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AMERICAN MORNING

"Mad Dog" Down; Interview with Senator John McCain; GE's Profit Climbs 57 Percent; Girl Scouts Adds Money Badges; Occupy Wall Street Movement Taking Donations To Sustain Protests; Moammar Gadhafi Killed in Libya; Owning Exotic Animals; Inside "Kiss Inc."

Aired October 21, 2011 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Mad dog down. I'm Carol Costello.

Moammar Gadhafi lying dead in the street. New details how he was taken out and NATO's role.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Now it's time to start a new Libya.

I'm Christine Romans.

Senator John McCain is here to tell us why the United States still has work to do there -- on this AMERICAN MORNING.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

COSTELLO: Oh, good morning. It is Friday. Happy Friday. My very favorite day of the week besides Saturday and Sunday.

It's October 21st, Ali has the day off.

ROMANS: He certainly does.

But, first, happening right now, another Gadhafi on the run. His most-wanted son being hunted down by revolutionary fighters. A senior member of Libya's National Transitional Council says Saif al- Islam is still alive and they know where he is and he'll be captured very soon. Saif is wanted by the International Criminal Court on war crimes charges. There were false reports he was also killed yesterday.

COSTELLO: In the meantime, there's still a fog surrounding the death of his father, former Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi. One thing is for sure, Gadhafi is gone. There is video proving that he has died and we're going to show that to you now -- and warn you, once again, it is graphic.

Gadhafi captured alive by opposition forces. You see him in there being bloodied and badly wounded and being manhandled. Officially, the new Libyan government says he was killed in the crossfire as they tried to take his hometown of Sirte.

Gadhafi was found hiding in a sewer with a golden pistol. He had a New York Yankees cap on that guy. One more strange thing out of Libya this morning, the opposition fighter, as you just saw was cheering in victory after Gadhafi's capture.

ROMANS: All right. Chris Lawrence joins us live now from the Pentagon. Chris, you're learning new details about how Gadhafi died. What are your sources telling you this morning?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Christine, it's specifically what role NATO played in that final strike in the hours before Gadhafi was killed or died.

We're now learning that there was a convoy of about 75 vehicles that were speeding out of the city of Sirte. High rate of speed, NATO now says these vehicles were heavily armed with ammunition and air asset, which we believe to be either the French jet or the American predator drone hit that convoy damaging one vehicle. Again, only 1 out of the 75, but it was enough to stop the convoy, disperse it.

Some of the people in that convoy then got out on foot, which officials believe Gadhafi was part of. Several of those vehicles, probably about 20 of them continue to go at a high rate of speed out of the city. That's when the other air asset, again either the predator drone hit that convoy, again, which damaged about 10 vehicles.

So, there were actually two separate strikes on this convoy. Very large, very well armed -- Christine.

COSTELLO: Well, this is Carol, Chris. I'm just wondering -- I interviewed Congressman Ruppersberger a little bit earlier this morning and I asked him if he thought it was an execution because some people say the wound on Moammar Gadhafi's head kind of illustrate somebody shot him in the head at close range. Ruppersberger said it's important that there'd be an investigation as to how Moammar Gadhafi died.

Then I asked him if, well, if it's deemed an execution, what happens?

LAWRENCE: That's a very good question. You bring up a great point. You know, the video that we have seen is incredibly graphic. We want to warn viewers right off the bat.

But there was a point in the story where the official line from the NTC of how Gadhafi died and what we see with our eyes with the video simply does not match up, they say that they found him in a drainage pipe. There was a crossfire -- a shootout in which he was wounded and died.

But the video clearly shows that he was dragged across the hood of a car, that he was wounded, obviously, but still very much alive. So, the actual moment of his death, exactly how he died is still in some dispute. Obviously, it brings very much to the forefront what some NATO officials have been saying in that the NTC has to get very firm control of the various militias that are operating.

This is, at times, sort of a ragtag collection of groups that sort of unified under the one goal of overthrowing Gadhafi, but the NTC has not always had great control over some of the militias. An incident like this and when you see video like this really brings NATO's point back to the forefront to say that the NTC, you know, in order to really go forward and establish a government, you know, which is the overriding big goal here, they're going to have to get a firmer control of some of the militia groups.

ROMANS: But, ironic that the alliance, the NATO of alliance may have killed him on his own anyway with the drone strike in the first place and none of these questions would have been asked, you know? I mean, we think that he survived, obviously. We know he survived the initial drone strike, but that could have very well killed him if things had gone differently.

