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Nancy Grace
FBI, Cops Search Missing Baby`s Home; Cops Raiding Baby Lisa`s Home
Aired October 19, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, the heartland. A 10- month-old baby sleeping in a crib just feet away from her own mother, Daddy on the midnight, goes missing without a trace, front door unlocked, front window open, every cell phone gone.
Grainy surveillance video emerges, Mommy shopping with a mystery man just hours before baby Lisa vanishes. What does Mommy buy? Baby food and a big box of wine. After baby Lisa`s mom admits she was knocked-out drunk the night baby Lisa disappears, Mommy now says she sees baby Lisa last at 6:40 PM, not 10:30. Mommy`s new story is costing (ph) me (ph) a full four hours.
Tonight, cops confirm Mommy and Daddy avoiding investigators for days, refusing to answer key questions. After FBI, cops search dogs and real life CSI swarm a heavily wooded area and a deep rock quarry a half mile from the home, a sighting of the missing baby.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, cops get a search warrant, raiding the crime scene, the family home. As baby Lisa`s parents lawyer up with a high-powered lawyer, we confirm investigators seize the family`s computer hard drive. Tonight, where is 10-month-old baby Lisa?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lisa`s mother, Deborah Bradley.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She dropped a couple of bombshells.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Inconsistencies in her story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says the last time she saw baby Lisa was 6:40.
DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER: Changed her, you know, put fresh clothes on her, get her ready for bed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The difference between putting kid to bed at 6:40 and 10:30 is huge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shift her story for four hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10:30 when she put her daughter to bed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Made sure her binky was in her crib in case she needed it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He noticed the screen is busted and his 10- month-old daughter is missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Totally messes up the timeline.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be advised that he didn`t witness anything and doesn`t know how long she`s been gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police wanting to be sure that they haven`t missed anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Return Lisa home safely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. A 10-month-old baby girl sleeping in a crib goes missing without a trace. In the last hours, cops get a search warrant, raiding the crime scene, the family home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to baby Lisa?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A search warrant to search the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Complete mystery at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s been missing for more than two weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No idea where baby Lisa Irwin might be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re looking for the baby. We can`t wait until she gets home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Residential burglary in progress (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That call initiates the intense search for Lisa Irwin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deborah Bradley, Lisa`s mother, and another man walk into this grocery store.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They had a box of wine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see police cars here in front of baby Lisa`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last person to see her is the baby`s mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The front door unlocked.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most of the lights were on in the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The window just on the edge of the house there they had found open.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ten-month-old daughter gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would somebody get out of the house with baby Lisa?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did it took like anything was disturbed in her room? I mean, did anything look out of place, other than her not being there?
BRADLEY: No. No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. I want to go straight out to Jim Spellman, CNN correspondent, Kansas City. He`s there at the Irwin home. Jim Spellman, thank you for being with us.
Cops have swooped back down on the family home, the so-called crime scene, pursuant to a search warrant. It`s my understanding that in the past, the family allowed them in with consent. In other words, cops don`t have to get a search warrant if you let them come in. This time, they`re coming into the home with a search warrant. And also, the family has been booted. They cannot come back into the home, according to police, for as long as it takes.
What do you know, Jim Spellman?
JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That`s right. As soon as this search warrant was issued Tuesday night, police showed up here, two or three cars at a time, barring access from the family into baby Lisa`s home.
Today investigators are here, local police as well as the FBI. CSI units are in the house investigating. They say that it`s not based on a new tip. They say that they`re doing due diligence. But Nancy, this is a much different kind of search than we`ve seen from the consensual searches when police have entered in the last week or so.
GRACE: Jim Spellman, why are they dressed in moonsuits? I can see that, but why are they dressed like that. What`s happening?
SPELLMAN: Well, we`re not sure, but this is a totally different kind of team than we`ve seen go in the past. In the past, we`ve seen some uniformed officers and some plainclothes detective types go in, including one time with dogs. But they`ve really ramped up this search. They have the whole CSI van with them here, and like you said, in the moonsuits. They`re clearly doing a different level of search than they`ve done in the past.
