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100 Arrested So Far in NYC During Occupy Wall Street Day of Action; White House Shooter Charged; Energy Secretary Chu Defends Solyndra Loan Guarantees; Energy Secretary Defends Solyndra Loans; Pot Bust Leads To Tunnel Discovery; "Occupy Wall Street" Protests
Aired November 17, 2011 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello to all of you. I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news unfolding left and right here on this Thursday. A lot happening over the course of the next two hours. We begin as always with "Rapid Fire," as T.J. mentioned. And take a look at these pictures with me.
We are watching Occupy Wall Street, what they're calling Day of Action. Protests in New York, Los Angeles, all kinds of cities in between. And so as you look at this, you can see skirmishes broke out moments ago in Lower Manhattan as the protest turned pretty tense in Zuccotti Park. Hundreds of protesters returned to the park after a morning march to Wall Street.
Police there trying to keep protesters corralled inside the park. But protesters, they've been picking up some of those police barricades. We're watching that.
Keep in mine, and here's the latest number we have, obviously this could change, 100. Around 100 people have been arrested throughout the day today. The next protest stop for Occupy Wall Street? Manhattan subways. They are targeting multiple lines. These lines go to all five boroughs. We're keeping an eye on that. That is supposed to happen within the next two hours.
Occupy protesters also flooded streets in Los Angeles, and Portland, Oregon.
Also happening right now, Newt Gingrich holding a town hall event in Florida. This as he faces accusations of lobbying for Freddie Mac and made big, big bucks doing it. Gingrich denies doing any lobbying. The former House speaker rising in the polls as the Republican race for president certainly heating up. We're monitoring that, that town hall in Florida.
Also during this hour, the man who police say may have fired shots at the White House appears in court for the very first time. The feds captured Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez just about 24 hours ago after a couple of shootings. And at least one bullet hit a White House window.
Take a look at this, though, with me. We've got some new video of the window now being replaced today at the White House. It is still not clear yet whether Ortega-Hernandez will be charged. And a grilling on Capitol Hill. Energy Secretary Steven Chu defending the $535 million in federal loan guarantees he approved for the failed solar energy company Solyndra, and telling the House panel today he was not, not pressured by the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN CHU, ENERGY SECRETARY: As secretary of energy, the final decisions on Solyndra were mine. And I made with it the best interests of the taxpayer in mind. And I want to be clear, over the course of Solyndra's loan guarantee, I did not make any decision based on political considerations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: From Capitol Hill, I want to take you now west of Chicago. Take a look at this. See that red -- hint of red in this river? So scientists have dumped non-toxic red dye into the Des Plaines River. By tracking this dye they're hoping to better predict the movements of Asian carp. The carp could decimate needed fish series if they get into Lake Michigan.
And Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's motorcade attacked by paint. Red paint, to be exact. Even eggs. Protesters got physical. She traveled through Manila, the capital of the Philippines. She is there visiting for the 60th anniversary of the U.S.-Philippines Mutual Defense Treaty. We should note Secretary -- her car itself, not hit.
Now this. Loud booms, tear gas, nearly 30,000 marching through the streets. This is Athens, Greece. They're marking the anniversary of a major uprising, but also protesting all the belt-tightening measures there. The government wants more taxes and fewer benefits for citizens to save Greece from going broke.
And here's some new video from those major storms we were talking about right around this time yesterday, slamming the southern states. Here now is the aftermath. A South Carolina home completely decimated, uprooted. Ovens, wood splinters, pieces of people's lives strewn there across these different pieces of property. Officials are saying watch out for the damage itself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF SMITH, EMS DIRECTOR, DAVIDSON COUNTY, N.C.: The debris field that we have which is quite large, sharp objects, nails, and stuff that splinter from homes, downed power lines, standing water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: At least six people were killed in those storms.
And, you know, I read about this this morning, I have never heard this. Have you ever heard of a vertical forest? Well, maybe not because it's the world's first. Coming to life here. Look at this. This is -- we're about to show you Milan, Italy, bringing these designs to its polluted city. Each apartment in this building you're about to see pop up here will have a balcony planted with trees. They're supposed to help clean the air. Two separate buildings filled with ivy and such.
And we've got a lot more to cover in the next two hours including this.
The Occupy movement bubbling at this very minute. Protesters say they want to end the reign of terror on Wall Street. But New York says it's prepared to punish anyone who breaks the law. I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN (voice-over): Chaos in Gotham. Thousands invading Wall Street, the Brooklyn Bridge, and soon, they're expected to crowd subways. We'll take you there live.
Plus...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The largest cheating scheme ever brought by the federal government.
BALDWIN: A wild blackjack bust. A dealer accused of faking shuffles and his accomplice spilling card secrets through his cigarette. We'll show you how it all went down.
And...
NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I did no lobbying of any kind. That's all I've got to say about it.
