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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Conrad Murray Found Guilty
Aired November 07, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, this is it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury in the above-entitled action, find the defendant, Conrad Robert Murray, guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Jackson`s doctor, cuffed and taken into police custody, where he will remain, quite possibly for up to four years.
Outside court, the crowd erupted with cheers and tears and prayers, and one woman even fainted, along with a few boos, as word spread like wildfire, that Dr. Conrad Murray had been found guilty. We`re going to tell you all about the Jacksons` reaction. And we are taking your calls.
ISSUES starts now.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury in the above-entitled action, find the defendant, Conrad Robert Murray, guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael can really rest in peace now. We love him so much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Individual and personal verdict, juror one?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror two.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror three?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror four?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror five?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror six?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror seven?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror eight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror nine?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror ten?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror number 11.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 12.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m so happy. I just thank God that we have justice today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are so happy that Murray finally got handcuffs on him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Justice has been served. I don`t even know what to say. I`m just so thankful, and it`s just such a release of emotions. The man needed to go to jail, and he`s on his way. Yes! Yes! Yes!
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Decision day, the hour of truth has finally arrived here in Los Angeles. And the decision: guilty. A jury finds Michael Jackson`s doctor guilty of involuntary manslaughter in the superstar`s death. I was right there, with all the fans, outside the courtroom. And they erupted in cheers. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are so happy that Murray finally got handcuffs on him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just got cuffed. Thank you. Justice has been served. I don`t even know what to say. I`m just so thankful. And it`s just such a release of emotions. The man needed to go to jail, and he`s on his way. Yes! Yes! Yes!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from right outside the courthouse. Finally, justice has arrived for Michael Jackson. Fans cheered. Fans sobbed. I even saw one fan fainting as the verdict was read. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury in the above-entitled action, find the defendant, Conrad Robert Murray, guilty of crime of involuntary manslaughter, in violation of penal code section 192 subsection b.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: And look at the dramatic reaction outside court. It was overwhelming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give her some air.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Stay here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t believe it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now that woman -- I was right there -- she fainted, and literally, she collapsed to the ground as she heard the word "guilty," and she had to be taken away in ambulance. People were overcome.
It took ten hours, seven minutes, 39 seconds for this jury to reach its unanimous decision. That`s almost the same time it took the Casey Anthony jury to acquit her on all serious counts. But here, the opposite verdict. Dr. Conrad Murray, guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
And when it was announced, justice came swiftly, as the judge immediately sent Conrad Murray to jail. Watch this incredible scene in court.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I conclude that remand is appropriate. Dr. Murray is remanded to the custody of the Los Angeles sheriff with no bail. And in the interim, he is to be kept in the care and custody of the sheriff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s right. Dr. Conrad Murray was immediately handcuffed, and seeing him in handcuffs was just a huge comfort to the Michael Jackson fans and also to Michael Jackson`s family. Listen to what La Toya and Jermaine told me as they walked out of court after the verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LA TOYA JACKSON, MICHAEL`S SISTER: Thank you, America. Thank all the fans. Thank you, prosecuting team Walgren. You were great. Everybody was wonderful. I just want to thank you. And Jane, I love you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What would you stay Michael if you could say something to him?
LA TOYA: I`m going to say something. Michael loves everybody out here. I love him. We all love him. And guess what? He was in that courtroom, and that`s why victory was here.
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL`S BROTHER: Justice -- justice was served, yes.
It wasn`t enough time, though.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What would you say to Michael?
J. JACKSON: Michael -- Michael is with us. Michael is with us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Has justice been served? What do you think? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. We have an incredible panel of experts joining me tonight, and we are filled to capacity with brilliant legal and medical minds.
And I`m delighted to have two prosecutors onset with me. The famous Marcia Clark, famous, of course, for prosecuting O.J. Simpson all those many years ago. And I believe you did a fantastic job. But it was in the very same courthouse, and it had a different outcome. So I ask you, how important is this guilty verdict for prosecutors all across the country?
MARCIA CLARK, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Oh, it`s important. It is a wonderful verdict. I have it say, it`s delightful to be here and to be talking finally about a guilty verdict. I don`t know how long it`s been since I had a chance to do that. And it`s wonderful.
