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Nancy Grace
Missouri Mother Admits Beating Missing Infant Son to Death
Aired November 17, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live to the heartland. Mommy parties into the night, then sleeps until 11:00 AM. She says when she finally wakes up, her 13-month-old baby boy, Tyler, gone, missing from his own crib. Grandmommy goes hysterical. Police rush to the scene.
Bombshell tonight. Neighbors shocked to discover 13-month-old baby Tyler, his body dumped in a cemetery. As we go to air, we uncover that in the midst of it all, Mommy actually takes a nap, still sleepy after a night on the town. A nap while your neighbors find your baby`s body? OK, sleeping beauty, forget that prince and the castle. You`re headed to jail!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The story shocking! Police respond to a call from 20-year-old mom Shelby Dasher, who says she put her 13-month-old baby boy, Tyler, to bed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tyler Dasher.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One boy who lost his life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boy who loved to smile.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of unanswered questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when she wakes up, he was gone. Police quickly feel something isn`t right. But what they discover is disturbing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boy, whose body was found near a cemetery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For absolutely no reason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
-- why...
-- why...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cause of death is multiple blunt force trauma.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question on everyone`s mind, Why? Candles lit for a life that never should have been taken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we need to remember all of the children who have lost their lives due to abuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Mommy parties into the night, then sleeps in until 11:00 AM. When Mommy finally wakes up, she says her 13-month-old baby boy, Tyler, is gone, missing from his own crib. As we go to air tonight, we uncover that in the midst of all of this, Mommy actually takes a nap, still sleepy after a night out on the town.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement says 20-year-old mom Shelby Dasher claimed her 13-month-old son, Tyler, vanished from his crib.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This just wasn`t a missing person. There was a lot more to this than just a baby that was discovered, you know, missing out of a bed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigation began when the body was located. The medical examiner has determined that the cause of death is multiple blunt force trauma.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he could talk, this is just the beginning of what he would say. And I want to give him a voice because he didn`t have one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why? Why did you do this to Tyler? Why? He`s only a baby!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. While Mommy takes a beauty nap, neighbors are discovering her baby boy`s body dumped like trash near a local cemetery. Take a look at this 13-month-old baby boy. The autopsy confirms the child was beaten to death, blunt force trauma to the head, to the neck, to the body, this child only 13 months old.
We are taking your calls. I want to go straight out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, who`s been following the story. Ellie, I need to hear the timeline again, please.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Well, what the mother initially told police is that she put Tyler to bed...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Wait! Wait! Wait! Did you say initially...
JOSTAD: Correct.
GRACE: ... meaning her story changed?
JOSTAD: Exactly.
GRACE: OK, go ahead. Sorry.
JOSTAD: Yes. So initially, she tells police that Monday night about 10:00 PM, she puts her little boy to bed. She goes out about 10:30 with some male friends, comes home around 2:30 in the morning. She said that she overslept. She finally woke up...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait a minute! Wait a minute! I`m looking at the calendar, Ellie. This is on a Sunday night?
JOSTAD: No, no, no. This is a Monday night, Nancy, going into Tuesday morning.
GRACE: Oh, yes. You`re right. Go ahead. Thank you.
JOSTAD: So she says she wakes up -- finally wakes up around 11:00 AM on Tuesday morning. She goes to wake up her son. She`s surprised that he`s also...
GRACE: Ellie! Ellie! Ellie! hold on! Doesn`t anybody have to go to work?
JOSTAD: Well...
GRACE: I mean, they go out -- I was a little happier when I wasn`t sure whether it was a Saturday or Sunday. So you`re telling me this is a Monday night, nobody has to get up and go to work the next morning? They actually go out and start partying at 10:30?
JOSTAD: Right. Well, apparently, Shelby Dasher, the little boy`s mother, didn`t have to go to work. But keep in mind, Nancy, that the grandmother, who also lives in the home, she did get up and go to work about 7:30 in the morning. But when the mother wakes up around 11:00, she says she goes into the boy`s room. She discovers that he is missing, gone from her crib. She calls police and they launch a massive search.
