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Nancy Grace
Possible Baby Shoe, Ransom Note in Baby Sky Case
Aired November 11, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Washington state. Mystery surrounding the disappearance of a 2-year-old little boy vanishing from Mommy`s silver Acura sportscar after she claims to run out of gas, then leaves the Acura on the side of the road. Mommy takes the 4-year-old sister but not the 2-year-old baby boy, allegedly asleep, still strapped in a carseat. The cops say no forced entry, and the car starts right up, no engine problems. We confirm no relatives spot the baby for two full weeks before.
Bombshell tonight. At this hour, we confirm a ransom note. Is baby Sky alive? As the search goes on and even though the family has a fancy apartment, Mommy holes up at a hotel, hiding out. Why? As Daddy takes a second polygraph, police find a baby shoe near Mommy`s car. It baby Sky`s?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This woman had thoughts that would not leave her mind.
SOLOMON METALWALA, MISSING BOY`S FATHER: Our daily lives were like hell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OCD, severe OCD.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julia did make a statement that she ran out of gas and that was the primary cause of why she stopped on the side of the road that day.
METALWALA: She kept on saying that she wanted to kill herself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you that there was a sufficient amount of gas to travel an ample distance to several gas stations.
GRACE: Have you looked on that FaceBook site? Practically no pictures of baby Sky. It`s all about the 4-year-old little girl.
METALWALA: And she said it so much that Miley (ph) started to repeat, I want to kill myself.
GRACE: The mom is refusing to take a polygraph, all right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What mom doesn`t carry her cell phone with her? I mean, that goes along with carrying your sippy cup and your diaper bag.
GRACE: Where is baby Sky?
METALWALA: Sky was a blessing.
GRACE: Everybody get mobilized. We`ve got to find the baby.
METALWALA: I love Sky.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. At this hour, we confirm a ransom note. Is baby Sky alive? As the search goes on and even though the family has a really nice apartment, Mommy holes up at a hotel, hiding out. But why? As Daddy takes a second polygraph today, police find a baby`s shoe near Mommy`s car. Is the shoe baby Sky`s?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She spotted a shoe by the side of the road.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That we follow up on every lead, and we really do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And said, I wonder if it has anything to do with what`s going on here in town?
GRACE: There`s been plenty of time if Mommy wanted to cooperate for her to take a polygraph.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The issue of forcing her into talking to us isn`t even on the table.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The neighbor couldn`t pin down exactly what day he was seen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sky`s father is going to get the second polygraph done, as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A sufficient amount of gas in that vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re hoping Sky is out there alive and well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police test drive the 1998 Acura just to make sure it didn`t have any mechanical difficulties.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he was so dirty, we have an image of him over -- of her over-cleaning him. He said instead of taking care of the kids, she`d be busy cleaning the whole time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some little thing might be the ultimate thing that solves this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Where is baby Sky? As we go to air, we confirm a ransom note surfaces. And why is Mommy, during the search, everything going on, holed up in a hotel? Why is she hiding out? Daddy heads to a second polygraph at police request today.
Straight out to Victoria Taft, talk show host AM 860 KPAM. Victoria, why is Mommy holed up in a hotel?
VICTORIA TAFT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST AM 860 KPAM (via telephone): Well, the media want to talk to her. If you saw the news conferences -- and the cops have been doing daily doubles recently -- the reporters are considering her a suspect. They`re asking very pointed questions. They want to talk to her. She ain`t talking, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, I tell you this much -- everybody, Victoria Taft with me, talk show host and personality joining us. She`s out of KPAM. Victoria, this is what I know. If somebody took one of my twins, God in heaven help us all.
TAFT: No kidding.
GRACE: Number one, I would be out beating the streets, trying to find my baby. And number two, no way would I leave my house or my apartment, no way, because what if whoever took the baby tried to ransom the baby, tried to contact me? Why would I be holed up in some hotel? That`s crazy talk, Victoria!
