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PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
Interview with Herman Cain's Attorney
Aired December 1, 2011 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hear what he said this bombshell new information about the woman who accuses the candidate of a 13-year affair. Attorney Lin Wood with the details you will not have heard anywhere else.
You seem to know a lot more than I do.
LIN WOOD, HERMAN CAIN'S ATTORNEY: I just told you --
MORGAN: But you don't -- you don't want to tell me the facts.
WOOD: I'm not -- no, sir. I'm not here to talk about the private matters of Mr. Cain.
MORGAN: I'll ask him what he thinks. All this will mean for the Cain train. And why he said the candidate's sex life is no one else's business.
Also, what is the Cain crisis tell us about the state of the Republican Party?
Plus, a worldwide exclusive from the sex, drugs and rock 'n roll legends, Motley Crue.
This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
Good evening. Breaking news tonight on Herman Cain's campaign. His attorney is here with new information on Ginger White, the Atlanta woman who accuses Cain of a 13-year affair. Lin Wood joins me now.
Mr. Wood, clearly a pivotal moment now for your client's campaign and everything resting really, I guess, on this woman, Ginger White's word against Herman Cain's word.
What makes you so sure that your client is telling the truth?
WOOD: Well, I have seen no evidence, Piers, no evidence to support the accusations of Miss White. I have seen her go out on what we now know is not just an interview where she could tell her story and be done. But now she's engaging in a media campaign, one interview after another after another. I'm told that she will be on one of your competing networks tonight. And she's offered no proof. No facts. She offered some phone records. They prove nothing other than she knew Mr. Cain. He has admitted that he was a friend of hers. She's offered two autographed books that were autographed with inscriptions that he could have signed to anybody in a book signing in a bookstore.
And so what you basically have it boiled down to is, do you believe Herman Cain or do you believe Miss White? Miss White, we know, has apparently and tragically been going through some severe financial problems in the recent weeks and months. We know that she reached out to Mr. Cain in the last several weeks asking him for his help and Herman Cain helped her. Just like he's helped a large number of other people.
MORGAN: OK. Let me jump in here.
WOOD: So I don't -- I don't see the proof there. It's not there.
MORGAN: OK. Let me jump in there. What we know from the phone records is that Ginger White texted Herman Cain 53 times between mid- October and mid-November, and Herman Cain texted her back 17 times.
MORGAN: On one occasion she texted him at 4:54 a.m. Herman Cain replied within two minutes at 4:56 a.m. And we also know that Herman Cain didn't tell his wife about any of these text messages or about any of his dealings this woman or that any of the payments.
Now, you know, a cynic would say, this is deeply suspicious behavior by a man who is in the middle as this is going on of a presidential campaign.
WOOD: No. During the time period that you referenced where she has apparently produced records, October 22nd through November 18th, Herman Cain was not only in the middle of a campaign from October 30th through November 18th and literally through today, he's been in the middle of a media firestorm, the victim and target of unproven accusations. Accusations which he denies and I believe him.
The idea that he would respond to, what, 53 messages, he didn't instigate a single message? He would respond to her at a time where she was reaching out to him in a text message asking him for help because of her financial problems. And it's also interesting that --
MORGAN: Do you know, Mr. Wood -- Mr. Wood, do you know what the -- do you know what Mr. Cain's messages said?
WOOD: I know a bit -- I know just a few of them. I've seen where she would write and say that she couldn't make her car payment, she couldn't pay her rent. Can you help me? Mr. Cain would go, how much do you need? And then she would list other things and he would say, I can't go -- you know, that amount.
These were -- these were short text messages, but what -- but what her records also show that no one wants to discuss is that there were redacted messages, text messages during this same time period, 2,600. We don't know who she was texting besides Mr. Cain. The text to Mr. Cain and his few responses made up of about 2 percent of her texting bill.
MORGAN: Yes, but --
WOOD: She may very well have been reaching out --
MORGAN: With respect, Mr. Wood.
WOOD: She may be very well casting a wide net trying to get money.
MORGAN: Mr. Wood, let me stop you. Let me stop you. Let me stop you. With respect, it doesn't really matter who else she's texting. The only thing that matters for the purposes of this Republican race is why Herman Cain felt the need to pay this woman money. And let's get to some factual stuff here.