COSTELLO: Well, I think the most interesting thing is there's still continuing to investigate exactly how Moammar Gadhafi died. It's against international law to execute the leader of a country. You're supposed to bring him to trial. And if it's deemed that he was executed, it will just be interesting to see where it goes from there, especially since, you know, Libya doesn't exactly have a government in place.

We're going to talk to Senator John McCain about that.

Chris Lawrence, thank you very much.

ROMANS: Yes, big challenges ahead for Libya. It won't be easy building a democracy from the ruins of a 40-year dictatorship.

So, how will it best be accomplished and what role will the United States play? Let's ask Senator John McCain, the ranking member of the Armed Services Committee. He joins us live from Washington.

Senator, thank you for being here.

I want to bring you in on this discussion about the manner and the way in which Moammar Gadhafi died. Is it -- do you believe the NTC when they say that this was not an execution, that this was, you know, caught in the crossfire in the chaotic moments after capturing him? And does it matter to you exactly how he died?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Well, obviously, it matters to some degree and, as you just pointed out supposed that the airstrike had killed him, as well. But, I think the important point is that we do have to have the militias join together in a national army under the NTC. This is kind of a fog of war sort of situation.

I think the important thing is that the NTC gained control of the military to have a functioning democracy and that's not going to be real easy.

ROMANS: What should the role be of the United States and the NATO alliance and helping them do that?

MCCAIN: Oh, I think we should do a lot. The first thing the United States should do -- and, by the way, I want to thank the British and the French for their leadership and if the United States had used the full weight of our airpower, this conflict would have been over long ago. I want to thank the British, the French, United Arab Emirates and Qatar who played a key leadership role while we led from behind.

First thing we need to do is help them with their wounded. They've got 30,000 wounded. They have no -- they do not have the capability to treat these people. I'd love to see some of these Libyans flown to our Army hospital in Germany. We could send the hospital ship into Tripoli and into the harbor of Tripoli and treat some of these wounded.

Second thing, obviously, is -- I mentioned the militias. The third of these arms spread all over the place, all kinds of weapons, we got to get those under control.

And then we need to go in and help them with the building blocks of democracy. These NGOs like the National Republican Institute and the National Democratic Institute and National Endowment for Democracy, after the Berlin Wall fell they went in and helped the Soviet bloc countries achieve democracy and we could do that, as well.

There's a lot of things we could do to help in making this transition possible. But it's very -- it's going to be very, very tough.

ROMANS: Yes, it really is. And I want to go back to something you just said. You have been giving the president credit for this, but you also said if you used -- we used our firepower better and earlier that this would have ended sooner. Yet, can you -- I mean, that is, I think, an indictment of the so-called "lead from behind" strategy.

But when you look overall, you look at the death of Osama bin Laden, Anwar al-Awlaki, now, Gadhafi, I mean, you have a president here who many foreign policy experts are saying has really led strongly, getting some very bad actors out of the picture. You can't deny that.

MCCAIN: I'm not attempting to deny it. I think they deserve great credit.

At the same time, we're now leaving Iraq completely, which is the number one priority of the Iranian -- of the Iranians. We are taking unnecessary risks in Afghanistan by withdrawing troops there. And I can tell you from traveling the world, that in the world, they believe the United States is withdrawing and is weakening. And that's a fact.

ROMANS: Let's listen to a little bit of what Joe Biden said, the vice president, said yesterday about the way this was enacted with the NATO alliance and the way the U.S. went into this situation. I want you to listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In this case, America spent $2 billion total and didn't lose a single life. This is more the prescription for how to deal with the world as we go forward than it has been in the past.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Do you agree with Joe Biden that this is the way, it shouldn't be the U.S. heading unilaterally into NATO alliance. We didn't have boots on the ground, you know. Is this -- is this a model for other places?

MCCAIN: None of us ever advocated boots on the ground in Libya.

ROMANS: Yes.

MCCAIN: Number two, if we had imposed a no-fly zone early on, it would have been over. If we'd used the full weight of American airpower, we wouldn't have the thousands of dead and wounded that the Libyans have incurred.

Third of all, it's vastly different from Iraq or Afghanistan. They are different situations, just as Syria is different from Libya, and as Yemen. So, each of these are different situations.

So -- and this is the same vice president that said that the surge would never succeed in Iraq and is now succeeding in getting us out of Iraq completely, which puts in my view Iraq in significant danger of having more problems than they otherwise would have. And in Afghanistan, according to military experts, we're now having a greater risk because the president is withdrawing our troops too early. That is my opinion, and that comes from a long experience in the region.

