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Jane Velez-Mitchell
New Clues for Baby Lisa?
Aired October 25, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Good evening. Jane Velez- Mitchell coming to you live from Los Angeles, where the defense is moving at breakneck speed. This is the ninth defense witness, and it is a defense toxicologist, already being cross-examined by the prosecutor. Let`s go back into the courtroom.
WALGREN: ... of a 2-milligram tablet?
HENSON: Well, I haven`t done that calculation, but...
WALGREN: Well, you would divide 2, divided by 0.66 milligrams.
HENSON: That would be approximately correct.
WALGREN: OK. So we now know, based on this test, showing 84 nanograms per milliliter, that what was found in the stomach was 1/333 of a single 2-milligram tablet, correct?
HENSON: Yes.
WALGREN: Thank you, Mr. Henson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walgren, thank you.
Re-direct exam, Mr. Flanagan?
FLANAGAN: Mr. Henson, the calculation of 84 nanograms, that was made by a laboratory in Pennsylvania?
HANSON: Yes.
FLANAGAN: And you would agree that that`s less than the calculation made by the L.A. Coroner`s Office of 117?
HANSON: Yes.
FLANAGAN: Could you explain -- are there reasons for differences in calculations?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Counsel can clarify.
FLANAGAN: Clarify what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d ask that counsel clarify the numbers he`s using. Assumes facts not in evidence.
The objection is sustained.
FLANAGAN: Did I give a wrong number?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last answer is stricken, disregard it, and counsel can inquire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, sure.
FLANAGAN: OK. There was a quantitative analysis done by the coroner`s office, 0.006.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection.
FLANAGAN: Or 0.008. Is that right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you re-ask it please, so we avoid confusion?
FLANAGAN: The quantitative analysis by the coroner`s office reflected a 0.008. The calculation from Pennsylvania reflects a 0.006, that you`ve just made. Can you explain a reason for the difference in the analyses?
HENSON: The 0.008 from the coroner is for milligrams in the gut.
FLANAGAN: Milligrams free Lorazepam in the gastric content?
HENSON: And the other is 0.006. There can be a couple of things involved here. One is the time difference between the analysis of the samples and the condition of the sample. Was there degradation of the Lorazepam between the two tests?
The other one might be analytical variability between the two laboratories and the methodology they`re using to do the test.
FLANAGAN: Does -- would Lorazepam in a gastric sample degrade over a period of time?
HENSON: It could. I don`t know what the degradation rate would be for Lorazepam in a standing sample.
FLANAGAN: OK. Nothing further.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Flanagan, thank you. Re-cross-examine, Mr. Walgren?
WALGREN: No, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May Mr. Henson be excused, Mr. Flanagan?
FLANAGAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Walgren?
WALGREN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Henson, I want to thank you for your testimony. So please don`t discuss it or the facts of the case with any other witness until we finish the trial. You may step down. You`re excused. Thank you.
May I see counsel, please?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: An extraordinary day at the Michael Jackson death trial. We`re going to take a very brief break. When we come back, analysis of this case and breaking news on the Baby Lisa front. That`s the missing 10-month-old in Kansas City, Missouri. You`ve got to hear it. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New surveillance video could bring police one step closer to finding 11-month-old Baby Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We seen a gentleman walking up the street, carrying a baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is now word witnesses saw something strange in the street that night, and it involves a baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you know, things aren`t adding up, and so you just -- you want to believe that there`s not a crazy person out there who`s taking babies, but you also want to believe the mom, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An FBI cadaver dog got a positive hit in the parents` bedroom, near the bed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That baby is pure!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we pray for her protection.
DEBORAH BRADLEY, LISA`S MOTHER: We need her home. I can`t -- I can`t be without her.
Because we`re grieving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight marks three weeks and more than 900 tips that have piled up in the frantic hunt for missing Baby Lisa. Cops desperately searching for the 11-month-old girl. New, shocking information about her mother, Deborah, is coming out tonight. An ex-friend says she thinks Deborah is a con artist. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHIRLEY PFAFF, DEBORAH BRADLEY`S EX-FRIEND: I don`t believe her. I just don`t believe her. Because I know she can turn her cry on like that. I know she is a good con artist. A very good con artist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But do three eyewitnesses saying they saw a man carrying a mostly naked baby in the dead of night, and new surveillance video, prove that, yes, the baby was kidnapped, possibly by a complete stranger.