TAFT: I couldn`t agree more. I think you`re absolutely spot on about that, Nancy. Why would you leave the one place where someone would know, hopefully, to bring that child back? Something is not right here, and I think we all know that there`s something that`s not right here. But nevertheless, she wants to keep away more from the media than she wants to receive information about her child, it appears.
GRACE: This as we learn in the last hours and can confirm a ransom note emerges. Alexis Weed, let`s break it down one thing at a time. Number one, what did the ransom note say?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It said if there was not $25,000 provided in U.S. dollars that the baby would lose, one by one, fingers until it bled to death.
GRACE: Here we go. "Your child is alive but suffering from shock. If you want your child back alive, you must make available the sum of U.S. $25,000." I find it interesting that they put "U.S." $25,000. Who would think to put U.S. money? Of course it`s U.S. money! "Or this offer will be off and your reuniting will be sure dead for life." OK, this is clearly not someone fluent in English. "I must warn you that if this note goes public to police or you make a demand for proof and don`t wire the money within the next 24 hours, fingers cut off one by one."
That is the gist of the ransom note. Back to you, Alexis Weed. Where did we -- where did the ransom note surface?
WEED: It surfaced on a FaceBook page. And this is a page that was started by a person who wants to remain anonymous. We don`t know who started this page, but it`s dedicated to finding baby Sky. This is where the letter was -- the ransom note was supposedly was e-mailed to starter of this FaceBook page.
GRACE: So it`s on a FaceBook page. Everybody, we are taking your calls. Out to Casey McNerthney, SeattlePI.com. Are police following up on the ransom note? I`m sure that they are.
CASEY MCNERTHNEY, SEATTLEPI.COM (via telephone): We`ve heard reports that they are. There`s still quite a few questions that have to be answered about this note. Number one, who wrote it? Is it legit? Is it a scam? People want to know what legitimacy it has. And that`s certainly something that we believe the Bellevue police will be looking into today and in the coming days.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Tracy in South Carolina. Hi, Tracy. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I was wanting to know, with everything that`s coming up, I mean, are they still looking at or have they looked at the family members or anyone? I mean, because the note kind of sounds kind of fishy to me. But I`m just -- I`m just -- I don`t know. My feelings about this are just all over the place right now as far as this little 2- year-old missing...
GRACE: I agree. It could go sideways, especially with a baby shoe showing up not far from the Mommy`s car where she claims she left the baby.
Back out to Victoria Taft. Explain to me -- the cops are not saying Mommy`s a suspect. They pulled Daddy in for a second polygraph. Do you equate that to them looking at the family? Because I do.
TAFT: Well, I`ll defer to you because you are the attorney. But Nancy, here`s the thing. The father has been willing to take a polygraph, and he has done so. It was inconclusive the first time around, and now he`s willing to do it again. To my understanding, he`s not even considered a suspect here. And the only one who is a little bit hinky here refuses to take one. And at yesterday`s news conference, they wanted her to come in.
GRACE: Everyone, as we go to air, a ransom note surfaces. This also as we learn cops take Mommy`s car on a test run to check out whether the car was sputtering, whether it was slowing down. Also, we learn a baby`s shoe found not far from Mommy`s car.
To Alexis Weed. What do we know about the shoe?
WEED: Nancy, the shoe was found by a couple and their daughter who were walking in a park area that`s about a quarter of a mile from where the mother says she left baby Sky in the car.
GRACE: Everyone, this as we uncover Mommy`s extremely severe case of OCD, obsessive-compulsive disorder. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
METALWALA: She had a routine. It would go for six to seven hours. So she would clean the whole house every day. It didn`t matter if we used that area or not, but it just -- it had to be cleaned all the way through. So starting from the kitchen to all the cupboards, all the plates that were outside display. If we had one or two picture frames, she had to wipe that, the mantle, the TV. Everything had to be wiped out clean with just water and soap. Every inch, every corner -- she would Windex the mirror before and after she used the bathroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Solomon Metalwala says nothing prepared him for the news that Sky has disappeared. He and his wife, Julia, have been going through a bitter divorce.
