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Nancy Grace
Father Throws Own 2-Year-Old off Bridge in Carseat
Aired December 02, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, New Jersey. Boys walking home from the school bus get the shock of a lifetime when they spot a tiny hand and tiny foot protruding from a shallow creek. It`s a baby girl still strapped in a carseat, half submerged in cold creek water, the baby thrown from a busy overpass.
Bombshell tonight. A nationwide manhunt after investigators discover Tierra`s backpack and belongings dumped nearby. Tonight, who threw a beautiful brown-eyed baby to her death? We want justice!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The unthinkable. A father is accused of throwing his 2-year-old daughter off a bridge into a creek.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 2-year-old was found in the stream at Shark River Park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Floating face down in a stream.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still strapped into her carseat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was secured in a carseat. She was dead upon police arrival.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby Tierra was last seen with her father, 27- year-old Arthur Morgan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, he`s just -- he`s -- he`s crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mom gave her to her dad voluntarily for visitation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he did not return her to her mother, the police were notified.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a group of teenagers who made the discovery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The details gruesome.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were apparently walking by and saw little Tierra`s hand sticking out of the water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were hoping and praying it was just some sort of sick prank.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dad, Arthur Eugene Morgan III, flees. Police issue a nationwide manhunt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, we all know you can get a great rollback, a deal at Wal-Mart. But a baby for just $25? We go live. A mom and dad try to sell their 8-month-old baby girl at Wal-Mart for $25. They got a deal all right, a free trip to hell!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was outside the Westridge Wal-Mart that police say 38-year-old Patrick Foussik (ph) and his 20-year-old girlfriend, Samantha Tommasini (ph), tried to sell their baby girl. The asking price, 25 bucks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Asked the ladies, asked them, Do you want to buy the baby? You know, and Ashley (ph) says, You want to buy the baby for $25?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this Wal-Mart parking lot what she calls a misunderstanding of a sick joke.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know how it turned into how, you know, we`re such dope fiends that we`re going to try to sell -- sell the love of our life for $25, you know? I mean, this -- that`s just -- it`s just the price alone is just, like -- you know what I`m saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was insistent. He kept telling them, No, I want to sell you the baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The women said no, got a description of the parents` vehicle and called police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Later that night, the baby, nicknamed Peanut, seen these photos, was taken away by police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Boys walking home from the school bus get the shock of a lifetime. They spot a tiny hand and tiny foot protruding from a shallow creek, a baby girl still strapped in her carseat, half-submerged in cold creek water, thrown from a busy overpass. Tonight, we want justice!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a very, very serious case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You created this child with me and you could just take her. It wasn`t your choice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say Morgan killed his 2-year-old daughter, Tierra, by hurling her from a New Jersey bridge into a shallow stream.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just a sad thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a group of teenagers who made the discovery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This little girl was just a darling, so innocent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They saw little Tierra`s hand sticking out of the water.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Face down still in her carseat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just can`t believe that that guy would do something like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-seven-year-old Arthur Morgan. He is the main suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) just need to be caught.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A neighbor says Morgan is unstable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police issue a nationwide manhunt and consider Morgan armed and dangerous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New Jersey needs to bring the death penalty back because no man should be able to live for the rest of his life knowing that they did that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. School children get the shock of a lifetime. As they`re walking home from the school bus, they look down from an overpass, a little bridge, and they see a tiny foot and hand protruding from cold creek water, this baby girl, 2-year-old Tierra, thrown if an overpass to her death. She drowned in that cold creek water still strapped in a carseat.
Somebody`s going to jail! But that`s just going to be a pit stop on their way straight to hell!
Right now, I want to go out to Charles Webster, "Asbury Park Press." Charles, tell me how the baby, baby Tierra, was discovered.
CHARLES WEBSTER, "ASBURY PARK PRESS" (via telephone): A couple of teenagers had gotten off a school bus and were walking home when this one 15-year-old just happens to look over the edge of this overpass, looks down to the stream, and there`s this baby face down in the water. Well, he doesn`t even know it`s a baby at that point. He just sees something and wants to know what it is, and it`s a baby.