Cops now tell ABC.com, quote, "We need them," meaning the parents, "to sit down apart from each other with detectives and answer tough questions detectives may have for them concerning what they may or may not know about anything: who came and went the night Lisa disappeared. There`s a whole list of things they may know."
All right. That`s the cops. They want to talk to these parents, separately.
It`s been nine days since Baby Lisa`s parents sat down for a media interview, but yesterday we finally heard from Deborah, the missing child`s mother. Listen carefully to what she says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it true that you`re getting paid to avoid local reporters?
BRADLEY: Not at all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then why won`t you talk to us?
BRADLEY: Because we`re grieving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Grieving? Grieving? That`s the word she used. I thought Baby Lisa was still missing, and her parents were still hopeful to find her alive. Was that a subconscious slip-up? What do you think? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to Sandra Endo, CNN reporter, live on the ground at the crime scene.
You were there when Deborah, the mother, spoke. What did you see? What was the reaction?
SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It`s very interesting, Jane, because we were in front of the home she`s staying at, which is a relative`s house, just a six-minute drive from her actual home. And we were there when the local reporter yelled out that question and heard those words, "We are grieving."
It was interesting, because we all kind of thought, that`s an interesting choice of words that she used. But, clearly, I`m not a behavior expert, and I`ll leave it up to those people to find out what goes through the mind of somebody who is in this situation.
Now, I can tell you, Jane, that we have talked to the lawyer of the parents, Cyndy Short, who says, "Look, this is a 25-year-old young mother, devoted to her kids, loved Baby Lisa, thought this child was going to bring her family full circle, reunite everyone in this family, and she just loved that baby so much, called her Pumpkin Pie, that she would never do something like this. And of course, is just missing the baby desperately" -- Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s take a look at the timeline. Thank you for that, Sandra.
Deborah says her daughter, Baby Lisa, was taken from her crib sometime after she put the child to bed at 6:40 p.m. And remember, she`d originally said 10:30, and then she changed her story.
Now, a neighbor says they saw a man walking down the street at 12:15 in the morning, carrying a mystery baby. Then at 2:15 in the morning, there`s gas station surveillance video showing a man that could be the very same man as the mystery man with the baby walking down the road.
Finally, 4 a.m., about three miles from Baby Lisa`s house, a motorcyclist said he sees a mystery man walking around with a baby, as well.
So, I want to bring in Jack Trimarco, a polygraph expert, retired FBI. What do you make of these baby sightings? And I can give you another little wrinkle here. The guy who saw the man, the mystery man with the baby at 4 in the morning, he says cops showed him six photos, and he picked one photo and said, "That`s the man that I saw," but then the other witness looked at the same photo and says, "No, that`s not the guy."
JACK TRIMARCO, RETIRED FBI: Well, Jane, what we`ve got to understand is these are eyewitness identifications. And as we all know, they`re fraught with error. Not -- not to discount them, because the police have to do their investigations, assuming they`ve got a hot lead here, until they can prove that it`s either not accurate or fabricated.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, fabricated. Who fabricates a guy walking down the street with a baby? I mean, I don`t think you make that up. I don`t think all these witnesses didn`t see anything. I don`t think that that points to nothing there. That`s surveillance video from the gas station. Somebody saw this man. The question is, was he holding Baby Lisa or not?
TRIMARCO: The question is, was he in concert with someone who lives at that house? Or was this an abduction? Was this an abduction with the parents completely uninvolved and unaware? Or is the abductor, if that is the abductor, somehow associated with the parents, and we`re all covering for each other?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this, Lauren Lake, criminal defense attorney, is why the cops want to talk to these parents separately. And the parents say, well, the detectives have their blinders on, words to this effect. They, within an hour of talking to the mother, they basically accused her of murder. This is according to the family`s reps. "And we want new detectives on this case. We don`t want these same old detectives talking to us." What do you make of that, Lauren?
LAUREN LAKE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The parents are frustrated. I think when they were first called in for questioning, within an hour, the mother was pretty much accused of doing something to her child.
And I think at this point, they have lawyered up. They have a lawyer, and their lawyer is advising them that you need to get off of defense and pretty much get on offense. Meaning, we set the terms. We`re going to talk. We`re going to cooperate, but we`re not going to get into any type of questioning where they are completely hitting them over their head, disrespecting them, accusing them without foundation. And I think that`s pretty much what we have here.
