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Joy Behar Page
Interview With Barney Frank; Interview With Artie Lange; Interview With Kristen Johnston
Aired December 01, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the legendary outspoken Barney Frank, one of the first openly gay members of Congress announced his retirement. And he`s here to tell Joy about his decision and what he hopes to accomplish next.
Then former Howard Stern sidekick Artie Lange talks about turning his life around and getting back into radio after self-destructive addictions led to a suicide attempt and rehab.
Plus as the Kim Kardashian divorce drama makes its way back into the news, Daniel Craig and other celebrities begin the Kardashian backlash. That and more starting now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Barney Frank is leaving Congress and a lot of people are very disappointed. Newt Gingrich isn`t one of them.
I however, am very disappointed. Barney is one of the last straight- talkers in Congress and always says what`s on his mind. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you continue to support a Nazi policy as Obama has expressly supported the policy?
REP. BARNEY FRANK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Let me -- I will --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A real solution.
FRANK: When you ask me that question, I am going to refer to my ethnic heritage and answer your question with a question. On what planet do you spend most of your time? Ma`am, trying to have a conversation with you, would be like trying to argue with a dining room table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: And Congressman Barney Frank is with me now.
Did you hear, we just played a tape of you asking that woman if she was -- what planet she was on, Barney? Did you hear it?
FRANK: I heard it, and, you know, people should know, she was carrying a poster of the President with a Hitler mustache, she`s a member of that fringe group, and obviously, debating the health care bill was very legitimate. But as I said in my further answer to I`m very glad to have a demonstration of how vigorous the first amendment is, because she has every right to make these vile and despicable comments.
BEHAR: Right. Are you going to miss the stupid questions people ask you?
FRANK: No, I won`t. I guess -- I take it back. I`ll probably still get the stupid questions, but people won`t be filming me when I don`t answer them.
BEHAR: That`s true.
Ok. Let me show another example of a stupid question that you had to answer. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A straight military personnel will have to shower with homosexuals.
FRANK: Showering with homosexuals? What do you think happens in gyms all over America? What do you think happens in the House of Representatives? Of course people shower with homosexuals? What a silly issue. What do you think goes on when people shower with homosexuals. Do you think it`s the spray makes it catching?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, by -- you`re one of the first politicians to come out as gay. I think there was another guy named Studs or something?
FRANK: Terry Studs. Yes, I was the first one to volunteer it 25 years ago.
BEHAR: You know, I often think about what that must have been like 25 years ago for you. Can you tell me just a little bit about that?
FRANK: Well, it was pretty scary, Joy and frankly I did it not because I was on some crusade, but because living as a human being with all the needs we have, as human beings both physical and emotional, and trying to hide that, it`s hard enough that you`re an ordinary citizen. When you get in a position of prominence when people are watching you as they were as I`d a member of congress, it becomes very hard. It led me to do inappropriate things. It led me to seek satisfaction emotional and sexual in ways I shouldn`t have. And I finally realized I was living in a crazy way.
So, I didn`t come out as I said in some great crusade. I did it because it was making me not to. And I was afraid of it. I thought it would have negative consequences on my career. But I thought it would anyway.
I didn`t realize it would have some positive impact in terms of dispelling the prejudices. But what happened was, it was much less negative than I thought. I really found people responded better than I thought they would. And I will say, I think the fact that I was able to do that was pretty well received. I hope and I think that that encouraged some other people to do the same thing.
BEHAR: Well, you lasted quite a while, so I think you did do the right thing. I wonder, are there a lot of -- you don`t have to tell me their names, are there a lot of gays in the closet in Congress these days?
FRANK: Not a lot. There are some. It`s hard to do but I`ll tell you there is this difference and I wish it weren`t the case. But it`s a party difference. If you`re a Democrat and you`re gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender, then you`re pretty free to come out and expect that you will get the support and encouragement of other officials and the voters.
The closeted people are overwhelmingly Republicans. There are one or two closeted Democrats, and the reason for that is, there have been some gay Republicans who have come out, two in congress in particular, in both cases they ran into great opposition in their party.
But frankly, I think the position of the Republicans regarding being gay is this, all but a few of the morons understand that this is not a choice since none of us chooses our sexual orientation. I didn`t choose to be straight. I didn`t choose to be gay. That doesn`t mean I`m sorry about it. It`s just a fact of life.
What they now say is ok it`s not your fault that you`re gay. So if a Republican who`s holding office is gay, they won`t be upset about that as long as he seems ashamed of it.
BEHAR: Right.
FRANK: As long as he`s embarrassed by it, and tries to hide it, and lies about it, they`ll tolerate it. On the other hand on the democratic side, we`re free to be who we are to bring our partners places. I will be at the White House next Monday with my partner Jim. We`ll go to the White House Ball, we`ll have our picture taken with the President, with Michelle.
And so there is that difference. And there are still more closeted Republicans because they pay a price if they`re honest.
BEHAR: Right. Ok, let me ask you about some of the candidates that are running on the Republican ticket and just give me your usual unadulterated response. Newt Gingrich?
