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Nancy Grace
Jodi Arias Changes Defense in Murder Trial
Aired December 29, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news out of Arizona. A successful entrepreneur and motivational speaker goes missing. Friends go to his luxury five-bedroom home to find his hybrid still parked in the garage. His wallet, his laptop, his cell phone -- they were all in the home office! But there`s no sign of 30-year-old Travis Alexander until a trail of blood leads his friends to the master bathroom, where Travis is found slumped on the shower floor. He`s dead. The prime suspect, his jilted lover.
In a stunning twist, after Travis is found shot in the face, with 27 stab wounds and a slit throat, the ex-girlfriend -- she changes her story, now insisting, I had to kill him in self-defense.
Tonight, new jailhouse tapes as we hear from Jodi Arias in her own words behind bars, and the shocking 911 call. We have the audiotapes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom! We hadn`t heard from him for a while.
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: I really don`t remember the day at all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We think he`s dead. His roommates just went in there and said there`s lots of blood!
ARIAS: I didn`t hurt Travis.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Viciously murdered...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s dead. He`s in his bedroom...
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in the shower.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stabbed 27 times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
ARIAS: I have no idea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His throat slit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was the relationship ever violent?
ARIAS: Definitely (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has an ex-girlfriend that`s been bothering him and following him and slashing tires and things like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi, were you ever afraid of Travis?
ARIAS: I pass on that question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His roommate went in. There`s blood in his bedroom, behind the door. And then he said it`s all over. And then they went into the bathroom and he`s in his shower.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Explain that your DNA was found in (INAUDIBLE)
ARIAS: The explanation for that will come out soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us.
A successful entrepreneur and motivational speaker with his whole life before him -- he was found shot in the face, with 27 stab wounds and a slit throat, inside his luxury five-bedroom home. The prime suspect, his jilted lover. And tonight, she changes her story, now insisting, I had to do it in self-defense.
For the latest, let`s go out to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter with Radaronline. All right, Alexis, we are on the eve of trial in this case, and now suddenly, the defense has changed. What is the new defense that Jodi Arias is asserting?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Well, Jodi is actually saying it was self-defense, that she had to kill him. This is a horrific crime. The violence that was visited upon this man -- he was stabbed 27 times. His throat was slit, but it was slit from ear to ear and he was shot in the head.
And she lied repeatedly to the police. She first claimed she wasn`t at the scene. Then she said that two intruders came in, a man and woman in disguise and they killed him. And then she finally admitted she did it. But now she`s saying it`s self-defense. She`s facing the death penalty if she`s convicted of murdering him.
CASAREZ: All right. So David Lohr, senior crime reporter of the HuffingtonPost, joining us tonight, so this new defense is self-defense, I had to do it, I was in imminent fear of death and serious bodily injury from Travis Alexander, someone that I cared so much about, and I had to kill him.
What was the first defense? And she said it herself in an interview, right?
DAVID LOHR, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: Well, in the very beginning, when she was first questioned by police, she said, Well, I wasn`t even there. I hadn`t seen him for several months. Then once they were able to place her at the scene, you know, using DNA and other evidence, she says, Well, yes, I was there, but there were these two intruders that barged in. It was a home invasion. They shot him. They went to shoot me, but the gun misfired, so I was able to get up and run away.
Well, now she`s changed her story again, this time saying that he was supposedly abusive to her. When,she was there, she dropped his camera, he became enraged, and then she had to kill him in self-defense, is what she`s claiming now.
CASAREZ: And David Lohr, according to this first defense, the masked intruders that came, the home invasion -- she didn`t tell anybody afterwards, nobody, because she was scared, right?
To Joe Gomez, news director, KTRH radio joining us tonight out of Houston on a very serious note because this is a death penalty state. The state of Arizona is seeking death. What was the condition of the body of Travis Alexander when it was found?
JOE GOMEZ, KTRH: It was horrifically disfigured, Jean. My goodness. And the throat was slit from ear to ear, 27 -- 27 stab wounds on this man`s body, including -- including, Jean, a stab wound directly into his heart and a shot to the face! Presumably, he must have been shot (ph) in the face -- he survived the shot to the face, and then he was stabbed 27 times, Jean, blood all over the bedroom, blood all over the bathroom. Of course, he discovered on the floor of the shower.