We don`t know exactly what they`re looking for, but we know it must be key to the investigation if they need to get a search warrant for it and it`s not something they found under previous consensual searches.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Quickly, to Steve Kardian, former police detective, self-defense expert, lead instructor at Defend University. Steve, the suits that police are wearing this time, those are most likely real-life CSI crime scene investigators. Let`s see those shots, Dana, please.
It looks as if they are going in now for forensic evidence that they fear they may have missed the first time. I`m talking about microscopic evidence, possibly using luminol, looking for other fingerprints, for hair, for fiber. When I say fiber, I mean carpet fiber, clothing fiber, looking at the baby`s crib on the inside to see if any fiber from the abductor`s clothes were in the crib, on the sheets, on the blankets.
Steve Kardian, I know that there was a -- I think a Barney, a stuffed dinosaur, in the crib with the baby. They may be looking at that. They may be looking for things beyond the naked eye. What do you make of it, Kardian.
STEVE KARDIAN, FMR. POLICE DETECTIVE, DEFEND UNIVERSITY: Well, any -- a professional CSI team`s going to go in with the suits so as not to contaminate the evidence that may be there. They`re going to go through that house with a fine-toothed comb. They are looking for any evidence that someone forcibly entered that house. They are looking for hair and fiber evidence. They`re going to be looking for DNA and fingerprints that may show that someone was inside that house that is not related to the family.
GRACE: Right.
KARDIAN: And they`re going to go through it with a fine-toothed comb. The FBI has many options at their -- at their fingertips, as opposed to local law enforcement. So it`s a good thing that they`re involved. I think that it`s going to be...
GRACE: You`re right about that, Steve Kardian.
Back to Jim Spellman, joining us outside the family home. You`re seeing behind him the spot where cops went in and out and in and out of that front window of the home. Also behind him, you see the neighborhood, a quiet family residential area. Nothing like this has ever happened there before.
Jim Spellman, I`m a little twisted up on this. What am I hearing, that the parents haven`t spoken in depth to the cops since October 8th?
SPELLMAN: That`s right, 11 days now. You know, and investigators really want to be able to question them freely not only for what happened that night, but they`ve gotten over 550 credible tips. Every one of those they want to be able to run by family, see if that lines up somehow with someone they may know, someplace they may have been. Without that cooperation, police are getting more frustrated every day as they operate in the dark sometimes, doing searches without information from the family that could have been, you know, eliminated even having to do them if they could just speak freely with the family.
That`s a growing divide and it`s gotten a little more serious even since this new attorney, Joe Tacopina, is on the scene. He`s -- he insists they want to cooperate, but they still aren`t talking. And nor are the two boys, the half-brothers of baby Lisa that were in the home that night. Family refuses to allow them to be re-interviewed, either, Nancy.
GRACE: You know what? That`s another interesting point, Jim Spellman, that now the mom and dad are refusing to allow the children to speak to cops anymore. They`ve had one interview with police, is my understanding. And we also have learned that at one juncture, the two boys said they heard noises that night.
A lot is getting redefined, refocused in this case. We understand Mommy now says she had at least five glasses of wine that night. Remember, she bought a big, honkin` box of wine at the grocery store.
Let`s see that video, Dana. Ramp it up for me. Around 5:00 PM. We now have Mommy changing her story, saying that she now saw the child last at 6:30 PM, not 10:30 PM. That loses four critical hours in the search for baby Lisa.
Not only that, when the neighbor, the neighbor lady, I think, is sitting on the front porch with Mommy, the children are inside watching TV, the baby is down at 6:30. Mommy`s out getting a snootful on the front porch around 6:00 or so. The neighbor leaves, looks back and sees the lights go off in the home.
Now, Mommy says she doesn`t remember turning the lights off, but who else would have done it? This means, did she go to bed without checking on the baby?
We are taking your calls. Out to Monica in Kansas. Hi, Monica. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just want to say I`m really, really sick of hearing about these stories. And I want to thank you for your proceeds from "Dancing With the Stars" to go to the missing and exploited children.