I mean, the case is fully justified, and the evidence was all there. I thought it was -- it`s a great verdict. The prosecution did a beautiful job. And you know, I can`t say the defense did a bad job either. They just don`t have any cards to play. You`ve got to play the hand you`re dealt. So, you know, justice was served.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and I have to say this. After the verdict, the Los Angeles district attorney said what I`ve basically been saying throughout the trial, that this verdict is about the prescription drug abuse epidemic in this country, and it`s about addiction. Listen to this.
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STEVE COOLEY, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, LOS ANGELES COUNTY: This is a very strong and powerful message that this sort of conduct does rise to the level of criminal negligence, and to the extent that someone dies as a result of them playing the role as Dr. Feelgood, they will be held accountable. Unfortunately, prescriptions, prescribed medications, is the No. 1 cause of death in the United States of America.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: And so this is a huge wake-up call for doctors everywhere who have loose fingers with writing prescriptions for drugs that people don`t need, who know that they`re going to have a great patient, a patient that`s going to come back religiously if they give them the drugs that the patient wants.
And it`s a huge warning to doctors to learn to say no; to say no when somebody asks you for something inappropriate.
Brian Oxman, you`re the attorney for Joe Jackson, the victim`s father. Your reaction to the guilty verdict?
BRIAN OXMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOE JACKSON: I think that the family is very, very pleased by this result, Jane. And there`s no question about it that Conrad Murray bears responsibility. But I`m kind of left empty by the verdict. It doesn`t bring Michael back. And that`s really what it is. My thoughts when I heard that guilty verdict were for Prince, Prince and Prince Michael II, who we call Blanket. Their dad is gone, and while we have a verdict, and it certainly was warranted, I was thinking about them and that their dad just isn`t here any more.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, right after the verdict, the Michael Jackson fans, I was right there with them, in the crush of humanity all day. They were ecstatic that Conrad Murray was cuffed immediately. Many had said, no, that won`t happen. He`s going to go out on bond. He`s going to be out there making his documentary, doing whatever. No, he was cuffed and taken away. He is behind bars as we speak. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are so happy that Murray finally got handcuffs on him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just got cuffed. Thank you. Justice has been served. I don`t even know what to say. I`m just so thankful. And it`s just such a release of emotions. The man needed to go to jail, and he`s on his way. Yes! Yes! Yes!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go out to the phone lines that are lighting up. Lenora, Maryland, your question or thought, Lenora?
CALLER: Hi. I think that he should immediately file for ineffective counsel. I have never, ever, ever seen a defense team like this. How do you not prep your witnesses before you go to court? These attorneys were asking questions of their witnesses and had no clue what their witnesses were going to say.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we`ve got former L.A. deputy D.A., very good point, what do you make of the caller`s point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s actually a very good point. I think he has a huge issue on appeal here. Because let`s not forget, Ed Chernoff was not licensed to practice law in the state of California when he agreed to have the interview with the police and Conrad Murray two days after Michael Jackson died.
So, certainly, on appeal, Conrad Murray can argue that he received ineffectiveness assistance of council, because his own attorney was not licensed to practice law and he relied on the advice of his attorney to speak to police. And the prosecution made that tape central to the prosecution, and I think it was very important for the guilty verdict.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you`re talking about how two days after Michael Jackson died, Dr. Conrad Murray went with Ed Chernoff and another attorney to the Ritz Carlton in Marina Del Ray and sat down and talked to cops. And that`s one of the reasons why he was put on trial. Because what he told them curled their hair. He was talking about giving Michael Jackson Propofol every night in the superstar`s mansion for sleep.
But my gosh, Marcia Clark, I`m a little concerned now that this isn`t over. Do you think he has an appealable issue?
CLARK: No. No. I mean, I practice criminal appeals now. That`s what I specialize in is appellate law. It`s very, very hard to get a conviction overturned. And of course, they`ll make the argument that Hamid did. I`m sure they did. But getting it overturned on the grounds of ineffective assistance almost never happens.