CASAREZ: Horrific, horrific crime. To Andrew Scott, former chief of police, Boca Raton, Florida, now president of AJS Consulting. You know, when you look at the affirmative defense of self-defense, the defendant is admitting that she did it. She`s admitting that she stabbed him 27 times, admitting -- slit his throat.
But you know what, Andrew? Let`s say it what it is. She attempted to decapitate him. That`s what she attempted to do. She attempted to assassinate him with one bullet to the head, but it didn`t work. This defense isn`t going to work.
ANDREW SCOTT, FMR. CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON: No, absolutely not. The physical evidence is too tell-taling (ph), and it`s totally opposite of what she`s claiming has occurred. And when you have multiple stab wounds, a slit throat and then a gunshot to the head, clearly, this was not an issue of defense. It was an aggressive stance taken by the individual. And clearly, the self-defense rule is going to be a hard type of defense they`re going to have to contend with. I don`t believe it was.
CASAREZ: And to Peter Odom, defense attorney joining us out of Washington, D.C., let`s look at self-defense because it`s very much in the law, and many times -- and the defense is asserting that she was in fear for her life in this circumstance.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. Remember, Jean, that the defendant doesn`t have to prove that she acted in self-defense. The state has to prove that she didn`t.
CASAREZ: But isn`t...
ODOM: So I disagree that it`s going to be difficult for her to prove anything. The state has to prove she didn`t act in self-defense.
CASAREZ: But isn`t the defense going to have to put on some evidence of domestic abuse if they say that that -- there was a history of domestic abuse?
ODOM: They will. They`ll have to put on some evidence that the defendant acted in self-defense, but it doesn`t have to be much to get the instruction. Remember, she doesn`t have to convince 12 jurors that she acted in self-defense. She only has to demonstrate reasonable doubt in one juror`s mind.
CASAREZ: Eleanor Odom, I want your thoughts on this because self- defense is obviously the state of mind of Jodi Arias, that she believed that she was in imminent fear of death or serious bodily injury, but it`s also based on a reasonable person standard, that a reasonable person in the same situation would stab somebody 27 times, try to decapitate them and try to assassinate them?
ELEANOR ODOM, NATIONAL DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ASSOC.: I know. I don`t see this claim of self-defense going anywhere, Jean. I just can`t even believe Peter would suggest that.
What`s interesting to me, Jean, is look at her choices. She chose every step of the way what she was going to do. She chose to go to his house. She chose to shoot him. She chose to stab him once, twice, three times. I mean, how many stabs does it take before it becomes self-defense? So that is ludicrous -- 27 stab wounds, almost decapitated, that ain`t self-defense.
CASAREZ: And you just happen to have a gun and a knife on you just in case, right? Now, I want to ask David Lohr, senior crime reporter from the HuffingtonPost, was the gun and the knife ever located at all?
LOHR: No, they haven`t found either of the items. And to add what she was just saying, you also have to keep in mind she drove 400 miles to go to his house. So she wasn`t in any imminent danger. She put herself in that situation.
CASAREZ: And Jodi Arias is innocent until proven guilty. And in a case like this, many times you don`t know what happened in that bedroom because one person is dead, the other person may not want to talk about it, or at least not the truth. So you look at the blood pattern evidence. You look at the scene.
But in this case, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter of Radaronline, there was what many are calling a smoking gun in that bedroom. It was called a camera. Tell us about that.
TERESZCUK: It was her camera, and in fact, it had pictures of the two of them together before he died. They were pictures taken in the shower. She even remarked that she loved these pictures because the water looked so good on his body. But there were also pictures after his death.
She tried to hide this camera. It was found in the washing machine in his house. A lot of photos were deleted, but police were able to recover these photos. And this showed with a timestamp, basically, when he was alive and then when he died.
CASAREZ: And it -- did it show domestic abuse at all, or did it show them practically engaged in sexual relations?
TERESZCUK: No, there was no domestic abuse. It was -- they were very sexy pictures, especially the ones in the shower where they were naked.
