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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Oklahoma U. Prof Charged with Child Sex Crimes; Woman Fakes Rape to Convince Husband to Move; Vermont Frat Makes Joke about Rape
Aired December 14, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, another alleged pedophile lurking on a university campus? A college professor arrested on charges of rape and child sex allegations. And get this. The University of Oklahoma`s Web page says the 54-year-old teaches a course on human sexuality. Is it a coincidence this man chose a profession where he`s surrounded by young people?
And cops say this woman made up a sick lie, telling her husband she was raped, hoping to convince him they need to move to a safer neighborhood. She allegedly split her own lip, scraped her own knuckles, and even had a friend punch her in the face. Why would she go to such lengths? Did she consider rape so insignificant she could lie about it?
Then, Lindsay Lohan, who just took it all off for "Playboy," struts back into court to give a judge a progress report, even though she just failed to show up for "Ellen." Is she doing everything in her power to put her problems in the past? Plus, we`ve got a sneak peek at that sultry "Playboy" shoot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know how I`d fell, like finding out if my professor I`d had all semester was -- just got charged with that. I think I`d be really weirded out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Many O.U. students are talking about the recent arrest of one of their professors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not only in their classes did they talk about, like, sexual abuse and dealing with the kids that got sexually abused but dealing with the people that sexually abused the kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fifty-four-year-old Dwain Pellebon was booked on two complaints of rape and one complaint of lewd acts with a child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kind of weird that he was one of them and, you know, teaching them about that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just think it`s kind of disturbing to think about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s tragic if it`s true.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t need that on our campus. We don`t need that in our society.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s happened again! More allegations of child sex abuse against a university employee. This time it`s a professor. What on earth is happening on our college campuses?
Good evening, everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you from Atlanta. I`m doing a special event tonight at Atlanta`s Grady High School.
Well, right now the focus is on the University of Oklahoma. This very sick trend of college-related child sex abuse scandals has engulfed the entire nation. Of course, it started at Penn State. Then it spread to Syracuse University in New York. And now a brand-new case has reared its ugly head at the University of Oklahoma.
This man, Dr. Dwain Pellebon, right there, a professor of social work at the university, was arrested Friday. But he`s already out, of course. He posted a mere $75,000 bail and was back on the streets the very same day. He was arrested on two complaints of rape and one complaint of lewd acts with a child younger than 16.
Students at the University of Oklahoma are shaken and outraged because Professor Pellebon -- get this, are you sitting down? -- actually taught classes about, what else? Sexual abuse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only in their classes did they talk about, like, sexual abuse and dealing with the kids that got sexually abused but dealing with the people that sexually abused the kids. It`s kind of weird that he was one of them and, you know, was teaching them about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, we have a noted shrink to analyze that aspect.
The university`s Web site says that one of his courses is called "Sexuality: An examination of sexual behavior, gender difference and values." This is so incredibly disturbing. He was teaching about the very things he`s accused of doing.
How many students did he have access to in his role as professor, teaching about the sick behavior he is now accused of doing himself?
Straight out to Captain Tom Easley of the Norman, Oklahoma, Police Department.
Captain Easley, thank you so much for being here. Listen, we have so many unanswered questions. And you can`t tell us everything. But this professor is charged with lewd acts with a child under 16. My first question, is the victim a he or a she, and when did this happen? How long ago?
CAPTAIN TOM EASLEY, NORMAN, OKLAHOMA, POLICE DEPARTMENT (via phone): I`m sorry I can`t give you those particulars at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why can`t you tell us if it`s a boy or a girl?
EASLEY: No crime has been formally charged.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why not?
EASLEY: Well, it takes -- it takes some time in circumstances like these, because we have a lot of evidence to sort through. And the district attorney wants as much information as they can possibly get before they formalize the charge.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How did this...
EASLEY: My understanding that the charge will be formally filed before the end of the week.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How did this all come out?
EASLEY: I`m sorry, I don`t understand the question.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How did this all come out? How did you learn that somebody is accusing him of these horrific acts?
EASLEY: We received a referral from another agency that I`m not at liberty to discuss in detail at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, was that other agency the university?
EASLEY: I`m not at liberty to discuss that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Well, Captain, I want to thank you. I`m glad you came on, but I don`t know that you`re able to tell us anything. So I don`t know what else to ask you. I mean, is there anything you can tell us that we haven`t asked you?