BALDWIN: ... Newt Gingrich accused of getting paid big bucks to lobby for Freddie Mac. Well, this hour, the Republican is addressing a town hall and we're watching.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: All right. Really, the story of the day, Occupy Wall Street. These protests under way in cities across the country. I'm talking Los Angeles, Portland, Dallas, and really the heart of the movement, where it all began on New York City. Mary Snow is at the birthplace of Occupy Wall Street, Zuccotti Park there in Lower Manhattan.
And, Mary, we've been watching, obviously, the video sort of coming through, through the day. Police, protesters scuffling just a couple minutes ago right around where you are. Just set the scene for me, tell me what it looks like now.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, throughout the day there have been like pockets of tension as protesters leave this park to other parts of the city and come back. And just a short while ago, we saw another flare-up if you will of skirmishes inside the park, police coming in. We're going to talk to this gentleman here who is an eyewitness to it. Lloyd, you do not want to give us your last name, but tell us what you saw leading to that skirmish?
"LLOYD": I watched the -- some of the protesters actually provoking the police. And I thought the police used a lot of restraint as I watched them flick lit cigarettes at them, and this close, blow smoke into their face and the police did nothing about it.
SNOW: And then what happened? What led to the skirmish in there?
"LLOYD": Well, these fences over here, they kept pushing -- the protesters kept pushing them and the police would put them back, and they would push them and put them back. And eventually they kept pushing it until there was, really, very little room on the sidewalk. A few officers came and started to push it. And they pushed back. The fence went over.
Someone -- I saw a policeman's hat fly off. I heard that he was hit with a battery and that's when the police came. And that's when the whole riot started.
SNOW: You saw one person injured, correct? A protester?
"LLOYD": Yes. One gentleman had his head cracked open. But I will tell you that the (INAUDIBLE) police, that they used a lot of restraint in the way they were being antagonized by the occupiers. And I do believe in the cause very much because of the corruption in Washington. But the police were really being pushed by these people.
SNOW: And you said you came down here to check out what was going on because you believe in the cause, correct?
"LLOYD": Yes. I heard it was the anniversary and today was an important day and I wanted to kind of observe to see what's going on. I was down here about a month ago when the tents were up. And I hope this cause keeps going into the spring and the summer and makes a change for us in Washington.
BALDWIN: Hey, Mary...
SNOW: Your impression of what's going on today?
"LLOYD": Well, right now -- I was disappointed to see how the protesters were treating the police, truthfully. And I think -- I hope they get better organized and some of the riff-raff that's here, just to create trouble, is not going to be here and it moves forward.
SNOW: All right. Lloyd, thank you for taking the time to speak with us -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Mary, here's my question. He talked about the riff-raff. He talks about people provoking police and tossing lit cigarettes, and we see the video, you know, it's obviously a pretty video-driven story today. My question is, for folks who are there for their own message, for a peaceful movement, are they frustrated that really, it seems that some of the fringe movements, the fringe activities are, I don't know, trumping the message, do they worry about that?
SNOW: You know, there obviously are both sides. And you talk to the protesters and they feel like they're being provoked by the police and questioned by the police. And there is a big distrust of the police, as you can imagine, among these protesters. That has been their message for quite some time.
They feel that their message, their real show of force, will come later today when they are planning a protest at the Brooklyn Bridge and they expect that to be massive.
And, yes, they are -- I mean, they expected that there would be scuffles throughout the day, and again, they always go back to the distrust of police. And they tell a very different side of the story.
But, you know, they also are making the point that they feel that their movement is much larger than a piece of real estate. And that's what they're trying to convey today.
BALDWIN: Yes. You mentioned the Brooklyn Bridge. I want to ask you about the subways as well. But first let's watch this piece of video again. You were at the park this morning. Protesters returned. Let's just watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: They hauled out someone from the park and now they have him in cuffs on the ground. But what we can see from that overhead shot is that protesters starting to lift the barricades that were inside the park. We're seeing a couple of other people being culled out of the crowd now and being arrested.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So, Mary, how many people have been arrested? What kinds of charges are they facing? And also, what's the goal later on with regard to hopping on the subways?
SNOW: So far we've heard there are about 100 arrests and most of them have been for obstructing traffic or disorderly conduct. And what these protesters will tell you is that they're heading to the subways. They're saying they don't mean to disrupt the rush hour in terms of disrupting subway service. They say they want to go down into the subways and talk to people and tell their stories. And they say that it is incorrect to say that they're trying to shut these subways down.
But in their words, they're trying to reach as many people as possible today.
BALDWIN: We'll be watching both the Brooklyn Bridge, also the subways here on this show. Mary Snow, thank you. Just quickly want to let our viewers know, we reached out to MTA. They said, we will be monitoring conditions, working closely with the NYPD to maintain a safe and secure environment for our riders.
But for now, stay in Manhattan, go to Alison Kosik at the New York Stock Exchange, who, like so many others, got up this morning, had to go to work, where a lot -- you know, nearby, Zuccotti Park, a lot of these protesters have been.
