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Nancy Grace
Baby Lisa`s Mother in Grocery Store Day of Disappearance
Aired October 12, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to the heartland. A 10-month-old baby girl sleeping in her own crib just feet away from her mother, Daddy working the night shift that night, goes missing without a trace, front door unlocked, front window open, every cell phone missing. Will a hidden well reveal clues?
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, grainy surveillance video emerges of Mommy shopping at a local store with a mystery man just hours before baby Lisa vanishes. What does Mommy buy? Baby food and a box of wine. Tonight, investigators swarming the home, looking for clues. As critical hours pass, tonight, where is 10-month-old baby Lisa?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search for this little baby girl continues.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody loves her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came home from work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dad comes home at 4:00 AM.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The front door was unlocked.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only hours before Mommy is at this nearby grocery store.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I go to the store and everybody says she`s beautiful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most of the lights were on in the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s at this grocery store with this strange man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The window in the front was open.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mommy`s buying a box of wine!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I started checking on the kids. Checked on the boys first.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I woke up and he came home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then we checked on her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, She`s not in her crib. And I said, What do you mean she`s not in her crib?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s when we realized she was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby Lisa is allegedly snatched from her crib.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s really playful and she`s really sweet. And she`ll go to almost anyone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beautiful 10-month-old baby girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, grainy surveillance video emerges of Mommy shopping at local store with a mystery man. And this is just hours before baby Lisa vanishes. What does Mommy buy? Baby food and a box of wine. Tonight, investigators swarming the home looking for clues, critical hours passing. Tonight, where is 10-month-old baby Lisa?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities have paid a lot of attention to that path up to the window.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The claim is that somebody entered through the window.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sometimes she cries, depending on how long of sleep she`s had.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grabbed the child and then went out the front door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the minute you pick her up and you cuddle with her, she probably won`t cry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How could that happen in a small house without the mother inside the house realizing it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was also two older little boys in the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) window that was open (INAUDIBLE) nowhere near their bedroom. I don`t think they heard anything. They`re pretty heavy sleepers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re just trying to hold it together for our boys and for her!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An extraordinary mystery, a frantic search.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Try to think of anything or anyone or any reason this might have happened. And we still haven`t.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is the mystery man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And why in the world did Mommy buy a box of wine?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Baby Lisa missing under very unusual circumstances. Yes, children have been snatched from their cribs in the past, but it is extremely rare for an intruder to come into a family home, steal -- especially when they`re there -- steal nothing, no forced entry, and take only the baby.
Straight out to Ed Lavandera, CNN correspondent joining us in Kansas City. Ed, what can you tell me?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it`s interesting. Several developments going on today, Nancy. There are -- searches continue in the area here near the home of where baby Lisa was abducted from. We understand that there are detectives that are going through a wooded area not too far away. There are also other crews that are going through a nearby pond, a large pond that is not too far away from this home, as well.
So those searches continue. Authorities tell us they`re not acting on any particular tips, they`re just kind of going through...
GRACE: Wait!
LAVANDERA: ... every possible scenario...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa!
LAVANDERA: ... and trying to cross them off the list.
GRACE: Hold on! Hold on, Ed!
LAVANDERA: So that`s why they`re doing that.
GRACE: Ed! Ed! Ed! Ed! Let`s back it up. This is a 10-month-old baby. The baby can`t walk. The baby can`t run. So why are they looking in a pond or a wooded area? How would a 10-month-old baby -- Ed, do you have children?
LAVANDERA: I do, actually, thank you very much.
GRACE: You remember then when they were 10 months old. They can`t get up and walk out of their crib. I mean, how would the baby have gotten to a wooded area behind the home or how would a baby have gotten into a pond? Have they burned that bridge yet? Do we know the answer to that?
LAVANDERA: Well, I think -- Nancy, as you well know, we`re now more than a week. This is the ninth day that baby Lisa has been missing. So I think authorities, probably safe to presume that they`re working under the possibility, the very real possibility, that baby Lisa props is no longer alive, and obviously, if they believe that she was taken away from this home, that something awfully (SIC) and terrible has happened to her, and that`s why they`re checking out these areas. They did this yesterday, and they`ve been doing it over the last four or five days.
