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Nancy Grace
Search for Missing 10-Month-Old Focuses on Mystery Man in Video
Aired October 24, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight out of America`s heartland in the search for 10-month-old baby Lisa, reported missing from her own crib in the dead of night, the baby`s father working the night shift, the mother the last person to see baby Lisa alive.
Bombshell developments. By the minute, as we learn just how investigators were able to get a search warrant resulting in that 17-hour raid at baby Lisa`s home, it`s revealed cadaver dogs pick up the scent of a dead body in the parents` room on the floor right next to the bed. This as we obtain surveillance video of a mystery man coming out of the woods near a gas station less than two miles from baby Lisa`s home. The sighting is at about 2:15 AM the very night the 10-month-old vanishes.
Tonight, where is baby Lisa?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER: Our two other boys are waiting for her! Please!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man was walking up this hill. People come from time to time. There`s graffiti here. You can see this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was over here at this window.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby`s mother, Deborah Bradley, was the last person to see Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are we focusing on Debbie?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just kind of looking down in the bushes, and the next thing you know, we seen a gentleman walking up the street carrying a baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) kind of satanic symbol, a pentagram, here KCK (ph), some profanity...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then he had the baby in his arms and he had the baby`s head kind of like this. So we could kind of seen the baby`s arm and then the leg was down here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... freak for life, RIP...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Admits she was drinking the night Lisa vanished and possibly even blacked out.
BRADLEY: Just somewhere safe where she can come home! Please!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. New developments in the search for 10-month-old baby Lisa, reported missing from her own crib.
Straight out to CNN correspondent Sandra Endo, live at the crime scene in Kansas City, Missouri. Sandra, what is the very latest from the crime scene?
SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jane, I can tell you that right now, there are some individuals in front of the home. They have been holding vigils every night here. But the big one was Sunday, and that is when we saw an emotional Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin return to this home where the baby disappeared from, and that`s when we saw them break down in tears after the community, the neighborhood came together to pray for baby Lisa`s return.
Now, also in the investigation, new details about this surveillance video, as you`ve been talking about, showing an unidentified person walking at 2:15 in the morning just a mile-and-a-half from this home. And it could be a possible link to witness testimony saying that some people claim they saw a man walking in the dark, carrying a baby the night of baby Lisa`s disappearance -- Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`ve got various reports claiming that some mystery man was walking around, holding a baby in his arms.
I want to go straight out to an exclusive interview that we have tonight with -- she`s only going by the name Lisa, and she claims that she saw a man with a baby resembling this precious, beautiful missing child the very night that the child disappeared.
Lisa, thank you so much for joining us. What did you see, and exactly what time did you see it?
LISA, WITNESS (via telephone): It was 12:15 that morning, and my husband was leaving for work. And normally, he`ll just get in the car and just take off to go to work. So it kind of caught my eye that he was standing out there and just kind of looking at something. Next thing you know, we did see a gentleman appear walking up the street, kind of in the middle of the street, and carrying an infant or a baby.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here`s my question. If I were with a baby that I shouldn`t have, which I never hope to be in that situation, obviously, but just from a sheer human standpoint, you`d think that somebody doing something wrong would hide, not walk down the street and just have the baby in his arms, like, Oh, I`m just walking down the street with a baby.
It`s obviously wrong because it was something like 45 degrees out that night and he`s walking with a baby that does not have any clothes on except for a diaper. So right there, he`s doing something wrong.
Lisa, did he seem like he was hiding at all or that he was being in any way defensive?
LISA: No. The gentleman we saw, he wasn`t doing anything suspicious. He just was kind of walking at a normal pace. He wasn`t, like, looking around or anything. He kind of just was looking straight ahead and just kept walking. But he wasn`t acting like he was hiding anything or anything of that sort.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did he seem drunk?
