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Joy Behar Page

Where is Baby Lisa?; Interview With Linda Evans

Aired October 13, 2011 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Kansas City cops furiously search for missing 10-month-old, Lisa Irwin. The mother claims someone snuck into their house while she was asleep and snatched the baby. Cops have yet to name a suspect, and now a mystery third party hired a private eye. We`ll have the latest on the search.

Plus nobody seems to blink when an older man pairs with a younger woman. So why are people saying Demi and Ashton`s relationship was doomed because of their age gap? A pair of sex experts will weigh in on that issue and more.

That and more starting right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, GUEST HOST: Hi, everybody, I`m Ashleigh Banfield, sitting in for Joy tonight.

And we`re going to begin in Missouri, where detectives are still hoping for a really big break in the case of the missing 11-month-old baby, Lisa Irwin. It`s been ten days since her parents say that Lisa was taken from her crib while her mom was sleeping in another room. In the days after her disappearance, they appealed to anyone who would listen.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER OF BABY LISA: She`s everything. She`s our little girl. She`s completed our family. And she means everything to my boys. And we need her home. I can`t be without her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Ash: Where is Baby Lisa? With me now to discuss this case: Ed Lavandera, CNN correspondent on location; Kathleen Zellner, who`s an attorney who has spoken with Lisa Irwin`s family; and Dan Austin, a retired NYPD detective.

Ed Lavandera, I want to start with you, give us the latest on the case today?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what`s interesting is that police continue to search areas around the home. They`ve kind of -- in the last ten days started off really intensely here in this neighborhood in the immediate areas surrounding little Lisa Irwin`s home are and we continue to see them fanning out farther and farther. We see them searching wooded areas, creek areas, ponds, that sort of thing -- even abandoned houses and that sort of thing.

That continues. These are moves that aren`t being done based on any specific tips. But it`s things that police -- now that so much time has passed or getting to and able to cross off the list and trying to check as many places as possible. I think it`s a clear sign of just how little information they have as to where this little baby`s whereabouts are at this point.

Ash: Well, can I ask you about that surveillance tape? There was such a big deal made of it when it was released. That it was the mom Deborah, who was shopping, essentially the day that she put that child to sleep. She was out shopping with a -- at the time was thought a mystery man?

A lot of people were making big hay of the fact that she was buying boxed wine. Where is that right now? And what`s the deal with that surveillance video?

LAVANDERA: Well, what`s interesting about that surveillance video is that it`s really the first time that we`ve gotten to see a glimpse of Lisa Irwin`s mom, Deborah Bradley in the hours before she said -- she told police that she had put the baby down to sleep which at 10:30 at night last Monday night.

This video was taken about 5.5 hours before that time. She walks into the grocery store with someone we`re told is very close to them, someone that her and Jeremy Irwin, Lisa`s father have been with many times. So it`s clearly someone they knew.

So the idea that it`s this mystery person, I think we`ve kind of been able to put it to bed a little bit. We talked to the store clerk that checked her out who would see her many times before and the clerk told us, look, nothing appeared out of the ordinary. Deborah looked very happy. She in fact, at one point in the video, you could see her walking out of the store smiling.

Everything seemed calm. She had asked about the babies and the kids and how they were doing. The conversation that that store clerk had had with Deborah Bradley many times before. And she tells us that everything appeared normal five and a half hours before Deborah Bradley put her baby to sleep that night.

Ash: So that may end up just being a bit of a dead end. But it certainly had a lot of tongues wagging yesterday.

I have to ask you, though, about the recent developments. We`re hearing that there are some neighbors who have been talking about potentially a handyman or a man in the vicinity of that home. Clear that up, what exactly is happening out there with regard to those stories?

LAVANDERA: As I mentioned off the top, we really -- I mean relentlessly we`ve seen officers canvassing the neighborhood. They`ve come back repeatedly. And I`ve seen them a couple of times approaching neighbors. It`s clear they`re handing people a picture of somebody. They won`t tell us exactly who it is or what they`re doing but there`ve been reports that it`s this handyman that had been in the area, that hasn`t been seen since.

Authorities haven`t felt compelled to put that picture out. They haven`t described this person as a person of interest or someone that they were, you know, are asking basically for the media`s help in trying to track down. They are saying that they`re trying to talk to everyone in the neighborhood as much as possible.

Last account that I heard, they talked to -- had gone to some 300 homes around the area. Talking to people, and going to people`s homes essentially just clearing, checking everything off the list as sites that had been checked near Lisa Irwin`s home.

Ash: And we`re watching some of these pictures of this little baby. She`s just absolutely adorable. And clearly those pictures had to have come from the family. They`ve done everything they can so far to get this out in the press, help find this little girl.

