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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Mom Lying to Police about Missing Toddler?; Teen Mom Fights Back to Protect Baby
Aired January 04, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight a toddler vanishes in South Carolina, and cops say his mom is telling them lie after lie. The 18-month-old boy wasn`t even reported missing until his suspicious grandmother called police. Hmm, sounds familiar. Is this mom the new Casey Anthony? What happened to this precious little boy?
Then, a New Year`s Eve nightmare. A newly-widowed teen mom, home alone, confronts two men cops say were carrying out an armed home invasion. You will not believe what this mom did to protect her 3-month-old baby. We have the 911 call and her incredible story.
Plus Maria Shriver told Arnold Schwarzenegger "hasta la vista, baby," after the world learned of his affair with the family`s housekeeper and their secret love child. Now reports claim Maria might be getting back together with Arnold. Bad idea? We`ll debate it and take your calls.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have had no luck locating a 1 1/2-year- old boy missing for more than a month now.
CHIEF RANDY SCOTT, COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA, POLICE DEPARTMENT: If you have Amir, you need to call law enforcement immediately.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say her son has not been seen since Thanksgiving.
SCOTT: If you have seen Amir, you need to call us immediately.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Zinah Jennings was asked about her son, who was not in the car, she gave conflicting stories.
SCOTT: At one hand, the baby was in Atlanta. And in the other hand, the baby was in Charlotte.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Either someone has this child and he`s been abducted or, obviously, the worst is possible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect`s mother, Jocelyn Jennings, told her daughter had been making cryptic phone calls.
SCOTT: She`s still given us inconsistent stories.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from New York City tonight.
A toddler missing for a month while his mom tells cops lie after lie after lie. And the little boy`s grandmother is the one who calls cops to report the child missing. No, I`m not talking about Casey Anthony. But there are some very eerie parallels.
Amir Jennings has not been seen since Thanksgiving. That`s November 24. In fact, his mom disappeared with him around the same time. Look at this precious little boy, smiling at the time of this photo. But, the mother has since shown up with this beautiful, beautiful little boy nowhere in sight.
OK. This is his mother, 22-year-old Zinah Jennings. She was found when she got into a car accident on Christmas Eve, but her son was not with her. When asked about "where is your missing child?" she gave the cops a series of bizarre excuses and stories, none of which turned out to be the truth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT: She`s still giving us inconsistent stories. It is unfortunate. Our main concern is the whereabouts and the safety of this child right now. That we just don`t have any concrete idea. She said that, you know, at one hand the baby was in Atlanta. In the other hand the baby was in Charlotte.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The stories actually go further than that. First she says her son is with her sister in Atlanta. Then she says, "No, he`s actually with a friend in Charlotte, North Carolina." When that doesn`t pan out, she sends cops on another fruitless chase to her friend`s house in her home town of Columbia, South Carolina.
Police finally said, "Enough, lady." Last week they arrested her, charged her with unlawful conduct towards a child. Now she`s in the slammer. But she continues to impede the police investigation into finding her own son. What`s up with that? What`s she hiding? Where is her adorable, innocent helpless toddler? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586- 7297.
Straight out to Chief Randy Scott of the Columbia Police Department.
Sir, thanks for joining us. I know that you are doing so much to try and find this child. How frustrating has it been dealing with this mother?
Are you there, Chief?
SCOTT (via phone): Here. Yes. Yes, ma`am, I`m here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. How frustrating has it been dealing with this mother?
SCOTT: Well, you know, the mother is still giving us the same inconsistent stories at this point. And we are no closer right now, unfortunately, to finding Amir as we were the first day, because we`re not getting any factual information.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I`m looking at her picture. Looks like she`s got, like, a black eye under one of her eyes. I mean, what`s up with this mom? I understand that her behavior hanged radically after she had this child. She went from being a good college student to somebody who`s behaving erratically and had a couple of car accidents. What do you think`s wrong with her?
SCOTT: Well, according to the grandmother, Zinah was a college student. She was well on her way to doing what was -- what was necessary. But, unfortunately, after the child, that`s when things began to go downhill.