CASAREZ: All right. I want to go to Kathy in Kansas. Hi, Kathy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. Thank you for joining us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I just don`t understand at all how she could do this defense thing, either. If you stabbed somebody even five, six times, it would stop that person from attacking you, you would think. And I -- you know (INAUDIBLE) do this. Like, I just don`t under -- I don`t understand how this is even going to work out for her, or how it even got in that situation where her lawyer would even think about saying that, you know?
CASAREZ: Well, you know, it`s very interesting, to say the least. And Kathy, I want to tell you that this is going to be a live trial on "In Session." "In Session" will broadcast this trial gavel to gavel. We believe it will begin in February.
We`ll be right back with more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I wouldn`t (INAUDIBLE) I would say -- I don`t know. I think that it -- that when more evidence comes out, it`ll be very telling that it was a two-way street. And Travis was a wonderful person, but he was also very persuasive and he was hard to say no to. And it was hard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: What`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander?
ARIAS: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Motivational speaker Travis Alexander was viciously murdered at his Mesa home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s dead. He`s in his bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His neck had been slashed from ear to ear, stabbed 27 times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has an ex-girlfriend that`s been bothering him and following him and slashing tires and things like that.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: One night, all of his tires were slashed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Talking him and really getting in his way of dating other girls.
ARIAS: Not so much jealousy, maybe a sense of insecurity. But that`s just me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arias claimed to have zero experience with weapons.
ARIAS: I did own a gun. It was a 9 millimeter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And shot in the face links Jodi Arias to the murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was the relationship ever violent?
ARIAS: Pass on that question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. Now, I know what you`re wondering. You want to know why is Jodi Arias singing "O Holy Night." Well, they had a talent contest in the Maricopa County jail. She sang, "O Holy Night." She won the whole contest. That`s right, she won it and she got a turkey and the whole nine yards.
Back to the case. I want to go to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter for Radaronline. This is the death penalty case. The state of Arizona is seeking death against a young woman, which is extremely rare.
When Jodi Arias was arrested, Alexis Tereszcuk, she had a big issue, didn`t she, before she went with authorities. What did she want to do?
TERESZCUK: She wanted to actually reach out to her family and talk with them, from what I remember.
CASAREZ: And she wanted to put on her make-up. She said, I`ve got to get my purse, I want to put my make-up on before I go with you. So that set the stage for numerous interviews in this case.
And to Joe Gomez, new director from KTRH radio. Go through with us. How many interviews has she done? And initially, she said she wasn`t even there, she wasn`t even at the home, right?
GOMEZ: Well, that`s right. That`s right, Jean. She`s gone through multiple interviews. I mean, initially, she said that she hadn`t even seen her ex-boyfriend in some months. And then she claimed that burglars -- intruders somehow came into the home and that they were -- you know attack Travis and that she was so scared that she just got in her car and left them, which is bizarre in itself! Why would she leave her boyfriend there, her ex-boyfriend there, if he was being attacked? That doesn`t make any sense. Then she finally (INAUDIBLE) it`s self-defense. But Jane -- Jean, 27 stab wounds, self-defense? Come on!
CASAREZ: And "In Session" got that from legal documents the defense has asserted in regard to the self-defense aspect. So that`s where it`s coming from. It is not rumor or innuendo.
I want to go to David Lohr, though, senior crime reporter for HuffingtonPost. Paint the picture of that room for us. Finally, after a number of days, they got into that room. And what did they see?
LOHR: That`s correct. His friends -- they hadn`t heard from him in several days. His roommates assumed he was on a trip to Mexico he had planned. When they went to check on him, the bedroom door was locked. They found a key. They went inside. They said there was blood everywhere. There was blood on the floor. There was blood on the walls. He was slumped over inside the shower. He had been dead for four or five days. Decomposition was already setting in.
One interesting thing is it appeared as though his body had been washed off, like the killer took the time to clean his body up. But what really cinched it and pointed at Jodi was a bloody handprint they found on the wall that they were able to match to her print. So that was when she came up with her second story.
