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Police: Shannon Gilbert Not Victim of Serial Killer; Does Ad Blame Rape Victims?

Aired December 9, 2011 - 19:00   ET



JIM MORET, HLN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, the desperate search for a missing woman police believe could be the victim of a serial killer. Shannon Gilbert vanished last year in Oak Beach, Long Island, and was heard screaming for help. The bodies of ten people have been recovered in the very same area. Is this the work of a serial killer, and will authorities finally find Shannon?

And troubled country star Mindy McCready in the fight of her life. After taking her son from his legal guardian and hiding out in an Arkansas home, Mindy is battling her own mom for custody of the boy. The singer, who`s pregnant with twins, says she`s learned from her mistakes. You won`t believe the bizarre allegations of abuse she`s making against her own mother. I will talk to Mindy`s father.

Plus, Octomom scores a six-figure deal for her own show. Nadya Suleiman gave birth to eight children when she already had six at home. Now, she will be giving parenting advice and -- get this -- guidance on how to shop on a budget. Should a woman who`s facing foreclosure and been accused of child neglect really be America`s next self-help guru? We`ll be taking your calls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She stood there staring at me, yelling "Help me, help me."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think she was the victim of a serial killer?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was targeting a specific group of women.

RICHARD DORMER, SUFFOLK COUNTY POLICE COMMISSIONER: If there are any more bodies out there, we want to find them.

MARI GILBERT, SHANNON GILBERT`S MOM: Her last phone call was 23 minutes to 911.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was her, you know, get away from me, get away from me. And she was running and knocking on people`s doors.


MORET: The search intensifies for a woman who may have been targeted by the Long Island serial killer.

Hello, everyone. I`m Jim Moret from "Inside Edition," sitting in for my friend, Jane Velez-Mitchell.

Police have been scouring the area of Oak Beach, New York, wading through woods and digging in marshes, after finding items they believe belonged to Shannon Gilbert. Shannon vanished in May of last year. Her disappearance led police to the remains of ten other individuals, all believed to be the victims of a single serial killer. But even after finding Shannon`s belongings in the same area, police still think Shannon was not one of the serial killer`s victims.


DOMINICK VARRONE, SUFFOLK COUNTY POLICE CHIEF: The items were found a distance apart in the manner of someone just running wildly into this marshy area in the very early morning, dark hours.


MORET: Now, you have to remember, this serial killer is still at large. As far as we know, police don`t even have a suspect. But police are now saying, even if Shannon Gilbert wasn`t one of his victims, they doubt she`s still alive. This news came as a shock to her distraught mother.


GILBERT: My hope is that we`ll find her alive. I`ve wanted that for so long, for so much.


MORET: Straight out to former police detective, Steve Kardian. Why do police believe Shannon died in an accidental death, perhaps in a drowning, they`re saying, when there was an active serial killer in the very same area?

STEVE KARDIAN, FORMER POLICE DETECTIVE: Well, Jim, we have to look at are they missing something or are they withholding something from us?

When she initially made that 911 call, they identified the john. They identified that she was with her boyfriend who was likely acting as her pimp. And significantly -- well, not significant. It`s a little bit further northeast than the other bodies, but she has a lot in common. She was taken off Craigslist. She was a prostitute. She was a young, white woman that was buried with these other women, so it really confuses me that they`re saying this now.

MORET: Does it, do you think the police are too quick to have said early on that this woman was not one of the serial killer`s targets, and they`re simply sticking with that story to avoid embarrassment?

KARDIAN: No, I don`t think they`re looking to avoid embarrassment. Either they have -- they`re withholding information from the public, which they have the right to do and which they likely are doing, or in fact, they have sufficient information to support the fact that she is not one of the victims, but it`s just too coincidental to me, Jim.

MORET: Listen to what Suffolk County police commissioner Richard Dormer says about how Shannon Gilbert may have died.


DORMER: This may be just a young lady, ran into the brush in a, hysterical state and fell down and, you know, expired for some reason.


MORET: Want to go out now to Lorraine Ella, who joins us on the phone.

Lorraine, you are the mother of Megan Waterman, one of the victims of this serial killer. And I know this is an extremely painful time for you. We thank you very much for joining us tonight. What is your opinion of this police investigation?

LORRAINE ELLA, MOTHER OF MEGAN WATERMAN (via phone): I don`t think they (AUDIO GAP) if they had, why didn`t they see it and (AUDIO GAP) if they...

