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Nancy Grace
Handyman Sought in Missouri Infant Disappearance
Aired October 13, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, the heartland. A 10- month-old baby girl sleeping in a crib just feet away from her own mother, Daddy working the night shift, goes missing without a trace, front door unlocked, front window open, every cell phone gone. Grainy surveillance video emerges of Mommy shopping with a mystery man at a local store just hours before the baby vanishes. What does Mommy buy? Baby food and a big, honkin` box of wine.
Bombshell tonight. We ID the mystery man, as police on the lookout for a neighborhood handyman spotted near baby Lisa`s home the night she disappeared. At this hour, police amassing video of family, friends, neighbors to spot inconsistencies in their statements.
And get this, the local TV stations are fighting the cops on the video. They won`t hand it over. What`s wrong with them? Don`t they want to find baby Lisa?
And tonight, we obtain the 911 call just moments after baby Lisa reported missing. The family moves out of the family home, vowing never to return. As the baby`s parents meet with a high-powered defense lawyer and an abandoned home takes center stage, tonight, where is 10-month-old baby Lisa?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is the baby? Seriously, where`s the baby?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police brought out ATVs and search dogs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be advised he didn`t witness anything and they don`t know how long she`s been gone. He noticed the screen is busted and his 10-month-old daughter is missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They looked through dumpsters, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is what makes me so sad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone was looking for a handyman. And one neighbor told us there`s, like, this -- you know, there`s a handyman on every corner here.
GRACE: Mommy says she`s taken a polygraph and she`s afraid she failed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Call the tips hotline if you know where she`s at!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shopping with a mystery man.
GRACE: I know that polygraphs typically are not affected by emotions because everybody is uptight and emotional when they take a polygraph.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Firefighters went down into the well about 30 feet deep.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their investigation focusing on baby Lisa`s bedroom when she put her daughter to bed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The day Lisa was reported missing was a Tuesday. And Tuesday is trash day around here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want them to bring Lisa back home now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. A 10-month-old baby girl sleeping in a crib just feet away from her own mother goes missing without a trace. Tonight, we ID the mystery man caught on surveillance. Police on the lookout for a neighborhood handyman spotted near baby Lisa`s home the night she disappears.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby Lisa has been missing from her home here in Kansas City 10 days now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please! Bring her home!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s out there. She`s somebody`s daughter somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we`re getting an interesting look in the hours before Deborah Bradley, Lisa`s mother, told police that she had put the baby down to sleep, which was 10:30 last Monday night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No suspects, no leads.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing we know is that this 10-month-old belongs in this house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby`s mother, Deborah Bradley, was the last person to see Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I woke up when he came home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then I checked on her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Surveillance camera footage from a nearby grocery store that shows Deborah Bradley walking in with a friend. She spent about six minutes inside the store.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If something happened in the home and you were responsible, then you do know more.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, She`s not in her crib. I said, What do you mean she`s not in her crib?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dad comes home at 4:00 AM.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The front door was unlocked.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom told the police that she had gone to that supermarket and made those purchases. There`s nothing strange about that at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. Tonight, baby Lisa missing. A 10-month-old baby girl just feet away from her own mother goes missing in the middle of the night. When Daddy gets home from the night shift, he finds the front door unlocked, a screen pushed in, a window open, all the lights on in the home and all the cell phones missing.
You`re seeing home video of baby Lisa Irwin from YouTube. Take a look, this baby gone from her own home. Tonight, we obtain 911 calls just after baby Lisa reported missing. And a local handyman under the spotlight.
Straight out to Ed Lavandera. He`s joining us from Kansas City, Missouri. He`s there at the Irwin home. Ed, thank you for being with us. Everybody, we`re taking your calls live in our search for baby Lisa.
Ed, what can you tell me? What are the developments?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, just moments ago, we started seeing these YouTube videos that you mentioned. I`m sure you`ll be showing a lot of them tonight. I mean, it really gets to the heart of what this story is about, and it`s that beautiful girl. And we spent some time this afternoon looking at those tapes. It`s video that family members told us they want people to be able to see to kind of keep the image of baby Lisa out there in the public.
As far as the investigative front, we know that authorities are continuing their search and we see them continue to focus on the area around here. We know that they`ve continued going throughout various parts of this neighborhood. They`ve been searching another wooded area, as well, today. That search continues.
But authorities stress these searches aren`t based on any specific concrete leads that they have. It`s just something that they want to do to continue fanning out from this area, from this -- if you want to call this ground zero, and moving away from here, continuing to search any possibilities about where baby Lisa might be.