EASLEY: We have executed two different -- two separate search warrants, and we`re processing that evidence even as we speak. A lot of it is computer related. We don`t know if there are more victims, but we`re certainly investigating to see if we have additional victims. There may even be additional charges in regard to the one victim that we do have.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. So, in essence, sir, you`re coming on our show to say, "Hey, if you`ve had this experience, come forward and contact authorities"?
EASLEY: Sure. Absolutely. Especially in Norman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Norman, Oklahoma. OK. Well thank you. Well, we`re getting the word out right now as we speak.
Now students at the University of Oklahoma were understandably horrified. They were shocked. They were like what? Especially the female students. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really creepy. I don`t know how I`d feel finding out if my professor I`d had all semester was -- just got charged with that. I think I`d be really weirded out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now here`s the university`s reaction. They said in a statement, "We acted swiftly -- swiftly to suspend Professor Pellebon from any contact with students. He was paid on -- placed on paid administrative leave until more facts are known."
Now that`s what I`d like to ask you, Mark Eiglarsh, criminal defense attorney. If they were a bus driver and he was accused of this, do you think he would be on paid leave? Do you think that there`s something questionable about him being able to just waltz in and out on $75,000 bail. He`s free tonight, and he`s also getting paid.
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think there was anything wrong with that. Jane, you just tried to get facts out. I`ve read articles. They are scant, if any, detail. What we do know is that someone is accusing him of a crime. OK. No charges have been brought yet. He might be very guilty, and thus, all of the things that you`re suggesting might be relevant.
But right now I don`t know what they`re alleging. I don`t know what corroboration there is. Search warrants have been issued. There`s been no indication that any evidence corroborates what the witnesses is saying. We don`t know if it`s a guy or a girl. That`s relevant. But we don`t know the age; we don`t know the circumstances. We don`t know enough to condemn this guy. I`d give him the presumption of innocence at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you`re making a very good point, certainly. And we did reach out to his lawyer. We`ll read a statement in a second. But if his lawyer or if he wants to come on, I`d love to have him on the show any time.
Now, take a look what I think is sort of an odd timeline. You can decide whether you think it`s suspicious. Earlier this year Professor Pellebon took a leave of absence from a board he served on, the Cleveland County Chapter of Court-Appointed Special Advocates, an organization that, believe it or not, advocates for children in the juvie court system.
And then -- hmm -- in October, he suddenly leaves the university through the Family and Medical Leave Act.
So I want to ask Mark Serrano. You`re a survivor of abuse. You`re a survivors` advocate. Do you think that`s odd that, all of a sudden, months before he`s arrested, that he`s resigning from this, that, he`s stepping -- does it signal to you that perhaps more was known about what was coming down the pike? And if so, is there a lack of transparency here? Should something have happened in October if, in fact, people in authority found out that these allegations were on the horizon?
MARK SERRANO, SURVIVORS` ADVOCATE: Yes, Jane. Clearly we got a few pieces of the puzzle now, and it`s obvious to me that, if he resigned from that board, somebody at the university must have known that there was a serious accusation about him.
This is a fresh reminder that people who work around kids have a high, high duty to report anything suspicious they may see or know or sense. They`ve got a responsibility to do that. And universities or major institutions, this shows us their crisis response, crisis communications response must include full transparency, and we don`t see that yet from this university at all.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I mean, we heard their statement, but I just think it`s very odd timing that he suddenly steps away and takes a leave in October. And then this happens.
Now take a look at this. A reporter in Oklahoma went to Professor Dwain Pellebon`s home. And what they found was a note on the door saying, "Contact my attorney." Well, they did. And here`s what the attorney said: "Dr. Pellebon denies all allegations. Formal charges have not been filed." Of course, Dr. Pellebon again and his attorney are invited on this show any time.
Dr. Judy Kuriansky, I`m sure you have an analysis of the irony of him teaching about sexuality, teaching students about sexual abuse and now being accused of the very same thing.
DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly, I do. As a psychologist and also as a sex therapist and as a sex educator who has taught, Jane, for 30 years college students and graduate students about human sexuality. So I know the story inside and out, how important it is to follow ethics. We have them from the American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors, and Therapists.
And this guy is an example of a bad apple, just like the college coaches who are pedophiles, or the priests who turn out to be pedophiles. There are those bad apples in every group. These are people who have access to kids and purposely do that, like -- like the child abusers who become clowns so that they can be with kids. So that`s one issue about this.
The second is that these people have reaction formations. They purposely go into a field where they can talk about an issue that they are sinning themselves from.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. They present the exact opposite of what they are.