GRACE: OK, take it from there, Ell. So Mommy, in the middle of all this, takes a nap. She goes back to sleep while her child is missing. I want to hear about the discovery of the baby`s body.
JOSTAD: Right. Well, Nancy, later that same day, at just about 3:30 that afternoon, less than a mile -- to me, it looked like it was about 1,000 yards or so from the family`s house -- a couple is out walking dogs in this park. It`s a wooded area. There`s a cemetery nearby. And they discovered a little boy`s body hidden in the woods. Police say it is little Tyler Dasher.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Jessica in Illinois. Hi, Jessica. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just want you to know I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, I know there are safe havens for newborns if mothers don`t want them. But is there places that parents could drop, like, older children, like toddlers off and stuff if they didn`t want them without any repercussions or getting in trouble?
GRACE: OK, I`m having a hard time hearing you, but I think what you`re talking about -- Ellie, could you hear her correctly?
JOSTAD: Yes.
GRACE: She`s talking about, like, a safe haven drop-off?
JOSTAD: Right. Exactly. She`s asking about safe havens laws. And Nancy, I`m going to look up Missouri right now, but to my knowledge, there is no state that allows you to drop off a child that`s older than a year old.
GRACE: You know what? The safe haven laws that Jessica in Illinois are -- she`s talking about is where if you don`t want your child, to discourage beating your child or killing your child or harming your child, you can leave your child at places called safe havens under the law -- for instance, a fire department, a hospital, a police station -- no questions asked, in an effort to save the child.
To Michael Calhoun, reporter KMOX, joining us out of St. Louis tonight. Michael, so bottom line, while Mommy goes back to sleep, her child is found dead. What happens next, Michael Calhoun?
MICHAEL CALHOUN, KMOX NEWSRADIO (via telephone): Nancy, the police had a massive response to this. There were dogs on the street. There were police officers in fatigues walking down the street, walking through back yards, police helicopters in the air, dozens of neighbors, of family, friends standing in the middle of street, crying, holding each other.
And they all -- those family and friends, they repeated to themselves over and over again, How could this have happened? Who took this baby? And they had great things to say about the mother, so it was the biggest shock in the world to them to get the news a day later that the mother confessed to being behind it.
GRACE: The mother confesses to the beating death of her 13-month-old baby boy. You know what? I want to take him. Look at this child, 13 months old. I -- I don`t understand it.
To Christine Byers, police reporter, "St. Louis Post-Dispatch." Why?
CHRISTINE BYERS, "ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH" (via telephone): Well, Nancy, that`s what police are trying to determine at this time. It`s clear that she is cooperating with the investigation at this point. We`ve been told that she has been taken back to the scene to retrace the steps of her walk in the woods before disposing of the body. But that is a very good question tonight.
GRACE: Ellie, what do we know?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, apparently, what happened is she eventually changes this story. Police say that they doubted a baby would still be sleeping at 11:00 o`clock in the morning. Veteran investigators that were there on the scene said this didn`t add up. There was no forced entry in the home. And they say -- police say that she did eventually confess and admit that she beat her son.
GRACE: But why, Ellie? Why?
JOSTAD: Well, apparently, she says that after she`d been out partying, she got up that morning, the little boy wouldn`t cooperate. He wouldn`t lay back down and go back to sleep. He was crying. She apparently acted, prosecutors say, likely out of frustration and anger, beat her son, hit him in the body and in the head. The medical examiner says that it was blunt force trauma to his head that killed the little boy.
GRACE: County police detectives interview Shelby Dasher, who states she had repeatedly struck Tyler in the head and body, causing his death, when she could not get Tyler to stay quiet in his crib. She states she then hid Tyler`s body in the bushes, where he was later discovered.
Ellie, let me get something straight. So after she beats her baby to death, hides the body in a cemetery, she goes home and takes a nap?
JOSTAD: That`s right, Nancy. Police say that`s what she told them she did. They are still working, though, to figure out this timeline. The one thing that`s not clear -- remember, we`ve got a 10-hour gap, at least a 10-hour gap, between 10:00 PM (SIC), when she goes to bed and when she reports the boy missing.