GRACE: Ed Lavandera, we`re seeing video of a big clearing. It looks like it may be a dump. Now, baby Lisa goes missing in the early, early morning hours, we think, on a Monday. It`s a landfill. That`s what we`re showing right now, Ed Lavandera. Is it correct that the trash gets picked up on Tuesday?
LAVANDERA: Yes, I heard that mentioned at the top. I wasn`t really clear about that, although having heard that, I don`t know if that would have made, you know, much of a difference because the father came home at 4:00 o`clock in the morning. By then, that baby would have been reported missing. I don`t know of any trash men that work in the middle of the night, picking up -- I don`t know if that`s the way it`s done here. I`m betting it`s not, so...
GRACE: Well, hold on.
LAVANDERA: ... I don`t think the trash would have been...
GRACE: Hold on! Hold on!
LAVANDERA: ... picked up...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait! What day of the week did baby Lisa go missing? What day, not date, what day? Was it a Monday at 10:00 o`clock at night, or was it a Tuesday morning?
LAVANDERA: It was a Monday night about 10:30 is when police say that Deborah Bradley told them that she had put baby Lisa down to sleep, 10:30 on Monday night. Move into the overnight hours, 4:00 o`clock Tuesday morning is when the father came home and discovered that the crib was empty and then called police. So somewhere between 10:30 PM last Monday night and 4:00 AM in the morning on Tuesday.
GRACE: OK. So what about this scenario, Ed Lavandera, that the child is put in the trash sometime on Monday? I mean we don`t know -- nobody so far, unless there`s a new development, has seen the baby, other than the mother, since 10:30 PM on Monday night. So for all I know, that baby could have been in the trash at 7:00 PM on Monday. The trash gets taken out on Tuesday morning, and that baby`s headed to a landfill.
LAVANDERA: I understand what you`re saying, but I think what happened here -- at 4:00 o`clock in the morning, within minutes, this neighborhood was filled with police officers and officers canvassing the neighborhood. You have to imagine that one of the first things they checked would be a trash can in the back of the home.
So I`m assuming they would have done that, and that obviously -- I mean, I can`t imagine that that would have been something that would have slipped through what they were checking, considering how many officers swarmed on this neighborhood the moment that call came in.
GRACE: You know what, Ed Lavandera? You`re right. And I`m going to find out if, in fact, they did check the trash cans. Ed, so much is happening. We have now identified the mystery man that was shopping and caught on surveillance video with Mommy buying baby food and a big box of wine. Who is he?
LAVANDERA: Well, we`ve done some reporting on that. When we were talking to you yesterday, we hadn`t gotten a clear picture. What we had been told by the store clerk is that it was definitely someone she had seen with the family before many times, so we kind of put aside any idea that there was something suspicious going on.
But we found out today, confirmed by family members, that that man that you see is actually Deborah Bradley`s brother. So obviously, a family member would not be out of the ordinary for Deborah to be getting...
GRACE: Right. So...
LAVANDERA: ... a ride to the grocery store...
GRACE: ... it`s the brother.
LAVANDERA: ... from her brother.
GRACE: Everybody, joining me in front of the Irwin home is Ed Lavandera. We`re here with an all-star line-up for you and taking your calls.
Out to Jane in Missouri. Hi, Jane. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for taking my call, Nancy. And I respect you for everything you do for all those out there missing.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question. Did they ever have a baby- sitter that somebody would know the inside of the home that maybe...
GRACE: Excellent question. To Matt Zarrell. What do we know? Who ever takes -- who took care of the baby, other than the mom and dad, do we know yet?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, we`re still trying to figure that out. And one of the big questions here is who besides Deborah Bradley, the mother, was the last person to see baby Lisa? We know where the mother was. At 5:00 o`clock, she was at the grocery store. We know that she told cops that at 10:30, she saw the baby in her crib. But between those hours, we don`t know who has seen the baby other than this mother.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Eleanor Odom, senior attorney with the National District Attorneys Association. She is death penalty-qualified, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, Atlanta, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta.
Eleanor, I`ve learned through the grapevine that, apparently, a high- powered lawyer out of Chicago has now been in contact and in conversations with the parents. That lawyer`s claim to fame? She got a guy off who was charged with the kidnap and murder of his baby girl, and now she`s in touch with this family.
Weigh in, Eleanor Odom.
ELEANOR ODOM, NATIONAL DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ASSOC.: Well, clearly, the family is going with someone who has a proven track record, Nancy, and that makes me a little anxious, that they would choose that particular lawyer and that they need a lawyer right now.