Did you have an easy time getting into work today, Alison? I mean, has there been any impact where you are?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, it was tough getting into the stock exchange here. It's like trying to get into a fortress. A lot of the streets this morning, and continue to be right now, were closed. And then when you get even closer, you've got a line of police officers checking your ID. And you've got these layers upon layers of barricades that are keeping you from going really anywhere that there isn't a police officer.
But, you know, once you get in here, you can almost forget what's going on outside. But you see some of these pictures here that I took from this morning. This gives you an idea of how fortified the stock exchange is.
Now these pictures I took from a location inside the stock exchange here. So they look a little more empty. But you can see there are police officers at almost every entrance of this building. And they're on horseback as well.
That shot right there, that's down Broad Street, that runs right into Wall Street as well. But they definitely have a show of force here just in case these protesters tried to storm this building.
BALDWIN: Alison, you know, obviously, the movement is called Occupy Wall Street. These occupiers talk about the reign of terror. You're sitting at the New York Stock Exchange. Have you had a chance today to talk to any of the traders, the people working where you are, businessmen outside the exchange? What are the rumblings among them in terms of reactions to what they're seeing today?
KOSIK: You know what, a lot of the traders that I've talked just -- you know, have sort of become used to this, believe it or not. Even though the security and the show of force that you see from police officers is much stronger today, no doubt about that. And the numbers of protesters have certainly grown.
But a lot of the traders and a lot of the people who work in this area have literally become used to this. I mean, this has been going on for two months. Security has been tight, yes. Not as tight as it is today. But it is certainly becoming a way of life here close to Wall Street -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Yes, we should point out this mass Day of Action. This is really the two-month mark of this movement. That's why this day is so significant for some of these occupiers. Alison Kosik, thank you so much.
Just want to let all of you know, we're going to keep an eye, very close, on New York. But it is not the only place where protesters are storming today. Coming up, we're going to take you live to Los Angeles where folks refuse to leave.
Also developing this hour, a regional jetliner makes an emergency landing in New York. So what happened?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The captain has disappeared in the back and I have someone with a thick foreign accent trying to access the cockpit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: That is next.
Also a coach told friends he did go to police after witnessing Jerry Sandusky allegedly raping a boy in the shower. But now police say they have no record of that. New twists in the Penn State abuse case, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Well, here's a scenario for you. You're the co-pilot of a plane. Your pilot has up and disappeared. Now someone is trying to get into the cockpit. What would you do? That happened last night as one of Delta's regional jets was about to land at New York's LaGuardia Airport. And here's what the co-pilot, who was clearly growing increasingly alarmed, said to air traffic controllers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, 6132, we're at 180 knots, 10,000. Can we leave the frequency for a minute? We're going to try to contact dispatch. The captain has disappeared in the back and I have someone with a thick foreign accent trying to access the cockpit right now, and I've got to deal with the situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: It turns out there was an emergency. That being the fact that the pilot had gotten locked in the restroom, couldn't get out. The man with what was described as a "thick foreign accent" was simply relaying the pilot's predicament to the cockpit.
But under the circumstances, the co-pilot feared it might be terrorism. He was just about to ask for fighter jets to assist. Fortunately the pilot finally busted out of the lavatory, made it back to the cockpit. The FBI talked to the man with this accent, determined he was a good guy, just simply trying to do the right thing.
Now new details in the Penn State child sex abuse case. Local police dispute claims that former Penn State grad assistant Mike McQueary came to them after allegedly seeing Jerry Sandusky having sex with a 10-year-old in a shower. Sandusky, as you know, the former Penn State defensive coordinator now charged with 40 counts of sex abuse with eight boys.
There is also this. A new judge will preside over Sandusky's next hearing. The former judge came under fire after she released Sandusky on a $100,000 bail against prosecutors' wishes.
And the firestorm grew even bigger when it was discovered that this judge had actually served as a volunteer for The Second Mile, Sandusky's charity.
Also, Anderson Cooper spoke with the mother of one of Sandusky's alleged victims. She wants to remain anonymous. So you're not going to see her. Her voice has been altered. But here is what she told Anderson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I went to the school and met with the guidance counselor and the principal. And when I did, they told me that my son had said some things about that there was a problem with Jerry and that he didn't know -- that he didn't really admit anything at that point that was -- he just said that he thought he needed to tell somebody or it would get worse.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: That's a really brave thing for him to have said.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then -- yes, it is. And then the principal said, oh, you know, Jerry has a heart of gold.
COOPER: The principal said that to you? That Jerry has a heart of gold?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes. And that -- and I said, listen, I was very upset at this point. You know, I was extremely upset. And I was basically yelling at them that they needed to call the police. I said, I want you to call the police, call Children and Youth, you know, I said, call the police right now. And I said it three times, call the police right now. And he said no, you need to think about -- they said I needed to think about the ramifications of what would happen if I did that.
