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Nancy Grace
Dr. Conrad Murray`s Fate in Jury`s Hands
Aired November 04, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson. We are in a verdict watch, the Michael Jackson homicide trial now with a jury of 12. Jackson`s live-in doctor, Conrad Murray, on trial for shooting Jackson up with a super-powerful surgical anesthetic, propofol, then leaving the superstar to die surrounded by his own urine.
Bombshell tonight. As the jury deliberates, we learn that the defendant, Conrad Murray, is actually filming a movie about himself, hoping for a payday of at least a quarter million dollars. As millions of fans wait for justice, Jackson`s doctor, Conrad Murray, braces for a verdict. The jury clock is ticking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you may think Dr. Murray is a sinner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most common sense thing that we all learned as young children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may think Dr. Murray is a sinner.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it says, OK, you know what? This was an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That you call 911 immediately.
911 OPERATOR: Get him on the floor. Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Just the doctor, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gave a great performance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was optimistic. He was looking toward the future.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was Conrad Murray getting caught up in the celebrity lifestyle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His eyes were open. His mouth was slightly open.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense is going to try to say all these horrible things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson had a problem.
MICHAEL JACKSON: Children are depressed in those hospitals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. The sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson -- we are in a verdict watch, the Jackson homicide trial now with a jury of 12.
Let`s go straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent "In Session." I`m now hearing we`ve got her satellite up. Jean, you`ve been at the courthouse all day long. The jury has just broken deliberations. I understand that the family, the grandmother, Ms. Jackson has been moved close to the courthouse in anticipation of the verdict.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You know, Nancy, there`s been so much anticipation around that courthouse today. And we learned late today that Katherine Jackson and Joe Jackson have actually come to downtown Los Angeles to have a hotel room. That`s where they are staying, we understand, in anticipation of a verdict. When it happens they want to be here.
But the crowd kept building today, Nancy. The people, the fans kept coming of (ph) Michael Jackson, believing today was going to be the day. But just minutes ago, they were sent home for the weekend. They`ll be back again on Monday.
GRACE: Everybody, we are live and taking your calls. Out to Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of "Issues With Jane Velez-Mitchell." Jane, thanks for being with us. The crowd around the courthouse is surging, everybody waiting for justice. Describe to me what`s going on outside the courthouse.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": Well, I`ve got to tell you, today, Nancy, one of the biggest crowd we`ve seen since the start of this trial. And people were very anxious, awaiting a verdict which didn`t come today.
And things got tense because you have the Dr. Conrad Murray supporters on one side, you have the Michael Jackson fans on the other, and they were clashing. They were clashing verbally. They were accusing each other of things, saying, I`m going to call the police on you. And it got very, very heated.
And I think part of it`s just the anxiety. Everybody`s on pins and needles. There were a couple of false alarms. When word spread that Katherine was coming from Calabassas (ph) to downtown L.A., a lot of people assumed there was a verdict, incorrectly making that assumption. And so people swarmed here, and then they were furious when it turned out that she was simply staying at a nearby hotel in order to be ready for when the verdict did come. So a lot of frayed nerves.
GRACE: You know, another thing we`ve learned, Jane Velez, is that during all of this, as the facts regarding Michael Jackson`s death have been recounted in the courtroom, the whole time, the defendant, Conrad Murray, has been filming a movie about himself? And that he hopes for a payday of at least a quarter million dollars. That`s what he`s been doing during all of this, Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen. He`s been spotted on the beach. He`s been spotted out and about with his girlfriend, who has become known as "instrument." She`s the one who testified that -- when she was asked what she did, she said, I worked on my instrument, meaning myself because I`m an actress and my body is an instrument. He was at Gladstone`s partying the day before closing arguments.
So he`s out and about. He`s still a man about town, as it were.
