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Nancy Grace
Missing 2-Year-Old`s Mother Looking for Sugar Daddy on Line
Aired November 16, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Washington state. Mystery surrounding the disappearance of a 2-year-old little boy, vanishing from Mommy`s Acura sports car after she claims to run out of gas, then leaves the car on the side of the road, taking her 4-year-old little girl, leaving the 2-year-old baby behind still strapped in a carseat. Cops say no forced entry on the car, and it started right up, no engine problem, plenty of gas.
Bombshell tonight. As the country searches desperately for 2-year-old baby Sky, Mommy busy with a search of her own, on line, for a lover. That`s right, we uncover Mommy`s on-line profile looking for love and money. In the days following baby Sky`s disappearance, Mommy says she`s looking for a, quote, "sugar daddy," a real man, a man who can pay her $3,000 to $5,000 a month, "can kiss in the rain," quote, "never regret" and, quote, "learn from mistakes," Mommy describing herself as slim, blond, blue-eyed and passionate -- in all caps.
And in a stunning twist, it`s revealed Mommy`s account accessed in the last 48 hours. Police still processing Mommy`s apartment, clearly convinced there`s trace evidence they haven`t found yet. Was an arrest of Mommy in the last 24 hours aborted, called off? But why? With police kicking Mommy out of her hotel, she`s still in hiding. As Daddy reunites with his 4-year-old daughter, tonight, where is 2-year-old baby Sky?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Mommy refuses to talk to cops.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She refuses to speak to the police.
GRACE: I found out she had no trouble going on FaceBook.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seekingarrangement.com. It last accessed October 26th, a week-and-a-half before Sky`s disappearance.
GRACE: How does she deal with baby Sky`s poopy-pants?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) right away or right away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aims to connect singles with so-called "sugar daddies."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can`t understand how anyone would leave a sick child in the car for over an hour.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This story does not make any sense.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The story doesn`t make any sense. She knows exactly what happened to the child.
SOLOMON METALWALA, MISSING CHILD`S FATHER: Actually, when we came home, you would have to go right in the shower.
GRACE: This obsessive-compulsive disorder your wife has.
I understand that she would not let you use the commode.
METALWALA: I was not allowed to. I was not allowed to.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was this child really ill? Is this just part of some fabricated story?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are still hoping that she might cooperate.
GRACE: Take a look at baby Sky.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. As the country searches desperately for 2- year-old baby Sky, Mommy busy with a search of her own, on line, for a lover. That`s right, we uncover Mommy`s on-line profile looking for love and money in the days following baby Sky, her little boy`s, disappearance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julia`s search for a sugar daddy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All theories are still viable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His mother`s on-line dating life is coming under scrutiny.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have looked at this Web site, Seekingarrangement.com, in connection with the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve read and watched the reports about the dating site myself, and I can tell you I have to be very sensitive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was looking for a wealthy guy who could really take care of her and (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the site`s so-called "sugar babies" appears to be Sky`s mom, looking for a sugar daddy, seeking an allowance of $3,000 to $5,000 a month. Detectives have issued a search warrant for Julia`s account activity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They wanted to know exactly when she accessed the Web site, as well as with whom she might have been in contact with.
METALWALA: I do believe Julia has -- she is responsible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. As the rest of the country looks desperately for 2-year-old baby Sky, Mommy`s got a search her own going on, for a lover, a rich lover, looking for love and money on line. Straight out to Casey McNerthney from Seattlepi.com. Casey, what can you tell me about this Web site, Seekingarrangement.com?
CASEY MCNERTHNEY, SEATTLEPI.COM (via telephone): Well, Seekingarrangement.com is a Web site for people looking for companionship, often in exchange for people who are financially stable. In their words, it tries to match modern sugar daddies with what they call sugar babies, which are people looking for financial and emotional help.
GRACE: You know, Joe Gomez, KTRH, it sound like -- and I`m not saying Mommy`s a hooker, but I am saying when you say you want a, quote, "relationship" in exchange for $5,000 a month -- I mean, I`m just reading in between the lines, but I guess you saw "Pretty Woman," right? Weigh in.