COOPER: What do you think they meant by that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know. I guess -- I'm assuming what we're going through now. I don't really know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: One more development I want to pass along to you if you read The New York Times article this morning. They're reporting that three years of records are now just missing from The Second Mile charity, again, that's the charity that Sandusky founded where he met his alleged victims. Missing. Critics call it taxpayer money down the drain. But Energy Secretary Steven Chu is defending his decision to give federal money to the failed energy company Solyndra. And today, fireworks on Capitol Hill.
Plus, the feds are calling it one of the most sophisticated tunnels to smuggle drugs. It has got electricity. It has got ventilation. We're going to show you where it was found and why this bust is so big.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: All right. Breaking news, we're now learning there is a hearing under way regarding the man who was caught just about 24 hours ago in a town in Pennsylvania -- Indiana, Pennsylvania. His name, 21- year-old Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez.
Police -- Pennsylvania State Police and the Secret Service were able to track this guy down. They believe he is the guy connected to the shooting from last Friday night at the White House. I want to go to Athena Jones, she is at the White House for us.
And, Athena, you're now learning what charge this young man will face.
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke. The U.S. attorney just announced that they're going to be charging him with attempting to assassinate the president. This is according to Assistant U.S. Attorney Kitchen -- Robert Kitchen -- or Jimmy Kitchen who just said this in court a short while ago.
We're getting all of this from our CNN producer, Carol Cratty, who was there in the courtroom giving us kind of a play by play of what's going on. They're going to be charging him with attempting to assassinate the president. Of course, President Obama was traveling at the time. But the presumption is the suspect didn't know that.
It shouldn't be too much of a surprise though, because you'll remember back in 1994, Francisco Martin Duran was charged with coming up and shooting at least 29 rounds through this front gate here on the North Lawn.
He was convicted of attempting to assassinate the president. So it is not a surprise these charges, we don't know what other charges could come. We're still watching and still waiting to hear more -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Also we're learning today a little more about this man. The fact that Friday was his birthday. He had hate for the president. What else do you know?
JONES: Well, as you know, the authorities have talked to the friends and family who believe he had this intense interest in the president or the White House. We do know that his family had reported him missing way back at the end of October, on October 31st. This is his family in Idaho Falls, Idaho.
They were concerned about him. And so slowly things are beginning to come out and we'll certainly be paying more attention as the story continues.
BALDWIN: All right. Athena Jones, thank you so much, for us at the White House.
Now a grilling on Capitol Hill today. Energy Secretary Steven Chu was in the hot seat. He defended the $535 million in federal loan guarantees he approved for the failed solar energy company Solyndra.
In this fallout, an investigation was launched to find out if political favoritism played a role in funding this particular company. I want to bring in our Jessica Yellin, our senior White House correspondent. She has been following the developments.
Tell me about the hearing.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Brooke.
Well, it has been pretty testy, as you might imagine, with Steven Chu, the energy secretary, in that chair for more than four hours today so far. The Republicans on the panel have focused their questioning on whether he takes responsibility for this loan beyond simply saying that he feels that it was unfortunate but whether he'll actually apologize for making this investment to begin with.
Here is what the energy secretary said to the larger questions at stake in this investigation. Listen to Secretary Chu.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHU: As the secretary of energy, the final decisions on Solyndra were mine and I made them with the best interests of the taxpayer in mind. And I want to be clear, over the course of Solyndra's loan guarantee, I did not make any decision based on political considerations.
My decision to guarantee a loan to Solyndra was based on the analysis of professional -- experienced professionals, and on the strength of the information they had available...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN CHU, ENERGY SECRETARY: -- loan guarantee, I did not make any decision based on political considerations. My decision to guarantee a loan to Solyndra was based on the analysis of professionals, experienced professionals and on the strength of the information they had available to them at the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: As you might imagine, Brooke, over the course of four hours he was pummelled on that statement. So he fought back in his own sort of quiet soft- spoken way. But it was, it's been ongoing and it's not done yet. They're just taking a break for the moment.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Taking a break. Jessica, what about the initial charge that this was all about doing a favor for an Obama donor?
YELLIN: That's what is sort of interesting about all this, Brooke. That's where it started. What it has moved to is that has not been the focus of today's hearing.
So today, the critics have accused Secretary Chu of not having a staff that properly vetted Solyndra before giving them so much money.
And then also pumping more money into the company later and letting taxpayers sign up for a deal that if they went bankrupt gets taxpayers paid back before private investors.
So it sort of as you can see in the weeds. And you've moved away from that original charge that there was a political possible scandal about political favoritism. It has kind of creped away from the original accusation.
BALDWIN: What about Democrats? You talked to a lot of Democrats here in Washington, what do they say about all this?
YELLIN: Well, this is interesting. So even the Democrats on the panel are saying today that this is a manufactured scandal by Republicans who are hiding a political interest of their own.