But at one point it got really weird, Ed, because there were all these reports they had stopped talking to the police. Is that still the situation? Are they talking to the police? Where does that stand?

Lavandera: They are talking to the police. This has been -- in the middle part of the investigation, the tension between the police officers and the family really kind of overshadowed everything.

So this happened on Monday of last week, about Thursday things seemed to have come to a halt. And Jeremy Irwin had said that he was tired and kind of beaten down by all of the talking with the investigators and that sort of thing. Although the family had said that, look, we didn`t stop cooperating. Authorities kind of took it as yes they had stopped cooperating.

It wasn`t until Saturday or so that kind of things -- everyone came back together. The family has been staying at a home about two miles away from where we are now. We have seen investigators continuing to come in and out of the house.

And interestingly enough, Ashleigh, the family has kind of signed on this high profile private investigator, a former New York City police officer. His name is Bill Stanton. He goes by the nickname of "Wild Bill". He tells us that he`s been brought in to help the family, to talk to them and kind of be a liaison.

So those really emotional sound bites that you saw and you played at the beginning, from the very early stages of this has kind of gone away, and you see this family much more reserved, much more serious right now.

Ash: I`ve certainly seen this play out in the past, it`s not that it`s anything sinister either.

Let me bring in Kathleen Zellner in for a moment about that and other issues as well because you`ve actually spoken to Lisa`s parents. I`m wondering what the nexus is between you all. How you came to be connected to them, and what it is you`ve been talking about, Kathleen.

KATHLEEN ZELLNER, ATTORNEY: Well, I had a very similar case in Illinois, and the father was wrongly accused and arrested and incarcerated for the murder of his daughter. And it turned out it wasn`t him. It was a perpetrator who got in the house, very similar situation, front door left open, door unlocked. The police just couldn`t imagine, since there was no signs of forced entry, that there had been a perpetrator. Finally the FBI got involved in the case, it took six years to solve it after the father had been cleared and filed a civil rights suit and all of that.

It turned out to be a sexual, you know, perpetrator who had gotten in the house, tiny house, come in through the door. Came in to rob the house, so the police realized they should have been checking out the burglary reports.

(CROSSTALK)

Ash: So did you reach out then to the Kansas City family because of your experience with -- I think that was --

ZELLNER: No, they already -- yes, they already knew about that, someone had contacted them, and they had my phone number and called. My purpose in talking to them was to tell them not to be intimidated by public opinion or guided by it.

Ash: And what about police?

Zellner: That, you know I had been through it -- also with the police, to be extremely careful.

You know, the police -- it`s fine to look at the parents, but to be interrogating the parents and accusing them of murder as the mother said within the first 11 or 12 hours isn`t the best way to get cooperation. But you know, I think the problem with police departments in these situations is a lot of times they haven`t had a lot of experience, and they`re under tremendous pressure. And we saw that in the Fox case. I mean there were so many mistakes made --

(CROSSTALK)

Ash: Well, and then on the -- I will say this, Kathleen, though, with a lot of the police detectives I`ve worked with, sometimes they`re very, very well-trained and the statistics are kind of on the side where somewhere around 80 percent or 90 percent of missing children end up being familiar or someone who is well connected.

And I want to bring Dan Austin in to do that -- good old friend of mine, Dan Austin. We`ve worked together a lot -- hold for a second Kathleen --

ZELLNER: Ok. Sure.

Ash: Dan, I know that you`ve worked on cases like this, you`ve been in the position where you`ve had to question parents. It`s got to be one of the most uncomfortable predicaments to be in. You`re looking at a grieving parent and wondering if that grieving parent is a perp.

DAN AUSTIN, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Absolutely. You have to understand something. You said it earlier. That 80 percent to 90 percent of these types of cases do involve a parent or both parents or somebody that`s a part of that immediate family because these individuals have access to these children 24/7.

And the reason that the police would have to go to them first is for that reason, and a whole variety of other reasons. Because the parents are the ones who know who came in, who might have visited the house yesterday, the day before. Because if this turns out to be a homicide investigation, as we`re well aware, most homicides are committed by somebody that we are close to, somebody we know, acquaintances.

You get into the handyman scenario. Do strangers commit these types of crimes? Absolutely; however, it`s few and far between. I`m sure when - -

Ash: Do you think sometimes, though, without pointing fingers or naming names, that some cops go way too far? They batter these people down and in the case of Kevin Fox, caused him to actually -- he confessed to killing his daughter when he didn`t do it.

AUSTIN: Well, look, there`s always that one infantile percentage that it does happen. You know, where they`re looking for a quick solve.

Ash: I think that`s what Kathleen`s talking about, sometimes you have to circle your wagons.