But also, has anybody talked to this brother, the man who was with the mom in the grocery store? Nobody`s even mentioned that. Why aren`t we talking to him and hearing what exactly was going on in those hours?
GRACE: Weigh in, Renee Rockwell.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t know what`s so suspicious about someone getting a lawyer. They`ve already cooperated with the police. They`ve taken a polygraph. The police keep going back, going back, going back to the point of harassment. I see nothing wrong with getting a high-powered lawyer.
GRACE: Renee? Renee? You know, you and I both have had tragedy strike our lives where someone we loved was killed, yours in a crash, mine through a murder. I don`t recall hiring a high-powered criminal defense attorney when I was a crime victim. I don`t recall you hiring a high- powered criminal defense attorney when you were a crime victim. So what makes this any different? Why are they talking to defense lawyers?
ROCKWELL: I think, Nancy, it`s because the police keep swinging back around and wanting to talk...
GRACE: So?
ROCKWELL: ... and keep talking and talking. Nobody was asking you because they knew what happened in your fiance`s murder or in my husband`s crash. In this situation, I think the parents are tired and they want the police to go elsewhere to find out what`s going on.
GRACE: What about it, Peter?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree with Renee. The police keep going back at these people. They want to talk to -- these people are grieving and -- well, they can`t even grieve. They are in...
GRACE: They`re grieving?
PETER ODOM: ... tragedy -- they`re in tragedy...
GRACE: Why are they grieving?
PETER ODOM: Well, as I said, Nancy, they can`t even...
GRACE: There`s no suggestion the baby is dead.
PETER ODOM: They can`t even start grieving because their baby is missing and the police keep pestering them. I would hire a lawyer, too.
GRACE: You know what? Why -- put him on the screen, please!
PETER ODOM: Put me back up.
GRACE: Peter Odom, why are you saying that they`re grieving? Number one, the baby has not been declared dead. And number two, it seems to me if they`re looking for the baby, the first thing they should do is cooperate with police.
PETER ODOM: Well, "grieving" is probably the wrong word. Their lives have been...
GRACE: Yes, it was.
PETER ODOM: ... turned upside-down by a missing child, Nancy. And the police keep coming back at them. And I would hire a lawyer under those circumstances, too, and I`d want a good one if I could afford it.
GRACE: We are live in Kansas City, Missouri. As the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of a 10-month-old baby girl increase, tonight, where is baby Lisa?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing we know is that this 10-month-old belongs in this house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby`s mother, Deborah Bradley, was the last person to see Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone suggested they check the old well or cistern. Firefighters went down into the well about 30 feet deep. No sign of 11-month-old Lisa Irwin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Several developments going on today. There are -- searches continue in the area here near the home of where baby Lisa was abducted from.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very likely that the mom slept through any incident that occurred in the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had come home from work. It was the middle of the night. But what he said was so strange, almost every light in the house was on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you on your area canvas?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finishing up with the neighbor from across the street now. Will contact you in a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we understand that there are detectives that are going through a wooded area not too far away.
GRACE: This is a 10-month-old baby. The baby can`t walk. The baby can`t run. So why are they looking in a pond or a wooded area?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father said that there were -- that whoever did this knew their way in and around the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What we heard from the parents is they took a break. We don`t know how long this was going on. Maybe these poor parents were questioned for 10 hours. They`re emotional.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are also other crews that are going through a nearby pond, a large pond that is not too far away from this home, as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He started walking around the house. He checked on his boys. They were fine. And then he checked on his little baby girl and she was missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live in Kansas City, Missouri, in the search for baby Lisa. We are taking your calls live.
To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers." You know, I keep hearing that the parents needed a break from the police investigation. Why?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: You know, when someone says, I need a break, it`s just a rationalization or an excuse to get away from another person. And what I wonder if they were asking the mom was, Was this a wanted baby? Was this a happy marriage? And were they having financial problems?
GRACE: Good point, Bethany. Joining me right now, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com. Alexis, I understand police are now on the lookout for a local handyman -- some people think he may even be homeless -- that was spotted near baby Lisa`s home in the hours before she goes missing. What do you know?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Well, there`s a man -- his nickname is Jersey. He`s one of the local men that lives around -- well, he`s homeless, but he`s around the neighborhood a lot. He, in fact, was very drunk in a bar, according to a bar owner, just a few nights before the baby went missing. He`s also been spotted in the neighborhood, so the police are trying to find him.