GRACE: Mommy strikes her baby repeatedly, beats the baby to death, takes the baby, hides the body, the 13-month-old body, in a cemetery, then goes home and takes a nap. Bombshell tonight. Mommy`s going to hell!
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me out of Atlanta, Peter Odom, Kirby Clements. OK, Peter, give me your best defense.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, this is such a tragic story, but taking the mom`s side...
GRACE: It`s actually a murder.
ODOM: Yes. The -- if I were representing this mother, I would be looking just to -- I mean, it`s very difficult evidence against her. It sounds like they`ve got a body. They`ve got forensic evidence. And they`ve got a confession from her. So now it`s a question of minimizing the damage to her. It sounds like this is something that was the result of frustration, rather than premeditation.
GRACE: Oh, you know what? Kirby Clements, let`s just back it up just about 30 seconds. And let`s just all get straight about the law, all right? Odom just gives his defense of frustration. OK, well, last I looked, Kirby Clements, "I got mad and snapped" is not a defense. As a matter of fact, Kirby Clements, isn`t it true that under the law, premeditation can be formed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye? In the time it takes you to raise a gun and pull the trigger, that is long enough under the law to form intent to kill. And in this case, there was blow after blow after blow. That is enough time to inform intent to kill, is it not, Kirby Clements?
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It can be, Nancy. However, the idea that she was under a lot of stress and duress and all the things that we have, you can still have...
GRACE: Duress?
CLEMENTS: Duress from the...
GRACE: You`re a father. Both of you...
CLEMENTS: ... drinking the night before.
GRACE: ... are fathers! You`ve both had frustrating moments raising children. You`ve both got a house full of kids. You never beat your children to death. We`re all frustrated! But beating a child to death and leaving its body in a cemetery -- Mommy`s going to hell with a stopover in the penitentiary!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Handling the death of a small child is always one of the absolute worst-case scenarios.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A charge of murder in the second degree against Shelby Dasher.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dasher allegedly admitted to cops she couldn`t get her baby to stay quiet in his crib.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before disposing of the body, she had repeatedly struck the baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Struck him repeatedly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why you did this to Tyler? Why? He`s only a baby!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hid Tyler`s body right by a graveyard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To leave a child in that condition in a wooded area like this needs to be dealt with severely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another child has to die at the hands of a mother? It`s a shame.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One boy who lost his life for absolutely no reason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dasher behind bars on half a million dollars bond, charged with second degree murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounds to me it`s a pretty sick person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I actually feel sick to my stomach thinking about this baby, a 13-month-old baby in his crib, crying, all alone with a Mommy full of rage, beating him to death. There`s nowhere for him to go. He can`t crawl out of his crib. And the more he cries, the more she beats him, over and over in the head, the face, the body, until he`s dead.
Then Mommy takes the baby and dumps his body, his beautiful little body, in a local cemetery. Then Mommy goes back home and takes a nap. She`s still tired from her night out on the town until 2:30 in the morning.
We are taking your calls. Out to Marc Klaas, president, founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, you know, it`s bad enough when the abductor or the killer is a stranger. But when the killer is Mommy, Marc Klaas?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Nancy, in this post-Casey Anthony era, I think that these disturbed women have learned or disturbed parents have learned that if they just keep their mouths shut that they may, indeed, be able to get away with murder.
So I think at least this woman had a conscience. At least this woman admitted to what she had done.
And the other thing that really stands out for me is the amazing law enforcement response we`re seeing in case after case after case of missing children now. They pull out all of the stops. They put helicopters in the air, get dogs on the ground, get boots on the ground and really give it every effort that they can.
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, I have very rarely disagreed with you -- Marc Klaas a crime victim. His daughter, Polly, abducted, then murdered. He has been a tireless crusader ever since Polly`s death.