LISA: No, not really.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was there anything about him that seemed suspicious? I mean, it`s obviously suspicious if it`s 45 degrees, it`s nighttime, and you`re walking around with a baby who doesn`t have clothes. Do you think that -- and I hesitate to ask this question because we don`t want this to be the outcome, but did the baby look like the child might possibly be deceased?
LISA: We really couldn`t tell. I was standing inside my home and my husband was standing out by the vehicle. My husband said he didn`t hear any noises, like, coming from the baby or anything like that. But you know, we really are not for sure about that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, stand by, Lisa. Thank you for sharing what you`ve seen. It`s important to have witnesses.
I want to go to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline. Lay out for us, the timeline. Now we have various witnesses seeing a man with a baby and we have this surveillance video at the gas station. Give us the timeline. Put it together for us.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Well, I`m actually going to start about 5:00 o`clock. Deborah was spotted in a grocery store with her brother. That`s where she bought the box of wine. She goes home. According to her story, at about 6:40 PM, she put baby Lisa down to bed.
Now, her story changed a little bit. She said at one point, about 10:30 PM she checked on the baby, but she`s since changed that story. So her friend who was there drinking the wine with her leaves the house, goes home across the street, notices from her own home that Deborah turns out the lights in her home. Deborah goes to sleep.
Her husband comes home from his very first overnight shift at work about 3:50 AM, notices the house is in disarray, the lights are on, the door is open, the screen is pushed in, the baby is missing. He calls 911.
Back it up just a little while. This neighbor, Lisa, at about 12:15 AM had seen the baby and the -- the man with the baby. The following day, they call the police. So there`s already one sighting of a man with a baby.
Another sighting was at about 2:00 AM at a gas station. There`s a man who said that he saw a man carrying a baby on the side of the freeway near a ramp to the interstate. And he said this is very unusual. It`s the middle of the night. The baby doesn`t really have any clothes on. He said he wanted to stop and ask them if they needed a ride, but he was on a motorcycle. Took about a week to report this to the police.
These are multiple sightings of something -- of the baby, possibly, who was missing this whole time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And now we have some breaking news just in, which I find pretty extraordinary, out of Kansas City, Missouri, where this is all going down, KCTV reporting that a reporter spoke to Deborah Bradley, the mother, and asked her why they would not talk to local reporters. And Deborah replied, according to this news outlet, quote, "because we are grieving," end quote. "Because we are grieving," end quote.
Woodrow Tripp, former police commander, polygraph expert, what do you make of that comment?
WOODROW TRIPP, FMR. POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: That`s very strange because she`s talking now in the past tense of a human being. That`s very concerning when someone starts to refer in the past tense of a person, "we`re grieving," where they are convinced that the child is no longer here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think it could have been a slip, as they say, a Freudian slip, or just a slip?
TRIPP: I don`t know, Jane. That`s -- you know, as we look at this and as -- you know, as an investigator, you know, we analyze these things, you know, what people say, the body language, the whole Freudian slips. "We`re grieving," certainly, it could be, based upon, you know, her background, education, to her, that would be the appropriate thing to say. But it would certainly be something that would raise our attention.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. There she is with her husband and they`re wearing T-shirts that say "Kidnapped," the T-shirts say "Kidnapped." But presumably, Ellyn Gamberg, psychotherapist -- and we certainly hope that the child is found alive. There -- we don`t have any independent confirmation that the child is deceased.
What do you make of the mother telling this reporter she`s not going to talk to local reporters "because we are grieving"?
ELLYN GAMBERG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I think, Jane, that what she is grieving right now could be that she`s going through this entire process. She`s grieving the loss, the inquisition. She`s grieving the entire process. It doesn`t necessarily mean the loss of the baby, she`s grieving that she has to go through this as part it, as well. Very possibly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I will say that quite often, when somebody is missing, we have to caution people not to refer to them in the past tense. There is that sort of tendency to do that just almost more of a syntax mistake than anybody assuming that the person is deceased. So we certainly don`t want to draw conclusions from it, but it is quite interesting that she used that terminology.