And obviously, the farther away we get from last Monday, the more likelihood of a bad outcome we`re going to see here.
GRACE: You know what, Ed? I know you`re right. And I know that you have covered many of these cases before. I have, too. I`ve prosecuted them before. But I`m not ready to accept that baby Lisa is dead yet.
LAVANDERA: Oh, no.
GRACE: And I get what you`re saying, Ed. I get it.
Let`s go out to the lines. Beverly in Georgia. Hi, Beverly. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had a question about the baby`s crib. Whenever the detectives went in and did the reenactment of the break-in, it showed a picture of the crib, and the crib was full of plastic containers and a baby bathtub and other things. I was curious if the detectives had questioned about that or had said anything about that because she said the baby had been sleeping in the crib.
GRACE: Hey, that`s a good question. Liz, let`s back it up because I believe I saw that picture, too. I want to see -- there you go. Hold it. Don`t move, Liz. OK.
Ed Lavandera, we`re looking at the picture of the baby`s crib, and Beverly in Georgia is right. Why would they have put all that stuff in the crib? Now, I know why they`ve probably got the dark tape covering the windows. I`ve done that before, so when the dawn cracks first thing in the morning, it wouldn`t wake up the twins. But why is baby Lisa`s crib full of stuff, including, it looks like, a baby tub? Why is all that stuff in her crib? Certainly, cops didn`t do that, Ed Lavandera.
LAVANDERA: Nancy, I can`t see the picture you`re talking about, but I have a feeling I think I know which one it is. And it was about four days after the abduction or the disappearance of baby Lisa. One of the family members allowed ABC`s "Nightline" to go in and shoot video of the house. So that video was taken -- if it`s a picture of what I think it is, that picture was probably taken four or five days.
I`m remiss to suggest or kind of know that...
GRACE: OK.
LAVANDERA: ... that`s exactly the conditions it was in on that Monday night into Tuesday morning, you know what I mean? That might have been changed (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: OK, you`re taking a look...
LAVANDERA: ... but I don`t know if that`s actually...
GRACE: ... at baby Lisa`s crib, and inside her bedroom. This is, believe it or not, now a crime scene. This 10-month-old baby`s bedroom is a crime scene, baby Lisa apparently taken from her own crib.
Joining me right now, special guest Marc Klaas joining me out of San Francisco, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. You know, Marc, when I`m looking at this baby`s room, it`s just killing me because I see so many of the same little things that are in my twins` room. And to imagine their room turned into a crime scene? Give me your opinion, Marc Klaas.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Nancy, I first want to point out that it`s very likely that the mom slept through any incident that occurred in the house. I`d like to remind people that in the case of my daughter, Polly, it was a very similar scenario. Somebody broke into the house late at night, and Polly`s mom was separated by just the bathroom, and she slept through the entire incident. So you know, in defense of this young woman, I don`t think we can draw any conclusions from that simple fact.
I believe that there`s a good chance that baby Lisa is alive, particularly if the parents were not involved, because the most common scenario would be a mother or somebody who wanted a child to raise for their own. The least likely scenario would be some kind of a sexual predator.
And then you have everything in between, and that`s where the police are going. They`re trying to eliminate local geography. They`re trying to eliminate local registered sex offenders, neighbors, friends, people in the family. Unfortunately, they still seem to be very focused upon the immediate family.
GRACE: Right. Joining me right now is a special guest. It`s Rebecca Guerrero. She is the store clerk that last saw the Mommy. Rebecca, thank you for being with us.
REBECCA GUERRERO, STORE CLERK (via telephone): Thank you for having me.
GRACE: Rebecca, this video surveillance of Mommy shopping in the hours just before baby Lisa goes missing has suddenly taken center stage. It may mean something, it may mean nothing. What do you recall happening when she came in?
GUERRERO: When she came in, I did not see her until I checked her out. She had a box of wine with her and baby food and baby wipes. You know, and I didn`t think anything of it because a lot of people buy boxes of wine, and I just didn`t think anything of it, so...
GRACE: OK. Let me ask you this. The box of wine, how much wine was in it?
GUERRERO: I`m not really sure. I mean, it`s a pretty good-sized box of wine.
GRACE: OK, I`m not getting a good picture of that. What do you mean a good-sized box? I mean, how many ounces? What would that be?