FRANK: Well, he`s a man I really find to have been a negative influence in American politics. He came to congress -- he`s really a man without any convictions. If you look at his career, he`s a man interested in power, there`s really no core of conviction. And he also decided that American politics was too friendly.
He said he didn`t like the fact that Tip O`Neill and Ronald Reagan considered themselves friends or that there was this kind of friendly disagreement. And he`s a very ambitious. He was very clever about it. I think more than anybody else, he introduced the strain of negativism and instability in American politics.
But I will say this. I bear him no ill will, and indeed I hope he`s the Republican nominee. I think he would be the best thing to happen to us since Barry Goldwater.
BEHAR: Were you surprised a little bit by his rather liberal position on immigration? That he took during the last debate. I was.
FRANK: No, because I think he is calculating that he is seen as enough of a conservative. His main opponent in the primary is Mitt Romney. The others are just falling by the wayside. I think he`s confident that -- he`s enough to the right of Mitt Romney -- although between the two of them, the way they flip positions, it`s like two whirling dervishes.
But Newt basically whirls to the right of Romney in public perception. I think he made this calculation, and with him, everything is calculated. There`s no sign of principle.
BEHAR: Yes.
FRANK: Running in November, a Republican needs to get some Hispanic vote. And so I think Gingrich did that to try to appeal to Hispanics, figuring ok I`m not going to lose any right wingers to Romney, and I`ll do that. So I think it was a pure political calculation and no calculation by him surprises me.
BEHAR: That`s true.
Now Herman Cain, you might know is assessing right now, whether he`s going to stay in the race. Do you think that he ever was a serious candidate for president in his own mind? Or was he like Sarah Palin who really was out to just make some money and be a TV star?
FRANK: I think he -- I don`t know him obviously, I`ve never met him. I think he did get -- he though he could do it. There`s an occupational hazard for people who run for office, it`s called delusions of grandeur. And in effect is you have all these people around you saying you`re wonderful, everyone loves you. We was kind of a phenomenon.
I think he may have thought that, now, what`s extraordinary is knowing that this set of people are out there, this woman -- how he thought he was going to avoid that, I don`t know. But I think he probably did entertain those thoughts.
And look, what`s fascinating is this. We`ve never had a situation where the supposed front-runner, Mitt Romney was so unpopular. Mitt just can`t seem to get above 20 for good reason. I think people don`t think he has a great deal of character. And I think each one of them just go you know what; it`s me versus Mitt. If it`s me versus Mitt, I can win.
BEHAR: You know right after President Obama`s elected, the Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell declared the following, quote -- he said the following thing, "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."
Is that what the GOP has been doing all along? Will they succeed? And is that why you`re leave.
FRANK: No, that`s not why I`m leaving. Frankly I`m leaving -- you know, I`m 71 years old. I`ll be almost 73 at the end of next term. Running again, I would be close to 75. I just want to do some other things, I`m tired.
The district I would have had to run in has been changed. It would have been -- I`m just not up for frankly full year of campaigning with a lot of new people. But that is the way they`ve been acting. It could be that Republicans -- their greatest fear is that the economy will recover, that the economy will improve. And that is exactly what Mitch McConnell has been doing. He kind of blurted it out.
They are clearly resisting things. There`s an overwhelming consensus among economists that we should do to deal with the current job problem and they are rooting for failure. There`s no question.
BEHAR: You know, who would you like to take your seat? Because we`re hearing a lot about this Joseph Kennedy who`s the third Robert Kennedy`s grandson.
FRANK: Yes. And his father, Joe --
BEHAR: He`s called Joseph Kennedy III, he`s Robert Kennedy`s grandson. That`s it.
FRANK: Right.
BEHAR: Yes.
FRANK: His father was a good friend. And in fact I talked to his father today who I served with. But at this point, Joy, in that situation, there are a lot of people in this district who are friends of mine, who I worked with.
BEHAR: Yes.
FRANK: A number of them who talk about it now. If it got to the point where there was a candidate with whom I disagreed very much on important issues, versus someone with whom I agreed, I would take that position of being with the person I agree with. But at this point there are a number of people with whom I work and with whom I could agree, so I wouldn`t take sides.
BEHAR: Ok, I want to tell you something, we`re really going to miss you in Congress.
FRANK: Thank you.
BEHAR: You know we really need people like you to tell them what for, and I`m sorry that you`re leaving, and I hope that your next move is not going on "Dancing with the Stars". That`s all I have to say.
FRANK: You`re -- I promise you that, and I`m not singing either.
BEHAR: Ok, very good. Thank you Congressman.
FRANK: Thank you, Joy.
BEHAR: Ok, we`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Artie Lange has been on TV and radio. He`s also been on heroine and suicide watch. But now, Howard Stern`s long time sidekick is back from the dark side and is hosting a new sports radio show with Nick Di Paolo.
Here to talk about his indestructible life is Artie Lange. Welcome to the show, Artie. I`ll tell you --
(CROSSTALK)
ARTIE LANGE, RADIO HOST: That is the -- that`s the best and worst introduction I`ve ever heard.
I mean you know, that`s not exactly what you hear when Sarah Jessica Parker comes on the show.