METALWALA: The scariest part is, is if she -- she gave Sky to somebody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to make a public invitation to Julia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The one woman with answers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are open and willing to interview her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re all mystified by it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His mother just isn`t talking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What mother does this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they examined the car, they found 2.2 gallons of gas still in the tank.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It didn`t run out of gas, according to the authorities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both parents are engaged in a bitter divorce.
GRACE: We`ve got so many questions, I don`t even know where to start.
METALWALA: Did she do something to Sky?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe (ph) now (ph) -- and I understand you even had some footage captured of the test drive of Julia`s vehicle early this morning. As you saw, the vehicle operated just fine. We test drove it. We gathered some data. We took some notes. We recorded some video, and secured the vehicle until further notice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It`s all coming down and unfolding so quickly, we can hardly keep up with it, in the search for 2-year-old baby Sky. Mommy says the baby is on the way to the hospital, that he`s sick, but she runs out of gas, so she leaves the baby strapped in the car on the side of the road and starts walking, and takes her 4-year-old little girl with her. When she comes back, the baby is gone.
Hey, Liz, cue up that SUV -- excuse me, that "SVU" sound that -- this is Mommy`s favorite show, according to Daddy, that she watched the night before. This particular episode was on the night before. Alexis Weed, what`s in the episode?
WEED: Nancy, this episode, there`s a young couple. They`re not married. The mother of a little toddler about Sky`s age leaves her toddler in the back seat of her car. She goes into a convenience store to buy diapers for the baby, organic diapers. She says to police...
GRACE: OK...
WEED: ... she comes out, he`s not there.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at it, Alexis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They took him!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you talking about?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They took the car. Nate was in the back seat! I was only gone for a minute!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you kidding me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He needed diapers! I didn`t want to wake him!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you thinking?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They stole my car! My son was in the back seat. Someone stole my baby! Someone stole my son!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s just a tiny bit of the episode of "Law and Order." It aired the night before baby Sky goes missing. That`s where Mom tries to cover up the baby`s death, claiming he was stolen from her car. This is one of Mommy`s favorite shows. She never misses it. The Daddy told that to me to my face. Next day, baby Sky is gone.
We find out in the last hours, police take Mommy`s car, go on a road test. There was plenty of gas. That car gets 25 miles to the gallon. It had about two-and-a-half gallons of gas in it. No electrical or engine problems at all.
I want to go very quickly to the shoe being found. Victoria Taft, talk show host, KPAM, where was the shoe found?
TAFT: It was within a quarter mile of where the mother left the car on Sunday. And a woman and her daughter drove by, and the woman thought she saw something and she thought, You know, if you see something, say something. So she did. And it turns out that it was not baby Sky`s shoe, but nevertheless, it was worth mentioning to the authorities.
GRACE: You know, I`m hearing, Victoria, that the Mommy claims baby Sky didn`t wear shoes. Liz, let`s go back through all of the photos and see if baby Sky is wearing shoes. But you know what? I don`t find that that unusual because my twins didn`t want to wear shoes for the longest time, either.
Unleash the lawyers, Paul Batista, defense attorney, author of "Death`s Witness" out of New York, Penny Douglas Furr, defense attorney, Atlanta.
Let me just go to you first, Penny. Why in the middle of all this search -- Penny, you know my twins intimately. You`ve known them since they were born in an emergency C-section. Penny, if one of my twins were missing, I`d have you and me both out on the streets screaming for the baby. Where are they looking for them? Why is Mommy holed up in a hotel, Penny?
PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Of course you would, Nancy. But you and I are also both lawyers, so we would know how to handle an interview. I think this woman should get an attorney immediately and get in to do the interview.
GRACE: I don`t think it`s about lawyers, Penny.
FURR: I think she`s afraid.
GRACE: It`s about being a Mommy.
FURR: I understand, but she`s afraid.
GRACE: Hey, forget it! I remember when your dog -- she`s got, like, five dogs running through her house...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: When one of your dogs go missing, you go berserk.