ROMANS: When you look at -- when you look at the Libya situation, in particular, though, one of the things -- one of the things that helped this model was the fact, quite frankly, that this was a lifeline for light sweet crude oil, Libya, for Italy and for Europe, a direct line there. That's another reason why you had such great European interest in the region.

Do you think we could have such multilateral interest together in, say, Syria or Yemen? I mean, I know these are different situations. But do you see this moving forward?

MCCAIN: I think NATO is still very important. I think in the case of Syria, as opposed to Libya, there's no base there as there was in Benghazi for the Libyan rebels. I don't see the military scenario, although we currently certainly could be doing a lot more to provide moral support to the Syrian opposition, just as we did not do when the Iranians rose up and the president refused to support them at that time.

So, there's a lot of things we can do, but each situation is different. Yemen -- I'd like to tell you, I know an answer to Yemen, but I don't right now. It is a chaotic situation and could be a real breeding ground for al Qaeda.

ROMANS: Yes, and that's a concern shared by others as well.

Senator John McCain, thank you so much, sir. Have a wonderful weekend. Thanks.

MCCAIN: Thanks for the interesting conversation. I think that we need to have more of this discussion in America so we can reach consensus.

ROMANS: All right. Thank you, sir.

MCCAIN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Amen.

Here's something you rarely see, cameras rolling as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton looked at her BlackBerry and saw the report that Gadhafi was in custody. She was getting ready for an interview that time. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unconfirmed.

CLINTON: Unconfirmed, yes.

Unconfirmed reports about Gadhafi being captured. Unconfirmed. Yes.

We've had too many -- we've had a bunch of those before. We've had, you know, have had him captured a couple of times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: She sounds like us yesterday, actually, because this is the way all the journalists were reacting. Everyone in Washington hopeful, many of them, but not wanting to get ahead of things because we had heard so many conflicting reports before.

COSTELLO: Yes. It turned out she was sitting down and she was -- actually, wasn't Jill Dougherty in the room when we were talking to her live on the phone yesterday when that very thing happened, and then Jill Dougherty said, "I got to go."

ROMANS: All right.

COSTELLO: Still ahead this morning: the press conferences may be over, but not the public outcry over those exotic animals set loose and later killed in Ohio. Did it have to come to that? Should people be allowed to own exotic animals as pets? And what about that monkey still possibly on the loose?

ROMANS: And up next, flight delays are already stacking up this morning. Frost and freeze warnings head up the east.

Plus, how wet and snowy will it get in your region this winter. I'm not ready to start talking about this yet. Reynolds Wolf is next.

It's about 14 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: All right. Dallas, Texas, good morning. It's clear in 54. Sunny and 82 later today in the Dallas.

COSTELLO: Oh, it makes me want to be in Dallas, Reynolds Wolf.

(LAUGHTER)

REYNOLDS WOLF, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You need delays in the airports in Dallas, however, on the east coast, the west coast, situation is going to be a little more difficult for you at the airports. Let's head at the east coast first and check out the maps from New York to Cleveland to Boston, the wind and low clouds may cause a few delays.

Meanwhile, out to the west, we go to San Francisco and in Los Angeles, the low clouds and marine layer could give you delays just under an hour. Hey, and speaking of the west coast, take a look at this video that was just shot off the coast of California. You have a kayaker. You also have the largest animal on the planet, a blue whale. This is a blue whale. Not a gray whale that we often see along the west coast of California.

This blue whale interacting with the kayaker. The kayaker not only get close and the kayak gets even closer. It goes overboard and hops in and starts swimming with this thing. Just incredible sight to see. Hey, some other incredible sight to see. Some of the temperatures, we're going to be dealing with this morning. Thanks in part of this area with little pressure lifting up and moving more to the northeast.

It's going to allow a lot of cold air to spill down into parts of say the Midwest. We can expect in terms of your temperatures, highs today. Chicago 57, 66 in Memphis, 63 in Atlanta, 63 in Washington, 57 in New York, 71 for your high in Denver and 72 in San Francisco. That's what we can expect today.

Looking ahead for the rest of the season, we've got a big forecast to wrap things up. Your temperature outlook from NOAA from December through February, they expect to be cooler than normal in parts of the northern plains back into portions of the Great Lakes, the west coast, and warmer and still also very dry for Texas where the drought continues. That's the latest. Back to you in New York.

ROMANS: All right. Thanks, Reynolds.