BEHAR: Au contraire, Artie that`s her exact intro.
LANGGE: You know listen, let me tell you -- let me tell you something, it`s not -- I wish I could argue with any of it.
BEHAR: I know, exactly.
LANGE: It sucks when it`s like, ah -- oh, wait it`s true.
BEHAR: When you have a lot --
(CROSSTALK)
LANGE: Well, good to be here, Joy.
BEHAR: -- you have a lot of fans here.
LANGE: I know, this is the nicest -- well, that`s the thing about Howard, like he`s --
BEHAR: Howard, who`s Howard?
LANGE: Howard Stern.
BEHAR: Oh Howard Stern.
LANGE: He -- the greatest thing he`s ever done is create a connection with fans. It`s like that`s the only thing you ever want to do when you do humor.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Of course.
LANGE: And being on that show for ten years is just -- the tickets I`ve gotten out of with cops is just unbelievable.
BEHAR: I can imagine.
LANGE: It`s just the best. Like, you know I`m coming back from like Banana`s in Poughkeepsie after a gig.
BEHAR: Sure.
LANGE: And you`re pulled over and the cop looks at my license and recognizes my name from the show and he`ll just go, "Tell Howard I said hi, take care." I literally could have been smoking crack. Really, thank you.
BEHAR: Now, what is this about a suicide attempt in 2010? What was that about?
LANGE: Well, it wasn`t -- it wasn`t really a suicide attempt, it was more just an attempt to try to get some rest. I -- honestly, like it was a little bit misconstrued, I`m -- I`m writing a book about it right now. It`s hard to explain. I just -- I -- I -- I was tired, and I wanted to get some rest, and I thought, if I lost enough blood I would get some rest.
BEHAR: That`s true, you would.
LANGE: And I never thought about what would happen like later.
BEHAR: Yes.
LANGE: Like, I`m not good at planning ahead.
BEHAR: But you said --
(CROSSTALK)
LANGE: Which is why I said yes to this interview, I think.
BEHAR: You stabbed yourself in the stomach. Why not go for the veins if you really wanted to kill yourself.
LANGE: Well, I didn`t go to medical school I don`t know what the veins are.
BEHAR: You`ve watched movies I`m assuming.
LANGE: Yes but there was never veins, I thought --
BEHAR: Slitting the old wrists. Do you remember --
LANGE: Oh like I`ve only seen the "Cannonball Run" movies so there`s nothing like that.
BEHAR: So it was not a cry for help then this suicide attempt?
LANGE: Look I get over, I mean, you know, my entire life has been a cry for help, mostly fashion wise but very --
BEHAR: What is it that you feel you need help with?
LANGE: Well, Joy, look at me. I mean -- I`m you know I -- I`m in show business, and I look like, you know, I`m here to fix the cable. I sound like a plumber. I look like Shrek and Roseanne Barr had a baby. And I`m just very unrefined and I pick the business where you`re always on camera. And I get insecure.
BEHAR: But you were on radio, it`s a perfect place.
LANGE: But it was also TV.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s true.
LANGE: Yes. And you know and it was in the mornings, so I always looked homeless on the show, you know.
BEHAR: Yes.
LANGE: They would cut to me, there would be a stripper on, and they`d cut to me I looked like Grimace from the McDonald`s commercial. Show us your breasts.
I guess I`m a little insecure about stuff, you know, so I --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes a little?
LANGE: I like forgetting things.
BEHAR: But I think that you`re a little insecure is right, you`re -- the heroin addiction, the suicide attempt, which is your attempt to sleep, of course.
LANGE: Right.
BEHAR: And -- and what else did you do to yourself?
LANGE: I --
BEHAR: Did you -- alcohol too?
LANGE: Oh, my God.
BEHAR: Yes.
LANGE: You didn`t think I skipped that?
BEHAR: Why would you skip that?
LANGE: What do you think I went right to heroin, kindergarten to Harvard?
BEHAR: Where did you get heroin, you`re like --
(CROSSTALK)
LANGE: Where did I get heroin, you want an address.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: -- where did you pick up this heroin?
LANGE: From a guy.
BEHAR: Where, how did happen, how did you start?
LANGE: I mean, listen I`ll give you a number after the show, Joy.
BEHAR: I don`t like drugs.
LANGE: You shouldn`t.
BEHAR: I don`t like drugs.
LANGE: It`s a bad thing.
BEHAR: I hate them but I mean.
LANGE: And so what`s horrible about it is you -- again, the loss of control and the forgetting, this actually happened to me. I`m walking down 6th Avenue a few weeks ago, and a guy comes up to me and says, hey remember, we hung out together a few years ago in Portland, Oregon. I go to -- I`ve never been to Portland, Oregon. And then, he takes out his iPhone, and he goes like this a couple of times.
BEHAR: Yes.
LANGE: And he shows me a picture of me and him literally in front of a sign that says "Welcome to Portland, Oregon". And -- he -- he looks fine and I look like Truman Capote after a night at Studio 54. And I go, well, you win that one. And I guess, what was it like there? I can`t wait to see Portland straight, you know.