KURIANSKY: Yes, exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, again, these are just accusations. Great analysis, as always, Dr. Judy.
Cops say a psychologist faked her own rape. This is even more bizarre. Sadly, she`s not the only one trivializing brutal sexual assaults. The unbelievable story next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was kind of crazy. They wanted to move to another neighborhood. That`s messed up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Laurie Martinez had told colleagues at New Folsom State Prison she was going stage a home invasion to convince her husband they should move from their Northgate area home to a better neighborhood.
ANDREW PETIT, SACRAMENTO POLICE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: We thought that something happened to her. She was injured. Very emotional.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was kind of crazy. They wanted to move into another neighborhood. That`s messed up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Public outrage as cops say a woman faked her own violent rape just to get her husband to move to a, quote, "better part of town." Are you kidding me?
Police say this woman, a 36-year-old licensed psychologist, Laurie Ann Martinez, faked a violent home invasion and rape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETIT: Glass had been broken. Looked like some -- like there was some type of struggle. Her clothes had been torn, and she had some injury to her face, the side of her face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops said she went al lout with this ruse. Here are a list of her self-inflicted injuries, allegedly. She split her own lip with a pin. Scraped her knuckles with sandpaper. And then -- this is the kicker, you might say -- she had her friend punch her in the face. She ripped her blouse open and -- now this is actually the kicker -- et her pants on purpose.
Martinez even said that credit cards and laptops had been stolen, but investigators say they later found them at the home of the friend who had punched her in the face, allegedly.
Cops uncovered this hoax, because she allegedly told her co-workers at the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, where she counseled inmates, about her devious plan. And now the husband she was reportedly trying to dupe into moving is -- well, this is no surprise anyway -- divorcing her.
Straight out to Sonia Ossorio, executive director of New York City`s National Organization for Women.
You work so hard to get rape taken seriously. Does this undercut everything that you and so many women are working for?
SONIA OSSORIO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NYC`S NOW: Sure. It sure does. You know, every time that there`s a false accusation of rape like this, it`s a really harmful thing.
You know, the fact of the matter is so many raped women actually never report being raped. The reason why? They say because fear of not being believed. So the damage is really deep.
You know, this case is a very disturbing case, you know. She -- this young woman, she needs some help. I mean, the self-injury, the accomplice. And it`s a very unusual case and a very rare case. And I think what`s important to remember is that, you know, any time you have something like this there are 100,000 women that are actually really hurt because they`ve been raped.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m looking at video of you protesting, your organization protesting because rape isn`t taken seriously. And then you have a woman turn around, a psychologist, no less, who counsels inmates. And she allegedly concocts a fake rape, even beating herself up, according to cops.
Now, one of the most shocking parts of this story is that this psychologist enlisted a friend, according to cops, to pull off this scheme. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETIT: We all believed that we thought that something had happened her. She was injured. Very emotional. And then her friend came over and comforted her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. This is the friend who allegedly punched her in the face with boxing gloves, which she, the psychologist, reportedly purchased, and then comforted her in front of the cops. I say with friends like that, who needs enemies?
Judy Kuriansky, we`ve got to bring in a clinical psychologist again. You are a psychologist. This woman is also a psychologist.
KURIANSKY: Oh, my gosh.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: With psychologists like this who needs crazy people?
KURIANSKY: Listen...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, what is going on? We`ve got a professor in the previous story. Now we`ve got a psychologist. Is everybody losing it? Do we need to distribute straight jackets? En masse?
KURIANSKY: We -- what we need is to be able to screen people who have jobs like this better. I`ve been talking about that for a long time. And so we need to screen all kinds of people in jobs who have access.
Take a look at -- it makes sense to me psychologically what`s going on with this woman as an -- as an odd case.
First of all, she`s attracted to a job like that, working with prison inmates who are violent, because inside she likely has her own violent urges that she`s controlling by doing the opposite kind of job.
Second of all, she`s learning from the prison inmates how to carry out these kinds of crimes. She`s listening to them all the time. And that`s why she then has all these concocted plans that she knows. So those two things explain how this woman can get into it, but she certainly...
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know what? What I`ll say, Dr. Judy, is that this isn`t about real estate. Something else must have been seriously wrong with this marriage.
KURIANSKY: Yes, agree.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because I don`t think real estate...
KURIANSKY: Yes, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... causes somebody to do something allegedly this completely insane.