GRACE: Joe Gomez joining us, KTRH. Joe, what more can you tell me?
JOE GOMEZ, KTRH (via telephone): You know, this is a horrifying story, Nancy. The father of this beautiful 2-year-old girl said he was going to take her on a "Daddy date." Well, little did she know, Nancy, it was going to be a date with death!
After he picked her up, just hours after, he threw her over this New Jersey bridge, allegedly, while she was strapped to a carseat. She was totally submerged in the water. Police later found this beautiful 2-year- old baby girl dead.
Nancy, he had apparently been in a bitter custody battle with Tierra`s mother, and I guess perhaps he just suddenly snapped. There`s really no excuse for this kind of behavior.
GRACE: To Bonnie Druker, our producer on the story. Bonnie, did I just hear Gomez say a Daddy/daughter date? What happened?
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, yes. There was a Daddy/daughter date. Now, Mom and Dad got together at the store for the handoff. Mom even provided some food, paid for gas. And basically, Dad was supposed to have the girl back...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Druker! Wait. Wait! Mommy had to bring the snacks? Mommy had to buy Daddy gas for the car?
DRUKER: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: And all this just so Daddy would spend time with the little girl? That was -- what was the Daddy/daughter date? Tell me again?
DRUKER: Daddy/daughter date was to go to the movie "Happy Feet 2," Nancy.
GRACE: OK. What happened then?
DRUKER: Daddy told Mom that he would have little Tierra back at 6:00 o`clock that night. He never showed up. The mother, we hear from reports, is obviously freaking out. At 10:00 o`clock, she calls the police, Nancy. And that`s when the manhunt began.
GRACE: I want to hear about the timeline, Bonnie Druker, because I know that the mother was very nervous about letting the father take the little girl. She had been through pure hell with this man.
And she did everything right. She went to the court. She got TROs. She had to go to a battered women`s center. Then somehow, he found out where the batter women`s center was. She went to another shelter.
They were trying to get her on her feet. She was going to nursing school. He tried to sabotage her going to nursing school. She managed to get a second-hand car so she could get to school, so she could reestablish her life. He sabotaged the car so she couldn`t get to classes.
Still, she was doing the court-ordered visitation and letting the Daddy see her only child -- her only child! Give me the timeline, Bonnie Druker.
DRUKER: Well, Nancy, clearly, this mom still wanted to make Daddy happy. We believe that Daddy picked up the girl somewhere between 12:00 and 2:00 o`clock, said that he was going to see "Happy Feet 2," was going to bring the girl back at 6:00 o`clock. Never showed up.
We hear there were text messages back and forth. And then at 10:00 o`clock, mom got so upset, so freaked out, she called the cops.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Renee Rockwell, Hugo Rodriguez. Hugo, Miami. Renee, Atlanta. All right, Renee. Where is she? Let me see her. Go ahead. Hit me. What`s your best defense for Daddy?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, obviously, there`s going to be a mental health defense raised. Might be difficult. Not all cases go to trial, Nancy. If this was my client, it would be damage control. He just needs to be glad that this is not a death penalty state. I don`t see this case going to trial, Nancy.
GRACE: Hugo Rodriguez, I see it going to trial for life plus 20. If I were prosecuting this case, I wouldn`t settle with just life without parole. Oh, no. I`d want to make sure he stayed in after his parole date. What`s his best defense?
Let me tell you, there`s not going to be a mental defense because after he throws the baby still strapped in her carseat, he goes and hides all her belongings in a dumpster at a nearby apartment complex so there won`t be any trail in his car. And he sends literally 59 texts to Mommy saying, Everything`s OK. The baby`s just resting -- all these lies. It takes intent to tell a lie, Rodriguez. Go ahead. Tell me I`m wrong. I`m ready. Hit me.