FURR: Oh, I (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: You`re everywhere!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You went crazy when my cat went missing! Remember?
FURR: I did, and I...
GRACE: So...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... say it however you want to. And you did find Cocoa (ph). But long story short -- holed up in a hotel? OK, Batista, give me your best shot.
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m not buying any of this, Nancy. So she`s -- she`s not holed up in a hotel. She`s in plain view. She`s there. We all know where she is. The media is...
GRACE: I haven`t seen her!
BATISTA: Well, but we know where she is. We`ve been told that. She`s not hiding.
GRACE: Oh, really? Do you know where she is? Where is she?
BATISTA: She`s in a hotel.
GRACE: What hotel is she in? Where?
BATISTA: Do I personally know? Of course, the media knows.
GRACE: So we don`t know!
BATISTA: The police know.
GRACE: We don`t know!
BATISTA: She`s not hiding, Nancy.
GRACE: Why isn`t she front and center trying to find this baby?
BATISTA: Because she`s a confused woman who arguably has lost a child who was left in a car.
GRACE: All right, let`s go the shrink. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." Bethany, come on! That`s crazy talk. Where`s Mommy? Why is she in a hotel?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: She knows there is no reason to be at her house waiting for the baby because the baby is gone, gone, gone. And she knows where the baby is. And the most suspicious thing to me is that her OCD is so severe. It tells me she is not complying with her medications. And her relationship to her OCD is more important than a relationship to her children. And she may have scrubbed her child out like one scrubs a stain out of the carpet. Maybe her little boy was just a germ to her, a germ that needed to go away. And she didn`t give him shoes because she didn`t want him to track germs throughout the house.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, I can only imagine what happened in the bathroom. How did she clean the bathroom?
METALWALA: Exact same way. Every inch, every corner. She would Windex the mirror before and after she used the bathroom. Every corner would get cleaned with water and soap.
GRACE: OK, this is something -- I think I didn`t understand it. You mean after she would go in and tee-tee, or urinate, she would Windex the bathroom window before and after she`d use the bathroom?
METALWALA: Yes. So after she -- before and after, she would clean the toilet, and then she would window (ph) the mirror because she has been inside that room. So for her to be at peace again, that room needs to get re-cleaned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Where is baby Sky? So much unfolding in the last 24 hours. Number one, we find out about a ransom note that has emerged, threatening to chop off digits off the child unless $25,000 wired in. Is it legit?
Number two, cops take Mommy`s car on a test run. It`s fine. It`s got enough gas to go at least 60 miles in it. Mommy walked about a mile with her 4-year-old little girl, leaving 2-year-old Sky strapped in a carseat, according to her.
Number three, overnight we find out about a baby`s shoe found near Mommy`s car, and the shoe has been ruled out.
We are taking your calls. Before I go to the calls, very quickly to Mark Smith, polygrapher and detective, president, New Jersey Polygraphists. Mark, Daddy is coming back in voluntarily today. He comes back in for a second polygraph. Why would he get an inconclusive?
MARK SMITH, FMR. DETECTIVE, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: It`s actually fairly uncommon. There may have been one of the questions that he was not being 100 percent truthful about. That`s usually why it would be inconclusive. If he`s not involved and has absolutely no knowledge, he should have been cleared.
GRACE: But this is what`s interesting to me, Mark Smith. Everybody, Mark joining us from Pompton (ph) Plains, New Jersey. Mark, I mean, you`re the president of New Jersey Polygraphists. You`re the expert. You`re a long-time police detective. Is there any innocent reason he would get an inconclusive? Because he`s the one volunteering to go back in. They`re not making him do it.
SMITH: Yes, there could be. There could be some issue that came up on the test. Maybe the questions weren`t worded right. I`m just saying that it`s not very common to have an inconclusive test, about 10 percent to 15 percent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Solomon, you took a polygraph. You got an inconclusive result. Your willing to take another polygraph? Did you take another or are you willing to take another polygraph?