MORGAN: How much money has Herman Cain paid Ginger White? How many times has he paid her? How has he paid her?
WOOD: I know that Herman Cain has -- as he has stated publicly, over the last several months on occasion has helped her with her rent.
But let me stop you for a moment, Piers. Because I'm not here to engage in a discussion of my client's friendships or areas that involve those friendships. I'm not going to do what the media really wants done and that's to relegate the political process into a Jerry Springer show.
What we have here is a man that for the last four weeks has been subject to almost on a weekly basis a new accusation, some anonymous, two individuals have gone out and identified themselves and spoken out, and I don't believe there has yet to be any credible proof that substantiates those charges.
What you want to do and what the media wants to do, and unfortunately, I'm afraid some of the American public wants to do, is to take this and say, all right, Mr. Cain, you've been accused and therefore, you are guilty. You are guilty unless you, Mr. Cain, can prove yourself innocent.
You just flip the system of justice on its head.
MORGAN: Well, as you -- I mean I don't think it's --
WOOD: And that's not the way we ought to be treating Mr. Cain or any other political candidate.
MORGAN: I don't think -- Mr. Wood, again, again. Again with respect. It's not as simple as that. That's not what I'm asking you. I'm only asking you as his attorney for some factual evidence which may well help your client. I mean, you still haven't answered me as to how much money, how he paid the money and how often he paid it and when the payments first started. Do you know the answers?
WOOD: Thank you. I do know the answers. And it's not my place to come on to your show and to tell you information that is privileged between my client and myself as his attorney.
I can tell you what Herman Cain has said publicly. And I believe Herman Cain and I can also tell you that I have not seen any evidence that would cause me to disbelieve Mr. Cain. But you want me to give you details and it's not my place to do them and I would suggest to you that it's not even Herman Cain's place to do that. Unless you want to, as I've said, relegate the political process into a Jerry Springer show.
Look, Piers, we're in the middle of a campaign at a time when our country has a lot of things that are broken. And what I've seen up close and personal trying to help Mr. Cain over the last three weeks is that our political process appears to be broken, too. Because we cannot allow our decisions on a candidate's character to be made based on unproven accusations. And we cannot allow those accusations to call on the --
MORGAN: You see, one of the problems -- one of the problems with this position -- but Mr. Wood, one of the problems with the position is clarity. It would be much easier because, for example, your client has made it clear he paid a lot of people. He's a very generous man. And I have no reason to disbelieve him.
But do you know how many other people he's paid money to? Do you know how he pays this money? What is the methodology?
It's an unusual thing for somebody to do, particularly when he's made it clear publicly today, and he didn't have to, that he didn't tell his wife he was making these payments to this woman or that he was texting this woman.
WOOD: He's an honest -- he's an honest person.
MORGAN: So Herman Cain is putting stuff in the public -- well, he's putting stuff in the public domain. So I'm asking you really for clarification about your client's public statements.
WOOD: What are you -- what are you going to prove by my answering questions about when or why he paid her, if it was in response to a need for rent. What does that prove? Does it prove that he had a 13-year physical relationship with her? No, it absolutely does not.
It only proves that he was a friend and that on occasion he tried to give her assistance as he has done other people.
So you want me to answer your questions that I don't believe that a candidate or any individual should be forced to answer simply because --
MORGAN: This is shockingly naive, Mr. Wood.
WOOD: We don't --
MORGAN: With respect --
WOOD: Let me stop you there -- let me tell you, Piers.
MORGAN: You are being -- you are being shockingly naive.
WOOD: Let me tell you. Let me tell you that I'm not --
MORGAN: The idea that a presidential -- the idea that a presidential candidate can be paying a woman who claims to have had a 13-year affair, he admits to paying her money, to calling her at 5:00 a.m., making repeated texts over a period when he's actually actively running for president. The idea none of this is remotely relevant is preposterous. You know it's a relevant thing.
WOOD: Thank you.
MORGAN: All I'm asking you --
WOOD: Thank you.
MORGAN: I'm not saying he's guilty of anything. I'm just trying to get some facts out of you. And the fact that you as his attorney know the answers but don't feel it's relevant to tell me the information is in itself a little strange.