GRACE: You know, to Ellie Jostad. What can you tell me about this movie that the defendant -- you see him right there, Dr. Conrad Murray, on trial in the death of Michael Jackson, the superstar -- he`s filming a movie about himself? As a matter of fact, when he rides to the courthouse for the verdict, we`re expecting for a camera to be in the car. What the hey?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Radaronline is reporting that Dr. Conrad Murray has been involved in a documentary film about himself. It`s been going on. He`s been being interviewed for this documentary since he was charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson.
They say this crew was with him last night, interviewed him for about an hour. They talked to him again this morning, where he`s been hunkered down, apparently, with his girlfriend, Nicole Alvarez, and other friends. They even plan to be in the car with him and record his reaction when he gets word that a verdict has been reached, when he`s headed to the courthouse to learn his fate, that they`ll be there with him.
And also, Radar is reporting that the reason Murray is partaking in this -- participating in this project is that he hopes that when they sell this, or if they sell this movie to a network, from anywhere from of $250,000 to a million dollars, that he`ll get a cut of that and he`ll use it to pay his legal bills.
GRACE: Well, you know what? I`m sure he`s got plenty of money, Ellie, because he was charging Michael Jackson $150,000 a month to live there and be his personal doctor. So I hardly doubt that Conrad Murray has any money problems.
We are live and taking your calls. Out to Debbie in Louisiana. Hi, Debbie. What`s your question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am. I`m a little confused here because this case seems to be pretty much cut and dried. He gave Michael Jackson this medicine. He should not have given the medicine. So I don`t understand what the issue is.
And another thing I`m wondering -- by all accounts, from everything I`ve heard about Michael Jackson, he was not a vindictive, he was a mean person. What would he think about all of this?
GRACE: You know, Beth Karas joining us, legal correspondent, "In Session," also joining us from L.A. You know, Beth, Debbie in Louisiana has a point. There`s no doubt that the doctor administered propofol in the past. But the whole defense is that on this occasion, Jackson self- administered. Break it down, Beth.
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, you`re right. And the defense concedes the element of criminal negligence. They admit that Murray was negligent. The only issue really for the jury is causation, whether or not Michael Jackson is responsible for his death.
But you know what? There`s no such thing as a fatal dose of propofol. It breaks down so fast in the body that any amount, even a tiny amount, can be deadly. You need to be by your patient`s side. You have to monitor and open the airway, give oxygen to your patient.
Abandonment is the key here. So the jury may be hung up right now on causation -- that`s the real issue in the case -- and whether or not to blame Michael Jackson for it. But quite frankly, there is a view, a definition in the law that will allow the jury to convict even if they believe Michael Jackson did it to himself because Conrad Murray provided it and played a substantial role.
And as you know, Nancy -- you`ve tried so many cases -- the cases that go to trial usually have an issue.
GRACE: You know what, Beth? You`re right. You know, Jean Casarez, this whole issue the defense has raised about Jackson self-administering -- the reality is, is they said he self-administered with a syringe that had a capacity of 10 ccs, but there was only 25 mls in there, that that`s what he shot up.
But Jean, you and I together have gone over the autopsy report line by line. His whole body was saturated! And in my mind, what accounts for it is that even after Jackson was dead, this saline drip was pumping him full of propofol. Jean, there`s no way that one syringe could have made him this intoxicated with propofol.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, the defense says there is because you can take that syringe, and if you do a strong, fast bolus into you, that can take the blood levels that high. But here`s the thing, Nancy. The intervening act actually makes the case stronger for the prosecution because Conrad Murray saw all the pill bottles around the bedroom. He recorded Jackson on May 10th with a slurred voice. He knew that Michael Jackson had issues. Therefore, an intervening act would be foreseeable. So Conrad Murray cannot be absolved of guilt because of an intervening act.
GRACE: You know what? They could have used you in closing arguments, Jean Casarez.
To Dr. Bethany Marshall -- in just a moment, we`re unleashing the lawyers -- Dr. Bethany, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." Bethany, I want to get back to Conrad Murray and something Jean just said reminded me. You know he secretly taped his own client talking, all right? And he probably taped more than that. Now we know he`s shooting a movie about himself during the trial and during jury deliberations to make money.