METALWALA: I`m of course willing to take another one, and as soon as they tell me, I`ll take it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did something with Sky, I don`t know what.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disappearance of 2-year-old Sky.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mom says she left in her stalled car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The shoe we found in the roadway last night, I think that has been put to rest in regards to its value. But I just want to speak about that briefly. We don`t believe that was Sky`s shoe found in the road last night. Doesn`t appear to be the right size. The dogs didn`t indicate any scent leading away from that area, the street.
So at this point anyway it looks like a dead end. However we collected the shoe and we`ll keep that as evidence just in case our theories are incorrect.
(END VIDEOTAPE0
GRACE: We`re live and taking your calls.
Before I go the calls, I want to go to a special guest, joining us out in Seattle, D. Michael Tomkins. Consistence the daddy, Solomon`s attorney.
You know, Mister Tomkins, I am just learning that mommy is holed up in a hotel, why?
D. MICHAEL TOMKINS, DIVORCE ATTORNEY FOR DAD OF MISSING 2-YEAR-OLD BOY (via telephone): Beats me. You need to talk to the defense attorney who is probably not talking. She`s not talking. Obviously, the wagons are being circled. Dad is going nuts. The police are going nuts.
In one sentence, she can clear it up. If she doesn`t take the opportunity to use that sentence, dot, dot, dot.
GRACE: You know, D. Michael Tomkins, with us everyone. This is Solomon`s divorce attorney. A ransom note has emerged, demanding $25,000 and claiming the child`s digits will be cut off if the money is not handed over. I`m sure your client, the father, is going berserk. How is he?
TOMKINS: He`s crazy. But as a psychological defense he can`t and doesn`t believe the note is real. Because to believe it would be tragic and hurtful and irreparable and the worst news any parent can have at any time in anyone`s life.
So we`re hoping that the police are going what they probably are doing. They are not keeping us totally informed because it`s not our business to disprove this nightmare, but it is certainly disturbing and terribly psychologically damaging.
GRACE: With me also today Doctor Gwen O`Keeffe, pediatrician, founder and CEO of pediatricsnow.com.
Doctor Gwen, joining me out of Boston, Doctor Gwen O`Keeffe, thank you for being with us.
You know, as a first time mom, I read all the books. I had no idea what I was doing. It`s kind of you learn on the job. As a matter of fact, I`ve got John David right here playing on an iphone playing right beside me. In case you hear some crazy noise. He`s into angry birds.
Doctor, someone unfamiliar with a child what issues would they be facing right now?
DOCTOR GWEN O`KEEFFE, M.D., PEDIATRICIAN, FOUNDER, CEO, PEDIATRICSNOW.COM: You know, Nancy it`s just like you say. When you`re unfamiliar with a child you go through all those first time parenting experiences. We can only hope that Sky is with somebody loving if Sky is alive and adapting to a 2-year-old.
And as you know, 2-year-olds are unpredictable. It is the most chaotic time of parenting, I believe, and I think Sky could do OK if, if Sky is with somebody who can mold to a 2-year-old`s unpredictability.
However if Sky is with somebody who gets frustrated easily and doesn`t understand how to care for a 2-year-old this is a high risk situation. And I`m concerned he was already in a high risk situation because it didn`t sound like the mother could cope with the 2-year-old`s nature either.
I`ve taken care of a lot of families with mental illness and one thing in common of mothers is no matter how mentally ill a mother can be that maternal instinct is very strong if they are stable and it sounds like this mom has becoming unglued fast.
GRACE: You know, I`m going to playback for you, Doctor Gwen, what the daddy told me right to my face about mom`s OCD.
Out to the lines, to Lynne in Minnesota. Hi Lynne, what`s your question dear?
LYNNE, CALLER, MINNESOTA: Hi Nancy. I have nine children and my youngest are only three years apart. My question is how could she take the keys and not at least lock the car doors?