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, no. You`re dealing with a very sick individual. No normal person would have done what this father did. Obviously, he`s insane, he`s sick, he`s very disturbed. There has to be a mental health issue presented. I don`t know that there`ll be any offer...
GRACE: OK, you know what? Let me see these two lawyers. Put them up. Put them up! OK, here`s my question to the two of you. And I`ll take you first, Hugo. What is it? When your client is caught red-handed and there`s nowhere to go, you bring it out of the closet, out of the mothballs. Here comes the insanity defense.
RODRIGUEZ: No, no, Nancy...
GRACE: Second verse same at the verse. Can you give me something...
RODRIGUEZ: Here`s the...
GRACE: ... fresh, Hugo...
RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
GRACE: ... something that might entertain my imagination other than insanity?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
GRACE: What?
RODRIGUEZ: Would any normal person do what he did? That`s my defense.
GRACE: Normal -- abnormal is not a defense because...
RODRIGUEZ: Any person...
GRACE: ... abnormal is a killer.
RODRIGUEZ: Well, the point is...
GRACE: I don`t care about normal.
RODRIGUEZ: ... no normal person...
GRACE: That means nothing to me.
RODRIGUEZ: ... in a rational mind would do what he did. No one.
GRACE: Rational, irrational. You know, stop! Sheryl McCollum, you`ve been in the trenches with me. You know that irrational, abnormal is not a defense. OK, Sheryl McCollum...
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: It is not a defense.
GRACE: ... cold case expert, crime analyst, go ahead. Put the scene back together for me. Explain to Hugo Rodriguez and Renee Rockwell why this was well thought out, based on the crime scene alone, Sheryl.
MCCOLLUM: It was well thought out because he went to a pawn shop before he ever picked the child up and got some cash money...
GRACE: Pawn shop.
MCCOLLUM: ... so that he could flee. And he only got as far as Virginia because that`s how much money he had to take the bus. And not only does he get rid of the child and kill her, he gets rid of all of her belongings in a place where he doesn`t think they`re going to be found. And then takes hisself as far away as he can. And while he`s fleeing, the entire time is telling mama through text messages, Everything is fine. In other words, Don`t start looking for me yet until you completely freak out and call the police.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president, founder, Klaas Kids Foundation. Weigh in, Marc Klaas. Look at this little girl...
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, sometimes I think...
GRACE: ... 2 years old.
KLAAS: ... defense attorney`s living in an alternate universe where you can justify and excuse anything. Sometimes there is no justification for evil. It just exists in the world. And when we find it, we have to eradicate it any way that we possibly can. If this guy ever sees another day of freedom in his life, it`s going to be too soon.
GRACE: A nationwide manhunt for Daddy after schoolboys find this little girl strapped in a carseat at a creek bottom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You created this child with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victim of this murder is Mr. Morgan`s 2-year- old daughter, Tierra Morgan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you could just take her. It wasn`t your choice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charging Arthur E. Morgan III with murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The autopsy results reveal that Tierra died of homicidal violence, including drowning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say Morgan killed his 2-year-old daughter, Tierra.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Father is accused of throwing his 2-year-old daughter off a bridge into a creek.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hurling her from a New Jersey bridge into a shallow stream.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With him, it was, like, if he didn`t have his family, nobody could have his family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stumbled upon the body of 2-year-old Tierra Morgan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just can`t believe that that guy would do something like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) before we -- we were told by the police that it was an actual child, we were hoping and praying that it really wasn`t and it was just some sort of sick prank or something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. This baby girl found by schoolboys as they got off the bus, half submerged, face down in her carseat, still strapped in, at a creek bottom. Oh, yes, Daddy, you`re going to hell, but you`re stopping off at the penitentiary first! Daddy leading cops on a nationwide manhunt.
We are taking your calls. But very quickly, Bonnie Druker, give it to me in a nutshell. Tell me what happened. And you didn`t tell me about the 59 texts he sends Mommy! I had to bring that out myself. So let`s go through it in a nutshell, but don`t leave out critical evidence, Bonnie Druker. Don`t give the defense attorney something to chew on, OK? Go ahead.
