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Nancy Grace

Police Say Missing 10-Month-Old`s Parents not Cooperating

Aired October 18, 2011 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight out of America`s heartland in the search for a 10-month-old girl who vanishes from her own crib in the dead of night. Her dad works the night shift, then comes home to find baby Lisa gone. The last person to see her alive, her own mother. After baby Lisa`s mom admits she was drunk, blacking out the night baby Lisa disappears, Mommy then changes her story. The last time she sees her baby is now 6:40 PM, not 10:30 PM.

In another bombshell development tonight, cops confirm baby Lisa`s parents are now refusing to fully cooperate, not answering key questions that could solve the disappearance of the 10-month-old. The mother and father have been avoiding cops for 10 days, and it`s all as they lawyer up.

Also, in the last hours, FBI, cops, search dogs and real-life CSI swarm a heavily wooded area just a half mile from baby Lisa`s home. What do they know? And it`s all as investigators chase down an alleged sighting of baby Lisa at a deli, of all places. Tonight, what happened to baby Lisa?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at this picture.

DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER: Please! Bring her home!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first scenario that investigators are looking at is a stranger breaking into the house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s like they just walked in and just disappeared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would somebody get out of the house with baby Lisa?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby`s mother, Deborah Bradley.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) pointed (INAUDIBLE) finger (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She changed her story a bit.

BRADLEY: Please bring her home!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Originally, she had said the last time she had seen baby Lisa was at 10:30 at night when she put her daughter to bed.

BRADLEY: We`re going to pray!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s out there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a huge difference between 6:40 in the evening.

BRADLEY: She`s going to home come!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deborah Bradley revealed that she was drinking that night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only hours before baby Lisa was reportedly abducted, Mommy...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was sitting right here on this stoop with the neighbor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is admitting she was drunk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That she, in fact, was drunk and maybe even had blacked out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say that they actually have not been that cooperative. They say the parents haven`t talked with them since the first week of October and that the mother isn`t explaining inconsistencies in her story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you drinking that night?

BRADLEY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much?

BRADLEY: Enough to be drunk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you were drunk?

BRADLEY: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people are going to say, Deborah, you were drunk that night. Is there any chance you did anything that hurt your daughter that you`re just not telling us?

BRADLEY: No. No. No. And if I thought there was a chance, I`d say it. No. No. I don`t think that alcohol changes a person enough to do something like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. More bombshell developments in the search for 10-month- old baby Lisa, reported missing from her own crib.

Straight out to CNN correspondent Jim Spellman, live on the scene in Kansas City, Missouri. Jim, I understand that we`ve got some breaking news that cop cars have been spotted outside the missing baby`s family home?

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That`s right, Jane. For about the last two hours, police cars have been here in front of the missing baby Lisa`s home, sometimes two cars, sometimes three cars, one or two parked in the front, one parked in the back, down the driveway. We`re not sure what they`re here doing, but they`ve been here for the last couple hours. Haven`t really seen them here for the last two or so days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, are they just sitting in their cop cars and just sort of sitting there, or are they walking around, sniffing around? Are they talking to people?

SPELLMAN: We`ve seen one or two officers get out and walk to the back of the house, and then they come back in. Then another car will pull up and one care will leave and another one will stay.

Very difficult to tell what`s going on. And obviously, they`re not letting us know here on site exactly what they are doing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Paul Penzone, given everything, given this brewing battle between the parents and their attorney versus the cops, what do you make of the fact that cop cars have now pulled up outside the family`s home, Paul Penzone, former sergeant, Phoenix PD?

PAUL PENZONE, FMR. SGT., PHOENIX PD: I`m wondering if maybe they obtained another search warrant, went back to look for more evidence. The fact that they have marked police cars is normally to secure a scene because the detectives are normally going to be in plainclothes. So that`s the only thing I can speculate right now. They`re going back to look for more information or to conduct additional interviews, if, in fact, the parents are going to be cooperative.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they`re not being cooperative, according to cops. I mean, according to cops, the last unrestricted conversation they had with the parents was back on October 6th. The child disappeared on October 3rd, OK? We`re talking -- if she is hysterical, crying hysterically, as she has been seen crying hysterically -- the mother I`m talking about -- then why is it that she is not talking to cops?