GRACE: You know what, Monica? I really, really appreciate that. And I know I shouldn`t let it get into my life this way, but when I hear stories about this, I get so worried about my own twins, who are 3, I can hardly stand it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your twins have the best mom that there could be. And my question is, ever since I had my 5-year-old son, I became such a light sleeper. Even if I had a beer or two, you know, which is not good, but if I hear any noise or any coughing or him moving around, even to go to the bathroom, I would wake up instantly and say, What`s going on. I can`t believe this mother did not hear a lick of anything since the room was so close to her room.
GRACE: You know, Monica in Kansas, she said she had five glasses of wine and that she was basically knocked out of drunk, that she may have even blacked out.
And the other thing I found out -- let me go back to Jim Spellman. Hold onto Monica because I don`t know if I got her question or not. Jim, the daddy normally worked at a different place during the day, but this night, he was helping redesign, I think, lighting or electricity or something at a -- what`s the coffee place, Ellie? Starbucks. At a Starbucks.
SPELLMAN: Starbucks.
GRACE: So he was gone that night. Tell me about that.
SPELLMAN: Yes, that was the only night he had ever worked the night shift. And her changing the timeline from 10:30 to 6:40 is important because he may still have been home the last time that she saw baby Lisa. Completely changes the timeline of where he was during the disappearance, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, Jim Spellman, you couldn`t have said it better. Drastically changes the timeline.
Look at this baby, baby Lisa, 10 months, allegedly snatched from her own crib. Tonight, where is 10-month-old baby Lisa? Police institute a no-fly zone over the area. What does it mean?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our main priority, our number one goal is to find this child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police cars have been here in front of the missing baby Lisa`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They decided to stop talking to detectives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police here have a search warrant to search this home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to look for more evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is it that cops are having trouble now reaching the parents?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the parents have not been that cooperative.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barred the parents of baby Lisa from entering this home again.
BRADLEY: Try to think of anything or any reason this might have happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighty-two percent of all abductions involve a family member.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She made some very stupid, irresponsible choices by drinking when she`s home alone with the baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is admitting she was drunk.
BRADLEY: I can`t be without her!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just want people to keep their focus on finding her. That`s all we need right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live in the search for baby Lisa. And now I find out the timeline has totally changed. First Mommy says she put the baby down or last checked on the baby at 10:30. Now we`re hearing Mommy got a snootful on the front porch, wine, sitting there chatting with a neighbor, Daddy at the night shift. And she last saw the baby at 6:30.
To Marc Klaas, the expert, president and founder, Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, those four hours are critical in the search for this baby. Explain.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, it`s absolutely unbelievable, Nancy, because what they`re trying to do is establish the timelines so that they can launch a viable investigation. When was the last time somebody saw baby Lisa? When was the last time -- when was she reported missing? And you work then from within those parameters.
I think what we`re seeing here, particularly this morning, is that law enforcement has not lost their sense of urgency on this issue. They realize that every moment counts. The family, on the other hand, and their representatives, are treating this as if it`s some kind of a garden party. They don`t have that sense of urgency. They don`t seem to have the recovery of baby Lisa as their number one priority.
GRACE: With me, Marc Klaas. Marc went through a very similar incident when his beautiful little girl, Polly, went missing from her bedroom. Marc Klaas did everything possible. He practically lay down on the front of the police station, saying, Take my DNA, take my polygraph, clear me, look for the person that took my girl! We are not seeing that out of the parents.
On the other hand -- to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter at Radaronline.com. Alexis, today I hear -- well, in the last hours, that Mommy says she was shown some burned clothing, and I believe they said doppler (ph), which we normally associate with the weather -- doppler printout of the pings on their three cell phones that were taken from the home -- burned clothing and pings on their cell phones as to where the cell phones were, and that she later was, quote, "led to believe" that that evidence was made up.
Now, I find -- I find it hard to believe cops would bring in burned clothes and a fake cell phone ping printout. But if cops or anybody did do that to me, I would immediately go hire a lawyer, or I would go in and demand to find out what was going on. I don`t know that I would hire a lawyer with my child missing. I would want to know why they did that.
What do you know about this allegation police showed them burned clothing that was all trumped up?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: That`s exactly right. She has said that cops did that. They showed her burned clothing. She said that eventually, she learned that it wasn`t true. What she said is, basically, that the police were trying to trick her into admitting that she had done something to her daughter, and that`s when she got so angry, she decided that she didn`t want to continue the line of conversation.