GUERRERO: I don`t know. I think it`s like a quart.
GRACE: And who is this guy? Who is this guy she`s with? How were they behaving toward each other?
GUERRERO: They were -- you know, they`re always friendly, so I don`t -- I mean, I didn`t suspect anything.
GRACE: Right. Right. So she gets baby food, baby wipes and a big box of wine.
Everybody, we are taking your calls. I want to go to Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story. Matt, what more can you tell me about the timeline? Is it correct that the father is working the night shift? Would he have been at work when Mommy is with this guy buying wine? What time was this?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, the grocery store video we believe was taken at about 5:00 PM. Now, what happened was, is that the father, Jeremy Irwin, got home from the night shift. Now, this is the first time he had ever worked the overnight shift. He`s reportedly an electrician. He returns home at 4:00 AM, soon notices the baby`s gone, and immediately calls cops.
GRACE: OK. Give me the timeline again, Matt Zarrell. So she`s at the grocery store buying wine at about 5:00 PM with the mystery man. She says she puts the baby to bed around 10:00 -- she last sees the baby at 10:30 PM, right?
ZARRELL: Yes. Correct.
GRACE: OK, 4:00 AM, the father gets home from the night shift. And what leads him to go check on the baby? Why do they go in there and look at the baby?
ZARRELL: OK, what happens is, the first thing he notices is the front door is unlocked. He goes inside the house. He notices that the front bedroom window is open. He tries to close it, but he can`t because the bottom part of the screen for the window is slightly pushed in.
He goes back to talk to the mom about it. That`s when he notices that the baby`s room is open. The baby`s room is never open when the baby sleeps. He goes in to check on the baby. Baby is gone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jeremy Irwin calls 911 to report his 10-month-old baby daughter, Lisa, was missing from her crib. When Kansas City, Missouri, police arrive, they learn the baby`s mother, Deborah Bradley, was the last person to see Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don`t have any other suspects, the one person that was there that night, the last person to see her -- who else do you point your finger at, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Little Lisa Irwin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have been asked to come out here to find Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Call the tips hotline if you know where she`s at!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think our detectives are doing what people would expect they are doing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The latest search, a lot of people here searching for Lisa Irwin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That search didn`t turn up anything, any kind of evidence or any kind of clue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators reportedly got surveillance video. It shows the mother of the missing girl shopping with a mystery man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s zero, zero doubt in Deborah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A neighbor told Fox 4 News she saw a man walking in the neighborhood with a baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a bad guy out there or bad people with this child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re working hard in all directions, no doubt about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody`s sleeping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These folks have been up around the clock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody`s eating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re still full steam ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t be without her!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our main priority, our number one goal is to find this child.
GUERRERO: Come through my line. They had a box of wine, some baby wipes, and baby food. Now, she did two separate purchases. She did the baby stuff first and then the box of wine. And that was it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you find that to be odd or...
GUERRERO: Not really. I mean, most people buy wine all the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is grocery store clerk Rebecca Guerrero, and she`s joining us tonight live. Rebecca, any idea who the man is that was with Mommy buying wine? Who is that?
GUERRERO: I believe he`s a close friend of theirs.
GRACE: Of who?
GUERRERO: Of the parents.
GRACE: Have you seen them together before?
GUERRERO: Yes, I have.
GRACE: Together with the mommy, or with the mommy and the daddy?
GUERRERO: Both.
GRACE: OK. Everybody, we are taking your calls. We are live in Missouri, in the heartland. A 10-month-old baby girl goes missing from her own home.
Back to CNN correspondent Ed Lavandera. Ed, what more can you tell us?
LAVANDERA: Well, you know, it was interesting to watch. You`ve been talking to Rebecca there, and we just left the grocery store that`s less than a mile away from where we are here. And I thought it was interesting. And we looked at the -- all of the surveillance tape that they had. They were in that store for about six minutes, and this is about five-and-a-half hours before, according to what police have told us, that Deborah had put baby Lisa down to sleep, about 10:30.
The demeanor is very calm. They were in the store for about six minutes. Rebecca talked about how it was very casual, everything seemed normal. In fact, the very last clip that you see, when you watch Deborah and that man walking out of the grocery store, she seemed to have a smile on her face. So any kind of sign of any kind of trouble, you don`t really see it in that video.