DRUKER: OK. A Daddy date -- it is supposed to happen. Mom meets dad at a store. She`s supposed to hand off the child. She hands off the child. Dad says, Hey, we`re going to see a movie called "Happy Feet 2." At 6:00 o`clock, your daughter will be home. There were 59 text messages of Mom freaking out, Dad saying, Your daughter is OK. She is at rest. At 10:00 o`clock, Mom calls the police, Nancy.
GRACE: Take a look at this little girl, baby Tierra, dead, strapped in a carseat. Daddy leading cops on a nationwide search after he pawns jewelry, probably Mommy`s, to get enough money to cross the country and escape justice. Listen, Daddy, you can run, but you can`t hide!
We are taking your calls. Patricia in New York. Hi, Patricia. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. My question is, was there a current order of protection for the mom against this monster?
GRACE: Oh, yes, there was. Let me tell you what all this lady had been through. You know what? I`m going to let you tell it, Druker. Go ahead. Mommy did everything right.
DRUKER: Well, Nancy, in one year, there were four different cases open, and nothing stuck. DCF couldn`t find any signs of abuse. Again, that is four different cases in one year. There was a restraining order. But again...
GRACE: Wait a minute!
DRUKER: ... that never stuck.
GRACE: Stop. Bonnie, isn`t this Monmouth County DFACS, department of family and children`s services? Is that who was supposed to be investigating this case?
DRUKER: Yes, exactly. That`s right.
GRACE: OK. What do you have to do in Monmouth County, New Jersey, to go to jail? This guy had cocaine charges. He had domestic abuse charges. Four calls to DFACS in one year, and he`s still walking free? Monmouth County, you all need to be fired and you all need to go to jail! DFACS Monmouth County, I am calling you out!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was reportedly headed out with her father to see the movie "Happy Feet 2," but her mother would never see her again. Instead, police say 27-year-old Arthur Morgan III murdered his 2-year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New Jersey needs to bring the death penalty back because no man should be able to live for the rest of his life knowing that they did that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The unthinkable, a father is accused of throwing his 2-year-old daughter off a bridge into a creek.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, he`s just -- he`s crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stumbled upon the body of 2-year-old Tierra Morgan floating face down in a stream.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her body found strapped into a carseat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As he is now charged with murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A nationwide manhunt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) consider Morgan armed and dangerous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just can`t believe that that guy would do something like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Schoolboys get a shock of a lifetime walking home from the school bus. They look over an overpass -- let`s see a picture of the overpass, Liz. They look down, see a baby`s carseat face down, protruding from the water a tiny hand and a tiny foot.
We are taking your calls. Charles Webster, "Asbury Park Press," what`s so disturbing, in addition to the death of 2-year-old Tierra, this is the mom`s only child. When she heard about this, she went into hyperventilation and had to go in the hospital.
Charles Webster, she did everything right. She took out TROs. She went to the courts. She went to battered women`s centers. She was getting her life together, a nursing student that held down a job. He did everything he could to sabotage her and this baby.
Why wasn`t he in jail? And what in the hey is wrong with Monmouth DFACS?
WEBSTER: Well, you know, it`s an interesting thing when you look at this, that three of the four calls to what we call DFS (ph) here in New Jersey were actually initiated by him, trying to manipulate the system. He`s trying to...
GRACE: I know that. I know that, Charles Webster! But my point is, DFACS called in on the case four times in one year that I know of. She went to the court. She did everything.
WEBSTER: They say he sweet talked them.
GRACE: Oh, really? Really? Because -- to Dr. Carol Lieberman, forensic psychiatrist. Dr. Carol, isn`t it true that part of the battered women syndrome is that after a severe beating, you have the honeymoon phase, where typically, the man sweet talks the woman back in -- I`m sorry, it`ll never happen, I just, quote, "love you," I`m jealous of you, whatever, fill in the blank. And then it happens all over the again. DFACS is telling me he sweet talked them? Are they out of their gourd?
