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Nancy Grace

Dr. Conrad Murray Convicted, Led Away in Handcuffs

Aired November 07, 2011 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The superior court of California, Los Angeles County. The people of the state of California, plaintiff, versus Conrad Robert Murray, defendant. Case number SA-073164, title of court and cause. We, the jury in the above entitled action, find the defendant, Conrad Robert Murray, guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter in violation of penal code section 192 subsection B. Alleged victim, Michael Joseph Jackson, alleged date of June 25th, 2009, as charged in count 1 of the information, this 7th day of November, 2011, foreperson juror ID number 145, seat number three. Is this your verdict? Is this your individual and personal verdict, so say you one, so say you all?

JURORS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All jurors indicating in the affirmative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Good evening. Jane Velez-Mitchell in tonight for Nancy Grace. We have a verdict in the Michael Jackson manslaughter trial, and it`s guilty.

Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent with "In Session." You were in the courtroom when this verdict came down. Jean, take us through it.

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Michael Jackson`s death has been determined to be a homicide, death at the hands of another. As I watched the jury file in -- I always watch them -- not one of them looked at Conrad Murray. I knew what that verdict was going to be.

They sat in their seats, Katherine Jackson sitting there, very close to the jury, Randy, her son, with his arm around her, gently massaging her shoulder, Latoya there, Ribi (ph) there, Jermaine there. And when that verdict was announced, that shriek in the courtroom -- that was Latoya Jackson. She could not contain herself. Katherine very quietly got her Kleenex out and just started to cry and cry and cry.

And the defendant, not really too much out of him, just sitting there, Ed Chernoff very emotional. But then the jurors were polled one by one -- the emotion, the quietness. It was as if Michael was in that courtroom at that very moment. And to so many tonight, justice has been served.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think the biggest shocker, almost in some ways more shocking than the verdict itself, Beth Karas, is that Dr. Conrad Murray was immediately handcuffed. A lot of folks thought, Oh, he`s going to go out on bond, he`ll be shooting his documentary tonight, having dinner at Gladstone`s. Uh-uh! He was cuffed, and he is in jail as we speak. What was that like?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, the jury had just left, Jane, and the judge heard the motions. Now, I suspected this was coming. I`ve been in David Walgren`s position, of course, not with a case like this, however -- but after a conviction, the judge will often hear a bail application from the prosecutor. And he asked for the maximum, which is remand, take away the bail, the $75,000 he has now. Don`t increase to it $200,000 or something like that, just take it away. Hold him until sentencing.

And that`s what the judge did. But the judge went through the factors that the law says you must consider in making that decision, most of which weighed against Conrad Murray, according to the judge.

He looked at the crime he was convicted of, involuntary manslaughter. It`s a homicide. His actions resulted in the death of another person. He felt that he is -- the public perhaps is not safe having him at large. So he locked him up. This is not a Lindsay Lohan situation, Jane. He cannot get out in four hours. He cannot get out in four days. He has to stay there until November 29th, when he`ll be sentenced.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Richard Herman, defense attorney, you had predicted an acquittal. You said the defense was doing a great job. You said that the prosecution had not proved its case. And dare I say tonight, I love you, but you were wrong.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I also said both sides put on remarkable cases. And look, they fought very hard. The jury just didn`t buy any of the defense position.

But if you think, Jane, this brings closure to Michael Jackson`s death, that shriek you heard in the courtroom, that`s guilt by the Jackson family who let Michael for the last 20 years disintegrate. Don`t you think for a moment he was in any position to go on a world tour -- 135 pounds, no veins in his arms. He was abusing drugs for years, including propofol and Demerol and Attavan. I mean, he was completely out of control, spiraling down.