And what the court will likely say is that, regardless, No. 1, we don`t know it`s so ineffective to talk to the police. They were going to talk to him, and it could have gone other way. But basically, they were going to convict him, no matter what. It didn`t matter whether they had the statement or not. And I think that`s the way the court wanted it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ve been outside the courtroom with Michael Jackson`s supporters and fans for, my gosh, a long time. Since the beginning of the trial, 22 days of testimony. And I`ve kind of become friends with those folks.
Let me tell you, the courtroom was not the only place that sparks flew during this trial. HLNTV.com has some of the most heated moments from outside the courthouse. Check it out, HLNTV.com.
And an the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to fans. We`re going to talk to people who have been in the thick of it from the start. And we`re going to talk to a New York anesthesiologist.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I conclude that remand is appropriate. Dr. Murray is remanded to the custody of the Los Angeles sheriff with no bail. And in the interim he is to be kept in the care and custody of the sheriff and ordered to appear for further proceedings and formal probation and sentencing on 29 November, 2011 at 8:30 a.m. in this department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The verdict is in in the Conrad Murray case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is it. This is it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is it. This is it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The Michael Jackson supporters here. We have got the Conrad Murray supporters here, and they continuously get into debates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conrad, Conrad, Conrad, Conrad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole justice for M.J., the whole world is watching.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): I`m talking with the man in the mirror. I`m asking him to change his ways
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why are you crying?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because Michael Jackson didn`t deserve to die. He should be here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m very nervous. It`s been a long time coming. We need justice for Michael.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice! Justice! Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Walgren, Walgren, Walgren! Walgren, Walgren, Walgren! Walgren, Walgren, Walgren!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Walgren, Walgren, Walgren! Walgren, Walgren, Walgren! Walgren, Walgren, Walgren!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Walgren, Walgren, Walgren! Walgren, Walgren, Walgren! Walgren, Walgren, Walgren!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They are chanting "Walgren, Walgren, Walgren," the last time of the lead prosecutor of this case, David Walgren.
So again, Marcia Clark over here, she`s just grinning from ear to ear. Seeing prosecutors, instead of being raked over the coals the way as they usually are, being celebrated and chanted about. It is a good day for the prosecutors here and probably all over the country, because it`s very hard to convict in any kind of high-profile cases, it seems.
Now, these juror were taking pages and pages of notes during the trial. And I`ve got to tell you: it`s actually fascinating stuff. We`ve got the same information on HLNTV.com. You can dig deep into the Michael Jackson case. The autopsy file, a whole lot more. You can be a top expert just like our panel is here.
I want to bring in Tanya Young Williams, legal analyst and also the estranged wife of Jason Williams. And you experienced his trial for manslaughter, a different kind of manslaughter. But still, you`ve experienced this from the inside.
I talked to Najia (ph) Lee, who is a community activist in the African-American community. I`ve covered many stories with him. And he said this is a bittersweet day. He felt the verdict was just, but he said it was sad to see another black man go to jail and that he found absolutely no joy in it.
What is your reaction, as a legal analyst, as the estranged wife of Jason Williams and as an African-American?
TANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, LEGAL ANALYST: Well, as an African-American, I think that we`ve risen above thinking that someone should or should not go to jail based on race. I think that most people are happy that the jury has come to a decision, and if the jurors decided he is guilty, then the defendant, Dr. Conrad Murray, needs to go to jail.
As a wife of someone who has been there, I know what it`s like to sit through verdict watch, and I know how anxious you are. And you continually try -- try to feed yourself the most positive affirmations as you`re waiting there. But the problem with this is Dr. Conrad Murray had to understand, as well as lawyer, the jurors didn`t take long enough and there, you must assume it`s a guilty verdict.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And finally, the assumptions -- usually, it`s the exact opposite of what everybody predicts for weeks on end. That`s why I don`t -- I never predict. But in this case, the pundits were right.
Let me go to the phone lines very quickly. Diana, Ohio. Your question or thought, Diana.
CALLER: Hi, Jane. You`ve done a great job out there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: I`m glad to see you`re back inside.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Me, too.
CALLER: But I don`t think Conrad did it, and the reaction of the public is so rash. I mean, he`s really treating -- they`re treating him like a villain. He has a family and mom in that courtroom, too. And I`m worried for Conrad Murray`s life.