But I got to disagree with you about Mommy having a conscience. She only told the truth after cops had her cornered, after they busted her in one lie after the next. Mommy is the one who went home and took a nap after she killed her baby and threw his body in a local cemetery, hiding it behind bushes!
To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." A conscience? I don`t understand that! This is one of the first times I`ve ever disagreed with Marc Klaas! A conscience?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I never disagree with Marc Klaas, but I think that what we`re seeing is Mommy is just not as highly organized a sociopath as Casey Anthony was, so she buckled and caved under the police investigation.
I know why she took that nap. She took that nap because she was relieved her child was gone. And I don`t think she beat the child because the child was crying. She beat him because she wanted him dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of our first supervisors on the scene was a very experienced lieutenant who used to for most -- most of his career handle child abuse cases. So he recognized rather quickly that this just wasn`t a missing person, that there was a lot more to this than just a baby that was discovered, you know, missing out of a bed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement says 20-year-old mom Shelby Dasher claimed her 13-month-old son Tyler vanished from his crib.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) That`s what we all want to know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within hours, Dasher allegedly admitted to cops she couldn`t get her baby to stay quiet in his crib, so she struck him repeatedly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One former friend of Shelby Dasher wore a sign asking the question on everyone`s mind. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then hid Tyler`s body right by a graveyard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I want to give him a voice because he didn`t have one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight, Dasher behind bars on half a million dollars bond.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a shame.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s still an awful lot left to be done. That will continue. The investigation certainly isn`t over. At this point, at least, there`s no indication -- no indication that we have that there`s anyone else involved in this case, other than Ms. Dasher, and the charge -- if I didn`t say that, the charge is one of murder in the second degree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Mommy admits that she partied into the night, gets home around 2:30 -- this is on a school night -- wakes up at 11:00 AM. At first, she says her baby is missing from his crib.
When neighbors make the shocking discovery of the baby`s body at a local cemetery hidden behind bushes, Mommy finally -- yes, go ahead and stick your tongue out with that earring in it! Mommy finally cracks and admits she wanted to go back to sleep, and when the baby wouldn`t go back to sleep, she beat him to death. While neighbors find the body, Mommy is taking a nap. You know what, Mommy? You`ll have plenty of time to sleep in the penitentiary!
We are taking your calls. But to Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "The Profiler." Pat, I`m not buying into Marc Klaas, She`s got a conscience. If she had a conscience, why would she take a map while neighbors discover the baby`s dead body hidden in bushes at a graveyard?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I`m with you, Nancy. I rarely also disagree with Marc. But I think what we have is a tendency to give women a break, mothers a break, with that frustration garbage. I mean, this is a cold-blooded woman, very, very cold-blooded.
She even had help. She had her mother helping her take care of the child. She got to go out for the evening. A lot of mothers don`t have that opportunity. I certainly didn`t in the first year my child was born. I was home with her all the time because my parents were on the other side of the nation!
She killed the child because the child got in her way and she wanted to be free.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say they knew the story just didn`t add up. Within hours, dasher allegedly admitted to cops she couldn`t get her baby to stay quiet in his crib, so she struck him repeatedly, and then hid Tyler`s body right by a graveyard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Body as you know is recovered in the -- not very far from her house.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There were family members and friends, including those who defended Tyler Dasher`s mother, right up until the moment prosecutors charged her with murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re all so let down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus, an investigative detail. If we knew the condition of the body, we really do need to keep that confidential at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he could talk, this is just the beginning of what he would say, and I want to give him a voice. Since he didn`t have one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t go into all the details and all the evidence was there. The -- as you know, the rules don`t allow all that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what was going on in your emotions, like what -- you know what triggered it? Nothing we all want to know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point at least there is no indication that -- no indication that we have that there is anyone else involved in this case other than Miss Dasher, and the charge -- I didn`t say that the charge is one of murder in the second degree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Welcome back, everyone.
Mommy first tells police that after a night of heavy partying until 2:30 a.m., she comes home and takes a nap that morning, then her baby is gone from his crib. After police questioning she finally breaks down and says she was angry when her baby wouldn`t go back to sleep so she could get her beauty rest. And she struck the baby repeatedly.