Why is it that cops are having trouble now reaching the parents? Why is it that reports indicate that the parents said they couldn`t talk to cops because they were going to do a TV interview?

Marc Klaas, you`re the president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. I would think that this mother, who is hysterical and says she will do anything to find this beautiful, precious, helpless child, would want to sit down and subject herself to anything that cops have to offer.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, Jane, thanks for having me on. And I couldn`t agree with you more. I think you put your finger on the real issue here. Obviously, the recovery of baby Lisa is not the number one priority of her parents.

They won`t let their other children be reinterviewed because they don`t want them to be traumatized. That`s certainly not putting baby Lisa first. They`re not talking to the police. That`s certainly not putting baby Lisa first. They`ve hired a lawyer to represent their own interests. That`s certainly not putting baby Lisa first.

This is becoming very troubling. They`re making horrible decisions and terrible choices as this case moves forward, and it`s not making them look any better at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, psychotherapist Leslie Austin, you have a mother who`s weeping and crying and saying, I want to help my baby, I want to find my baby. Then we hear quite a few days later -- now we hear, oh, she`s been drinking. She was drinking the night that her child disappeared. She had more than five glasses of wine.

We`ve also learned that she was on anti-anxiety meds, according to published reports, which experts in addiction say, hey, you take one and you add anti-anxiety meds, that`s like super-charging the wine. It`s like almost doubling the intoxication.

And now we`re hearing that, wow, she`s -- she`s not saying that she saw the child at 10:30, now she`s saying she put the child to sleep at 6:40 PM, and then was drinking on the stoop with her neighbor. And she can`t remember whether or not she saw the child at 10:30. These are inconsistencies.

What do you make of how the mother is conducting herself?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, there`s a very fine balance to be struck here between wanting to do absolutely everything to find baby Lisa and us turning into a lynch mob without evidence of proven guilt.

I think that she made some very stupid, irresponsible choices by drinking when she`s home alone with the baby. That`s not intelligent. Most people do that, unfortunately, and they get away with it. And something happened here. We don`t know that she actually harmed the baby.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leslie, Leslie, Leslie...

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s what disturbs me. I`m not saying she`s a suspect. I`m not saying she`s responsible.

AUSTIN: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But given that her child is missing, I find it extraordinary that she says that she doesn`t have any problem with having a few drinks while her -- while she`s watching the kids, saying, Well, it`s OK to have some adult time. It`s shocking that she would make that statement...

AUSTIN: It is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... in light of the fact that her child is missing!

AUSTIN: I couldn`t agree with you more. It`s stupid. It`s shocking. It`s irresponsible. It`s bad parenting. And to her credit, at least she finally admitted it openly and came out with it and went public with it, which totally leads me to believe that she may not be totally guilt here.

She has a little bit of credibility for allowing herself to look really bad and `fessing up early on, when nobody else might have known. So it`s a very dicey situation here. She`s irresponsible. They`re making bad decisions with the police. And we don`t have any solid proof that even though she`s looking irresponsible and bad that she`s guilty of a crime yet.

I do hope that they talk more with the police, though. I really do because it`s the only way we`ll find that baby.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, according to published reports, citing the cops, they are not.

And I want to bring in the attorneys, Ray Giudice, defense attorney, Remi Spencer, defense attorney. Listen, I`ll just give you the recap here and I want your analysis. And maybe we`ll start with ray.

OK, the last -- the child disappears October 3rd. The last unrestricted interview, October 6th. Then on October 8th, mom reportedly stops the questioning. And she`s invited on any time. If you don`t think we`re getting it right, lady, come on. We`ll talk to you. We`ll get your side of the story. We want to be fair here. We want to get both sides.

But this is what they`re saying. The last unrestricted chat with the parents was October 6th. The last time that they really talked to her was October 8th, at which point she becomes uncomfortable and stops the questioning, Ray. Why?

RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, Jane, forget the idea that the legal process starts at the time of an arrest or an indictment. In today`s 24/7 cable world, the legal defense starts moments after the initial questioning by the police, when it becomes adversarial, when they start accusing, when they start trying to set up conflicting statements between the parents and repetitive statements.

It is game on for these folks. They have not only done the right thing in hiring excellent nationally-known counsel, but they might also want to consider hiring separate counsel so they can each defend themselves.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Remi Spencer, to Ray`s point, Lisa`s dad has really insisted that the mother be present during the interviews. Now, some might say, Well, that`s because they want to make sure they keep their stories consistent with each other, even though they have -- even within their own comments made inconsistent statements.

REMI SPENCER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If we want to rush to judgment and convict these people based on rumor and innuendo, we could Congress say that. But who are we to judge how a husband and wife, parents of a missing child would react?

I think it`s reasonable that the parents would want the love and support of each other while they`re being questioned by the police, while no doubt they are aware that they are naturally suspects by virtue of being this child`s parents. I think that we cannot sit in judgment before we see some evidence connecting them to the disappearance of this child. It`s normal to suspect...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joe Gomez, we`re not -- we`re not sitting in judgment, but we`re wondering why sources are telling "The Kansas City Star" that cops have been unable to ask the mom about inconsistencies in her timeline. Wouldn`t she want to clarify that for police?

JOE GOMEZ, KTRH RADIO: One would think, Jane. I mean, if your baby was missing (INAUDIBLE) 11-month-old baby girl was missing now for something going on 12, 13 days, wouldn`t you do everything in your power to talk to police to find her?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`d say, Torture me! Go ahead, string me up and torture me! That`s what I`d say. I`d say, Make me walk on hot coals. I`d say, Take my pinky, do whatever you have to do to find that child.

But again, the cops are not saying that these people are suspects. The mother says she was asleep. She was woken up by her husband and he says, Hey, why are the lights on, honey? Why`s the front door open? Why is the window open? And then she jumps out of bed and says, What? And next thing you know, they realize that this precious infant is gone, missing into thin air. Where did baby Lisa go? Why can`t anybody find her even though...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police dispatch tapes...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... we have armies...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... first got a call about Lisa disappearing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Residential burglary in progress on (DELETED)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And his 10-month-old daughter is missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That call initiates the intense search for Lisa Irwin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI told me, Look, we are going full speed ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re still full steam ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That call initiates the intense search for Lisa Irwin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police bought out ATVs and search dogs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police wanting to be sure that they haven`t missed anything in this whole area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say that they actually have not been that cooperative.

BRADLEY: I`m terrified! But I`m trying to be hopeful!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They say the parents haven`t talked with them since the first week of October.

BRADLEY: Please bring her home!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very consistent in her demeanor. I mean, every time she`s interviewed, she breaks down.

BRADLEY: Please! Please! Please! I can`t be without her!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She admits she probably had more than five drinks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She has no remorse or thinking that she`s done something wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is what makes me so sad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eleven-month-old babies don`t just walk away from their home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at this precious child. Where is she tonight?

Now, we are learning that there are cops outside the family home and have been there for a couple of hours. What does it mean? We can tell you that the mother and father, while not considered suspects or persons of interest, according to the cops, have lawyered up. They have a famous attorney, Joe Tacopina, who is known most famously as the attorney, the American attorney for Joran Van Der Sloot, of course, the suspect in the Natalee Holloway case.

Now, he has taken to the airwaves and was on "GMA" this morning saying, no, the mother`s story is not inconsistent when she originally said, according to published reports, that she last saw the child at 10:30 and now she`s saying she put the child in the crib at 6:40 PM.

Let`s listen to the top flight-attorney Joe Tacopina, and then we`re going to analyze it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE TACOPINA, ATTORNEY FOR PARENTS: There`s not a four-hour gap. There`s not because what she said was she puts the baby to bed at around 6:30. At one point, during one of the 13 hours of interview, she had said she believed she checked on her at 10:30. It`s not an inconsistency. It may be a recollection refreshed at some later point, but it`s not material to whether or not she had anything to do with the disappearance of her baby. Other witnesses were there that fixed the timelines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Joe Gomez, reporter, KTRH News Radio, I could see a faulty recollection -- a lot of times, I don`t know where I put my keys, a lot of times I don`t know where I left my glasses or my iPhone -- but we`re talking about a baby here. Do you buy Joe Tacopina`s explanation on "GMA"?

