days of people who are just drugging him. This is wrong, Jane. It is -- it is not only immoral it is illegal. You can`t drug somebody to death and that`s exactly what happened here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, and let me say this, OK, this is how much Dr. Conrad Murray said he gave Michael Jackson, 25 mg, a capful. But the autopsy showed that Michael Jackson had enough Propofol in his system to do major surgery. So, Jean Casarez, the defense is asking us to believe that Michael Jackson self-injected, somehow, the remainder, the amount to do major surgery minus this.

However, the -- the bottles are only this big so after he gave himself the first bottle wouldn`t he have keeled over and be unable to give himself another bottle?

CASAREZ: You know, I`ll tell you something, I was in the courtroom when the jury saw the bottle that was in the saline bag which we believe was the bottle of Propofol that killed Michael Jackson. It was a pretty big bottle and when you look at self-ingesting, he couldn`t have drank it. I don`t see how he did that. But, could he have taken that needle that Dr. Conrad Murray had taken out and put it back in his ankle? Because, that`s where the needle was, the ankle.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I still don`t understand how, if the bottles are this big, you cannot give the amount that he had in his system with one bottle, how is he supposed to, and I`ll throw this at Alexis Teresczuk, how is he supposed to give himself all this Propofol because wouldn`t he have been knocked out before he would have been able to give himself all this Propofol?

TERESCZUK: Absolutely. And the thing is, as I`ve said, he didn`t give it to himself. There was no evidence that he did give it to himself. That`s a story that the defense is spinning. But, you know what, the evidence is going to say that that is not true. Michael Jackson`s fingerprints were not on the bottles, they weren`t anywhere, and it didn`t happen.

(VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m an innocent man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had given Michael Jackson a total of 4 mg of lorazepam, is that accurate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lidocaine, diazepam, lorazepam.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s hiding a huge vat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And no mention of Propofol?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, why are you hiding the -- the Propofol if you only gave 25 mg?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Congratulations to our very own Nancy Grace for her moving performance last night on Dancing With The Stars. Nancy and her partner, Tristan MacManus did a beautiful waltz to her favorite and most meaningful song, Moon River. Nancy looked stunning. Way to go Nancy. You can win this thing. Check this out.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dancing the waltz, Nancy Grace and her partner Tristan MacManus.

(MUSIC)

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Amazing, Nancy, amazing. Tonight, let`s stop to remember Marine Lance Corporal Richard James, 20 years old from Seaford, Delaware. He was killed in Iraq. He was awarded the Purple Heart, the Combat Action Ribbon, and the National Defense Service Medal and was on a second tour of duty. He loved playing the guitar, sports, and his Chevy truck. He is remembered as always being the center of attention.

He leaves behind parents Jack and Carol, his grandfather Ken, his sister Tina, and his brothers Jeffrey and Jonathan. Richard James, a true American hero. Thank you to all our guests and thanks to you at home. See you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern, right here. Until then, have a safe evening and you can do it, Nancy. You can win this thing, way to go.

END