BEHAR: That`s what happened. Now what happened with Howard Stern and you? Were you --
LANGE: Well, I was on drugs, and -- I was there a decade, and --
BEHAR: Like did he fire -- and then what happened, he fired you?
LANGE: No, it was like a mutual sort of thing, where like I was -- I was just -- I needed help, and I needed time to get help.
BEHAR: Yes.
LANGE: And it took a couple years, and they could not have been more supportive to me there. They said, you know, get as much help as you need, but after a while, it was like, you know, it`s time for both of us to sort of move on. It was very mutual. But they couldn`t have been more supportive.
In a lot of ways they saved my life is how I look at it. I`m very lucky to have come out of that, and have more opportunities in show business, you know?
BEHAR: Yes, now, have you another gig, which is nice. A radio gig.
LANGE: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: So you always can seem to find a job for yourself?
LANGE: Yes, I`m very resilient, very resilient. The only thing I`m working on -- the only thing I`m missing right now are abs.
BEHAR: Maybe Howard can really help you with that.
LANGE: I think I`m 30 sit ups away from it.
BEHAR: All right. We`re going to have more with Artie Lange after a quick break. Hold on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Artie Lange.
LANGE: Welcome back to intervention.
BEHAR: Artie, do you have a girlfriend?
LANGE: I do actually.
BEHAR: What is she like?
LANGE: Very sweet.
BEHAR: Really?
LANGE: Unbelievably sweet. She`s like a doll, you would never believe it. She`s younger. She`s a pre-med student.
BEHAR: A pre-med student?
LANGE: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: So, are you going to get married?
LANGE: No, I don`t know. I`m afraid of marriage, I don`t know. I`m afraid of any sort of commitment.
BEHAR: Really?
LANGE: Yes, any long term thing.
BEHAR: Really?
LANGE: Yes.
BEHAR: You were on Howard Stern for ten years; that was a commitment.
LANGE: I guess so.
BEHAR: You were in the psych ward for eight years; that`s a commitment?
LANGE: Eight years? No.
BEHAR: Eight months? How many was it?
LANGE: It was actually a month, well, if you add it up, yes about 3 and a half months, maybe.
BEHAR: Three and a half months; what was that like? Is it like --
LANGE: Oh, fantastic.
BEHAR: Is it like "One Flew Over the Cuckoo`s Nest"? Like that?
LANGE: It was like "One Flew Over the Cuckoo`s Nest", except without any of the charisma or the big Indian guy to play basketball. I had nobody like that. It was always the fat guy who was a schizophrenic who never got his medication on time, who would wander into my room at 3:00 a.m. and want to talk about the Knicks or something like that.
BEHAR: I understand you`re a Catholic but you`re an atheist? Or you don`t believe in God.
LANGE: No, no, no, no. I was brought up Roman Catholic. I just don`t -- you know, I want to believe in God, I do. I wish -- you get that feeling of -- I`m just afraid of not believing in God because of hell.
BEHAR: You`ll be punished if you don`t believe in God?
LANGE: I just have nightmares of what hell is, so I try to say I believe in God. Everyone has their own version of hell. To me, what if I die and I wake up and I`m in --
BEHAR: Portland.
LANGE: Well, no, I die and I wake up and I`m in a bathroom on an airplane, ok? And right next to me is like Newt Gingrich taking a leak.
BEHAR: That could be --
LANGE: Just me and him.
BEHAR: Yes.
LANGE: And Satan shows up and says, you guys can never leave, I`ll see you. That`s it. And then you`re there for eternity.
BEHAR: I feel your pain.
LANGE: And, you know --
BEHAR: Let`s talk about your radio show because I`ve only got a little time left. You are going to be doing this on -- what channel -- what is it a syndicated show?
LANGE: Well, right now it`s on in six markets on regular radio, but it`s also streamed live on nick&artie.com.
BEHAR: You`re with Nick Di Paolo.
LANGE: Nick Di Paolo, the great Nick Di Paolo.
BEHAR: And you`re talking about sports, are either one of you athletic in any way?
LANGE: I used to be. Nick`s very athletic actually.
BEHAR: He is?
LANGE: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: Is it going to be like a female-bashing show?
LANGE: Of course.
BEHAR: Gee, it`s lovely to have you.
LANGE: No, it`s three hours of us talking about the WNBA, Joy, that will get big ratings.
BEHAR: Are you going to be attacking women.
LANGE: No, we`re not going to attack women. Why would we attack women?
BEHAR: Well, Di Paolo is such a misogynist.
LANGE: No he`s not.
BEHAR: Oh, come on. He is.
LANGE: Listen, I`m not going to sit here and pretend I know what the word misogynist means. It sounded bad, so I`m going to say no.
BEHAR: It`s not good.
LANGE: No, it`s sports, it`s comedy, we can talk about anything. You know, like this show. You know.
BEHAR: Ok. I know you`re --
LANGE: Psych wards.
BEHAR: I know you`re on your way to an AA meeting, so I`m going to let you go.
LANGE: Do you know what the second A is in AA, by the way?
BEHAR: Anonymous.
LANGE: So what are you doing?