GOMEZ: Well, Jane, let`s say Mommy did have a full box of wine. Perhaps she didn`t know at what point or where she put the baby and she didn`t, in fact, consume all that alcohol. I mean, that could be a valid point there.

But still, your 10-month-old baby girl -- I mean, you`re right! It`s not like you`re misplacing your remote control! You would surely know when and where you put your daughter at! And now that she went missing, I don`t know. Does it sound to you like she`s going into damage control, Jane, that she`s trying to rein in what happened, trying to get some kind of a grip on this thing that`s just escalating out of control now?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this. The parents say they`re completely innocent, and they deserve the presumption of innocence. They say that an intruder, they believe, broke in to the window, through the window and then somehow flipped on all the lights, took their cell phones. They had approximately three cell phones -- took them and took the baby.

So I want to go out to Dr. Zhongxue Hua, who is also a DNA expert. If an intruder had come in and snatched the baby out of the crib, would there be DNA possibly? Would there be forensics on the door, on the tampered window, in the room? What would the police find?

DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION CTY., NJ, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: If they would not wear any gloves, you would certainly expect fingerprints, body fluid, DNA evidence along the way (INAUDIBLE) from -- starting from the window area all the way in near the baby crib area, and also on the way out. You should expect lots of DNA and fingerprints left behind.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, of course, there`s always an answer for everything, Doctor. You`d say, Well, maybe this person`s so smart that they decide to put on gloves. So would there be anything there if they were wearing some kind of a rubber glove?

HUA: Yes. I mean, some rubber glove have (INAUDIBLE) you can easily detect that. Even you wear gloves and when someone come in, sometime hair can falling off a lot. I mean, you can hair falling from the hair (SIC) can falling off. You can collect microscopic evidence. It`s really depend how detail, how extensive the scene was worked on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alexis Tereszcuk, Radaronline, what are you hearing tonight?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Well, you know, the one thing that we were -- you were talking about the cell phones. Apparently, the police have said that there was a phone call made from one of the cell phones at 2:30 in the morning. But the parents are saying, oh, they didn`t have outgoing calls. So there`s a huge inconsistency just with the cell phones alone, which cops are definitely wanting the talk to them more about, but they can`t because they`re refusing. So they`re really stuck between a rock and a hard place. They need information from this family, and they are not getting it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The timeline she had previously said that she last saw the baby at 10:30...

BRADLEY: Get her ready for bed and give her her bottle, made sure her binkie was in her crib in case she needed it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now she says 6:40 in the evening was the last time that she saw baby Lisa.

BRADLEY: I`m terrified, but I`m trying to be hopeful!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And maybe more importantly, she said that she was drinking that night.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: I`d like to find out how much of that big honkin` box of wine the mom bought was recovered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in fact, she may have been drunk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They decided to stop talking to detectives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, there are miracles, and hopefully, this will be one of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Where is this precious child? Baby Lisa disappeared from her home in Kansas City, Missouri, October 3rd. And now a war of sorts has developed between the family, her mother and father, who are lawyered up with a prominent attorney, and cops. A little bit of finger pointing going in either direction. We also have a possible sighting, which we`re going to tell you about in a moment.

But first, some very patient callers. So let`s go to the phones. Kim, Illinois. Your question or thought, Kim.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening, Jane. So happy to talk to you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi there. Right back at you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s actually three things that are going through my mind. One, they saw the mother in the store with, I guess, her brother. And I was wondering where the baby was.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two, do they -- what is the background on the brother? And three, what about the neighbor that said she was over there and at one point had seen her turn the lights out?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline, what do we know about the brother and the neighbor?