OK, out to the phone lines. This case -- boy, the phone calls are adding up. They`re piling up. We`re going start with the first one, Marie, Texas. Your question or thought, Marie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a few questions, but they`ve answered some of them. It was her brother that was with her at the store. And was it a male or female that came over and drank with her? Could it be her brother that was carrying the baby later that night?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m going to put that one out to Sandra Endo. What do you know? Does he have an alibi?
ENDO: Well, what we know right now, Jane, in terms of the investigation, authorities don`t want to really confirm a lot of the minutiae, those details that so many of us are eager to know. But what we know is that Deborah Bradley did go to the grocery store. Her brother drove her that night. And from all accounts, he just dropped her off here after getting groceries. That`s when she went back inside the house. And as we know the timeline, she told investigators that`s when she put the baby to bed and she went out to drink.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We have more on that because he`s wearing a dark T-shirt, not a light T-shirt. So we`ll analyze that in a second.
Meantime, it`s season 13 of "Dancing With the Stars" and our very own Nancy Grace is dancing for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. It is Broadway week, and tonight Nancy is doing the foxtrot. So be sure to vote. You can vote multiple times for Nancy and her amazing dancing partner, Tristan MacManus. Everybody here at the NANCY GRACE show says, Good luck, Nancy. You can win this thing! We know you can.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one really knows what baby Lisa`s parents have gone through.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think in every way, they`ve acted like innocent people.
BRADLEY: Please, please, please call the tips hotline if you know where she`s at!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This video taken from a gas station near the home where baby Lisa was last seen shows an unidentified person walking along the road around 2:15 AM October 4th. Lisa was reported missing just hours later.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We seen a gentleman walking up the street, carrying a baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was wearing, like, a dark-colored pants and what we believe was a T-shirt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) believes police remain stuck on a theory that Deborah Bradley had something to do with her daughter`s disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had the baby in his arms, and he had the baby`s head kind of like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stranger abductions are rare.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gas station owner say it`s very unusual to see somebody walking around the street at that hour.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Strangers do take children, and I think a stranger did it here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Where is baby Lisa? We now have several witnesses who are saying they saw a mystery man walking around with a baby in the dead of night, the very night this precious child disappeared.
Now, the farthest sighting was about three miles away from the home, so I want to go out to Tracy Sargent, canine search, rescue and recovery specialist. What do authorities do with that information? Because this area, the last sighting at 4:00 AM, is a very remote area. There`s just a bunch of intersection, sort of a freeway. What do they do with that?
TRACY SARGENT, CANINE SEARCH, RESCUE & RECOVERY SPECIALIST: Yes. In this particular case, dogs are an ideal resource to check because you`ve got thick wooded areas, a large area. Dogs can check that area and clear it much more effectively than what people can.
Also they can -- they`re scent dogs, so they can determine if the scent of Lisa or possibly this gentleman is in the area. And dogs can determine if there`s been any people in the area and even specific people in the area. They can do that much more quickly and much more effectively and efficiently than people can.
So the fact that, one, is there something in that area that we`re looking for, the dogs willow locate for us? And secondly, they can clear these areas and say what we`re looking for is not in this area. They can eliminate it and move on to an area that they can, hopefully, find what they`re looking for.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, you`re looking at exclusive footage from ABC`s "Good Morning America" of the Bradley home, the home -- the Irwin home -- it`s Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, the two of them live together at this home. And a cadaver dog hit right around there in the bedroom of the mother of the missing child, OK? And she had more than five glasses of wine that night and also reportedly had some anti-anxiety meds. She doesn`t remember what the heck happened, according to her. That`s what she`s saying, anyway. And she says she passed out and went to sleep.
And now the cadaver dog has hit, according to cops, right there, where you`re looking. But here`s what I find very odd, Paul Batista, defense attorney. They did not cut out the carpet there. As you can see, it does not appear that authorities cut out the carpet at the very location where the cadaver dog hit. You`d think that`d be the first thing that they would do.