He`s still milking the cow, Dr. Bethany, still getting money out of Michael Jackson!
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, he`s treating the case like he treated his patient. His interest in money corrupted his conscience, and that`s why there was gross negligence in terms of medical care. His interest in money is corrupting his conscience in terms of how he appears to the public and what is appropriate in this particular case. So I think it`s just the same behavior all the way through.
And plus, the corruption of conscience has to do with his own be grandiosity because he overestimated his abilities with his patient. He did not have the extensive training that an anesthesiologist has. And in the same way, there`s a grandiosity that goes into filming himself and feeling that he`s going to get all of that money.
And one final factor. I don`t think Michael Jackson ever paid him. And in a sense, it`s like he`s taking his pound flesh back out of the situation. You didn`t pay me. I`ve gone through all of this. You know what? I`m going to make money over your dead body by filming all of this and making money off of this situation. I would imagine that`s a part of his thought process.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Sandy in Louisiana. Hi, Sandy. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Kudos to you and Tristan for making it through the week eight. I have a question. I am appalled with the defense, Nancy. How could this man get up there and say that the prosecution called Michael Jackson a baby? He reworded the whole statement. And is Conrad Murray`s documentary going to be called "How I Killed Michael Jackson"?
GRACE: Sandy in Louisiana, I really like the way you think. I want to go out to Danny Bonaduce, morning show host 102.5 KZOK, a friend of Michael Jackson. Danny, you`ve made no secret of the fact that you have overcome substance abuse. And when you see someone, like Sandy in Louisiana just pointed out, taking advantage of Jackson, who we all know to be an addict -- he was an addict, a junkie at the time of his death. And now he`s filming a documentary that says, Hey, I killed Michael Jackson, should that be the title -- how does that make you feel and what`s your reaction to people still milking Jackson for money?
DANNY BONADUCE, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: First off, please don`t think I am being flippant in any way -- and by the way, it`s a pleasure to be back. Thank you for having me. Please don`t think I am being flippant, but the jury literally is still out on whether this guy is a terrible doctor, but the jury is not out on him being a terrible agent. He`s the singular star of a documentary about "I Killed Michael Jackson," the payday should be $5 million, not a quarter of a million dollars! Who`s doing this guy`s agent work? This guy should be getting rich off of this, which he will, which disgusts me!
GRACE: Well, what he should be getting is four years behind bars, at the very least. In my mind, this should have been charged as a murder one.
We are in a verdict watch in the Michael Jackson homicide trial, and we are taking your calls. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, you`ve seen and heard all of the evidence in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is it. I mean, this is really it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson trusted Conrad Murray.
DR. CONRAD MURRAY, JACKSON`S PRIVATE DOCTOR: Then he complained, I got to sleep, Dr. Conrad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Poor Conrad Murray.
911 OPERATOR: Not conscious, he`s not breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he`s not breathing, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He trusted him with his life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael should be here with us!
MURRAY: Started immediately to perform CPR.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he should have called 911 sooner. I do not, however, think it would have made any difference in the outcome of this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think there is anticipation in the air.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be for Michael, be against Conrad Murray!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There could be that verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what if he`s a junkie? He did not deserve to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live at the L.A. courthouse and taking your calls. Back out to Jane Velez, standing at the courthouse. Jane, the timeline -- the timeline is what`s so upsetting to me, how long it took Conrad Murray to finally call 911. Go through it with me, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he exhibited many, many deviations from standard medical care. Some of them were gross or extreme. Certainly, not calling 911 when you find your patient in crisis is an extreme deviation from standard medical care. He also didn`t have the proper medical equipment. He was supposed to have complex EKG machines and much more sophisticated oxometers (ph) and all sorts of other material that he did not have there.
He did not have an assistant. So when he went to the bathroom, he essentially abandoned the patient. Abandoning the patient is another. Another extreme deviation, he lied to paramedics. And by the way, one of the jurors has a brother who`s an EMT.