AUSTIN: Right, it`s far and few between. Look, I`m not going to say it happens 10 percent of the time, 20 percent of the time. It`s far and few between, it does happen. I think a case like this, it warrants the family to be looked at rather closely. I think the police department has done a great job so far.

They`ve actually done re-enactments to try to access that residence through windows, which the re-creation of a crime scene is the ultimate. I mean if you try to get into a place through an open window, which was suggested, 10 different ways or 20 different ways until Sunday and nobody can get in that window without leaving some type of trace evidence.

Ash: Then it doesn`t look that.

AUSTIN: It doesn`t look like that`s the way the individual or whoever the suspect came in.

Ash: Hold that thought for a second. And I want to say thanks to Ed Lavandera and Kathleen. Dan, I want you to sit tight for a second because we`re going to have a lot more on this case when we come back. And somebody who knows a thing or two about being on the other end of that questioning.

Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Ash: We`re back talking about the case of missing Missouri Baby Lisa Irwin. And joining us now is Ed Smart, a child protection advocate and vice president of the Elizabeth Smart Foundation. You`ll probably remember, Ed whose daughter Elizabeth dealt with this horror when she was kidnapped from her bedroom and it was nine months before Elizabeth was found alive.

Ed thank you so much for taking the time to be with us on this particular story. I just want to ask you right off the bat, the news today maybe that it might be a handyman in the neighborhood of the Irwin`s that police are looking at. And I remember it like it was yesterday, that there was this handyman issue as well. In fact, it was Brian David Mitchell was hired by you as a handyman and ended up stealing Elizabeth?

ED SMART, VICE PRESIDENT, ELIZABETH SMART FOUNDATION: Absolutely. And you never know. I mean that`s one of the things I think that people that have handymen come in, need to get background checks and try to be careful. You know, we thought we were being, but it wasn`t good enough.

But I think the importance that parents need to understand, these things do happen out there, and you need to take precautions.

Ash: And I want to speak to that. I think so often people don`t believe that the bogeyman shows up at your home and takes your child. And yet it certainly happened for you, it happened to Polly Klaas, it happened to Jessica Lunsford. It does happen and yet parents are always the first suspects. What is that like for you?

Smart: You know, I think as I hear what happened with the Irwins, I understand absolutely how they feel. I mean it seemed like we went for three or four days totally exhausted. The family has to be cleared. I mean they are -- as has been said on the show, they are the first point of interest. And until they`re out of the way, you really can`t continue on with other potentials out there because the focus diverts here or there.

And really the bottom line is, you have to find where this child is. So anyone that`s in line will basically get caught up in it, and everyone will be diverted.

Ash: Well, perhaps you had the strength and the understanding of that reality when you were considered someone who needed to be question. This is a full mea culpa, for the first time you and I are meeting on television again since 2002. But I remember sitting for an interview with you and Lois just in the first week that Elizabeth had gone missing.

And I`m feeling a little uncomfortable right now, because I recall having to ask you those tough questions. I recall the air was very tense between us. And I don`t think we ever had a relationship after that interview, but it was something I had to do.

And let me tell you, Ed, for eight years -- sorry, we`re coming up on ten, for ten years I`ve felt sick about it, and I`ve always wanted to apologize to you and have never really found the venue. I`m not sure this is the appropriate, I suppose you had to understand as uncomfortable as that interview was, that I had to ask those questions. I hope you understood?

SMART: You know, I think that that`s what parents have to understand. And one of the things that I hope does happen, is that we get advocates out there that can help the family understand what this process is. I don`t know if a card (ph) team has been brought out on the site, I hope one has because they really are able to follow a protocol.

But having an advocate to help walk the parents through this, to understand, until they`re eliminated from the process, the focus is going to continue on them, and it`s going to be hard.

I mean, I remember having the polygraph test. It came down to the point where, as a family, we didn`t care what anyone else thought. We were going to tell, because until we got ourselves out of the way, the focus would remain there. And it was not going to be focused on finding Elizabeth. It was going to be, did I do it?

Ash: In that respect, do you have advice for Deborah and Jeremy who at one point stopped talking to the police? And I believe may have drawn increasing scrutiny from the press because of that wagon circling? What are they to do?

SMART: You know, I think that at a point the parents, as I understand it was three -- at least three days into it. And you know, you get to a point of exhaustion and you`re sitting there, no more. So I can absolutely understand them pulling back. But to rest up and kind of get regenerated because you have to -- one of the most important things parents can do is try to take care of themselves. And, of course, that`s the last thing on their mind.