MORET: We`re having a problem with the audio here, and I apologize to our viewers and also to Ms. Ella.

Steve Kardian, let me just bring you back in here, former police detective coming to us from New York. The investigation must be troublesome not only to Shannon`s family, but clearly to the families of these other victims, because there could potentially be two different killers out there, both of whom are still at large.

KARDIAN: Well, Jim, I think we`re looking from the most recent accounts at one killer. And understand, this is a significantly investigative challenge for law enforcement.

And the public is under the influence of what we refer to as the Hollywood effect. That these crimes will be involved in a very short period, like in two episodes on "CSI." However, we look at the past, just when we see the Green River Killer, went on a 20-year killing spree, killing 48 women. Robert Yates, 17 women in the `90s. And you see just recently the Grim Sleeper, who was responsible for many killings in the L.A. area.

So, sometimes, these take months, years and even longer.

MORET: Let`s take a look at this map showing our viewers two beaches. Marked one Gilgo Beach, where most of the remains of the ten victims were found, and then there`s Oak Beach, the focus of the current search.

And you can see how close in proximity these beaches are to one another. Steve, they`re only seven miles apart, and you mentioned the Green River Killer. Often, killers focus on one area. And you look at this map, and you know, I`m sitting on the West Coast. To me, that looks like pretty much the same area.

KARDIAN: It is the same are, Jim. It`s very much in close proximity to the other bodies. That coupled with all the other information that I mentioned earlier: her being a prostitute, her being taken off the Craigslist. It certainly raises a lot of suspicion. And -- again, law enforcement may be withholding some very valuable information that they`re keeping very close to the vest with regard to this investigation.

MORET: Let`s show you a timeline now: 4:45 a.m. on May 1, 2010. The man we`re about to show you may have been the last person to see Shannon Gilbert alive. Listen to this.


GUS COLLETTI, VICTIM ASKED FOR HIS HELP: I haven`t slept in two nights. I could have saved that girl if I`d have known something was going to happen. I could have kept her from getting out of here. That weighs heavily on your mind.


MORET: You`re going to hear the frustration in his voice. Let`s take a look at the timeline now, the search for Shannon.

May of 2010, she disappears without a trace. Then on Tuesday -- that`s just three days ago -- her pocketbook with her I.D. is found on Oak Beach. Police also find jeans, a pair of shoes that they believe might have belonged to Shannon.

The next day, on Wednesday, police recover a cell phone that they believe was hers. And yesterday, searchers used heavy machinery to dig in a marsh, attempting to find her body.

Rebecca Nitkin, criminal defense attorney, do these discoveries indicate to you murder or tragic accident? And I guess first is, all of these things found so -- so close in time, but a year after -- a year and a half after this girl has gone missing, very curious, isn`t it?

REBECCA NITKIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It is very curious, and I actually obviously don`t have the answer, but I do have something to focus on, and that is that we all are very much aware that there is an extremely dangerous predator that is on the loose. And that means that there have been more murders than the ten bodies that they have found and without any doubt at all, there are going to be more murders. So...

MORET: Why do you say that? Why do you say that?

NITKIN: We know that because serial killers cannot stop killing. And by virtue of the word, serial killer, and it has been stated there is a serial killer in Long Island, that means that this person, this murderer, is continuing the kill.

We also know that serial killers are extremely comfortable in their kill zone area. So we found the kill zone area; we found ten bodies. Unfortunately, it was because of Shannon Gilbert, but there`s ten bodies there. That means there`s more bodies, and this individual is extremely comfortable in this zone.

So, my question is why hasn`t this not been national media frenzy instead of quiet for so long?

Now, the gentleman that just spoke said people expect this to be a Hollywood movie that -- or a "CSI" episode where it`s settled and finished in two episodes. We`re going on 11 years here.

And it doesn`t seem to me, and I -- obviously, I think it`s because of the young lady`s choice of employment. And that`s wrong. What if these were ten Harvard male graduates? We would have much more work from the police department and from the FBI instead of bragging that we brought in a helicopter. Look at how much money was spent.

MORET: We`re giving it national exposure right now. And we`re just getting started on this story.

NITKIN: Thank you.

MORET: Later, does a new ad actually blame the victims of rape? Creators of that ad say no, but others are outraged.

But first, the desperate search for a killer on Long Island.


DORMER: I don`t think it`s a coincidence that four bodies ended up in this area. You know, that`s a good -- you know, that`s a good direction to go that they were all dumped here by the same person. We were looking at that, that we could have a serial killer.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... found what appeared to be and was a human skull off the side of the road.