COSTELLO: Thanks, Reynolds.

WOLF: You bet. ROMANS: Up next, who are the hottest young stars in business? You know, Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg. He has to be up there, right? But who else? The top 40 under age 40, next. It's 19 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: Welcome back. It's 22 minutes after the hour. Watching your money this morning.

General Electric, the company that paid virtually no federal income taxes last year is reporting its profits. Third quarter profits soared 57 percent. The gains fueled by a boost in energy infrastructure for the company.

The stock, though, is down about one percent in premarket trading. Right now, markets are poised to open higher, but there are fresh concerns this morning about EU leaders coming to an agreement about the region's bailout funds. This after the formal announcement about the terms of the fund was pushed back to next week.

Wells Fargo says a computer glitch caused some of its customers to receive another person's bank statement in the mail. WSTV in Orlando reporting the problems affect at least 4,000 people who opened their accounts in South Carolina or Florida. Wells Fargo says it will provide one year's worth of free I.D. protection to anyone affected.

Times they are changing at the girl scouts. The organization creating new badges that girls can earn. Among them, a badge for good credit, financing my future, and money manager. It's financial literacy getting some, wow, getting some attention at the girl scouts.

They're the business stars to watch. "Fortune" is out with their top 40 under 40. At number one, Mark Zuckerberg, CEO and founder of Facebook. Oh, yes. He's got 13 years before he's 40. He's just 27 years old.

Thirty-eight-year-old Larry Page from Google came at number two, 37-year-old Greg Gensen round out the top three. He's co-CEO of Bridgewater Associates, the world's largest hedge funds. The first woman on the list comes in at number 20. It's Marissa Mayer, VP of technology at Google.

Still ahead, donations are pouring into the Occupy Wall Street movement. In fact, they've raised $300,000, so far. So, how are the protesters managing all that money without investing it or putting it into the very banks that they're protesting against? We're asking occupies money man next.

AMERICAN MORNING back right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Good Morning, New York. The leaves are beginning to change in Central Park. We have to go leaf --

ROMANS: Every time you say that, I feel creepy when you --

COSTELLO: I know it sounds perverted. A lot of people say leaf peeping across the country. Come on. I've read (ph) about this.

ROMANS: Yes, you are. It's going to be like 57, I think, later. And it's day 35 of the Occupy Wall Street protest. You're looking at a live picture of Zuccotti Park where thousands of people remain camped out in New York.

Police and the locals, though, local New Yorkers a little on edge at a heated community board meeting last night. Residents near the park complained of noise and safety issues. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people are unhappy. You're not happy. We're not happy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should be able to walk to work and not have somebody dumping urine in a bucket next to us. We should be able to walk to work and not have somebody yell at us or get yelled at.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't know when your job will end. So, we're here standing up together for you. For each other.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're worried about your apartment. I pay a lot of rent. There's a lot of Black and Brown people who can't even have an apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People have the right to petition their government and to protest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My neighbors next door at 114 liberty, it is the drumming, and you've got to respect that. People have to be able to live in their homes peaceably.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If my daughter was drumming in my house for 14 hours, I'd murder her.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, if you thought that this was, you know, going to be really quiet for your kids, you're in the wrong place.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to fight for what is best for this country even if that means that one neighborhood in the country may not like it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: Some of the fixes include limiting the use of drums and chanting to only two hours a day in the middle of the day. And this resolution will go to a vote next Tuesday.

COSTELLO: Can you imagine the drumming -- the drumming, it would get on your nerves. And then, they sing and they play -- OK. Good luck to you all out there.

The protests have raised, by the way, $300,000, so far. So, what are they doing with all that cash? For obvious reasons, investing it is out of the question. CNNMoney's Poppy Harlow caught up with occupy's money man.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: I think one of the most interesting things about Occupy Wall Street is the money. Where is the money coming from? They have raised about $300,000. Who's funding them? How are they spending the money? Where is it going? How are they not using the big banks?

Does everyone know you're around here as the money man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people do.

HARLOW: You call yourself chief financial officer or something else?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, there is no chief.

HARLOW: What are things like these days?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's pretty crazy. I mean, this is really like doing an office job in a mosh pit.

HARLOW: So, right here by the food is where you're going to find one of the donation boxes. It's a little gray box. I just saw someone stick some cash in there. What is really interesting, these are all over the park. And what Occupy Wall Street tells me is they have got to the point where they're getting thousands of dollars of cash donations here in the park every single day.

DUTRO: It's comes from all 50 states. The average donation is a bit over $47.