When I saw his face, Jane, it just worried me. My mom was addicted to alcohol, and she took her own life. And I really hope that Murray doesn`t have that consequence also because of the reaction of the public.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, Diana, you raise some good points. Let`s go to Jean Casarez, who is inside the courtroom. There you have a caller expressing sympathy for Dr. Conrad Murray`s mother. What do you know? What did you see, Jean?
JEAN CASAREZ, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Inside the courtroom, well, in general inside the courtroom, it was stoic silence before that jury verdict was read.
You know, when I watch the jury enter, I always look to see who they are looking at. None of them looked at Conrad Murray. Absolutely none of them. I knew what the verdict was going to be, based upon this jury.
They looked at the alternates, though, because they hadn`t seen them, and they smiled at the alternates. I saw one alternate hanging her head. Jane, she seemed very sad that she hadn`t been able to deliberate in this case.
But when the verdict rang out, that guilty, La Toya couldn`t contain herself, and although the judge had admonished everybody to stay quiet, she just shrieked. But Katherine very quietly just took her Kleenex and started crying tears of justice, they would say. And Randy had his arm around his mother and was just consoling her the whole time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I heard that Dr. Conrad Murray`s clothing was given to his family, because he is going to be in a prison outfit. And he is behind bars right now, as we speak.
More on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re handcuffing him. He`s going to jail. Justice has been served, finally. Woo!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give her some air. Give her some air.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t believe it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I was right there as that fan collapsed as the word "guilty" was chanted, as the people outside court found out that Dr. Conrad Murray had been found guilty in the involuntary manslaughter case against him.
I want to go to Dr. Nat Strand, anesthesiologist. A lot of this case was about anesthesia, the improper use of Propofol, which is a surgical knock-out drug that is supposed to be used only in surgery. What did you take away from the guilty verdict in terms of how it`s going to impact the medical profession?
DR. NAT STRAND, ANESTHESIOLOGIST: Well, first of all, let me just say, that I think the guilty verdict was absolutely the right verdict. I think this case is sad in a lot of ways, but one could not escape the fact that Dr. Murray acted so far below the standard of car. His behavior really was reckless.
So I think this sends a good message to the medical community that we do owe our patients that relationship of trust, that we owe them to be in control of ourselves. We owe them to be informed and prudent and educated and in control.
I think here Dr. Murray wasn`t in control. He was intoxicated by Michael Jackson`s fame and by the money, and he made poor decisions.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marcia Clark, do you think doctors who are loose with the scripts are going to be nervous tonight about what they can do and get away with?
CLARK: Oh, I think so. I do think that if there`s one thing this that this case achieved, it is putting those doctors on notice: watch out. But as I was telling you during break, I wish I had a doctor like that. Mine won`t give me aspirin. So I don`t know who these doctors are...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you...
CLARK: ... but the doctors that do accommodate celebrities...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They`re out there. I`ve talked to them. As a person of recovery, I`ve talked to a lot of people who are my friends in recovery who have doctor shopped, and they are out there. You are going to good doctors. But there are doctors out there who want patients who will, Brian Oxman, come back over and over again. And what`s the easiest way to get a patient to come back? Get them hooked on a narcotic painkiller.
OXMAN: Oh, my goodness. Oh, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian?
OXMAN: Oh, yes. It`s Beverly Hills, Beverly pills. Because in Beverly Hills, it`s a pill mill. And you`ve got doctors who just give these medications over and over again.
And you know something, Jane? The prescription medications are so available to people, they are just -- it`s a flood. It`s an epidemic. And if we can remember one thing, in the Anna Nicole Smith case, people said, the doctors are going to learn. After about a month or two, they shrugged their shoulders: "We forgot."