The police quote was that she became uncomfortable with the line of questioning. What she has said and what (ph) her attorney is that she absolutely doesn`t want the attention to be focused on her. She says there`s somebody out there...
GRACE: Well, you know...
TERESZCUK: ... that has taken her daughter and...
GRACE: I appreciate...
TERESZCUK: ... she wants to...
GRACE: ... that. I appreciate that, Alexis. But Jim Spellman, when you don`t speak to cops, even if you think they pulled a dirty trick on you, and it`s your baby missing, you don`t talk to them since October 8th, I got a problem with that!
SPELLMAN: So do the police and the FBI here. They would love to be able to have contact with them and not find out about these discrepancies in the timeline, not find out about the drinking by watching the news.
GRACE: Hey, Jim!
SPELLMAN: Incredibly frustrating...
GRACE: Jim! Jim! Jim!
SPELLMAN: ... for them here...
GRACE: Jim, is it true Mommy walked out on a police interrogation because she had to do a national interview for the TV?
SPELLMAN: Absolutely. That`s exactly what we`ve heard from investigators here. She had a TV interview, and she left to do that instead of speaking with the police.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is the baby? Seriously, where`s the baby?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police brought out ATVs and search dogs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They looked through dumpsters, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is what makes me look so sad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone was looking for a handyman and one neighbor (INAUDIBLE) you know, there`s a handyman on every corner here.
GRACE: Mommy says she`s taken a polygraph and she`s afraid she failed.
BRADLEY: Call the tips hotline if you know where she`s at!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Firefighters went down into the well about 30 feet deep.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their investigation focusing on baby Lisa`s bedroom when she put her daughter to bed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The day Lisa was reported missing was a Tuesday, and Tuesday is trash day around here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live. To Jim Spellman joining me there outside the family home. I`m just getting a wire in my hand right now. The bomb and arson truck headed to the scene. Bomb and arson truck?
SPELLMAN: Yes, we`ve been told by the Kansas City police they have deployed that to assist in this investigation but that there`s no explosives in the house, but they have some technology of some sort in there that will help them with this search.
GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls, but I want to unleash the lawyers, Darrell Cohen, defense attorney, Atlanta, Lorna Owens, defense attorney, Miami.
First to you, Darrell. Look, the viewers may not know it, Darrell, but I know it, that you were a felony prosecutor in inner-city Atlanta for many, many years before you went to the other side to become a defense lawyer.
Listen, Darrell, how can you not hear somebody coming in the window, stealing all your cell phones, wandering around the house, turning all the lights on, taking your baby? I hear now that the baby bottle was found on the floor. Surely, they must have left it in the crib. You don`t hear any of this, and the baby`s only a few feet away? Look at this diagram! Mommy`s right next to the baby.
DARRELL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, look, let`s not castigate her. We know she made some mistakes.
GRACE: Well, I`m sorry. I can`t hear you. Wa-wa! Let`s not do what?
COHEN: Let`s not castigate her. She should not have been drinking. No question. But that doesn`t mean...
GRACE: I don`t care about her drinking! I care about the baby being gone.
COHEN: Well, you obviously do. You obviously do.
GRACE: Mommy can...
COHEN: Nancy, you do care.
GRACE: ... booze it up all she wants to!
COHEN: But she shouldn`t have been...
GRACE: No, I don`t care!
COHEN: ... drinking, but that doesn`t make her a bad mother. That doesn`t mean -- sure, she was scared.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) said that.
COHEN: ... so she said, OK, it was 10:30. Turns out she lied. That doesn`t make her a bad mother. It means she`s frightened. They initially cooperated with the police...
GRACE: Darrell, that`s not what I asked you!
COHEN: ... and law enforcement. I understand, but...
GRACE: That`s not what I asked you!
COHEN: But she couldn`t hear it because she was obviously drinking. That makes her irresponsible.
GRACE: OK, Lorna, weigh in.
LORNA OWENS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree with Darrell, Nancy. There`s nothing that says a mother can`t have a glass of wine or whatever the issue is.