JOE GOMEZ, KTRH RADIO: Well, it`s pretty shocking, Nancy. You know, according to reports, this -- she may have signed on as recently as two days ago. You know, this profile that we believe to belong to her, it lists J.B. as a sugar baby who`s looking for a sugar daddy (INAUDIBLE) up to $5,000 a month, Nancy, $5,000 a month! The fact that she may have logged on two days ago while her baby is still out there missing -- I mean, what does this mean in the search for little baby Sky? It`s outrageous!
GRACE: And Joe Gomez, KTRH, we uncovered that she`s on line in the last 48 hours from right now. So while we are covering baby Sky`s disappearance, while search efforts are being organized about 12 miles away from his apartment -- Liz, let`s see that map where the search this weekend is going to go down. All of this is going on, Mommy`s on line, looking for a man.
I`ve got her profile right here. Let`s take a look. OK, "Happy, single, loving" -- all caps -- "fun and passionate."
All right, to Caryn Stark, psychologist. When you put something in all caps on line, isn`t it the same as yelling?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, it`s the same as really just coming across very strongly. And here`s -- Nancy, it`s just -- here`s somebody who supposedly has obsessive-compulsive disorder, and yet she`s on line and she`s trying to have romance. And so to me, that`s a person who has no feelings. It`s so much more like an anti-social personality. It`s outrageous!
GRACE: I mean -- unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Darrell Cohen, defense attorney, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney out of Atlanta.
Darrell, have you looked at this thing? "Stop chasing and get chased. Send flowers. Write letters. Kiss in the rain." Kiss in the rain? Kiss in the rain? Her son is missing. Her baby is gone. And she`s saying kiss -- put Cohen up. Kiss in the rain?
DARRELL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Quite frankly, Nancy, it`s not the right thing to do, but I understand it. She`s trying her best to get herself, her mind off of her child...
GRACE: I`m sorry. You know what? I`ve got so many people in my ear in New York nutting up over this, I couldn`t hear what you said. New York, can I please hear Darrell Cohen just for 30 seconds? Go ahead, Darrell, start over.
COHEN: Nancy, I get it. I don`t think what she`s doing is appropriate, but I also understand that she has a child...
GRACE: It`s not appropriate?
COHEN: ... that`s missing and she`s very, very upset and she`s trying her best to get away from it. So she`s trying to divert herself in the same way that films divert us from the terrible things that are happening in the world. So I get it.
GRACE: Stop.
COHEN: No, she could have done...
GRACE: Stop! Stop! What did you say about film and terrible things happening in the world?
COHEN: When people go to films, they try to divert their attention from the type of things that are happening in real life. What she`s trying do is divert herself from what`s happening in her life. And she`s hoping, I suspect and I hope, that her child is going to be returned to her healthy and in one piece.
GRACE: Darrell, Darrell, she won`t talk to cops. She has not spoken to cops at all since the day baby Sky went missing. I don`t know what you`re talking about "divert attention." Maybe I`m just projecting that when my fiancee was murdered, I couldn`t eat, I couldn`t drink, I couldn`t hear the radio, music, TV. They had to stop the clock because the ticking was too much to take.
Renee Rockwell, she`s on line screaming, I`m passionate, all right?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy...
GRACE: That`s like putting perfume on a pig!
ROCKWELL: Is there anything about that that`s relevant to this case?
GRACE: Yes, there is!
ROCKWELL: If she was talking about having only one child...
GRACE: No, no! No, no! No, no! You asked a question. Is it relevant to the case? And yes, it is, because as the two of you know -- you`re just not two pretty faces, you`ve tried a lot of cases -- what goes into every case for the prosecution to prove is course of conduct, intent, frame of mind. Her frame of mind is about finding a sugar daddy that can support her for $5,000 a month. Her frame of mind is not...
ROCKWELL: Is that illegal?
GRACE: ... out there handing out...
ROCKWELL: That is not illegal.
GRACE: I asked you a question.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Do we need to turn the mike -- OK, I guess that`s a yes. So please cut Renee`s mike. Her frame of mind is not out handing flyers, is not searching for her son, is not organizing searches for her son, is not - - she`s not at the police station looking at the map, submitting to a polygraph, doing anything they ask and going beyond that. Her frame of mind is on line, finding another lover. I think it`s highly probative.