And right now, you know -- our concern -- Zinah is a risk. If Zinah - - we know Zinah is in a place. What we`re trying to find now is Amir OK? Is he safe? And where is his whereabouts right now?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, if you can hang on, Chief, we`re going to bring in some experts here. There are many strange similarities to the Casey Anthony case, a missing toddler. Nobody is saying who the dad is. A 22- year-old mom just like Casey, same age who is in jail but nevertheless stonewalls cops. Remember how Casey used to lie to cops in much the same way as this woman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED OF MURDER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure you do.
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something happened to Caylee. We`re not asking when is the last time you saw her. I`m guessing that something bad happened her some time ago and you haven`t seen her. So that part is true if you say you haven`t seen her, because she`s somewhere else right now. She`s in a Dumpster right now. She`s buried somewhere. She`s out there somewhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Investigative reporter Jon Lieberman, and then there`s the grandmother, Jocelyn Jennings. OK? Just like Cindy Anthony, she`s the one who reports this child missing. It`s unbelievable the parallels here.
JON LIEBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: It almost gives you a pit in your stomach when you start to think of the similarities here. And the real problem is this, Jane. The first 24 to 48 hours are the most important in a missing person`s investigation, particularly in the case of a missing toddler.
Now what you have is the one person who knows the whereabouts of this child is in jail, is lying, is telling conflicting stories, and police have to pass these out, missing child flyers, to try and get some information from the public over a three- or four-state radius. I mean, it`s absolutely infuriating what this mother is doing at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and not only that, different jurisdictions, the cost to taxpayers. And of course, the most important thing, a priceless child. And like you said, Jon, the clock is ticking.
Now, look at this very suspicious timeline of what happened in the month between Amir`s disappearance and his mom`s arrest. November 24, Thanksgiving, the last time Amir was seen. December 5, according to her own mother`s report, Zinah had her first car accident near this location in Columbia, South Carolina. Then Zinah kind of disappears, goes off the face of the earth.
And then December 8, the grandma reports Zinah and Amir missing. And skip to December 24, Christmas Eve, Zinah gets into a second car accident near her home in Columbia, South Carolina. And then, December 29, she`s arrested.
I want to bring in Michelle Golland, clinical psychologist. Because the neighbors, the relatives say she was a different person after the child was born. And even the arrest report, the incident report says that she was making eerie phone calls to her relatives, talking about her depression. So how long can you have postpartum, because this little boy is 18 months old?
MICHELLE GOLLAND, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you can have untreated postpartum depression. So if this woman, this young, very young woman had postpartum depression and it was never treated, it would just get exacerbated over time, Jane. That`s what we do know about postpartum.
But you know, I heard -- I heard the grandmother said that her life changed and things changed after Amir was born. The other thing is, Jane, the same similarity between Casey and this young woman is they`re young. These are young -- these are children having children.
And the reason why their grandmothers are the ones who are reporting them missing or dealing with it in what feels to be the appropriate manner is because they are adults.
And really, when you look at these two women, their lives had one thing happening...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
GOLLAND: ... which may have been a more positive trajectory, and then getting pregnant, unwed, and no father figure for this child. And it takes you down a road of instability, difficulty. I mean, we have reality shows about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right.
GOLLAND: You know, this is...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I hear you, and I agree with you. I agree with you that there`s a cautionary tale here. The children themselves are precious and miraculous, but kids having kids is a bad idea. And there is a difference between post-partum depression and simply not wanting your child.
I want to go to the phone lines. Elaine, Oklahoma, your question or thought, Elaine.
CALLER: Hi, Jane. I`m in Illinois. Thanks for talking to me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.
CALLER: OK. How are you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m great. What`s your question?
CALLER: OK, well, I was wondering if the last time the baby was seen with her, I guess, and if they were in the car, and if there was any chance or there was any video from anywhere that she would have been parked?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excellent, excellent. Chief Randy Scott, when was the last time this child was seen other than by the mother? And is there surveillance video?
SCOTT: Well, right now what we know is the grandmother saw the child during the Thanksgiving holidays.
Now, we`ve also involved the FBI, South Carolina law enforcement division, and we`re checking those facts right now to see if there`s any video connected with any of the transactions that she had made or any of the states that she had said she has been in. But that`s what we`re trying to verify right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I would say do a polygraph, but what`s the point? You have determined that she`s lying about everything in your efforts to save her own child.