He lied to the paramedics and didn`t tell them the drugs he had given Michael Jackson, never mentioned the word "propofol." They get to the hospital, he never tells the ER doctors that he gave Michael Jackson propofol. It is one thing after the other and after the other.
And as for the documentary, I can tell you that if I had a nickel for everybody who`s producing a documentary -- one guy out here shooting 60 hours of tape he hopes to sell to a network. Dr. Conrad Murray can have his buddy videotaping him. It`s not the same thing as having a deal with a network. They do not have a deal at this point.
GRACE: Also joining us outside the courthouse with Jane is Ryan Smith, host of "In Session" and HLN`s "Morning Express" correspondent. Ryan, thank you for braving the weather to be with us, along with Jane. OK, you have been in the courtroom every single day, Ryan. What`s the standout moment, and who does it help, state or defense?
RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION": Oh, the standout moment for me and I think in this case for a lot of people is Dr. Steven Shafer on that stand. He was on the stand for three days. But you know what he did? He got the prosecution`s theory out about how Michael Jackson died.
You know, Nancy, it`s a standard of care case. Did Dr. Murray do something that was criminally negligent or did he fail to do certain things in treating Michael Jackson who he had a legal duty to? But Dr. Shafer took on causation. That`s the defense`s theory. And he essentially said that slow IV drip -- that was what killed Michael Jackson. Right there, you got the jury in the jury room debating that, going through that. And if they believe it`s the slow IV drip, I don`t know how Dr. Murray will be found not guilty. Powerful (ph).
GRACE: Everybody, we are live at the L.A. courthouse. We have got a panel of legal brainiacs. Also with us, A.J. Hammer and Bethany Marshall taking your calls.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are on verdict watch.
JACKSON: I`ve never seen nothing like this in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He should be here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s Michael Jackson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He trusted him with his life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did not kill Michael Jackson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Conrad Murray guilty of involuntary manslaughter?
MURRAY: I am an innocent man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The jury clock, it keeps on ticking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice demands a guilty verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The jury in the Michael Jackson death trial has had the case now...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live, camped outside the L.A. courthouse, where a jury is deciding the fate of Dr. Conrad Murray, on trial in the death of superstar Michael Jackson. We are taking your calls.
Very quickly, to A.J. Hammer, host of HLN`s "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT." First of all, A.J., what kind of a perv would tape Michael Jackson secretly on this audio recording, and now he`s still milking the cow and trying to make a documentary which is really about Jackson`s death -- it seems to be about Conrad Murray -- but he`s still trying to make money off Jackson? And how`s the family going to respond, A.J.?
A.J. HAMMER, HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Well, the family`s not going to be happy with that at all, of course. And it`s going to be very interesting to see if Dr. Conrad Murray is even able to get an offer for this documentary that he`s reportedly filming. Will he even get a penny for it if he is acquitted?
Now, if he`s found guilty, that could be an entirely different story because, apparently, reportedly, the cameras are following him around. They`re following his every move. And they are supposed to be there when he receives the phone call from his attorneys letting him know it`s time to come back and hear his fate, and then catch his first reaction once his fate has been read.
I don`t think the family`s going to like it one bit, but they don`t like anything about this guy.
GRACE: You know what`s amazing -- to Jane Velez-Mitchell, standing outside the courthouse -- is that even now, Conrad Murray`s still trying to make money off Michael Jackson. And he`s paying so much attention to his documentary. Too bad he couldn`t pay that attention to Michael Jackson as he lay dying. How are the fans going to react to all this?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, they will be absolutely outraged as word spreads that Dr. Conrad Murray is allegedly trying to make a buck again, or more than a few bucks, off of his involvement with Michael Jackson by shooting this documentary. I`m sure most of them hope that he doesn`t get to sell it.
The truth is that the attraction of this case is on Michael Jackson. It has nothing to do with Conrad Murray. He`s not the charismatic figure here.