The head, the neck, the face, the baby found by neighbors -- his body thrown into a local graveyard while mommy naps.
We are taking your calls. But first to Paul Penzone, former sergeant, Phoenix PD, child advocate.
Paul, weight in.
PAUL PENZONE, DIRECT OF PREVENTION PROGRAMS, CHILDHELP.ORG, FMR. SERGEANT, PHOENIX PD: I`m just in complete agreement to your profile, Nancy. We got to this point where we`re losing babies five a day if you look at this. It`s not because of some kind of stress. Just because the babies became inconvenient for the mothers.
Can we just stop making excuses and we`re looking for reasons to justify it? This is cold blooded murder. And we need to put a stop to it.
GRACE: You know speaking of cold-blooded murder, my question is, why is mommy only charged with second degree?
Ellie, in that jurisdiction, does that equal manslaughter?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: No, Nancy, it`s second-degree murder in the way that the prosecutor described it as this is a hot blooded murder. As in one committed in the heat of passion as supposed to a cold blooded premeditated first-degree murder. That`s the distinction --
GRACE: I disagree. I disagree.
What`s the sentence for second-degree in that jurisdiction?
JOSTAD: Let me check on that but I -- believe it is up to life.
GRACE: You know, another thing, speaking of not being able to have time to form intent, such as when you pull a gun and pull the trigger. That takes less time than beating a baby to death.
Let`s go to Dr. Vincent Dimaio, former chief medical examiner, Behar County, renowned forensic pathologist, joining us out San Antonio.
Dr. Dimaio, thank you for being with us. I think this is murder one. And it`s my understanding that right now this is just the police charge, how they arrest you. And the grand jury can still indict her on murder one. This is just what the police have charged her for an arrest.
So, Dr. Dimaio, if the mom is just using her hands to beat the child to death, how long do you think that would take? How many blows would it take?
DR. VINCENT DIMAIO, M.D., FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BEXAR COUNTY, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Oh, it would take scores of blows. I mean usually what they do is they pick the child up and throw it on the floor or throw it against the wall and then pick it up again, but you know to the hands -- I mean, look, it`s a woman, it`s a small child. Scores of blows if it`s just the hand. This is not a --
GRACE: You know, Dr. Dimaio, for the baby to have died from blunt force trauma to the head, the face, the neck, the body, that was a severe beating, Dr. Dimaio.
DIMAIO: Right. This is not one blow or two blows or three blows. It`s -- you know, you`re talking way up there, you know, with double digits of blows.
GRACE: Double-digit blows. But police have only charged mommy with murder two, not murder one? I don`t understand it.
Ellie, back to you. They are saying that she didn`t have time to form intent? Because under the law you can form intent in the twinkling of an eye, as fast as it takes me to snap my fingers, intent to kill can be formed. That`s how people shoot a gun. And they`re charged with murder one.
What is different about this other than the victim is a baby?
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. And that`s a question people are asking the prosecutors. If there were multiple blows here, obviously you`d assume that intent could be formed between one -- for the first blow and the subsequent blows.
Also this case is going to go to a grand jury so there is a chance I assume that a grand jury can return a higher charge than second degree murder that she`s currently charged with.
GRACE: OK, Liz, get me the phone numbers, please, for the St. Louis County Police Department and the County Prosecutor`s Office. Because they need to know what the public thinks about mommy getting a free ride with second-degree murder when clearly on these facts as outlined here in court documents, mommy landed repeated blows.
Liz, can you hear me? Is that a yes, no, or a maybe? Give me those numbers.
Out to the lines, Amy in Pennsylvania. Hi, Amy. What`s your question, dear?
AMY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi. Really no words for it. I -- I am really hoping she has some type of mental illness at this point.
GRACE: Well, all I know, Amy this Pennsylvania, is she went out that night, on a school night, 10:30, party until 2:30, came home and just wanted to go to sleep. One of her favorite comedian Shticks is - I`m not a morning person, don`t pull the covers off my head, or I will kill you.