Oh, by the way, there`s the bottle of wine, the box that she -- I say bottle of wine, but it`s actually technically a box of wine that she guzzled that night.
Paul Batista, why do you think they didn`t cut out that carpet?
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they may not have any confidence in the dog. Cadaver dogs, Jane, are notoriously inaccurate. And it may well be, if they didn`t cut out that section of the carpet, that they -- that they doubt the authenticity of the hit.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And now Midwin Charles, defense attorney, what I wonder is -- well, OK, the cadaver dog hits on the bedroom where the mother says she`s passed out, but there is no cadaver dog hit on a vehicle because quite often, that`s usually what`s found in pairs, a cadaver dog hit on the home and then in a vehicle belonging to whoever owns the home.
But in this case, you have a mystery man walking around with a baby in the dead of night. Could this be a conspiracy? Could several people potentially be involved in this case?
MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it`s possible, Jane. I mean, I haven`t seen any evidence that suggests that. But going back to your question about the cadaver dogs. Let`s remember evidence that cadaver dogs pick up, or hits or scents, could have been there for years. You know, they have this ability to pick up this scent that has been there for years.
But it doesn`t mean much if there is nothing else to corroborate that scent, if there`s no other evidence found to indicate that it means anything. So I don`t know if there`s a conspiracy going on here. There`s been no evidence of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The investigation is focused on finding that baby. Time is so crucial here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trying to find baby Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t take anyone off the table as a possible suspect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now that she has a lawyer, she can tell her full story. She can say what she was scared to say in the beginning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s concerning that she has no remorse or thinking that she`s done something wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In this case, you use extraordinary circumstances because of the fact that we`re talking about a baby here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know people want to completely villainize this woman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she also has no remorse over the fact that she clearly is telling a different story now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because she did things that we think are irresponsible, maybe immoral.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Courts have said we can use lying, trickery when it comes to interviewing suspects.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Where is this adorable child, who disappeared when she was 10 months old? The parents are not considered suspects. I want to stress that. They are not considered persons of interest. The cops say they have no suspects or persons of interest.
But the mother did make some breaking news this evening when a local reporter asked her why they`re not talking to reporters and she said, reportedly, quote, "because we are grieving," end quote, leading to the question, why is she grieving? There`s no independent confirmation that her precious daughter is dead. And we, of course, hope to find the child alive.
I want to go to the phone lines. Hope, Texas. Your question or thought, Hope.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I was wondering if they questioned her parents or his parents because, usually, when something is wrong, the people will go to the parents and confide in them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s an excellent question. Alexis Tereszcuk, Radaronline, any thoughts of where the extended family of this child is?
TERESZCUK: The extended family is all around the town. We`ve actually spoken with quite a few of their family members, who have all said adamantly Deborah would never hurt baby Lisa. They`ve all just said that she`s a wonderful mother. They never saw her do anything that would hurt her child, and they`re 100 percent supportive of her.
I believe that a lot of the family have spoken with law enforcement, to answer the question. But I think that they are all saying the same thing, that they are totally supportive of Deborah and they say that she loved baby Lisa -- or loves baby Lisa -- and wouldn`t hurt her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, she called her "pumpkin pie," and even the night that the child disappeared, she was getting baby wipes and she was getting baby food. So you would certainly ask, why would somebody who was intent on harming a child buy food and those kinds of items for the child. It doesn`t make sense.
Sheila, Illinois, a quick question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, I was wondering, what does her estranged husband have to say about all this? Who`s paying her attorney? And could she have fallen off the bed?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are going to go through that house with a fine-toothed comb. They are looking for any evidence that someone forcibly entered that house. They are looking for hair and fiber evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Law enforcement officials are doing due diligence in this case. It`s a very sensitive matter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s absolutely unbelievable because what they`re trying to do is establish the timeline so that they can launch a viable investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Scent of a deceased human.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where cadaver dogs are positive hit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or the smell of death.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In the parents` bedroom, near the bed.