HARLOW: How do you make the decisions on what to spend the money on? Is this a democratic vote or how does it work?

DUTRO: We have our general assembly.

HARLOW: That's made up of how many people?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I voted yes for us to get a storage facility. I voted on spending the money to get it. I voted for the U-Haul for us to go back and forth without packages.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as I'm concerned they're doing a good job of providing us with what we really need.

DUTRO: I had a tattoo shop for many years and helped run a software development company. I went back to school to NYU and basically my concentration is finance.

HARLOW: In terms of where the money is processed, it's donated to Occupy Wall Street, what we found out a lot is processed through a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit. In terms of fundraising and in terms of how you get your money and spend your money, what differentiates you from a big corporation?

DUTRO: First of all, we're people for the people. And we're not trying to make a buck here. We're trying to feed people. We're trying to get them some medical attention when they need it. We're trying to clothe the people that come down here. We're not trying to be greedy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They go to great length to be as transparent as possible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peace.

CROWD: Peace.

DUTRO: My grandparents were in the civil rights movement and my parents were in the anti-war movement. It's my turn now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Poppy Harlow reporting. I went down there last Saturday to look at the protesters. And the food line was there. The food looks pretty good. And I saw that donation box down there and it was full, frankly.

ROMANS: Yes. And I was asking people, they're talking about how you can try to change the system, change corporate America and change the banks. And their point is they don't want to work within the system to change the system. They want to make a new one, their own system. It sounds exactly what they're trying to do with the general assembly and everything.

COSTELLO: And other people say what is wrong with just expressing your frustration? And a lot of people are frustrated in this country right now. So I don't know, food for thought.

Top stories this morning. Frank discussions under way in Islamabad where Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is with Pakistani officials. Clinton stressed that a strong Pakistan is critical to stability in the Middle East. She also pressured Pakistan to step up efforts to target terrorists along the Afghan border.

ROMANS: A new day in Libya. Libyans still cheering the death of former dictator Moammar Gadhafi. Libya's new government saying he was killed in the crossfire as they finally took his hometown of Sirte. NATO saying an airstrike hit his fleeing convoy minutes before he was captured. Liberation will be officially announced tomorrow. COSTELLO: Now that Gadhafi is gone, yes, the people of Libya are dancing in the streets. It's the first taste they had of freedom in over 40 years. But when the celebrations died down, there is work to be done. Building a democracy from the ruins of a violent dictatorship will be challenging, to say the least. Earlier on AMERICAN MORNING Senator John McCain weighed in on the role America should play moving forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: First thing we need to do is help them when they're wounded. They have 30,000 wounded. They do not have the capability to treat these people. I'd love to see some of these Libyans flown to our army hospital in Germany. We could send the hospital ship in to Tripoli and into the harbor of Tripoli and treat some of these wounded.

Second thing, obviously, I mentioned the militias. The third are these arms that are spread all over the place, all kinds of weapons and we have to get those under control. And then we need to go in and help them with the building blocks of democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: All right, let's bring in Jamie Rubin. He's the former U.S. assistant secretary of state and now serves as an adviser to New York Governor Andrew Cuomo on international affairs and you were with me yesterday as this news was unfolding. Now the question is trusting the NC and how they say the end came to Moammar Gadhafi and trusting them they will put it together and move forward here.

Let me start with how he died. To you, the difference of whether it was a drone strike or whether it was caught in the crossfire or whether he was executed by somebody in the crowd, what is the importance of that?

JAMES RUBIN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: I think there will be some in the human rights community, perhaps some who don't like the idea of the NATO and the United States supporting the Libyan movement there who will try to focus on the way he died, whether it was a young man who got carried away in the course of a gun fight or after or in all the emotion that this man generates.

When you think about the emotion generated by a dictator like this, I don't think anyone in our country can understand the hate that these people feel for him the way he dominated their lives and the way he and his family ruled them like slaves. And so that level of hatred might have generated some young soldier to, let's say, finish him off after he was wounded in a gunfight.

COSTELLO: Congressman Ruppersberger told me that, you know, it's against international law to execute a leader of a country. That leader should be brought to justice somehow. If he's killed in the crossfire, fine, but execution is another matter.

RUBIN: If Libya had a formal army and a system government in which the army was read the rules of war, and those rules of war were inculcated into the armed services the way they are in our country or in the west or in many other countries around the world, I think you'd have the grounds, if this were the case, to raise the question of whether he was executed.