So as far as the parents go, I would really recommend -- make sure that they`re doing everything they can to cooperate with law enforcement. I think things have changed so much since the day that Elizabeth was abducted and we`ve seen a number of changes. But the value of working with law enforcement, getting themselves cleared away, so that they can focus. If it happens to be a handyman or some other person of interest, let`s get on to them and find out -- I mean this is really a process of elimination.

Ash: Let me ask you this, this is tough to ask, and probably tough to answer, but when you see these stories break in the news, coming from the perspective that you`re coming from, which you were in the crosshairs and you are innocent. Do you entertain the notion that this could be another Susan Smith? Or do you immediately fall on the sympathies of those parents?

SMART: You know, I can`t help but fall on the sympathies of the parents because I feel like, you know, the parents have to be looked at first, I know what that was like. That is hard, it`s not easy. You know, your life gets torn apart, but I think that you have to stay there, and stay the course, because if you want to find your child, you`ve got to participate. You`ve got to be out there, and it`s hard.

Ash: I hope you can stick with us for a moment. This conversation is certainly not over. We`re back in a moment with more on the story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Ash: We`re back talking about the case of missing Missouri Baby Lisa Irwin.

Dan Austin, former NYPD detective, let me ask you this. They`ve had over 300 tips in this case. They`ve searched the woods. They`ve searched the landfills, they`ve even looked down a well. What do you do? At this point when there`s a mystery disappearance? Apart from that, where else do you go?

AUSTIN: You have to really look way outside the box in cases like these.

Ash: I hear a mile a minute. They can go a mile a minute. And wait from --

(CROSSTALK)

AUSTIN: Yes. And you`re talking 300 leads or 300 tips. They have to pursue each and every one of them. Plus get as much information from the family as they can. You know, the law enforcement really right now looking at everything. And really they`re thinking outside the box. They`re going to be doing things that just really don`t make sense to the laymen. And people will say, why are they doing that? They`re doing that for a reason because they have to rule everything out. And that`s the reason why.

Ash: Kathleen, jump in here if you will, Kathleen Zellner. How important is it right now for the police to be dealing with forensics and a potential crime scene in this case, as opposed to the other formula, which is finding a baby?

ZELLNER: Right, well, I mean they should be, first of all, trying to find the baby. But the forensics are extremely important. They`re more important than polygraphing the parents, and those things. I mean the house should be sealed off, people shouldn`t be climbing through the windows without gloves on or gowns or walking in the house like they have been without any caps on.

I mean in Germany, in a crime scene like this -- I was talking to a forensic scientist about that yesterday -- they would probably do 500 or 600 lifts of potential DNA from latent prints from the window sill to the cups in the house to everything. That`s how many of these cases are solved. They`re not solved quickly; this isn`t going to be solved quickly. Consider the baby`s been kidnapped, that`s why you`re not finding her in the landfill, you`re not finding her dead body.

And I strongly disagree with the parents` perspective in that, yes, in the Smart case there was a handyman. In the Fox case, in the Jerry Hobbs (ph), these were complete strangers. The family didn`t know anything about them. You have to get off that tack at a certain point. This should be a nationwide effort. The country should not feel like the parents are probably guilty, so we shouldn`t be looking for the child. And they should bring in --

Ash: It can certainly -- you`re right, it can certainly be the proverbial bogeyman who has no connection with the family and it can also, as Ed Smart, mentioned --

ZELLNER: Absolutely.

Ash: And Ed, actually, I want you to just jump back into this conversation for a moment, if you would for me. Because I remember, you have a very solid community. Your community was galvanized, I remember those yellow ribbons were up for the entire nine months albeit weathered. But they never gave up hope in finding Elizabeth alive. How much does that factor into helping parents to get through this?

SMART: You know, I think that that plays a huge part for the parents. That first morning coming down to the Shriners Hospital and seeing this line-up of people that were there to help find Elizabeth. I know Lois and I both felt that we were going to find her. That with this community coming together, all aspects of it, you know, how could we not find her? And it brought us a lot of hope. So, you know, the support of the community is huge, and it`s so important.

Ash: Ed, Kathleen, Dan, thank you so much.

We`re back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Tabloids continue to circle around Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore. "Us Weekly" has an interview with a woman who`s claiming to have had an affair with Kutcher who had been married to Moore since 2005. Well, some critics are saying it was just a matter of time actually before Kutcher strayed since Moore is 15 years older. Is that fair? Is it fair?

Here to discuss is Dr. Laura Berman, host of "In the Bedroom" and author of "Loving Sex: The Book of Joy and Passion." And Ian Kerner, sex therapist, relationship counselor and founder of Goodinbed.com. My favorite website, I just love the name of it alone.

Please, everyone always says, she`s so much older, it can`t last. What the what? Start with me, why is this always an issue when women are older?