DORMER: We have now another body found in the same area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just the worst feeling. I feel like I`ve been stabbed in my stomach.

COLLETTI: I could have saved that girl if I had known something was going to happen. I could have kept her from getting out of here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our group is out here investigating specific locations.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That he was targeting a specific group of women on a specific Web site.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She walked out the door and was never seen again.

DORMER: If there are any more bodies out there, we want to find them.


MORET: Breaking news in the case of missing Shannon Gilbert. Is her disappearance connected to the Long Island serial killer?

Hello, everyone. I`m Jim Moret from "Inside Edition," filling in for my friend Jane Velez-Mitchell.

More than a year and a half after she went missing, items belonging to Shannon Gilbert have been found on Oak Beach in New York. Police still don`t believe that she was a victim of the Long Island serial killer, who`s suspected of killing at least 10 individuals in that very same area.

In one case, the killer even called the family of a victim and taunted them. Listen to this.


LYNN BARTHELEMY, VICTIM`S MOTHER: At that point was five days when the first call came in, and caller I.D., Melissa, she answers. She`s all excited, and there`s a guy on the other end. We didn`t know what he did to her, if she was still alive. He wouldn`t say, you know, if he wanted money.


MORET: That horrifying call was reportedly made from Times Square, where it was so busy and crowded it would be difficult, if not possible, for police to identify the caller from any surveillance video.

Christine Pelisek, who is a staff writer with "Newsweek" and "Daily Beast," you`ve been covering this story. Many of these victims seem to have been working in the sex trade. And as one of our guests said, that, to her, is one reasons why this has taken so long to reach national attention. First of all, do you agree with that? And what, if anything, does the -- does the victim -- do the victims tell us about the killer`s M.O.?

CHRISTINE PELISEK, STAFF WRITER, "NEWSWEEK": I don`t think it took that long. I don`t agree with that because when the bodies were found last December, the four girls, and they were linked in January, a month later, to you know, the fact that they were Craigslist girls. I mean, the police have been on it from, you know, the very beginning, from last year.

So the other bodies that were discovered in April. They found two women. Their torsos were found in 2000. Another one was found in 2003, but their skulls were found in April along Gilgo Beach. And then they also found an Asian male who was in his 20s and probably died about five or ten years ago, and he was wearing a dress.

And so those women, they knew those two women were in the sex trade, but obviously, they didn`t do much about those two. But with the other ones, I mean, they`ve been making a big effort to find out who the killer is. And the Asian male, they say, you know, he was probably a prostitute. So just recently, you know, like four days before the anniversary, the one- year anniversary, they`re claiming that all the bodies are the work -- all the killing are the work of one serial killer. So...

MORET: The Gilbert family`s -- the Gilbert family`s made a serious effort to find Shannon. Listen to what her sister has said about this ongoing search.


SARRA GILBERT, SHANNON`S SISTER: From phone records, we determined her last call was to 911. And pretty much from there, we tried to do our own investigation. We made up fliers, passed them out, went door to door and knocked, making up notes to give to (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I actually found a piece of her jewelry, which happened to be an earring.


MORET: Christine Pelisek, Shannon`s center mentioned that they found jewelry, now a pocketbook, a cell phone. What do those clues tell us, if anything, about where and how this woman disappeared?

PELISEK: I think she, all along, she was still in the area. I mean, she ran from Gus Colletti`s house and ran towards the water, really close to where that marshland is where they`re actually looking for her body now.

So I think that she frantically ran. I mean, whether she was being chased or not, that`s hard to say. I mean, I don`t think they`ll really know until they find her body to find out whether there`s any, you know, signs of foul play.

But that marshland is ten miles back there. And so it`s going to be really difficult to try to find her. I mean, they found -- they found the cell phone. They found the jeans. You know, they found her pocketbook with her I.D. She`s around.

But, you know, some of that mucky area in the back, it`s like -- some of it`s about two or three feet deep. And so I have a feeling it`s going to be very, very hard to find her. And if they do, they`re going to have to look for signs of whether there`s, you know, some kind of foul play. And I really think that she remains in that area.

And it`s different from the other victims. They were all found on the other side of the parkway. And so it looked like for them, you know, somebody was driving a car and then dumped their bodies off. But they`re all found about, you know, 20 feet or so from the ocean parkway. So it looked like the guy got out of the car, grabbed the body...