But you know what? They can`t find him. They haven`t been able to locate him in a couple of days, and they really want to talk to him. Even if he`s not involved, they want to see if he knows anything, if he saw anyone, if he was wandering around the neighborhood late at night.
GRACE: Got it.
TERESZCUK: They definitely want to question him.
GRACE: Well, as a matter of fact, joining me right now is Steve McConnell. He`s the owner of One-Eyed Jacks bar. Cops came and asked him about the patron, let me say, named Jersey. Steve, thank you for being with us. When cops came to question you about this guy, this handyman, this local handyman, what did they want to know and what did you tell them?
STEVE MCCONNELL, OWNER, ONE-EYED JACKS BAR (via telephone): Well, the cops actually didn`t come in and talk to me, Nancy, about that. They just came in and checked on some surveillance. The handyman deal has been talked to more through the reporters that have contacted me on that.
GRACE: What can you tell us about him?
MCCONNELL: He lived down the street probably about a quarter of a mile from our place. He lived with some other guys and a gal. They lived there for several months. Never seen him before that. And then just here recently, a few weeks ago, they -- everyone moved out except him, and he had no place to go. And my understanding is he`s just been kind of wandering around the neighborhood.
GRACE: Everybody, we are live in Kansas City, Missouri, cops focusing in on an abandoned home, a local handyman and all the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of 10-month-old baby Lisa. Tip line, 816- 747-8477. There is a reward.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A neighbor told Fox 4 news she saw a man walking in the neighborhood with a baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a bad guy out there or bad people with this child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re working hard in all directions, no doubt about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody`s sleeping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These folks have been up around the clock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody`s eating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re still full steam ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t be without her!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our main priority, our number one goal is to find this child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Call the tips hotline if you know where she`s at!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think our detectives are doing what people would expect they were doing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The latest search, a lot of people here searching for Lisa Irwin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are back and taking your calls. Back to Ed Lavandera, who`s joining us outside the family home there in Irwin -- the Irwin home there in Kansas City, Missouri. Ed, I understand that the family has moved out of the home. Why?
LAVANDERA: I think they were tired of all the attention here. They`ve gone off to a house about two miles -- a relative`s home about two miles away from where they are. And obviously, there are people who followed them there. We`ve seen over the course of the last few days officers going in and out of the house. I`m not sure if they`ve been going down to police headquarters or FBI offices to continue talking to them, but we`ve also seen...
GRACE: Right.
LAVANDERA: ... investigators coming repeatedly to that home there.
GRACE: Ed, I want to talk about this homeless guy. We just spoke with Steve McConnell, the owner of One-Eyed Jacks bar there. Cops came and asked patrons at the bar about this guy. I`m trying to get my head around this. So that theory would be that a homeless guy comes into the home, he doesn`t steal things, he doesn`t grab money, he doesn`t get any food. He turns on all the lights, takes the cell phones and the baby and leaves? Is that the scenario?
LAVANDERA: That would -- that would be the scenario, which, obviously, you know, the way you`re kind of talking about it kind of, you know, suggests that -- look, who knows what`s going on here.
But we`ve spoken with neighbors and we just had a fascinating conversation with one neighbor in particular who talked about how officers have been showing around this picture of this -- they`re not even calling it a person of interest, aren`t even acknowledging that they`re actually doing this. But we`ve heard from neighbors that they`ve -- they`re showing around this picture.
The neighbor that we spoke with said that they had actually seen this person about two months ago in a nearby park. And they had this conversation. The guy was looking for work. And then all of a sudden, the conversation stopped. He pulled out a long knife to peel an orange.
GRACE: Oh. To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. What do you think, Marc?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, I`d like to talk a little bit about the lawyer. I think that hiring a lawyer changes the focus from the baby to the parents. The lawyer is hired to protect the interests of the mom and dad, not to recover baby Lisa. Also the public perception that if they`ve hired a lawyer, particularly one with this area of expertise, what exactly is it they`re hiding?
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, when your daughter, Polly, went missing, as I recall, you didn`t rush out and hire a criminal defense lawyer, did you?
KLAAS: I didn`t hire anybody.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Report of a residential burglary in progress, North Lister. Contact Jeremy. Respond Code 1.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jeremy Irwin calls 911 to report his 10-month- old baby daughter, Lisa, was missing from her crib.