GRACE: You know another issue to Lynn in Minnesota, especially after all the cases I`ve covered, I`m afraid to even leave the twins in the car in their car seats to dash in and get a coke or a zippy cup. I`m so afraid a car you know could roll into reverse or just anything could actually happen. Is it true to Casey Mcnerthney, seattlepi.com that she did not lock the doors? What do we know about that, Casey?
CASEY MCNERTHNEY, REPORTER, SEATTLEPI.COM: We`ve heard that from police when they got to the car that there were doors that were unlocked. There are a lot of questions about the car. There`s question of why there was gas in the car when the mother said there wasn`t. That`s what led the police to say that things that she`s doing are suspicious even though they haven`t named her as a suspect. There are still many, many questions about the car and her actions.
GRACE: So Casey let me get this straight. Everyone, Casey Mcnerthney, joining me out of Seattle, seattlepi.com. So, it`s my understanding three of the doors were locked and one was unlocked, is that correct?
MCNERTHNEY: Right. That`s what we`ve been told during the investigation during press briefings from the police.
GRACE: It`s two and one. But there are four doors. So there are three doors. There are three doors? How can that be three doors? It`s a coupe. Get it. I get it. OK. Thank you. I`m a little slow on the sports car information.
So, one of these is unlocked. I don`t understand how that can even happen.
To Mark Smith, detective and polygraph expert, if you power lock, if you hit the power button they should all lock, shouldn`t they, Mark?
MARK SMITH, DETECTIVE, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: You would think so, yes.
GRACE: OK. Back to Mark Smith, polygraph expert and detective. Mommy refuses to take a polygraph saying she`s too distraught. What does that have to do with it?
SMITH: It has to do she doesn`t want to take a polygraph. You said that if something happened to one of your children you would beating the streets, you would take an hour out to take a polygraph with the police. Because every minute that she`s a suspect, the police are spending out that much less time the police are looking for the real person that who have taken your child.
So, there`s no excuse for her not cooperating the police, it says a lot about this case.
GRACE: OK. Speaking of children, that`s John David, right beside me playing on an iphone.
Out to the lines. Crystal in Florida. Hi Crystal, what`s your question dear?
CRYSTAL, CALLER, FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. I`m just wondering because by the mom`s account of what happened, why hasn`t she been arrested for at least child endangerment? I mean what kind of parent leaves their child --
GRACE: Good question, Crystal in Florida. You know what? I hadn`t even thought about that I`ve been so focused on trying to find baby Sky.
Unleash the lawyers. Paul Batista, joining us out of New York, Penny Douglas Furr, Atlanta.
The 4-year-old little girl has been taken out of the home and is in foster care. At the hearing the other day, Penny and Paul, mommy didn`t show up to try to get visitation or get the 4-year-old girl back. All right?
Now that doesn`t indicate guilt or innocence I`m just putting it out there, Penny. So why wasn`t mommy charged immediately with child endangerment Penny Douglas Furr?
PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, ATTORNEY: Well, because then they won`t get any information from her. Because then she will get a lawyer. And if she`s charged she won`t say a word. They can charge her with child endangerment at any point. I certainly wouldn`t do it now while I`m trying to find this child. I would leave her out there --
GRACE: What about that, Paul Batista, why shouldn`t we put her behind bars and see if that softens her up to tell us where the baby is?
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If you put her behind bars she is going to clam up and her lawyer will insist on it. Penny is absolutely right. It`s a good police investigation technique to leave her out there. Let her hang around a little bit. It`s a good approach.
GRACE: What about it Bethany Marshall? Why is mommy holed up in a hotel and what do you make of these developments that the car doors weren`t locked?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR, DEAL BREAKERS: I think that factors that baby may not have even been in the car at that time. And this is a story after the fact. And I think it`s significant that her facebook page had pictures of the 4-year-old but not of the 2-year-old little boy who is gone.
We know parents who abuse often choose one child to love and one child to hate. So I don`t think we should get so distracted by the OCD and the mental illness that we forget she may have just hated the 2-year-old.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sky has disappeared but officials are scrutinizing mommy`s story.