I hope that, in the Michael Jackson case, we do not forget. If there`s one legacy of this case, I hope it is, don`t forget that these pills kill. And that Michael Jackson died unnecessarily.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it`s not just superstars. I mean, that`s the thing, Tanya. It`s all over the country. As the D.A. said, it`s a leading cause of death, beyond car accidents in some states. We`ve got four seconds. But just your reaction to that aspect.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Drug use and drug abuse is rampant, and this should put doctors on notice that we`re not going to allow these type of deaths to come upon us again.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side, fans.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was Michael Jackson savable when Dr. Murray found him? Is that what you are asking me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounds like he had substance abuse problems and you`re providing this environment where drugs are readily available. That is a definitely a foreseeable complication.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. When you give Propofol, you have to always assess the sedation level and you do not leave a patient unmonitored. It is like leaving a baby that is sleeping on your kitchen counter top.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Extreme is when this is just something that we just would never expect to see.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In either scenario, Conrad Murray played a direct role in causing Michael Jackson`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would I talk on the phone, I would wake Mr. Jackson up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would it be strange for Dr. Murray to call you in the event of emergency at the house?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. If Mr. Jackson is dying, it would.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It makes logical sense to call 911. He doesn`t have any of the appropriate equipment. Any help. He needs to get help. You call 911 first. Because he obviously -- waiting didn`t work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Conrad Murray, guilty of involuntary manslaughter in the death of the king of pop, Michael Jackson. Moments after the jury announce id their verdict, Dr. Murray was handcuffed and hauled off to jail where he will stay until sentencing day, which is November 29th.
Jackson family members and fans praised the prosecution for putting on a stellar case and this was their star witness, Dr. Steinberg.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ALON STEINBERG, PROSECUTION`S WITNESS: When you monitor a patient, you never leave their side, especially after giving Propofol. It is like leaving a baby that`s sleeping on the kitchen counter top.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joining me now in an ISSUES exclusive is that star witness for the prosecution, cardiologist, Dr. Steinberg. Dr. Steinberg, this is the first time you are talking about this case, about this extraordinary trial, about your testimony, that most people conclude is what put Dr. Murray away. Because you took extremely complicated medical testimony and you boiled it down to people terms that the jury and by extension, those watching at home, could understand.
Your reaction, first of all, to this verdict.
STEINBERG: Well, I think the jury decided the right thing and the proper thing. I`m happy that my testimony helped out in convicting Dr. Murray.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think this says to the Doctor "Feel- Goods" of the world; the ones who are doing medicine as a money-making enterprise as opposed to a calling?
STEINBERG: I think most doctors are doing it for a calling. I think that`s a rare doctor, what Conrad Murray does. I review a lot of cases for the Board of California. I`ve never seen such extreme deviation from the standard of care.
But I think it is actually a win for patient safety but also a win for doctors. It just takes us -- puts us on notice that we need to practice within the right boundaries of medicine.
And it has already helped me in practice. Sometimes, just as you said, patients get medications from multiple doctors. I`m a cardiologist but sometimes patients say, "Hey, I ran out of Ambien and I don`t have a follow up with my primary for a while and back hurts. I need some Percocet."
And this gives me some ammunition so you know when you really need to seek a specialist and that part of your medical care.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael`s dermatologist, Dr. Arnie Klein believes that Michael Jackson was totally addicted to Propofol, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ARNOLD KLEIN, MICHAEL JACKSON`S DERMATOLOGIST: He had problems with Propofol many times. I intervened and I told him it was terribly dangerous and he just had to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If anyone at home wants to see more of Dr. Klein`s exclusive interview -- and I`m not choked up for his interview, believe you me -- but you can you go to hlntv.com.
Dr. Arnie Klein said that he thought Michael Jackson was totally addicted to Propofol. That he had tried to do three interventions. Dr. Steinberg, that means that other doctors out there were giving Michael Jackson Propofol, that Dr. Conrad Murray wasn`t the only one. Does that horrify you?
STEINBERG: It is really scary. And part of that probably set up why Dr. Murray used it because Michael Jackson knew so much about it. He said all these other doctors gave it. It is not a big deal. And it probably helped convince Dr. Murray to do it also.
In fact, in his testimony, there was another doctor that basically showed and taught Conrad Murray about how to give it overnight and used his office initially. Then Conrad Murray more or less learned how to do it and continued to do it thinking it is not a big deal because all these other doctors did it.
But as my mother said, just because everyone is jumping off the bridge, you should.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But does it scare you? I`m kind of scared that there are doctors out there, not just one, but more of them, administering Propofol.