Darrell, you used to be a felony prosecutor with quite a record of conviction. Can you explain frame of mind?
COHEN: Sure, I can explain frame of mind. But Nancy, Renee said it. She said it well. It`s not...
GRACE: Go ahead and explain it, please.
COHEN: ... illegal for her to do this. Well, my view of this...
GRACE: Repeat. Please explain it.
COHEN: She has every right to do this. She`s trying to take her mind off of...
GRACE: OK, so...
COHEN: ... what`s going on.
GRACE: ... you`re not going to explain frame of mind.
COHEN: Well, Nancy, I will explain it.
GRACE: OK. That`s fine.
COHEN: I will explain it. She`s got...
GRACE: Goode. Do it.
COHEN: If she talks to the police, then they`re going to take it. We have ourselves as the press to blame...
GRACE: OK. Never mind.
COHEN: ... because every time somebody says something bad...
GRACE: I`m going to go to another lawyer joining us right now. Clay Terry is joining us. This is the dad, Solomon Metalwala`s, attorney. Clay, I`m sure in your jurisdiction, like many other jurisdictions, frame of mind, course of conduct, intent is very relevant when trying to prove a crime. Could you, Clay, explain what frame of mind means under the law in a nutshell?
LESLIE CLAY TERRY III, MISSING BOY`S FATHER`S ATTORNEY (via telephone): Well, it goes to her frame of mind, goes to what her intent is. You know, did she intend to do something or did she not intend to do something? And I think it`s that simple.
GRACE: Again, Mommy has not been named a formal suspect, but sources are saying an arrest of Mommy scheduled for yesterday was aborted. Why? As Mommy is kicked out of the hotel where she`s slung (ph) up, hiding on line, cops insist she is not a suspect. We uncover tonight Mommy`s on-line activities. In the days, the hours after her son goes missing, she`s on line looking for a sugar daddy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you hear this story, you have to scratch your head and wonder why.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seekingarrangement.com.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was looking for a wealthy guy who could really take care of her and pamper her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With so-called sugar daddy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So many, many questions about the car and her actions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mother is the last to have seen the child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This woman had thoughts that would not leave her mind.
METALWALA: Our daily lives were like hell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OCD, severe OCD.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they examined the car, they found 2.2 gallons of gas still in the tank.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if that casts suspicion on Julia, I think it`s the facts speaking, not us.
GRACE: Baby Sky is gone!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Abducted by a stranger? Was he hurt or just hidden away by a friend or family member?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a three-pronged search, locally, nationally and internationally.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we have here is a genuine mystery of a missing child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Was an arrest of Mommy set to go down in the last 24 hours but then aborted? To Alexis Weed, our producer on the story. What do you know, Alexis?
WEED: Nancy, there were some rumors out there that police had gone to Belltown (ph). This is a little part of Seattle where the brother of the mother lives. The rumor was that police went there to arrest the mom. But they`ve dispelled those rumors in the last press conference, saying, No, that`s not exactly true. But Nancy, they also will not say whether they actually went to Belltown at all.
GRACE: Well, I`m sure they`re not going to confirm to us what their thinking is.
Back to the lawyers, Darrell Cohen, Renee Rockwell. OK, to you Renee. When I asked you what the law means by frame of mind, you danced all around it and...
ROCKWELL: No, you didn`t ask me. You asked Darrell.
GRACE: I`m still forming a question.
ROCKWELL: OK.
GRACE: No, I asked you. Then I had to go back to him when you wouldn`t answer. Instead, you were talking about how it`s not illegal to go on line. So I want your voice to be heard, even though that`s not what I asked you. Let`s hear it.
ROCKWELL: OK. Frame of mind is when a court allows some outside conduct to come in to court to help the jury decide is Mama real (ph) guilty. Defense attorneys, of course, don`t like that because it puts her character at issue. You`re letting other conduct come in to prove the conduct in question.
Whether or not she`s looking for a free ride, like a lot of girls are doing, a lot of guys are doing the same thing, a free ride -- does that make her a murderer? I say no. And I say that conduct that brings up someone`s character can confuse a jury. So of course, defense attorneys don`t like it.
GRACE: Weigh in, Darrell.