I can tell you these fans are organized. It`s been raining on and off all day. It hasn`t stopped them. And they represent people from around the world. I talked to a woman who has organized fans from around the world, including 15 planes that have flown in different days around the courthouse praising Michael Jackson and demanding justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: This is the final -- this is the final curtain call.
MURRAY: Your Honor, I am an innocent man.
JACKSON: Never seen anything like this in the world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re playing roulette with Michael Jackson`s life at that point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their theory is that Michael Jackson injected himself with propofol, causing his own death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want you to convict Doctor Murray for the actions of Michael Jackson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doctor Murray left the room and say he got up and took more pills and also injected more propofol.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he acted so recklessly with the life of Michael Jackson in his hands that it amounts to indifference to the very life of Michael Jackson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he appear to be dead?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He only wanted to sleep because he had problems with sleeping. Not to die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He died so quickly. He never even closed his eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now what this is fundamentally about is trust.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice shall prevail.
MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: I feel so much love. I felt it then. I`m so happy that that love is still there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We`re live in L.A. and taking your calls.
Joining us right now attorney for Michael Jackson`s other doctor, Doctor Arnold Klein, Garo Ghazarian.
Garo, thanks for being with us. What do you believe is the right decision in this case, guilty or not guilty and why?
GARO GHAZARIAN, DOCTOR ARNOLD KLEIN`S ATTORNEY: Well, the right decision is obviously guilty. I`m not sure that the jury will reach it. I hope they do. And the reason why is because the evidence is overwhelming and the defense argument essentially is suggesting that a passenger in a car driven by a drunk driver is responsible for a fatality that takes place in this case the fatality being the passenger`s own fatality. So I think it`s a no brainer.
GRACE: With us, Garo Ghazarian representing Doctor Arnold Klein. Also with us, Doctor Cathleen London, assistant physician and New York Presbyterian professor.
Doctor, thank you for being with us. Can you please explain what Jackson would have to do to self-administer this propofol in his knee?
DOCTOR CATHLEEN LONDON, ASSISTANT PHYSICIAN, NEW YORK PRESBYTERIAN PROFESSOR: Well, that the thing. So, he got a catheter inserted down in his leg. He has to somehow get up and get the syringe and reach down and insert it into that catheter which they just don`t kind of go in, you have to really get that in there. Then inject it and then somehow magically get rid of the syringe because it wasn`t there. It just makes no sense at all especially if he had already so much medication on board. There`s no way. No way.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers.
Joining us tonight, Peter Odom, Atlanta defense attorney. Also with us, Renee Rockwell veteran defense attorney as well.
Renee what do you do in the middle of a homicide trial when you find out that your client is still trying to milk the cow like Doctor Conrad Murray filming a documentary about himself, really about the Michael Jackson trial? I wish the jury knew that. Of course they won`t.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They may know. They may know that. What you hope, Nancy, if a hung jury, if there`s a hung jury you hope that these tapes and these admissions what they could possibly be later don`t bubble up to the top of the pool next time around if the trial service retried, the case retried.
GRACE: OK. Let me translate that. I think what Renee was trying to say is all the footage that they are recording right now could have some type of an admission in it that could be used at a later trial. Please don`t jinx it Renee with your mistrial wishes in your not guilty dreams.
ROCKWELL: I`m saying it`s a hung jury.
GRACE: I`m sure you do. OK, Peter Odom. Weigh in. What about it?
PETER ODOM, ATLANTA DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The motivation for him filming this, Nancy, is financial. I`ll grant you that but it`s because the state of California is trying to take away, first of all his freedom and his ability to make a living as a doctor for the rest of his life. This was a desperate man. He never got paid by Michael Jackson.
GRACE: He wants to make a living as a doctor.
ODOM: He`s got to buy groceries like everybody else.
GRACE: Go dig ditches for all I care. But it will be a cold day and you know where before this guy practices medicine again. Make money. Make money. He`s going to make a mint as it is. He`s probably got book deals lined up about the yin yang, Peter Odom.
ODOM: Well, maybe he does because he has to make some kind of a living after this is all over. This is self-preservation, Nancy. I completely understand it.