DR. CAROL LIEBERMAN, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Hi, Nancy. Yes, it is really sad. In a case like this, you know, the woman -- yes, she did a lot of things to try to get help, but deep down she obviously had low-esteem and she was ambivalent about losing him. She told him where the women`s shelter was that she was in on at least one occasion. She gave him the child to take away. I mean, it`s really sad. They both...
GRACE: She was under order to let him see the child. He had to get supervision. Long story short, DFACS and the courts failed Mommy. Her only child is dead!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Murdering this 2-year-old daughter and it`s a very, very serious case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Morgan is unstable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the stories I was told from them, you know, he`s just -- he`s crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Details, gruesome.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hurling her from a New Jersey bridge in to a shallow stream.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls.
Joining me right now, special guest, Steve Jurman. He`s a supervisory deputy U.S. marshal spokesperson for the agency that is responsible for the manhunt for daddy. Daddy, pawning jewelry to take trains, all the way across the country. All the way from New Jersey.
Let`s see the map, Liz. From New Jersey to California. Steve Jurman, thank you for being with us.
STEVE JURMAN, SUPERVISORY DEPUTY U.S. MARSHAL SPOKESPERSON (via telephone): Glad to be here, Nancy.
GRACE: Steve, please describe what the U.S. marshals had to go through in order to complete their search for daddy, a nationwide manhunt.
JURMAN: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. This case was first presented to the U.S. marshal service fugitive task force in New Jersey by the Monmouth County prosecutor`s office and sheriff`s department. They often come to us for fugitive investigations and then this case they did.
We immediately started the investigation and literally tracked him across the country from New Jersey. We had leads in Oklahoma, Texas and then ultimately here in San Diego, as well.
GRACE: You know what, Steve Jurman; do you know anything about what if anything he said, what he was doing, how he was apprehended? Tell me. How did you -- I understand you surveiled him for hours on end and only moved in when you thought he was leaving the home where he was hiding out.
JURMAN: Yes, that`s right. We -- we received information that he could potentially be at a house that had this -- here in San Diego and we set up surveillance about 11:00 in the morning and that went on until about 3:30 when finally he stepped out on to the back patio with another occupant of the house and had a cigarette.
We were able to make identification from a long distance away. At that point, we converged about 40 deputy U.S. marshals and fugitive task force officers from the San Diego Fugitive Task Force on that house. Within 20 minutes from getting that positive I.D., getting the operational plan together, and then surrounding the house and -- when we did make the approach on the house, he -- there was like a scamper back and forth between the front of the house and the back of the house. He was completely surrounded. We took him in to custody on that back porch. And pulled him down to the ground and handcuffed him. At that time, he began shaking like a scared coward.
GRACE: You know what, Steve Jurman, you said it all. A coward. You are looking at video. God bless the fugitive task force, the deputy U.S. marshal with us today who stopped this man. This man responsible for the death of his 2-year-old baby girl throwing her in the car seat, strapped in the car seat, in to a creek bed where she died submerged in water. Her mother so overcome at learning what had happened, she had to be hospitalized.
Steve Jurman, you said it best. A coward. May he rot in hell!
To Doctor Ann Contrucci, pediatrician joining us out of Atlanta. Doctor Ann, what did that child go through in death?
DOCTOR ANN CONTRUCCI, M.D., PEDIATRICIAN: Nancy, you know I have been thinking about this all morning. Just the thought of this kid, the last person she saw was her daddy, so somebody that, you know, your parent`s supposed to take care of you. She`s thrown over a bridge. I mean, I`m getting goose bumps. I can`t imagine. A 2-year-old, the cognitive development, she can be terrified.