GRACE: Mommy said that she apparently ran out of gas, walked over a mile to the closest gas station.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they arrived to find the vehicle in questions they found 2.2 gallons of gas still in the tank.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: police are finally saying yes, they suspect foul play in this disappearance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are finally saying yes, they suspect foul play in this disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Case of a missing 2-year-old boy in suburban Seattle.
GRACE: Mommy said that she apparently ran out of gas, walked over a mile to the closest gas station.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A sufficient amount of gas in that vehicle to run it for a considerable distance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s a hugely --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole story doesn`t add up. Something is missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: this is your name Miss Houdini, it`s possible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Possible enough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father is claiming that she had such severe OCD.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To put it in people terms, a lunatic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law and order SUVS episode that has great similarity to this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Timeline is very troubling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It aired Saturday the day before the disappearance of Sky.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really, really bizarre case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would you leave him in the car in the cold for an hour and a half?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live and taking your calls out to Crystal in Ohio.
Hi, Crystal, what`s your question?
CRYSTAL, CALLER, OHIO: Hi Nancy. Thank you so much for taking my call. I was wonder if the ransom note had either of the parents submitted to a handwriting sample and have they interviewed the 4-year-old?
GRACE: Good question. Hold on. Keep Crystal in Ohio. That`s a good question. Here`s the problem. The ransom note was over the internet. It showed up on -- what was it a facebook page. Facebook page. What`s your second question, Crystal in Ohio?
CRYSTAL, CALLER, OHIO: Have they interviewed the 4-year-old? To ask the 4-year-old if the baby was even with them?
GRACE: They interviewed the 4-year-old not once but twice immediately after the incident. And I asked other questions of the father and he said right to my face, Crystal in Ohio, that the little girl`s car seat was right beside the boy`s car seat. And that she originally told police that the boy was in the car seat with her.
Now, you know, with a 4-year-old they are highly, highly suggestible. The baby could have been in the car seat at some point that morning. There are a lot of ways to explain what the 4-year-old girl said including that she was telling the truth.
Out to the lines. Derek in Montana. Hi, Derek. What`s your question?
DEREK, CALLER, MONTANA: Hi, Nancy. How are you today?
GRACE: I`m good, Love.
DEREK, CALLER, MONTANA: Good. My question is, I guess it`s sort of been talked about but was the child in there at all and secondly, you know, has law enforcement identified a secondary search area, have they gone beyond just where the car was and have they identified a secondary area of search for this child?
GRACE: Well, I know this much, Derek. The major in this case has been very close to the vest but he did tell me, again to my face, that they are looking through trash dumps, and landfills to go through trash and I`m sure they are not saying this but to look for human remains.
Because, you know, you want to look -- no relative has seen the baby for two weeks before this incident. And you want to look back in their trash and see. The 4-year-old is probably not in poopy pants dipes.
But, if the 2-year-old has been in the house for two weeks you`ll find diaper, you`ll find baby food, all sorts of things according to the picture I`m showing you right now, he`s still taking a bottle. You`ll find evidence of that.
So I know that they are, Derek in Montana, excellent question by the way, sound like you might be a cop, secondary crime scene, potential crime sense are being searched. I know that for a fact.
Back to the lines, Sarah in Washington. Hi, Sarah, what`s your question?
SARAH, CALLER, WASHINGTON: Hi, Nancy. Actually I`ve been trying to figure out -- I live in the area and actually very familiar with it. And I`m trying to figure out why there`s a brand new emergency room less than six blocks from her home. Why would she drive 15, 20 minutes to Bellevue when she`s low on gas and also why are there not posters anywhere?
GRACE: OK Sarah in Washington State, don`t you go anywhere. I want to find this out.
Liz, I want to get somebody there on the scene to do a drive to take it from mommy`s apartment to the hospital. Sarah in Washington is telling me about. What hospital is it Sarah, with the new emergency room?
SARAH, CALLER, WASHINGTON: It`s actually part of Evergreen Medical Group and they just built it, it just opened like within the last six months, I believe.
GRACE: Holy molly.