CASAREZ: To Dr. Barry Friedberg, physician and author, "Getting Over Going Under," joining us from Los Angeles. Does the defense have -- well, it`s self-defense, but she -- it is believed that she may have dragged his body into the shower to wash it off because the bedding and clothes were in the washing machine. So how does someone with her stature -- because she`s rather small -- have the strength to drag a dead body back into the shower to wash it off?
DR. BARRY FRIEDBERG, PHYSICIAN: Well, it`s entirely possible that she used the shower curtain as a sledge and put the body on the shower curtain and dragged the shower curtain in. We`ve seen that in a number of crime stories on TV.
CASAREZ: And that`s also done in hunting, when you hunt a deer in a ravine or something, to -- it`s a sled, is what they term it in hunting. I want to ask you one other question. The medical examiner can determine if all those knife wounds came ante-mortem or post-mortem because if it`s found some of the stabbings came after death, that`s not self-defense.
FRIEDBERG: Precisely. As we`ve seen on the crime shows, ante-mortem stab wounds usually don`t have any blood with them, and the fact that there was blood all over the place strongly suggest that he was stabbed while he was still alive and his heart was still pumping.
CASAREZ: There were defensive wounds found on Travis Alexander`s body. What does that tell you as a medical examiner?
FRIEDBERG: Well, it means he was trying to fight off an attack. And this was clearly an attack filled with rage.
CASAREZ: Yes, it was. Yes, it was. To Eleanor Odom, senior attorney with the National District Attorneys Association, can prosecutors bring in all the different theories? Because Jodi Arias has done many, many interviews. They can bring that out in their case, right?
ELEANOR ODOM: Oh, yes, they can bring anything she says to the police or anyone else, quite frankly, out in the case. Of course, any statements she made to police would have to go through a Jackson-Denno (ph) hearing to make sure that the statement was given voluntarily. But yes, they can use it. And that`s what`s so great, Jean, to just compare all the three stories to talk about how she is a liar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, the last weekend, his stalker -- he told her he never wanted to see her again, had a big confrontation. And that`s all we know. That`s all I know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom! And we hadn`t heard from him for a while. We think he`s dead. His roommate just went in there and said there`s lots of blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s dead. He`s in his bedroom...
911 OPERATOR: OK...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in the shower.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His ex-girlfriend that`s been bothering him and following him and slashing tires and things like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His roommate went in. There`s blood in his bedroom, behind the door. And then he said it`s all over. And then they went in the bathroom, and he`s in his shower.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. I want to go out to Pam in Pennsylvania. Hi, Pam.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. Thank you for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. My question is, where did they actually arrest her? Was she home, or was she still in that general area?
CASAREZ: Well, that`s a good question. That brings us to the timeline because, remember, she wanted to put her make-up on before they took her, after they arrested her.
To Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter from Radaronline, go through that timeline with us of when his body was found, when it was believed he was killed, and when she was arrested.
TERESZCUK: So it was believed that he was killed, and then five days later is when his roommates found him. They`d been trying to text him and call him and were unsuccessful reaching him, friends, as well. It`s a really large house, and he traveled very frequently. So they didn`t expect for him to there, which is why -- I mean, you would think in a house, you would be able to see the blood or something. But it`s a huge house and it was contained -- the crime scene was contained in the bedroom.
So she actually left and went on a work conference. Just days later, she showed up at this conference. She had cuts on her hands and she looked like she had been in a fight, as well, which really, at the time didn`t raise suspicion. She said she was a bartender. She lied and said she was a bartender and that she was always cutting her hands. But in retrospect, it was a clear indication that she had been in an altercation.
And then it was a few -- about I believe 10 days later when all the evidence, including the handprint, was connected with her and she was arrested.
CASAREZ: You know, Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist joining us tonight from New York, Travis Alexander -- I want everybody to know a little bit about this self-made man. He was an entrepreneur. He was a motivational speaker. But he also was a Mormon missionary and he had gone on missions for the Mormon church, extremely religious person.
And he and Jodi had met. They had had a little bit of a relationship, but obviously, she wasn`t the right girl for him because he started dating other women, and that`s where the triangle comes in.