So, this poor child, I`m sure, was terrified. I almost wish she would have been dead before he threw her over the side because the minutes of terror she must have had or the struggle in the water, she`s strapped in to a car seat. She can`t get out. This is one of the most heinous things I have ever heard. And for somebody to say he`s mentally ill, no. This is pure evil. This is staring at pure evil. Sociopathic. Diabolical behavior. That`s all it is. I think it`s the -- one of the most heinous things I have seen or heard of and I can`t imagine what this poor baby, her last thoughts were.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Renee Rockwell, Hugo Rodriguez.
You know, Renee, all those years I worked at the battered women`s center, you know, when you and I would leave the courthouse. This woman, just take off your defense hats for a moment. This woman filed a TRO, Renee, and the court dismissed it saying there was not enough evidence.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not worth the paper it`s written on, right, Nancy. It`s worth the paper it`s written on.
GRACE: I`m not arguing with you guys right now about defense/prosecution. What I`m saying is, you know, I was looking at one of those shots of Tierra and she had on the same exact little pink pajamas that Lucy has from target.
Can you imagine, Renee, you`ve known my twins since birth. 2 years old. How trusting they are. How loving they are. To pick her up in her car seat and throw her in that creek and all B.S. aside, Renee, you know that he can go to the pawn, if he can go to the pawnshop and pawn jewelry for his train ticket. If he had the wherewithal to throw her belongings in to a dumpster at an apartment complex, lie to the mom on all those texts, Tierra is resting, she is fine. And the mom knew it, Renee and Hugo.
She was getting more and more and more upset. He wouldn`t bring the baby home. She knew the court system was not going to help her. She knew the effect wasn`t going to help her and ended up being hospitalized. This is her only child, Renee.
Renee, what would you give to have a little baby like Tierra?
ROCKWELL: Everything.
GRACE: How much money would you pay? What limb --
ROCKWELL: Everything.
GRACE: To have a baby like that.
ROCKWELL: All four. Just enough to lean over and kiss that baby. But Nancy, I hope defense hat off, I only hope he at least drove around long enough for that poor little baby to fall asleep that she did not know what hit her. That`s my only hope.
GRACE: OK. Rodriguez, weigh in.
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER FBI AGENT: Taking off my lawyer hat, the system really, really abused Tierra as did her father. And unfortunately, almost in every state. We had a similar situation here in Miami-Dade county where a lady repeatedly went back in to get temporary restraining orders on her husband. The court refused it and two days he went in to her restaurant, shot and killed her. That was last week. Each of the states really needed to look at this. Tierra, the system failed her. The system failed her.
ROCKWELL: And Nancy, you wonder why people just take -- sorry. You wonder why people take matters in their own hands.
GRACE: I don`t wonder.
ROCKWELL: Just killing.
GRACE: I don`t wonder at all. I don`t wonder at all. OK. Let me get back on track here. Sandra in D.C., what is your question, dear?
SANDRA, CALLER, D.C.: Hi. I just wanted to know. They said that the girl was in his custody. But I wanted to know has he been formally charged with her murder and was there any problems going on, any restraining orders? How do actually we know basically that he did this?
GRACE: OK. I guess you missed the first 30 minutes of our discussion.
Yes, he`s in custody thanks to the U.S. deputy marshal Steve Jurman with us, the fugitive task force. Yes, there had been a TRO. Yes, there had been four calls to DFS. The baby girl is dead. Now all I can hope for since New Jersey doesn`t have the death penalty is life without parole.
Right now, a special thank you to CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti visiting family across the Ohio river in Newport, Kentucky. Susan was given this flier. It is a shot of me giving tips to parents to protect children. Susan. Thanks so much for all you do and your enthusiasm and support for keeping our children safe. Susan Candiotti.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was outside the West Ridge Wal-Mart that police say 38-year-old Patrick and his 20-year-old girlfriend --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He kept telling them no, I want to sell you the baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Asking price 25 bucks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: $25. You know? I mean, that`s just -- it`s just a price alone is just -- you know what I`m saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tomicini is accepting blame. As for (inaudible) - -
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said it was all a joke. Police went looking for the parents and their baby and found them at the apartment complex.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby nicknamed peanut seen in these photos was taken away by police and mom and dad according to police were high on crystal meth.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: OK. What a bunch of freaks. We all know you can get a deal at Wal-Mart. A rollback. But who thought it? A baby for just $25. Thanks, mom and dad.