WOOD: Thank you. I'm sorry if you find me naive or if you find my statements about Mr. Cain preposterous. What I find naive is the failure on the part of members of the media to be asking the tough questions of the accuser, someone who has obviously a troubled past, who has an incentive potentially financially to go out and to make these kinds of unfounded accusations.
Why don't you look at yourself, Piers, and the members of your media and recognize that you in fact and the media are participating in the deterioration of our political process.
One's character should not be decided in a presidential campaign or in their own private lives without a look at the entire body of their life. And look at Herman Cain. I said when I first spoke on his behalf at his press conference that he was a good and decent man. A successful businessman. He has ideas about how to fix the country. And now the media wants to take the focus off of those ideas and they want to go into the he said, she said.
MORGAN: OK. Mr. Wood, let me --
WOOD: And I think the naive person here is the -- is the media and its failure to focus on the right issues.
MORGAN: OK. Let's hold it there. Have a short break. We'll come back and --
MORGAN: -- explore your belief that it's the media's fault.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And what this says is, is that somebody is awfully afraid that I'm doing too well in this Republican nomination to continue to dig up these stories to try and put a cloud and a damper on my campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: That was of course Herman Cain advancing a conspiracy theory to CNN's Wolf Blitzer. And Herman Cain's attorney, Lin Wood, is back with me now exclusively.
Mr. Wood, I understand why you're so passionate in defending your --
WOOD: We're not going to call each other any names this time.
MORGAN: Well, (INAUDIBLE) it's a spirited debate. And I understand --
WOOD: I know. And it's OK. I'm just teasing you.
MORGAN: I mean look, the one thing -- the one thing -- let me clarify one thing that we have in common. I like Herman Cain.
WOOD: I do, too.
MORGAN: I enjoyed meeting him. I met him in Vegas after a debate there. We had a great interview. I found him personable, charming, an appealing candidate in many ways. I liked him.
That's not the issue. It's not about whether I like him or not. It's about whether he is a fit man to run for president of the United States, one of the biggest jobs in the world.
And character to me is important. It's not the be all and end all. But it is important. And when a candidate has been accused now by five different women of various forms of sexual misconduct, it is slightly stretching credulity to suggest that all of the women are simply fantasies, isn't it?
WOOD: We've had two of them that have spoken out publicly. Let me suggest to you that five lies do not make one truth. And when you talk about the importance of character, there's no question that that's a legitimate issue for the American public to decide in terms of its candidates.
But let's look at it from the perspective of that candidate's entire career and life. Don't judge people's character based on accusations made in the media that have not been proven with facts and in fact have been clearly denied by the candidate.
Again, and I go back, I'm sorry that I'm not satisfying you by giving you the details of the whens and the wheres and the hows. But that's not my place to do it and I don't think it's Herman Cain's place to do it. I think that Herman Cain --
MORGAN: Well, you -- you see, again, again, listen, Mr. Wood, here's where the problem is. Because the very moment when you were announcing that this was a private matter and therefore it wasn't in the public interest to discuss it.
WOOD: That's not what -- that's not what I said.
MORGAN: Herman Cain was giving an interview -- well -- OK, effectively, you said that this kind of allegation, because it didn't involve harassment, was a private matter, right?
WOOD: I said very clearly that as I understood the nature of this accusation, which I was unaware of at the time because I didn't learn about it as Mr. Cain didn't learn about it until just a few short hours before the broadcast was going to air on Monday.
I said very clearly that we're not talking apparently about allegations of harassment in the workplace or some type of what could be described as a sexual assault. It appears that this individual's accusations are going to be about alleged consensual conduct between adults and I, as a matter of principle, whether you or the media agree with it or not, I believe that our political candidates and our public officials, despite their positions, still maintain some zone of privacy.
I would submit this to you, Piers. Why don't you have CNN sponsor a debate next week, ask all the candidates to appear and tell them that you're going to be asking them about all the details of their life, about their friendships, about whether they've had extramarital affairs, about whether they've had sexual activity outside of marriage, whether they have ever said things or done things that they didn't tell their wife about.