DEBORAH BRADLEY, MISSING 10-MONTH-OLD INFANT`S MOTHER: Our two other boys are waiting for her. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He noticed the screen is busted and 10-month- old daughter is missing. He advised he didn`t witness anything and they don`t know how long she`s been gone.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Only hours before baby Lisa was reportedly abducted, mommy is at this nearby grocery store with this strange man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And return Lisa home safely.
BRADLEY: Just drop her off anywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As the search for this little baby girl continues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew then that they must be searching for the baby Lisa.
BRADLEY: We don`t care, just somewhere safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you on your area canvas?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finishing up with a neighbor from across the street now. Will contact you in a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Call me on my cell ASAP.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live in Kansas City, Missouri, taking your calls. With us on the scene, Ed Lavandera.
A 10-month-old baby girl goes missing in the middle of the night. Mommy says she`s sleeping just feet away from her baby girl`s crib but hears nothing. When daddy gets home from the night shift, 4:00 a.m., he finds all the lights on in the home, all the cell phones missing. The front door unlocked. A window raised. And baby Lisa gone.
Out to the lines, Janine in Oklahoma. Hi, Janine, what`s your question?
JANINE, CALLER FROM OKLAHOMA: My question is, is why does the father not show any emotion and won`t look at the cameras? And why did they have three cell phones? And who would know where the cell phones --
GRACE: Three cell phones, I know that -- Janine, I think that one of the cell phones -- everybody you`re seeing home video of baby Lisa Irwin from are YouTube. I think one of the cell phones he had from work. He had that on him when he got home. Let`s go to Ed Lavandera. What about the cell phones and were they not sitting out charging?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What Deborah Bradley said, I think a day or two after all of this broke, was that the phones had been sitting there on the counter. That they weren`t working. That she was in the process of reprogramming the phones. Not exactly sure what that means but that they were there on the counter.
Presumably they would have been there before baby Lisa`s father had gotten home that night and then they disappeared.
GRACE: To whom did the three cell phones belong, Ed?
LAVANDERA: I`m assuming the parents. I don`t know why there would be three -- I don`t know exactly whose numbers were assigned to whomever, but you know obviously you`ve got to presume that they were part of the family`s. Why there were three instead of two, I`m not sure.
GRACE: Which leads me to another question. Let`s go to Detective Lieutenant Steve Rogers, with the Nutley Police Department, a former member of the FBI.
Hi, Steve. Question. These three cell phones that were allegedly stolen from the home at the time the baby goes missing, do you believe, as I do, one of the first things cops should do is triangulate the phones? And if so, how would that be done?
DET. LT. STEVE ROGERS, NUTLEY, NEW JERSEY, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Yes, they will triangulate the phones.
GRACE: OK, I can`t hear Steve. Tell me when you get his satellite back up.
Dr. Marty Makary joining us, physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins.
Dr. Marty, thanks for being with us. I`ve been thinking a lot about that front window that looked like someone had entered in through it and possibly left the home through the front door. If any evidence had been left behind around that window, what would it have been?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, when there`s a difficult entry in a place like this, such as this window, it can be a treasure trove of forensic medical evidence. Lacerations are common, scratches, blood drops, hair, articles of clothing that could have DNA.
So while a 10-month-old is unlikely to struggle like a 2- or 3-year- old might, an area of entry like that could be where a lot of DNA and forensic medical evidence can be collected.
GRACE: Everybody, we`re taking your calls.
Out to Nancy in Pennsylvania. Hi, dear, what`s your question?
NANCY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy. It`s good to talk with you again. I`m wondering about this scenario. The police have done, you know, someone going through the window and it was a grown man. What about the possibility of like the older brother, maybe he has some jealousy about this baby or something we`re not aware of, or maybe a small person, maybe even a woman that might have gone through the window?
And I think the fact that the lights were all on signifies that I think it may just have been an inside job, maybe with the older brother in conjunction with an adult.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Nancy in Pennsylvania, did I just hear you correctly? You think that the older brother in conjunction with an adult took the child, the 10-month-old girl, out of jealousy?
NANCY: Well, we don`t know about what her relationship with her brothers are and I just think that`s an avenue that should be pursued. I mean was he jealous of this new baby?
GRACE: OK. Hold on. Let`s just follow this thing through. The children -- let me go to Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. The children are 8 and 6, OK. Now before I prosecuted adults, I got to practice on juveniles.
I don`t see it with an 8- and a 6-year-old, much less in conjunction with an adult? What`s the 6-year-old going to say? You know in the toy aisle there at K-Mart, hey, can you help me knock off my baby sister, she`s 10 months old?