TERESZCUK: So the brother, as of what we know right now, does not have a record. She asked about who was with the baby. Actually, Lisa`s father had not left for work yet, so he was at home with baby Lisa. Then the mom came back with the wine. The dad left for work, for his very first overnight shift, and that`s when she sat on the front porch steps and drank all the wine with her neighbor.

Then the neighbor left about 10:30. Now, she didn`t see Lisa (SIC) turn out the lights, but she said she thought she remembered the lights in the home being turned off. So there are a few discrepancies there. But the baby was with her father before he went to work.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And when did the brother leave?

TERESZCUK: He actually didn`t ever go to the house, is what we understand. He was just with her in the store shopping for the wine.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jim Spellman, CNN correspondent, you are outside the home, I understand. Police are there. What about this possible sighting?

SPELLING: Yes, Manhattan, Kansas, 120 miles to the west of here. What happened was two women in their 20s with a baby were in a deli. They ordered food and never ate it and left. That raised suspicions. We know the manager has given credit card information to the police. They are tracking that down right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t know what type of crime has been committed.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The search for a missing baby, Lisa Irwin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they went through a wooded area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inch by inch.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dozens of massive searches.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No closer to finding baby Lisa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Inconsistencies in the mother`s story.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Profoundly troubling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When she says she put the baby down --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She might have been too drunk to remember.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When she last saw the baby.

DEBORAH BRADLEY, MISSING 10-MONTH-OLD INFANT`S MOTHER: What is going on? Where is she at? Why is she gone?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one knows where baby Lisa is.

BRADLEY: Try to think of anything or anyone or any reason this might have happened. We still haven`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The baby`s gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the parents have not been that cooperative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police want to speak with them.

JEREMY IRWIN, MISSING 10-MONTH-OLD INFANT`S FATHER: Did they find her yet?

BRADLEY: Just please bring her home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No new clues in this troubling case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace tonight. We are talking about this precious child who disappeared October 3rd. Where is baby Lisa? We are doing everything we can to analyze this situation and find her. So many fast and furious developments. We are being told now that cop cars are outside the home of the missing child`s family and we are also told that there was a possible sighting of this child or some child that appears to resemble this child, about 100 miles west of Kansas City, and cops are checking on that.

And we also have sort of a battle of words between the family, their attorney and the cops.

Joe Gomez, reporter, KTRH Newsradio. What is the contentious issue or issues between the family and the police?

JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KTRH RADIO: Well, right now, Jane, I believe that police or the family saying that the police are being very -- they`re trying to pin it on them. I think the mother is afraid that perhaps she may be arrested. The only suspect they have in the case -- even the police say they haven`t named any suspects -- are the parents because the mother was the last person that saw baby Lisa.

We know that she had admitted to downing a good portion of a box of wine. She even said she possibly blacked out that night. That she -- the last night that she had seen baby Lisa now for about 6:40 anywhere up to 10:30 at night. We know that had happened. We know that she`s lawyered up. We know they`re not talking to police anymore. It`s been nearly 10 days since they`ve spoken with police.

Now cop cars are outside the home that they`re staying at, Jane. This case, this case is quickly having some very strange turns to it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And I want to go to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Nobody knows more about the patterns of missing children cases than Marc Klaas.

Marc, I was speaking to Marcia Clark earlier this evening, she`s the famous prosecutor from the O.J. Simpson case, and she actually said that she can understand why the parents aren`t talking to cops if, as some published reports claim, they almost immediately accused her of being involved and this is not being confirmed by any anybody but published reports that made these claims, some of them anyway.

Do you think that sometimes there are cases where parents can say, hey, I got to protect myself? I got to be careful what I say and I don`t want to say anything?

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Jane, I`m sure that`s a possibility. And I`d like to be really clear. I have been through what these parents are going through and I`ve dealt with hundreds of families that have been through what these parents are going through.

And I can tell you certain things. Number one, the truth is consistent. The truth doesn`t change. And if your story starts shifting here, there and some place else, then you`re hiding something. And I`m not saying for one moment that these parents are guilty of the disappearance of their daughter.