Unfortunately, in the court of public opinion, it`s playing against this mother and her husband, because most of us feel like, if our child was missing, we`d be waving flags, running around outside, doing whatever we had to do to get information out. It`s just not playing well to the public.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and here`s another thing that might not play so well. Deborah, the mother of the missing child, putting a new look forward. I want you to take a look and decide for yourself, OK?
On the right you can see Deborah right after Baby Lisa was reported missing. And then, take a look on the left at the vigil a couple of days ago. It looks like she`s had, if not a makeover, that at least she`s been to the salon. And then, of course, there`s the original photo of her with her hair pulled back. What do you make of that, Jack Trimarco, if she`s had her hair done up?
TRIMARCO: Jane, when I was with the FBI, working these type of cases, this type of behavior is unheard of. Usually, the mother and the father are concerned about the recovery, the safe recovery of the child, not coifing for the cameras.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, now, speaking of talking to the cameras, we`re hearing from Deborah`s estranged husband. OK, the man that she had this child with who`s now missing is her live-in boyfriend, but she has a husband, OK? The father of her first child, that she is still technically married to. He spoke to NBC`s "Today Show." Listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has always been a good mom. I`m still confused by what`s going on. This is craziness to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So, he`s upset about this.
Sandra Endo, CNN reporter, we`ve got so many different things happening, and one of the biggest things is that cadaver dogs hit on the bedroom of the mother`s house where she was supposedly passed out on the floor, after having at least five glasses of wine, and I think we do have video of the box of wine. And so, you have that aspect, as well. The forensic aspect. What can you tell us about that?
ENDO: Absolutely. In terms of the investigation, Jane, we know that there are 30 to 50 investigators working this case right now. They`re certainly not calling it a cold case. We`re talking about FBI officials and Kansas Police Department.
They did go in there, and they brought in these dogs from Washington, D.C., because Kansas City Police Department doesn`t even have a K-9 unit of its own. So they brought in these dogs, and that is when, as you mentioned, a cadaver dog made a positive hit on the scent of a dead body inside Deborah Bradley`s bedroom on an area of the floor near her bed. And that is why they did an extensive 17-hour search of the home and the surrounding area.
But, if you listen to the lawyer of the family, she went inside the home and showed on video that police didn`t take much. There was no carpet cut out around that area of the supposed hit, so certainly a lot of questions, and of course, police are keeping very tight-lipped about the details of what they are investigating.
And the bottle of wine we showed you or the box of wine, as it were, that`s from NBC`s "Today Show."
Now, Jack Trimarco, you would think they would cut out the area where they say a cadaver dog hit, but they didn`t cut out the carpet. What does that mean?
TRIMARCO: I don`t think that anything can be drawn from that, Jane. We don`t know where what they found. We don`t know exactly where they found it, but it is a bit away from the norm when a defense attorney goes into the house and starts to criticize the crime scene investigators, what they took, what they didn`t take, at this stage. Perhaps the lawyers should stay with the law and let the investigators investigate the crime.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it seems that there`s a war of words going on between this family and law enforcement. And that`s what`s so confusing, Jack, because everyone`s thinking, well, this mother should just do anything, basically, just offer herself up in any way, shape, or form.
Meantime, let`s get back to this mystery man who was seen holding a baby who was naked in 45-degree temperatures in the dead of night, the night that this child disappeared. There was another witness who saw what sounds like the exact same man as the first set of witnesses, carrying a baby around. This male witness, who was on a motorcycle, saw this man with a baby at 4 in the morning the night Baby Lisa went missing, which is the exact time, approximately, that the dad is calling 911, saying, "Our child has been taken from our home." Listen to this from "GMA".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four o`clock in the morning, 45 degrees, baby don`t have a blanket, a coat or nothing, and this guy`s walking down the street. I thought it was kind of weird.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Here is the bizarre part about it. OK, this is the location, right here. You`re taking a look at the actual place where this motorcyclist says he saw a man walking around with a baby at 4 in the morning, at the very same time that the family is calling 911 and saying, "Our baby has been taken."
Now, Lauren Lake, the cops, according to this guy, showed him a photograph, a whole bunch of photographs, and he picked a man out of those photographs. And then somebody got a hold of those photographs and showed it to the first witness, and she said, "No, that`s not the guy at all." What do you make of that?
