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Nancy Grace
Search Continues for Baby Lisa
Aired October 11, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight in the search for a 10-month-old baby girl kidnapped from her own crib in the dead of night in America`s heartland. The family goes to sleep while Daddy works the night shift. Then he comes home to find the crib empty and baby Lisa gone, the front door unlocked, a window open, the family`s cell phones missing.
And now, in a bombshell development tonight, baby Lisa`s aunt says she believes cops will arrest the mother -- will arrest the mother. And it`s all as reports surface there`s secret surveillance video of baby Lisa`s mom at a local grocery store with a mystery man just hours before her 10-month- old is last seen in her crib. Investigators now scouring a vacant lot just a half mile from baby Lisa`s home, where search teams discover a well hidden under a deck.
Tonight, what happened to baby Lisa?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please! Bring her home!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s out there. She`s somebody`s daughter somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The latest search, a lot of people here searching for Lisa Irwin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If all you did was put your child to bed and go to sleep and the child disappears.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did she or did she not fail a polygraph?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t know anything more because your child was abducted and you haven`t got a clue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No suspects, no leads.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing we know is that this 10-month-old belongs in this house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby`s mother, Deborah Bradley, was the last person to see Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone suggested they check the old well or cistern. Firefighters went down into the well about 30 feet deep.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If something happened in the home and you were responsible, then you do know more.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she put her daughter to bed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The home here is the one you see right behind me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI began their investigation focusing on baby Lisa`s bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives simulated what may have happened, someone crawling through a window and snatching the girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you have any, any tips at all, no matter how small, make a call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want them to bring Lisa back here now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. Stunning developments tonight out of Kansas City, Missouri, in the search for 10-month-old baby Lisa, reported missing from her own crib in the dead of night.
For the very latest, let`s go straight to CNN correspondent Ed Lavandera, who is live on the scene in Kansas City, Missouri -- Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jane. Well, the focus of today was really the search about -- less than about a half mile away from where we are in this neighborhood here in Kansas City where baby Lisa was abducted now more than a week ago. But police said they got a tip about a well behind an abandoned house. And then from there, firefighters and police detectives descended on the house, a group of about 25 or so. They cordoned off a street and they started digging into this well.
They had to bring in these tanks to remove the water that was in it. And all of this took about four hours. And after doing all of that, police came out simply to announce that they didn`t find anything in that well. So another disheartening day as the search for this little baby girl continues, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to go to Edith Caray, who lives near the vacant home that was searched by cops. Tell us about this area because we understand that this home has been vacant for a number of years and that a tip did lead authorities there. What is it about this area that they searched that is suspicious, Edith?
EDITH CARAY, LIVES NEAR SEARCH LOCATION (via telephone): Well, I know that the home has been empty for several years, and I had no idea who the owner was or anything like that. But the brush around the home had grown up so bad that you really didn`t even know that there was a home, let alone especially a deck on the back.
But the brush has been cleared away probably at least a month. And so when I heard the sirens and the helicopters overhead, then everybody was around, I knew then that they must be searching for the baby Lisa.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And unfortunately, they did not find any concrete evidence of anything. This is a desperate search. I want to go to Joe Gomez, reporter, KTRH News Radio. Of all the new developments that are, wow, really bizarre, I think the most bizarre is that investigators reportedly got or went to get surveillance video from a nearby grocery store that shows the mother of the missing girl shopping with a mystery man. What do you know, Joe Gomez?
JOE GOMEZ, KTRH RADIO: That`s right, Jane. This is very strange. I mean, only hours before baby Lisa was reportedly abducted, Mommy is at this nearby grocery store with this strange man who is not, by the way, not baby Lisa`s father. She`s at this grocery store with this strange man, purchases a box of wine, you know, several jars of baby food, baby wipes and then leaves.
Now police are trying to figure out, apparently, who this strange guy was and why in the world did Mommy buy a box of wine? Hours later -- hours later, Jane, baby Lisa is allegedly snatched from her crib and Mommy is buying a box of wine! Very strange here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. However, Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, if you think about it, if you were going to do anything untoward to your child, why buy baby wipes and baby food? I think it`s very exonerating, although you`ve got to wonder why she`s off buying a box of wine with a mystery man. Marc Klaas.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Sure. Jane, if the mom told the police that she had gone to that supermarket and made those purchases, there`s nothing strange about that at all. And certainly, buying wine -- there`s absolutely nothing strange about people buying wine. People all over America buy wine all the time.