But here`s what I want to ask you, Patricia Saunders. She went to the memorial service. Jodi Arias went to the memorial service for Travis Alexander, and numerous people said she was smiling at that service.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Chilling, isn`t it, Jean? The narcissistic pathology is a failure of empathy, and psychopaths have a failure of conscience. She`s got them both. Her affect is flat. She`s got a coy smile in all of her interviews. This is not a normal person. I do believe she`s a psychopath.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE DISPATCHER: Hold on just a moment. OK, you`re a good friend of Travis`, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I am. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE DISPATCHER: OK. Has he been depressed at all, thinking about committing suicide or anything like that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think he`s been thinking of committing suicide. He`s been really depressed because he broke up with this girl and he was upset on that but I don`t think he would committee suicide over that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE DISPATCHER: has he been threaten by anyone recently?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he has. He has an ex-girl friend that`s been bothering him and following him and slashing tires and things like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE DISPATCHER: And do you know the ex-girl friend`s name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you remember? What`s his ex-girl friend`s name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE DISPATCHER: And do you know if he`s ever reported it to the police?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her name is Jodi. I don`t know if she`s ever reported it. Hold on. Ask her if he`s ever reported Jodi to the police, if Travis did. No, he hasn`t reported anything about Jodi`s behavior.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the TruTV Network, in for Nancy Grace. That was the 911 call just released that you are listening to. I want to go out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler joining us tonight from Washington, D.C. Pat, what are your thoughts on this case and new defense of self-defense?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, the new defense is where they have to go. Because originally, her defense was going to be she wasn`t there. And then clearly, when they found that hand print, that kind went out the window. And what psycho paths tends to do and I agree with the psychologist that this is a psycho path, she`s in the chair talking to the police. She gives her first story and it doesn`t wash. They say, hey week got your hand print, crap, that`s not going to work. I`ll move to my next story. That will be more believable. Ok, I was there and there are other people there attacking me. And eventually they find the camera, they say that doesn`t not going to work.
OK, now they got me. S now, they know I committed the crime, what can I do g to now? Now, it`s going to be self-defense. I think by the time it gets to court, we`re also going to see she`s in some kind of fugue state. She lost her mind because of all the abuse she suffered, she went into a fugue state and all the rage from all those years came out. I mean, it might work with a jury because we`ve seen it work with a jury before.
CASAREZ: Well then, to Eleanor Odom, they have got to put on some evidence of domestic abuse and that means in my mind Jodi Arias has to take the stand.
ELEANOR ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. Because I can bet you anything, Jean, there`s nobody else who saw evidence of domestic abuse. So, it almost forces her to the stand, if that`s defense she`s going to choose, which of course in my viewpoint it`s ludicrous. And as a prosecutor I say bring it on because would I love to cross-examine her.
CASAREZ: And I think she will want to take the stand with all the interviews she`s done.
To Andrew Scott, former police chief of Boca Raton, Florida. Why don`t we look at the time line for a second because this camera is not only a smoking gun but in a sense it could help the defense because, first of all, there are pictures. They were together at that home. There are pictures of Jodi Arias posing nude on the bed and it`s marked June 4th, which is the day it is believed he was murdered.
It also shows Travis Alexander in the shower, nude. But then it also shows Travis Alexander dead at 5:30 p.m. There`s a picture taken of an alive Travis Alexander. At 5:32 begin some pictures of a deceased Travis Alexander. In two minutes how do you do what she is now admitting that she`s done, stabbing 25, tried to decapitate and tried to assassinate?
ANDREW SCOTT, FORMER POLICE CHIEF, BOCA RATON FLORIDA: Clearly her thinking and her thought processes are clearly off the charts. And the fact that she`s allowed these photographs to occur prior to the incident and then takes a photograph of the decedent after the incident boxes her in relative to the timeline as to when this occurred and where she was. The other thing is, is that she is not coherent enough to understand that her actions versus what she`s saying are so mismatched and she has no trouble with espousing these types of false stories in order to cover what she`s covering. I think the camera and the pictures are damning evidence.
CASAREZ: They are damning. And they are the smoking gun prosecutors are going to say. To Jason in Canada, Hi, Jason.