Extend that invitation, Piers, and I bet you that no one shows up. Because those are areas that you don't have the right to go into and just because there is a false accusation made --
MORGAN: Well, let me -- let me -- hang on, hang on.
WOOD: That doesn't give you the right.
MORGAN: Let me ask you -- let me ask you something. If it turned out that Herman Cain had had a 13-year affair with this woman, and she had come on to him right at the moment he's at the top of the polls in this race, demanding money in a way that could be construed -- you said she was troubled and he felt that he had to help her and he'd known her 13 years, he doesn't dispute that. That there was a potential there for blackmail.
This is surely a matter that is -- particularly when Herman Cain today, I might add, has said publicly, I didn't tell my wife. He's raised that. We didn't know that fact.
WOOD: And -- and --
MORGAN: He's not treating this as a private matter, is he? He's talking about it publicly.
WOOD: And -- and because the media refuses to move to the issues and want to focus on the salacious, Herman Cain did say today that he had not told his wife. He also said that it was stupid on his part. It was a mistake.
You know, what you all like to focus on in your world in the media is you want to focus on Governor Perry forgetting about an agency or you want to focus on Mr. Cain struggling to make sure he's got the right issue before he blurts out an answer.
These people are human beings, they're not computers and they're not robots. And they're out there working long hours trying to learn information, to convey information, to raise money. It's a tough toll on these people individually. And they're not going to be perfect. But Herman Cain, on top of all the rigors of the campaign, has had to face for the last four-plus weeks, the toll that false accusations have made on him and his reputation and on his family. Not just his campaign and the campaign strategy. And if we --
MORGAN: Well, it may be Mr. Wood --
WOOD: If you want to go --
MORGAN: And I don't --
WOOD: If you wan to go out --
MORGAN: I don't want to -- I don't want to take any moral view about his person. It's nothing to do with what I personally think. It's purely about the credentials of a man to be president. If it turns out that he has lied about this and certainly it is murky, the woman says --
WOOD: I disagree with you.
MORGAN: -- we knew each other for 13 years and there was an affair, he says I knew her for 13 years, I've been paying her money, I've been calling her, I've been texting her, I didn't tell my wife.
WOOD: No, no, no.
MORGAN: But it's not an affair. Now this is not as simple as you're making it out to be. So the questionable woman just --
WOOD: I think it is simple.
MORGAN: -- making the whole thing up, is it?
WOOD: I don't know why she decided to go out and give this interview and make these accusations against Mr. Cain. I know from what I've learned that her situation was desperate and sadly desperate people sometimes do desperate things, and maybe she saw 15 minutes of fame and she believed or had been promised, who knows, that this might change her financial life and her future.
But what I do know and I want to go back to this. This idea that one person can come out and make an accusation that turns a friendship into an alleged sexual affair, let me tell you, the candidates in this race better be careful because if any one person comes out and says that about any other candidate, then you're going to be on the air saying that you want that candidate to answer every detail of his or her life as it might relate to this person, and probably others.
And that's a slippery slope that I don't believe this country wants to go down. I don't think it helps our political process. And it should be avoided.
MORGAN: Listen, Mr. Wood. Let me pick you up on that point about the payments. Herman Cain has said that he is a generous guy who has paid lots of people. So far we don't know of anybody else. It would be obviously helpful to your client --
WOOD: So why should he tell you?
MORGAN: Well, it would be helpful to your client, given there's no evidence he's paid anybody else if you just said yes, Herman Cain pays a lot of women to help them out when they're in times of need. Is that true? Are there any other women that he pays?
WOOD: That's like, did you beat your wife last night?
MORGAN: No, because he said it.
WOOD: For your question --
MORGAN: I'm not saying it.
WOOD: For your question --
MORGAN: I'm not saying he has.
WOOD: Why is he paying off --
MORGAN: He said --
WOOD: Paying a lot of women --
MORGAN: He is paying other people.
WOOD: He didn't say women and you just put in your question the idea that he had paid a number of women money.
MORGAN: Men, women, whoever.
WOOD: Herman Cain -- listen, listen, Piers.
MORGAN: It's obviously -- it would be even more helpful if he has paid men money. Then it would --
WOOD: He has.