I think there`s some much more troubling aspects of this case than that, depending on how that whole scenario plays out. But the whole idea that she told people that the police told her that she had failed a lie detector test -- now there are people within the family saying that the mother is expecting to be arrested -- these send terrible, terrible messages.
The whole idea that the father last week decided he was tired of taking -- tired of being interrogated, while there are dozens if not hundreds of cops from multi-jurisdictional agencies going into wells, going into sewers, going into drainage ditches, beating the brush, doing everything they can, giving up their time to look for this little girl is also very, very troubling.
That`s why a week later, the police still are focused on this family.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Marc Harrold, former cop, Atlanta PD, attorney and author of "Observations of White Noise," I wouldn`t think anything of anybody getting some wine, although I`m a recovering alcoholic. If you`re in recovery, you shouldn`t be getting any wine. I have no idea what this woman`s situation is. There`s no indication that she is.
However, given that her child, her precious baby, disappears several hours later, I would certainly be curious to know who is this mystery man that she is allegedly purportedly getting wine with? What happened to the wine? Did they drink a box of wine? And could that be the reason why if there was an intruder who barged in her window, which is what she claims, leaving the screen basically pushed in, turning on all the lights and walking out with the child -- is it possible that she didn`t hear or see any of this because she was passed out, Marc?
MARC HARROLD, FMR. OFFICER, ATLANTA PD: Yes, I mean, all of those are factors. I agree with Marc Klaas. There`s nothing really suspicious about going out and buying the wine and the other things she bought.
What I`d want to know is whether she included that in the chronology that she gave to the police. When the initial investigator talked to her, did she talk about this trip? Did she talk about who this man is? If she didn`t include the trip and it`s fairly close proximity to the time the child appears to have disappeared, it`s very relevant.
I don`t think what she bought or the fact that she made the trip is all that suspicious, but it is possible anytime somebody`s child disappears, anytime somebody is not aware of something going on in the home where they are, you have to look at the fact, is there is some factor that made them less aware, and alcohol can be that factor.
So I think these are things that need to be discussed. They need to be fleshed out. But I agree with Marc, just the fact that she bought it is not really suspicious. Did she tell the police about it? And who`s that man?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Randy Kessler, defense attorney, does this mom need to lawyer up?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. I mean, we`re talking about her as a potential suspect. The whole world`s thinking about her. Maybe she did it, maybe she didn`t do it, but I mean, what`s sad to me is how often family members are involved. And if there`s that general prejudice or bias or leaning to look suspiciously at the mom, absolutely, she should have a lawyer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, John Manuelian, defense attorney, the police have to eliminate those closest to the missing individual first. That`s where they look. Of course, you can see right there they`re also searching hither and yon for this child. It`s not like they`re doing everything -- or nothing but talking to the mother. They`re doing everything they possibly can. So I don`t think you can accuse them of having tunnel vision when they are searching everywhere that they can for this child.
JOHN MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. But we want to also keep into perspective that the mom and dad right now are victims and they shouldn`t be treated as suspects. So I agree with Randy. At this point in time, the best person to put their problems with is a lawyer to communicate with the police, make sure there`s no miscommunication between the parents and the police and make sure the investigation is done properly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I`ve got to bring in Sherry Blake, a clinical psychologist. There seems to be a bizarre theme in this case that the family that lost this child -- the child may very well have been abducted, that`s what they`re saying -- they sort of keep bringing this subject back to themselves. The mother says cops told her she failed a polygraph. The cops say no comment. Now an aunt is saying, Oh, well, we think it`s inevitable that this woman`s going to be arrested, the mother. The cops are not saying that.
Why is this family sort of pointing at themselves?