LAKE: Well, I can`t recall whether the second gentleman, what was his vantage point to the actual...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He was on a motorcycle.
LAKE: OK. So he was probably a little bit closer than the witness that was looking out of the window. So, you know, it could possibly be just eyewitness differentiate -- you know, it doesn`t matter.
The bottom line is the first guy, the person doesn`t think it looks right, the second one says...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL STANTON, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: I think the simple fact that you have three separate witnesses all saying something to the effect of they saw someone carrying a child that wasn`t wrapped up in a blanket, that wasn`t necessarily wrapped up in baby clothes, is compelling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The child`s mother says she wants a new set of detectives before she`ll talk to police, because she feels they`re sort of out to get her. The cops say they are not getting the level of cooperation they need from these parents to solve this case.
Nevertheless, we`ve seen a lot of weeping from Deborah since she first reported her daughter missing. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRADLEY: He came home and I was -- he said, "She`s not in her crib."
And I said, "What do you mean she`s not in her crib?" And I just knew, you know, something was really wrong. We were running around the house and we were screaming for her, and she was nowhere. And I said, "Call 911, call 911."
And he said, "Where are the phones?" And they weren`t on the counter where I left them. They were gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, this mother is not a suspect, say police, but her former friend says that Deborah could fake tears. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PFAFF: She does have a good heart, but then there`s just that other side of her that`s a totally different person you don`t want to be around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to go to the phone lines now. Patty, Colorado, your question or thought, Patty.
CALLER: Hi. Can you hear me?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I can. Your question or thought, Patty?
CALLER: You can?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I can!
CALLER: My thought is -- thanks for taking my call and I love watching your show every night.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: I -- my thinking is, with her, with the mother, that was drinking with a friend -- I don`t know if it was a male or female -- but, anyway, if she had a blackout and she took the baby into her room, because the baby was fussy that night and maybe rolled over, fell on the bed, the dog hit on it.
And then there was a 2:30 call made somewhere with one of those phones, and then the three witnesses that are seeing that they saw this man in a white shirt with a, you know, with a bald head, well, take a look at her boyfriend there. He`s sort of a deer-in-the-headlight look, and she does most of the talking. And he has a semi-bald head. And what if he came home...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, guess what, Patty? I hear what -- I hear what you`re saying, but let`s go back to Sandra Endo, CNN reporter at the crime scene. The caller is asking, well, what`s up with the dad? Does he have an alibi? Tell us if he has an alibi or not.
ENDO: Yes, Jane. By all accounts, we know that the father, Jeremy Irwin, is pretty much cleared in this case, because he did, in fact, have an alibi, as you know, when he came home at 4 in the morning, he was returning from his night shift, so he was working. As far as the details about his shift that night, it`s still unclear. Of course, police are keeping very tight-lipped on all those details, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But there was surveillance video of him working at a Starbucks, a second job, doing electrical work. However, ten seconds, Jack. We don`t know how long that surveillance lasted or whether he had access to a vehicle. I`m not calling him a suspect, but we have unanswered questions.
TRIMARCO: We have unanswered questions. And they can only be solved by polygraph. We`ve already had a polygraph in this case. If she truly failed, there`s a good reason why she might want different detectives on the case. In this system, in this case, it doesn`t work that way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you find it suspicious that she wants...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL LOHAN, FATHER OF LINDSAY LOHAN: Do I know my daughter? I used to know my daughter. Do I know her now? I don`t understand how she thinks.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: So her failure to show up nine times at the downtown women`s center for scheduled appointments, that is reaching a turning point in your maturity? I am revoking her probation pending a hearing. I am also setting bail at $100,000.
M. LOHAN: She needs to get help. It`s obvious, obvious that there`s severe addiction problems.
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: It`s my career and something I`ve worked for my entire life.
M. LOHAN: You can`t dance with the devil and expect to go home with Jesus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Lohan in big trouble tonight. Meantime, his daughter, Lindsay Lohan, also in trouble recently, is now letting it all hang out, so to speak. New reports that the actress is making a shocking, shocking career move; she has allegedly signed a nearly $1 million deal to strip down naked and pose for "Playboy".