If they all want to put it on Dr. Murray to feel better, OK, but there`s a lot of people that have blood on their hands tonight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, does this send a message to all the Dr. Feelgoods out there, Watch yourselves, we`re watching you. If you`re prescribing drugs for the wrong reason, to get your clients hooked so they keep coming back for more, you`re going down?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I sure hope it does send a message. Listen, there`s nothing illegal about off-label use, but you have to still be a good doctor and be judicious and careful. There`s no excuse for cooperating in a client`s addiction. You need to get them help and don`t keep them addicted, period.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A.J. Hammer, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT," this has been going on in Hollywood for the longest time -- and also, Brian Oxman, you are the attorney for Joe Jackson and you`ve seen this over and over again with many celebrities. I mean, it goes back to Elvis Presley, perhaps even earlier. What do you think the message is to doctors tonight in the wake of this conviction of Dr. Conrad Murray?

BRIAN OXMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOE JACKSON IN WRONGFUL DEATH SUIT: They are shocked, Jane. They are shocked. I have talked now to my doctor friends, and they are absolutely stunned that a doctor would be convicted for prescribing medications to his client. I mean, my goodness!

But the message is very clear, Jane. We`ve seen it before in the Anna Nicole Smith and in other cases. Everybody gets upset. Everybody gets real disturbed about this. But in about a month or two, it`s all forgotten. I don`t want this to be forgotten.

And you know something, Jane? The legacy here of Michael Jackson is, Don`t forget. His kids, Prince, Paris and Prince Michael II, who we call Blanket -- they don`t have a father. And that`s what I was thinking of when that verdict was read. They don`t have a father. Do not forget that Michael Jackson was drugged and that caused his death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go the phone lines. They`re lighting up. Monique, Ohio. Your question or thought, Monique.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Jane, how are you doing?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good. How are you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am good. Thank you. Look, first I want to tell you something I know you`re going to get a kick out of. When I say it, you`re going to remember. I think the doctor was very sleazy. OK.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My second question is this, Jane. I wanted to really catch you when you had, like, an anesthesiologist up there on your panel because what I want to know is, was the propofol -- and I think it was because I am an anesthesia technician. Do you think that -- does a doctor think that the anesthesia over the period of time that this doctor was giving it to Michael Jackson -- that it was literally just poisoning him slowly?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, his body was completely riddled with it. And in a couple of seconds, we`re going to have Dr. Drew Pinsky with us, who is going to weigh in on some crucial issues, like is propofol addictive. And if you`re addicted to one thing, should you be having propofol, which is a surgical knock-out drug?

But Ryan Smith, host of "In Session" and correspondent for HLN`s "MORNING EXPRESS," I want to ask you about something Nagi Ali (ph) said. He is an African-American community activist who I`ve worked with out on the street. And he said that this is a very bittersweet moment because, he said, we should not forget that we have this defendant now who is a doctor who is in the criminal justice system, and he is an African-American and that African-Americans and other minorities are disproportionately represented in prison, and that even though he thinks the verdict is just, he doesn`t think there should be any, any joy or gloating over this, that it`s really a tragedy on both sides.

RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION," "MORNING EXPRESS CORRESPONDENT": You know, I think it`s a tragedy, Jane. But make no mistake, no disrespect to Mr. Ali, but I absolutely disagree. And it`s not about glee or joy. I think if you talk to the Jackson family right now, they`re not gleeful. You know, they still lost a son, a brother. The children have lost their father. This is not a gleeful moment for them. This is about justice and trying to move on.

But when you talk about how this affects the black community, Dr. Murray being in jail is not about being black. It`s about what he did wrong. Even your guest earlier talking about Michael Jackson and what he did has nothing to do with this trial. Dr. Murray`s actions are what this trial is all about. Failing in standard of care is what this trail is all about. And that`s why that jury came back with a guilty verdict.

Even if Michael Jackson did something to himself, Dr. Murray should have foreseen it. And for all the people out there who say, Well, maybe there were others involved and what did Michael do, I think you got to take everything out of this case and look at it for what it is. Dr. Murray, what did you do, and how are you being held accountable for that? Other doctors should have nothing to worry about. If you`re doing right by your patients, this is a victory for you, as well.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ray Giudice, defense attorney, there are those who say that Dr. Conrad Murray should immediately appeal on the basis of ineffective assistance of counsel for Ed Chernoff allowing him to talk to cops in the first place at the Marina Delray Ritz-Carlton two days after Michael Jackson died.

RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, that appeal is going nowhere. Ed Chernoff`s a great lawyer. He did an excellent job in this trial. As Richard pointed out, he did everything he could for his client.

This appeal is going to be based on one of two things, probably both, the failure of this judge to allow the defense to put in evidence of Michael Jackson`s prior medical doctors and his prescription drug abuse history, and the jury charges. That`s what solid appeals are based on.

I doubt Dr. Murray`s going to turn against Mr. Chernoff. He followed Mr. Chernoff`s instructions and did not testify, which I think was also an excellent decision. He would have been turned into chopped meat on the witness stand by this very good and competent prosecution team.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session," you were in court for the verdict. A lot of the fans outside, where I was, are already upset, saying he`s not going to do any serious time, that four years was not enough, and that given the overcrowding situation in California, he`s likely to get off with far less. What is he likely to get?

KARAS: Well, even if the judge gives him the maximum sentence of four years, this new law went into effect in California. It`s called "realignment." And what it is doing -- it went into effect October 1st, by the way. And what it allows is nonviolent felons who are already sentenced -- and Conrad Murray would be considered nonviolent -- to serve their time in county jail or house arrest with an ankle bracelet. And he could qualify for that and might very well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, in the above entitled action, find the defendant, Conrad Robert Murray, guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The man needed to go to jail and he`s on his way! Yes! Yes! Yes! Justice for M.J.!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The jury in the above entitled action find the defendant, Conrad Robert Murray, guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, America! Thank all the fans! Justice has been served!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty, guilty...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was in that courtroom, and that`s why victory was served (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conrad Murray in handcuffs in the courtroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes! Yes! Yes!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From doctor to convicted killer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is it! This is it!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is it! This is it!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is justice. Justice was served, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Jackson -- oh! -- justice achieved. His family certainly feels that way tonight, although they can never bring him back.

Good evening. Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. Dr. Conrad Murray guilty of involuntary manslaughter. They slapped the cuffs on him. Right now as we speak, that man you`re looking at behind bars. And he is being cuffed there as -- there he is, being cuffed. They did not waste any time. Extraordinary, extraordinary developments.

I was outside with the fans. They were overcome. They were screaming. They were yelling. They were sobbing. They were praying. One woman literally collapsed on the ground as she fainted. She had to be taken away about ambulance, just around the very time that Dr. Conrad Murray was led away in handcuffs, his business suit given to his family to be traded in for prison garb.

We`re delighted to have with us tonight Dr. Drew, HLN star and an addiction specialist who can explain to us, Dr. Drew, the impact this is going to have. Because I am starting to feel more and more like this is a turning point for the United States. We have a prescription drug epidemic in this country. The stereotypical addict is no longer somebody in the gutter but a middle class person who is hooked on narcotics provided by their doctor. Do you think this is a turning point moment?

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, "DR. DREW": Jane, I hope so. And this is just really the tip of the iceberg. This is the most egregious situation, where it`s obviously that a doctor`s over-prescribing. But there are many, many millions of other people out there who believe they`re following their doctor`s orders or doing what they should do.

But if you have a history of addiction or if you are on opiates or benzodiazepines for an extended period of time and there`s a family history of addiction, you should really be looking at this. It is a very serious problem. It`s a problem in California. It`s a problem in Florida. It`s a problem throughout the country. And we`ve been losing ground particularly with people under the age of 18 on this issue.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. In fact, in some states, more people are dying from prescription drug overdoses than they are from car accidents.

PINSKY: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I know the Jackson family -- and I certainly have compassion for what they`ve been through -- is very sensitive to the whole idea of calling Michael Jackson an addict. Jermaine, in fact, tweeted me when I called Michael Jackson an addict. And as a recovering alcoholic with 16 years of sobriety, I say, well, here`s why. According to 12-step, once you`re an addict, you`re always an addict. In 1993, Michael Jackson said...

PINSKY: Jane, let me interrupt you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.

PINSKY: Not according to 12-step only, but according to medical science. It`s a disorder that has genetic basis, that once it is triggered, it`s a chronic, life-long condition, like asthma or diabetes, that requires daily management. It never goes away.