SHERRY BLAKE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, that`s one thing that`s a real concern. If you -- most mothers of a 10-month-old, number one, it`s very difficult to sleep all night. So if you have a 10-month-old sleeping in a room, you`re very hypersensitive. And then to turn the attention on you definitely raises questions. I would be quite concerned.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Let`s listen to Lisa`s aunt. She reportedly told ABC News that Lisa`s mother, the missing child`s mother, this infant`s mother, is preparing for the possibility that she will be arrested.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think Deborah may be facing an arrest?
ASHLEY IRWIN, AUNT: Probably, to be real honest with you, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
IRWIN: Because it`s what the police do. They don`t have any leads, so they have to pin it on somebody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think it`s inevitable?
IRWIN: Yes, kind of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think there`s something about this that maybe you don`t know, that maybe she`s not told you?
IRWIN: Nope. No doubt in my mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? You seem very convinced. Why is that?
IRWIN: I`m absolutely -- because I just -- if anybody spends any time with them, you just know it`s not true. She`s genuine. She loves that child. It`s her baby. She would never do anything to hurt her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s baby Lisa`s aunt, Ashley Irwin, on ABC`s "Good Morning America."
Joe Gomez, the police say nothing could be further from the truth. What do you know?
GOMEZ: Well, we understand that the parents have been cooperating with the police. They still are, apparently. Now, last week, there was some issue when the parents apparently told the police that they wanted to get a break. They said they had too much of the spotlight, too much of this limelight that`s focused on them right now, so they wanted to get a break away from police officers.
Afterwards, police reportedly said that they weren`t cooperating. However, now we do understand that the family is cooperating with police. They`ve been distributing flyers. They`re been, you know, going door to door, trying to -- trying to, you know, get the word out to try to find their beautiful 10-month-old baby girl, baby Lisa, who`s now been missing for a week, Jane!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a 10-month-old that isn`t where she belongs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This search continued as officers looked inside neighbors` homes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please! Bring her home! Our two other boys are waiting for her! Please! Just drop her off anywhere!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please! Just drop her off anywhere! We don`t care. Just somewhere safe!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A complete mystery at this time. Police still say that they have no strong leads.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The FBI and police are stumped on this one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No idea where little Lisa Irwin might be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby just vanishing. It`s difficult.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their investigation focusing on baby Lisa`s bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That window has been the center and the focus of this investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came home from work, the front door was unlocked and the window was -- in the front was open.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby`s mother was the last person to see Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something`s really wrong! We were wandering around the house and we`re screaming for her! And she was nowhere!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The parents of the little girl not speaking with investigators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I don`t have to illustrate how that, you know, affects the investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deborah Bradley admits she failed a polygraph test.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s like they just walked in and just disappeared!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearly, as time passes by, this news becomes much more devastating and much more serious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is baby Lisa? Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace. And here`s a very disturbing fact, because there`s no way to celebrate. Baby Lisa turns 11 months old today, but this precious child is missing. Where is she? Cops frantically searching. They searched a vacant house. You see them searching there. They went into a well. They did not come up with anything.
Let`s go out to Ed Lavandera, CNN correspondent, who is at the home. We`re going to show you a graphic of the home, of the layout of the home, and we want you, Ed, to describe the home because it`s a very tiny home, from what we understand. Now, the claim is that somebody entered through the window, grabbed the child and then went out the front door, leaving all the lights on. How could that happen in a small house without the mother inside the house realizing it?
LAVANDERA: Not only that, Jane, but there was also two older little boys in the house under the age of 10, but older than the baby, that I was -- I`ve been told had fallen asleep watching a movie in another bedroom.
But essentially, if you look, it`s that window on the right edge of the home there -- that was the window where authorities have been talking about where perhaps this intruder went into the house. But interestingly enough, behind that window is not the room where baby Lisa was sleeping at this time.
So if this, indeed, is the case, someone would have had to have gone through that window, walked through a portion of the house, found the crib, grabbed the baby and then, as you mentioned, walked out the front door.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, my understanding is that the mother was asleep with a little kitten that they had rescued that day, as well as her youngest son.
Sherry Blake, clinical psychologist, you have a 6-year-old and an 8- year-old. They could have absolutely crucial information about what happened in the dead of night, where one minute the child is there, the next minute the child is gone. How do you talk to a 6-year-old and an 8- year-old boy about this?