TMZ reporting Lindsay started shooting over the weekend, just days after her probation was revoked; this news coming on the heels of other shocking news that her dad is making headlines, and for a bad reason. Not for speaking out against his famous daughter. Oh, no. Oh, no.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My ex-fiance and I have an order of protection. Please get here. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he`s there now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t talk. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you can`t answer yes or no questions?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t. I can`t do that. I can`t even do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why can`t you do that ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I`m afraid of him. He`s going to come in here and hit me.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So that 911 call is one of the reasons why Michael Lohan is in jail, as we speak. According to a police report, his on and off-again girlfriend, Kate Major, says he threatened to kill her. Wow.
Joining me now, chief correspondent of "Inside Edition", Jim Moret; what the heck went down with Michael Lohan?
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, it`s yet another allegation of domestic violence against Michael Lohan, made by his girlfriend. She -- police were called in Florida and they allegedly had been fighting over sex and he was arrested. While he`s being arrested, he complains of chest pains, he`s taken to the hospital. He apparently thinks he`s not being watched, tries to leave the hospital, and then police get him right there and book him with no bail.
It`s not the first time -- there was a hearing scheduled for Wednesday --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on, Jim. What`s this? Describe this. Describe this.
MORET: There he is. That`s it, right there.
(CROSSTALK)
MORET: So he thinks no one`s watching him and he goes to check out of the hospital on his own. Police say, oh, hold on, not so fast. We`re going to book you for suspected domestic violence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
MORET: Wow.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So he is in jail tonight. And this is embarrassing, wow. Look at that.
MORET: Who needs reality TV when you have the Lohans?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly. Who needs reality TV when you`ve got Lohan reality?
Michael Lohan, believe it or not, was on this show just a few days ago and he was saying he`s the caring father; really, really worried about his daughter`s problems, his famous daughter`s problems. Listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
M. LOHAN: She`s beating the system. And she`s not going to be working in a morgue. She`s going to wind up in a morgue if someone doesn`t do something to get her help. She`s a blessed kid. I love her to death. I`m going out there. I`m going to get rid of all of the people I can out of her life. But I`m going to speak to this judge, the probation department, and to everyone else I have to, to try to get her the help she needs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. For his part, Michael is saying and telling cops he never put his hands on his on-again, off-again girlfriend, Kate. By the way, there`s a temporary restraining order that`s since been extended vis- a-vis Kate against Michael Lohan.
I`ve got to bring Howard Samuels in, founder and CEO of The Hills Treatment Center because look, I`m 16 years sober. Michael Lohan says he`s sober and comes on our show saying, hey, I`m worried about my daughter and I`m worried about her issues. And then this happens? What do you make of it, as an addiction specialist?
HOWARD SAMUELS, FOUNDER AND CEO, THE HILLS TREATMENT CENTER: Well, to be honest is that there is no recovery in the Lohan family. Ok? Even though Michael says he`s sober, he`s not in recovery. Recovery is about a change of behavior. Recovery is about, you know, working on self. And Michael has shown time and time again that he has such anger issues that he`s unwilling to really do the work to change that.
Now, if you take a look at his daughter, it`s the same issue. Is that she says she`s sober, yet she arrives late going to the morgue, ok? That`s not sober behavior. The rules do not apply to the Lohan family.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to say that it just pains me, because I`m not a psychic. I don`t know what people are going to do from one day to the next. And when Michael Lohan came on our show and said he was genuinely worried about his daughter, and that he always presented himself to be in sobriety, to be sort of working his program of sobriety. You accept that on face value that hey, he`s a dad worrying about his daughter. But when you see this, you wonder, what the heck`s going on with this family? And dysfunctionality often comes in a package.
SAMUELS: Well, you know, it`s very simple. In recovery, everyone gets to speak the lingo, ok? And Michael knows the lingo, but he doesn`t know the behavioral change. That`s what separates the men from the boys, ok?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is there any nexus between that and the other Lohan story that`s making a lot of news today. A "Playboy" deal, reportedly, with Lindsay Lohan, which comes on the heels of, well, the reports about her having a problem with her teeth, ok? And her reps have responded to the before and after pictures or the discrepancy pictures, whatever you want to call them, saying Lindsay is widely recognized as one of the most beautiful women on the planet and is regularly sought after by some of the top photographers in the world. But these photographs of what seem to be, perhaps, allegedly deteriorating teeth have some people wonder she`s got problems.