GRACE: Well, I`ve got a question, Ed Lavandera. When she was at the grocery store buying wine with this guy, where was the baby?
LAVANDERA: You know what? I asked Rebecca that question because Rebecca talks about -- talked about -- she`s worked at that store for about two years and said that it was very common -- a lot of times, she`d see Deborah come in with the children. A lot of times, she`d come in to the store without the children. And they always kind of made a point of talking about them and that sort of thing.
And I asked Rebecca that, Did you ask where the children were that day? You know, Why no kids? And she didn`t. So we don`t really have an answer to that, at that point. But it was one of the first questions I thought about when I saw the video.
GRACE: Hey, Ed, who else was in the home at the time the baby went missing? I know the mom was there. I know the father was at work.
LAVANDERA: Right. Mom has another son from another relationship, an older son, and the father, Jeremy, also has a son from another relationship. So my understanding is both of those boys are under the age of -- I think 6 and 8, both under the age of 10. They were at home, as well.
One officer had told me that they had been watching a movie in the same room together, perhaps had fallen asleep in that room together. But those two boys were definitely home.
GRACE: And Ed, what can you tell me about the neighborhood? It`s a residential community, but what more can you tell me?
LAVANDERA: You know, it`s interesting. We`ve spent a lot of time, clearly, over here, over the more than a week that we`ve been in this neighborhood. You know, it`s a working class neighborhood. It was interesting. Somebody made a comment that they were -- someone was looking for a handyman, and one neighbor had told us (INAUDIBLE) you know, there`s a handyman on every corner here.
So it`s definitely, you know, a working class neighborhood. They all seem to know each other, very friendly.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is very strange.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby just vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only hours before baby Lisa was reportedly abducted, Mommy is at this nearby grocery store with this strange man, who is not, by the way, not baby Lisa`s father.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search for the missing baby girl, 10-month-old Lisa Irwin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They didn`t find anything in that well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They did not find any concrete evidence of anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the mom told the police that she had gone to that supermarket and made those purchases, there`s nothing strange about that at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t get it. This baby is sleeping just feet away from the mother. She hears nothing, and apparently, in the middle of the night -- she checks on the baby at 10:30 PM. When the dad gets home from the night shift at 4:00 AM, they go in to look, the baby is gone.
I want to go to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com. Alexis, is it the father that noticed the front door -- was it open or was it unlocked, Alexis?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: It was just unlocked, Nancy. He had come home from work. It was the middle of the night. But what he said was so strange is almost every light in the house was on. So that really gave him some worry. He started walking around the house. He checked on his boys. They were fine. And then he checked on his little baby girl, and she was missing.
He said he woke up his wife. They panicked, but there were no cell phones in the home. For some reason, there were three cell phones that were plugged in on the kitchen counter normally, and none of them were there. I`m not sure why the husband didn`t have his cell phone with him.
GRACE: OK, Alexis, have they been recovered? Have they been recovered, Alexis, the cell phones?
TERESZCUK: No.
GRACE: Have they been found?
TERESZCUK: No, they have not been found.
GRACE: OK. That`s extremely odd. I want to go back to Marc Klaas from Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, you were mentioning that when your daughter, Polly, was abducted, her mom did not hear anything.
You know, every night, the twins come in and they get in bed with me. And I`ve got to tell you something. I`m no better because Lucy will be right there at the bed, getting into the bed, before I know that she`s there. In other words, I didn`t hear her door, I didn`t hear her coming in my room. I hear nothing. And then there they are, both of them.
So I`m not saying that this couldn`t have all happened without the mom hearing anything. But what do you make of all the lights being turned on, somebody taking cell phones, the front window being open? Why would the window be open and the door unlocked? Think it through, Marc.
KLAAS: Well, I have a lot of problems with that, too. If the door was unlocked, why even bother with the window? Why not just open the door and go in?
Now, the father said that there were -- that whoever did this knew their way in and around the house. They knew where the baby was and how to get to the baby, which again brings it back very locally. And I think that that`s why the law enforcement is so focused on this neighborhood and seemingly this neighborhood alone.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jeremy Irwin calls 911 to report his 10-month-old baby daughter Lisa was missing from her crib.