GRACE: What is with you two?
OWENS: No. The issue is...
GRACE: I don`t care about her drinking! You know...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... all she wants to. I care about the baby, Lorna Owens!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s still missing. We still have her back.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: New developments in the case of missing Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re looking for a baby --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She disappeared from her home, her crib.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But you can access the backyard of the house through a small public area with a stream running through it.
JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KTRH RADIO: She had admitted to downing a good portion of a box of wine. Even said she possibly blacked out that night.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You only have to walk nine homes down to the right and turn and you`re into a densely wooded area.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Drinking too much while you have small children in the house.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The possibilities open up for how somebody could get away from this home.
DEBORAH BRADLEY, MISSING 10-MONTH-OLD INFANT`S MOTHER: They just walked in and just disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The FBI and even the National Guard have focused their searches in this wooded area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Welcome back. We are live at the scene where baby Lisa goes missing out of her crib. Mommy sleeping just feet away. Daddy first time on the night shift. Two minor boys also asleep in the home that night.
We are live and taking your calls. More and more coming out.
Jim Spellman, CNN correspondent, joining us there on the scene.
You know, the defense lawyers are screaming, it`s not a crime to have a drink. That`s not the issue, Jim Spellman. They`re right. I give them this, Jim. It`s not a crime to get drunk on your front porch. All right. My concern is why nobody heard anything and why mommy is now changing her story.
When did this shift turn from seeing the baby at 10:30 to seeing the baby four hours earlier at 6:30. When did that happen?
JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This shift happened Sunday night, when the mother, Deborah Bradley, decided to do some media interviews and start talking about this being drunk, admitting that she possibly even was blacked out and changing that timeline when they talked to the media. It wasn`t until the next morning when those interviews aired that police knew that information.
And Nancy, it`s really essential also to people here in the community, what did you see that night at 10:30 is a lot different than what did you see at 6:40 when you might have been out and about, driving, getting dinner, coming home from work. Vastly different time of day for people to focus on and for investigators to focus on.
GRACE: Another issue is the -- the neighbor. The neighbor was there with the mom on the front porch, drinking wine until about what time, Matt Zarrell? When do we believe the neighbor left the scene?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: We believe that the neighbor left around 10:30, Nancy. And one thing I did want to mention there is that the cops had actually went to the neighbor`s home and reportedly searched with dogs and were reportedly seen taken bags of evidence out of the home.
Now cops would not comment if it`s connected to the case. They say it`s just part of their investigation. But it is interesting to note that it is the same neighbor that was allegedly drinking with the mother Deborah Bradley on the porch the night the baby disappeared.
GRACE: You know what? You`re right about that, Matt. You`re -- that`s a very good point. So they go in the neighbor`s home and also take out bags of evidence?
ZARRELL: Yes, that is what`s been reported including bringing search dogs to that home, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, Matt, what can you tell me about a no-fly zone, because in the past we typically see a no-fly zone over a crime scene when they found a body. We know as of right now there has not been a body found.
ZARRELL: Correct, but there is a no-fly zone within a one mile radius around the home. And Nancy, there was also a no-fly yesterday when cops and police, they swarmed to the wooded area right by the home. There`s was a no-fly zone. There were CSI trucks, technicians out there. Cops thought they might have found something. It turned out unfortunately they did not find anything.
But the no-fly is interesting, Nancy. We`ve seen this before when there is a body found they do restrict the airspace but we do believe a body has not been found as of now.
GRACE: Joining me right now, Tracy Sargent, search and rescue recovery specialist.
Tracy, give me your analysis about what`s happening there at the crime scene now and also we`ve seen FBI and local police swarming a deep rock quarry and dense woods less than a mile from the family home.
What does it all say to you in addition to fact that they`ve executed a search warrant, they`re back at the family home now in moon suits?
TRACE SARGENT, SEARCH AND RESCUE RECOVERY SPECIALIST: Well, as mentioned earlier, the law enforcement officials are doing due diligence in this case. It`s a very sensitive matter. There`s inconsistencies about the information that they are getting so they want to just really cross all their T`s, dot all their I`s, and make sure everything is checked and double checked.