KURIANSKY: Right. Exactly. She was probably violent, and that`s why he wanted to divorce her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But you know what? Here`s the crazy thing. On top of all of this insanity this isn`t the first time we heard of a woman faking a rape.
You remember that New York weather reporter, Heidi Jones? You remember her, right? She said she was attacked by a stranger, and she made up a whole story. And she later admitted that she made it up.
Now, Mark Serrano, you are a survivor of sexual abuse. We have heard in the cases like the Penn State case, the attorney saying, "Oh, everybody is lying." This is the kind of thing that undercuts those who are trying to tell a true story.
SERRANO: It truly does, Jane, because the survivors and victims of abuse are fearful for -- to come forward in the first place. And so, responses from the community or from institutions need to be welcoming victims to come forward. And frankly, I think the laws need to be tougher for perpetrators but also for those -- those who might file a false claim.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Give women hope. Rape is not a joke. Give women hope. Rape is not a joke.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Give women hope. Rape is not a joke. Give women hope. Rape is not a joke.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Give women hope. Rape is not a joke. Give women hope. Rape is not a joke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Women chanting "take rape seriously," but everywhere you turn, it seems like people are taking rape lightly and making a joke out of it. I don`t know if you remember this horrific chant from a Yale University fraternity. Here it is on LiveLinks.com.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes means (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No means yes. Yes means (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No means yes. Yes means (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No means yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes means (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No means yes. Yes means (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No means yes. Yes means (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No means yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes means (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No means yes. Yes means (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No means yes. Yes means (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No means yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can you believe that? "No means yes. Yes means that" we can`t even tell you, but use your imagination. That Yale University fraternity embarrassed itself and the Ivy League school.
Now we`ve got another frat in hot water. Get this. University of Vermont frat brother sent an e-mail survey saying, "Who would you like to rape?" Isn`t that outrageous? Of course it is. It`s disgusting.
Angela Rose, you`re the founder of PAVE, Promoting Awareness Victim Empowerment. You are also the victim of sexual assault yourself. You`re my hero for having the courage to come forward and talk about your experiences. What runs through you emotionally when you see rape being treated as a joke?
ANGELA ROSE, FOUNDER, PAVE: It`s such a slap in the face. Not just for me personally as a survivor but for victims everywhere. And especially on college campuses. Nine out of ten women in college who are raped don`t report the crime. And it`s cases like all of these that you`ve been talking about on the show that keeps people lent.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this woman, this woman who was accused, a psychologist who counsels inmates who may be hanging out with her counselors, if you know what I mean, her patients, if she`s convicted. There she is. OK. She is accused of cutting her own lip, and scraping herself, and having a friend punch her in the face, and then pretending that she passed out, wetting her own pants so that she could try to prove to cops that she was raped so that her husband would move from where they lived to a better neighborhood.
Now, I have to say that, as I spoke with Dr. Judy Kuriansky, we believe, both of us, that this is not about real estate. This is not about wanting to move to a better neighborhood. That there`s a deep psychological issue underlying this. And I`ve got to tell you, Angela, as a victim of sexual assault, do you find it especially horrific when a woman is the worst enemy of women who are trying to get rape taken seriously?
ROSE: I absolutely do, Jane. And the other reason is law enforcement oftentimes don`t take these charges seriously. When I was kidnapped by a person who was on parole for murder I was not believed when I went down to report the crime. And it`s extremely re-traumatizing to go to the police and not be believed. And cases like this, with this woman make it even harder for victims, real victims, to come forward and seek justice.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you ever get closure from an experience like rape, a violent rape that you experienced?
ROSE: Well, talking about it and getting justice is such a great pathway to healing. But for situations where you do feel silenced and you`re not believed, it really hinders the healing process. So we need to make it easier for victims to report, to seek justice, and to heal from these crimes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this woman if, in fact, she did fake a rape, is betraying so many. She`s betraying women who have actually been the victims of sexual assault. She would also be betraying children, boys and girls, who have been the victim of sexual assault who also, as we have seen in the Penn State scandal, are accused of being liars and out for money. It`s horrible.
Up next, an alleged pedophile.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were audible gasps. I mean as you can imagine, the courtroom was packed with reporters. In the middle of the courtroom on one side, you had members of the public. On the other side you had some of Jerry Sandusky`s supporters, members of his church. And there were audible gasps.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a fight to death. This is the fight of Jerry Sandusky`s life. This goes beyond the Penn State/Miami game in `86. This is the game of his life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Defense.