I don`t see it, Dr. Bethany.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, would a 6- and an 8-year-old not only would they have the will but would they have the strength to carry something like that out? But let`s say for a second they did. What we would see would be people from the community coming forward saying that there were behavioral problems with these boys, especially the 8-year-old.
Has anyone in the community come forward and said that they saw the 8- year-old abusing the baby, that there are behavioral problems in school, that there`s bullying in the neighborhood? We don`t see anything of that sort, so there`s just nothing to point the finger at these brothers.
GRACE: Everybody, we`re taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers. Eleanor Odom, Renee Rockwell, Peter Odom.
Renee and Peter both joining me out of Atlanta.
You know, Eleanor, that type of juvenile crime, very, very few and far between. You remember when JonBenet Ramsey went missing?
ELEANOR ODOM, FELONY PROSECUTOR, DEATH PENALTY QUALIFIED: Yes.
GRACE: She didn`t go missing, she was killed.
E. ODOM: Yes.
GRACE: Everybody said oh, it`s the brother Burke. You know, it was not the brother Burke. No one ever seriously suspected the brother. And we see that over and over, that the sibling is always suspected. And it`s very, very rarely true.
E. ODOM: Not only is it not rare but, Nancy, look at this case. First of all, have the police even investigated the brothers and interviewed them? It`s real important to do an interview of both those boys. Also let`s face it, Nancy, a 6 and an 8-year-old, they`re not sophisticated little liars. If they were really involved in something, it`s not like they could keep up this big lie. So I`m with you, I don`t see that.
GRACE: OK. What about it, Peter?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I hate to agree with the prosecutors, but I do. I mean two things about kids. First of all, kids at a very tender age sometimes do commit some horrible crimes, that`s reality, but they`re not very good at concealing their crimes and they`re not very good about lying about it, so I just can`t see that happening. I`m sure the police have interviewed these two kids.
GRACE: Yes. Renee?
P. ODOM: But unlikely they`re involved.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And if the children have been involved in anything like this, Nancy, it`s not like you`re going to see any DNA that`s going to upset the police. So it`s an interesting but far- reaching and very inconsistent solution.
GRACE: Well, the thing to take away from Nancy in Pennsylvania`s question is that nobody is -- nobody has been cleared and everybody is a suspect. There are cases where juveniles do commit heinous crimes. I just don`t think a 6- and 8-year-old are going to hold up under police interrogation. Somebody is going to crack. So I think I`m safe to go out on a limb and clear the 6-year-old and the 8-year-old.
I want to go back to Ed Lavandera joining me there outside the family home. Ed also taking your questions.
An abandoned home has come under scrutiny. Why, Ed?
LAVANDERA: Well, that was one of -- remember off the top I had mentioned that they`d been going around and searching various areas around this neighborhood.
GRACE: Yes.
LAVANDERA: And they said that was the same thing with this abandoned home. Less than a mile away from where we are right here. And they spent a good chunk of the day a few days ago, about four or five hours, checking out a water well. They went down about 30 feet. They had to empty the water out. They spent a great deal of time. Nothing was found there.
Interestingly enough after they were done with that search, that house was leveled in a matter of minutes, so it`s not even there anymore.
GRACE: Is there a possibility that that homeless guy had been living there, Ed Lavandera?
LAVANDERA: I heard a report of that. We haven`t -- you know I haven`t confirmed that on our own.
GRACE: OK.
LAVANDERA: I did hear that that was floating around. It`s possible that, you know, someone could have come in and out of that house.
GRACE: Right.
LAVANDERA: No one really paid much attention to it.
GRACE: To Alexis Tereszcuk, I understand that the father, Jeremy Irwin, has made a statement about him offering to take a polygraph. What did he say, Alexis?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: He said that he offered the police that he would take a polygraph and they actually turned him down. They said, no, they didn`t need one from him, meaning that they believed everything that he said and that they don`t need that at all in the case. Unlike the mom who apparently did take one and failed.
GRACE: Interestingly but -- yes, you`re right, Alexis. Now she stated she failed. Police are not confirming that.
Everybody, tip line, 816-747-8477. Where is baby Lisa?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing that we know is that this 10-month- old belongs in this house.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The baby`s mother, Deborah Bradley, was the last person to see Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Someone suggested they check the old well or cistern. Firefighters went down into the well about 30 feet deep. No sign of 11-month-old Lisa Irwin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRADLEY: I`m terrified, but I`m trying to be hopeful.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where is the baby? Seriously, where is the baby?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He noticed the screen is busted and 10-month- old daughter is missing. He advised he didn`t witness anything and they don`t know how long she`s been gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a bad guy out there.