But they`re not coming nearly as -- they`re not being nearly as forthcoming as they need to be and they have to realize that 82 percent of all abductions involve a family member. Therefore, the family members have to eliminate themselves. And this whole idea that the cops have to pin it on somebody I think is from television, quite frankly.

That`s not how law enforcement works in this country. Particularly with the backing of the FBI in this case. And in so many other cases. They`re trying to get to a fundamental truth. What happened to baby Lisa and where is baby Lisa? And the shortest path to that truth is through the parents.

And this whole idea that she can shift her story for four hours from the time that she said she last saw her until the time that she really last saw her totally, totally messes up the timeline. It changes absolutely --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, except for one thing, Marc. I agree with you except for the alcohol and anti-anxiety med factor, and I say that as a recovering alcoholic with 16 years of sobriety and, knock on wood, if I make it to April 1st it`ll be 17 years if I make it one day at a time there because I could tell you -- I`m not proud of it. I could tell you that I have experienced blackouts and I know that a recollection can come back in shards and I do remember -- and I`m not proud to say this, it`s embarrassing but I`ll say many, many years ago I reported my car stolen, and it wasn`t stolen, and afterwards I remembered where I had left it.

Now that doesn`t mean that I moved the car. It means that I didn`t remember that I had parked the car a certain place and then as my memory came back -- Leslie Austin, psychotherapist -- I remember, oh, yes, I remember now where I left the car.

Is it possible that her shifting story is simply the recollection of somebody who had by her own admission probably at least five glasses of wine and anti-anxiety meds which supercharges it to, according to experts, 10 glasses of wine?

DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It`s not only possible, Jane, it`s likely and I think Marc makes a really important distinction here. The way she`s behaving indicates she is uncomfortable and hiding something. The thing is we don`t know what. And it may not be her guilt but there`s more here than meets the eye that she is not willing to disclose and that`s where she really does need to talk to the police.

If she`s got a good attorney now -- Mr. Tacopina certainly is one -- she needs to be talking to the police, possibly with her attorney present but she needs to be in communication with them, and her husband, as well. They need to be going back and cooperating. Now if they feel safe with their lawyer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think you`re making an excellent point. I can understand not wanting to talk to cops without an attorney present.

But Ray Giudice and Remi Spencer -- and I`ll start with Ray -- they now have a top-flight attorney. So why aren`t they in that police station right now with their top-flight attorney explaining what the heck went on that night?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Before any top-flight attorney lets his clients or her clients be questioned any further he`s going to know the facts forward and backward. And let me just say, I think some of the reporters and commentaries are setting up strawmen.

Alexis went on and on about how they don`t have the cell phones and the parents aren`t helping. A little bit of shoe leather by law enforcement would go get a subpoena for the cell phone records and would go triangulate on the cell phone towers and they could solve that problem pretty quickly without making an accusation against the parents.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, hold on. Hold, hold, hold.

GIUDICE: That can be resolved.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to give Alexis a chance to respond, because my understanding was that you were essentially they didn`t have their cell phones turned on. Now I don`t know that you can track pings of a cell phone that isn`t turned on. Right, Alexis?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: Right. You cannot. What I was saying is that the police have actually tracked the records and they`re saying there were phone calls made which contradicts what the parents say which is that we were not able to make outgoing phone calls on their cell phones.

They apparently are saying they didn`t pay the bill and so they were cut off. But the police are actually saying this isn`t true from the shoe leather reporting that he said that they did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we don`t know all where show leather. I don`t anyway.

OK, Remi Spencer, defense attorney, what do you make of that? I mean, if they`ve got something on the parents in essence cold, hard facts, pings, cell phone pings that dispute the parent`s story, and this is a big if, this is just being reported, that is I would say very, very disturbing.

I mean, either the phone was working or it wasn`t. Either they were taken or they weren`t.

REMI SPENCER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look. Any inconsistency, any discrepancy in an investigation of a missing child like this is going to raise red flag to law enforcement and it should. But the cell phone records that we were just discussing simply not enough to draw connection to even get us to probable cause.

Every single story, even with truthful people who are not being deceptive are going to -- these stories are going to have inconsistencies. People see things differently. Memories are not perfect. And this is a high stress, very traumatic situation.