Her baby boy would not let her go to sleep and now he`s dead. His body found thrown away like trash in a local graveyard. A 13-month-old baby. No indication of mental illness. As a matter of fact, just hours ago, let me pull this up.
Ellie, she was in court.
Let`s go out to Michael Calhoun, KMOX.
Michael, she was in court. The judge entered a plea of not guilty for her. What? She wouldn`t speak for herself, Michael?
MICHAEL CALHOUN, REPORTER, KMOX NEWSRADIO: The judge entered a plea. She did not have an attorney, she was appointed a public defender, and I also want to note that the day -- the afternoon that this massive police operation was going on, she was spotted in the middle of the street. People didn`t recognize her as the mother because she was light hearted, she had a smile on her face at times, she was walking around with investigators and did not look as -- did not have that distraught look on her face that you would expect a mother to have if she wakes up and finds her baby is not in her crib.
GRACE: Dr. Bethany Marshall, did you hear that?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": You know, Nancy --
GRACE: That nobody even knew as mommy in the crowd because she`s smiling and happy?
MARSHALL: I think she was relieved the baby was gone.
Nancy, what we know about homicide and infanticide is the perpetrator has tremendous relief after the commission of the crime. That relief can last from six months to three years. I think what happened is she has a personality disorder, severe. She was out the night before with a bunch of boys.
I think what happened, she wanted to have sex with someone, spend the night with someone. She had a crush on somebody. She wanted that little boy out of the way so that she could have a young woman`s life.
It`s the Casey Anthony syndrome, isn`t it? It`s the same thing we saw out on the stripper pole dancing, partying, and then poof, the child is gone. This thing about oh, he was crying so I had to beat him, she made that up after the fact. The fact is, this was a cruel, sustained attack. There was no soft kill. She didn`t poison him, she didn`t put a pillow over his face. What we see some mothers do. She chose the most cruel and heinous way to do this.
GRACE: Everyone, as we go to break, the "Family Album" is back. Show your family photos with us through iReport Family Album. It could be featured in a special segment. Go to hlnTV.com/Nancygrace and click on Nancy`s family album.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the medical examiner there`s at least a preliminary indication no evidence of prior abuse, prior injuries, healing of old wounds, that sort of thing that we see far too often in cases like no indication of that in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The story is shocking. Police respond to a call from 20-year-old mom Shelby Dasher who says she put her 13-month-old baby boy Tyler to bed.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Tyler Dasher --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One boy who lost his life.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The boy who loved to smile.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of unanswered questions.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When she wakes up, he was gone. Police quickly feel something isn`t right. But what they discover is disturbing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But the boy, whose body was found, near a cemetery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For absolutely no reason.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why? Why? Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cause of death is multiple blunt force trauma?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question on everyone`s mind, why? Candles were lit for a life that never should have been taken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we need to remember all of the children who lost their lives due to abuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. I`ve got those numbers for you. Why should mommy get a free ride in a murder two charge? She could be out in -- if she gets 20, she`ll be out six or seven years. Her baby is never going to get out of that coffin. All right? I know that`s a harsh way to phrase it but it is the truth.
Mommy admits she beats her baby to death when it went go back to sleep. She`s tired after a night of partying until 2:30 a.m. This baby found brutally beaten to death. His body dumped in a local graveyard and while neighbors discover the body, mommy is back home having a beauty nap. After partying all night long.
Only when cops confront her with inconsistencies in her story does mommy break down and tell the truth. According to our medical examiner, it took double-digit blows to kill this 13-month-old baby boy, now an angel.
If you disagree with a light charge like murder two, as I do, here`s the numbers. The local district attorney, Bob McCulloch, St. Louis County prosecutor. 314-615-2600. Repeat. 314-615-2600. Local cops, 314-889- 2341.
Let your voice be heard. On behalf of this 13-month-old baby boy.
Unleash the lawyers. Peter Odom, Kirby Clements.
You know, this jurisdiction is death penalty. Death by needle. And I think that this murder fits perfectly in Subsection 7, which is a vial or heinous murder, Peter Odom.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, the prosecutors in the case and the police officers who know the facts best, who are not driven by outrage or passion, have decided this is second degree murder, not first.