So to say, as he did -- go ahead and report what you were going to report, Jane, that he stated clearly in 1993 that he was an addict, right?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. Right. Yes. So once an addict, always an addict. Therefore, it raises the question of the irresponsibility of Dr. Conrad Murray in using propofol as a sleep aid, along with a slew of sedatives. But it also raises the question about what was happening in Dr. Arnie Klein`s office with all the Demerol.

PINSKY: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is Dr. Conrad Murray being made a scapegoat?

PINSKY: Well...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is he just one of many?

PINSKY: He is one of many and he is being made a scapegoat. That doesn`t make him less guilty, unfortunately. You know, there are orphans out there who had a father and there are millions of fans that no longer have their idol and there`s a man who`s dead.

But really, ultimately, this whole thing to me makes me sad. There`s a collision of two lives. One man is dead and one man is in prison, and it`s all because of a lack of sophistication around this thing we call addiction.

And Jane, I hope you`ll support me on this. I mean, we don`t mean -- we`re not disparaging Michael when we call him an addict, anymore than if we said he were an asthmatic, right?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No!

PINSKY: It`s the same thing. It`s just a chronic medical illness that he, a human being, happened to suffer from, and then the medical system ill served, did not properly treat him for his medical problem.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are just getting started.

Nancy Grace makes it to the top (INAUDIBLE) on season 13 of "Dancing With the Stars." Tonight, she is dancing the tango and the jive. And it`s all for an amazing cause, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. So be sure to vote. You can vote multiple times for Nancy and her amazing dancing partner, Tristan MacManus. Everybody here at the NANCY GRACE show says, Good luck, Nancy. You can win this thing! We know you can!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON: This is it. This is the final -- this is...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Conrad Robert Murray, guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

-- guilty...

-- guilty...

-- guilty...

Alleged victim, Michael Joseph Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But he`s not responding to anything, to no...

JACKSON: The final curtain call.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he`s not responding to the CPR or anything.

911 OPERATOR: Oh, OK.

JACKSON: (INAUDIBLE) show.

I mean, this is really it. This is the final -- this is...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell in tonight for Nancy Grace. An extraordinary day here in Los Angeles. That guy right there being cuffed, guilty of involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson. Fans going crazy outside court. I was there as they screamed, as they prayed, as they sobbed, as they cheered. One fainted and had to be taken away by ambulance. Just a wild, wild scene. But right now, that man behind bars sleeping on a cot tonight.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Sarah, Colorado. Your question or thought, Sarah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Thanks. I wanted to congratulate you on your sobriety, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you comment -- you speak a lot about the prescription dug epidemic, and Dr. Drew also. And I wanted to mention that prescription drugs are also used by people who are not drug abusers, who have chronic painful illness. And the way that all of these drugs now have been demonized, and also doctors who prescribe them to people who have legitimate long-term or...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think you`re making a good point, Sarah, and I`m going to let Dr. Drew take that.

PINSKY: We absolutely agree with you. And of course, we`ve overdone that by over-prescribing the medicines so that people who need the meds feel threatened by it. But of course, in sophisticated hands, if you have no history of addiction, if there`s no history in your family of addiction, no one is going to be concerned about this.

Listen, if you have cancer, these are the greatest -- these are life- saving medications. When morphine sulfate was developed, it was actually one of the most famous physicians in history abbreviated it as GOM, "God`s own medicine," because we could stop suffering with that medicine. But there was a dark side, and we`ve overdone the dark side.

Jane, I just want to mention real quick, I`ll be discussing this in great detail on my show tonight at 9:00 o`clock, "DR. DREW." We have a whole host of people who were involved in this trial coming on. Vote for Nancy, but watch me!

(LAUGHTER)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And Dr. Drew, I`m just so happy that you are here because as a recovering alcoholic, I often feel like -- almost attacked when I start talking about the addiction angle, not to hurt anybody`s feelings, but because it would be abrogation of my duty as a journalist and as a recovering alcoholic not to say, Hey, we have to look at this issue. It`s a life or death issue for America!