To Alexis Tereszuck, senior reporter, radaronline.com, what happened?
ALEXIS TERESZUCK, SENIOR REPORTER, RADARONLINE.COM (vie telephone): (inaudible) were outside of a Wal-Mart. They approached a few women and said we need $25. We`ll give you our baby. And this shocked the women. They immediately called the police and the parents were arrested. They were -- when the police went to the home, they found out that they were high on meth.
GRACE: High on meth, Clark Goldband. $25. They`re trying to sell their baby.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It`s important to point out, Nancy, that at the time the good Samaritans and who knows what may have happened if they didn`t take down the license plate and call cops, thought these two were joking. He asked to use a cell phone according to reports and then said, hey, want to buy my baby in $25 and they kind of chuckled and then quickly realized he was serious.
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, president, founder, Klaas Kids foundation. We wonder how children get kidnapped and abused. Weigh in.
MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, we also realize that these kinds of situations create the next generation of abusers. The reality with crack cocaine or, I`m sorry, with crystal meth, is that we can end the epidemic of crystal meth in this country simply by removing products that have Sudafedrine from the shelves of our drugstores.
If we put those behind the counter then there`s no more manufacturing of meth and we can end this situation. And these kinds of horrible deals where people have such a lack of judgment are so far gone that they`re willing to give or sell their kids for nothing.
GRACE: You know, Sheryl McCollum, I hate to say but when we were in the trenches together, I remember first time I heard of a house blowing up in north Georgia I went, whoa. A house blew up and I looked around and all the other prosecutors were laughing and went, hello, they had to be cooking up meth there on the hot plate. And sure enough. That`s what happens.
Explain what Marc Klaas is talking about, Sudafed, et cetera. And you know for instance, now, a lot of times when you get these in other drugs in the drugstore, you have to sign for it and still OTC, over the counter. Explain.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIRECTOR, COLD CASE INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Sure. Here`s the biggest problem. With the Sudafed and you can ask the good doctor about this, it doesn`t stop the cold. It`s just something they use as an ingredient. All the ingredients bought over the counter and once they start cooking it, whether it`s in a clandestine lab, you know a pay by the hour motel or frankly in an RV in the way they`re moving it nowadays is hooking the RV up to a wrecker and law enforcement can`t catch them.
But these two people when you watch the mama talking, she is gigging right there on TV talking about the child and can`t think of her name. And the only redeemable thing that I can say about these two people is unlike the other, piece of garbage father, he didn`t kill her.
GRACE: You know what? You know what? Sheryl, you`re scraping the bottom of the barrel when the best thing you say is they didn`t murder their baby but, you know, I`ll take what you said with a box of salt. Yes, they can cook it up in the car trunk. But hey, not limited to RVs and mobile home parks. You know, some high-priced meth being cooked up in multi-million dollar mansions right about now.
Let`s take a look, a shot of daddy with the big black eye. Oh, boo hoo. Daddy got a black eye. Wonder how that happened, Renee Rockwell. Think somebody behind bars found out he tried to sell his baby?
ROCKWELL: I don`t know. He may have been crazy enough to resist arrest. But Nancy, here`s a situation where it boils down to resources and education. You don`t want your child? You put on a baseball cap and a pair of sunglasses and go drop it off at the emergency room or the fire department. Instead of throwing it over the side of the bridge. I`m kind of glad that they tried to make this move because this baby`s alive today.
GRACE: You know what? You`re right about that. I`d like to report to you, Rodriguez, that the baby has already been adopted to a loving family. And Renee`s right about that one thing. Instead of harming the child, at least the child is alive.
What about daddy? I guess he tried to resist arrest. Huh oh. Aren`t you going to start crying about police brutality, Rodriguez?