GRACE: I think you`re snide. You know what it might be OK with you. Maybe he does. But Bethany Marshall, it`s not OK with me to walk into somebody`s house, shoot them up in a knee where propofol is still pumping into their dead body and they make a quarter million dollars on some mockumentary and get a took deal? I don`t like it Bethany.
BETHANY MARSHAL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR, DEAL BREAKERS: No. you know what, if filming a documentary about yourself is a part of the same inherent grandiosity that led him to make the medical mistakes in the first place. And as far as I`m concerned, Conrad Murray and Michael Jackson made a pact with the devil with each other. And I see this with people all the time who act out something disastrous together that they pair up on the basis of mutual pathology both being out of control and operating outside of the systems of society.
GRACE: To the lines. Chris from California. Hi, dear what`s your question?
CHRIS, CALLER, CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Nancy for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling.
CHRIS: First, I want to say thank you so much for all you do. For women and children all over the world. God bless you for that.
GRACE: Thank you.
CHRIS: And I`m confused, Nancy about this propofol. They are saying that Michael gave himself the propofol that took his life. And I asked the doctor how come I woke up so fast. He told me he had to give me something to wake me up. So, how could it be possible that Michael Jackson could give himself the propofol that took his life too soon and why is Doctor Murray not being charged with premeditated murder? You taught me --
GRACE: Oh, Chris in California, I agree with you. It should have been a murder one charge with the syringe being the murder weapon. Jean Casarez, answer her question, please.
JEAN CASAREZ, IN SESSION LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: All right. There`s a syringe and Doctor Murray said he gave him 25 milligrams of propofol. A very small amount. Said he was trying to wean him off of it that lasted about 15 to 20 minutes. And so, after that he would be awake, he`s controllable, I can`t sleep, I got to sleep. He reached for it himself and put it in.
GRACE: Renee Rockwell, Peter Odom, we`re unleashing the lawyers. Go ahead. I don`t want to jinx it but I want to hear your final call. Guilty, not guilty, hung, Renee.
ROCKWELL: Hung jury.
GRACE: Why?
ROCKWELL: Well because, Nancy, it`s just going to take one to make this --
GRACE: That`s true in every case.
ROCKWELL: That`s right. And you got to factor in an L.A. jury. You think about one jury that might think they will have 15 minutes of glory if they are told out juror.
GRACE: OK. Hung. Peter Odom, weigh in.
ODOM: Hung jury or not guilty. Reason being --
GRACE: No, no, Peter you got to pick one. Pick one.
ODOM: Not guilty. This does not rise to the level of criminal negligence. Civil negligence maybe not criminal.
GRACE: I`m going with guilty.
Everybody, we`ll be right back.
But four years ago today a miracle. John David and little Lucy were born. It was a Sunday morning when we were rushed to the ER where I was told one of my twins, Lucy and I were dying. In emergency surgery, the twins were cut out. I was so weak I couldn`t sit up. I could only kiss my left index finger and put it on their foreheads before we were raced to two separate ICUs.
And now, because of your prayers the twins are 4 years old.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of these couples has the lowest combined total of judges` scores and viewer votes and will be eliminated tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy and Tristan, David and Kim on this seventh week of competition the couple with the lowest overall combined total and therefore leaving right now is --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We get two sets of scores this week and that`s extra stressful.
GRACE: We have to have really hard choreography to beat them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: David and Kim.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Good evening everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Season 13, "Dancing with the Stars".
Tonight an all-star cast of stars taking your calls, contestants, pro dancers and we`re all here together.
First I want to go straight out to a very special couple, Chaz Bono and Lacey Schwimmer. Now, I`ve told Tristan very often when I threaten to ditch him for a new partner if I could have had anybody it would have been Lacey Schwimmer. All right first of all to you.
TRISTAN MACMANUS, NANCY GRACE`S PARTNER, DANCING WITH THE STARS SEASON 13: I said the same.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Chaz, first of all to you. You`ve been all over the place. Since you were booted off "Dancing with the Stars". I want you to tell me what was it like when you went down those steps and you heard your name called out?