But I don't think the international community or anyone serious about bringing Libya forward is going to spend the time and the energy to do the kind of investigation you would do if Libya was a proper government and had a proper armed services, had the rules of war and the Geneva conventions read to them.

COSTELLO: That's just the thing. The National Transitional Council said all along it would prefer to bring Moammar Ggadhafi to justice, so he can get a fair trial in Libya and Libya could show the world it could handle democracy. But that didn't happen because the crowd out there, it certainly wasn't an orderly crowd. It didn't appear there was anybody directing things.

RUBIN: We don't know exactly what happened. We have pretty good surmise from these videos, from the accounts in the newspapers that there was a firefight in which he was severely wounded, probably would have died anyway. Whether he was, quote, "finished off" by some individual, I'm trying to give you an American audience, a perception of what it must be like to live under the boot of Moammar Gadhafi. It's not a western society. It's not a western government. This man and his family ruined the lives of millions and millions of Libyans.

So I'm imaging he's wounded. They're all angry and they're hitting him with their shoes as a sign of insult. Whatever it is they're doing to bring out their anger. Yes, it's possible he got shot. I hope the international community spends more time trying to help Libya grow and develop the rule of law than wasting time investigating this incident.

COSTELLO: Let's talk about, you talk about that celebration on the neck and the throats of these people. We've been seeing the celebrations in the streets. They're also celebrating online and lots of people are sending messages to Yemen and Sryia. And they're saying, some of these I'm going to quote for you, "Ben Ali escaped, Mubarak is in jail, Gadhafi was killed. Which fate do you prefer, Ali Abdullah Saleh? You can consult with Bashar." Another one is "Bashar al Assad, how do you feel today?"

Online around the world people taking this Arab spring and turning it into an Arab fall and saying there must be fear among other dictators and their end will come. Is it as simple as that?

RUBIN: Unfortunately not. Look, the Arab spring has been a wonderful development for the world where this part of the world is getting its first feel for people getting the power of government and democratic values. But they are a long way from it.

You had Saddam Hussein die after a trial and when Iraq became democratic. You had Mubarak in court, wheeled into court, and now you have Gadhafi dying in the desert of Libya. So, dictators, true dictators, yes, they are going to see this and they are going to know there's no escape.

And I think one of the problems with that and we all talked about this in the middle of the Libya crisis is that the dictators, therefore, feel there's no choice but to fight to the end. And so the perhaps 20 years ago, 50 years ago when dictators could get exile in the French Riviera or a Caribbean island or someplace like that, it might have been easier to negotiate the fall of some of these governments.

So these are complicated issues. Syria is much, much more complicated. We don't have the international support. Nor is the situation as clean as it was. Libya was easy. It was a desert. You had a rebel army asking for air power from the United States. And you had the Arab league, the Arab governments asking us for air power.

And let's be honest, we almost didn't give it to them. We really didn't want to. There was a lot of reluctance in this country. Britain and France were much more enthusiastic. And then President Obama made an important decision to join the British and French, and we were able to bring this successful revolution to an end. But, even when it was easy, relatively, we didn't really want to do it. So I don't see the rest of the world intervening in a serious way in Syria or Yemen, which are much more complicated.

ROMANS: They sure are. Jamie Rubin, thanks for joining us, again.

RUBIN: Nice to see you both.

COSTELLO: Up next, another story that caught the nation's attention, the escape and killing of more than 50 exotic animals in Ohio, three leopards, two monkeys, a grizzly bear. What happened to them? And what drives people to seek out and own exotic animals as pets anyway? It's 40 minutes past.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It is 43 minutes past the hour. Welcome back.

Police in Ohio aren't sure, but they say they think all 56 animals are accounted for after they were set free from an Ohio farm earlier this week. The one that's missing is that monkey, still at large. They think the monkey might have been eaten by one of the escaped cats, though an active search has been called off. But there is a happy ending for six other animals. Three leopards, a grizzly bear, and two monkeys survived and were captured and are now recovering at the Columbus Zoo, and we're told they're doing very well.

ROMANS: Meantime, the tragedy in Ohio raises big questions about wild animal laws. Many are calling for tougher restrictions on ownership. CNN visited Tiger Ridge Exotics, a private game reserve in northwest Ohio. Jason Carroll finds out what may be in store for exotic animal owners.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's feeding time at Tiger Ridge Exotics, a private game reserve just outside Toledo, Ohio. Leo the lion is just one of about a dozen big cats, two grizzlies and two wolves, getting lunch from owner Kenny Hetrick.