The Democrats are saying Republicans are doing this because they're defending oil and gas interests who don't want to see green energy take off. Because oil and gas interests, the Democrats argue, donate to Republicans more than to Democrats.
And so therefore the Republicans are trying to stop this green energy industry, which this loan program supports. It's just such a political football right now, Brooke. It's going to keep going.
BALDWIN: All right, well, we trust you. We'll keep our eye on the ball and if it gets testier, let us know. Jessica Yellin for us in Washington. Thank you.
Now to this. Tunnels under the U.S.- Mexico border. They're so common. It's such a big problem. Did you know San Diego actually has what they call a tunnel task force?
Yes, a tunnel task force. On Tuesday, a major pot bust led this task force to this tunnel in a warehouse that connected to another warehouse in Tijuana, Mexico. Tons of marijuana were transported into the U.S. this way.
Rafael Romo following this. So many questions for you. First, let's begin with the fact that this had a pretty sophisticated tunnel. RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very sophisticated. It had everything they need to make it a very sophisticated, efficient and fast operation.
We're talking about a total of anywhere from 15 to 16 tons of marijuana just to put in it context, anywhere from $20 million to $30 million street value and it was very long.
It was the size of four football fields, 400 yards running across the border. They went 20 feet into the ground. It was four feet high by three feet wide.
And when agents went there, they saw all of the sophistication that we're talking about. Structural supports so there were no accidents. Ventilation, everything needed to have it as a smooth operation for these drug traffickers.
BALDWIN: Peeking over your shoulder just so I can see the images. You can see it on the ground and one of the warehouses. How did agents find this to begin with?
ROMO: It started in a very simple manner. There was a small cargo truck leaving a nondescript warehouse near the border that looks suspicious. Agents stopped the truck and they found three tons of marijuana and so one thing connected to the other.
And they found five tons on the Mexican side and six and a half in the warehouse on the American side. But the bottom line, and this is what agents want to say. They want to send a message to drug cartels that this is going to happen every time they tried to do this. Let's listen to what they said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM SHERMAN, DEA AGENT: I'm confident if these cartels want to continue to smuggle their drugs into the United States in this fashion, we're going to find them and we're going to find them faster than they can build them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMO: The thing is that, Brooke, they're very resilient.
BALDWIN: Who is they?
ROMO: The drug cartels. Unfortunately, the drug cartels, in the last four years, 75 tunnels have been found across the U.S./Mexico border mainly in California and Arizona. Three in the exact same area we're talking about last year. One of them had even a rail system with carts so that the drugs could just be push --
BALDWIN: Made a little easier. Well, that's why they have a tunnel task force. Rafael, thank you so much.
Coming up next, we're going to get you back to the "Occupy Wall Street" story. We'll talk to a woman who is weighing in on future of this movement. She said this is just getting started. But it has a bit of growing up to do. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Where does the "Occupy" movement go from here? Sally Kohn is a grass root strategist and political commentator. She's also the founder and CEO of the progressive think tank, Movement Vision Lab.
She's written a piece, just go to cnn.com/opinion, about really the future of the movement. Sally, good to see. Nice to have you on.
I want to ask you specifics about your point you make in this piece. But first you've been watching the pictures right along with the rest us, right? L.A., Portland, New York, what's your reaction of these massive demonstration?
SALLY KOHN, STRATEGIST AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm thrilled to see the turnout. I'm heartbroken to see what seems to be an increasingly aggressive response on the part of the police.
I mean, look, whether you agree with the protesters or not, America was a nation founded in the spirit of protest, in the spirit of ordinary people being able to come together and express their views.
We protect that in our constitution and to see police from the reports, you know, the streets and the pavement around Zuccotti Park are bloodied. They're dragging protesters away by their hair.
They're not allowing volunteer medics to come to the aid of folks. You know, police are there to protect people and to enforce safety, but they're also there to protect people's rights to protest and speak their minds will.
BALDWIN: You mentioned the parks, Zuccotti Park. I know earlier this week, it was two days ago that the protesters were essentially evicted, kicked out of that particular park.
It has happened in different parks of the country. In your cnn.com opinion piece you write this, quote, "Now that it's been kicked out of the house," it obviously being the movement, "it's time for the 99 percent movement to grow up." Sally Kohn, what do you mean by that grow up? Grow up how?
KOHN: Well, you know, movements go through phases, right? So this movement is in its infancy. As I say in the piece, the movement, which is bigger than the tactic, right? The occupation is just a tactic.
The movement for the 99 percent of people who want this country and our economy to work for everyone and not just the 1 percent, that movement, that 99 percent movement is really just in the first 1 percent.
This is the first phase. We're entering the second phase. In a way, the developments of the last couple days have forced the movement to come to terms with what it will do next. BALDWIN: You know, talked to different people. There are different messages. They're trying to get across in this movement, but some of the criticism has come. It is sort of nebulous leaderless movement.