Not only there inside the family`s home but now we`re looking at the neighbor`s home, and then now we have a rock quarry. What investigators are doing is searching what we call high probable areas first and focusing a lot of resources and effort in those high probable areas not only for evidence but certainly for Lisa if she`s there and determine where she -- what happened to her, and if there`s any leads or any information they can find out.
GRACE: Right.
SARGENT: Where that would lead them in the direction of finding her. In this case it was mentioned about dogs. Dogs are an excellent resource not only inside the home but the rock quarry, determine if there`s anything in the water or around the rock quarry itself the dogs will be able to pick that up whether it`s evidence or human remains.
GRACE: And you know, Tracy, I`m so glad you said that because a lot of civilians don`t know that dogs can actually pick up a scent in water, or under water, of a human.
We`re taking your calls, to Jaime in Alabama. Hi, Jaime, what`s your question?
JAMIE, CALLER FROM ALABAMA: Hello. Right now I really want to believe the parents but as days go by it`s just not happening. I`m just really concerned for this little girl right now. But my question is, back when the story first broke there was somebody -- a neighbor I believe -- that they`ve seen a man carrying a baby walking down the street. Has that ever been explained if there was another baby out that night?
GRACE: OK. Let`s go back to that. I recall that.
I know, Jim Spellman, that there was a local handyman that had also been homeless at some point that was seen in the area the week surrounding baby Lisa`s disappearance. But what do you know -- it`s my understanding the story about a man with the baby was never confirmed.
SPELLMAN: That`s my understanding as well. There was a homeless man who went by the name of Jersey that was seen in the area. Last Saturday over the weekend the police found him and arrested him on what they say is unrelated warrant. They say they don`t believe that he has anything to do with the investigation.
Initially when I got to this neighborhood, Nancy, somebody leaving on foot with a baby seem -- didn`t seem possible to me but as I walked around and search the neighborhood myself I discovered only nine houses away a path into a densely wooded area.
And FBI, police and even the National Guard had searched that area at least twice. We still can see the flags where they marked areas that they want to come back to. So we know that that is on their radar. It leads right into a densely wooded area and paths that lead away from baby Lisa`s house.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Jake Deutsch, doctor of emergency medicine. Dr. Deutsch joining us out of New York.
Dr. Deutsch, authorities respond to a dumpster fire, a dumpster fire just a few blocks away from the home. This fire was reported only 90 minutes before baby Lisa was reported missing. If evidence had been burned, can any DNA survive fire?
DR. JAKE DEUTSCH, M.D., DOCTOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE: Sure. It just depends on the amount of decomposition. So if the baby was burned and still parts were intact in terms of bone, hair, any blood, that all would be important information. I think that the genetics in this type of case are going to be the key to solving the crime.
GRACE: Dr. Jake Deutsch, joining us.
And very quickly, back to the lawyers, Darryl Cohen, Lorna Owens.
You know what I don`t get, Darryl Cohen, is -- I was trying to find my children, do you think I would make cops get a search warrant to come to my home?
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy --
GRACE: Oh, no. I`d be getting a search warrant to get them to my home. So explain that one to me, you and Lauren Owens.
You first, Cohen.
COHEN: I`ll be glad to, Nancy. Number one --
GRACE: Good. Go right ahead.
COHEN: The cops used hickory, dickory, trickery. Once the cops lied to her, scared her to death and I don`t blame her. How in the world can you expect cooperation from someone who knows --
GRACE: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I hear you with a nursery rhyme. Hickory, Dickory Dock." Thanks, Darryl.
COHEN: You got it.
GRACE: Your turn, Lorna.
LORNA OWENS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, there are no manuals or timetable as it relates to how people react to trauma. Trauma knows no time. Every case has discrepancies. And this poor woman she is going through living hell. Anything is possible.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This afternoon they did another search of the home here, and the area they had dogs out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much had you to drink, and she didn`t know. She couldn`t tell us.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In her statement or words she failed the polygraph meaning that there was deception indicated in our parlance. That is saying then that she is not telling the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The blackout basically means that you don`t form memories.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s concerning that she has no remorse or thinking that she`s done something wrong and she also has no remorse over the fact that she clearly is telling a different story now. Does that mean she`s either lying before or she`s lying now?