IAN KERNER, SEX THERAPIST: You know, I think what we`re learning otherwise, especially in terms of libido and sex. I don`t think that a younger man and an older woman is a mismatch. I mean, recently on Goodinbed we did a survey with the support of KY brand on the subject of orgasm. We went and surveyed--

BANFIELD: We can say that?

KERNER: We can say it. Orgasms.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Just checking, OK.

KERNER: I`ve said it before. And so we surveyed nearly 5,000 people, and the vast majority of women said, that as they got older, they entered an orgasm prime. So they were experiencing better orgasms, more frequent orgasms. So I think an older woman and a younger guy libido-wise actually really works out. It`s honestly it`s guys like me, 40 and up, like we`re the ones who can`t keep up.

BANFIELD: And what`s interesting is so many people right away go to the age gap, but when it comes to men who have spouses or partners who are so much younger, let me just give you a couple of great examples. I love these examples because they don`t get much scrutiny. It kills me. Rupert Murdoch, you`re 80, but your wife Wendy is 42. And if you do the math, she`s 38 years younger, that`s almost my entire age. It`s driving me nuts even saying it. Renee Angelil. If you don`t know him, you sure do know his wife. He`s 69 and his wife Celine Dion is 43. That would be 26 years difference. And here`s one you might not remember the name but you probably know the story. Doug Hutchinson, who`s 51, his newly betrothed Courtney Alexis Dutton (ph) is 17. It`s like a furball that gets caught right in my throat. There`s 35 years between the two, and they met when she was just 16 years old. Sure, that one made big headlines because I think it`s on a reality show or some other junk.

But the reality is, no one talks very much about Rupert and Wendy being unbearably 38 years difference, nor the others. And I could go on and on when it comes to the men. Why on earth? Please tell me. Is it not such a big deal when there`s like generations between men who are older than their women.

DR. LAURA BERMAN, HOST, "IN THE BEDROOM": And for generations, there have been generations between men and younger women. And part of it is a sexist thing. That in our society, and other societies, it`s not this way, but as women historically, it`s changing. As we age, we gain less social power, while men gain more. The older man is much more successful, has more resources, even back to caveman times.

BANFIELD: AKA can take care of me, because I need to be taken care of?

BERMAN: Or the caveman who can bring home the biggest chunk of meat. You know, from the beginning of time, women have been attracted to men with resources.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Up until recently, until the Demi`s and Eva Longoria`s and all of those great women who were seen in the media dating younger men, we didn`t have -- I mean, Mrs. Roper was our model from "Three`s Company." Remember her?

BANFIELD: Was she older than Mr. Roper?

BERMAN: No, but she had a high sex drive. She was into sex. She was a sexy older woman.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: I want to throw some ideas out there, for those who are trying to think, well, how many women out there in the press really get skewered for having the younger man. Have a listen. Madonna who`s 53, I remember Jose Luz (ph) was a boytoy. But now she`s with a guy named Graham Zaibad (ph) I`m sorry if I pronounced it wrong. She`s 53, he`s 24. That`s 29 years difference. Debra Lee Furnace (ph) is married to Hugh Jackman. She`s 56, and he`s 43. That`s just a little 13-year difference, and yet we always hear about how much older she is than he. And Linda Hogan, one of my personal favorites, is 52, and her fiance -- hey baby, literally baby -- Charlie Hill is 22. There`s 30-year age difference between them, and nary a headline goes by about these characters where it`s not all about how much older this woman is than this men.

And here`s what kills me. I get it, it`s a double standard, but it doesn`t go away. It`s gone away for these men, but it doesn`t go away for Demi.

KERNER: You know, my prediction is it`s really going to continue to go away. It`s going to start to erode. I meet women every day --

BANFIELD: When, when?

KERNER: I think it`s happening. I wouldn`t say this if I did not meet women who were not just patients, but friends, colleagues, older women in their 40s, 50s, single again, sometimes always single, and they are going out with the younger guys. They are going online, they`re using dating sites, they are finding younger guys, and they are talking about the hot sex that they`re having. So if I didn`t -- I see this every day, and so I think that this stereotype is going to continue to erode. I think the double standard is going to continue to erode.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Are you nodding yes?

BERMAN: I -- no -- I do agree with him. And I think there are major advantages. Ian alluded to one, which was that the older woman typically takes longer to sexually respond. She`s having changes in her sexual response and hormonally--

BANFIELD: Either I`m going through menopause or I`m just really embarrassed right now.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Think about it, a younger man has enough va-va-voom.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: This next story is actually absolutely crazy. It`s called mind blowing sex. I`m sure you heard about it on "Sex and the City" or something else, but it really just got a whole new meaning because if you didn`t think that sex could literally blow your mind or make you lose your mind, it actually did happen to a woman who said she ended up in the emergency room one hour after having sex. And it literally is a serious, real condition. Transient global amnesia.