JEREMY IRWIN, FATHER OF MISSING 10-MONTH-OLD LISA: Daughter Lisa was taken from our home.
DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER OF MISSING 10-MONTH-OLD LISA: We have to be strong for her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Hair samples, mouth swabs, hours of interviews.
JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Using x-ray equipment that can be used to look inside walls, through floor boards.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A garden area where dirt appeared to be recently disturbed or overturned.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In the search for Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A beautiful little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep everybody out there looking for that baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keep looking until she comes home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Video taken from a gas station.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: An unidentified person --
IRWIN: Anyone that has any kind of information as to where she is or who she`s with.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Conflicting information.
BRADLEY: Please just take her somewhere safe. No questions asked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is baby Lisa?
Good evening, Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.
Cadaver dogs hitting on the bedroom floor of the mother of the missing child. Meantime these astounding reports from eyewitnesses, one of whom we have on here tonight, saying they saw a mystery man walking down the street the night this child disappeared, holding a baby who was almost naked, wearing only a diaper in 45-degree temperatures.
Now straight out to Sandra Endo, CNN correspondent, who is at the scene.
Sandra, what is the very latest?
SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT, ON THE SCENE OUTSIDE BABY LISA`S HOME, COVERING STORY: Well, I can tell you, Jane, you were talking about seeing Deborah Bradley today. We were there when she was asked by a reporter about if she was being paid, why she`s not talking to local reporters, that is when she said, we are grieving.
So we were there outside the relative`s home where she`s staying at. We heard her say those words and obviously she looked still emotional and distraught. Obviously a lot of tension surrounding that family right now.
We also spoke to the family lawyer who says that look, she is a 25- year-old mother and all of a sudden she is thrown into this whirlwind of media and this disaster in the disappearance of her baby. So clearly she is trying to come to grips and I asked her how is she coping? She says she`s just coping and taking things day-by-day.
So clearly a very traumatic occurrence here and of course around the Irwin family but we have seen them today walking to the home. They did not talk to the media --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Sandra, let me ask you this question. Let me ask you this question. So she says -- you heard hearsay that they`re not talking because, quote, "We are grieving," end quote. Did she stop herself and say, I don`t mean grieving. Did she have an awareness that that comment might be perceived of as somewhat controversial?
ENDO: No, she didn`t. She just went ahead and walked into the home. But what I can tell from her lawyer -- I asked her lawyer specifically, she has said on live TV, at network television interviews, that she was drunk the night of the baby`s disappearance and other things that just didn`t jive with investigators.
I asked the lawyers, Cindy Short, does she regret saying those comments? What do you think she`s being portrayed as? Who is Deborah Bradley? And the lawyer says look, she is a 25-year-old mother, devoted and she is honest. She is open and honest with investigators and that is why she laid out all the facts.
She said other people may not be as open and may not want to say those things. But because this is her missing baby that is why she told investigators some of the harsh realities of what took place that night.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Alexis Tereszcuk, radaronline. We had a caller who wanted to know who was paying her attorney -- actually it`s her attorneys. She`s got Joe Tacopina, she`s got this Cindy Short, they are locally, and what about this ex -- or actually it`s not an ex-husband, it`s a current husband who is estranged from her, the father of baby Lisa.
This man here lives with her. They had the child together but they are not married. So tell us about the estranged husband.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: So the estranged husband, they were married. He is actually in the military and he is serving overseas. He is the father of her son, and then the husband Jeremy has a son as well, those are the 8 and 6-year-old boys that live in the home that they have not allowed to speak with investigators in quite a while.
And then Deborah and Jeremy share baby Lisa together. She`s not divorced. And nobody has really addressed why she`s not divorced. But both she and Jeremy had referred to each other as fiancees, so they`re engaged, they`re planning to get married but right now they can`t.
As for the other question, it was whether anybody has spoken with his family, is that right? And everybody --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, who`s paying for all these attorneys.
TERESZCUK: Oh, yes. I`m sorry about that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. No, it`s OK.