CHAZ BONO, CONTESTANT, DANCING WITH THE STARS SEASON 13: It`s not fun. I mean it`s not what you want to hear. So, but you know, I had to look -- I had a good run. I had a great time. I left with -- I had so many gift from doing the show. So, it was my time. But I wish I could have hung around to hang without you more, Nancy.
GRACE: And also to you, Lacey Schwimmer, when you went down after all that hard work and p.s. I thought your phantom of the opera dance was your very best. I disagreed with the judges. When you went down to the bottom what was that like?
You were standing there with Chaz. We were all watching you. Everybody had their fingers and toes crossed. What was that like?
LACEY SCHWIMMER, PROFESSIONAL DANCER, DANCING WITH THE STARS: You know it`s always nerve-racking but at the same time we enjoyed every minute on this show. So, you know, to go out with a bang and with all the friend that we made it was, you know, it`s just been great. You got to take it.
BONO: And I was glad I thought it was a good dance too. I was really happy to go out with a dance that at least I felt I did well.
SCHWIMMER: Yes.
GRACE: You know there`s a lot of controversy, Chaz, when you and your mom Cher were angry about the way some of the comments the judges had made to you. Explain.
BONO: Well, you know, it`s hard. It seems so long ago but I felt -- it really does.
GRACE: Yes. It was two weeks.
BONO: I know. There was so much good that did come out of the show. I felt like a lot of times Bruno made comments about me physically that had nothing to do with my dancing and I would have much rather have been critiqued on my actual dancing versus how I look.
GRACE: You know, every time everybody, I would see Lacey at dance rehearsals she would have one foot behind an ear. She walks around like that. I`ve never seen anybody but my little girl Lucy did.
She walks now one on ground and one up here. Say hi Nancy. That`s your foot by your ear.
(LAUGHTER)
Everybody, we`re taking your calls. Out to Debbie in Georgia. Hi, Debbie, what`s your question?
DEBBIE, CALLER, GEORGIA: Hi, Nancy and Tristan. How do you get so much done in 24 hours every week? I panic until I know you and Tristan are safe. I think I have the meltdown as badly as do you. I think I`m your biggest fan. And Tristan, you all dance so beautifully together. You`re my hero, Nancy.
GRACE: You know what Debbie in Georgia, I really appreciate that. I got to tell you, Tristan is the one that got the nine a few weeks ago, time one that got the seven. He goes everything he can to make me look good from the choreography to out on the dance floor. I got to tell you, that clip they are showing right now I had totally gone blank. He was just kind a like dragging me along. I know it doesn`t look like right there, blank.
But, Debbie, you`re probably a working mom and you probably get just as much done in a different way. If I didn`t have Tristan barking out one, two, three, four in my ear I would not be dancing seven or eight hours a day I can guarantee you that. So, I kind of have a personal trainer.
Everybody, we`re taking your calls but joining me right now is another special guest, Holly Madison.
Now we`ve all seen photos of Holly. She has been in every magazine and recently there was a picture of -- Holly your with me? There you are. Holly, you`re getting your ear put in.
Hi. Can you hear me yet?
HOLLY MADISON, CONTESTANT, DANCING WITH THE STARS: How are you?
GRACE: You know I`m great. And I want to tell you you`re gorgeous and you`re a great dancer. Lately, I`ve read in a couple of magazines that you have gained weight. And I noticed they waited for to you bend over and pick something up off the floor and there was like an eighth of an inch of your tummy and so that`s the big story.
Now, since "Dancing with the Stars", no matter what you do, no matter if you`re at the grocery store, if you`re out, you know, at a park, they always have photos of you. Does that bug you, Holly Madison?
MADISON: Not really. I have a sense of humor about it. I just think it`s funny. You know it comes with the territory of being on TV. So, it`s just kind of amusing, I think.