SARAH, CALLER, WASHINGTON: It`s evergreen medical group emergency room.
GRACE: You know what the other thing Sarah in Washington State, if your child is sick, why would you leave the sick baby that you`re taking to the hospital, for Pete`s sake. I tried not to -- I`ve been in the emergency room before.
But I try not to take them there when I could take them to a doctor so they won`t be exposed to who knows what in the emergency room waiting area. So, to Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers," weigh in Doctor Bethany.
Why would you do that? It doesn`t make any sense. And why would you leave the sick baby in the car? They could both walk. Father told me the 2-year-old can walk and the 4-year-old can walk.
MARSHALL: To me the obvious answer is this woman has been out of touch with reality for so long that even her lies are fantastical. She spends more time cleaning off the mirror in her bathroom and living in her own world than in the world of the needs of her children.
And you can see in the construction of lies she has not thought through what other people are going to think what she`s saying. So, once again, it`s like she`s in her own little world and not tracking with the thoughts of other people.
And the fact that OCD was so severe, Nancy, that doesn`t make sense to me. That tells me this mother was not taking her medication. She was not compliant with treatment. Why?
The reason was she loved the OCD more than she loved children. Sometimes even though someone has a psychiatric illness they can indulge the symptoms and love the symptoms and get lost in the symptoms to the exclusion of everything else in their lives and --
GRACE: I got you, Bethany, straighten something out to me what you`re saying. I don`t understand when you say she loved the obsessive compulsive disorder. Is it like an alcoholic or drug addict they know that they need help but they rather stay in it? Is that what you`re saying OCD is like?
MARSHALL: Well, there`s pleasure, if OCD is a distressing intrusive thought that you neutralize through a thought or activity, she may have gotten more attached to the activity of cleaning and neutralizing the obsessive thought than in thinking about her children.
GRACE: Got it. You know, I want to go back to you, Alexis Weed.
I want to talk again about the dad taking the poly - hold on Alexis, I`m hearing that I still got D. Michael Tomkins. This is the dad`s lawyer with me. It`s his divorce everybody. He`s not a criminal defense lawyer.
You know, D. Michael Tomkins, your client agreed to take a second polygraph. He volunteered. No one made him do it. This is the father, Solomon. Why did he get an inconclusive on the first polygraph? Was it a particular question?
TOMKINS: The procedure itself was done awfully early. He was in the throes of the first 72 hours. Haven`t slept literally during the entire time obviously. And he couldn`t spell his name and the polygraph examiner said, go home. Get some sleep. This is -- we can`t get a pulse on you let alone a truth-telling answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mother`s story is falling apart day to day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The story mom has told you have to scratch your head and wonder why.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got out of the car, left Sky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The story does not add up. There`s something missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Not just tonight but every night we need to stop and remember the men and women who sacrificed their lives for our freedom.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Present --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The headstones aligned over these hallowed hills behind us bear witness to the price our country has paid for our freedoms. They are testimony to the willingness to struggle and sacrifice for those freedoms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And sacrifice of the men and women who have served in the armed forces of the United States of America.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Here where our heroes come to rest, we come to show our gratitude.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: On this veterans day, let`s stop and remember army private first class Bill Williams, just 21, Gardnerville, Nevada, killed in Iraq. Awarded the bronze star, purple heart, Navy ordnance disposal unit.
Loved guitar, walks, video games, family friends. Leaves behind grieving parents, Brad and Lisa, sister Amy, brothers Aaron and Justin. Serving the marines, Phillip Williams, American hero.
Thank you to our guest. But our biggest thank you is to you for inviting all of us to your homes.
And a special good night for little crime fighter and youngest producer ever, 10-year-old Koa with his mommy, my beloved Liz, who is in my ear every night.
Koa, you`re so handsome. Are you married? Do you want to be? Smart boy.
And say hello to Koa, joining me out here in L.A., Lucy, John David, say hey, Koa. Hello.
Hey, Koa.
Hey Brett, let`s see a shot of Loa.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