JERRY SANDUSKY, ALLEGED CHILD RAPIST: To stay the course, to play for four quarters. We`ll wait for the opportunity to present our side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the most difficult time of my life. I can`t put in words how unbearable this has been on my life both physically and mentally.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His attorney says they admit that he did touch boys but it was in a nonsexual way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accused of using his position within the community and the university to prey on numerous young boys for more than a decade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He also began to coerce this child, then 10, to satisfy his own perverse sexual impulses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight new outrage at Penn State.
Welcome back, everyone, Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you tonight from Atlanta where I`m doing an event.
Now we`re learning the real reason why Jerry Sandusky at the 11th hour pulled the rug out from under his accusers and waived his right to a preliminary hearing yesterday. And that reason according to Sandusky`s side is that the district attorney agreed the night before not to raise his bail which leads me to ask why is everybody, including the other side, bending over backwards for Jerry Sandusky?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE AMENDOLA, ATTORNEY FOR JERRY SANDUSKY: We got a major concession on Monday night which we didn`t have prior to Monday night from the Commonwealth not to seek a bail increase pending trial. That was a major concession for us to keep Jerry Sandusky out on bail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So why are concessions being made for Jerry Sandusky? Oh, yes there`s collusion at Penn State but it`s not the collusion that Jerry Sandusky`s attorney is referring to. Because he believes it is all a big conspiracy.
Let`s listen to more of him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMENDOLA: The other issue which we`re looking into is whether or not a number of these kids, now grown men, have communicated prior to the filing of charges and after the filing of charges. Now whether or not there`s any possibility of some sort of collusion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? I agree with him on one point. There is a conspiracy at work here but it`s not among the ten alleged victims getting together and concocting stories for money. Oh no.
The conspiracy as I see is with people. You have the powers that be in the university system, Sandusky`s Second Mile charity and then the legal system in Center County, Pennsylvania. It seems to me that everybody has gone out of their way to protect somebody who is accused of being a child rapist.
He`s a football legend at a football school in a football town but he`s also facing more than 50 charges of sex crimes against young boys. Jessica Bennett, senior editor with "The Daily Beast". You were at Sandusky`s hearing yesterday. Now that we`re hearing this backstory, are you even more outraged?
JESSICA BENNETT, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": It`s pretty crazy, you know. I have to say, we talked about audible gasps. We gasped. We couldn`t believe this happened. We had driven all night. We were there. Everybody was expecting to see these victims` face Sandusky for the first time. And there we were with nothing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why, I ask, is Jerry Sandusky out on bail tonight? Why is the district attorney, if Jerry Sandusky`s attorney is speaking the truth, making major concessions? Why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDUSKY: We stay the course, to fight for four quarters. We`ll wait for the opportunity to present our side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This guy is making football analogies and treating this like it`s a game. Yes, he has to wear an ankle bracelet but he`s still out on a mere $250,000 bail. I don`t even know if he`s going to have to show up when he`s arraigned.
Slade McLaughlin, you`re an attorney for alleged Victim Number One, victim of Jerry Sandusky, allegedly.
SLADE MCLAUGHLIN, ATTORNEY FOR VICTIM NUMBER ONE: Correct.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How long might this guy be out? I mean they make this concession. They say they`re not going to raise bail. This trial might not start for years. Is he going to be free for years until his trial starts?
MCLAUGHLIN: Jane, let me speak to that issue. First off, bail is not punitive. Bail is to ensure that someone will appear for trial. Everyone who is arrested is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty so unless there`s some flight risk, and I don`t think Sandusky is a flight risk, I don`t think the bail is inappropriate.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a second. What about a risk to the community? Isn`t that something that we should consider that he could be a risk to the community?
MCLAUGHLIN: Jane, I have to say with the scrutiny this man is under the media outside his house with cameras I really find it hard to believe that anyone has any concerns that he`s going to go out and abuse anyone else at this point.
I think the prosecutor has actually got a lot out of what they did in terms of giving up this, the bail and agreeing not to raise it. They spared the victims including my client of coming out and having to bare their souls about lurid sexual details. They prevented Sandusky`s attorney from getting up there and getting a lot of evidence he could have used at trial.
And I think they made Joe Amendola look like a horse`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He has no credibility left. He talked for a month about how he was going to really come out and take to it these victims and witnesses and he did nothing. He didn`t show up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me go back to the risk to the community, threat to the community issue.