BLAKE: One of the things I would do is put them in therapy. Put them with a licensed clinical psychologist or a child therapist. Give them an opportunity to tell their stories.
What`s interesting -- no one has ever talked about how these children are dealing with the issues. Are they traumatized? Are they upset? And that would be a definite telltale sign about something, or the tone of the house overall. I would be very...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Marc Klaas, my understanding -- go ahead. Finish up.
BLAKE: I was just going to say I`d be very curious about the other children in the home. And most of all, I`m very curious about what was mom doing or dad doing while they were, quote, "taking a break" That is your child, and most people would be hysterical by now, and especially for a 10- month-old child.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but then again, I don`t want to judge because I will not judge somebody if I haven`t walked in their shoes, and who knows how any of us would react if our precious baby was suddenly missing. We might collapse, we might say to the cops, I`ve told you everything I know, I need to rest here for a few minutes, because that`s when police said they were not cooperating, and then they came back after a rest and started talking again, and now they are cooperating.
Deborah, Arizona. We`re going to go to the calls. We`re going to go to Deborah, Arizona. Your question or thought, Deborah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jane. How are you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fine, thanks. What`s your question or thought?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is this mystery man. Where does he come from? Do we know his background? Could he be the child`s father? Do any of the family members know him?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I will say that the father was at work, OK? So no, I don`t think it`s the father. But the question is a very good one. Who is the mystery man spotted shopping with the mother hours before the child disappeared? And what happened to the wine they purportedly bought?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was her father who had discovered her missing, according to police, when he came home after working an overnight shift and found that her crib was empty at 4:00 o`clock in the morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: National media saying that there are charges imminent against the mother of Lisa Irwin. Is that true?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it`s a bit of a stretch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A very unfortunate anniversary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, please, please!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One week since Lisa Irwin has gone missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Call the tips hotline if you know where she`s at.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re tracking down everything and we`re working hard in all directions, no doubt about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t be without her!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It really just takes the one right nugget of information.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It only takes one. It really does.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To kick this thing off in high gear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just please bring her home!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s what we`re still looking and waiting for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is baby Lisa? An extraordinary mystery, a frantic search. Tonight, we are learning a couple of things. First of all, we`re learning that the mother of the child went shopping at 5:00 PM, approximately, purportedly with a mystery man, and bought a box of wine. Now, the mother has said that she last checked on the child and saw the child in the child`s room at approximately 10:30 PM. And then she says she went to sleep with another child, an older boy. I believe it was the 6- year-old boy.
Dad comes home at 4:00 AM, and he has said, according to published reports, that he notices that the baby`s door is open, when it`s usually closed. So he goes and checks, and that`s when he discovers at about 4:00, 4:30 in the morning that the child is missing. And he has said the intruder had to know what they were looking for because they went to that baby`s room and opened the door.
Joe Gomez, what do we know about this family? It`s called a blended family. Tell us about that.
GOMEZ: Yes, that`s right, Jane, because baby Lisa`s mother is actually married to a man who`s in the military and is presently overseas. Now, it`s important to note this is not the biological father of baby Lisa. Baby Lisa`s biological father was working the night shift at the time he was allegedly kidnapped, and who subsequently reported kidnapped, allegedly, that next morning. So that`s what you mean by this is a blended family.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. The mother of this missing child has a husband to which she is -- to whom she is still married, although they are estranged, and he is serving in the armed forces and he is reportedly overseas and according to that published report, cannot be involved in this whatsoever. He`s not around.
I want to go to the callers again. Sheeba, Illinois. Your question or thought, Sheeba?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jane. This seems like such a witch`s brew they got going on here. But I think they ought to look at that mother a little bit closer. She`s (INAUDIBLE) in my intestinal (ph) fortitude (ph), I see Susan Smith, and that just gives me total chills up my back.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I look at her face...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... we don`t want to jump to any conclusions. That`s -- Susan Smith, obviously, responsible for the death of her children, driven into a lake. And she originally claimed that they were carjacked, and then admitted that she was responsible for the deaths of her own children. We do not want to make that leap.