My heart goes out to the grandmother and the child himself. I pray that he is found OK, but, again, the clock is ticking.
Up next, an incredible story of survival. A teenage mom shoots an intruder dead after asking a 911 operator, "Is it OK if I shoot him?" I`m going to talk to the cool, calm, collected dispatcher who spent 20 minutes on the phone with this terrified young woman before the gun went off. Unbelievable. Taking your calls on that, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH MCKINLEY, PROTECTED BABY FROM INTRUDER: I`ve got two guns in my hand. Is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door?
DIANE GRAHAM, 911 DISPATCHER: Well, you have to do whatever you can do to protect yourself. I can`t tell you that you can do that, but you do what you have to do to protect your baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCKINLEY: I got 911.
GRAHAM: 911. What`s your emergency?
MCKINLEY: Do what you have to do. Don`t be scared. You have to make a choice you or him. And I chose my son.
GRAHAM: I knew she was scared because she was whispering. So I knew she didn`t want him to know that she was on phone with me.
MCKINLEY: He went from door to door, trying to bust in. I don`t know what he had in his hand besides the knife. Something you never think is never going to happen to you. Something you hear about, you know. It can`t really happen, but I guess it can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She had a gun. And guess what? She wasn`t afraid to use it. This is an incredible story of a mother protecting her little baby from terrifying danger.
Two men picked the wrong woman to mess with when they allegedly broke into this 18-year-old mom`s home. She was alone with her 3-month-old baby. Her husband -- get this -- had died a week earlier on Christmas Eve.
Then, flash forward to New Year`s Eve, she`s at home by herself with the baby, mourning, she sees two guys going from house to house, trying to break in. They make their way to her door. She`s terrified. And she calls 911.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCKINLEY: This guy is up to no good. My husband just passed away. I`m here by myself with my infant baby. Can I please get a dispatcher out here immediately?
GRAHAM: OK. Hang on. Just hang with me. Are your doors locked?
MCKINLEY: Yes. I`ve got two guns in my hand. Is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s so calm. I`m going hysterical right now, OK, just thinking about this.
Soon after those men allegedly did break her door down and one, police say, was armed with a knife. She chose to protect her baby, and she pulled the trigger, boom, shooting that intruder dead.
Now I`m going to show you the man cops say was the second guy who ran off but who later turned himself in. He was arraigned today. He is charged with -- well, we`ll get to that in a second, because it`s a shocker, maybe, for you.
What do you think? Is this mother a hero for taking matters into her own hands and refusing to become a victim of a home invasion, a crime which I personally consider domestic terrorism? I`m taking your calls on this one: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Joining me now is the cool-as-a-cumber dispatcher who helped this young mother survive this terrifying ordeal, Diane Graham.
Diane, welcome. My hat`s off to you. You are one cool customer. We`re going to play the key moments, the key interaction that you had with the mother and get your reasoning behind what you told her. So let`s listen first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCKINLEY: I`ve got two guns in my hand. Is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door?
GRAHAM: Well, you have to do whatever you can do to protect yourself. I can`t tell you that you can do that, but you do what you have to do to protect your baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, dispatcher Diane, what was running through your mind, and why did you say what you did? Tell us what you were going through?
GRAHAM: Well, I had only been a dispatcher for 2 1/2 months. So the training that I had been receiving, one of the first things they tell you is don`t ever tell anybody that they can shoot someone, because you can`t give them legal advice. So I guess my supervisor that I have, I thought of her, and I thought I can`t just tell her she can shoot, but she needs to protect her baby because as a mother, I wanted her to protect her baby.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think the general consensus is that you made the right decision, and that`s reinforced by the fact that this mother is not being charged with anything. You won`t believe who is being charged.
And now the mom, Sarah McKinley, talked to Dr. Drew about the moment she shot and killed the intruder. Let`s listen to the mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN ANCHOR: Can you take us through that part where they showed up and how you decided to use lethal force?
MCKINLEY: Well, when he busted in the door, he had a hunting knife in his hand. And I had the catch (ph) in front of the door, trying to barricade so that it would stall him or, you know, possibly even keep him out, which is what I hoped.