GRACE: Well, that`s not true. That`s not true.
ODOM: And hopefully they won`t be -- hopefully they --
GRACE: That`s what the cops -- no, no, no. That`s not true, Peter. Peter, that`s only the charge from the police arrest. She has not been formally charged at grand jury. That`s like when -- Everybody, Peter and Kirby both veteran prosecutors before they became defense attorneys. They both tried a lot of cases, I`ve seen them do it myself.
Peter, this is still just the cops charged like when you`re arrested for cocaine then they find out it was 50 hits and they get --
ODOM: Yes. A booking charge.
GRACE: -- indicted for trafficking? Yes.
ODOM: A booking charge.
GRACE: There is still time for a murder one. Yes.
ODOM: There is, but there`s also a chance for the grand jury to reduce the charge to something like manslaughter, which is very common in these cases, where the killing is obviously --
GRACE: That doesn`t mean it`s right.
ODOM: Well, you disagree with it, Nancy, and I can respectfully disagree with you. As the prosecutors in this case apparently do. You`re right.
GRACE: Well, actually I wish you would quit misstating the facts.
Kirby Clements, this is just what she was arrested on. This is going to a grand jury and they will determine what charge will be presented to a jury.
And Kirby and Peter, let me remind both of you that I observed with my own two eyes and ears, both of you -- both of you seek the highest possible charge at grand jury so you could then offer the jury a series of charges at trial.
If she`s charged with murder one, Kirby, a jury can come back on murder two, voluntary, involuntary, aggravated assault, simple battery, or not guilty. But if they don`t charge her with murder one, the jury will never have that choice. I have seen both of you do this so don`t get on TV and tell me it`s crazy. All right?
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That may be true but you`ve got to factor in -- I think you`re confusing intent to kill and premeditation. And in this situation that doesn`t appear to be premeditation.
GRACE: I`m not confusing anything. No, no, no. The law just only requires --
CLEMENTS: Well, you said she beat the baby to death. We agreed.
GRACE: Premeditation can be formed in the twinkling of an eye, Kirby.
CLEMENTS: No, intent to kill can be formed.
GRACE: It`s not like a long-drawn out plan. For murder one, you do not have to have a long, drawn-out plan like poisoning someone over weeks and months. That is how all three of us have gotten convictions when somebody gets mad, pulls the gun, pulls the trigger. That`s murder one. We`ve all tried cases and gotten convictions on those facts. Have you not, Kirby Clements?
CLEMENTS: I have. But you know what? That person had a gun so already death was in the -- was in the -- in the equation.
GRACE: OK.
CLEMENTS: But in this situation, it seems --
GRACE: You know what?
CLEMENTS: It`s a different scenario.
GRACE: You know what, Kirby?
CLEMENTS: Yes, Nancy.
GRACE: Don`t start with me. Because you`ve also tried cases where fists and hands were used as a lethal weapon. Have you not?
CLEMENTS: I have, that is true.
GRACE: Of course you have, we all three have. So here, a gun versus fist, no difference.
OK, you know what? This is crazy talk.
To Bethany Marshall, why do people give mommies breaks? What? We don`t want to imagine our own mommy committing a crime? Is that some psychological, psychiatric thing? I can`t explain?
MARSHALL: We don`t want to think there are any bad mommies out there. And Nancy, I think the police officers were seduced into believing this young woman`s story that she got frustrated because the baby was crying. I think as a nation we`ve lost our minds together.
Yes, there can be bad mommies in terms of premeditation. In my field, we don`t think anybody naps, we don`t really look at it that way. We think that if someone commits homicide, they contemplate it at an unconscious level if not conscious for a long, long time.
They may subjectively believe they snapped in the moment. But at some level, they were contemplating it outside of awareness. So this whole -- you know, even at a twinkling of an eye thing, the minute you pick up the gun, and you want to kill the other person, you thought about it Nancy, you`ve thought about it long and hard when you get to that point.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Helen in Arkansas, hi, Helen. What`s your question, dear?