DEBORAH BRADLEY, MISSING 10-MONTH-OLD INFANT`S MOTHER: Our two other boys are waiting for her, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Find the guilty party.
LAVANDERA: Another disheartening day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And return Lisa home safely.
BRADLEY: Just drop her off anywhere.
LAVANDERA: As the search for this baby girl continues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew then that they must be searching for the baby.
BRADLEY: We don`t care. Just somewhere safe.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who is this mystery man that she is allegedly, purportedly getting wine with?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mom and dad right now are victims, and they shouldn`t be treated as suspects.
BRADLEY: She can come home, please.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This infant`s mother is preparing for the possibility that she will be arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You hear about it, but you don`t think it`s going to happen right here beside you.
BRADLEY: Please.
LAVANDERA (on camera): Can you describe her demeanor? What was she like? Was she acting strange in any kind of way?
REBECCA GUERRERO, CLERK WHO CHECKED MISSING INFANT`S MOM OUT: She had a smile on her face. I mean like she always does when she comes in here. She, you know, loves her kids to death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: That last person speaking was store clerk Rebecca Guerrero with us live tonight. We`re all taking your calls. Take a look at 10-month-old baby Lisa allegedly snatched out of her own crib just feet away from her mother as they lay sleeping.
Also in the home, two minor boys under the age of 12. Daddy working the night shift. Mommy caught on surveillance video just hours before baby Lisa goes missing buying baby food, baby wipes, and a box of wine.
My question is where was the baby at that time?
Everybody, we are taking your calls, but unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight Hugo Rodriguez, defense attorney, former fed with the FBI out of Miami. Pilar Prinz, defense attorney, Atlanta.
First to you, Hugo. Mommy says she`s taken a polygraph and she`s afraid she failed. Weigh in.
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FMR. FBI AGENT: You know, if she did it, she did it voluntarily. She must know the results or her counsel must know the results of the test. But in her emotional state, she is grieving, what she`s going through, that wouldn`t be unusual at all.
GRACE: Put him up. Hugo, Hugo, Hugo.
RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
GRACE: No. Every polygrapher will tell you that emotions do not play into whether you pass or fail a polygraph, but in her defense, when somebody flunks a polygraph it could be, have you ever used drugs? In college they smoked a joint and they go no. I mean it could be something like that that makes her fail the polygraph.
RODRIGUEZ: Well, first, Nancy --
GRACE: Go ahead.
RODRIGUEZ: Having litigated the polygraph issue, I don`t buy some of them saying that emotions don`t affect you. It is psychosomatic.
GRACE: Whatever.
RODRIGUEZ: And all of those senses -- she`s under a very -- she`s in a very difficult situation. You as a mother would know. So I wouldn`t give it credibility one way or another, either way.
GRACE: Yes, well, you know what, Pilar Prinz, all defense attorneys say that when their clients fail the polygraph but when they pass the polygraph, they run into the courthouse like, you know, they`ve got a scalp fresh off somebody`s head in their hand to wave it in front of the prosecutor.
So, you know, you can`t have your cake and eat it, too. It doesn`t work that way, but this is what I know. I know that polygraphs typically are not affected by emotions because everybody is uptight and emotional when they take a polygraph because you`re taking a polygraph because there`s a big problem brewing, but what I want to talk to you about is first we hear the parents are cooperating. Then we hear they`re not cooperating.
Why would parents not cooperate in the investigation for the search of their child?
PILAR PRINZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, the parents were cooperating. What we heard from the parents is they took a break. We don`t know how long this was going on. Maybe these poor parents were questioned for 10 hours. They`re emotional. Their daughter is missing. Maybe they said we haven`t eaten in 10 hours, we need to get some sleep and we`ll come back tomorrow and this whole thing got blown out of proportion. So I don`t think them taking a break means that they weren`t cooperating. They clearly came back and they are cooperating.
GRACE: OK. That`s very interesting, Pilar, because if my children were missing, if one of them were gone, there would be no break. There would be no break until I either found my child or I found the person that took my child. There would not be a break.
But let`s get down with the facts on that.