COHEN: Well, first of all, I think once again we`re taking something and we`re taking it out of context. The media, every time you talk to the police, no matter what you say, they`re going to turn it around. And her lawyer is giving her great advice, keep your mouth shut. Let the facts fall where they are. And first of all -- and Renee, we don`t know that this child is dead and we hope he is not dead.
GRACE: OK, now that you`ve gotten it out of your systems, course of conduct, frame of mind, intent all goes legally into a trial -- after a hearing out the presence of the jury -- to show and prove the case in chief. Very often, we hear those catchphrases used when we are talking about a similar transaction, a case similar to the one that`s in the case in chief.
Here we`re talking about Mommy going on line as recently as the last 48 hours, looking for a man to support her, a sugar daddy, a, quote, "real man" that likes to, quote, "kiss in the rain" and can give her $5,000 a month.
To Ben Levitan, joining us out of Raleigh. He`s a telecommunications and Internet expert, renowned in his field. Ben Levitan, thank you for being with us. I see Mommy`s account logged in in the last 48 hours, 48 hours from right now. How do I know it`s really her logging in and updating her profile with correct information?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): Nancy, this is -- I`ve studied the code on these pages, on this Web site. This is a very secure Web site. For one, you have your usual password and your -- you know, your user name, your password. It also checks your location to make sure you`re on the same location and calling from the same computer because every single computer in the world, Nancy, has a unique identification, like a phone number. And we`ve talked about that before. It`s called your IP address.
To even sign up for this Web site, if she tries to claim that someone signed her up for that Web site, it`s not possible because you have to put your e-mail address in, and then you are sent a confirmation e-mail, which you have to click on from your computer to be logged on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mother`s story is falling apart day-to-day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The story that Mom has told, you have to scratch your head and wonder why.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got out of the car, left Sky.
METALWALA: Her story does not add up. There`s something missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the Bellevue street where a week ago, Julia Biryukova parked her car and walked away with her daughter, leaving her 2-year-old son behind, she claims, while she went for gas. Investigators were back making voluntary traffic stops and talking with walkers and joggers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anybody that was in this area last week, we want to talk to them, if they saw anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live and taking your calls. But first to Clay Terry. This is the biological father, Solomon`s, lawyer. Clay, I understand that you managed to finagle a reunification between Daddy and his 4-year-old little girl. He`s been fighting to get her out of foster care and into his custody. What happened, Clay?
TERRY: Well, it was a wonderful event. Yesterday, they told us that he could see the child. We set up at a secure restaurant where no one knew they were going to be. But the child showed up. And she saw her father in the restaurant and she began running to him, saying, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, and she put her arms around him. She hugged him. She had a little bear with her. She just loved it.
She was with her dad for a little over two hours. They had fun. They went to eat there. They played games. They had a wonderful time. And just before she left, she said to her father, Daddy, can I come home with you? And the social workers were working with us on this case and the father both said that they`re working on it and she`ll be home soon. And she was very happy. It was -- it was...
GRACE: Hey, Clay, I`m not...
(CROSSTALK)
TERRY: You talk about "nutting up," everyone there, I understand, was pretty tearful. It was a wonderful sight.
GRACE: With me is attorney Clay Terry. He`s representing the father, Solomon Metalwala, in this case. Clay, I`m just thinking about how my twins act when they come home from playschool. It`s like we haven`t seen each other in a year. I`m just imagining how Solomon felt, how the little girl felt.
Has the mom made any attempt to see the 4-year-old little girl, Clay?
TERRY: Not that I`m aware of. There was a hearing last week for visitation, and the mother did not show up to the hearing. And so the judge denied any visitation to her.
GRACE: Clay Terry with us. This is the dad`s lawyer. Clay, I don`t want any specifics, but can you just tell me what kind of home is the little girl in?
TERRY: We do not know, but she is apparently in a very fine foster home. We have a great CPS service here that`s arranged for that. And the CPS case worker has informed us that she`s in a very -- in a nice foster home. She`s eating well. She`s sleeping well. And she`s very happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This woman had thoughts that would not leave her mind.