But you say no. It is leader full. It's giving the voice to the powerless in our country. But looking ahead, you predict clusters of leaders will emerge. They won't necessarily look like who we think they will. What will they look like?
KOHN: Yes, so I do. I do think that it has been wrong to label this as leaderless. It is in fact leaderfull. It is built on the notion of social movements, really, if you go back in our history through the Civil Rights Movement, back to the founding of our country.
It gave power and voice and leadership to many and not just one or two. So that really is the tradition they're building. And as I said, it is early, it's in its infancy. You're going to see leaders emerge although they're going to be different than what we're used to seeing.
They're going to be single moms. They're going to be homeless folks. They're going to be students who just got out of college, can't find a job and are struggling with their debt. It will be a wide range of folks. What exactly and who exactly they're going to rise around is yet to be seen.
BALDWIN: The people at the crux of this movement. They say they're peaceful and passionate. You see the violence. One protester was arrested after he was seen on YouTube allegedly encouraging violence.
And one quote from the video, "they're going to see what a Molotov cocktail can do to Macy's." When you hear that and in your article you sight specifically the fringe, the fringe of the movement, what impact has this group had on the message overall?
KOHN: Yes. And to be clear, in every movement, left or right of center, I think this is sort of a largely middle of the road movement. But it has been inclusive of a very antagonistic cringe.
And a group of folks, who, you know, for the fact of the matter is for some valid reasons and some not very valid reasons, just want to confront authority, just want to cause trouble and just want to destroy property.
They want to give a hard time to police. The vast majority of people who are both in Zuccotti and the "Occupy" camps around the country and supporting this movement across the nation and across the world are peaceful folks who believe in peaceful ways to voice grievances with our economy, with Wall Street, and with our government.
And they're not represented by those few yahoos. But unfortunately, a few people wanting to cause trouble can get a lot of attention.
BALDWIN: They can indeed, can't they? Sally Kohn, thank you for explaining the movement itself and growing up, you say, how it will grow up. Thank you, Sally. Appreciate it. KOHN: Pleasure. Thank you.
BALDWIN: Still ahead, "Occupy" protesters storm New York. Find out how police are controlling the chaos and what they will do if and when the subways overflow with crowds.
Also, Newt Gingrich holding a town hall in Florida. Let's listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably registered Republicans. But having said that, I would say that one of the things that bothers a lot of people in the Tea Party Movement and all over the place in this great country is that we consistently see politicians selling us out for their party.
We are looking for someone who is going to sell out for us. Sell out for we the people. My question to you would be, how would you define yourself? Are you a conservative who is a Republican? Or are you a Republican who is a conservative?
NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think I reject that kind of distinction. I think a healthy Republican Party is inherently the conservative party in America. And has no future as anything else.
And I think conservatives want to recognize that if you run in Vermont, you probably don't run on the same themes as you run in Jacksonville. And we want to govern an entire country. Thing this is a country of over 300 million people.
And that means we want -- I always tell people. A stable governing majority is about 60 percent. That is 180 million people. You call a family reunion and all 180 million show up, I guarantee you. There will be some strange people in the majority.
So when I was speaker, I helped create a majority because I helped the Republican Party win everywhere. We won in New England. We won in Oregon. We won in Washington State. We won in California. We won in Florida. We won in Georgia.
Our goal was to win everywhere and I have a very simple definition. I want to build a coalition around one simple question. Two questions actually, one economic and one about the nature of America.
First of all, every person of every back ground who would prefer a paycheck to a food stamp. I welcome into this campaign to build a majority to get us going again.
Second, every person of every background who believes that we are endowed by our creator and this is an exceptional country, I want in our majority and then we'll figure out how we work together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Mr. Speaker. First, I want to welcome you to our great stiff Jacksonville. My question has to do with illegal immigration. Now let me repeat that, illegal immigration.
And I'm wondering, two parts to the question. I'm wondering if you know of any past U.S. president who actually solved that problem and if so, who and how?
GINGRICH: Well, they tightened up immigration dramatically in the 1920s. And although it wasn't a question at that point of illegal immigration but they had much tighter laws in the 1920s. That's primarily how they did it.
Look, we are in a very different era. We're in an era where you have worldwide instantaneous communication and you have worldwide transportation. That means you have to think about how you're going to operate as a country in a very different kind of world.
That's why if you go to newt.org and you look at the 21st Century Contract with America, you will see that we put in a provision to complete control of the border by January 1, 2014. I want to be very clear about this.
This is why I'm different. I was the longest serving teacher in the senior military for 23 years, to one and two star generals and admirals. I have written two novels on World War II. We won the Second World War between December 7th, 1941, when the Japanese attacked at Pearl Harbor and the Japanese surrendering in August of 1945, 44 months.
It is three years and eight months. Think about that. We beat Nazi Germany (inaudible). Now politicians come along and say, well, either, A, you can't control the border or it will take at least 15 years. That's nonsense.