MORGAN: It would seem to be --
WOOD: He hasn't paid anybody money.
MORGAN: -- a passing of payments to people in need of both sexes. If it turns out he's only paid this woman or a few women quietly without ever mentioning this to his wife, it looks suspicious. And then it looks like --
WOOD: So you just --
MORGAN: -- he might not be telling the truth. And then you have a candidate who may not be believable and credible as a candidate. That's why it's important.
WOOD: You just made up a question that doesn't contain one fact. Herman Cain has helped males, people in his church, relatives of his, friends, both male and female. But that's his private life and he's not obligated to come out and to tell you the details of that and violate the privacy of the people that he's helped.
And for you to insinuate that there's something out there that says oh, well, if he's been paying off or giving money to a number of women, there's not one fact to support it. And that's the problem with the approach that the media takes to these types of --
MORGAN: Yes, but do you have any fact --
WOOD: Of unfounded accusations.
MORGAN: Do you have any facts to disprove it? I mean you seem to know a lot more than I do.
WOOD: I just told you, I know --
MORGAN: But you don't --
WOOD: I know that Herman --
MORGAN: You don't want to tell me the facts.
WOOD: I'm not -- no, sir. I'm not here to talk about the private matters of Mr. Cain. I'm not going to tell you the people that have been in need that he has helped. That's not my place. You go back to the question -- MORGAN: If you're not here to talk about the private matters of Mr. Cain, why are you doing the interview? Because what all we're doing is talking about the scandal.
WOOD: I'll tell you -- it's a good question after sitting here for the last 15 minutes. But I came here to try to put what was going on in Herman Cain's life and his candidacy into perspective. To try to bring attention to the fact that I don't believe that he's been treated fairly. That I don't believe that many people, particularly in the media, have utilized their common sense in approaching these accusations.
And I've also come on to say that I believe that if you're going to attack and impugn someone's character, then do it with facts, not unfounded, unsupported accusations.
In your example, if hypothetically it were proven that any political candidate had in fact engaged in a long time extramarital affair, if that is a proven fact, then use that fact to judge that candidate's character. But don't judge that candidate's character simply because somebody has made an accusation for whatever their motive may be and they aren't in a position to prove it.
These accusers, the two that have come out, one tells a story that's not even worthy of belief in 14 years ago, and now all of a sudden another tells a story for a reason that she has herself refuted because she's not just out to tell her story in her own words, now she's out on a media campaign.
You ought to be asking the tough questions to them. And if they can provide you with proof, not just their statements, then it's fair to ask Mr. Cain to provide proof. But you're trying to get him to prove himself innocent --
MORGAN: OK. Hold -- hold it there.
WOOD: And you're presuming him guilty, and that's not the way it works.
MORGAN: I'm not presuming him guilty at all. Let's have another break, come back and let you continue to defend Herman Cain because it's fascinating, your defense, and I admire your passion, Mr. Wood. So let's come back and go at it again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAIN: Well, probably yes. But remember, the real assessment -- I'm going to say it one more time -- family, supporters, money and the strategy. So the strategy is one of the four things that we're reassessing to come to a decision about what we do going forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: That was Herman Cain today with some details of how he will reassess his campaign this weekend. And Herman Cain's attorney, Lin Wood, is back with me now exclusively. Herman Cain made it clear, Mr. Wood, that he's going to back home and talk to his wife. They haven't actually met in person since the allegations of this lengthy affair came to light.
What do you imagine will be going on this weekend? Because he said he is also going to reassess whether he will continue in the race.
WOOD: I think he's going to be reassessing his campaign, for the reasons and in the areas that he gave you. Herman Cain is a smart man. And he loves his family. And I know that these last four or five weeks with these accusations have taken a toll on him. And they've taken a toll on his family.
I suspect he's going to have a heart to heart talk with his wife and his other family members. And he's going to make sure that whatever decision he makes, the first and foremost consideration is in their best interest.
But I can tell you that I think we need to take a serious look at how this process has developed over the last several weeks, if not several campaigns. And we need to make a decision --
MORGAN: Let me ask you a question.
WOOD: -- whether or not we're going to require proof or whether we're just simply going to require accusation.