STEINBERG: I don`t think so. I think this is a very, very unique situation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, no, hold on. If somebody is doing three interventions on Propofol, that means that doctors, more than one doctor, is giving Michael Jackson Propofol for the wrong reasons, as a sleep aid. And he is getting this at different times. So it is different doctors.
STEINBERG: You can pay a lot of money --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does it scare you?
STEINBERG: You know what, I`m out there. I see physicians in my community. I review cases for the board. I`ve never heard of a case like this. This is really egregious. I want to assure you that most doctors, all doctors almost, are moral and have a high standard of ethical care.
This was just an extremely unusual case. I want to reassure you that I don`t think that will happen. But you know, in any profession there are some outliers and money and fame can sometimes buy anybody.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What was your most nerve-racking moment on the stand?
STEINBERG: I didn`t have too much of -- I prepared for direct examination with David Walgren. And I prepared for the cross. There wasn`t a question that came at me that I didn`t know was going to come at me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you weren`t nervous?
STEINBERG: I was very nervous before I came in. But I just thought of myself on a beach and laying around and I walked in. And I knew most of the questions that were going to come at me, at least initially. So once I got a few questions out, I was very relaxed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, let`s listen to what defense attorney Ed Chernoff said during closing arguments, about some of the things that you said, Dr. Steinberg. Check this out.
STEINBERG: Oh yes. Oh, yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED CHERNOFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CONRAD MURRAY: What is the most insulting possible thing you can say about Michael Jackson? As if this fully-formed 50-year-old man was just a baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You heard Ed Chernoff there.
STEINBERG: Yes. He took it out of context. What I was trying to show is that he was almost like a baby, like he was in a complete utter no control, you know, because he was under the influence of Propofol. It was like leaving a baby on a table. I didn`t mean to call him, like he was not an adult. I just meant, that under Dr. Murray`s care, it is like a parent to a small child and leaving him on a table is like leaving a guy on Propofol and going to the bathroom a few minutes is like the chance you will leave your baby there and they`re going to be sleeping and he may fall off.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Were you shocked when you heard what Dr. Conrad Murray had done by his own admission?
STEINBERG: It was amazing. When initially I got the case, I got a lot of information. I got the phone calls and the ambulance report and the doctor`s report and the interviews. But the only thing I did on my report is actually look at the interview that he did with the detectives a couple of days afterwards. When I read that I said, "All the information is right there in his own words." And all I did in my report is just on that testimony, or investigation, and that was enough.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Were you shocked by what he did?
STEINBERG: I was really shocked. I couldn`t believe it. I was sometimes a little embarrassed that a physician would do that because it makes physicians look bad. But it was just unbelievable.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of all the things he did, what was the most shocking thing that he did, in your opinion?
STEINBERG: You know what; the most shocking thing, I think, is just not calling 911. I mean holy cow -- that`s just the basics. When you don`t have any help at all and you are in someone`s home and you know that you don`t have the proper equipment and you are not monitored, that he`s going to be in trouble if you don`t get him intubated, on a respirator. You have to call 911 immediately and get help.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think if Dr. Murray had called 911 immediately, Michael Jackson might still be alive?
STEINBERG: There were a lot of things -- yes. One, if he would have called 911 immediately, they were only four minutes away, he had just found -- he at least states he was only gone for about two minutes. The EMS would have gotten there and probably resuscitated him because he found him with blood pressure and he just stopped breathing.
When we put people to sleep all the time, people sometimes stop breathing and we are able to resuscitate them. But if we can`t do it, we have a call button that calls people immediately to come and help us. He is in someone`s home. He needs to call 911 immediately.
But there`s a lot of things Jane, also if he would never have given Propofol, never provided it, Mr. Jackson would be alive also. If he would have had any monitoring, would not have left his side, or had an assistant, he would be still be alive. If he had the proper equipment there or some drugs he would be alive.
If he would have even responded to the resuscitation himself, before he even called 911, he tried to revive him by using mouth to mouth. We don`t use mouth to mouth when we have bag mask. We use oxygen with the ambu-bag and we try and push the oxygen into a patient to increase their breathing. You know, he didn`t do that.