But when he busted in the door, I saw something shimmer in his hand. I thought it was a pistol at first, but it was a -- it was a 4-inch hunting knife. And I didn`t know that until after I shot and killed him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. By the way, you can tune in to Dr. Drew for Sarah`s entire story tonight to hear how she thinks she confronted this intruder years ago and was so scared she stayed with her mother that night. That`s some intruder that she confronted. That`s tonight, "DR. DREW," 9 p.m. Eastern.
Jon Lieberman, investigative reporter, tell us who is being charged. This is a shocker.
LIEBERMAN: Well, in an amazing twist, actually, the dead man`s accomplice is not only being charged with first-degree burglary, also now being charged with first-degree murder. Let me explain.
The way the law is written, if during the commission of a crime, in this case a burglary, somebody dies, then somebody else who was there at the time can be held culpable for the murder. In other words, this man`s accomplice, because he was robbing the home with him and he died, this man is now being charged with murder. It`s an amazing twist.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The teen mother, Sarah McKinley, stayed on the phone with 911 for 21 minutes. More of this unbelievable call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: Is he trying to get in the door?
MCKINLEY: He just keeps knocking.
GRAHAM: Do you have like an alarm on your car that you can set off with your remote control that might scare him and get him away?
MCKINLEY: No, I don`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Curtis Sliwa, founder of the Guardian Angels, your whole philosophy is defend yourself. Briefly, what do you think of this mom?
CURTIS SLIWA, FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS: Oh, thumbs up. I mean we`re talking the Annie Oakley medallion for self-defense. This woman has set the way.
I`m just happy she was in Oklahoma, because you know, Jane, up here in New York, the district attorneys would probably be mulling charging her with a violation. In fact, I`m surprised she didn`t preemptively shoot him right through the door with that 12-gauge shotgun, because remember, she had another handgun fully loaded, ready to take on whoever may have come in.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Diane, dispatcher, what did your bosses tell you?
GRAHAM: They tell me I cannot give legal advice.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, but after, what did they tell you. This whole extraordinary thing happens. Did you hear the gunshot?
GRAHAM: No. I had transferred her to another dispatcher at that time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What did your bosses tell you after we found out he was shot and killed?
GRAHAM: They told me I did a very good job.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I think you did. You`re my hero.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCKINLEY: Maybe a new start. Maybe something a little better than last year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just a week before her home was invaded by robbers, McKinley lost her husband to lung cancer. Get this. One of the intruders she shot dropped by the funeral, claiming he was a neighbor who wanted to say hello.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: Can you give me a description while we`re waiting. Can you give me a description of the man? I mean, could you see him?
MCKINLEY: I just looked through the hole in the door. He`s been here now twice. He`s got orange hair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sheriff Arquel (ph), we understand now there is a drug link, sir, that these guys may have been scoping her out, hoping to get her deceased husband`s pain killers?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not affirmed -- been confirmed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, I`m just going to read to you from the CNN wire copy. It says that one of the officers has said that the suspects ingested hydrocodone about 30 minutes before reaching the rural home. And hydrocodone has now taken over OxyContin as the new hillbilly heroin. It`s a very, very strong narcotic pain killer that is highly addictive.
So Sheriff, I think it certainly makes sense. Didn`t the surviving alleged intruder tell -- tell you guys something about ingesting hydrocodone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn`t do the investigation. I`m only here for the 911 dispatch. Our county did the 911 dispatch.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, well -- OK, all right. I`ll jump to the 911 dispatch. What do you make of how are your dispatch operator worked?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very professionally. She did a very good job in keeping her calm. That`s what their job is to do, is to make sure that the person that`s on phone are comfortable. And make sure that they know that there`s somebody there to be with them and give them support.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I agree with you. My hat`s off to her. I`m an excitable person. I could never be a 911 dispatch operator. I was told I could never be a cop. I`m not also into violence. I`m a nonviolent person. But to me, home invasions are the most insidious, awful, evil thing. They are domestic terrorism, and if somebody invades your home, I say gun them down.
I want to go to the phone lines now. Cheryl, South Carolina, your question or thought, Cheryl?
CALLER: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s your question, my dear? Yes, what`s your question, Cheryl?
CALLER: Well, first I want to congratulate you on everything you do as far as victims and victims` rights and being such a proponent for victims.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: I`m going to jump in, Cheryl, because I appreciate that. We prevented a victim here. This 911 dispatch operator -- Jon Lieberman, who knows what the heck they would have done once they got in there?