JASON, CALLER, CANADA: Hey, Jean, how are you?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. Thank you so much for calling.
JASON: I just have one quick question. Happy holidays from Canada.
CASAREZ: Thank you so much.
JASON: And my question is was she on drugs at the time?
CASAREZ: Was she on drugs at the time? To David Lohr, senior crime reporter for "Huffington Post," has there been any issue? Was she tested after arrested? Although she wasn`t arrested until July, so a month and a half later. But any word on that at all?
DAVID LOHR, SENIOR CRIME REPORTER, HUFFINGTON POST: Yes. There`s nothing came out regard anything drug or alcohol use or anything on her part.
CASAREZ: Alright, so none of that. So, that is helpful for the prosecution to show that she had intent to do what she did and, by the way, this is not only a depth case, a premeditated murder but they are also going for the felony murder theory based on burglary, the intent to commit a crime of felony within the dwelling house of Travis Alexander.
To Patricia Saunders, what kind of person would, number one, do so many interviews with so many media outlets, change the story but take someone that you cared about and absolutely take the reputation and just rip it apart by saying that there was domestic abuse and she was trying to save her own life?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, there was real little attachment to Travis. And the failure of judgment, the failure of conscience and empathy, it all about her. You know, the chilling contrast between her singing is haunting, Christmas song, and blandly talking about his murder.
This wasn`t an assassination, Jean. This was an attempt to annihilate this man because in her experience he rejected her. The fact that she took pictures of his dead body suggests to me that it was a trophy and this is something only psychopaths do. So, she may relive maybe the sexual pleasure of those sexy photos and the fact that she got him.
CASAREZ: I want to go to Andrew Scott, former chief of police. You have been at many crime scenes, you have worked many murders. Why does somebody wash the clothes? Why do they take the clothes to the washing machine? Because obviously the deceased didn`t do that. Doesn`t that absolutely incriminate them from almost the give beginning?
SCOTT: Absolutely. And it show as premeditation relative to trying to either destroy or get rid of some evidence, could be fiber evidence or could be some blood evidence that she thinks was on the clothing and subsequently throws it into the washing machine to get it clean. And so, she`s not only involved in an act of passion of getting -- of killing this individual but she`s consciously thinking of how she can cover it up. And obviously she was not very good at it.
CASAREZ: To Peter Odom, defense attorney, as the defense attorney if you are representing Jodi Arias, it`s all about reasonable doubt, isn`t it?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It certainly is and I`ll tell you there`s reasonable doubt already in this case about self-defense. You know Jean, it`s something that the prosecutors and police officers are emphasizing the bloody hand print that was found in the hallway had Jodi`s blood on it. She was wounded in this attack. That`s probably enough for the defense to get the self-defense instruction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were making a sincere effort to grow apart and to be apart and to move on but nonetheless he did remain a close friend of mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you explain that your DNA was found at the murder scene?
JODI ARIAS, SUSPECT IN TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S DEATH: Well, I spent a lot of time at his house. But because it`s more than just that kind of DNA, there is an explanation for all of that and that will all be made known very soon. Again, it doesn`t prove that I committed a murder and I didn`t commit a murder. I didn`t hurt Travis. I would never hurt Travis. I would never harm him physically. I may have hurt him emotionally and I`ll always regret that but, you know, the explanation for that will all come out soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Now that is one of the many interviews that Jodi Arias has done. And it sounds like within that interview that was theory number one, that she was not at the home when it all happened, when Travis Alexander was stabbed 27 times, was attempted to decapitate his head by now Jodi Arias is admitting that.
I want to go to Joe Gomez, joining us from Houston, Texas tonight. Joe, there was an obsessive nature about Jodi Arias that is overwhelming to hear about. This is going to be part of the prosecution`s case. Tell everybody about what she did when she couldn`t have him as her own.
JOE GOMEZ, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, KTRH, COVERING STORY (via telephone): That`s right, Jean. She was certainly very obsessive and very, very jealous. The friends of Travis were saying Jodi would text every girl that came into Travis`s life. She would text them, sending them crazy e-mails. You know, call them horrible names and like you know, shut and things like that, just awful things.