HELEN, CALLER FROM ARKANSAS: I have a question and a comment. First up, I want to say I love your show. I love what you do.
GRACE: Thank you.
HELEN: I have a friend that we watch your show by phone, because she`s in another state.
GRACE: Thank you.
HELEN: My heart goes out to the grandmother. I`m a grandmother, and that`s -- it`s the best job in the world. I love my children, but my grandbaby is just awesome.
I want to know if there were drugs involved? Will she be charged with anything other than murder like child abuse, or anything like that?
GRACE: You know what, probably not, Helen in Arkansas, because under the law there is a theory of merger. If you`re -- for instance, if the murder encompasses some type of neglect or abuse, there`ll probably be just one charge.
Katherine in Delaware, what`s your question? I think I`ve got Katherine in Delaware. Hi, Katherine, do you have a question, dear?
KATHERINE, CALLER FROM DELAWARE: Yes. I`m here, Nancy. Hi, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good.
KATHERINE: OK. I just would like to say I have a few questions, but most were answered waiting to say my question. But I am a mom of six. I am only 29 years old, and it broke my heart to watch this story. Because it seems like it`s happening every single day, and my real question is, why is she only getting second-degree murder?
And another thing is she already admitted to it. There should be no court. I am just disgraced with our, you know, judicial system because she admitted to it. They`re going to leave her in jail, they`re going to go through a whole court process, they want to give her a free lawyer. They`re going to see her -- she doesn`t deserve any of that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Very quickly, an update in the search for baby Sky. Baby Sky goes missing out of mommy`s Acura parked on the side of the road when she leaves him behind, strapped in a car seat.
To Jeff Dubois, reporter with CNN affiliate KIRO, joining us at police department.
Jeff, what do we know?
JEFF DUBOIS, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE KIRO: Well, Nancy, it seems like police detectives are flat out of leads in this case, but we did finally talk to someone who knows Julie Biryukova. Her brother, in fact. KIRO TV here in Seattle, we knew exactly where he lives. We staked his place out.
Yesterday one of our reporters, David Queenland (ph), spotted him, tracked him down, and said, hey, how is your sister doing? How is Sky`s mother doing? He said that she`s very upset and that they`re hoping for the best in the situation.
But when asked specifically what they`re doing to help the investigation, he said, I don`t know what they`re -- what else we can do. We think all the information is out there. Police detectives here at Bellevue PD certainly have some other questions, though, for her. They talked to her once and Sunday night, a week and a half ago, when baby Sky went missing.
Haven`t really talked to her specifically since, have been talking to her through her attorney. But they want her to take a lie detector test and so far she has refused to do so, Nancy.
GRACE: With us is Jeff Dubois, KIRO. She`s so upset, she wants to help, now why doesn`t she go to talk to police and give a polygraph? And also, she`s so upset but she has time to log onto a dating Web site, Jeff Dubois?
DUBOIS: Well, yes, that dating Web site is called seekingarrangement.com. It`s a dating site for wealthy individuals who can set up a payment system, a stipend for companionship with other people. She said on her profile that she was willing to take $3 to $5,000 a month for companionship. Detectives here definitely want to talk to her, want to have her take that lie detector test.
GRACE: Well, companionship. That`s a nice way to put it, Jeff Dubois.
Jeff joining us at the police department, KIRO.
Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant 1st Class James Ochsner, 36, Waukegan, Illinois, killed in Afghanistan, on a fourth tour. Awarded two Bronze Stars, two Army Commendation Medals, Army Achievement Special Forces Tab. From a military family, loved military history, especially World War I and II.
Leaves behind grieving parents Sandy and Bob, a Vietnam vet, brother Rob also serving in the army, sister Jennifer. Widow and high school sweetheart Ann. Children, Mick and Megan.
James Ochsner, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us, and a special happy 18th to Jonah, place on his high school football team, loves hockey. Favorite team, the L.A. Kings.
Happy birthday, Jonah.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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