PINSKY: And it`s not a moral issue. We`ve got to stop thinking about it as weakness or morality. And people immediately think you`re going there, which you are not. You`re talking about a medical condition with a biological basis in the brain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give her some air! Give her some air!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t breathe!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Superior court of California, Los Angeles County. The people of the state of California plaintiff versus Conrad Robert Murray, defendant. Case number SA-073164. Title of court and cause. We, the jury in the above entitled action, find the defendant, Conrad Robert Murray guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter.

In violation of penal code section 192, subsection B, alleged victim, Michael Joseph Jackson, alleged date of June 25th, 2009 as charged in count I of the information. This 7th day of November, 2011, foreperson juror I.D. number 145 seat number three. Is this your verdict? Is this your individual and personal verdict? So say you one, so say you all?

(CHANTING) yes

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All jurors indicating in the affirmative.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Thank you all the fans. Thank you prosecuting team. Walgren, you were great. Everybody was wonderful. I just want to thank you for really - Jane, I love you.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: What would you say to Michael if you could say something to him now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m going to say, Michael loves everybody out here. We all love him. And guess what, he was in that courtroom and that`s why victory was served.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell in tonight for Nancy Grace. Justice for Michael Jackson. That was the chant outside court. A wild scene as Dr. Conrad Murray was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in the superstar`s death, and the fans outside went wild as they heard that verdict, crying, screaming, sobbing, laughing, chanting, one even fainted. An extraordinary day.

Let`s go straight out to A.J. Hammer, "Showbiz Tonight" on HLN. What is the reaction going to be in Hollywood given Hollywood`s long history of superstars who have died or become ill as the result of some kind of illegal medication use improperly? From Elvis all the way through to Michael Jackson?

A.J. HAMMER, HOST, HLN`S SHOWBIZ TONIGHT: Yes. Unfortunately, it just sort of reinforces the idea that what has been going on for so many years is still going on and it is what ultimately led to Michael Jackson`s death.

And that is the enabling of stars, the enabling of big powerful people in Hollywood who have lots and lots of money and can ultimately get whatever they want even if whatever they want isn`t in their best interest, if they`re hiring somebody who doesn`t have their best interest in mind as was the case with the Michael Jackson/Dr. Conrad Murray relationship, then this is going to continue and it`s going to be perpetuated.

But tonight, at least, in social media, we`re seeing a lot of Hollywood stars reacting, thankful that there`s justice for Michael Jackson. But what we`re also feeling is sort of a sense of calm and an urging of people to not see this as a celebratory moment, really to see it more as a moment where we should all be pleased with what has happened if, in fact, we thought that Conrad Murray was responsible for Michael`s death.

But to celebrate, people are saying that does not really do well for the memory of Michael Jackson, and we have a lot of people tonight saying respect his memory, be happy with the verdict if you`re happy with the verdict. Throwing a party and launching balloons not exactly the modus operandi tonight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And while some people were unseemly in their gleefulness outside court, the Jackson Family, particularly, Katherine Jackson always the picture of grace, dignity and serenity as she left court smiling but not in any way displaying glee or joy, acknowledging that this is a sad situation.

She`ll never have her son back, and her grandkids will never have their dad back. I want to go back out to Jean Casarez. You were in there for the verdict, seven men, five women making this extraordinary decision. Tell us about those jurors, their backgrounds, and what they did as they walked into court.

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Well, you know, we learned for the first time today who the foreperson was. It was juror number three. He was a male. He is a male. He has a master`s degree in Business Management. So, he definitely was a leader. When they walked into that courtroom, they did not look anywhere but straight ahead. And the alternates could already come in first.

And I saw some of the jurors smile at them as if oh, we missed you. We`re sorry you couldn`t deliberate. But, the judge has sealed their names, all their personal information until further order of the court. So, Jane, we can`t find out the theory on which they convicted.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And there were two theories. There is the lawful act with criminal negligence, which is giving propofol overall, and then, there is the failure to act. Ryan Smith, outline for our viewers just bottom line what was his failure to act?

RYAN SMITH, HOST, IN SESSION & CORRESPONDENT: Well, the failure to act would be the things that he neglected to do in Michael Jackson`s care and when you think about it, it could include the abandonment, it could include the lack of calling 911, it could include the treatment. And when you think about a case like propofol, Jane, what`s the anecdote?