Then most important he died, she is starting to apparently splashing Travis`s tires. He was at one location, his tires were slashed. Next day he fixed his tires and guess what happen next, she apparently slashed them again.
So, there`s this obssessiveness that Jodi apparently had with Travis. And what`s also interesting there, Jean, is that Travis was apparently supposed to go on a trip to Mexico, a trip to Cancun shortly before he died with another woman. So, was that what sent Jodi over the edge? Very serious.
CASAREZ: That`s right. And to Pat Brown, criminal profiler, of course prosecutors don`t have to show motive at all. But the very next day Travis Alexander was set to go to Mexico with a young woman that he had started dating, it was a trip they`d planned for a long time. I think that will come into the trial, prosecutors will look at that as a motive, don`t you think?
BROWN: Well, her motive is to win. I mean, she wants all the attention and she picked this man and he gave her attention and then he had the indecency to say she wasn`t worthy of his attention anymore. And that is an ego crusher for a person who is a psychopath or has severe narcissistic personality disorder.
So, she was going to show him, you cannot do that to me. So, by killing him, she wins. She doesn`t have to worry about him giving her attention anymore because he can`t and he is not going to give to some other woman. And now, she`s getting all the attention in the world. She can sing and win her contest at the jail and she`ll get her free Jodi Arias fan club that, will be coming up soon. I mean, she is going to enjoy her stay in prison. I`m sure she`ll get convicted but she`s not going to suffer the way people think because she loves attention and that`s what she`s about.
CASAREZ: And you know, after Casey Anthony, you don`t know what a jury is going to do. Peter Odom, you do not know what a jury is going to render as a verdict at the end of a trial. You said something that was so, so smart, Peter Odom. You`re right, that hand print in blood of Jody Arias had Jodi`s blood as well as Travis Alexander`s blood. So with her blood on that wall, it was violent. It was an amazing struggle and the defense may use that to try to get this domestic abuse, domestic violence theory to the jury.
But here`s what I want to ask you. The defense has filed a brand new motion. They do not want Travis Alexander referred to as a victim. Why? Because Jodi Arias is a victim. Are they going to win that?
PETER ODOM: No. But, I mean, we`ve been filing these motions for 20 years as defense attorneys to try and get the judge to preclude the state from referring to someone as a victim until it`s actually been proven that they are a victim. That is actually after the evidence has been proven.
In this case of course Jodi is going to be claiming that she`s a victim so she doesn`t want the boyfriend to be referred to as a victim. But the judge is probably going to deny the motion and let the jury give whatever weight it deems to the victim. That`s normally what`s done.
CASAREZ: To Eleanor Odom, if you were prosecuting this case, in your opening statement would what would be the most impact you believe you could give? What aspect of this case do you think is most important?
ELEANOR ODOM: I think the planning aspect, Jean. I do mentioned before choices. But the planning that went into it, the fact that she went there with two weapons, the fact that she had to go a long distance to get to the home, the fact that she put him in the tub. All of those things, that she took pictures. And just the cold disregard for human life, Jean. This is a death penalty case. I said it from the very beginning and it is clear to me she certainly deserves to die for these crimes.
CASAREZ: You know to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter from Radar Online. They didn`t live in the same city. Tell everybody how they met and how they began their relatively short dating experience.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, SENIOR REPORTER, RADAR ONLINE: They met at a work conference. They both were in the same business and there was a spark that she has said and he felt it, too. They started texting and e-mailing but they lived 400 miles apart so they actually started meeting at a friend of his house that was in between for both of them. They would spend a lot of weekend there is.
But her behavior while she was there on the weekends, caused so much alarm with this couple, his friends, that they sat him down one night and said you`ve got to stop seeing her. We are very concerned about here. They said she was very sexually inappropriate with him in front of them and that many things that she did really raised a red flag with them.
So, they talked to him for about two and a half hours they said and they really felt they had finally convinced them and they real sized Jodi was standing outside the room eavesdropping the entire time, just another warning signs. So they would meet here at this couple`s home. But this couple did not like her.