TERESZCUK: It`s actually -- we don`t know who it is. It`s a wealthy benefactor. And they`re paying to the attorneys. They`ve also actually given $100,000 for the fund, for information that would result in the arrest and conviction of anybody who has anything to do with this. So they haven`t said who it is, it`s anonymous but it`s apparently a very wealthy woman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Woodrow Tripp, you were a former police commander as well as a polygraph expert. The parents say the reason they haven`t agreed to do interviews is that they haven`t been able to agree on terms.
Well, you`re not negotiating a Hollywood deal here. You`re talking to cops because they`re trying to find your daughter and save your daughter`s life. Now they say, however, that they don`t trust the detectives. That they want a new set of detectives assigned. Now the detectives say hey, we want to interview the parents separately. That could be a sticking issue.
What are your thoughts on all that?
WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: Well, when you start picking and choosing what investigator you want to talk to -- again it raises another flag.
If my daughter is missing I don`t care. I understand that there was some comment about a trust issue. I don`t exactly understand that. Because pretty much the police and law enforcement in general have been very tight lipped about this, so I`m not understanding the course that they are taking with picking and choosing unless it`s, again, another delay tactic.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to go back to the phone lines.
Nancy, Colorado, your question or thought, Nancy.
NANCY, CALLER FROM COLORADO: Yes. Actually it`s interesting that you and two of your callers have addressed part of my questions. It`s very suspicious to me as to you why she won`t let the boys be interviewed and why the cell phones were gone. So my question or theory is what if she were to go back in the house drunk, the baby is crying, she takes the baby back to bed, she`s drunk, she rolls on the baby, the baby falls on the floor and is dead at that point.
When she realizes it she involves possibly her brother and what you addressed in the very beginning of the program was the baby alive or dead in the man`s arms? It was very dark outside, everyone has said that. The man at the gas station was not seen with a baby, and there`s just -- there are a lot of things that don`t add up.
If that man carrying the baby were acting suspicious, it would draw more attention than acting nonchalant.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, first of all, those are excellent hypotheticals. We certainly don`t want to point the finger at anyone. Cops say there are no suspects. And we want to certainly presume the innocence of certainly the immediate family members.
But from a hypothetical basis, Tracy Sargent -- you`re a canine search rescue and a recovery specialist -- you would think if somebody is trying to dispose of a child, a deceased child, that they would wrap the child up at least in a towel or try to disguise or hide the child unless they are rip-roaring drunk and they don`t really know what they`re doing.
TRACY SARGENT, CANINE SEARCH RESCUE AND RECOVERY SPECIALIST: You`re absolutely right. This is very, very unusual to have -- and most people aren`t accustomed to dealing with dead people and in this case a dead child which is very traumatic. So it would make sense that somebody would wrap it up just not to be able to see it and just to get it out of their view, and then carry it away from the area that they don`t want people to find.
So just to have a baby open in your arms without any clothing, any blankets or anything to cover it up does seem a little strange but certainly not out of the norm. So it`s unusual situation. Simply because people aren`t accustomed to dealing with dead people and in this case dead children.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Paul Batista, just my hypothetical standpoint, if this individual was walking with the deceased child in the dead of night, the question is where did he go, what did he do with this precious child? And I pray that this is all an inaccurate hypothetical and this child is found safe and sound.
But we know that the lock is ticking and the probability of that happening decreases with the passage of time. So what do cops do with this information? Do they just send search teams out the last place he was spotted near that intersection about three miles from the family`s home?
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "DEATH`S WITNESS": Well, as a defense attorney I can tell you it seems to me essential that they take this new information and focus a lot of their attention on the mysterious man coming out of the woods allegedly walking with the baby. That`s where the pressure should be right now. We`re talking about parents who are obviously traumatized by the loss of this baby.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely.