GRACE: And, remember, Holly Madison is the star of peak show, "Planet Hollywood" and "Holly`s World" on E! Well, you know what, I was completely disgusted when I saw that one eight of an inch`s scan. You really got to do something about that.
What do you up to now, 98, 99 pounds?
MADISON: Yes. Trying to tuck in my stomach, keep it in my pants.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: OK. Back out to the lines. Kimberly in Virginia. Hi, Kimberly. What`s your question?
KIMBERLY, CALLER, VIRGINIA: I just want to say first I love you on "Dancing with the Stars". And my question is for Chaz.
I thought you did an amazing job. I want to see you and Nancy in the final two. How did you feel when the judges gave you these, I think, horrible things to you. Did it make you want to go out there and say I`ll show you or make you want to I don`t know if I want to do this anymore?
BONO: No. I mean I love doing it. It was -- you know like we had such a good time and I loved doing the show and I wish I could have done it you know longer. And the judge`s scores you know and comments can be frustrating at time --
SCHWIMMER: But I also think it`s pushes you too
BONO: Yes. It pushes you to do your best too.
GRACE: Right now, CNN heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE LOPEZ, ACTOR: I`m George Lopez. Two years ago I had an honor of presenting CNN heroes an all start preview. As founder Lopez foundation I`m committed to helping underprivileged children, adults and military families. I`m also committed to increase an awareness about kidney disease and organ donation.
I`m thrilled to help introduce one of the top ten CNN heroes for 2011.
SAM DIMICELI, CNN HEROES: When I go through suburb America where the small towns, everybody is trying to hold up their head with pride.
I know it is tough in the recession.
These people behind closed doors tell the neighbors they`re fine. They go in the house and start.
How much you`re bill right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gas bill, I owe about $800.
DIMICELI: I find the situation is getting worse. They need food. They need help with the utilities. I mean, this is 2011 in America. We should be helping each other.
I`m Sal Dimiceli. My mission is to help those that have fallen on hard times.
Here is $100 for gas. I help with necessities and daily like and at the same time get them together to do a budget so they can continue to survive. I want them to feel free.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m so happy.
CROWD: Thank you.
DIMICELI: I want them to feel the compassion that we`re trying to share, to wrap our arms around them and say come on I have extra strength I want to share with you, let`s get you back on your feet.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. The next couple safe is Nancy and Tristan!
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy and Tristan. You`re safe!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live with an all-star lineup from "Dancing with the Stars" and we are taking your calls.
I`m going back to Kim Johnson, professional dancer, paired with David Arquette, the big movie star.
Kym, what was your favorite thing about Arquette?
KYM JOHNSON, PROFESSIONAL DANCER, DANCING WITH THE STARS (via telephone): His personality. He came into the show. He was very, very nervous and insecure. He didn`t really, even his posture. He would stand with shoulders over. I said to him one time, why don`t you stand up straight. And he said I walk around in my everyday life guarding my head and my heart.
And I just like so like would you lay my heart, this was a personal goal for him as well, even standing up straight and accepting the love. He is such a really beautiful, sweet person and the show is more than learning how to dance for him.
GRACE: You know, we`re showing you right now, and it is absolutely beautiful. I remember every one of your dances. Kym, you have won the mirror ball trophy I think twice. I know last time with Hines ward. How hard is it working with a professional athlete?
JOHNSON: The athletes are amazing because they know what it takes to win. And Hines was amazing, he was very athletic, and picked things up very quick. He had a great mentality as well for it, but everybody that I`ve had I have been so lucky with all the celebrities that come on and take part in the show. I`ve been lucky with everyone I`ve had.
GRACE: With us, Kym Johnson.
Let`s remember Army Staff Sergeant Michael Schaefer, 25, Springfield, killed in Afghanistan. Awarded Bronze start, silver star, Nation`s third highest award for combat valor, also served in Iraq.
Loved basketball, hiking, leaves behind parents Karen and Dan that raised him, biological dad Mark. Brothers Tim and sisters Sarah, Widow Danielle, son Devon.
Michael Shafer, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