MORET: I just want -- let me just jump in for -- because I want to bring in Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, supervisor of the sex crimes unit. I want to get your perspective, Stacey, on this.

Police are trying to use Craigslist, perhaps, as a vehicle for locating the person who may have been responsible for some of these slayings.

Talk about -- about what you can see from the investigation and how it`s proceeding on what police specifically are looking for and how they will find the suspect.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, certainly, we`re all sitting here and we`re speculating. There is a lot more information that I`m sure they`re not divulging, because for them to make a bold statement that they think she accidentally died, I think, leads us to believe that they do have some concrete evidence of that.

I think it`s very interesting that all of the personal items were recently found, because -- recently found, excuse me. Because now they`re going to try to figure out how long all of that has been there.

You know, it`s very interesting, Jim. Sometimes in serial killings, if in fact, this is the work of a serial killer with Melissa -- you know, sometimes, they leave a trail when they want to be found. We saw that in some other big, high-profile cases. Maybe this is a calling card...

MORET: Stacey, I have to jump in. I`m sorry. We have a hard out. I`ve got to thank my panel. We have much more coming up.

But coming up, outrage over a new ad that some say blames the victims of rape. We`re going to hear what you have to say when you take a look at this, obviously.

Also, Mindy McCready, her ongoing saga coming up. Stay with us.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s terrible. I think if it were in a bar, like in a ladies` room bathroom, it might make them think twice. Beyond that, I don`t think it`s appropriate.


MORET: Outrage over a controversial ad that makes jarring references to date rape. These images are part of an ad campaign in Pennsylvania meant to warn people about the dangers of binge drinking, but does it go too far? Many people say it looks like they`re blaming the victims.

After a flood of complaints, the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board pulled the images from the campaign. Here`s what they had to say: "Our intent with the campaign as a whole was to raise awareness about binge drinking and the dangers associated with it. Our intent was certainly not to blame the victim."

Stacey Honowitz, no matter what their intentions were, you look at this ad, how could anybody think that this ad was a good idea?

HONOWITZ: Well, somebody that obviously likes shock value and trying to get a message across. I mean, I see a lot of cases -- I do see a lot of cases, Jim, with binge drinking that end up in a situation where date rape is the accusation.

But I think, in this case, rape victims, in and of itself, feel so violated and are so violated, that when you see it compounded with an ad like this, it only adds insult to injury. So while I think they were trying to get a message across, I don`t think it was to intentionally try to blame the victim. I do think that they were trying to get across some kind of public service announcement. I think they just did it the wrong way.

MORET: Well, and if you look at the words, "She didn`t want to do it. She couldn`t say no." I mean, clearly, if you look at it specifically at the words, they`re saying, you know, take responsibility for what you do, but you know, when you talk about rape, clearly, you don`t want to blame the victim in this case. It`s just offensive to do so.

And to suggest that friends should look out for their friends, because this ad also appears to blame your friends if they`re not looking out for you. I mean, the only good thing, I suppose, Stacey, is that we`re talking about this issue. But I don`t know if that`s...

HONOWITZ: Can I -- I want to tell you something honestly. I want to tell -- honestly, we do see a lot of cases like this. And when girls come into the office -- and we`re not blaming the victim, but we do ask if friends had watched wow much you drank? Did you know what was going on?

So I do think that talking about it is important. I don`t know if this was the right way to do it, but I think women do have to be careful. I think friends do have to watch out for other friends, because circumstances happen. Things happen and we wind up in court with rape cases because of binge drinking.

So it does happen. Like I said, this just might not have been the best way to get your public service announcement across.

MORET: So they might have missed the mark with the images. In your view, they definitely have a point that people need to be talking more about the dangers of drinking.

Look at these stats we have. Over 97,000 people between the ages of 18 and 24 are the victims of alcohol-fueled sexual assaults. Stacey, those -- those stats are alarming. I`ve got two daughters. I warn them constantly. I even tell them that, if they`re going to a bar -- they`re both over 21. If they`re going to a bar, they leave a drink, order a new drink. You never know what somebody`s going to put in your drink.

HONOWITZ: Absolutely.

MORET: You have to worry about that, too. So you think then -- you`re obviously feeling good that people are addressing this issue.

HONOWITZ: Absolutely. Because not everything gets to see what we see every single day. Thankfully, they don`t. But we in the offices in sex crimes units see it across the nation, where we have a very high rate of women that come in that have drank and didn`t know what happened after. They didn`t want what happened afterwards to happen.