MORGAN: I think we're trying o get to the truth. That's the point of this, really. I mean, there is a good argument about whether a man's private sexual behavior should continue to have any relevance to a man who wants to run for presidency. That's a different issue.
WOOD: Or female.
MORGAN: The question now -- yes.
WOOD: Yeah works both ways. We do have a female candidate too.
MORGAN: I understand that. But you keep saying that there's no evidence at all. Of course, there is mounting evidence of a -- certainly a very close relationship between Herman Cain and Ginger White, so close that he has been repeatedly texting her.
WOOD: Now, you are really misrepresenting the text.
MORGAN: -- conversations --
WOOD: You're really misrepresenting the texts.
WOOD: Absolutely. There are 70 texts; 57 of those texts were sent by Ms. White to Mr. Cain over a four-week time period, to which he responded with 17 answers. And let's put that into perspective, too, Piers. You know, text messages aren't necessarily the way people communicate in-depth discussions.
They usually are one word or four word or five words. My son could probably sit at a University of Georgia football game and sit there and text one of his friends over the course of that game, and they would probably, between the two of them, come up with 50 texts.
So you keep saying he was continually texting her. There's not one fact to support that. It's another example of --
MORGAN: Did you know -- did you know that Herman Cain was making these payments to this woman?
WOOD: I know what Herman Cain has said publicly. I'm not at liberty because I don't know yet whether there will be litigation over this case or these accusers. I'm bound by the attorney-client privilege, Piers. And you know that. I can't tell you what I know from my discussions with Mr. Cain.
I can tell you that I know that Mr. Cain has acknowledged, from day one, that she was a friend for about the 13-year time period, that he did, on occasion, provide her with help because of her dire financial situation. He didn't deny that. He put that right out there out front.
And even she has acknowledged that -- in one of her media campaign interviews, she's acknowledged that there was never any effort by Herman Cain to provide her with money to not have her speak out. She instituted the text. It's a misrepresentation to say that he was continually texting her.
MORGAN: Are we talking about --
WOOD: It was a minuscule amount of contact by text message over years.
MORGAN: Let me ask you about the amounts of money. You won't be specific about how many times or how he paid or any of that kind of thing. In term of the amount of money we're talking here, that can be relevant. Are we talking hundreds of dollars? Are we talking thousands. tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands? How much money has Herman Cain paid this woman?
WOOD: I can tell you, again, what I know publicly. And Mr. Cain has said that he helped her on occasion with things such as her rent. So we're probably talking about a thousand or 2,000 dollars over the course of several months, if he's given her that amount of money.
You do the math. We're not talking substantial, significant sums of money. We're talking about money to help someone pay bills that's in financial need. You know, maybe looking back on it, maybe if he had thought, you know, this is going to come up and have someone start making accusations, and the help that he tried to give, maybe it was a bad idea for him to ever give that person help.
I guess that would mean that anybody that might potentially aspire to be president of the United States one day, or be in any political office should be very careful about who you decide to give help to. Herman Cain --
MORGAN: Presumably Mr. Wood --
WOOD: Herman Cain has lived the American dream and he's made not only --
WOOD: Based on false accusations and based on the media's desire to have this turn into a Jerry Springer show.
MORGAN: Fine. And it may well turn out that you're absolutely right, in which case the media will hold itself, I'm sure, up to the light and the bushel of examination itself. But let me --
WOOD: That would be news.
MORGAN: Well, let me just --
WOOD: Tell me when that happens. I've been doing this for a number of years. I haven't seen that happen yet.
MORGAN: A simple matter of record. Because to make these payments, presumably Herman Cain would have to have declared them to somebody or she will have had to declare them. You're talking thousands of dollars. There has to be some record because of any potential tax implications. Do you know whether he has declared them? Do you know whether she has?
Do you know whether there is any potential issue there in relation to the nature of these payments?
WOOD: I don't believe there's any potential issue there with respect to the payments on the part of Herman Cain. I have no idea what Ms. White's situation is. And again, perhaps these are the questions, since she decided to come out and voluntarily make these accusations that Mr. Cain has denied -- don't you think you ought to have her answer these questions and then, if she provide you with proof and facts, then you and I can have another discussion, and perhaps along with Mr. Cain.