METALWALA: Our daily lives were like hell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OCD, severe OCD.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julia did make a statement that she ran out of gas and that was the primary cause of why she stopped on the side of the road that day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are suspicious of Julia Biryukova`s story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She claimed to leave Sky in a car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she claims while she went for gas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then returned to find him missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No sign of Sky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We feel Julia can help us.
GRACE: Mommy refuses to talk to cops.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child`s still missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we`re hoping she`ll come in and talk to us.
GRACE: She had no trouble going on FaceBook, accepting new friends.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can`t understand how anyone would leave a sick child in the car and then -- and just leave her (SIC) there for over an hour.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police do not have enough evidence to arrest her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s not searching for her own child. She`s refusing to cooperate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very, very worrisome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search for Sky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police seem to believe the case hinges less on searching and still on Julia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are taking your calls. Baby Sky disappears after Mommy leaves him on the side of the road, claiming she ran out of gas. We uncover in the last 48 hours Mommy on line conducting a search of her own, but not for baby Sky, for a rich boyfriend. And I`m putting that euphemistically.
Out to the lines. Tammy in Ohio. Hi, Tammy. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Was it said that baby Sky was left in a car where he -- where doors were unlocked or just his door was unlocked?
GRACE: I know that one of the three doors was unlocked. To Casey McNerthney, SeattlePI.com. What do we know about the doors of the car being locked?
MCNERTHNEY: Well, we`ve heard from police that there was at least one door that was unlocked, like you were saying, and there was some in this -- in this car -- that`s an Acura -- that were locked. But there was a lot of questions about that vehicle. We also learned that there was enough gas to make to it the hospital where she intended to go and...
GRACE: You know, let`s take a look at that car. You see that they`re counting that back -- are they counting the back, the trunk and that little seat in the back as one of the doors, Casey McNerthney?
MCNERTHNEY: We believe so. They haven`t specified exactly which one, but we know that one of them was unlocked. We think they are counting that back area there.
GRACE: Yes. Because they said two of three, and I`m putting money on the door beside baby Sky being unlocked, one of the doors.
OK. We`re taking your calls. Out to Kristin in Florida. Hi, dear. What`s your question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. I saw your interview with the husband the other evening. And I was wondering, have any other family members come forward who could comment on the mother`s treatment of Sky, as opposed to her treatment of the daughter?
GRACE: Good question. Alexis Weed, our producer on the story, we know, having investigated her FaceBook page, not her sugar daddy page, that she had tons and tons of pictures of the 4-year-old little girl, hardly any of the little boy. I learned from the father that baby Sky was a surprise.
WEED: Right.
GRACE: And it was also a surprise that it was going to be a boy. What do we know about her treatment of the baby from other relatives?
WEED: Well, other than that FaceBook page where she has oodles and oodles of pictures of this little girl, very few of Sky on there, we haven`t heard from the mom`s family. And that`s one of the things that police would like to know. Where is this family? Where are her friends? Who is she connected with? Police want to speak with her family, Nancy, but it`s the dad`s family so far who`ve been very vocal. Their faces have been out in front of the media, trying to find little Sky.
GRACE: Joining me right now, Andrew J. Scott, former chief of police, Boca Raton, president, AJS Consulting, and Brandon Wade joining me out of Vegas. He`s the founder and CEO of Seekingarrangement.com. Baby Sky`s mom seeks sugar daddy on site, wants $5,000 a month and declares she`s passionate, in all caps.
Andrew J. Scott, Brandon Wade, thank you for being with us. Andrew, a search warrant was executed on the Web site. Explain what that means, Andrew.
ANDREW J. SCOTT, FORMER CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON: Specifically, they`re going to want to find out who opened that account, how they opened the account, what was the name. And it goes into your other guest`s comment about identifying the IP address, and basically when that account was opened and how often it was either accessed and what have you.
And so they`re going to ask for very specific information relative to that search warrant as to what and who opened up that particular account. And it could be helpful in the long run for the law enforcement officials.
GRACE: To Brandon Wade, founder and CEO of Seekingarrangement.com. Apparently, baby Sky`s Mommy on line, looking for a rich lover. Brandon, thank you for being with us. You have stated police came to you with a search warrant for information about the Mommy`s profile. What did you tell them?