LIEBERMAN: Well, absolutely. And as you mention, police do believe this was premeditated. They do believe that these two guys scouted out this location and were, indeed, looking for this pain medication. So who knows what could have transpired, had they gotten into the home and at that point this woman fought back?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Curtis, final word, 10 seconds.
SLIWA: There was no Kool-Aid running through this young mom`s veins and arteries. She is a true role model, a true hero for other single mothers out there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Agree with you. Take the hat off!.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi Arias, she`s young and beautiful. Police say she`s a cold-blooded killer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That beautiful woman accused of viciously -- and I mean viciously -- murdering her former boyfriend by stabbing him 27 times and slashing his throat.
JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF MURDERING BOYFRIEND: This isn`t a two-sided story, this is a multi-faceted story. There are many sides to this story. And I just don`t feel like mine has been represented.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi is extremely articulate. She`s beautiful but she`s also very well-spoken. She`s not hysterical. She`s not overly emotional.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s frightening both her calm and what`s also a little disturbing is how much she seems to be liking all of this attention.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A defense team overhaul for Jodi Arias, the woman accused of viciously -- and I mean viciously -- killing her former boyfriend back in 2008. I`m not just talking about shooting him in the head. I`m talking about stabbing him 27 times and slashing his throat ear to ear. That`s what she`s accused of.
She hasn`t had her day in court yet and boy that day keeps getting postponed. A new attorney has now been named to her legal team after her first lawyer walked off the case. Arias is now facing the death penalty and she insists her side of the story just hasn`t been told.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I could feel like since I`ve been incarcerated it`s almost like there`s been a proverbial duct tape over my mouth and I haven`t been able to say anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Despite her claim, Jodi Arias has repeatedly spoken out and told her story in multiple interviews. There`s just one little problem -- her story keeps changing. First she said she wasn`t at Travis` apartment. Then she said well I was in the apartment and two masked intruders came in and attacked us. Now, according to court documents she is saying, "Yes, I killed him but I did it in self-defense."
27 times, you stabbed him in self defense? Hello.
What do you think about this case? Call me 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586- 7297.
Straight out to Gregg Paul, reporter 550 KFYI, Radio Phoenix; Gregg, thank you for joining us tonight. You saw Jodi Arias in court yesterday. Tell us about the whole scene inside the courtroom. Paint a picture for us.
GREGG PAUL, REPORTER 550 KFYI, RADIO PHOENIX: Well the whole scene really was just she was in court with her new lawyers because another lawyer left in early December. So she had to be appointed a new public defender.
But in court she`s very demure. She`s attractive. Her hair is very long now and brown. I have some pictures you see her as a blonde. But she sat there with her head down most of the time.
The best way to describe it, she looked like "Cousin It" with her hair around her face but she just sat there and was extremely quiet. She only talked when the judge asked her if she agreed to push back the trial date. It was supposed to start in February but now that new trial date will start on October 17th. But it looks like she`s ready to work with her lawyers and tell her story. But that story keeps changing as you just mentioned.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes, it sure does. And I wonder, ok, she`s got a new attorney and it is a death penalty case but October 17th? It just seems to me like any time you have a high-profile case everything just gets postponed and postponed and postponed to the point where it`s hard for people to remember what the heck went on and that, of course, favors the defendant.
So it`s in their best interest to postpone and postpone and postpone. And infuriate their lawyer to the point that they walk off the case. And guess what, if you drive your lawyer crazy and they flee the case you get to delay.
Former prosecutor from Phoenix Tim La Sota, you`re right there where all this is going down. Am I just talking nonsense or do I have a point?
TIM LA SOTA, FORMER PHOENIX PROSECUTOR: Well, there`s no question that a lot of defense attorneys do push delay, but in this case the defendant here has made a number of what we call admissions in the legal world and that means that, you know, we talked about her changing her story and those things are going to stick with her even if she pushes this thing along.
In other words, her, you know, her three essentially different stories those aren`t going to go anywhere. You know, if you`re a defendant --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait -- let me just ask you one thing, ok because a lot of people are comparing this to the Casey Anthony case. I mean a beautiful young woman accused of doing something unimaginable, tells a million stories, looks great, seems to like being in front of the camera.