The anecdote is making sure you`re there to clear his airway if he has trouble breathing. If not, then that`s how he dies. In a sense, you`re causing his death by not being there in that room. So, that may have been what this jury chose to hang their hat on. But, they only had to be unanimous in one theory or another. And one way or another, they decided that Dr. Murray was the one to be held responsible.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I get your analogy, and I was thinking of an analogy of somebody who is swimming, and they`re under water and they`ve got an oxygen tank. And if you take that oxygen tank away and they can`t get to the surface, they`re going to die. It`s the same thing.

The oxygen tank is crucial in that case. And that`s precisely the kind of back up, Beth Karas, that was not there for Michael Jackson when something went wrong.

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: That`s right. I think that if there`s any -- two things that Conrad Murray did wrong, one was, of course, bringing propofol into that home, but the second one was walking away from Michael Jackson. It didn`t matter how much propofol got into his body, all he had to do was stop that line because it leaves your body so quickly, and give him some oxygen.

Put that Ambu bag near him, breathe for him, whatever he needed to do to open the airways. Michael Jackson would have lived -- he would have live if Conrad Murray was at his side. That`s what he did wrong. He failed in his duty to care for his patient by abandoning him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian Oxman, the attorney for Joe Jackson, this is not the end, certainly of Dr. Conrad Murray`s legal problems. He also faces some civil issues. Tell us about that.

BRIAN OXMAN, ATTORNET FOR JOE JACKSON: Well, there is a civil wrongful death case which has been filed against Conrad Murray by Joseph Jackson, the father on behalf of the family and also the concert promoters are named in that civil lawsuit as bearing responsibility for Michael Jackson`s death. Don`t forget about them.

And Conrad Murray is going to have to face the music once again, and we`re going to find out a whole lot more, because while he did not take the witness stand in this case, he should have, but he did not take the witness stand, he is going to have to answer in that civil case and we`re going to find out a whole lot more as to what he did and why he didn`t do what he should have.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s bring in the attorneys on that one. Do you think, Richard Herman, that a big problem for the defense was that Dr. Conrad Murray did not get on that witness stand and explain himself? Yes? Hello. OK. Someone is asleep at the wheel there. Ray, take a stab at that one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lawyers knew they were going to get Dr. Murray in front of the jury by the audiotapes that the state was introducing, and then, they were going to get his good character in evidence to the use of his good patients that came forward. Again, I think, Murray in listening to his tapes, the way he speaks, I think he speaks in a very erratic fashion.

I don`t think he was very clear headed about what happened at all, obviously. And I think that prosecution really would have beat him up. You know, when you out your client on the stand as a defense lawyer, it all sounds great when I`m doing that direct examination. Question, answer. Question, answer. We scripted it.

But boy, when those qualified prosecutors get up there, no holds barred. They just can tear a witness to pieces, and it`s probably the most risky decision a defense lawyer ever makes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But look, it looked like he had nothing to lose because there he is, walking away in handcuffs. He`s in jail right now sitting on a cot. Sandy in Indiana, your question or thought, Sandy.

SANDY, INDIANA: Hey, Jane. Nice to talk to you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

SANDY: First of all, I wanted to say that how jealous I am of you getting to sit next to Dr. Steinberg on your show earlier.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I know he`s great.

SANDY: He`s gorgeous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your question or thought, my dear.

SANDY: I would like to know if you think that Dr. Shafer`s kindness and his likability factor played role in the verdict over Dr. White? He was kind of mean and grumpy old guy. I just wanted to know what you thought about that?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think personalities do count, and Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, Dr. Steinberg was absolutely a star. I mean, he wowed the jurors.

LESLIE AUSTIN, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, he sure did. You know, I think the jury is very smart, and they will have those impressions initially, but they`re much too smart to let superficial things like he seems like a nice guy or bad guy influence the decision. I`m sure they went by the testimony.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think that while there might have been charismatic people on both sides, it ultimately came down to the evidence.