BRANDON WADE, SEEKINGARRANGEMENT.COM: Well, we`re cooperating with the police and giving them exactly what they want. But since it`s an ongoing investigation, I can`t really comment beyond that.
GRACE: You know, police wanted to know exactly when she accessed the Web site and with whom she had been in contact. Are you table to hand over that information pursuant to a search warrant?
WADE: Yes. All information that the police wanted, we have provided them with that. So anything at all, so...
GRACE: You know, Brandon Wade -- everyone, founder and CEO of Seekingarrangement.com -- are users required to show any proof of identification in order to set up a Web site?
WADE: Well, actually, no. Sugar babies can join Seekingarrangement.com completely free. All they need is...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait a minute! Wait a minute, Brandon Wade! What`s a sugar baby?
WADE: A sugar baby is a woman looking for a sugar daddy. So that`s a term we use for the women who want to meet a wealthy man. They`re called sugar babies on the Web site.
GRACE: Aha. All right. Go ahead.
WADE: And they can use the Web site completely free.
GRACE: Mr. Wade...
WADE: Yes?
GRACE: ... this is not an infomercial. I appreciate you throwing that in that you can go on line for free. Question, is there a way that you can determine that she set up her own profile?
WADE: No, there`s no way to do that. But what the police can potentially use is certainly, like, what the other expert says, the IP address. Does that correspond to the IP address of where she accessed it, her computer, her home Internet service provider? That`s the definitive way of actually determining if the account really belongs to her.
But from our end, there`s no way with 100 percent certainty that we can say this account is actually hers, beyond the information and the pictures that show up.
GRACE: With us is Brandon Wade, the founder of Seekingarrangement.com. We have her profile, and I`m sure you`ve studied it. How would you describe it? Is it typical? What can you tell me about her profile?
WADE: I don`t see anything wrong with her profile. I mean, first of all, it was created in July, long before her son disappeared. And she was -- she just got out of a really bad marriage and she`s looking for somebody who is different, who is wealthy, who is able to really support her, take care of her. And as you said, in her profile, she`s got a lot of positive qualities on her views of life. I mean, she`s talking about kissing in the rain, you know, not regretting your life when it comes to an end and praying and being a devout Christian. All those things seem to point positively, in my opinion.
GRACE: Hold on. Hold on just a moment, Brandon Wade. Very quickly, Alexis Weed, was Mommy divorced yet?
WEED: She`s not divorced yet, Nancy. She`s the one holding up that divorce.
GRACE: OK, that`s a yes/no question. And you know, Mr. Wade, you said that she needs additional money to support herself. I notice occupation is "self." In other words, Mommy`s not working. Did Mommy ever think if she needed some money to get a J-O-B -- job -- instead of looking for a man to support her in exchange for being passionate? Do you normally have women that don`t work trying to get supported on line, Mr. Wade?
WADE: Some people do. A lot of women work very hard. But it`s tough to make end meet.
GRACE: Yes, I know it.
WADE: And it`s programmed in our biology for a woman to want to meet a man who can take care of them. I think there`s nothing wrong with that.
GRACE: Whoa! It`s programmed in biology for what?
WADE: It`s programmed in our genes...
GRACE: Wade!
WADE: ... for women to want to meet men...
GRACE: But is it programmed in our genes for women to want men to support them and be a sugar baby? Yes, I don`t think so!
Long story short, Mommy on line looking for love in the days and weeks after her baby goes missing. Police say she`s not a suspect.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Sky Metalwala? Police say his mother, Julia Biryukova, is still not responding to questions about the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His mother just isn`t talking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She claimed to leave Sky in the car.
METALWALA: I do believe Julia has -- she is responsible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which ran out of gas and then returned to find him missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What mother does this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have looked at this Web site, Seekingarrangement.com.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the site`s so-called "sugar babies."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was looking for a wealthy guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Appears to be Sky`s mom. Julia Biryukova looking for a sugar daddy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not good for baby Sky.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are back and taking your calls. With me, the founder of Seekingarrangement.com. Mr. Wade, another question for you. I notice that on this profile, it doesn`t mention that she is OCD, obsessive-compulsive, and that whatever sugar daddy she finds, he`s not going to be able to use the bathroom.