Lauren Lake, you`ve covered so many of these cases, these celebrity problems. What do you make of this father/daughter team that seems to be getting into sort of parallel problems and parallel controversies?
LAUREN LAKE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think your guest put it so eloquently, Jane. Michael Lohan talks the talk, but he doesn`t walk the walk. And every time we look at this young girl, Lindsay, and we`d say, what in the world is her problem? Why can`t she get it together? Why does she think she`s above the law? And then we see who her parents are. There`s no issue. We see exactly where it`s coming from.
Now, you know, as a defense attorney, I have to say, he`s in jail, but he hasn`t been proven guilty. We don`t really know what went down in that home that day. But we would have to be fools if we didn`t understand that this family is suffering from dysfunction on disproportionate levels. And it`s affecting this young girl.
She can`t get it together. Jail doesn`t even deter her, Jane. She doesn`t do her community service, she cannot get anything right. And if you look at those pictures of her teeth, let`s be serious. That`s a drug- addicted young girl. There is no denying it. She needs help. And she is going beyond the realm of where she can bring herself back into the fold on her own.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I just want to say that I have no idea what she is or is not doing, and she or her attorney or her PR person is invited on the show anytime to tell their side of the story.
Jim Moret, is it a bad idea for her professionally to pose naked for "Playboy", if in fact, that`s what she`s doing. But that`s the published reports.
MORET: Look, it`s reported that she`s going to get $1 million for this. She needs money. She`s not working. She may be going to jail, very soon, as soon as next week, depending upon what happens at her probation violation hearing. And we`ve seen a lot of actresses jump-start their career, or start their career over again, by going into "Playboy" and doing a nude pictorial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what better way to counteract, oh, people say she doesn`t look so good, she showed in to court looking puffy and seemed to have big streaks on the side of her face and people talking about her teeth and blah, blah, blah. What better way to counter all of that by looking like a million bucks, literally and figuratively, in "Playboy" magazine?
MORET: But one thing that shouldn`t happen, her dad should not show up in court as a character witness. Based upon that -- I love that video. Have you ever seen a pat-down like that in a hospital? I don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what, if you put it in like "Grey`s Anatomy", they`d say, oh, come on, this is crazy. That`s not going to happen.
Lynn, Tennessee, your question or thought, Lynn?
LYNN, TENNESSEE (via telephone): Is this Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, hi.
LYNN: Hi, Jane, how are you?.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m doing great. What`s your question or thought, Lynn?
LYNN: If they would keep her somewhere, and to let her go every time she gets in trouble, she would get the help she needs. But, you know, she keeps getting in the same trouble she keeps getting into. If they would keep her locked up somewhere, like she`s supposed to be, if it was me or you, we`d be in jail.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think you make a great point. Lynn, Tennessee, you should be a lawyer. But Howard Samuels, she`s right. The fact is that she is brazen because she knows she can`t be thrown in jail, because there`s such overcrowding in Los Angeles. You almost have to kill somebody to do time behind bars.
They are even saying that Conrad Murray, even if he`s convicted, is probably going to get house arrest, because he`s a nonviolent felon with no criminal record, and that means he won`t go to state prison. He`ll go to county jail, where they let you out for overcrowding.
SAMUELS: Yes, but Jane, you know, but I`m a convicted felon. I`ve been arrested numerous times because I`m sober too, as you know, 27 years.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Right.
SAMUELS: When I was arrested, I did what the probation officer told me. He said, "Jump"; I said, "How high", because I was scared. That was my bottom.
What is scary here for Lindsay is, where`s her bottom? Why is she not scared? Why does she take such blatant risks?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because she lives in a no-consequence zone, or at least she thinks she does. Thank you, guests.
Up next, I`m going to take you outside, across the street. You won`t believe what I`ll show you.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re occupying Los Angeles. You know, this is the movement which began in solidarity with Occupy Wall Street and the other occupy movements.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Jane Velez-Mitchell here outside the criminal courts building in downtown Los Angeles -- this is where the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray is occurring. And here we have some protesters from France. They have come here to demonstrate, "Justis pour Michael".
But this is not the only movement in town. Check this out. Right across the street, you`ve got a very important movement. Hundreds of people camped out in tents. Let`s go visit them.
All right. Here we are, the Michael Jackson death trial is over there, and we are at base camp for Occupy L.A., which is a part of a national movement -- in fact, I daresay, a global movement -- organized by people who call themselves the 99 percenters, saying they represent 99 percent of the population that`s not getting its due.