Assume for a second as the law presumes that these parents are innocent, it is not inconceivable that they would not react the way everybody else would expect them to react. Especially if they have gone through hours and hours of questioning already. It makes sense that the lawyer Joseph Tacopina would want to take time and carefully sift through everything before they sat down with law enforcement again.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me say this.

Jim Spellman, CNN correspondent, this is not happening on some farmland. This is a suburban community. We`ve seen video of it where people are seeing what`s going on in other neighbor`s houses. There aren`t even shrubs or bushes that hide it.

I mean, if somebody`s going to get rid of a child, it`s very possible that somebody would have noticed that. They`re not seeing any of that, are they?

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. Absolutely not. And there`s not even a tree in the front yard of the baby Lisa`s house. It`s wide open there. But once you got into an automobile here, I think you would blend in very quickly. Lots of cars coming and going all times of day.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But did the mother even have a car?

SPELLMAN: She doesn`t have a driver`s license but we understand she knows how to drive and there is another car besides the one they drive on a normal basis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRADLEY: Terrified but I`m trying to be hopeful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) and busted. And his 10-month-old daughter is missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is a stranger breaking in to the house taking baby Lisa?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back to ground zero as far as --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She disappeared from her home, her crib.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suspects or persons of interest.

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: If someone has baby Lisa --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No sign of her despite dozens of massive searches.

GRACE: And we`ve seen this before.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Admitted she was drunk the night her child disappeared.

GRACE: Where children are taken out of their home. Women that want babies they can`t have them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The location of the grocery store where she knew she bought the box of wine and some baby supplies.

GRACE: And they`re passing the baby off as their own, will that raise any red flag?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only if someone has seen pictures of this child and recognizes the child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is baby Lisa? Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. And we are exploring all possibilities as we have breaking news to tell you about tonight.

Police cars now parked in front of the family home. This as a war of words has erupted between the parents of the missing 10-month-old child who has now turned 11 in the course of her disappearance, 11 months old. And police, police saying essentially they need to talk to this mom and dad if they want to find out where this child is, and insinuating that the parents have been uncooperative.

The parents through their attorney saying absolutely no. They have not been uncooperative. So which is right? It depends on who you listen to.

And I want to go out to Jim Spellman, CNN correspondent, who is literally right outside the family home.

Meanwhile, more than 100 miles west apparently there was a sighting at 1:00 this afternoon of a child that looks apparently somewhat like this little girl.

What do you know, Jim?

SPELLMAN: That`s right, Jane. One hundred and 20 miles west of Kansas City is Manhattan, Kansas. At a deli there, there are two women in their 20s came in with a child that matched the description of baby Lisa. They -- it was described that they were nervous once people started looking at them and the baby.

They left without eating their food. We knew the manager has given their credit card receipt information to authorities. They`re trying to track them right now.

And one quick thing about the cooperation and lack thereof from the family. Police here are very frustrated because they have had over 550 credible tips worth investigating and they don`t have a partner in the family to run those tips by to try to find out if there`s anything that matches up with something else in the life that might be of help for the police. That`s really frustrating them here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And Remi Spencer, defense attorney. You have Joe Tacopina who`s an excellent attorney, and I admire him, he`s done great work in many cases, but he`s standing there outside the family home and saying the investigation begins right here, right here.

Well, the cops are saying, yes. But we can`t get the family to talk to us. We can`t get the mother and father to talk to us. That they haven`t spoken to them since October 8th. That the mother became uncomfortable during an October 8th interview. And they have haven`t been able to question them about these inconsistencies, about these new stories. Why? Why not?

SPENCER: Well, let`s be clear. It`s not that the police have not been able to speak with the parents. The cops have spoken with the parents on more than one occasion for hours at a time. It`s been reported as you said earlier in this show that the police may have accused the mother outright to her face.

So it is not unreasonable. In fact, she`s very smart to have hired a good lawyer to protect her rights. That does not mean that they are not speaking with the police. It means that she has some protection so that the law enforcement can do their job properly. Collect the evidence. And quite frankly, I don`t think this is about the mother being afraid of going to jail.