LAUREN LAKE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I know people want to completely villainize this woman because she did things that we think are irresponsible, maybe immoral.
WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: Courts have said we can use lying, trickery when it comes to interviewing suspects. In this case you use extraordinary circumstances because of the fact that we`re talking about a baby here.
LAKE: Now that she has a lawyer she can tell her full story. She can say what she was scared to say in the beginning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live in front of the family home taking your calls.
To Dr. Kathryn Smerling, psychologist joining us out of New York. You know, Dr. Smerling, I`m not casting doubt in any way on the parents, all right. But my question is, do you think most people would care if police were wrongly accusing them of something? I mean they are not charged. They are not arrested. They are not behind bars.
As opposed to, if their main interest was finding the missing child? I just prop myself up at the police station and say fine, handcuff me, but what can I do to help find my baby.
KATHRYN SMERLING, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: I think that that is correct, Nancy. However, in this case the parents are not particularly sophisticated people. They have -- they were badgered by the police and I`m sure that they became very, very confused afterwards. And the mother has something to hide.
What she did was to take a lethal cocktail. Five glasses of wine plus anti-anxiety medication with three children sleeping in the house. Must have caused a blackout for her. And she probably does not remember, it does erase memory after that. So I`m sure that she`s shaken up and as one of the people said, I think it was one of the lawyers, trauma has no timeline.
You can experience trauma right after your child disappears, or a year after your child disappears. I`m not condoning her behavior. But I am saying that there is an explanation for her behavior at this moment.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to David in Illinois.
Hi, David. What`s your question?
DAVID, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Nancy, love your show, first of all. I just thought there was something rotten in Denmark with an alibi or something the family has been claiming. They claim all three cell phones were taken and also they said the father was working until 4:00 a.m. for the first time ever.
Now why didn`t he have his cell phone with him? When you leave your house don`t you bring your cell phone especially as a father?
GRACE: OK. Hold on, David -- David in Illinois, don`t move. Don`t let him go.
First of all, the daddy had a cell phone with him.
Ellie, was at it personal or work phone? OK. He had a work cell phone with him. I don`t know about his personal cell phone if that was one of the three that were charging at home. OK. So that`s the answer to one of your questions.
What was the other thing, David in Illinois?
DAVID: Well, I just thought it was -- my whole thing was basically about the cell phone. I just thought as a father wouldn`t he have his cell phone to talk to his wife if he was out for the first time until 4:00 a.m., or --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, I agree with that. And another thing, David in Illinois, number one, I don`t know this is going to be a continuing job or if it was just in the interim when they were trying to get that Starbucks lighting and electricity fixed. I don`t know if they`re redesigning it or opening a new one.
But my question, I don`t understand why a perp would come in and take all the cell phones with them and also I know the mom and dad are saying that they were shown cell phone ping records but we haven`t heard anything about that.
If you were having your phones charged, would you have turned them off, David in Illinois? Do you turn your phones off to charge them or not?
DAVID: I leave it on all the time because if you turn it off you miss text messages. And you know in this day and age that`s how you keep in touch with a lot of friends.
GRACE: Yes, I`m in the practice now of just leaving my BlackBerries turned on when I charge them at night. Another thing, and I want to go out to Marc Klaas on this.
Marc, I know the mom had a snootful, she was drunk. But you know when I get home at night from doing the dance practice and doing -- for eight hours and doing the show, and I play with the children, I bathe them and I feed them and I get them to bed, by the time I finally hit the sack, a lot of times, Marc Klaas, Lucy and/or John David will both have come from their beds into my room and are actually getting into the bed with me when I wake up.
I`m not defending the mom for having a snootful but what I`m saying is I think it`s possible not to hear what`s going on, Marc Klaas.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, you know you`re being kind of kind. I mean she admittedly had a possible blackout. She was truly bombed out of her mind. Now this is new information to law enforcement as well as to the public and I think what they are doing is they are realizing that not given all of the information that is required and only finding these things out in the aftermath that they have to go back into that house.