Nancy Grace makes it to the top five on season 13 of "Dancing with the Stars," and tonight, she is dancing the tango and the jive for an incredible cause at National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. So, make sure to vote. You can vote multiple times for Nancy and her amazing dancing partner, Tristan MacManus.

Everybody here at the NANCY GRACE SHOW says, good luck, Nancy. You can win this thing. We know you can.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the Michael Jackson death trial.

MICHAEL JACKSON, MUSICIAN: This is it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Murray finally got handcuffs on him.

MICHAEL JACKSON: I mean, this is really it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The jury has reached a verdict.

(SINGING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three buzzes from that jury.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice has been served.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That means they have reached a verdict.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re so happy about the handcuffs. This means a lot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for MJ!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Find the defendant, Conrad Robert Murray, guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This man is going to jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice was served. Yes. It wasn`t enough time, though.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you say for Michael?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael, Michael`s with us.

REBBIE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S SISTER: Thank you so much. I`m just happy it`s over with. Nothing will bring him back, but I`m happy he was found guilty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, the Jackson Family speaking to me as they left court today after this extraordinary day. Jane Velez-Mitchell in tonight for Nancy Grace. Michael Jackson, justice for Michael. That was the chant outside court as Dr. Conrad Murray, his doctor, was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter after a jury of seven men and five women deliberated for ten hours and seven minutes and 42 seconds.

Ryan Smith, you were out there. You and I have covered this from the very beginning. Every trial has its mantras. Of course, that kind of started with the O.J. Simpson case which was in the same courthouse. If it doesn`t fit, you must acquit. Think of Casey Anthony. Where`s Caylee or something is wrong here? That was the defense mantra. Something is wrong here. What was the mantra in this trial?

SMITH: oh, there were so many. The big one, I think, justice for Michael. For the prosecution, it wasn`t even about mantras. For them, it was about holding doctors accountable. And I think the big repercussion from this trial or the big change might be the end of doctor shopping as we know it, Jane, right?

Because, now, people are going to be held accountable. On the defense side, the thought was always if there is no drip, you must acquit, but I guess, that jury thought there was a drip. I guess they thought the causation didn`t weigh in the favor of the defense, and I guess, at the end of the day, it all comes down to this.

Doctors will be held responsible for what they do to their patients. They have a higher burden. They take an oath. And if they neglect, if they walk away, if they slip below the standard of care, there may be harsh penalties. You may spend time in jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I also think, Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, that doctors need to be educated about addiction. Not everybody is an addiction specialist. Dr. Conrad Murray was not an addiction specialist, yet, he took it upon himself, according to his own words, to wean Michael Jackson off of propofol. Dr. Arnie Klein`s office was administering Demerol to Michael Jackson, according to testimony and evidence introduced, in court.

And I personally think that doctors are woefully ignorant about addiction in general. As a recovering alcoholic, I go in to doctors` offices, and they`ve tried to prescribe me mood altering medication, narcotics. And I`m like, I can`t take them. I`m an addict. I`m an alcoholic. I mean, looking kind of funny like, they don`t even know what I`m talking about.

AUSTIN: Well, the thing is a lot of doctors don`t coordinate and don`t monitor their patients. Nobody was monitoring Michael to see all of the doctors he was going to and all of the meds. And so, all of the addiction issues were overlooked or not paid attention to. Murray wasn`t certified anesthesiology either.

He shouldn`t have been administering an anesthetic. And it is addictive. Propofol is addictive because of the mental capacities in addition to what it does to biologically. It`s not a drug for casual use. So, doctors have to be very super responsible to be aware of their patients possible addiction problems and use these medications wisely the way they were meant to be used.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, as some cynics have said, there`s nothing better at getting a good patient who comes back regularly and often than getting them hooked on prescription painkiller. You know that patient is going to come back, not ask any questions, not want to talk about their problem, but simply, give me the prescription, doctor.

And Beth Karas, there were so many bottles in Michael Jackson`s bedroom. And Dr. Conrad Murray had said, well, I didn`t know about Dr. Arnie Klein, but wasn`t there a bolt with Dr. Arnie Klein`s name on it?