And then it would be fair to start making him answer the similar type questions. Until that based on unproven accusations, there's no obligation on his part to do so.
MORGAN: I understand entirely your position. Let me ask you one other thing. Ginger White said that basically she had flown around the country many times in the 13 years to hook up with Mr. Cain, and they had enjoyed rendezvous in hotels and restaurants and so on. Clearly, that is a matter that can be examined.
I'm sure there are reporters finding that out now. Are you 100 percent certain that she never, ever stayed in a hotel room with Herman Cain or came to meet him in a city where they had dinner together, where there could be a public record?
WOOD: Are you ever -- have you ever said with respect to someone else, that you're 100 percent certain about something that person may or may not have done. I am as confident as I can be that Herman Cain is telling the truth. I have no reason to disbelieve him. I know that Herman Cain has made it clear that he's never purchased a plane ticket to fly Ms. White anywhere.
And I believe him. If Ms. White claims all of these lavish trips, where is one photo of her and Mr. Cain? She's not shown you one because there is not one. She claims to receive these lavish gifts. She hasn't shown anybody a gift because she says she doesn't have them.
She has no receipts. She has nothing in terms of factual hard evidence to support her accusations. It remains unproven. And it is not Herman Cain's place to have to prove his innocence, presuming that he's guilty. He should be given the fairness of being presumed innocent. And let Ms. White come up with fact and proof. And then I'll sit down with you and we'll talk about those questions that you so badly want me to answer tonight.
But it's not time to do it now.
WOOD: It's not fair to do it now.
MORGAN: I think that's a fair point, Mr. Wood. I would love to talk to you again about this. I'm sure it will rumble on. I'd love to talk to Mr. Cain. He's an engaging interview. There are questions that need to be asked on both sides. And we need answers to get this, I suspect, done and dusted one way or another. But I appreciate your candor tonight.
WOOD: Thank you very much.
MORGAN: When we come back, I want to know what this means for the Republican party and their efforts to retake the White House. I'll talk to a reporter who broke the harassment story involving Herman Cain originally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAIN: You make me America's CEO, we the people will take this country back. We can do this.
I'm Herman Cain. I'm running for president. I approve this message and I would never apologize for the greatness of the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: That's Herman Cain's latest campaign. It's been released in Iowa on Friday. We just spoke with his attorney. Here to react is Ken Vogel, the chief investigative correspondent from "Politico." He broke the story about the past sexual harassment allegations against Herman Cain. And Ken Blackwell, a senior fellow at the Family Research Council.
Let me start with you, Ken Vogel. You started this Cain Train crisis. When you heard his lawyer there getting very passionate, very heated, clearly trying to draw some kind of line here, being pretty vicious about the media treatment of his client, what did you make of it?
KEN VOGEL, "POLITICO": Well, there are a couple of things that really stood out to me, Piers. First is, for a camp that is so fixated on the lack of proof or facts being brought forward by these women who have accused him of various types of sexual impropriety, they seem very willing to cast aspersions and speculate about the motives of these women.
In this case, you heard Mr. Wood, you heard Herman Cain earlier today in his interview with the "new Hampshire Union Leader" editorial board say that he suspects that someone has offered her a lot of money.
Well, if you're really that focused on proof, you probably don't want o go throwing out allegations like that or suggesting that Rick Perry's campaign was behind this, which they deny, or suggesting that a "Politico" reporter's mother was one of the accusers, when in fact the person was of no relation to a reporter who is no longer at "Politico."
So that really stood out to me. Then the other thing is this blaming of the media. Clearly his supporters are dissipating and they're no longer buying this explanation. Conservatives were very happy to blame the media. It is a trope that . Works well in GOP politic.
But when you have the succession of folks coming forward, that no longer works.
MORGAN: Ken Blackwell, I mean, the evidence is sort of mounting up. But the lawyer has a point. None of it is absolutely concrete, is it? I mean, what do you think about the cumulative effect here of all of these charges against Herman Cain? Is he being given a fair ride? Or do you think maybe this is going a little bit far?