KERNER: Yes. Global transient amnesia. It`s a really rare phenomena. Scientists don`t really know a lot about what causes it. I have to be honest, when it comes to sexual amnesia, I meet a lot of people, I`m sure -- Laura does too -- who want to forget the sex that they`ve had. Maybe if we can figure out why it`s happening, some people would actually want to cause some sexual amnesia, especially when it comes to faking the orgasm.

BERMAN: Basically when you have an orgasm, a lot of -- your brain is washed in oxytocin. That cuddle hormone, which is why you don`t want to have sex with someone you don`t want to be attached to, and it also gets really oxygenated. Many experts believe that that`s a potential cure or at least can stave off Alzheimer`s, lots of orgasms. But it`s a lot of pressure on your parasympathetic and your sympathetic nervous systems. And I hear all sorts of reports. Lots of women say that they cry unexplainably after orgasm or laugh unexplainably or get horrible headaches. Things can happen in the brain. Usually they are transient and not a big deal.

BANFIELD: But those things are more emotional and psychological rather than physiological.

BERMAN: No, they`re physical.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: She`s thrilled, she is not at all sad, but tears are pouring down her face.

BANFIELD: So that`s not just I`m married to a nut job.

BERMAN: Or I`m crying for the joy of it all. She`s just like literally not understanding why she`s crying.

BANFIELD: Phenomenal. Then I read somewhere about this crazy amnesia, and they think that it might actually have something to do with your neck and the vascular system in your neck, that the blood is supposed to be draining away from your brain, deoxygenating. But--

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: You can do this in exercise. They even say going to the bathroom could cause this kind of stress and pressure that sends the blood kind of back up.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: It blocks it and then pushes the unoxygenated blood back into the brain. So -- and that can cause you to be a little dingy, but it`s temporary.

BANFIELD: That sounds logical. Except that in this study they found that it only happens to people once. It doesn`t happen to them a second or a third time. So how does that --

BERMAN: The body and the brain is an amazing thing. Who knows. They don`t even really fully understand -- this is a theory that the lack of oxygen in blood leads to the transient amnesia. It only lasted for like 20 minutes or something.

BANFIELD: How many people get this, by the way? How many people literally have mind blowing sex?

KERNER: Three out of 100,000. It`s extremely rare.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Quick question for you. Is this whole sort of notion that some can be psychological, some can be physiological, kind of the reason why we don`t really have good female stimulation products on the market now? I mean, we got loads of Viagra and Cialis.

BERMAN: We do. Here is the thing--

BANFIELD: But (inaudible) doesn`t work.

BERMAN: Well, Viagra, Cialis, that`s not what I`m talking about. But there are options available to women, not as many as men. And there was a really cool survey that just came out called the healthy woman survey. Over 1,000 women who were post-menopausal. And the problem is that 45 percent of them are having dryness, one in four of them are having pain. 7 in 10 of them don`t necessarily want to have sex because of this, and they`re not aware that there are treatments available.

BANFIELD: That would change all that.

BERMAN: That would change it. Over the counter remedies, estrogen creams, there are -- but they are too embarrassed to talk to their doctor.

KERNER: Personal lubricants.

BERMAN: Personal lubricants. Let`s just say toys. I mean, there`s so many options out there for women. And we`re remaining so vibrant and active.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: They can`t get television ad space. I mean, Viagra gets ad space, but these other female products don`t get the same distribution.

BERMAN: And that has definitely happened.

BANFIELD: Speaking of surveys, just quickly, I wanted to ask you because I know you know about this crazy survey about women tending to be more wild and risque in bed. Is it true or is this one of those --

KERNER: No, we did the survey, we did the survey with KY on both relationship boredom and sexual adventurousness. And what we found that was that 50 percent of people were bored in their relationships, but over 50 percent of people really wanted to do something new in the bedroom, and were really up for some sexual adventure. So we went and we surveyed over 350 people about what are you up for doing, and the results came back, they were really interesting. The thing that I was most stunned by was that women were by far more sexual adventurous than men.

BANFIELD: Does that mean they`re more bored? Looking for something new.

BERMAN: And it`s also a transition between being willing to try new things and being able to bring it up to a partner.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Dr. Laura and Ian, thanks so much. Great conversation. Nice and candid, and you didn`t blush once.