MORET: Stacey, thanks so much for joining us.


MORET: Country star Mindy McCready`s very public and sometimes bizarre custody fight. I`ll speak to her father, coming up next.

You`re watching ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL. I`m Jim Moret, filling in for her. Stay right where you are.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 5-year-old son of country singer, Mindy McCready has been turned over to authorities.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You cannot just snatch the child and run.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Mindy McCready`s 5-year-old son is in protective custody in Arkansas right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She could be held in criminal contempt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officials say they were hiding in a closet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found the country star and the child hiding in a closet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police and U.S. Marshals found him and his mother, Mindy McCready, hiding in a closet at this empty house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: McCready has had a public battle with drug addiction.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She could be locked up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: McCready is also seven months pregnant with twins.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: McCready doesn`t have legal custody of the little boy. It`s her mom and stepfather who do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s relieved her grandson has been found and is safe.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope this is a breaking point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`ll be appearing in court this morning.

MINDY MCCREADY, COUNTRY SINGER: I`m sorry that I have to keep seeing all of you guys in court.


MORET: Tonight, country singer, Mindy McCready breaks her silence about the nasty custody fight over her son.

Welcome back. I`m Jim Moret from "Inside Edition" filling in for Jane Velez-Mitchell.

Mindy`s battling her own mother for custody of her five-year-old son, Zander. During a recent visit, she took Zander from Florida to Arkansas and defied an emergency court order to return him. Days later, U.S. Marshals found Mindy and Zander hiding in a closet in her boyfriend`s Arkansas home.

Here is what she told ABC.


MCCREADY: An attorney said to me, you should bring him back immediately. I said do you realize -- do you have any idea what it is like to have one minute with him -- after having four and a half years without him, not being able to have one second holding him, smelling him and touching him. I`m not going to give up one minute. Not for anything. Not for anyone.


MORET: Mindy`s battle with drug addiction and domestic violence has made more news recently than her music career. Her mom has had legal custody of Zander since Mindy went to prison in 2007. The boy is now in a foster home while a judge decides where he should live.

That case is sealed, but Mindy indicated Monday the judge may rule in her favor.



MCCREADY: I love that man.


MORET: Love that man. She`s talking about the judge.

And straight out to Mindy`s dad, Tim McCready, who joins me on the phone; Mr. McCready, we have to be mindful, this is your daughter and grandson we`re talking about. And we appreciate you coming on with us. Have you talked to your grandson? Do you know how he`s doing in foster care?

TIM MCCREADY, FATHER OF MINDY MCCREADY (via telephone): Yes, I have. I just spoke to him a day before yesterday. He`s doing about as well as you can expect. He doesn`t like the fact where he`s at, but you know, he was in pretty good spirits. After we got there and we got a one-hour visit with him, and by the time we were left, he was, you know, he was feeling a lot better. But, you know, he`s a 5-year-old little kid separated from his parents. That`s tough to take.

MORET: Mindy`s mom, sir your ex-wife, says the allegations that your daughter made about abuse toward Zander are totally false. Here`s what Mindy told "Good Morning America". Listen to this.


M. MCCREADY: Zander was being beaten with a wooden spoon. There are scars on Zander`s back. There are scars on his bottom and his legs from the spoon.

My mother, you know, believes that she is a prophet sent from God. They see dead people in their home all the time or spirits, demons, ghosts, that were encouraging my son to go around with them to churches and stand up on stage and, you know, scream gibberish.


MORET: Tim McCready, let`s start with this claim of physical abuse. You hear your daughter`s claims against your ex-wife, the boy`s grandmother. Do you believe those are true?

T. MCCREADY: Absolutely, 100 percent they are true. And you know, there`s even proof to that. Would you like to know what the proof is?

MORET: Yes, I would.

T. MCCREADY: I can tell you emphatically beyond a shadow of a doubt and I hope you check every single word I say, do not take my word for anything. Check on it all.

Miss Inge, my ex-wife, Mindy`s mom does not have custody of any four of her children. I am the custodial parent of Mindy, my oldest daughter and two sons, Tim McCready Jr. and Joshua McCready. I am the custodial parent of all of them. They were removed from Mrs. Inge`s house. This was well after the divorce. It didn`t have anything to do with the divorce. They were removed for abuse.

MORET: Mr. McCready --

T. MCCREADY: She even had another child -- yes.

MORET: Let me just jump in here because these are explosive allegations you`re making and the fact that -- wait, no, I understand this. But Zander is in a foster home right now while the judge makes a decision.