So we're drafting a bill -- two parts to controlling the border. One, we're drafting a bill, which will suspend all federal regulations that would inhibit us from completing control by January 1, 2014. So we apply a World War II style speed and aggressiveness to get the job done.
Second, there are 23,000 Department of Homeland Security employees in the Washington area. I am prepared to move half of them to Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's very important that we get someone like you in the White House. How do you intend to counteract the bias of the media and the dirty remarks we're getting?
I've noticed that every time a Republican runs, they get slammed in the press and always take the high road. They never knock back and say, it's OK for Michelle Obama to spend $10 million of the taxpayers' money on vacations.
And if you were to make any type of a remark like that against a Democratic candidate, it would be racism. It would be bias. How will you fight the press? They are everywhere.
The other question is, what are you going to do, what can you do or plan to do about anchor babies? And more importantly -- when are we going to get our children home from the Middle East and stop wasting them on other people's countries?
GINGRICH: I think you went for three.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think that was right.
GINGRICH: Let me say, I believe we have to rethink our entire strategy in the Middle East. Because I think that it is a much harder, much longer term problem and I think tragically, we have been engaged in campaigns where our military has been tactically brilliant, incredibly heroic.
But the strategies frankly have not going to lead to the kind of victory we want and so I think we need to rethink all of that as rapidly and decisively as possible.
Let me say, second on anchor babies, if we get total control of the border it ceases to be a problem. They get here and therefore they won't be a problem in the long run.
On the news media, first of all, this may surprise some of you. You know, I was dead in June and July as a candidate, not as a person, but as a candidate. And now I'm apparently not dead. And according to Fox last night, I'm in first place.
But I think realistically I'm tied with Romney. We're both somewhere in about the -- but here's the key thing to remember. We all complained correctly when the news media failed to investigate Barack Obama.
We complained when they refused to look at William Ayers. We complained when they didn't actually explain what it was all about and what community organizer meant. We were right to complain about that.
So now they're actually doing for us what they wouldn't do for Obama. They're doing it partly out of bias. I understand that and I understand there are places like MSNBC that are essentially the Obama re-election team, but that's fine.
This is a free society. You can also say frankly that Fox tends to be nicer than to Obama. In the next three weeks, I predict to you we'll have all sorts of questions about me and it's fine. You cannot ask the people of the United States to loan you the most powerful governmental job in the world.
Particularly on a campaign that is promising very drama change, and not have them vet you carefully and thoroughly. And what you're going to discover is that in the 12 years that I stepped down that was in private life, in fact, I worked -- I worked extraordinarily hard.
And that we were deeply committed to being citizens. We made seven documentary films that helped explain America, six of them. One explains Pope John Paul II coming back to Poland in 1979 to defeat the soviet empires.
A series of books. We worked with a wide range of companies. I help found four small businesses and that's fine. I will cheerfully answer every single question they ask. And at the end of it, you will be relevantly convinced, I believe, that I did no lobbying of any kind.
I did no influence peddling. But the truth is, if you have the reputation and I'm not going to use the words because they'll distort them. If you just take what people say about me in the debates and say to yourself, gee, is that a person somebody might have hired for advice.
I think it's hard to argue that they should have hired someone who was truly dumb. So I'm happy to tell you, I have been a very successful -- I'll not as successful as Mitt, but that's not a comment about Mitt.
I would have liked to have been that successful as Mitt, but I've been a very hard working business person. I think I represent the wing of America that believes that hard work and success is good. Not bad and I'm happy to answer for it.
BALDWIN: We're listening to a little of the Q & A with former House Speaker Newt Gingrich. This is all part of a town hall in Jacksonville, Florida. This whole thing was sponsored by the First Coast Tea Party.
Let's talk a little about Newt Gingrich with Wolf Blitzer who just so happens to be next to me here in Atlanta today. He said himself. He said I was dead as a candidate in June and July.
I remember you and I talking about that back in the summer. His senior staffers had left. He went on a cruise with his wife around the Mediterranean. He had some critical words for Paul Ryan and now all of a sudden he's risen because of what we've seen with Perry, with Cain.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": Michele Bachmann.
BALDWIN: Does he have staying power?
BLITZER: He is a very, very smart guy. I covered him when he was speaker in the '90s, when he had all the fights with Bill Clinton. He knows his stuff well. You forgot to mention the Tiffany's issue which came up.
That line of credit he had for hundreds of thousands of dollars at Tiffany's. That caused a big stir and he's right, Newt Gingrich. A lot of the pundits, almost everyone thought his campaign isn't going anywhere.
He went on that two-week cruise to the eastern Mediterranean two weeks after he announced he was running for president of the United States. And everybody said, is he serious? Why is he going?
But as Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann and Herman Cain have found themselves in trouble, a lot of Republicans don't like, at least yet, they don't like Mitt Romney. They're looking for someone else.