We`ll be right back, coming back with Linda Evans. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Linda Evans became a household name back in the `80s when she played Crystal Carrington in the hit nighttime soap opera "Dynasty." Have a peek.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You miserable bitch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Linda`s got act two, though, she`s written a brand new book about her life, her loves, her career and also has a few of her favorite recipes thrown in just to make it spicy. She`s joining me now. Linda Evans, actress extraodinaire. It`s called "Recipes for Life: My Memories," and yet this is recipes, this is your story, this is your friends, this is -- I mean, it`s kind of Crystal and Linda all mixed into a guacamole or something, right?

LINDA EVANS, ACTRESS: OK. That`s an interesting way to put it. Yes.

BANFIELD: How did you come up with this idea for sort of a recipe memoir?

EVANS: Well, I didn`t start with it as a recipe memoir. I went, OK, I`m 65, what am I going to do with the rest of my life. And I thought, I`m going to do something different. I thought, anyone an just write a memoir, and I loved cooking, and in the `80s, they asked me to do a cookbook but I had no time because of "Dynasty." And I thought about, wow, if I could do what I love the most, which is cooking, and mix that in, weave it in with my love of people and my life, and all those stories in my life, that I could do something different. I also had a huge collection of pictures. And I could --

BANFIELD: I love these. I`ve been flipping through and taking a peek. I love -- first, I love 80s styles. I wish I could wear them today, but I probably wouldn`t get a job if I did that.

Let me get into some of the juicy stuff, because I love the juicy stuff. You write about your marriage to John Derek. And what I found -- obviously since the segment we just did a little bit ago was about older women, older men with younger men, younger women. You were 16 years difference? He was 16 years older? Did anybody ever make a big stink about it?

EVANS: It wouldn`t have mattered, to tell you the truth, because I saw him in a movie when I was 13 and I fell in love with him. I put a picture of him over my bed and I said, I was going to marry him. So I was going to marry him. I didn`t care what anybody said if there was a 40 years difference.

BANFIELD: He was almost 30?

EVANS: Doesn`t matter. I mean, to me, when you`re in love, age doesn`t matter.

BANFIELD: Was it a great marriage?

EVANS: It was a fabulous marriage, it was a fabulous marriage in that I can honestly say it`s one of those things where you wake up every day and you look at the person, and you say, my God, I love him so much, how can this be possible?

BANFIELD: So then the heartbreak that you reveal in the book is that he takes a peak over at a 15-year-old by the name now we all know as Bo Derek, and falls for a 15-year-old and leaves you?

EVANS: Shocked me, shocked me because I thought we had a great marriage. That was the hardest part. Was just my life had to be completely adjusted. I didn`t know what to do. As I say in the book, I wanted to die. I thought it would be easier just to get out of life than to deal with what I was looking at that happened.

BANFIELD: What I couldn`t believe, although I suppose if she was 15 it`s not really her fault, but you are great friends with Bo, and maintained a great friendship?

EVANS: Eventually we became friends. But in the moment, of course there was -- they were in Europe, I didn`t see them for a year or two. What was the best thing about it for me, is I realized in wanting to die and getting thinner and thinner, and just being at home feeling sorry for myself, he called me one day like 3:00 in the morning, and said, are you dating? I thought, am I dating? My God, I`m trying to die.

(CROSSTALK)

EVANS: And then I realized, then I realized, why am I dying for him? If this is what he`s thinking, like don`t make me feel guilty, you know, get a life so I can feel OK about what I`ve done, why am I going to die for him? I turned my mind to myself, called my agent, got jobs, found another guy, married him, and my life went on. And I thought, oh my God.

BANFIELD: And your life -- I mean, you had the lifestyle of the rich and famous all the time, you had this very long relationship with Yanni. Everyone knows, he`s a new age musician, famous for his concerts at (ph) the Acropolis (ph). There the two of you are together. He was 12 years younger?

EVANS: Yes.

BANFIELD: How serendipitous that you would be here today when we`re talking about the Demi and Ashton relationship and all these issue where people say, doomed from the beginning. Is that the case?

EVANS: You know, love doesn`t care about any of those details. If you`ve ever been in love, and I must say, these two are the great loves of my life, I wouldn`t have missed it for the world. Doesn`t have to be forever. Nothing has to be forever.

BANFIELD: Did you suffer that same garbage that Demi and Ashton go through, about you`re the older woman, it can`t possibly last?

EVANS: No, no, it wasn`t like -- it wasn`t that bad then.

BANFIELD: Probably because you always looked 17?

EVANS: No, but it wasn`t that bad then. But it doesn`t matter what they say. Would you miss that relationship? Would you miss that magical thing that you have with each other, because it ends? I mean, to me, love is worth being in love, whatever that means for as ever long it is.