Zarrell, what do we know? Parents cooperating, not cooperating?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, what happened was is up until last Thursday the parents were cooperating. Now the dad says he claims that he needed a break and then an hour later police came out and said that the parents are not cooperating anymore.
Parents immediately go on all the morning shows the following day, said we are cooperating, we just needed a break. By Saturday they`re all talking again. And we just spoke to police a few moments ago. They are still cooperating with police as of now.
GRACE: I wonder what that means, Tom Shamshak . They are now cooperating with. Shamshak, former police chief, private investigator, instructor at Boston University.
What does that mean? Have you ever seen parents of missing children take a break from the investigation?
TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: Good evening, Nancy.
Not necessarily. Look, they could have, you know, been -- as one of the earlier commentator suggested -- under tremendous amount of stress. Having said that, you know, from my experience law enforcement is going to come down very heavy with these two people, the mother and the father. And that`s very stressful in and of itself.
But what they have to get back to here, Nancy, is you talked about the crime scene in the bedroom. They have to make sure that this was not staged, so they`re going to thoroughly see if this trace evidence, dirt from the outside, inside, fingerprints to see if there was some kind of fibers associated with the removal of the window there.
And, you know, they`re grappling with that. And they`re going to be very, very aggressive with this woman. So I can understand maybe they took a -- wanted to go have a chat with an attorney.
GRACE: OK. You know, I hear you, I hear all of you, the defense attorneys and Shamshak talking about people needing a break. Whatever. But I don`t buy they needed a break in the investigation to find their daughter. Maybe something else was brewing, something else that`s absolutely innocent, but when your child is missing, I don`t think you take a break from searching for her.
Out to the lines, Allison in New Jersey. Hi, Allison, what`s your question?
ALLISON, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hello, Nancy. Great job on "Dancing with the Stars," by the way.
GRACE: Oh, thank you. Did you see my split at the end? I got my foot stuck in my dress.
ALLISON: Great job, though.
GRACE: Forget about that. New week. What`s your question on this case, love?
ALLISON: Well, I have a couple of questions. And more than enough questions, but one question is, if she has two young boys, 6 and 8 years old, where were they and they`re old enough to talk and to say, hey, mommy was with this guy, mommy was drinking.
A box of wine holds about at least two to three bottles of small wine. So, you know -- and did the police check to see how much wine was out of that box if this lady was really drunk?
GRACE: You know what -- hold, wait -- hold Allison in New Jersey, hold her for a moment. Because that`s one of my first questions that I had, and you`ve jolted my memory.
Liz, let me know when we get Lavandera back.
Matt Zarrell, I`m not kidding, did they recover the wine? Because I want to find out how much had been consumed.
ZARRELL: Nancy, that`s a good question, but cops are not commenting on the evidence of this, but they are saying that it could be this surveillance video could possibly be a red herring that it could lead them in a direction where they really don`t want to go.
GRACE: Well, you know what? I still want to know how much wine was left and what happened to the wine.
As to the children, Allison in New Jersey, 6 and 8, it`s my understanding they were both asleep in the home.
Alexis Tereszcuk, did the 6-year-old and the 8-year-old sleep together or did they have separate rooms?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: They have separate rooms, but on this night they were together, and they had fallen asleep watching a movie, but it was a school night. So it`s a little bit late for them to be doing that.
GRACE: Alexis, I`ve got another question before we have to go to break. Where is the bio dad? Where is he in this configuration?
TERESZCUK: Well, the baby`s biological father is Deborah`s boyfriend, Jeremy. But the son --
GRACE: Is that father. OK. So we know -- we know where he is.
TERESZCUK: Yes. The son -- her other son, his biological father is actually in the Army, and he`s deployed overseas. And Deborah actually isn`t even divorced from him yet even though she`s engaged to Jeremy Irwin.
GRACE: And very quickly, Alexis, do we know the bio dad was checked in at work at the time? Are we sure where he was?
TERESZCUK: I believe that he was, yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole world is thinking about her. Maybe she did it, maybe she didn`t do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know where the obvious focus is.
BRADLEY: Come home, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who else do you point your finger at, you know?
JEREMY IRWIN, MISSING 10-MONTH-OLD INFANT`S FATHER: Somebody has got had her somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They live here. It`s their child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a bad guy out there.