(on camera): Do you ever get nervous when you're -- when you're feeding the animals?

KENNY HETRICK, OWNER, TIGER RIDGE EXOTICS: No.

CARROLL: You never get nervous? You ever had a close call?

HETRICK: Every day.

CARROLL (voice-over): Hetrick says he has been keeping exotic animals without any violations for more than three decades.

HETRICK: I just love to do it. It's just something I like to do. It's just -- I've done it so long, it's just like it's part of me.

CARROLL: Hetrick knew Terry Thompson the man who owned and released 56 wild animals from his farm. Then took his own life. The Sheriff's deputy say 49 of them had to be killed. Hetrick says he doesn't know why Thompson snapped, but he worries about what the repercussions might be.

HETRICK: One bad apple ruins the whole barrel. You know you've heard that before that's -- that's just about what we -- what we got going on here in Ohio.

CARROLL: Hetrick says accidents involving exotic animals are rare. That may be true, but when they do happen, the results can be both tragic and violent.

In 2009, a pet chimpanzee attacks a woman in Connecticut. The 911 call from her friend was chilling.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's dead. He ripped her apart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He ripped what apart, her face?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything. Please hurry; please, please, hurry. Oh, my God.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CARROLL: In 2005, a 911 operator responds after a man is attacked by two chimps at a private sanctuary in California.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me his injuries and repeat them. They need to know. They tore out his eye. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They tore out his eye?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CARROLL: And in 2003 a man is injured in New York by Ming the tiger. He had kept it as a pet in his apartment in Harlem.

No people were hurt after Thompson released his animals in Zanesville, Ohio, but given the history of exotic animal attacks, the potential was there. The story drawing attention to laws on keeping wild animals.

Ohio is one of eight states with the least restrictive laws regarding owning exotic animals. The few requirements to owning these types of animals in Ohio include need for entry permit into the state and certificate of veterinary inspection. It's illegal to own exotic animals in 21 states. The sheriffs who had to put down Thompson's escaped animals say the law here should be changed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me and the other deputies were forced into doing it in my opinion, due to the lax laws in the state of Ohio in reference to exotic animals.

CARROLL: The state's governor has promised tougher legislation. Kenny Hetrick hopes those who do care for their animals are not punished in the process.

HETRICK: They got this blown way out of proportion on Ohio it's nothing but a Wild West. That's all there's not a word of truth in that.

CARROLL: Jason Carroll, CNN, Toledo, Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: It must be so expensive to feed all those people. I mean you know people who have a couple of dogs and its $75 -- I don't know, I mean $75 a month for -- for dog food. And you think about huge animals that eat all of that meat.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: I know and veterinary care to boot. It's just -- and I understand this Terry Thompson was thousands and thousands of dollars in debt.

ROMANS: Yes.

COSTELLO: And maybe that contributed to it as well as --

ROMANS: He did. All right. It's 47 minutes past the hour.

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COSTELLO: It is 49 minutes past the hour. Here are your "Morning Headlines". The Libyans are still cheering the death of former dictator Moammar Gadhafi. The new government is saying liberation will be officially announced tomorrow.

Right now another Gadhafi on the run, his most wanted son being hunted down by revolutionary fighters. A senior member of Libya's National Transitional Council told me Saif Islam is still alive. They know where he is and he'll be captured very soon.

Markets open in just about 45 minutes and right now they're on track to open higher. The Dow, Nasdaq and the S&P 500 futures up this morning on hopes Europe is getting a better handle on its debt crisis.

The biographer for the late Steve Jobs says the Apple CEO regretted not undergoing early and potentially life-saving surgery for his pancreatic cancer; instead, Jobs chose to try alternative therapies. He thought the operation was quote, "too invasive."

NBA talks breaking down and things are getting ugly. The players accusing the league of lying after three days at the table.

The Texas Rangers pulling even in the World Series. They beat the St. Louis Cardinals last night with a two-run rally in the ninth. That was a sacrifice fly there. The series now heads to Arlington for game three.

And the NFL's in London this weekend, the Chicago Bears and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers battle it out in Wembley Stadium on Sunday. The league is still talking about getting a franchise or even a -- even a Super Bowl to the Brits. Now, that would be interesting.

That's the news you need to start your day, AMERICAN MORNING after a break.

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COSTELLO: Oh I hear that music and good times come rushing back in my brain.

Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.

Their images are everywhere. Four musicians with iconic painted faces have created one of the most enduring and successful rock bands ever.