You know, she wouldn`t let her husband tee-tee (ph) in the family commode. And if she or anybody else went into the bathroom, she had to get Windex and clean the mirrors and the commode and the sink and the windowsills, everybody, before and after anybody urinated.
You think a potential, quote, "sugar daddy" would be interested to know he could not urinate for the duration of their date? Thoughts?
WADE: Well, I know I wouldn`t. So I`m not sure about other people.
GRACE: OK. We are taking your calls. To Keena (ph) in New Jersey. Hi, Keena. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, love.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, I wanted to tell you how much you have really inspired me. I`m only 16, and from watching your show basically every night, I`m definitely looking into becoming a prosecutor or something to help children. So I wanted to thank you for that.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And my question is, I was wondering if any of the neighbors reported seeing Sky, let`s say the week before he went missing?
GRACE: You know, Keena, your direction to go to law school is very wise because that`s an integral question in this case.
To Joe Gomez. As I recall, a neighbor claims to have seen baby Sky within the two weeks before Sky goes missing, but no relative. And the neighbor cannot pinpoint the date.
GOMEZ: That`s exactly right, Nancy. That`s exactly right. I mean, the neighbor is still very vague on whether -- you know, when he saw baby Sky. But no relatives have seen baby Sky, which strange, in the weeks before he went missing.
Police also aren`t saying if they found any dirty diapers or anything like that in Mommy`s apartment, which would also be strange, Nancy, if there weren`t any.
GRACE: You know, I want to go Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, joining us today. Dr. Manion, thank you for joining us, out of Philadelphia. Dr. Manion, we know that Mommy is obsessed with cleaning, would spend up to eight hours a day cleaning and re-cleaning what she cleaned the day before. If someone is obsessed with cleaning, can you extrapolate that they`d do a very good job of cleaning up after a crime? Mommy`s not a suspect. Go ahead, Doctor.
DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, the car is obviously a crime scene, if she`s claiming the child disappeared from the car, and she may very well have wiped the car of fingerprints, wiped the carseat of fingerprints. It would -- we`re still not sure. I don`t know if they can talk to the little girl to know, was that child in the car with her or did she give him away to somebody else before she took the drive in the car.
But you`re right, if she`s that compulsive about cleaning, I`m sure she knows how to get rid of trace evidence using hydrogen peroxide, alcohol, whatever. So I would imagine...
GRACE: You know, Dr. Manion...
MANION: ... it probably would have been wiped...
GRACE: ... I`ve gone around and around with a lot of medical examiners about whether bleach can actually -- like Chlorox, can actually get rid of DNA. What can you tell me?
MANION: Yes, I believe it can. It certainly gets rid of blood. And it has (INAUDIBLE) groups in it that would dissolve with the bleach. I believe it can, so...
GRACE: You know, a lot of doctors say that you can. Hey, Liz, get into my book, "11th Victim," real quick, because I researched that, and there is actually another solution, some type of -- I think it has lye in it, and it`s used to clean stonework, that absolutely can get rid of DNA. I think there have been some instance where DNA could survive Chlorox.
Dr. Manion, DNA can absolutely survive being put in a washer, can it not, or washer or dryer?
MANION: Yes, I believe so, depending on the stain, how intense the stain is. And like I say, because molecular biologists can use polymerase chain reaction enzymes to magnify the DNA -- it only takes a little bit of DNA -- you`re right, like, even if you washed something, if there was enough blood on it, there may be able -- the scientists may be able to use the polymerase enzymes to magnify the DNA, replicate the DNA and extract DNA from that specimen.
GRACE: You know, it`s also interesting, Dr. Manion -- joining us from Philadelphia today, medical examiner -- the police have not released the apartment back to Mommy. Obviously, they think that there is some sort of trace evidence that they have not found yet because, clearly, they would have seized anything that is visible to the naked eye. What do you make of that, Doctor?
MANION: Well, I think they`d be looking for fingerprints, and then try to see if any of her relatives or friends would match up with those fingerprints. If this -- if this does become an FBI kidnapping case -- I mean, you know, everybody keeps hoping that she just gave the child to her friend or family and she`s trying to upset the dad or something. but if the child is on the way back to Russia right now, then this is going to be a full-blown kidnapping. And I`m sure every glass, every item, every doorknob is being checked for trace evidence right now in that home where she was staying.