This mother is not considered a suspect. She has not been charged with anything. And she says she is cooperating with law enforcement.
We`ll have more when we come right back, new developments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trying to find this child.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Missing from her crib.
JEREMY IRWIN, MISSING 10-MONTH-OLD INFANT`S FATHER: This is her Barney that she sleeps with every night.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Around 10:30 when she put her daughter to bed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Make sure he was in the crib in case she needed it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The one person that was there that night, the last person to see her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The baby`s mother --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The front door unlocked.
IRWIN: Most of the lights were on in the house.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The window just on the edge of the house there, but they had found open.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Ten-month-old daughter gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were running around the house and were screaming for her and she was nowhere.
IRWIN: We want to have her back so she could have her family, her brothers. Just we need her home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only thing I can think of is, you know, maybe somebody wanted a baby. And she -- I hope that`s what it is.
IRWIN: I came home from work. The front door was unlocked. Most of the lights were on in the house. And the window in the front was open. Obviously all very unusual. And then I started checking on the kids, checked on the boys first, and then we checked on her, and that`s when we realized she was gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is baby Lisa? Jane Velez-Mitchell filling in for Nancy Grace tonight.
The missing child`s aunt was on "GMA" and seemed to be saying that she expected the missing child`s mother to be arrested. Well, tonight she is clarifying that position and saying, no, she really didn`t mean that she thought the arrest of baby Lisa`s mom, Deborah Bradley`s arrest was imminent. She`s saying, no, no, no, that`s not really what I meant to say.
And cops are saying it couldn`t be further from the truth, that the mother is not considered a suspect or even a person of interest.
I find it pretty fascinating, and I want to go out to Edith Caray who lives just a couple of blocks from where all this is going down.
You live near the vacant home that was searched by cops today which is only about five or six blocks away from the home from which the child disappeared.
Edith, tell us about the mood in that neighborhood. Is there fear? Is there concern that maybe there might be a predator on the loose?
EDITH CARAY, LIVES NEAR VACANT HOME COPS SEARCHED FOR MISSING 10- MONTH-OLD INFANT (via phone): Yes, we`re all concerned about anybody that seems to be walking around that we don`t recognize and people late at night, you know. We all like to think people should stay home once it gets dark.
But this abandoned home had been uncovered from all the brushes and vines and things, and so when the police officers had evidently learned of that cistern, they took and acted upon it just to make sure that they`re following up on anything that could maybe lead them to that baby. And I just pray that they do find the baby, baby Lisa, find her very soon and healthy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marc Harrold, you`re a former police officer. What does it tell you that they`re searching in the immediate vicinity. Five to six block away. The search seems to be concentrated right in the area where this family lives.
MARC HARROLD, FORMER OFFICER, ATLANTA PD, ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "OBSERVATIONS OF WHITE NOISE": Well, that`s the last place the baby was seen. I mean you have to start there. If you don`t have a lead placing the baby for certain in a different place, that the only place you really have is in the proximity of the home. They`re moving outward from the home. They may think that`s in a lot of abandoned houses people -- transient people, homeless people may be living.
They may have had some tips that there were someone like that in the neighborhood that they can`t account for, or the people weren`t familiar with. But yes, until you have somewhere else to look, the only thing you can do is start at the house, determine that the child is no longer in the home and then work outward from there.
And my guess is they`re just being systematic and searching anywhere that the child may be and then they`re going to rule places out and keep moving.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to calls in a second. But first, Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids. There are reports from local residents that police have questioned them about a homeless man that was seen in the neighborhood about two weeks ago riding around on a red bicycle seeking handy work and that now that the child has disappeared, that homeless man who was a potential handyman is nowhere to be found, which of course reminds me of the Elizabeth Smart case, where the transient actually did work in the home and then came back and abducted little Elizabeth Smart. Marc.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION (via phone): Yes. Yes, that`s absolutely true. And, you know, there are also reports - - remember this, Jane, there were reports that a man was seen walking away with a baby late on the evening that baby Lisa disappeared.
And the mother also said that she left the front door unlocked that very night. The father also said that whoever got into the house knew where they were going because they went right to the baby`s room.