LAVANDERA: And that window has been the center and the focus of this investigation.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: One of the officers climbed through the window in question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that how somebody got in there?
JEREMY IRWIN, MISSING 10-MONTH-OLD INFANT`S FATHER: The window was -- in the front was open.
BRADLEY: I just knew, you know, something was really wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The FBI and police are stumped on this one.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is this a desperate place in the investigation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I wouldn`t say that. We know that it really just takes the one right nugget of information to kick this thing off in high gear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bring Lisa back here now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, the search for baby Lisa is on. A lot of focus on the parents. They`re pictured right here. There`s the mom who`s taken a polygraph, but this isn`t the first time a baby has been stolen out of a home. It`s not always the parents. For instance, Shannon Torrez, abducted, a 7-day-old infant, claimed a car broke down, entered the home, told mom she was taking the baby. Infant baby Abby found alive five days later.
Priscilla Maldonado -- Stephanie Jones abducted a newborn girl Priscilla. Dressed in scrubs, she visited the mom in the hospital and left with the infant Ryder Miller. Priscilla Mechell abducted a 1-week-old infant. It was a friend`s child. Ryder found alive in a dumpster. Anthony Deja-Diaz, Maria Robles and Jose Velarde arrested for murdering the mom and abducting the baby. Infant baby Anthony found alive, abandoned on a doorstep.
It can happen. It is not unheard of. But to you, Marc Klaas, I would say that statistically when a child goes missing, someone within the family or close to that family is responsible.
Do the statistics bear that out, Marc?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, in fact in 82 percent of all abductions, they are family centric, so indeed you`re absolutely correct about that.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Daphne in Florida.
Hi, Daphne, what`s your question?
DAPHNE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. I have a question and a comment. You know, it`s sad because a lot of this is going to happen right now with everybody getting off with these kind of cases, kids being kidnapped and found missing, and then the mothers getting the book signings and all kind of stuff.
It just seems like you`re going to see a lot of that because I see a lot of people getting away with these kind of crimes. But my question is with the scene of the baby`s room yesterday, everything looked neat and in order besides the crib. And it just seems like the room was just like too neat. And you know, for the room to be as neat and as clean as it was, then why was the crib so messy, full of mess if the baby was found there and taken from the crib?
GRACE: Now one thing I know, Daphne, is that another camera crew had come in there from another outlet and had moved a few things around, I think, and put those items in the crib.
Let`s see the crib, Liz, please.
But as far as the room being neat, now that is an interesting question. The room was exceedingly neat.
What does that say to you, Bethany Marshall, if anything?
MARSHALL: That`s fascinating. The fact that there don`t appear to be any toys makes me wonder if the mother was planning for this little baby to have a future. See, because we see two things with infanticide. One is that the child is not provided with toys because the mother doesn`t think the baby will be around.
The other thing we see often is that after the baby has an accident or meets some early demise --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Here are some of the toys. Hey, look, here are some of the toys in there, in the room. But with an infant, I mean the baby may be too small to play with that that you`re looking at. I`m just wondering about other items that would have been in the crib.
Go ahead, Bethany.
MARSHALL: Nancy -- but Nancy, don`t you think the type of toys would provide a really treasure trove of clues as to how the mother felt about the child? For instance, if there were just age-appropriate toys like a fuzzy little toy that the baby could hold on to, but nothing for when the child turned 1, 2 or 3, that would tell us that this mother was not planning for the baby`s future and we could also ask the friends and the family members of the mother -- did she talk about the baby`s future? Did she make plans for the future? Did she go shopping for the baby dresses for when the toddler --
GRACE: Oh man, look at that picture, Bethany.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let`s go back to that shot of the baby in the front yard playing with that little Barbie something. Oh, man, that`s killing me. What is it about this picture, Bethany, that`s just upsetting me so much? What is it? The baby is smiling and happy and playing with something.
MARSHALL: This little baby is so full of life but so vulnerable. A child like this cannot survive without a mother, a father, a whole community of people who loves the baby. I know your twins have a community, a grandpa, a grandmother. We see them on camera.
You know that not one grandmother or grandfather has come forward in this case? I haven`t heard anything from the relatives, unless I`ve missed a report. Why is the family circling the wagon? Why isn`t anybody coming out with a theory?
GRACE: You know that`s a good question.
MARSHALL: And look at --
GRACE: Let me go to Ed Lavandera on that.