MCLAUGHLIN: Ok.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think there`s been -- I think we can all agree -- a cavalier attitude by the defense team and Jerry Sandusky himself. Listen to Jerry Sandusky`s answer when he was asked by "The New York Times" if he was attracted to young boys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDUSKY: If I say no I`m not attracted to boys, that`s not the truth because I`m attracted to young people, boys, girls.
AMENDOLA: Yes, but not sexually. You`re attracted because you enjoy spending time.
SANDUSKY: Right. I enjoy -- that`s what I was trying to say -- I enjoy spending time with young people. I enjoy spending time with people. I mean my two favorite groups are the elderly and the young.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sandusky`s lawyer has to jump in and say "but not sexually". If there`s a good case to be made, Mark Eiglarsh, it`s this man doesn`t think he has done anything wrong, that he`s in denial about his behavior and that this is compulsion, allegedly.
Now when you have a compulsion to use heroin I don`t care what kind of restrictions you`re under, if you`re a junky you`re going to find your heroin. How can you say this person is not a danger to the community?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I wouldn`t say that and the judge could say that he`s a danger to the community in light of how many victims there are out there. I think there is some merit to what the other attorney was suggesting. The likelihood of him re-offending potentially with everybody knowing -- what person in their right mind would allow a child near him at this point. So it`s unlikely that he`s going to be re-offending.
I also agree, however that the prosecution -- I disagree with you, Jane -- the prosecution didn`t concede that much and actually got a lot more than the defense did. Any time a defense lawyer has an opportunity to cross-examine a witness they`re going to be telling the story a slightly different way each time even if they are telling truth.
That`s our trade in the criminal justice area. That is what we base reasonable doubt on -- differences in the testimony that undermines their story. And the prosecution by sparing the victims from having to testify in this instance took away one of those opportunities for the defense to use that testimony against them at trial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jessica Bennett you were there at the Sandusky hearing yesterday. From what I was told by our producers there, Jerry Sandusky`s attorney used the entire thing as a platform to talk to the media for three hours straight outside court.
BENNETT: In 18 degree cold. I mean it was nuts, you know. We showed up. We expected to hear from the victims. We wanted to hear their side of the story. And then, you know, 30 seconds in we learn that we`re all going be standing outside of the courthouse listening to Joseph Amendola, Sandusky`s lawyer stand on a platform and talk for two hours.
You know, it was a soapbox. And of course, nobody is going to leave. We all want to hear what he has to say as reporters. But he used it. I mean I`m not a legal scholar but I would say he used to it his advantage and a lot of people are angry about that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well Jessica, am I the only one who is -- is it me? Am I crazy? Should I be locked up for thinking that this guy should be locked up without bail pending trial?
BENNETT: Well, you know, I have to agree with Slade on that. I don`t think that he is a risk to the community at this point. I mean he`s got people outside his house 24/7.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jessica, Jessica, let me jump in. One of the reasons why we have prison overcrowding is that there`s so many people in prison. There are so many people in this country, more people locked up in America than any other country in the world; the size of the entire population of Macedonia. a lot of these people are locked up for victimless crimes, for drug offenses, for distributing crack cocaine. They`re doing 20, 30, 40 years behind bars separated from their children.
But this man accused of 50 counts of child sex abuse, you`re saying that you don`t think he should be locked up without bail?
BENNETT: Well, you know it`s hard to say. Everyone has a right be out on bail if they`ve got the money to pay the bail. What I`m really curious about is what`s happening at home. You know, his wife`s there. The latest grand jury report says the kid was screaming from the basement for help. His wife did nothing to respond.
You know we did a piece in "Newsweek" about wives who are complicit. What did she know and how could she not know?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Great points. Got to leave it right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, these are -- that`s my mom`s dog and these are my two and every day no matter what rain, shine, sleet, snow; I`m out walking them. That`s a great thing about having a dog, no excuses. You got to get out there and log some miles every day no matter what; a great way to get exercise.
Oh, by the way, get a companion animal but make sure to adopt, don`t shop. These are all rescues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I know that I was ordered to go once a week and I wasn`t, you know, I wasn`t missing classes. I wasn`t doing anything like that. I was working mostly in Morocco, the trip I was working with children. It wasn`t a vacation. It wasn`t some sort of joke.