KARAS: Yes. There was a bottle by Michael Jackson`s bed in a basket with Klein`s name on it, and Dr. Alan Metzger. So, there were medicines there that Conrad Murray should have been aware of. Plus, Randy Phillips of AEG Live says that he told Dr. Murray in early June 2009 about Klein, and that, perhaps, Murray ought to check it out.

Now, in the civil suit that Katherine Jackson brought against AEG, I think we`re probably going to hear allegations that Dr. Murray felt pressure from AEG to make sure Michael Jackson slept at night so he could perform by day, and so, Conrad Murray did what he could to keep Michael Jackson asleep at night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go to the phone lines. Patty, West Virginia, your question or thought, Patty.

PATTY, WEST VIRGINIA: Hi, Jane. I just want to make a comment. Your caller said earlier about, you know, I understand the addiction and stuff, but, again, the ones like me that have a severe illness, we have so much problems of finding a doctor to take care of us and give us our meds. It took me 50 doctors just to find one who would take me as a patient. And I`ve had my condition for six years.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think, Brian Oxman, you`re the attorney for Joe Jackson in the wrongful death lawsuit. I think this is about balance. We don`t want patients never to be able to get meds. We just want the doctors to know that these narcotics that are on a par with Demerol, for example, on a par with morphine, which is then compared to heroin, that hey, you give somebody that, they`re likely to get hooked.

OXMAN: No kidding, Jane. Michael Jackson had nine drugs in his system when he died. Nine. He had what we call a polypharmacy. And while some people have a very difficult time finding doctors who will prescribe the medications, not in Michael Jackson`s case, and most important, not when you`ve got a lot of money.

The doctors just come out of the woodwork and they prescribe, prescribe, prescribe. One final thing, Jane. Michael Jackson died. His brothers, his sisters, his mother, his father, they lost someone and we`re sad about it.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their theory is that Michael Jackson injected himself with propofol causing his own death. That he acted so recklessly with the life of Michael Jackson in his hands that it amounts to indifference to the very life of Michael Jackson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This sort of conduct does rise to the level of criminal negligence and to the extent someone dies as a result of their playing the role of Dr. Feel Good, they will be held accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell in tonight for Nancy Grace. Dr. Conrad Murray guilty in the death of pop superstar, Michael Jackson, one of the most famous men on the planet ever. A.J. Hammer, "Showbiz Tonight," what will the Hollywood community take way from this verdict.

HAMMER: Well, I`ve been thinking a lot about it, and people have been asking me a lot about what Michael Jackson`s legacy will be both to Hollywood and beyond, and I think it will be untarnished in many ways. That was a big fear of the Jackson Family that, perhaps, the Jackson legacy would be tarnished by the trial and what we might learn about Michael Jackson, but the truth is, Jane, we really didn`t learn a whole lot more about Michael Jackson than what we already knew.

You know, the family was very concerned that he would be portrayed as an addict, and the truth is none of them are still willing, it seems, to come forward and say yes, he did have an addiction issue. But I think, you know, when time passes, and we have a little distance from this, certainly, this will be a part of Michael Jackson`s story, but it won`t be a part of his legacy.

His legacy will remain that he was simply one of the greatest entertainers, one of the greatest performers that this world has ever known.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And so many people out there, the fans outside court, telling me stories that touched my heart about how Michael Jackson touched their hearts. One woman from Iran said that she risked her life to smuggle Michael Jackson CDs in order to listen to them literally at the risk of her life.

Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army First Sergeant Marcus Muralles, 33 years old, from Shelbyville, Indiana, killed in Afghanistan. He was awarded the bronze star, the Purple Heart, and the combat action badge, and he also served in Iraq. He loved traveling, playing the guitar, movies, and spending time with his family.

He leaves behind parents, Lionel and Rosemarie, his sister, Cindy, his widow Diana, his daughter, Anna, and his son, Dominic. Marcus Muralles, a true American hero.

Thanks to all our guests and thanks to you at home. See you tomorrow night, eight o`clock sharp eastern right here. And remember to vote for Nancy. Nancy, you can win this thing. Until then, have a safe evening.

END