Now, this map over here shows some of the areas that also, across the United States, have Occupy movements. You can see a lot of red dots there, and it does extend across the pond, as they say, to Europe, where you see Occupy movements as well.
Let me give you a little show and tell of what`s moving on here. First of all, we went from French, right now we have Spanish, "Tierra y Libertad, Occupy L.A." That means land and liberty, occupy L.A. Here`s another sign, "Money for jobs, not war". And here`s another one right here. It says, "Drop Student Tuition, Not Bombs".
I haven`t done an official count, but it looks like there are hundreds of tents here. Take a look at this. This is the lawn -- it used to be, anyway -- of city hall. And take a look down there. I mean these are -- people are camping out here overnight. They`ve created a little tent city, really.
ELISE WHITAKER, OCCUPY LOS ANGELES: We`re occupying Los Angeles. You know, this is a movement which began in solidarity with Occupy Wall Street and other Occupy movements across the nation and across the world. And we`re here and we`re standing up until we get change.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When you say you`re the 99 percenters, describe what you mean by that?
WHITAKER: One percent of the population controls 42 percent of the wealth. We are the 99 percent. We think that it`s unfair that janitors are getting pay cuts and benefit cuts and CEOs of major corporations aren`t paying taxes at all. Our government, which was set up to be of the people, by the people, and for the people, is now essentially run by corporations and corporations are not people.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why did you decide to come down here and pitch a tent?
WHITAKER: Because I think that this is going to be the big movement of my generation, and potentially my lifetime. I think that this is really us standing up and taking a stand for what`s right, for what we believe in, and for what`s fair.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s actually a community here, and it`s pretty well organized.
WHITAKER: Yes. We`re extremely well organized. We have a system of number of committees. We have a general assembly that meets every night at 7:30. We`re -- yes, we`re a very organized little city within a city.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You have to be here to get the real sense of how huge this is. City hall`s a big building, and they are surrounding it with tents -- tent after tent after tent after tent. It goes on and on and on. Check it out.
Contrary to the belief that this is just a haphazard collection of tents, there is a lot of organization here, and there`s a lot of things that people can do. Check out this.
I don`t want to speak too loudly, because it`s a meditation temple. And it`s asking for silence. They`re doing yoga here, they`re doing meditation.
This is a library that they`ve created over here. "Calling all poets," I like that.
They`ve got a rather expensive recycling program here at Occupy L.A. Check this out. It says zero waste zone, and you`ve got one bin for food, another for recycle, another for landfill and for regular trash. So, they are walking the walk in that sense. And yes, in case you`re wondering, Occupy L.A. does have port-a-potties, more than half a dozen of them.
And here`s a table after my own heart. I`m an animal advocate and we`ve got some animal advocacy here; "I am the 99 percent too", a lab animal.
You were part of the Occupy Phoenix movement. You came down here to see how the Occupy L.A. movement is doing?
VICTOR HOELSCHER, OCCUPY LOS ANGELES: Yes, ma`am, that`s correct. And I`m really impressed with what they`ve accomplished here. It`s a good movement.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think they`ve accomplished?
HOELSCHER: Well, apparently they`ve had some negotiations with the cities that`s allowed them to put tents out here and to occupy, actually occupy the ground. That`s a lot more than what some of the other movements are doing. They`re being arrested by the police. They`re being moved out. Their tents are being torn down and people are being arrested.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re here trying to get a sense of what`s happening and why folks are here. What would you tell us?
ALEJANDRO, OCCUPY LOS ANGELES: Well, we`re here to exercise our freedoms, our inherent rights. A lot of people are here for a lot of different political ideologies. There`s Democrats, Republicans, Tea Partyers, Libertarians.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are there people here who can`t get jobs and who are upset and saying hey, we want to be able to get some work?
ALEJANDRO: What`s your name?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell.
ALEJANDRO: Of course, Jane, you know. There`s a lot of unemployment going on around the entire world, so you know, we`re fed up. It`s a right, it`s not a privilege. A job is not a privilege, it`s a right. A lot of people can`t get jobs with an English degree, a bachelor`s degree in English, a bachelor`s degree in history or political science.