I think the mother is truly afraid that if they look at her and focus on her they will stop looking for the child. And I think that is the mark of an innocent person. Look for my child. Leave me alone. Look for my child is what she`s been saying all along.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But they are looking for her child. We`ve talked to people in the neighborhood said there`s helicopters overhead.

I`ve got to go back to Jim Spellman because you`re there. Weren`t they all at a wooded area today? And aren`t we seeing a lot of --

SPELLMAN: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t like to say manpower. People power? Cops? FBI?

SPELLMAN: Absolutely. Search is going on every day. Today in a wooded area, they re-searched an area that they had searched before this time with dogs to try to use the scent dogs to try to find some new clues in that area. They have been searching aggressively, even bringing in the National Guard over the weekend to search a wooded area. There definitely been searches going on here, but police tell us it`s all so much more difficult without being able to bounce things off of the parents and find out more information about the parents that might be helpful in these searches.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Here`s what I don`t get. If you are going to question the mother in a way that`s accusatory, and again the cops are telling us she`s a suspect. The only reason why I think she`s become a -- sort of a fixation in this case is the things that she herself has said.

She`s said publicly that cops told her she failed a polygraph. She is the one who expressed a sentiment that she thinks she might be arrested and the family is in fear.

But Marc, what`s the motive? What motive does this mother who has apparently no history of child abuse, there -- we don`t hear anything about Department of Children and Families having been out there. What motive could she have to any way, shape or form to harm this precious, adorable, angelic child of whom she`s taken so many photos?

KLAAS: I have no idea what her motive might be for doing something like that. And I think you`re exactly right, Jane, that she keeps pointing the finger at herself. What do I know and what I do take exception to is some of the other things that are being said by some of your other panel members about hanging loose and letting the lawyers analyze it before they go on and have a meeting with the police.

People seem to be forgetting here that there`s a little baby missing and that`s she`s been missing for two weeks now and that nobody seems to be helping the police try to find that little baby and really has got to be the bottom line.

This is a time for people to sit down with law enforcement and get all of the information out so that they can determine what happened to this little child and whether or not the parents are, in fact, involved.

Only they can eliminate themselves and they`re not doing that. Not now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`ve had some very, very patient callers. We`re going to go back out to the phone lines.

Randi, Utah, thank you for waiting so long. What is your question or thought, Randi?

RANDI, CALLER FROM UTAH: Thank you for taking my call. I have three really, really quick questions. First one is if somebody did come in and take her, does she have any identifying marks on her body? And could somebody that had seen her going in and out of the grocery store with the baby, maybe have watched them awhile and could have followed them home? And did they ever take --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jim Spellman, any identifying marks on the baby?

SPELLMAN: Two front teeth and a lower front teeth, but that was a month ago. At that age, that could change fast. Otherwise, just this beautiful precious baby, no identifying marks as far as moles or anything like that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beauty mark on her inner thigh according to a couple of published reports.

Look at this child. Look at this baby. So much complex information. We`re trying to sort it out, we`re trying to figure out what happened to this child. We want to find her, we want to find her alive, we want to bring her home safe and sound. She deserves it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Congratulations to our very own Nancy Grace for her fantastic performance last night on "Dancing with the Stars." It was `80s week and Nancy and her amazing dancing partner Tristan took command of the dance floor with the rumba.

Way to go, Nancy, you can win this thing, we know it. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Dancing the rumba, Nancy Grace and her partner, Tristan MacManus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Superb. She`s going to win it, I`m telling you right here, right now.

Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Specialist Kyle Fernandez, 26 years old from Hawaii. Killed in Afghanistan. He was awarded the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star. He loved family campouts at the beach, body boarding, and contemporary Hawaiian music. He leaves behind parents Renald and Noe, his sister Kehau, his brother Koa, his widow Celeste, his daughter Kyla and his son KJ.

Kyle Fernandez, a true American hero.

Thank you to all our guests and thanks to you at home. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern right here. Until then, have a safe evening.

And Nancy, you can win it. We know you can.

END