Sir, do you want custody of Zander? Do you want to make sure that this child is cared for and do you think your ex-wife, his grandmother, is an unsafe person to leave him with?

T. MCCREADY: Absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt. This woman has history. Not just history with this kid, she has history with all four of her kids. She was found irresponsible and abusive to all four of her children. They were removed by the court. She has custody of nothing and the reason why she doesn`t have custody, for abuse.

Now, those are the kind of things that they don`t want you to know, but those are the facts.

MORET: So, are you going to join in this fight then for the custody of your grandson?

T. MCCREADY: Absolutely. I, myself personally as a grandfather, do not want custody of my grandchild. I want Mindy, my daughter, to have custody of her own child. And she is quite --


MORET: Do you think she`s a fit mother?

T. MCCREADY: -- capable of taking care of not only this child, but the two that are coming up.

MORET: Well, but the fact that she ran off with him and the fact that there were SWAT teams sent out looking for him.

T. MCCREADY: There`s a reason for that.

MORET: I can`t even imagine the -- I can`t even imagine the trauma not only to your daughter, but certainly to your grandson.


T. MCCREADY: Absolutely. And there is a reason why she left. It wasn`t according to -- there wasn`t anything that I suggested to her. Matter of fact, she`ll tell you that I told her, I said whatever you do, don`t do this. This is not going to help you and might make things worse, but when I was gone to work, she left.

But the fact is, is she left in order to protect her grandson because -- I mean her son, but my grandson. She left because they were going to give the child back to her mother and this is not acceptable in any sense of the word.

In Florida, I think there is something called a hundred-year law. When your children have been removed from you by the court and then they`re going to turn around and give you somebody else`s child, this doesn`t even make any sense. But the thing is, DCS in Florida are hiding all this information from the judge.

We spent four years trying to talk. All we wanted to do is speak in court for four years, we were shut down. We couldn`t speak. We couldn`t say anything. We couldn`t tell the truth. We couldn`t say anything. And finally --


MORET: Mr. McCready -- Mr. McCready, Mindy had a history of drug -- wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on one second. Mindy clearly had problems with drug and alcohol abuse and the court awarded custody to your ex-wife, to Zander`s grandmother.

T. MCCREADY: No, no, no, no -- she does not --


MORET: Do you -- wait, wait -- do you believe that Mindy is a fit mother at this point? Is she clean and sober?

T. MCCREADY: Absolutely. 100 percent.

MORET: Are you concerned at all that given what`s happened in the last couple of weeks, that when she gives birth to her twins, she`s seven months pregnant now, that the court may take custody of those two children away from your daughter Mindy?

T. MCCREADY: Absolutely not. There`s no legal model that says that they can take her children away from her. No, that`s not -- I don`t think that could possibly happen. But when the truth finds out about Mrs. Inge and all her shenanigans over there, I`ll tell you what -- people are going to have a whole different attitude about this because it`s not what you think.

You`ve spent four and a half years hearing exactly one side of a story and only a fool listens to one side of a story. A wise man listens to all sides of the story. When the other side of the story comes out, it`s going to change everything.

MORET: Sir, have you reached out to the judge who`s deciding on the custody of Zander? Have you reached out to him? Have you tried to talk to him or testify in court about what you`re saying about his grandmother, your ex-wife?

T. MCCREADY: Are you talking about Judge Seals here in Florida or the --


MORET: I`m talking about the judge who`s deciding on the fate of Zander right now, who placed Zander in foster care right now.

T. MCCREADY: I have not been able to talk to the judge in Arkansas. I wasn`t even in the courtroom for the four hours that we were in there pleading our case. When we showed up at the courtroom, Mindy`s new lawyer, he told us we had just about a 5 percent chance, if we were lucky, to spend ten minutes in front of this judge and --


MORET: Mr. McCready, hold on. We have to take a break, but stay with us. We have much more on this story.

Hold on, I don`t mean to interrupt you.

Later, move over Carol Brady and June Cleaver, Octomom has some parenting advice. You won`t want to miss that story. That`s coming up.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: I`ll call you back in a second. I don`t have time right now. Yes. Ok. Bye.

Listen, you know, this job keeps me busy -- crazy busy. But still, I have time to eat healthy. People say I`d definitely eat healthy if I only had more time. Nonsense. You know what; how much time does it take to pick up a piece of fruit, peel it and eat it. A banana, I mean what could be faster than eating bananas. Blueberries, you simply pick them up -- literally pick them up and pop them in your mouth.