It is -- on a much happier note -- season 13 of "Dancing with the Stars" and our very own Nancy Grace is dancing for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
It`s Broadway week and tonight she`s doing the foxtrot. So be sure to vote. You can vote multiple times for Nancy and her amazing dancing partner Tristan MacManus.
Everybody here at the NANCY GRACE SHOW says good luck, Nancy, you can win this thing. We know you can. You`re going to do it with our help.
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SPELLMAN: This is Lester Street where baby Lisa lived. Police have been investigating this window as a possible entry point.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This video taken from a gas station near the home where baby Lisa was last seen shows an unidentified person walking along the road around 2:15 a.m.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it was about 12:15 a.m. my husband was leaving for work. He was kind of looking down in the bushes and the next thing you know we see a gentleman walking up the street carrying a baby.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Lisa was reported missing just hours later.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The cadaver dog indicated a positive hit for the scent of a deceased human.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Baby Lisa`s mom bedroom on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was in that room some sort of human decomposition.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did it look like anything disturb in her room? I mean did anything look out of place other than her not being there?
BRADLEY: No. No.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: For an emotional prayer vigil for the missing child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep hoping for the best results.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is baby Lisa? So many bizarre and mysterious developments. This strange man seen walking down the street at around the same time that this child is reported missing, holding a baby wearing only a diaper. It`s 45 degrees, approximately, in Kansas City that night.
What is going on? Who is this man? We are all perplexed by the mystery and the phone lines lighting up. So we`re going to go to Lisa from Connecticut.
Lisa, your question or thought?
LISA, CALLER FROM CONNECTICUT: Yes. Hi, Jane. I was wondering if anybody else --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
LISA: -- was noticing that baby Lisa`s mom when you look at the previous interviews from this past weekend, it looks as though she`s had her hair cut and colored and --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
LISA: And it just doesn`t seem like something a mom of a missing baby would be doing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that is her -- I believe tonight at the vigil and she looks pretty good. I mean she looks like she`s had her hair done, you`re right. That`s very interesting which brings me to maybe -- OK. We have an exclusive -- there she is. OK. That`s what I was waiting for.
There she is right after the child disappeared. Well, she`s got her hair pulled back. And then we can show you again how she appears at the vigil and her hair appears to be done up, let`s say. Let`s put it that way. And we`ll show you that comparison video as we speak there.
Well, it could simply be that her hair was done by a stylist who maybe volunteered to try to make her feel better. We don`t want to necessarily draw any conclusions.
I want to go to our other Lisa, an exclusive interview with a woman who is in Kansas City in the same neighborhood as the home of this missing toddler.
Lisa, you claim you saw a man with the baby that night. Are you sure it was a man?
LISA, WITNESS WHO CLAIMS SHE SAW MAN WITH INFANT RESEMBLING BABY LISA: Yes, I am positive.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is correct. You have no doubts that it was a man? How can you be so sure?
LISA: Yes. Correct. Based on the lighting. When it reflected off of the gentleman`s head, there was no long hair. To us it appeared as if the gentleman had a bald head.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And now when you say -- I`m trying to glean some kind of clue from your incredible eyewitness of this man. And you`ve told the story and yet it leaves us sort of perplexed with the mystery of who is this person.
Can you describe him in more detail? Could you say, anything about his age, his height, his possible ethnicity, anything, and I usually don`t like to focus on that but I`m only focusing on trying to paint a portrait of this man.
And by the way, have cops taken your information so that they can create a sketch? Do you have any word that cops are making a sketch of this man, perhaps?
LISA: The cops did offer to make a sketch for us. However, we didn`t have clear facial features to give them. We were able to describe the man, he was very slender. He was a tall gentleman. He was probably six-foot tall, maybe 5`8" to six-feet tall. So he was a really tall gentleman and he was very, very slender. He was wearing a white T-shirt and some sweat pants.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Paul Batista, you`re a well-known defense attorney. You`ve covered so many cases. It`s like we have a puzzle here but we don`t have all the pieces. And until we have a couple more pieces, I don`t know that we can figure out what the heck happened and it`s aggravating because we want to do everything we can to find this child.