And I respect you. And I`ve been taking it seriously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who could forget that? Lindsay Lohan was back in front of a judge today but the hearing was nothing like the drama you just saw. Lindsay was in court on time and she even impressed the judge with her progress on probation. The mood was downright gleeful.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE STEPHANIE SAUTNER, LOS ANGELES SUPERIOR COURT: Miss Lohan, you have actually done the work and done it not only on time but early. You`re ordered to appear here on January 17th at 10:00 a.m. on both cases.
SHAWN CHAPMAN HOLLEY: One question. If she has completed everything must she still appear before the court?
SAUTNER: Yes.
HOLLEY: All right. We look forward to seeing you.
SAUTNER: Because if I say no, she won`t complete everything. I`m just saying.
HOLLEY: She will.
SAUTNER: Well, I would like to believe she would. But I think she likes to come here and see me. I think that`s a motivation for her -- just kidding. I know she doesn`t like to come here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wow. They were just having a good old time. There was laughter. It was like a cocktail party.
Today`s hearing may be the first time Lindsay was spared a tongue lashing from the judge but if you think Lindsay`s week was drama-free entirely, get real.
This is Lindsay Lohan we`re talking about here. She barely made it back to the mainland in time for court following a Hawaiian vacation. While at a party in Hawaii she says her purse was stolen and along with it $10,000 in cash that was in her purse, her ID, passport and probation documents.
Lindsay apparently got it all back minus the $10,000 in cash. She didn`t make it back from Hawaii however, in time to take "The Ellen Show", which was her one and only scheduled appearance to promote her new "Playboy" issue. And about those nude pics well, some of it was leaked on time.
So yes, we still have drama and chaos right on Lindsay`s heels.
Straight out to CNN entertainment correspondent, Kareen Wynter; Kareen, you were there in court today. Was it as lovey-dovey, as chummy, as happy and joyful an experience as it seemed?
KAREEN WYNTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: It was. And you know, it was so surreal, I didn`t know what to do with all that love. The paparazzi were around, you know, the press. I thought we were just going to start kissing, making out, hugging each other.
It was a little insane. And what was more insane was just watching, you know, the earlier video. I don`t know when that happened. She`s been in court for so many times, Jane but with her crying. There was no crying today in court.
You know, you saw Shawn Chapman Holley, her attorney laughing. Lindsay was laughing. And the Judge Sautner, what was up with that? She was laughing, cracking jokes saying "I`m just kidding."
Was this a hearing? Is this Lindsay Lohan that we`re talking about? But the judge, of course, extremely pleased. Why? Because this young lady is finally on track. This was a judge who was criticized so heavily for giving Lohan chance after chance after chance. And she kind of looked like a fool because people were wondering throw her in jail, throw away the key. What`s up?
But this seems to be working in Lohan`s favor; these baby steps and complying with her community service, Jane. So, way to go Lindsay; let`s see how long this continues, right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Listen, we wish her the best. We want her to straighten up.
WYNTER: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Remember the last time? Let`s compare (INAUDIBLE) the last time Lindsay was before Judge Stephanie Sautner, it was a very different story. Here`s what the judge told her the last time around.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAUTNER: You`re to serve 30 days in the county jail now. You`re to surrender within one week; I understand that you have some work lined up. You are to surrender by November 9th in person to the CRDF, that`s the women`s jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Alexis Tereszcuk, RadarOnline, what has changed? What`s different about Lindsay?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE: Lindsay it seems that she has all of her ducks in the row. What the judge was talking about, the work she had lined up that was her nude "Playboy" shoot. She did the cover. She channeled Marilyn Monroe. A lot of people have seen it because it got a leaked a little bit early. And she made almost a million dollars for this.
She goes almost every day when she`s in the country for her community service. She`s still at the morgue. I think she`s even cleaning toilets still. And you know what they say -- she`s doing a great job.
Then she took a little vacation to Hawaii with her sister. It was her sister`s birthday -- again, totally allowed to do that. The probation officer said fine you`re allowed to go.
Lindsay is doing everything right probably for the first time in her life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Lindsay was scheduled to tape "The Ellen Show" yesterday to promote her big "Playboy" issue. But a spokesperson says she missed her flight back from Hawaii and we`ll show you Lindsay on "Ellen" in 2009. Lindsay`s interview on Ellen was the only planned appearance to promote her "Playboy" shoot.
Noah Levy, senior news writer, "In Touch Weekly", do you think subconsciously she just didn`t want to emphasize the nude photo shoot?