This severely limits the universe of possibilities. This is basically telling me that this is very much a local crime, and the answer to this crime exists within that community.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what I find very fascinating is that the aunt, who was on "GMA", was asked who was on the surveillance video with Deborah Bradley, the missing child`s mother, at approximately 5:30, this mystery man -- who is this mystery man who is shopping? And buying a box of wine with the mother of the missing child.
And she said, reportedly, I don`t have any comment on that. Not I don`t know who it is, I have no idea, you`d have to ask police. She said, "I don`t have any comment on that."
John Manuelian, what is your reaction to that reaction?
JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s exactly, Jane, why these -- this family needs an attorney, to do all the PR work, to deal with the media, and to deal with the police.
Look, the family is making statements that they shouldn`t be making. These are damning statements, it potentially is tainting the jury pool if she is arrested because people are watching your show. So they should keep their mouth shut, get an attorney to speak on their behalf. Otherwise they`re going to dig themselves a very, very deep hole that they may not be able to climb out of.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but Randy Kessler, if she has absolutely nothing to hide, isn`t it kind of dangerous to get an attorney? Doesn`t that kind of make you look a little suspicious?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. I mean, you know, she already looks suspicious. And John is right, they`ve got to get a lawyer. Now there`s another wrinkle, which is she`s married. And this father who may be in Afghanistan or may be overseas, maybe he`s got a buddy or somebody that wants to avenge him.
I mean there are things you do. You get divorced, before you move on, get into another relationship, have a child. Somebody is going to be angry about the fact that she`s moved along, maybe it`s somebody -- who knows. But yes, all eyes are going to be on her. Get a lawyer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. This woman is crying hysterically which looks very believable to me. I have to say, and I`m not tooting my own horn, but quite often when people who have ended up becoming suspects, get on camera they look phony.
This mother looks perfectly, perfectly genuine to me. She`s sobbing hysterically as any mother would who has lost her child. She looks absolutely terrified and frantic. She does not in any way to me radiate anything that is suspicious.
Sherry Blake, what say you?
SHERRY BLAKE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, one of the things you can say, you know, she looks, you know, genuine. We really don`t know. I would like to think so, because as a mother, you know, those -- that`s her child and you want to make sure, you know, that she is looking out for the best interests and quite concerned. We don`t know that.
And we have seen that many times over on TV. People come on, they look very, very sad. But we don`t know what was going on before. We don`t know what has happened and we definitely don`t know what`s to come yet. So I can`t go by looks alone.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s remember that she is not a suspect in this case and she is a mother who has lost a child and she deserves our compassion. OK, that`s the default position to have. Yes, absolutely it is.
BLAKE: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I know you would agree.
Elaine -- we`re going back to the callers. Elaine, Illinois, OK, you`re on the phone. What is your question or thought, Elaine?
ELAINE, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Jane. I want again --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
ELAINE: I talked to you before and I just want again to tell you that I`m very proud of your sobriety.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
ELAINE: I know how hard it is every single day. You`ve got to go day by day and you -- what, 16 years now, I believe, right?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sixteen, yes, right. Sixteen.
ELAINE: Awesome. Awesome. OK, I have a couple of questions.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you. Sure.
ELAINE: Yes, very, very proud of you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
ELAINE: Anyway, did they get any fingerprints around the baby`s window and -- number one? Number two, did they see any -- like where the garage would be, where the baby`s window was, any kind of mushed grass like someone was standing there, and did they find any fingerprints on the door, if he went out the front door whatever.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Elaine --
ELAINE: And one more -- one more question.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Three excellent questions. We just want to make sure we can handle all these questions. So let`s go out to Ed Lavandera, CNN correspondent.
Excellent questions about what are the forensics at the scene?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they haven`t commented specifically and they won`t. You know, we`ve tried about specifics, about fingerprints. You know we`ve got to assume that, you know, eight days out from this abduction if they had any kind of solid fingerprints that they had gotten that would lead them to somebody, we would have seen action on that by now. So I`m a little kind of suspect about that.