CASAREZ: To Joe Gomez. Some of these jailhouse interviews she has given or -- are very telling. What do you think some the highlights are?
GOMEZ: Well, I think what`s really fascinating with all the jailhouse interviews and the attention Jodi has been getting it seems to be she`s laughing up all this attention. I mean, the fact that she reaches out to the media so much. It really stands out for me is her singing "oh holy night" and winning that contest in jail. I mean, that just blows my mind. And the fact that the media covered it so much. I mean, it really is - it has parallels to the Casey Anthony case.
CASAREZ: To Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist joining us out of New York, this is a case we could talk about for hours. But, when you look at somebody like and - I mean, will she even mind being convicted? Won`t it be part of the celebrity status she seeks?
SAUNDERS: I think so. In a sentence, I think she`s a dumb Casey Anthony. At least Casey`s lies had a little more internal consistency than Jodi.
CASAREZ: But how can you take someone like Travis Alexander, who led a good life. He started out with a hard life, his parents were addicted to methamphetamine. His grandparents took him in, they raised him in the Mormon church. He was a devout Mormon. How do you take someone like that and trash their reputation in a trial by saying there was domestic abuse and that`s the last memory people have of him?
SAUNDERS: People who walk among us, Jean, psychopaths are evil people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE DISPATCHER: OK, now I need to let the officers know what they`re walking in to so can you tell me where the is coming from?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. I saw him curled up and that he`s curled up in the shower and that`s all I saw.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you want to speak out?
ARIAS: I kind of feel like since I`ve been incarcerated, it`s almost like there`s been a proverbial duct tape over my mouth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know why she`s talking, though. People should never talk. These defendants should never talk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s changed her story three times. How big of a problem will that be for Jodie Arias?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She either has to go with justification. That`s either something went horrifically long, and as a result --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
I`m Jean Casarez in for Nancy Grace. I want to go to David Lohr because you know, David, in the Casey Anthony case, we had jailhouse letters that Casey wrote. And Casey actually wrote those letters. They became a focal point for the defense in the case.
In this case, Jodi Arias claimed that she had letters that were written by Travis Alexander. The judge threw them out. But what did those letters say?
LOHR: You know, that`s correct. For the past year, she`s been trying to get these letters admitted into evidence. What`s interesting to note is she only had electronic copies of them for some reason. But the letters, allegedly, mentioned that he was into pedophilia. They were supposed to suggest that he was abusive to her and things of that nature. However, the prosecution, they got copies, electronic copies of the letter. They have their own experts look at them and they found out they were forgeries. So, the judge just recently in August said no, you can admit these as evidence.
CASAREZ: You know, Peter Odom, I think one of the strongest things that the defense has going for it, is with the numerous interviews that she has done, she has refused to answer the question, was there any abuse in your household with Travis? Was there anything -- she won`t answer the question.
PETER ODOM: Well --
CASAREZ: Why not say, yes! Why not say, yes, he abused me!
W PETER ODOM: who knows? Who knows why. I mean, we can`t get inside her mind, but we do know this. There won`t be that contradictory statement that there wasn`t abuse left to face her at trial. So she did one thing smart.
CASAREZ: But on the other hand, Eleanor Odom, every time she`s asked about her obsessiveness with Travis, she diverts the subject to really him being obsessive with her.
ELEANOR ODOM: Yes, but I think there are numerous witnesses that the state can use to show her obsessiveness. And again, it`s the same-old sort of stories all the time. If she can`t have him, no one`s going to have him. And that`s why she did away with him.
CASAREZ: Alright. I want to thank you all of our guests.
Tonight, let us stop to remember, Army Corporal Jeffrey Roberson, 22- years-old from California. He was killed in Afghanistan. He was awarded the bronze star, the purple heart, and the Afghanistan campaign medal.
He loved of drawing and computers and music and racing cars. He is remembered as always making time for others. He dreamed of being a California highway patrol officer. He leaves behind his parents, Virginia and Michael. His stepparents, randy and Karen. His sister, Jennifer, and his brother, Jason. Jeffrey Roberson, an American hero.
Thank you so much to all of our guests and to you for being at home. We`re going to see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. Until then, good night, everybody.
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