ROMANS: Oh yes rock band and a business empire. It's the world of Kiss. A rock empire that still tours after first hitting the stage 30 years ago.

CNN Money Poppy Harlow got an exclusive look at the band and the brand.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, rock USA. You wanted the best. You got the best. The hottest band in the world. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And now, the fun begins.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kiss.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-eight years ago we put together the band that we never saw on stage, but wanted to. And we did it by the seat of our pants. We were not marketing gurus. We didn't know what a brand meant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fundamentals of how Kiss is run are the fundamentals that make for a successful business.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM (voice-over): Look at these heels. Look at these heels.

What man gets to put red lipstick on nightly? How many people can say that they have done Gene Simmons makeup?

GENE SIMMONS, LEAD SINGER, KISS: I would say none.

HARLOW: Is this all your hair? Where did all that hair come from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a good question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I carried my lunch in here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch this.

HARLOW: Wow.

SIMMONS: I have no problem wearing a suit here and getting up on stage and looking like your mom's worst nightmare. And I know your mom, so, cut it out.

We literally invented the idea of licensing and merchandising. Come on in, you'll see what I mean.

HARLOW: This is what we heard about, the Kiss (INAUDIBLE). Oh, my goodness.

SIMMONS: We have Kiss lotteries, scratch but you don't sniff. Kiss Mr. Potato heads. Kiss boots; you know, you kind of go like that. One forward and then put all your weight forward.

HARLOW: Is that good?

SIMMONS: That's really good.

HARLOW: Am I rocking.

SIMMONS: Not so much, but pretty good.

HARLOW: I heard there is a Kiss coffin. Is that true?

SIMMONS: It is true. Would you like to crawl in it? Look at the quality. They also double as coolers.

HARLOW: What's your favorite piece of merchandise in this entire place?

SIMMONS: My favorite piece of merchandise is me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have created four iconic images known around the world. Have we always been on top? No. But we've always stuck to what felt right.

SIMMONS: For 38 years we defied the odds, we buried all the critics in our backyard and we are mythic gods who actually do walk the face of the planet. We are rock gods.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Well, it was certainly an experience. Kiss Inc. is a rare look inside the world of Kiss, the band, and as you said, Christine, the brand. It's part of CNN Present's an hour 8:00 p.m. this Sunday, 8:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

We've got a lot more on CNNMoney.com right now; print article and a big inside look at sort of behind the scenes with Kiss. Never been on an assignment like that in my life.

ROMANS: He's been marketing before people knew and bands knew how to market.

HARLOW: Yes, yes.

ROMANS: I mean he really is a machine. I once called him a musician and he said, Christine, I'm an entertainer.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Absolutely he's -- he's -- I think more of a businessman than a musician.

ROMANS: Totally. Totally.

HARLOW: What -- what fascinates me is that Gene Simmons sits there in the studio and he's on eBay and he's on all these sites looking for bootleggers. And as the band says, no one better to watch your house than you. They don't rely on business managers. They're all about protecting their brand, the music, the money, everything and look how hugely successful they have been.

COSTELLO: Yes and it's good they do it themselves. The other great thing about them is because they wear all of that makeup, you could really get totally lost in the audience.

HARLOW: Absolutely.

COSTELLO: Because you don't realize how old they've become.

ROMANS: Not at all.

COSTELLO: I went to see Bryan Sperry from rock music and I love him but I wanted him to look like he did all those years ago --

HARLOW: Right and they still do.

COSTELLO: And he sounds great and everything, but with Kiss, you can like totally immerse yourself in your youthful past.

HARLOW: And this is the business plan. Right? What they told me is that they want Kiss to live beyond them. So, eventually, they will pass on those actually trademarked faces to other people. It's going to go on and on so our kids and our kids' kids are going to all enjoy Kiss.

ROMANS: I know. Gene Simmons -- G stands for genius. That guy is a business genius.

COSTELLO: To the core

ROMANS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Thank you, Poppy, we enjoyed that.

HARLOW: You got it.

ROMANS: Fifty-eight minutes after the hour.

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ROMANS: Before we leave you this morning we want to give a quick shout-out to our own Erin Burnett. She was named one of "Fortune" magazine's Top 40 under 40. They're the business stars to watch. Erin came in at number 33. This is her third year on the list. "Fortune" magazine, of course, owned by CNN's parent company, Time Warner.

And Mark Zuckerberg was number one that list -- the Facebook founder. He's 27, he's got a long time before he's going to be out of the 40 under 40 category.

COSTELLO: Kyra Phillips, you are number one on my list.