RODRIGUEZ: No. He is a crack head. He was convicted of the charges that they brought against him. Unrelated to the sale and it`s probably what he deserves.
GRACE: Well, nobody`s advocating police brutality.
RODRIGUEZ: I`m not --
GRACE: This is the guy who put his baby up for sale outside a Wal- Mart. Doctor Ann Contrucci, have you heard anything like it?
CONTRUCCI: Not like this, Nancy. It`s just goes back to what I say so many times. Some people, some people don`t need to be parents. Period.
GRACE: And now, with my friend Kristin Chenoweth who cheered me on in "Dancing with the Stars," CNN heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIN CHENOWETH, ACTRESS: Hi, I`m Kristin Chenoweth, as founder of Maddy`s Corner; I`m celebrating the bond between people and their pets while lending a helping paw to those who needs. Now, I`m absolutely thrilled to help introduce one of this year`s top ten CNN heroes.
RICHARD ST. DENIS, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: In Mexico, people with disabilities who can`t get around have no options. Their world is the four walls of their house. When someone has a disability, the whole family has to pitch in to help them. If they don`t have the money, the care they provide is the very basic care.
My name is Richard St. Denis. I take wheelchairs to people in Mexico that can`t afford them but really need them.
In 1976, I broke my back skiing and severed my spinal cord. I see what happened to me as an opportunity to help other people with disabilities.
We collect used wheelchairs from the United States, in race cargo. We teach them how to use it.
Yes! Mobility means being independent and more active. Someone said, Richard, I want to thank you for giving up your legs so we could have a better quality of life.
When I see them happy, seeing their self confidence, I know people`s lives are getting better.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything I think that was done is just really wrong, very unfair. We`ve suffered enough. What turned into how we`re such -- that we would sell the love of our life for $25, I mean, that`s just -- just the price alone is just sick. You know what I`m saying?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Alexis Tereszuck, hold tight. Let`s go to the lines. Kay in Tennessee.
Hi Kay, what`s your question?
KAYE, CALLER, TENNESSEE: Hi, thanks for taking this, Nancy. As they this, as not been involved with the child before the situation?
GRACE: Good question. Alexis, what do we know? DFS involved in any way?
TERESZUCK: They were not with this particular child until the arrest happened. They took the child away initially. But they returned her to her parents. They said they really tried to give the parents a second chance, and then realized this wasn`t going to happen, they realized they are serious drug addicts. So they took the child away.
GRACE: So, they took the baby away. And you just heard that wasn`t that the mom claiming -- all right. Doctor Carolle Lieberman, they had the baby taken away. And by the way, inmates gave the guy a black eye, not the police. Don`t drag the police into this.
Doctor Carolle Lieberman, she already had the baby taken away, her and the dad, and yet they did this when they in fact give back the baby, thanks DFS. So, what do you make of that, Carolle?
DOCTOR CAROLLE LIEBERMAN, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: What I make of it is that there needs to be all over this country more training for the people who are going out to these cases because I have seen in my own experience in my clinical practice and as a forensic psychiatrist, DCFS, whatever it is called in the different states make mistakes. They give people back the baby who shouldn`t have the baby and they take the baby away from people that should have it.
GRACE: Well put, Carolle Lieberman.
Let`s stop and remember Army Officer Adrian Stump, 22, Pendleton, Oregon. Killed in Afghanistan. Bronze star, purple heart, six region warrant officer of the year. That`s the award now named in his honor. A pilot. Loved flying and time with family and friends. Leaves behind parents Anne and Jerry, a brother Ryle, sisters Gillie and Molly. Adrian Stump, American hero, just 22.
Thank you to our guests but especially to you for being with us.
And tonight, a special good night from the New York control room. Good night, Liz, Bret, Dana, who is in the middle? Rosie, long time, no see.
And tonight, good night from Brazilian friend, Eduardo. Thanks for visiting the show, Eduardo and Renee.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