BEHAR: Like it`s a big shock that you go to those meetings.
Thank you Artie. To find out where you can hear the nationally syndicated Nick and Artie Show --
LANGE: We`re going to be on Sirius Satellite.
BEHAR: -- go to Nick&Artie.com.
We`ll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: This past week, Ginger White alleged that she and Herman Cain had a 13-year long affair. Cain denies the allegations and he says that he will reassess his presidential run after he talks to his wife. May I suggest that he talk to her through a bulletproof glass? Joining me to talk about this and other stories are Deborah Norville, the anchor of "Inside Edition," comedian Vic Henley and Nancy Giles, a contributor to CBS Morning.
Thank you all for joining me. OK, so he wants to see his wife face to face before he decides whether he`s going to run. Why? He spoke to her on the phone, why does he have to look at her face?
NANCY GILES, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, not only this, but is it like breaking news that he`s going to have a talk with his wife in the mud room or something? I don`t -- the ego that is going behind this whole thing is just unbelievable. Part of me is like, Herman, I don`t care.
But I will say this, that I think that all of the women, the extracurricular women appear to be Caucasian, means that the love story might be over with the Tea Party and Herman Cain. I don`t think they`re going to be down with that.
BEHAR: You think so?
GILES: Oh, heck no.
BEHAR: Let`s look at a picture of Ginger White. We have a picture of Ginger. This is the alleged mistress. Now, on "The View" the other day, we were debating whether she was black, African-American or Caucasian. I say she`s white, but it could have been the pearls that threw me off.
GILES: What are you saying, Joy, black people don`t wear pearls?
BEHAR: No, they do, but white women always wear pearls.
DEBORAH NORVILLE, INSIDE EDITION: Does it matter?
BEHAR: Hello, Deborah Norville.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: I am a white woman, yes, I am.
BEHAR: What do you think, is she black or white?
GILES: She appears to me to be white. But you know, my Negro Geiger counter is saying she`s indeed Caucasian.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It doesn`t, it just came up, no one cares.
GILES: Who thought she was black?
BEHAR: I think Whoopi and Sherry (ph) thought she was at least mixed.
VIC HENLEY, COMEDIAN: I just think she`s kind of heinous.
NORVILLE: That is so not fair.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: If this guy has been being her friend and counseling her, the hypocrisy of it on so many levels. But the idea that Herman Cain now is saying that she`s a troubled woman, and yet she wasn`t so troubled that for 13 years he was calling her at 4:00 in the morning? Help me understand, Mr. Cain.
GILES: Wait a minute, his lawyers are going over the phone records to authenticate whether those calls were actually made to him. Some news guy called the number, and it was like, this is Herman Cain.
BEHAR: It`s so wrong of you. I`ll tell you why, Herman Cain is no beauty, why do you make fun of her looks? You see, a man, you put him on the panel, and now you`re going to get pummeled.
(CROSSTALK)
HENLEY: -- not that attractive. Seriously, if you`re going to be a politician, you need to get some high-class hookers. You need to get some good-looking women.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She`s his mistress, but not a hooker.
HENLEY: I am just saying most politicians should just go ahead and go all out and get the hooker.
GILES: How do you excuse Bill Clinton, who had those two women -- many more women -- who -- they were so let`s just say interesting looking, that after they sold their stories to the tabloids, they got nose jobs and boob jobs.
NORVILLE: I went to China when Bill Clinton was just about to make his visit. And I asked, a very important news person in China said, what is the question you want to ask Bill Clinton? And the question they wanted answered was, why are the women so ugly. The entire country of China.
BEHAR: It`s just ridiculous.
NORVILLE: It is.
BEHAR: The entire country of China asked that question?
NORVILLE: According to the news anchor.
BEHAR: What, Mao Tse-tung was a beauty? Somebody had to carry that fat thing over the China wall during the war. During the revolution, they carried that fat--
(CROSSTALK)
GILES: There was some woman somewhere who was so turned on by Mao`s power, she was like oh Mao, Mao, whatever.
BEHAR: We`ve been on the air for 33 minutes, and I haven`t mentioned the Kardashians yet. OK, time`s up. It seems that people are turning on the Kardashians these days. Kim`s ex-husband is asking for an annulment, claiming he was defrauded. Kourtney announced he`s pregnant just as she happens to be launching a new website. Some people think it`s a little tacky. And actor Daniel Craig took the family to task in a British version of "GQ" magazine. I can`t even quote him because he used the f word. They were a bunch of f-ing idiots. So everyone is turning on the Kardashians. Why the backlash, Deborah?
NORVILLE: Oh, come on.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: My answer to that is, what took them so long? I`m sorry, but Kourtney Kardashian, this is the second kid, she still hasn`t got the ring on it yet, so we`re yet again supposed to celebrate what is a version of teen moms but with better transportation.
BEHAR: She`s not exactly a teen.
NORVILLE: No, she`s not, but she`s an unwed mother, and being celebrated for having children out of wedlock, just as the Kardashians are being celebrated for everything other than vows that matter. A work ethic that actually--
BEHAR: A sex tape.