And he is emerging right now as potentially that other non-Mitt Romney and so that's why he is going up in the polls. BALDWIN: So as a candidate emerges and goes up in the polls. You know what that means, that means new scrutiny, additional scrutiny.
This whole issue that really sort of popped up over the weekend with the debates with regard to his time, the Gingrich Group, this consulting firm, his allegations, the accusations that he lobbied for Freddie Mac and he's saying no.
I think the quote was, he was acting as historian, giving advice. How might that, and the continued questions from reporters hurt him in his rise?
BLITZER: Well, he has to come totally clean on this. He wants to be president of United States. He has to release all the documents because originally he said we'll try and then his spokesman said they're not releasing anything else.
But if you make as much as $1.8 million over five years, $1.8 million, the Gingrich Group really is Newt Gingrich for all practical purposes. They were hiring him for advice. Now he wasn't formerly registered with Congress as a lobbyist so that's why he said he never did any lobbying.
But he was giving them serious advice. That's why they were paying him I think like $20,000 or $30,000 a month. So you get paid by Freddie Mac $20,000 or $30,000 a month, you're doing something that they want and so he's going to have explain all of that.
I'm sure he will. You just heard him say some nice things about the news media that we're doing our job. We're vetting these Republicans who want to be the next president of the United States. If he's moving up, he is going to be vetted.
BALDWIN: OK, Wolf, we're going to see you next hour. We're going to explain again why you're here in Atlanta.
BLITZER: You know why I'm here.
BALDWIN: And our evening at the BET.
BLITZER: Right, the Soul Train Awards. We're going to talk about it next hour. You've got something cooking as we mentioned yesterday. We'll talk next hour. Wolf Blitzer, thank you.
Now to this as we continue to cover these "Occupy Wall Street," this massive movement, this massive day of activity really throughout the country.
Occupiers plan to storm more than a dozen subway stations throughout New York City. We're talking about lines that affect routes to all five Burroughs. So what are police doing to prepare?
Former police detective, Mike Brooks is here. We're going to talk about the law enforcement angle coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: All right, welcome back. "Occupy Wall Street" is making two months of protests with the day of action across the country, Los Angeles, Portland, Oregon, Dallas, Texas, the epicenter of the movement though, you know, New York.
Within just this past hour, you have protesters, police clashing there at Zuccotti Park. Mike Brooks is a law enforcement analyst for our sister network, HLN.
Mike, I mean, you worked with metropolitan police in D.C. 27 years. You've worked certainly in Washington dealing with protesters and the like. How do you prepare for a day like this?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, you know, there's a lot of intelligence work that's done. You know, sometimes you want to meet with the leadership if you can identify the leadership of these different groups and try to say, OK.
Look, we're here to protect you. We're here to protect the citizens of the city whether it be New York, Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, Portland, because you want to make sure that these people are able to conduct their first amendment right to protest.
But again, we talk about the grassroots organizer you spoke with moments ago, about sometimes there's always a fringe movement. Today we've had, I know of at least five NYPD officers that have been injured.
BALDWIN: Seven. Just got the word.
BROOKS: Seven, OK, that's a new one.
BALDWIN: Seven injured, 175 arrests and to your point about this, even the activist I had on a moment ago said you have the fringe group. Whether it is the "Occupy," whatever massive movement you have. You have the sliver of the population. And all it takes is one rock, one Molotov cocktail and it's a game changer.
BROOKS: It is. You know, the one officer hit by a bottle. Another one sprayed in the face with liquid. We're hearing it was vinegar. But, you know, we're coming up an important time in New York City now.
They're talking about trying to shut the subways down, which is extremely dangerous if you get down in the tunnel because of the electricity running through there and your first responders, the police, the fire fighters so if somebody goes on the tracks, they have to go down to try to rescue them and then you have the Brooklyn Bridge.
BALDWIN: Well, let me back you up, back to the subways, because you do talk to these Occupiers, and they say, we don't want to shut the subway system down. They say that.
BROOKS: They say that.
BALDWIN: The issue is, though, when you -- obviously, you have a max capacity on a subway. Only so many people can get on before the whole thing has to shut down. So how do you as a member of the New York police force protect the folks who are just trying to go home?
BROOKS: Well, I touched on intelligence a little bit.
What you do is -- I know what they're doing and what we used to do in D.C. and what they're doing in D.C. today, too. Take a look at the social media. That's how these demonstrators are organizing.
And they're communicating with each other through social media. So you have people, officers and detectives who are monitoring those kind of things, a lot of other plainclothes officers. You see how groups are moving through the city. And again, you don't want to make sure the city gets shut down, because a lot of the 99 percent that these people represent use public transportation every day in New York City.
BALDWIN: We're going to watch the subway angle. That should be happening within the next hour.
BROOKS: Exactly.
BALDWIN: Mike Brooks, thank you so much.
BROOKS: Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Good to have you on the show.