You know what I mean? They`ve only set the bar a little higher. These days you have to have a master`s degree to get a job.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re here talking with Alejandro, we have a whole group of people who are here listening and participating. These are just some of the folks who are involved in Occupy L.A.
I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell reporting from downtown Los Angeles, right in the heart of Occupy L.A.
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CHERILYN LEE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S NURSE: He said "I`m telling you the only thing that`s going to help me to sleep right away is the Diprivan. Can you find someone to help me sleep?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael self-medicated. Hey, if you love Michael so much, why didn`t you go to his house and get him off drugs.
LEE: One half of my body is hot and one half of my body is cold.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know that sleep was an issue, particularly after performing. He could not come down.
LEE: He said, "Now that I have not been able to sleep all night, it`s going to mess up my performance for the day."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Another huge day in the Michael Jackson death trial - - the defense in full swing. Is their strategy to demonize the king of pop? The day started out with superstar Janet Jackson arriving at court after racing home from Australia, where she postponed some concerts in order to be inside the courtroom.
A big defense witness list includes Michael`s former nurse, Cherilyn Lee. She tried to get Michael to use holistic sleep aids, but listen to this.
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LEE: He said, "Now that I have not been able to sleep all night this is going to mess up my performance for the day. He said, you know, "The only thing that`s going to help me is Diprivan, and this is not working."
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And she`s the second witness for the defense, even though they`re kind of hostile witnesses that don`t really want to be there who say, hey, Michael Jackson asked me for an IV of an anesthesia?
MORET: By name, actually.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
MORET: He knew what he wanted. He knew exactly what he wanted. I don`t think there`s really any dispute.
I think if you say is Michael Jackson addicted? Is he using drugs? You could agree with all of that, and it still doesn`t let Conrad Murray off the hook because what`s Michael Jackson doing? With that nurse you get the feeling that he was trying to lull her in. He was allowing her to give IVs of those holistic remedies and vitamin C concoctions and then he said could you add Propofol?
She said, Michael, you don`t want to use that. We have to get you some help, but you don`t want to use this. He was looking for a doctor to say yes, and I would suggest that the prosecution is saying, great, he found one. Dr. Murray said yes. All the other doctors said no, I won`t give him Propofol. I would never do that. Dr. Murray did by his own admission give it to him what, 80 times.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re saying because these defense witnesses said no, I refused to give him the Propofol. I refused to help him get the Propofol. That ultimately these defense witnesses do more for the prosecution?
MORET: I think so. I think the defense -- they`re now trying to demonize Michael Jackson; they`re trying to blame him. They`re suggesting or implying certainly that he was an addict. I would suggest even if you accept the fact he`s an addict, that doesn`t mean that Dr. Murray isn`t responsible. It doesn`t mean he`s not guilty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. How else is the defense trying to point the finger at Michael Jackson? Listen to what this nurse, Cherilyn Lee said on the stand today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: He said, "I`m telling you the only thing that`s going to help me to sleep right away is the Diprivan. And can you find someone to help me to sleep?
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Doctor shopping. It is a major problem in this country. And I think this is really important, Jim, because it does put the spotlight on the fact that doctors are often prescribing and giving narcotics and really, really serious drugs when they don`t have to.
MORET: Right. Michael Jackson, with that testimony you heard, knew exactly what he wanted, which tells me he`d had it before, and he`d found a doctor who wanted to give it to him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I think that could work for the --
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: I`m feeling really, really dizzy. And I`m sorry, my vision had just become a little blurred, so if you can just give me a minute.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is one of several witnesses called by the defense, but they`re close to the Jackson family. They don`t want to be there. They`re pretty much hostile witnesses.
MORET: Did you ever see a witness do this? She has to get off the stand for 20 minutes because she`s so upset and doesn`t want to be there. These witnesses do not seem to be working for the defense.
I know you say that there`s a bias. That most of the pundits think that the prosecution is winning. Look, I`m looking at this as a viewer. And I`m saying if Michael Jackson is an addict, why is that doctor giving him the drugs? And that`s all we`ve been hearing.
No, I wouldn`t give him the drugs. No, I wouldn`t -- one after another after another. We heard it from the nurse. We heard it from the doctor. I think this doctor is in trouble.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I can tell you that out on the streets of Los Angeles, there is far more sympathy for Conrad Murray because they feel that there`s a case of shared responsibility by the patient as well. But we`ll have to see.
You`re watching ISSUES.
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