NORVILLE: A sex tape.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: That is what opened the door to the celebrity in the first place.
GILES: The one thing they did do, you have to give them credit for it, they and J. Lo, is they really sort of helped the world embrace a woman with a large caboose. I`m really grateful for that, because I happen to also be similarly endowed. But it`s another one of these things where these announcements is what makes me laugh. Like Herman Cain announcing where he`s going to have his news conference with his wife. Announcing that she`s pregnant?
BEHAR: Who announces this?
GILES: I don`t know.
HENLEY: Skanks.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: A Kentucky (inaudible) congregation has come under fire for threatening to ban interracial couples from joining their church. Now, are we in 1955 here or what?
NORVILLE: They are. I`m sorry, electricity must not have come to this town yet. Do you know what the name of the town is?
HENLEY: Tomahawk.
NORVILLE: Tomahawk, Kentucky. I am sorry, that just kind of says a lot.
BEHAR: Where are they coming from?
(CROSSTALK)
GILES: Post racialism is in operation, didn`t you know that? Everything is cool.
HENLEY: There are only 40 members of the church, and 15 -- everybody left except 15 people, so nine voted to keep black people out and six voted to include black people.
BEHAR: Then why is this a story--
HENLEY: Except for funerals. Funerals are excluded.
(CROSSTALK)
GILES: And did you know, I think they`re banned from singing in the choir, and that`s just because that black guy will blow them away once he starts singing. They don`t want to hear -- they don`t want that.
(CROSSTALK)
HENLEY: I`m from Alabama, I`m qualified to discuss hate.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Where are you from, Nancy?
GILES: I`m from Queens, New York.
HENLEY: Right, so hillbilly one, hillbilly two.
NORVILLE: The hillbillies over here can see you (ph).
BEHAR: What is it about this particular church?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Is it typical?
NORVILLE: It`s a free will church.
GILES: What does that mean?
NORVILLE: That means --
HENLEY: Free to hate anybody you want.
BEHAR: And yet they still don`t pay taxes, these free will churches.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: They have the same protections as any other religious institution. But there are these, and they`re around the country, it is not just in the South, but there are these subsets of various religions that are very fundamentalist. We`ve seen it with the Mormon Church, the ones that still have 17 wives.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s not the Mormon Church.
NORVILLE: The Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints. But it was a weird offshoot of what had been the Mormon church, and this is, I presume, a weird offshoot of a Christian church, and look, I covered Klan rallies in my early days.
HENLEY: Stop bragging.
NORVILLE: I`m not bragging, I`m pointing out that these are --
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: It was very scary. But it wasn`t that long ago, and so these attitudes are still very much prevalent, happily in very small numbers, but they do exist.
GILES: What gets me, is that`s the same kind of fundamentalism that we have gotten in our minds about the Muslim religion, that everybody that`s Muslim is extreme, and where in the Bible or in the Torah does it say that two people of different colors can`t marry, or that women have to only show this part of their -- it`s not there.
BEHAR: Why do these places -- I`m on this now -- why are they tax exempt?
GILES: That`s right. They shouldn`t be.
BEHAR: If you are discriminating or your church has been doing sexual peccadilloes, like some of the religious institutions, I won`t mention names, why do you continue to get away with not paying taxes? It should be against the law.
NORVILLE: The sex stuff is against the law, and they do prosecute against those sorts of things when they get found out.
BEHAR: But when a church keeps moving a priest from church to church, they should be-- all of their rights -- tax exempt status should be taken away from them.
GILES: But what`s in the tax exemption rule book? I guess that`s what we have to look and see, because that is--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: We could save the economy if you tax these churches.
GILES: Is the Klan, do they get tax exemptions? I don`t know.
BEHAR: No.
(CROSSTALK)
GILES: This is bordering on that kind of racism and stupidity.
HENLEY: It`s Kentucky. I mean, you know, it`s right there on the border of West Virginia, Kentucky, what do you expect? You get off the plane, you hear the banjo music. It`s frightening. I`ve been there, I worked there, and it`s totally bizarre.
BEHAR: Hold on one second. Let me ask you something, did you see the movie "The Help?" Can you turn the music off, please?
GILES: Yes.
BEHAR: Did you see the movie "The Help?"
GILES: I did, yes.
BEHAR: The movie, a lot of people, they were on my show, the other show today, Viola, and they were saying that a lot of the black community is against that movie, because it makes the black women look like -- that they were more interested in the white children than they were in the black children. Did you see it?
GILES: No, no. I disagree with that totally.
BEHAR: That was one of the --
(CROSSTALK)
GILES: They were doing their jobs and they were doing their jobs the way that a lot of black women did their jobs, which was with their whole heart. Now, there were some people quibbling about maybe the movie had some historical inaccuracies, but I got to tell you, those actresses blew me away. I thought the story was really, really good. And I was glad they ended up, the characters ended up profiting from the book. I was watching going, that white girl better not keep all that money. And then it worked out.
NORVILLE: But I remember Viola Davis saying that she had grown up moving from the South up to Rhode Island, and that she read the script, and what struck her as just so inaccurate was the idea that all these housekeepers had phones. Because my grandmother had a party line, and that was an expensive thing to have.