BANFIELD: I touched on you looking 17. I got to be honest with you, one of the things I couldn`t believe about your book was that in Hollywood nobody says how old he or she is. Particularly the shes. And yet just about every page, you`re talking about how old you were when this happened, how old you were when that happened. And then you tell everybody how old you are now? You`re 68?

EVANS: I`ll be 69 next month.

BANFIELD: You don`t look it. I`m sure everybody tells you.

EVANS: The thing is, I would love to change how society looks at aging. Because firstly, we`re all living to 80, 90 years of age, so guess what, we better have a better attitude about it because it`s actually wonderful. You get wiser as you get older.

BANFIELD: Yes, but is the wisdom worth it? Everybody always asks, would you rather be smart or pretty?

EVANS: Oh my God. You would choose pretty? I don`t think so.

BANFIELD: I didn`t say I`d choose that.

EVANS: I don`t think so.

BANFIELD: I would have a tough time making the choice, though, I`ll tell you, often I wonder the way we are today.

Hold that thought for a second because when we come back in a moment, skinny minny beside me here who`s absolutely gorgeous and has a cookbook is going to tell me what it is she eats to be happy. Coming back in a minute with Linda Evans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Back now with actress Linda Evans, and we are talking about her brand new book "Recipes for Life: My Memoirs," but really talking about the other juicy stuff as well in your incredible life.

I don`t think anybody who knows you and your iconic image can separate you from these phenomenal battles royal that you had with Joan Collins. Her character being Alexis.

EVANS: Right.

BANFIELD: On that set, I mean, you guys had it out. It was physical and it looked real. Did you ever have like an issue with her in real life? I mean, it really looked like you were drawing it from somewhere?

EVANS: No, we are actors, you know, we have a script and you have to do the script.

BANFIELD: Look at this! Look at the two of you. You`re incredible.

EVANS: Well, we were paid to do that, I mean, that`s our job. You were supposed to fight, and we`d fight. We had a lot of laughs doing it.

(CROSSTALK)

EVANS: I have to tell you, the one in the lily pond, we were on our knees -- it was short, only three or four feet of water, so we had to fake it.

BANFIELD: And this was the kind of show where it was all about the glam, the hair, the makeup, the jewelry, the outfits. How many takes would you have had to do to get those fight scenes right?

EVANS: We did that one in the lily pond all day. So most of them we did all day, because they were so looked forward to, I mean, they would build it up in the show, in the series--

(CROSSTALK)

EVANS: Well, Barbara Stanwyck taught me to do stunts, so it was a real bonding love thing that we had. So to me stunts were fun. It was like a great thing to do.

BANFIELD: Do you and Joan Collins keep up?

EVANS: Keep up?

BANFIELD: Yeah, do you chat? Do you guys keep in touch?

EVANS: No, no, but most of the people on the show, I mean, we are spread all over the world. It is not possible. John Forsythe, I absolutely just kept in touch with him until like three weeks before his death.

BANFIELD: Really?

EVANS: I talked to him all the time.

BANFIELD: What did he say?

EVANS: What did he say? We talked, no, we talked all the time. We didn`t just talk three weeks before his death. We`ve talked since "Dynasty."

BANFIELD: But anything telling just before he died, did he say anything particularly that sticks with you?

EVANS: No, it wasn`t about that. As a matter of fact, we joked every time we talked. He`d say, is the sun out yet in Washington state? No, he was always teasing me.

BANFIELD: I have to ask you about what you eat, what`s your favorite, if you had to take one recipe to the deserted island, what would it be?

EVANS: Oh my God, I am torn, because I am a major lemon lover and chocolate lover.

BANFIELD: That is not going to help you on a deserted island, my friend.

(CROSSTALK)

EVANS: What? Chocolate? Oh my God? Chocolate souffle pudding in here, chocolate molten desert--

BANFIELD: I saw you`re a potato, egg and cheese girl?

EVANS: I am a potato, egg and cheese girl.

BANFIELD: With a body like that?

EVANS: Do you know what I do?

BANFIELD: Tell me, please.

EVANS: I walk an hour every day in the morning, first thing in the morning, 7:00 in the morning, get out, walk for an hour, hour and 15 minutes. It raises my metabolism, and I walk because it lets me eat what I want. I don`t do the slim low-carbohydrate thing, I eat everything.

BANFIELD: There is the secret now to life. All you need to do was say, Linda Evans, I walk an hour a day to look like this. Pleasure to meet you. It`s a real--

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: -- every single week. A real treat. Thanks so much. Her book is called "Recipes for Life: My Memories." Linda Evans. Stay tuned, "Showbiz Tonight," for our latest on the troubles between Ashton and Demi, the alleged mistress speaks out. Thanks so much for watching, everybody. It`s good to see you. Good night, bye bye.

END