He started doing chest compressions on someone who had a circulation. He had a pulse. On the pulse oximeter, there was a heart rate. He was nice and warm when he found him. The fact that he started doing chest compressions was a complete waste of time and counterproductive.
So there were so many things that just one -- each one of those things I feel Michael Jackson could have still been alive.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. So really, he could have been here today if he had done any of those things.
STEINBERG: Absolutely. One, providing Propofol was horrible and his actions were just inappropriate. He panicked.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you so much for joining us. Dr. Steinberg, so, so delighted to speak to you.
STEINBERG: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There you go, first time, Dr. Steinberg is speaking.
Supporters sounded off outside court today. What did you think about the guilty verdict? Give us a call. We`re taking them. 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We waited for over two years for this and we all just want justice for Michael so bad; so, so bad.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice. Justice was served yes. It wasn`t enough time though.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What would you say for Michael?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael is with us. Michael is with us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have Michael Jackson supporters here. We have Murray supporters here and they (INAUDIBLE) get into debates.
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We waited for over two years for this and we all just want justice for Michael so bad; so, so bad. And everybody is just so emotional right now.
LATOYA JACKSON, SISTER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Thank you, America. Thank all the fans. Thank the prosecuting team Walgren. You were great. Everybody was wonderful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: An explosion, a roller coaster of emotion outside court today for the Conrad Murray verdict in the Michael Jackson death trial. Listen and watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give her some air. Give her some air.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t believe it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That woman fainted; had to be taken away by ambulance. Some of these fans have been outside court day after day after day for the past six weeks. I know, because I was there too. I was out there all day.
It was a crush of humanity; people singing, crying, praying, hugging. Watch this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For you and for me, there are people dying, if you care enough for the living.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But things weren`t always so peaceful. It got very heat between the two sides -- very heated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, right, right, right. Put your hands on me. Violence. Violence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Violence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are taking your calls on this; 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1- 877-586-7297. Joining me now are fans on both sides of the fence here; we are delighted to have Aaron Jacobs, justice for MJ and Willie Hampton, a friend and supporter for Dr. Conrad Murray.
We have been hearing from prosecutors and all sort of supporters of Michael Jackson, so I think I`m going to start with you Willie. You were crying -- you were crying as the verdict was read, why?
WILLIE HAMPTON, SUPPORTER OF CONRAD MURRAY: Well, first of all, this is not justice. The real murderer of Mr. Michael Jackson is somewhere out dining in Beverly Hills, Hollywood. The murderer is free. Dr. Conrad Murray did not murder his friend and patient, Mr. Michael Jackson.
Somebody was hiding in that house. I want Conrad to file for a motion for a new trial immediately and also appeal at a later time for any effective assistance of counsel on the grounds that information about a third party presence was not used.
A fingerprint on the syringe bag, a slashed syringe bag, and missing bottle of Propofol and a missing surveillance tape; that indicates to me that somebody else was in the house and got out with that surveillance tape. That`s the murderer. Dr. Murray did not kill his friend.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So essentially, you are saying that there was a conspiracy among all the people that were there?
HAMPTON: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the security and --
HAMPTON: No, no, I`m just saying that there was --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- and the prosecutor`s office. Every conspired against Conrad Murray? Is that what you are saying?
HAMPTON: I`m just saying --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me bring Erin Jacobs in. Ok, you said your side. What do you have to say about what Willie is saying here?
ERIN JACOBS, JUSTICEFORMJ.COM: Poor Conrad Murray is going to jail today. Everybody else is to blame but Conrad Murray. Negative. A jury in Los Angeles today said otherwise.
HAMPTON: Right.
JACOBS: And he can go on and on about the conspiracy, and that Murray didn`t do it. But you know what? I think your friend is in prison right now where he belongs for killing Michael Jackson.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Willie?
HAMPTON: Objection. Jane, objection. This is not fair. This is not lady justice. This is a lynch mob. They just want somebody to fall for Michael Jackson`s death. If they love Michael Jackson so much they could have got him help with Betty Ford`s clinic. They could have taken him to Indiana, retired to Indiana. Indiana would have loved to take Michael back and got him off of drugs.