Ed, what about it? Have we heard from grandparents or extended family?
LAVANDERA: We`ve tried talking to them. We`ve talked to -- those are the people we`ve been in touch with, some of the extended family members that have been acting on behalf of the family.
Look, as I tell everyone who asks me these types of similar questions in these situations, when something like this happens to you and a bunch of news trucks roll up in your neighborhood and start hanging out, how people react in these situations, you know, I`ve seen people react in a wide array of ways.
You know, I don`t presume to even --
GRACE: Right.
LAVANDERA: -- judge or think what`s going through someone`s mind. You know, I just -- I couldn`t imagine being in the people`s shoes.
GRACE: Got it.
LAVANDERA: Especially if you`re a loved one.
GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls. Out to Tina in Ohio. Hi, Tina, what`s your question? I think I`ve got Tina. Do I have Daphne in Florida? OK. Hilda in Arkansas, hi, dear, what`s your question?
OK, I`m losing my callers. Liz, let me know when we had the line back up.
I want to go back out to Alexis Tereszcuk.
Alexis, what more do we know about this handyman? Because cops really seem to be focusing on him. They`ve been showing his picture around the neighborhood. Is he really a target or is this a red herring, just something they`ve got to cross their T`s and dot their I`s and find him and clear him? What do we know about him?
TERESZCUK: Well, what we`ve heard is that he rides his bike around the neighborhood. And you know you were speaking about the abandoned house? He was apparently living there. That`s what they were saying. They thought that he was living in that house before they tore it down. But for some reason the police definitely want to talk to him. So they maybe do think that he might have some information that could help them find little Lisa.
GRACE: As mommy takes a polygraph, police look for a local homeless guy, a handyman last seen in baby Lisa`s neighborhood. The tip line, 816- 747-8477. Crucial hours passed in the search for 10-month-old baby Lisa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRADLEY: I ran around the house, and was screaming for her, and she was nowhere.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Search for a missing Missouri baby.
LAVANDERA: Ten-month-old Lisa Irwin --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who`s vanished from her home.
IRWIN: I noticed and the front was open.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Front door unlocked, lights on in the home.
BRADLEY: Just disappeared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re chasing things as they come down. The best thing for us to try to find this child, that`s our number one priority.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s zero, zero doubt in Deborah.
BRADLEY: Please, just drop her off anywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don`t have any other suspects, you could go with the one person that was there that night.
BRADLEY: We don`t care, just somewhere safe where she can come home, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who else do you point your finger at? You know?
IRWIN: Somebody`s daughter somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They live here. It`s their child. Who knows more.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I told them everything that I knew.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their involvement in this investigation is critical.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everybody, we are live and taking your calls. Where is baby Lisa, snatched out of her own crib? Mommy just feet away at the time. Daddy comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of his 10-month- old baby girl.
Out to the lines, Amy in Oklahoma. Hi, dear, what`s your question?
AMY, CALLER FROM OKLAHOMA: Yes, Nancy, my question is where -- who`s responsible for taking care of the kids while she was buying the wine at the grocery store?
GRACE: You know that`s what I`m screaming.
Ed Lavandera, who was taking care of the babies while she was at the grocery store buying wine?
LAVANDERA: We don`t have a direct answer on that. But I can kind of walk through maybe -- you know, some things that I`ve been thinking about here over the last 24 hours since we`ve seen that video.
GRACE: OK.
LAVANDERA: But the father comes home at 4:00 in the morning to discover that. So let`s assume he`s worked an eight-hour day, right? That puts it back to about 8:00 at night. Let`s say he left for work at 7:00- ish. So it`s -- you know, I can presume that perhaps dad was home around 5:00 in the afternoon before he left for work, while Deborah made that run to the grocery store.
This is just to say I don`t know exactly who was home. Obviously the kids were not with her, they were not in that video. And so I`m just kind of trying to work through logically what might be an explanation for that.
GRACE: So, Ed Lavandera, you`ve just proved you`re not just a pretty face. You can use that noggin. That makes perfect sense.
Tip line, everybody, 816-747-8477. There is a reward. Please help us find baby Lisa. She`s only 10 months old.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Private 1st Class Daniel McClenney, just 19, Shelbyville, Tennessee, killed Afghanistan. Awarded Silver Star, Purple Heart, two of the military`s highest awards for valor in combat. Loved hunting, NASCAR, had a smile that lit up a room, leaves behind grieving parents Randy and Vida, sister Melissa.
Daniel McClenney, just 19. American hero.
Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