LAVANDERA: And that window has been the center and the focus of this investigation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One of the officers climbed through the window in question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that how somebody got in there?
IRWIN: Window was -- in the front was open.
BRADLEY: I just knew, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now there was some good police work that you just saw.
Liz, if you could play that back, please.
You see the cops actually trying to see if they can get into the window the way a possible perpetrator did. Now that is some good police work. A lot of cops wouldn`t do that, a lot of prosecutors wouldn`t bother or defense attorneys wouldn`t try to do that.
But check this out. To get into that window -- roll it for me, Liz. See, look how -- what you have to do to get into that window. A grown man couldn`t get up there on his own. Apparently that`s as high as that window is going to go. Must be stuck by paint or something. But, see, he needed help getting up to that window.
Did you catch that? That guy had to help the other one get in. So what does this mean? Does it mean a full-grown man couldn`t get in on his own through that window? Think about it. You`ve got the window up, you`ve got the front door unlocked. Two plus two equals this baby is missing.
Check it out. How could he get in all on his own? And was that -- looks like a bird bath of some sort there? Was it climbed up on?
Joining me right now back on the scene we`ve got Ed Lavandera back, CNN correspondent.
Ed, we`ve got a ton of questions for you. Our callers are calling in with questions.
Ed, we`re watching video where the cops have to help each other get through that window. I assume that`s the window that was found left open. What do you know, Ed?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know what`s also interesting about that is that was on Sunday afternoon, the officers had come out here late in the afternoon and had done all that. Basically in full view of all of the neighbors and reporters that were hanging out here in the neighborhood.
And what kind of struck me as you mentioned is the struggle -- doesn`t seem impossible if someone really wanted to get in that window that they probably could have done it, but as you mentioned, very difficult. But also the window kind of slammed down, made a lot of noise a couple of times, and the other thing, too, is that behind that window is not the baby`s room.
You`d have to walk through that room that you get into and into another part of the house to get to the baby`s room and then presumably perhaps walk out the front door. You know, it`s kind of speculation there at that point but as you kind of try to figure out what might have happened.
GRACE: Hey, hold on, Ed.
LAVANDERA: None of that was easy.
GRACE: Liz, give me a picture of -- give me a shot of Ed Lavandera in full, please, because I want to look at that house behind him.
Ed, what is that little object below the window? Is that like a little bird bath or something, that black thing? What is that they were climbing up on?
LAVANDERA: I believe it is -- or perhaps like a little wind gauge kind of looking thing. I`m looking at it from a distance here but it`s one of those two things I think.
GRACE: Is it -- does it look like it`s strong enough to hold a full- grown man on it?
LAVANDERA: Not me.
(LAUGHTER)
LAVANDERA: No.
GRACE: Yes.
LAVANDERA: That doesn`t look like it at all to be honest.
GRACE: OK. OK. I`m just wondering if it was there that night. And, Ed, very important, I heard you say something about the screen to that window being bent. Was it bent in or out?
LAVANDERA: You know what? I`m not totally sure which way -- which way it was bent to be honest. They had mentioned -- the description I had heard is that it didn`t seem right or it wasn`t closed the way it normally was. That`s the best I know.
GRACE: Well, you know, I was thinking about this scenario, if a perp did go in, they could have gone through that window and then come out through the door, hence it being unlocked. So there is an innocent explanation as to that.
Joining me right now Dr. Cathleen London in addition to Ed Lavandera taking your calls. Attending physician at New York Presbyterian Hospital and professor at Will Cornell College.
Let me ask you, if baby Lisa had died in the home, do you believe, Doctor, there would have been forensic evidence of that?
DR. CATHLEEN LONDON, M.D., ASST. ATTENDING PHYSICIAN, NY PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL, ASST. PROF. AT WELL CORNELL COLLEGE: Potentially, it depends on the method. You know if it was, you know, suffocation, potentially not. You know something of that nature, but if there were body fluids at all, blood, things like that, then there would be. It`s a tough one. This is a small child.
GRACE: You know -- and Dr. London, if someone has baby Lisa, and we`ve seen this before where children are taken out of their home, women that want babies that can`t have them, and they`re passing the baby off as their own, will that raise any red flag if a child is taken in for a doctor`s visit?