This is nature`s fast food. You can do it.



GAYLE INGE, MOTHER OF MINDY MCCREADY: I really think Mindy`s in denial. You know, I think that if you don`t want to see there`s a problem, don`t want to see there`s an addiction problem, then it becomes everybody else`s fault.


MORET: Welcome back. I`m Jim Moret from "Inside Edition" filling in for my friend Jane Velez-Mitchell.

We are on the phone, if you`re just joining us, talking with Tim McCready, father of country singer, Mindy McCready, who you may recall went on the run last week with her 5-year-old son, Zander, claiming that her son was being abused by Zander`s grandmother, Mindy`s mom, who has custody of that boy.

And Tim McCready in the very last segment said that Mindy`s claims of abuse by his grandmother are absolutely true.

I want to go back out to Tim McCready. Sir, I just want to make sure that I`m not misunderstanding you. In fairness, we`re trying to reach Zander`s grandmother, your ex-wife, to get her on the phone, to hear what she has to say, but you are making an emphatic statement that Zander, your grandson, has been abused while in the care of his grandmother, Gayle. Is that correct, sir?

T. MCCREADY: That is correct. And if I -- and if you would give me a second, I would like to quote Mindy`s mom. This is the grandmother, this was in court. This is her speaking, I quote, she said, "I do not know how to love. I only know how to discipline."

MORET: Now, Mindy, your daughter, makes additional claims against her mother, your ex-wife, basically accusing her of speaking to dead people. Being in a cult-like religion; what can you speak to as to those claims, sir?

T. MCCREADY: I have witnessed many things, these things before. She actually told me once that when her and her son with the -- the fourth son, Sky, were in the bed one day and the bed was floating around the room. She actually told me about this.

MORET: So, how long have you been concerned for the safety of your grandson --

T. MCCREADY: Since day one.

MORET: -- and what have you done to try to take him?

T. MCCREADY: Since he went over to her house for the first time, I knew this was going to happen. You think this just started four and a half years ago? I`ve got news for you. This story is 40 years old. This is nothing new. This is business as usual. This is the MO. This is what`s been happening for 40 years. There is so much of this story that nobody knows, it`s crazy.

MORET: Well, it`s very difficult to understand why the courts wouldn`t listen to you. Zander has been in the custody of your ex-wife, his grandmother, for four and a half years and if these allegations go back 40 years, why wouldn`t the court listen to you, sir?

T. MCCREADY: We have never even been allowed, not one time, as many times as we`ve been in court, to say anything. We`ve been absolutely, 100 percent shutdown. We`re not allowed to say anything. We`re not allowed to interject anything. We`re not allowed to bring any evidence. We`re not allowed to do anything but sit there and listen.

That is the main reason why -- this was going nowhere in Florida. After four and a half years, we`re no farther along now today than we were four and a half years ago. This was going nowhere. We`d sit there in the courtroom and listen to them talk for an hour on stuff that really doesn`t have anything to do with the case; whether it has to do with the boy or not. This mostly has to do between a war between Mindy`s mom and Mindy. It`s --


MORET: In fairness though -- in fairness though, the judge has taken your grandson and placed him in foster care while he makes a decision about whether Mindy, your daughter, should regain custody. So in that sense, you`re much farther along and at least people are listening and we`re now allowing you to talk and make your claims public. And hopefully, put more attention on this because this is a young boy.

This is your 5-year-old grandson we`re talking about and his safety. Do you think that the court is now mindful that his safety is on the line and will do something about it?

T. MCCREADY: Absolutely. That is the only reason why we were allowed to speak many front of this judge because he found that we were truthful. There is evidence to back up everything that I say. Everything that she says is a lie, I mean a pure lie. And they`re trying to cover up as much information as they can because it`s embarrassing to them.

MORET: Have you talked to your daughter? Have you talked to Mindy?

T. MCCREADY: Absolutely. I talk to her every day. I talk to her dozens -- I just got back from Arkansas. I`ve been in Arkansas for the last week. I was in the courtroom. I was with her the whole time.

MORET: Does she believe that Zander will be with her shortly?

T. MCCREADY: Absolutely. Without a doubt.


T. MCCREADY: We only have to tell the truth. That`s all. As long as we tell the truth, there`s nothing that`s going to stop Mindy from getting her son back.

MORET: Mr. McCready, we just got an e-mail -- I`m sorry to cut you off -- we just got an e-mail from Gayle, your ex-wife who says that none of these allegations are true.