NOAH LEVY, SENIOR NEWS WRITER, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": I think there was definitely some hesitation on Lindsay`s part to be out in the public. She hates the scrutiny. She`s scared about people judging her. And I think she just wanted to stay home and wait for the court appearance.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, I want to get a little bit more into the whole nude photo shoot, and why she might be having some second thoughts about it. Is the fog lifting? More in a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLLEY: We want to comply. Miss Lohan wishes to comply. We`re just hoping that instead of a SCRAM bracelet she can submit to when drug and alcohol testing randomly or in whatever manner the court sets forth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was back in 2010. You see Lindsay looked a lot puffier there. She looked much better I think today. But what happened to that drug and alcohol testing issue? Did that go away?
I want to throw that out to Alexis Tereszcuk.
TERESZCUK: It did go away, Jane. She has complied with everything. It`s now just the community service. She doesn`t have to be drug or alcohol tested at all anymore.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the reason I asked is that Lindsay claims she went to a party in Hawaii and she had her cash-loaded purse stolen out of her locked car. She said her purse had $10,000 in cash in it along with a passport and various other things.
Here`s my question Noah Levy: who walks around with $10,000 in cash? Does that sound a little odd to you, maybe even suspicious?
LEVY: Yes. Jane, I`m so happy you brought this up. This sounds very shady. Someone who is in recovery is not going to be walking around in another state or another country with $10,000 in cash. Then all of a sudden it`s stolen. Why or how it`s stolen we don`t know but it sounds suspicious.
And friends close to Lindsay are definitely worried that she`s not taking sobriety seriously enough for the long term.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t know. I`m a recovering alcoholic with 16 years of sobriety, and one thing I know is when people drink they get drunk you can tell right away. They have alcohol breath, they slur their words. Other substances you don`t know, really, without testing. You really can`t tell.
So I have no idea. I hope she`s sober. She looks like she`s behaving more in a more sober fashion. She`s showing up on time. She`s doing her probation. So I hope so.
"Playboy" had planned to debut Lindsay`s nude photo spread as we mentioned on tomorrow`s "Ellen" show. And now that plan apparently out the window because a Russian hacker flooded the Internet with the racy pictures already. This is arguably "Playboy`s" most talked about issue of the year and it`s very odd that it gets hacked by some Russian dude on the Internet.
I have to wonder: A, is this a publicity stunt or B on the entire other side of this, Kareen, do you think that perhaps Lindsay is coming out of her fog as she gets sober, as she starts to have her life come in to sharp focus and do that everything she`s supposed to, she`s starting to have second thoughts about having posed naked?
WYNTER: Absolutely not. You know someone asked me earlier, Jane, what has she done lately? What is she at least attached. This is a very high-profile actress still in Hollywood. She has a designer Chanel bag. She wears her Louboutin. She`s always decked from head to toe. Lord knows, she gets her hair done every single week here in Los Angeles which I don`t even want to mention or talk about what the price tag is that goes with that.
So she still needs the money to support this lifestyle and when you don`t have all of those offers coming in and the paychecks are dwindling you`re going to jump at every opportunity. Lindsay loves the attention.
Sure she may not want to be on "Ellen" talking about her pictorial spread, which by the way is a double issue, did we mention that. Not one, it`s a double issue. So she is really, really basking in the spotlight with this, not having to say anything but still her face out there, getting all the money in and really continuing the lifestyle that she loves, I believe, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we got to show the hair because you`re saying she spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars every week on her hair.
WYNTER: All the time. There are always pictures of her. She`s getting extensions in.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Check out that hair. Check out that hair.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Quick round robin on Lindsay Lohan starting with Alexis Tereszcuk.
TERESZCUK: I think that Lindsay Lohan is trying to get all of her ducks in a row. But I don`t know that it`s going to work. You know, she was out partying super late at a concert last night. She looked like she was having a really good time. Maybe she hasn`t quite slept that much; definitely didn`t have time for her hair. I don`t think the old Lindsay is too far below the surface.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Noah.
LEVY: Well, you know, Lindsay definitely hit a high note today but she is a frequent offender of legal hiccups. So tomorrow is another story, we`ll have to wait and see how that unfolds.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Kareen, ten seconds.
WYNTER: Well, you know, Lohan, sure. Is she`s a shining example for everyone out there? No. But we`re talking about baby steps. So let`s just praise the work that she`s done so far and hope it lasts because it probably won`t, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I say, Lindsay, take it one day at a time. Just get through today. Don`t think about the rest of your life. I really wish you the best. I hope you`re sober and I hope you go on to great success.
END