BATISTA: Clearly we want to do that. But we do have a lot of pieces. Many of them are conflicting. It is a fascinating puzzle, and, you know, all I can say, Jane, is let`s hope that with various clues that have been developed through this eyewitness testimony the police with all their skill are going to be able to identify who it is who has that baby.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I can think of one thing Midwin Charles, they have to find out who was not around that night. In other words, this is -- it`s a suburb of Kansas City and just figure out this neighborhood and ask everyone, is there anyone who said, I`m going out for a cup of coffee at 3:00 in the morning or after midnight?
Is there anyone who didn`t come home on time? Is there anyone in this neighborhood who said oh, honey, any guy, I`m going to be late, my tire went flat.
MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. And Jane, the questions that you`re throwing out is exactly what investigators ought to be doing. They ought to be turning over every rock and making sure that no stone is left unturned rather than focusing their attention and raking these poor parents over the coals.
That`s exactly how you conclude or you come to some sort of evidence is by doing an investigation and asking the proper questions and going to town on this video of this guy that was seen as well as this testimony that this woman just said that she saw a man walking with a baby.
How odd is that? These cops, I hope, are jumping all over that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sandra Endo, CNN correspondent who is there at the scene of the crime, the home from which this child disappeared, do we know of cops going to this farthest point where an eyewitness saw this mystery man approximately three miles from the home, a deserted area that simply got a bunch of intersections of streets, not a lot of stores or homes.
Are they starting their search from that point on foot?
ENDO: Well, we can tell you right, Jane, that according to the FBI they had no organized search today, and I asked, are there going to be any planned in the days, weeks to come. They say it depends on every lead they get and how they pursue those leads, if they determine those are viable leads to pursue.
And as of right now, they say they have all the surveillance video in the surrounding area. They have searched through the wooded area behind the home as well. We have gone out on our own, driven around this neighborhood, looked through the wooded areas and it is a very interesting neighborhood with homes and wooded areas and of course streets, dark streets, where people can be visibly seen if walking in the middle of the night.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This family has cooperated in every way they could possibly cooperate.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They decided to stop talking to detectives.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They agreed to more interviews but only under certain conditions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have every reason to believe that she`s alive. I mean -- so we just keep looking until she comes home.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, our very own Nancy Grace dancing the foxtrot on season 13 of "Dancing with the Stars." Be sure to vote. You can vote multiple times for Nancy and her fantastic dancing partner, Tristan MacManus.
Good luck, Nancy, we are rooting for you.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy and Tristan. You`re safe.
TRISTAN MACMANUS, NANCY GRACE`S DANCING PARTNER: I didn`t know what was going on. I was hoping Carson. And when I turned around, I heard the words, you`re safe. But I did not (INAUDIBLE).
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: I fired Tristan. And now I have a new pro.
I just want to say that I`m going to try my best to teach Tristan how to do the foxtrot.
I love every second of the sequence, the wig, the makeup, so everybody can make fun of me. That`s why I want to do it.
The cheerleading thing would only help if I were going, what do you want, TD, what`s that, touchdown. Not so much in the foxtrot. I don`t think.
MACMANUS: Want to make it as fun as possible. And I hope we enjoy ourselves if we make it that far.
GRACE: Remember to vote, 800-868-3405. Help me.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: And remember, Nancy is dancing for a very important cause.
Tonight let`s stop to remember Army Specialist Wesley Wells, 21 years old from Libertyville, Illinois, killed in Afghanistan. He was awarded the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart, and the Army Achievement Medal. He loved music, singing, playing guitar, surfing, making people laugh. Leaves behind his mother Joan, his grandmother Mary, and his sisters Heather and Tiffany.
Wesley Wells, a true American hero.
Thank you to all our guests and thanks to you at home. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern right here. And remember to vote for Nancy.
Nancy, you can win this thing, we know you can.
Until then, have a safe evening.
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