KEN BLACKWELL, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Look, one of the things that we know is that more than the laws and policies that politicians make, in terms of impacting our culture, it is how they conduct themselves. So public and private behavior of folks who are seeking to be the president of the United States of America is going to get very tough scrutiny, some of it fair, some of it unfair.
So, while I think Mr. Wood is a good advocate in the courtroom, I'm not sure he understands how the game is played in the public arena, particularly when someone is aspiring to be the president of the United States. That's why I think that Herman needs to focus on the welfare of his family.
I don't care about the impact on the Republican party. We'll take care of ourselves. I don't care about the -- you know, the desires of the media. The media will be big men and women. They'll take care of themselves. He needs to focus on Gloria and his family and come to some decision as to how they're going to fight this without dragging the family through the mud.
This is taking its toll. And I think he has as much to say about whether he will take them through this as anybody else.
MORGAN: OK. Let's have a short break, come back and talk about what happens to the Republican race if Herman Cain, as many are predicting now, pulls out of the race.
MORGAN: Back now with Ken Vogel, a reporter for "Politico," and Ken Blackwell, a senior fellow at the Family Research Council. Ken Vogel, do you think we've now seen all the scandals involving Herman Cain? It seems like, at one stage, there was one new one on every other day. Do you feel now like this is the tipping point?
VOGEL: Well, certainly he has suggested that it is. We hadn't heard this level of sort of self-reflection or even self-doubt about reassessing whether he can go on. So I think he, with his family, may have reached sort of a precipice.
But nonetheless, he is still predicting that there is a possibility that if sticks through this another 33 days to Iowa and perhaps beyond, there's a possibility that more of this could come out.
So I think that the one consistent has been that he has had had the support of his wife and his family. And he has continued to say that as long as he has that, he's willing to go on. Now you start to hear a little bit of doubt. So I think it's really anyone's guess as to what he is going to do at this point.
MORGAN: Ken Blackwell, Newt Gingrich is storming away now in many of the polls, certainly in places like Florida. Mitt Romney must be getting worried. He looked like the sure fire bet for the nomination. Not a sure fire anymore.
What do you think is going to happen over the next few weeks involving this increasingly unpredictable race?
BLACKWELL: I wish I knew, Piers. Look, we're in rare air right now and in a different arena. With the proportional representation that takes place after early March, there are candidates that if they can live off the land in January and February, they can keep this interesting going into the late Spring, early Summer.
I think Iowa is up for grabs now. It's more than a two-person race. You have folks like Michele Bachmann and others who will, in fact, draw the line in the sand and run very aggressive campaigns in Iowa. So it's going to be very, very interesting.
And the numbers are starting to shift in New Hampshire, where Newt Gingrich now is looking stronger and stronger every day. So Governor Romney has every reason to be worried. He cannot fight this from a defensive crouch. And that's what he seems to be doing right at this moment.
MORGAN: OK. Ken Blackwell, Ken Vogel, it's a fascinating time certainly. And it's all heating up now towards January. Thank you both very much, indeed.
VOGEL: Thank you.
MORGAN: When we come back, a preview of my interview tomorrow with the bad boys of rock and roll, Motley Crue. And a major exclusive announcement about their exciting new move.
MORGAN: Tomorrow night, sex, drugs, and rock and roll. I sit down with the baddest bad boys of them all, probably the baddest in rock history, Motley Crue. And tonight, I'm going to have a special announcement from the band. They're doing a residency in Sin City itself. Can you imagine, Motley Crue goes to Las Vegas at the Hard Rock Hotel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the first Hard Rock band to ever have a residency. There's been bands like Santana and Elton john and these kinds of acts. But for us, because -- you know, Motley Crue is built about -- we're all about theater and about over the top stage show.
MORGAN: So Vegas?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a perfect fit for us. We're really, really excited.
MORGAN: When is this? When is this happening?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is starting on February 3rd.
MORGAN: For three weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For three weeks.
MORGAN: How do you get a ticket?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We go to -- we? You, everybody --
MORGAN: I'm assuming you're going to comp me some of those.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll comp you. You go to Motley.com and they are going to go on sale now. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And you don't want to miss tomorrow. It's one of the most outrageous and hilarious interviews I've probably ever done in my life. That's all for us tonight. "AC 360" starts now.