Hollywood killed Michael Jackson. Hollywood framed Conrad Murray. Dr. Murray is innocent. He`s going to have to appeal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side, reaction from Erin and we`re talking your calls.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: The crowd exploding as the verdict comes down, guilty of involuntary manslaughter; unbelievable to be out there with the chanting and the screaming.
Erin Jacobs, Justice for M.J., it was crazy out there. Have you ever seen anything like it?
JACOBS: No. I`ve never been a part of anything like this before. But it was definitely a moment of elation for the fans here at the courthouse and millions of fans around the world.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Some people thought it was a little unseemly, what do you think?
JACOBS: I think not. Michael Jackson is dead. And this was our, our time to celebrate. We`ve been grieving for 29 months because of Dr. Conrad Murray and we have every right and so does Michael`s family to celebrate today. This is for Michael. This is for his three orphaned children. This is for his family and for his fans.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well spoken.
All right. We`re going to go to the phone lines. Regina, Texas, your question or thought, Regina? Oh, Regina?
REGINA, TEXAS (via telephone): Hello.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi, Regina. What`s your thought, dear?
REGINA: Conrad Murray found guilty, I agree with that. But this is my problem. Watching the trial, the man is not as intelligent as he may think. He sent the Propofol to his living girlfriend. When she got on the stand everybody thought she only wanted 15 minutes of fame. I`m sorry, no. There were other nurses, other doctors, household staff that took a blind eye and a deaf ear.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I think you`re making a good point. And I think that`s kind of what Willie Hampton is saying, is that he`s been being made an example of. As Dr. Arnie Klein contends other doctors in the past have given him Propofol. Do you feel this is a case of selective indignation, Willie?
HAMPTON: I believe that Michael was hard to deal with. I believe that Michael being a superstar, and I`m not trying to defame him but he was a hard-headed person.
A lot of people tried to help Michael. Ms. Elizabeth Taylor, God bless her soul, she tried to help Michael. He was hard-headed. His family tried help him. Michael was difficult. The doctor got in over his head. He realized that he couldn`t handle Michael. But by that time he had already called his four offices and he had lost his investment. He was trying to hang in there with him. Unfortunately somebody took advantage of this. The doctor demanded $5 million from these people in Hollywood.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I hear your side. Now, I want to give Erin a chance to respond to that.
JACOBS: Who is this man?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s a friend and supporter of Dr. Conrad Murray.
JACOBS: Does he know anything about Michael Jackson? He knows nothing. For him to say -- no you don`t, sir.
HAMPTON: Yes I do. Yes, I do, ma`am. Miss.
JACOBS: I just think it`s ludicrous that you have this person who is being paid to stand on the corner, on the show talking about Michael Jackson. He knows nothing about him.
HAMPTON: Objection.
JACOBS: Michael Jackson is dead. Is dead, sir. I don`t care what you have to say any more.
HAMPTON: I understand. I understand. Michael Jackson`s fan club is paying for all you guys. Michael Jackson`s fan club is paying for all those people to be here. They paid their flights from all these foreign countries. We`re not getting paid. I`m not getting paid. This is my friend`s whose life is on the line. A murderer is free -- there`s no justice, Jane. There`s no justice.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. You`ve said your say. Are you guys getting paid?
Yes or no.
JACOBS: No, we`re not being paid. We`re here from our hearts because we lost somebody dear to us.
HAMPTON: Objection.
JACOBS: And he`s just an idiot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, you`re getting a taste of what it was like out there. I was there for six weeks.
Back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, what`s the real significance of this verdict? Guilty. I tell you as a recovering alcoholic with 16 years of sobriety I feel the significance is that it`s putting all these Dr. Feel-Goods on notice.
We`re watching you. Do not hook your patients on legal prescription drugs. It`s still illegal. People are dropping left and right from legal prescription drugs. The portrait of a drug addict today is very different from what we have in our minds, somebody in a gutter with a needle. The average drug addict is a middle class person who lives in the suburbs. Who is hooked on drugs that they got from their doctor; severe mood altering meds, narcotics, a drug is a drug is a drug. I don`t care whether a doctor gives it to you or a pusher gives it to you. You can still become hooked.
"NANCY GRACE" is up next.
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