In terms of the area around that window, it`s interesting because the authorities around here, especially over the last four or five days, have paid a lot of attention to that path up to the window. They have been using metal detectors along there. What they`ve gleaned from that is hard to say. They`ve also paid a lot of attention to a drainage ditch area and a little creek that runs through the back of the house in a wooded area. But again the specifics as to what they take away from all of that after they come back and search it again they`re not sharing with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IRWIN: I came home from work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something is really wrong.
IRWIN: The window was -- in the front was open.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said she`s not in a crib. And I said what do you mean she`s not in her crib?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 4:00 a.m., Jeremy Irwin calls 911 to report his 10-month-old baby daughter, Lisa, was missing from her crib.
IRWIN: The window was -- in the front was open.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Ten-month-old Lisa disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this picture. Look and keep thinking about this infant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re still full steam ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need everything that we can get. We need every lead we can get.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our two other boys are waiting for her, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just gone on too long now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of people hustling around trying to put this thing together and find this child.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There has to be something there, maybe a footprint, something.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s like they just walked in and just disappeared.
KLAAS: The child is probably still somewhere in the local area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just holding my boys and they were crying, asking what`s going on, where`s she at, why`s she gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That mother says she last saw her little baby, the beautiful child you`re looking at, at 10:30 at night. She says she goes to sleep with an older child. Then her husband, Jeremy Irwin, comes back at about 4:30 in the morning and sees that the house is in an unusual situation.
The lights are on, the little baby`s door is open, finds the child missing. And all hell breaks loose as they desperately begin to hunt for this child. What I don`t understand is the significance of this, Mark Harrold, former police officer.
The dad has a cell phone on him when he comes home, but three cell phones that were in the home are missing. Now why would somebody come in, and I don`t know if anything else has been stolen, take the baby and take three cell phones?
HARROLD: That`s baffling. I can`t think of a reason. I was thinking about that all afternoon. You know and it also goes to the fact that where are all those cell phones together. The idea here is at least from what the father thinks this individual must have known the house, known where the baby was, come right in, gotten the baby and left.
If those cell phones weren`t all in the immediate area, it basically calls that into doubt. It makes it look like the individual would have to go elsewhere in the home to retrieve the cell phones. But I honestly don`t have an answer, I can`t -- unless there was a thought that there was some evidence of this crime or this crime, or what they were planning to do, maybe some texts or e-mails about some sort of plan. But I`m baffled by that that the three cell phones disappeared, if that`s actually what happened.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Aha, some kind of text or e-mail or texting or -- yes, and also if those phones were on, authorities could follow the pings wherever this purported alleged possible intruder might have gone. But the cell phones may very well have been off.
All right, Brenda -- we`re going to go back to the calls. Brenda, West Virginia, your question or thought, Brenda.
BRENDA, CALLER FROM WEST VIRGINIA: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi. How are you doing?
BRENDA: This story reminds me so much of the little girl, Haylee, that was missing in Florida.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Haylee. Oh, yes.
BRENDA: This is just too laid out. I mean nothing makes sense. And I have two sons, they`re grown now, but when my kids were little, I heard every move that they made. And they`re 23 and 28 now. And especially my youngest son, I hear him coming in or getting up or whatever. You never lose that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, very good point. And I want to -- I want to throw it out to Marc Klaas of the KlaasKids Foundation. It does have a ring of a the Hayley Cummings to ace of course, Misty Croslin was the young woman watching Hayley Cummings when she disappeared, it`s never been solved.
Misty and the child`s father, Ron Cummings, both behind bars on unrelated drug convictions. And the question about whatever happened to little Hayley Cummings remains a tragic mystery to this play.
Marc Klaas, your thoughts on any commonalities between these two cases?
KLAAS: Well, there`s commonalities in the fact it was a small home and apparently somebody came in and took the young child without the adult hearing it. Now we have to remember that these were all Oxycontin and crackheads down in Florida in the Hayley case. She could have been completely zoned out and probably didn`t really clear up until she was in prison for six months.
Nobody knows the secrets that are held in that. But I think it`s really, really clear here, Jane, as you pointed out that this mother is in absolute anguish.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
KLAAS: It`s just that we don`t quite understand the cause of that anguish yet. But listen, if they subpoena those cell phones, they`ll be able to find out what texts are being sent, they`ll find out what calls were going coming in and going out. And they`ll be able to put all that together.