GRACE: Speaking of an international search, Dr. Manion -- I`m glad you brought that up. To Alexis Weed, it`s my understanding that in the last hours, cops have confirmed they do not believe baby Sky has left the country. What can you tell me?
WEED: What police are saying is that they`re doing -- they`re taking the steps necessary to know if Sky were to be transported out of the country, Nancy. The little boy doesn`t have a passport, although the mother does. She has ties in the Ukraine and in Russia.
GRACE: You know, and I see that on her Web site, that she speaks Russian, Ukrainian and English.
Everybody, we are taking your calls. To Caryn Stark, psychologist. If you could, weigh in on Mommy on line in the hours, the days following baby Sky`s disappearance, looking for a rich man to support her.
STARK: Well, she`s a sugar baby who`s not looking for her own baby? That`s so crazy. There`s something -- here she is with obsessive- compulsive disorder, and yet she`s able to clear her mind and start to try and find somebody for herself. Where are her motherly instincts, Nancy? Where are the maternals, the maternal part of her, the part that we all know that should be out searching? Where`s her family? How come there are no friends coming forth? Something is very wrong.
GRACE: At this hour, police -- at this hour, police still not releasing Mommy`s apartment back to Mommy, looking for trace evidence. What is it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sky did not have shoes on when he went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would she leave her baby boy strapped in a carseat?
GRACE: You and your wife left the baby in the car? What were you thinking?
METALWALA: That`s the worst mistake I`ve ever made.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shy has disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officials are scrutinizing the mother`s story.
GRACE: Mommy says that she apparently ran out of gas, walked over a mile to the closest gas station.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They arrived to find the vehicle in question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found 2.2 gallons of gas still in the tank.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are finally saying, yes, they suspect foul play in this disappearance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
METALWALA: She has a pattern of -- of cleaning. She cannot stand dust over the counters. So for her to be at ease, she would need to wipe out every surface of the house so she wouldn`t see any dust.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. Where is baby Sky? Back to Dr. Bill Manion. I got it. I remember researching this for my first fiction, "11th Victim." It`s muriatic acid. And the brand that I used in the book was Black Swan. I didn`t want to blurt that out before because I thought I was mixing it up with that -- what`s this -- Natalie who? Natalie -- no, no, no, the movie star.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, Portman.
GRACE: Portman. The Natalie Portman movie "Black Swan." But it actually is the muriatic acid that contains enzymes. It absolutely will get rid of DNA. What`s the difference between something containing muriatic acid and Chlorox?
MANION: Well, I think Chlorox oxidizes chemicals, so it dissolves the chemicals. It certainly works on blood. But muriatic acid must actually break the bonds, the covalent bonds in the DNA.
GRACE: Yes. That`s it.
MANION: I would imagine that`s what it (INAUDIBLE) I know that.
GRACE: That`s absolutely it, Dr. Manion. It breaks that bond, the DNA bond.
Everybody, I`m just getting in evidence that -- to you, Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert -- that Mommy logged on last night to her Web site, 11:50 PM. Explain, Ben Levitan.
LEVITAN: Well, apparently, she did log on. I`m on her profile right now, and I`ve been studying the Web site and its programming. And she is shown at 11:03 Pacific time last night, she logged onto this account. And this is absolutely surprising because it would be so easy to trace. All we`d need to know is what IP address connected last night. Obviously, I hear you saying that she`s locked out of her apartment. She was on some computer last night and did log in.
GRACE: You know what, Ben Levitan? You really are something, and I mean that in a positive way. Been Levitan just uncovering for us -- telecommunications expert out of Raleigh -- Mommy`s on line last night at 11:50, just before midnight, seeing if she`s got any bites for a sugar daddy.
Let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Shamus Goare (ph), 29, Danville, Ohio, killed, Afghanistan, awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Air Medal for Valor, loved golf, racing, vintage cars. A memorial highway named after him. Leaves behind parents Judy (ph) and Charlie (ph). Shamus Goare, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern. We will be here, in our own way seeking justice. And until then, good night, friend.
END