This is clearly a story that`s not going away. We will stay on top of it.

Tim McCready, thank you so much for joining us. We will be back with you for more updates and thanks for joining us.

Next, octomom; you won`t want to miss this story.



NADYA SULEMAN, OCTOMOM: Of course that`s what I said. And I`ll still say it. But I love children. I love children. I love children.

My son is missing. I`m going crazy. I`m going crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We could only hope and pray that Nadya gets the psychological and emotional help she so desperately needs.

SULEMAN: I was afraid and lost and confused.

GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: Our concern is and always has been the protection and the care of these babies.

SULEMAN: I could have taken that Octomom fictional character name that was invented in the media and made millions. I could have.


MORET: Move over Oprah. Octomom is launching OctoTV, starring in her own Internet TV show. And guess what; she will be paid six figures to give parenting advice. That`s right. According to RadarOnline, the mother of 14 will have her own weekly show on UStream.

Here`s a preview of OctoTV from YouTube.


SULEMAN: Hey, My name is Nadya Suleman, a.k.a., known as octomom. These are my eight I had simultaneously about -- almost three years ago.

I have 14 children. The oldest is 10; the youngest is 2 1/2. I do everything for myself. I`m a great caretaker of 14 kids.


MORET: Straight out to RadarOnline senior reporter, Alexis Tereszcuk; Alexis, what do you make of this new show? Do you think that people will really take this seriously? Is it even meant to be serious?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK: I don`t think it`s meant to be serious at all. Nadia knows she has an attraction, people want to see what she`s doing because they think she`s really weird and she plays into that. And this I think is her idea of a way to make money.

And you know, she needs the money desperately. This woman is basically bankrupt. Every month that she can`t pay her bills, the owner of her home says he`s going to foreclose on it. So she`s got to do something to make some money.

And this is really the only way she can. She can`t leave the house. She can`t leave the 14 kids. She can`t afford child care for them so she`s got to do it from there.

MORET: It`s been nearly three years since Nadya infamously had octuplets. And since then, her life can only be described as hectic. Here she is trying to keep up on a regular day at home.


SULEMAN: I have no help. I was defensive and angry. No paid help. We don`t have a nanny. I haven`t had any nanny for six months.


MORET: I have to be honest, our producer at "Inside Edition" had extensive time with Nadya, and by all accounts she`s actually very good at managing her children. Radio and television personality Cooper Lawrence, you interviewed her. I suspect you have a different take?

COOPER LAWRENCE, RADIO AND TV PERSONALITY: I have a little bit of a different take only because she`s a little, how do you say this nicely, not in her right mind at all times. And maybe it`s an act for when she does media and maybe when she`s with the kids she`s as sane and sober as a judge, but that`s the impression I got from her.

I thought to myself if you love these children so much why wouldn`t you consider, just consider adoption because these children can`t have a good life with her. She doesn`t really have any money. Her whole goal was to be famous by having children, so why drag them into it? If you want to be famous, go be famous and make sure these kids can have a good life some other way because she can`t provide for them.

MORET: You`re very quick take in ten seconds on this Internet show?

LAWRENCE: It`s a train wreck. If you`re getting advice from Nadya Suleman, you need much better role models.

MORET: Ok. Stay with us. There`s more on the other side of this break. More on octomom and her new Internet TV show. Stay with us.


MORET: Octomom has a new show coming to the Internet. It`s coming this month. Let`s go out to Noah Levy, senior news editor, "In Touch Weekly". Noah, thanks for being patient. We had Mr. McCready, Tim McCready on and he took a lot of time. And I appreciate you being patient.

I want to get your take on octomom`s latest TV endeavor. What do you make of this?

NOAH LEVY, SENIOR NEWS EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, you know, what they say is when life gives you lemons you make lemonade. But it sounds like this lemonade may be making a lot of mothers out there sick. I mean is this really a woman that you want to be getting maternal advice from?

Actually, close insiders to octomom say even though she is going to be getting up to six figures, they feel like the money could be gone in a matter of years because she doesn`t know how to save money, how to spend money properly and she`s going to be too worried about maintaining her appearance.

MORET: Noah, thank you so much for your time. I`m sorry. We`re out of time.

LEVY: Thank you.

MORET: Thank you for joining us.

I`m Jim Moret. I`ll see you on "Inside Edition". But meanwhile you`re watching ISSUES.

"NANCY GRACE" coming up next.