LONDON: Only if someone has seen pictures of this child and recognizes the child. I mean, think of all the scenarios, mom just claims she`s just moved to the area, doesn`t have any of the former records, they got lost in the move. You know, as a physician you`re not going to be suspicious about that, especially a child that little isn`t talking yet, is going to bond to mom.
GRACE: Yes, yes. You`re right, Dr. London.
To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist joining us out of New York. Weigh in, Patricia.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, there are a lot of holes here, Nancy. One of them that`s bugging me is the missing three cell phones. Now infant abductions and homicides are often done by either family or people that the family know, and it looked like the person knew the inside of the house.
Maybe those phones were taken because the perp didn`t want certain information revealed. Big puzzle now.
GRACE: Good thinking, Dr. Pat. Interesting. What would have been revealed on those cell phones.
Out to the lines, Linda in Kansas. Hi, Linda. What`s your question, dear?
LINDA, CALLER FROM KANSAS: Hi, Nancy, I love your -- I love your show and I think your babies are beautiful.
GRACE: Thank you.
LINDA: My question is --
GRACE: Thank you.
LINDA: Is it normal for, you know, a stranger to come in your house, walk out through your front door, take cell phones, and the rumor is the lights were on. Is it normal? I mean, does this happen normally?
GRACE: You know what, Linda in Kansas, I`m going to go to an expert on it, but I got to tell you just from my anecdotal knowledge, it absolutely is not normal. It is not at all statistically. It`s highly improbable.
Ed Lavandera, you have covered so many cases. This is very, very improbable that a stranger, and I`m not saying it couldn`t happen, but that a stranger goes into a home, goes in through the window, turns on every light, takes the baby and the cell phones, and leaves through the front door and nobody knows a darn thing, and it all happens in 5 1/2 hours.
LAVANDERA: There`s no question. I think that`s why you`ve seen investigators here focus so much not only on the family, because as we have learned from talking to Rebecca Guerrero, the woman who checked out Lisa and her friend from that grocery store on Monday afternoon before the disappearance of baby Lisa, a lot of the questions that she got from FBI agents were asking about Deborah, Deborah`s demeanor, her state of mind, that sort of thing.
And over the last week we`ve seen investigators combing everywhere. I have been told by police investigators that they`ve checked out some 300 homes here in the immediate area, and they have also been going through all of a creek area behind the house. So clearly there`s a great deal of focus and intensity on not just the family and the immediate family members, but also friends and neighbors around here.
So you know they`re having to go down this whole list and check everybody off.
GRACE: Hey, Ed, let me ask you another question -- Ed Lavandera joining us there outside the home. Who saw the baby alive last other than the mother?
LAVANDERA: Good question. Let me try to think back on --
GRACE: The brothers?
LAVANDERA: I don`t know -- yes, obviously, the brothers would have been in the house. Those were the only three other people in the house at that time. And in terms of timeline dating back between the grocery store visit at just before 5:00 and 10:30, I`m not -- I haven`t heard of anyone else being in that house.
GRACE: We are live in Kansas City, Missouri. With us, Ed Lavandera, and the latest on the missing 10-month-old baby girl, Lisa, as critical hours pass. Where is baby Lisa?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Everyone, once again, I want to thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for supporting us on "Dancing with the Stars." After being held in jeopardy again, my partner, Tristan MacManus and I managed to make it through another week with our Paso Doble. And it was hard.
I can`t thank you enough for your votes. When I started dancing, I looked out on that dance floor, and I knew you were watching. Come Monday, my vow is to bring you a perfect rumba. And again, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, we made it through another week. And --
TRISTAN MACMANUS, NANCY GRACE`S DANCING PARTNER: Because of you. Thank you all very much. We`re safe for one more week.
GRACE: I`m so grateful for all of the e-mails, votes, phone calls. Thank you.
MACMANUS: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Thank you.
Let`s stop and remember Army 1st Lieutenant Robert Collins, 24, Tyrone, Georgia, killed Iraq. A West Point grad from a family of vets, awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal. Loved bowling, golfing, skiing, NASCAR, concerts. Georgia Tech football. Leaves behind grieving parents Burkett and Sharon. Both retired Army lieutenant colonels. Girlfriend and high school sweetheart Nicole.
Robert Collins, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