BEHAR: I see.
NORVILLE: So the idea that a housekeeper would have had a telephone was so incorrect.
BEHAR: That`s what Viola said?
NORVILLE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK. Thank you, guys, very much, and we`ll be right back. Got to go.
NORVILLE: It was fun.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: My next guest has played everything from an alien to a Flintstone, to the sultry Ivona Humpalot. Check her out in her latest role on TVLand`s "The Exes." Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN JOHNSTON, ACTRESS: This is my place, I guess we`re at that awkward point in the evening. Good night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no pressure, but if you`re free tomorrow - -
JOHNSTON: I`d love to. Was that too eager? Ask me again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you --
JOHNSTON: What time? I gotta work on that. Well, good night. Oh, shoot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BEHAR: Standing at 6`0 tall, she`s a whole lot of woman. Please welcome my next guest, Kristen Johnston. Hello, my dear.
JOHNSTON: Hello, darling.
BEHAR: So I think he`s very cute, that little guy that you shared a kiss with.
JOHNSTON: Oh, gorgeous. He packs a lot into -- a little --
BEHAR: Well, he`s not little, is that you`re tall. He`s normal sized.
JOHNSTON: No, he`s tiny.
BEHAR: He was short? Really?
JOHNSTON: He played a jockey.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
JOHNSTON: Because on the show, it`s -- whatever, I`m not going to go into the whole thing, but Donald Faison (ph), who is from "Scrubs," who is also on it, who`s brilliant, he plays a sports agent.
BEHAR: I see.
JOHNSTON: So he`s trying to get him a date, and then he sees me, and he wants to date me. And then we have a lot of shrimp jokes.
BEHAR: You`re a divorce lawyer, and you share a hallway with three of your former male clients?
JOHNSTON: A hallway, yes. And apartments.
BEHAR: And apartments. You`re neighbors. I haven`t seen the show yet.
JOHNSTON: No, I know you haven`t, but a hallway would be odd.
BEHAR: You share the space.
JOHNSTON: We live across the hall. And I`m their landlord.
BEHAR: Right, so when you`re in the hallway, you share the hallway.
JOHNSTON: Sometimes we`re in the hallway together.
BEHAR: So are there any menage-a-trio going to be happening on the show, anything like that?
JOHNSTON: Oh, my God, crazily, yes.
BEHAR: Really?
JOHNSTON: Yes.
BEHAR: On TVLand?
JOHNSTON: No, they -- something happens. Can I tell about it? I don`t know. I`m not going to tell about it. Let`s talk about my storylines. I`m not in three ways, I get to kiss Amare Stoudemayer.
BEHAR: Whoever that is.
JOHNSTON: He`s a giant gorgeous Knicks player.
BEHAR: Oh, I see, a sports person.
JOHNSTON: Yeah, screw that.
BEHAR: So I would know who that is.
JOHNSTON: Well, I didn`t either. I`m like, all right, who, what?
BEHAR: Let me go back to something else, because I only have a little short time here. What happened to you on the plane with the Octomom? I`ve been meaning to ask you. What happened there?
JOHNSTON: You know when you literally go, hey, shhh?
BEHAR: Yeah?
JOHNSTON: That`s all.
BEHAR: Set the scene. She was on -- she was in business class with her eight children, right?
JOHNSTON: No, isn`t it more than eight?
BEHAR: Octo, eight.
JOHNSTON: No, but there is another -- don`t get lippy with me. There is another couple. She had the petrie dishes beforehand. I feel so bad, they`re humans, I`m sorry. I love them.
BEHAR: Fourteen all together. Were they all on the plane?
JOHNSTON: Yes.
BEHAR: 14 of them.
JOHNSTON: OK. So they`re on the plane, and it`s insane. It sounds like horror.
BEHAR: They`re running around?
JOHNSTON: No, they`re buckled in with nothing to do. They`ve got nothing to do. So I hear this. I`m like, OK, I`m flying out to shoot "The Exes." I just want a chill plane. Oh my God. I don`t have an issue with a baby crying. But 14 of them? It`s kind of weird.
BEHAR: What did you say?
JOHNSTON: So I go up to the stewardess, and I say, those kids back there --
And she goes, oh, they`re famous. I was like, I don`t care if they`re on the Disney Channel, this is driving me crazy. So I end up walking back. They don`t do anything, the stewardesses. I walk back, and I look back, and her daughter is trying to help the kids, and she`s sitting there with a magazine.
BEHAR: The Octomom?
JOHNSTON: Yes. So that`s when I went up to her--
BEHAR: Probably dropping another kid while--
JOHNSTON: Or getting impregnated. So I went up to her and said, I just walked up to her and said, get a handle on your kids.
BEHAR: And what did she do?
JOHNSTON: That`s it, she didn`t say anything to me.
BEHAR: So the news made it like it was a big --
JOHNSTON: No, I know. Nothing.
BEHAR: So it wasn`t. But you got off the plane?
JOHNSTON: I did, along with a lot of other people, because there was an electrical problem.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
JOHNSTON: It was a nothing story.