I really believe now that if the parents are responsible for this, and I`m not accusing anybody because I have absolutely no idea, I believe that baby Lisa is probably dead. However, if somebody else --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t like to think that way.
KLAAS: If somebody else is responsible for this, I think that there`s a very, very good chance that she is still alive and will be recovered alive.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I pray, I pray that the latter is true. And again, we always think of, well, we`re looking for some mystery man. No, it could also be a female, you never know. The reason we say mystery man is that the mother was seen buying a box of wine purportedly on surveillance tape with a mystery man several hours before she last put the child to bed, and the child was last seen.
So I think that`s fascinating. And I want to go to this other subject that is related. This is happening in Clay County. The Clay County Grand jury has issued subpoenas to at least four Kansas City TV stations.
Ed Lavandera, they`re seeking the raw footage of any interviews given by neighbors, family or friends looking for inconsistent statements? What do you know?
LAVANDERA: Well, these subpoenas arrived at TV stations -- late yesterday afternoon and they were -- you know, it`s not totally out of the ordinary. This happens in a lot of cases around the country, you know, consistently, but it is interesting that they wanted these -- all these interview tapes, the raw footage, the unedited versions and this is dating back from the very moment. From the moment these parents started speaking clearly trying to figure out if there`s any inconsistencies in what they said.
And you know, obviously that kind of continues to point to the fact that they`re taking a close and hard look at these parents and family members as to what has been said and what they have been saying over the last week.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: John Manuelian, defense attorney, what do you make of subpoenas being issued for all four local stations in the Kansas City area? They want to look at the raw tapes of everything that was said by family or friends?
MANUELIAN: I think it`s very smart. It shows the police are going to take the videos, as we said before, and they`re going to watch each video and see what the witnesses said and see what corroborates and what`s inconsistent. And then based on the inconsistencies, they`re going to focus on what made those inconsistencies, what those inconsistencies were, and then target that person possibly as a suspect.
However, corroborating evidence could be taking a person out of the equation. So it`s a very useful tool, just like a deposition in a civil case, to use the videos to see what, if any, evidence is out there, or what if any information is out there for that matter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m kind of wondering if the whole confusion about whether or not the family is cooperating centers around this mystery man, Randy Kessler, with whom the mother was seen buying a box of wine. And again, the child, the missing child`s aunt will not comment on this person, which leads me to believe that maybe somebody knows who this person is and that perhaps the father of the child didn`t know that the mother was getting wine with this man. Your thoughts quickly.
KESSLER: My thoughts quickly are she`s so honest and she`s so in anguish obliviously but you know, is she in anguish because he did something wrong? I mean why not tell. And about the tapes, I want to see the tapes of those people entering the window. They`re tainting the evidence. They`re leaving their clothes, their DNA on that window which was a crime scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Ten-month-old Lisa Irwin who vanished from her home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, please, please, call the tip hot line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re still working our tails off to try to figure out what happened.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Way to go, Nancy.
Congratulations to our very own Nancy Grace for her exciting, bold, and simply fabulous performance last night on "Dancing with the Stars." Nancy and her partner, Tristan MacManus heated up the dance floor in the dance floor with their Paso Doble, and boy, did Nancy look hot. Way to go, Nancy. You can win this thing!
Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy Grace dancing the "President." Nancy Grace and her partner Tristan MacManus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bravo, Nancy, well done.
Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Specialist Raymond Mitchell III, 21, from Smyrna, Georgia, killed in Iraq. He was awarded the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart, and the National Defense Service medal. A member of the Golden Dragons. He left his studies at Arkansas State University to enlist in the army. An exceptional baseball player. He also had a black belt in tae kwon do, he loved computer games and is remembered for his amazing sense of humor. He leaves behind his proud parents, Carolyn and Raymond Jr., and her sister Caroline.
Raymond Mitchell III, a true American hero.
Thank you to all our guests and thanks to you at home. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern right here. Until then, have a safe evening.
And Nancy, you can win it. We know it.
END