Now it`s quite possible that something terrible happened and she might not even remember it. But it`s quite possible there was a terrible accident if she was in such an inebriated state and if that is the case she would not have been in a position to take the baby, a baby that she might have accidentally killed, and stashed that baby anywhere far from the house.
I think quite frankly they`re back in that house to see if -- one of the reasons they`re back in the house is to see if there was some terrible accident that evening and the mother in desperation hid the remains of the baby some place.
GRACE: You know, I want to say, again, the parents are not a suspect. They are not named suspects.
Marc, I want to go back to you on this. If the mom was plastered that much, she was out of her gourd that much, how could she stage a cover-up?
KLAAS: Well, I don`t know that she could stage a cover-up. It would be a very weak cover-up. But who knows what one can do in that state of inebriation. I mean it`s quite possible that they`ll find something under the floor board, or they`ll find something in very, very close proximity to the home, something that was not well organized or not well executed.
I just think that that`s one of the scenarios they`re looking at in the aftermath of the realization of all of this new information.
GRACE: I want to go back to Jim Spellman, joining me there at the family home in Kansas City, Missouri. I also learned that the cops have seized the family computer hard drive. What do we know about that, Jim?
SPELLMAN: That`s right. They`ve taken the hard drive. The family says they want the hard drive back to get some videos off of it to release to the public, more videos of baby Lisa to try to stir interest.
We do know that they have that very interesting these CSI teams that are in the house. They are now using -- today they`re using a ladder that they have been bringing in and out of the house. It`s not a -- it`s not a big house. We haven`t seen them use it on the outside of the house but bring it inside the house. Seems like they used it in there, and now they brought that back out.
Also this bomb squad unit is now on the scene. Police tell us that`s not because there`s an explosive here but that there`s some tools that they`re going to use to help them with that. That`s all happening in the house today.
GRACE: Everybody, we are live in the search for 10-month-old baby Lisa. How many people in this country would pay a ransom, a king`s sum, to have a beautiful baby like this? This baby allegedly snatched out of her own crib.
Tip line, 816-474-8477. The reward now topping $100,000.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It is game on for these folks. They are not only doing the right thing in hiring excellent, nationally known counsel --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wanting to do absolutely everything to find baby Lisa. And us turning into a lynch mob without evidence of proven guilt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Everyone, I want to thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for all of your support. I can`t even tell you about the love, the e- mails, the letters, the phone calls, the votes for us on "Dancing with the Stars."
This week, as you know, was `80s week, and we managed to make it to week 6 with our rumba. And man, I`ve got to tell you, how hard I worked on that thing. But we`re still in it because of you.
It`s already back to rehearsal for next week which is Broadway. And come Monday, come hell or high water, I promise my partner Tristan and I will bring you the perfect foxtrot. And again, thank you for sticking with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy and Tristan. You`re safe. TRISTAN MACMANUS, NANCY GRACE`S DANCING PARTNER: Because I didn`t know what was going on. I was hoping Carson. And when I turned around, I heard the words, "You`re safe." I didn`t know what they were talking about.
TOM BERGERON, HOST, "DANCING WITH THE STARS": Carson and Anna.
CARSON KRESSLEY, CONTESTANT, "DANCING WITH THE STARS": We could do crimes of fashion. Tune in for a very special Nancy Grace, when we talk about people who wear white after Labor Day. Let`s talk to the D.A.
GRACE: If I can just listen to Tristan and get this rumba down, hopefully Len will find it exciting.
LEN GOODMAN, JUDGE, "DANCING WITH THE STARS": It was simple, but it was very effective. It had an elegance about it which I enjoyed very much. There was a few little unstable moments during the course of it. But overall I thought you did a very good job.
BERGERON: All right. There you go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Guys, thank you.
Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Bobby Beasley, 36, Inwood, West Virginia, killed Afghanistan. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Expert Rifle Badge. Loved camping, outdoors, watching wildlife. Fly fishing, building his own rods. Had four photos published. Remembered as a family man. Leaves behind grandparents William and Juanita, brothers Louis and John. Widow Juanita.
Bobby Beasley, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. And our thoughts and prayers to our friend David Hilliard.
David, get well. Stay strong.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then good night, friend.
END