BEHAR: You didn`t try to electrocute the children?
JOHNSTON: No.
BEHAR: You just got off the plane?
JOHNSTON: I just got off, I didn`t storm, I didn`t walk fast, I just walked.
BEHAR: I hear you`re teaching acting at NYU?
JOHNSTON: I do, yes.
BEHAR: I might have to be looking into some acting jobs, you have a tip for me?
JOHNSTON: Why, what do you mean?
BEHAR: Well, my show is going to be gone pretty soon.
JOHNSTON: No, no, this is the best -- let me tell you something, I am honest to god truth, of any show that I`m on this week, and I`m doing a bunch of them, your show was the one show that everyone is freaking out about, like people love your show.
BEHAR: That`s nice.
JOHNSTON: I`m sorry it`s all four of them.
BEHAR: All four of them love your show.
JOHNSTON: I`m sorry, it`s -- you`re really wonderful.
BEHAR: Thank you, dear. Who are these people that love the show?
JOHNSTON: My mother.
BEHAR: My mother.
JOHNSTON: No, like -- just general people. A lot of snotty New Yorkers.
BEHAR: Snotty New Yorkers. Yes, sure.
JOHNSTON: Gays.
BEHAR: How about in the Midwest or the South, do they like the show there?
JOHNSTON: Well, I don`t know, how`s the ratings? I don`t know what you`re asking me. No, well, it is -- I`m from the Midwest.
BEHAR: Didn`t you tell me in the break the Midwest watches the show? And now you are sabotaging the entire thing by pretending that you don`t know what the hell I`m talking about?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: All righty then.
JOHNSTON: Can we take this chunk over? I`m sorry.
BEHAR: No, this chunk has been my kind of TV.
JOHNSTON: Is it?
BEHAR: Yes, so thank you so much--
JOHNSTON: Don`t cancel the show, though. I love it.
BEHAR: And you can see the lovely Kristen Johnston on "The Exes," Wednesday night on TVLand. We`ll be right back.
JOHNSTON: It`s really great.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The economy may be in the tank, but that doesn`t mean you have to go down the drain with it. Joining me is HLN Money export Clark Howard, whose new book "Clark Howard`s Living Large in Lean Times" has over 250 ways to buy and spend smarter. Welcome, Clark.
CLARK HOWARD, MONEY EXPERT: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: Let`s get right to it.
HOWARD: Sure.
BEHAR: You say it is better right now to buy a new car than a used car. Why do you say that?
HOWARD: It`s never happened before. Because of the financial crisis three years ago, four years ago, there`s not the supply of leased vehicles coming back into the market to be sold as three or four year old used cars. So right now the cost of used cars is at an all-time record high versus new. So right now in most cars, it makes sense to buy new instead of used. I have never said that in 24 years.
BEHAR: Really? What about leasing a car, better than buying?
HOWARD: Leasing is awful.
BEHAR: It is a tax deduction.
HOWARD: Well, for business maybe. But really the only people that should ever lease a car are people who feel charitable towards the people who are going to own it next. You pay all the depreciation on the car. The benefit flows to the next person, the owner, who buys it after you paid to buy it, essentially with the lease.
BEHAR: You can buy it after you lease it.
HOWARD: That`s true, and many times that is a great idea. At the end of the lease just buy the thing.
BEHAR: Because you know the car then.
HOWARD: Exactly. It is a used car without unknowns.
BEHAR: Let`s go to groceries. Let`s look at some of the ways people can save money when they are buying groceries these days.
HOWARD: It`s become so much easier because there are what are called hard discounters. They have been popular in Europe for 50 years and they have now invaded the United States. The biggest player in the business is Aldi. It is now in about 30 states around the country.
BEHAR: What is it?
HOWARD: A-l-d-i. They offer very small supermarkets with just generally one or two items in each category.
BEHAR: What if you don`t have an Aldi near you?
HOWARD: You have a problem. But there are competitors of Aldi that are opening up, but Aldi is just booming.
BEHAR: What if you just go to the A&P or something?
HOWARD: Much tougher with traditional supermarkets. So if you live in an area that only has traditional supermarkets, you got to --
BEHAR: Move.
HOWARD: That`s good advice, but couponing is great. Couponing has been so in lately, but still only a tiny percent of people really take advantage of couponing. With this key tip, when something that is a nonperishable is on sale, buy every last item you can stuff in any drawer, closet or pantry in your house.
BEHAR: Canned vegetables.
HOWARD: Anything that is nonperishable, massive quantities when they are on sale.
BEHAR: It is easy to say but when you don`t have money, it`s hard--
(CROSSTALK)
HOWARD: That`s the whole idea. If you substitute items, based on what`s on sale to stretch your budget, you can really cut your food costs by more than half. The biggest problem, though, is people who get tired of fixing food at home and eat out. You want a recipe to eat up your wallet, eat out.
BEHAR: That`s true. That`s true. OK. We have run out of time so quickly. You can get the book out there and you can see the Clark Howard Show Saturdays and Sundays on HLN. Get the book because everything is in here. Thank you for watching. Good night.
END