But Casey Anthony changed her story many, many times. It was also a death penalty case. But we only heard really one version at the end of the day, that new story that Jose Baez said about, oh, it was an accidental drowning.
We didn`t hear all the stories -- not in court anyway -- that she had made up all the different things that she had said. Which, in fact, Jeff Ashton the prosecutor revealed in his book, Tim.
LA SOTA: Well, I would expect that the jury in this case will hear all the different stories. I can`t see any reason why they wouldn`t. This would seem to be completely admissible. Typically when a defendant says something and the state wants to offer it, it`s admissible. And certainly the prosecution will want to offer this because it does raise credibility issues about her most -- latest version of facts which is she acted in self-defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to get to perhaps the most salacious aspect of this story. Cops found a camera in Travis` apartment that had photos of Travis and Jodi together in a sexual context. They were sexual photos. Jodi was asked point blank about these sex photos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: They are just photos that we took, and that we deleted with the intention of -- that wasn`t a one-time incident. I mean there were many times where, you know --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You took pictures?
ARIAS: Yes, pictures. Whatever and any kind of media and it was deleted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Gregg Paul, you`re a reporter there and you`re all over this case. Tell us about this camera issue. There are pictures of Travis with Jodi in sexual situations. But what`s the timeline because then ultimately a little bit later there`s a picture of Travis covered in blood.
PAUL: That`s right. These pictures are from a digital camera that was found in a washing machine and they are time-stamped the day that Travis was killed. And this is what puts Jodi at the scene. Of course, as you just said there was pictures of a sexual encounter between Travis and Jodi and then soon after that there was pictures of Travis as he was being killed or soon after he was killed.
And, of course, that`s what the time stamps off that digital camera puts her at the scene and that`s why police said to her that they knew she was there. Because at first her story was, "It wasn`t me, I wasn`t there." But then when they found those pictures they knew she was there and confronted her with that. But it wasn`t until after she was arrested that she admitted or had told the story that some intruders came into the house and attacked them and then she left and Travis was still alive.
And now we have the new story that she was sexually and physically abused and it was a domestic violence incident and why she had to kill Travis. But yes. Those digital pictures will come up in court and they are a big part of this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Tim La Sota, the obvious question I have is how can you kill somebody by stabbing them 27 times plus shooting them in the face plus slitting their throat ear to ear and say it`s self-defense. At a certain point don`t you have to stop stabbing?
LA SOTA: Well, I think it will be really interesting how the defense tries to explain that at the trial. Now technically they only have to offer a little bit of evidence of self-defense and then the state has to show that she did not act in self-defense. But in this case with essentially the three different stories that have been told I think she`s going to have a hard time not doing something to explain what she`s done.
Now as we`ve seen, you know, we`ve had cases, Casey Anthony, O.J. Simpson where you have defendants who are pretty obviously guilty, juries do strange things. So -- and she`s got a right to her day in court. But nonetheless that`s -- her story is going to be a big problem for her and it will be very interesting to see how the defense tries to overcome what seems to be some massive credibility issues.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I agree with you. When it comes to these really high-profile cases the fact that it`s an open and shut case on its face almost seems to be a contrarian indicator because so many of these high-profile open and shut cases end up being lost by the prosecution. So we`ll have to see.
All right. The phone lines are lighting up. Nellie, Michigan, your question or thought Nellie?
NELLIE, MICHIGAN (via telephone): Hi Jane, how are you tonight?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi. Good.
NELLIE: Good, nice to talk to you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You too.
NELLIE: My comment is that, you know, she does remind me a lot of Casey Anthony just how she presents herself and I`m absolutely just sickened by her just as much as I was Casey Anthony. And I know that we did lose somebody but at least it wasn`t another child and I just would like to thank you for everything that you do as well, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Nellie. I want to bring in clinical psychologist, Michelle Golland. These people are trying to figure this woman out; one of the reasons why this case is so fascinating.
As it was with the Casey Anthony case, it`s that you have these beautiful young women, who -- they don`t fit our stereotype of a killer. And we have to point out Casey Anthony was found not guilty of killing her daughter. But they don`t fit the stereotype. And I think part of what we can learn from all these cases is that your stereotypes that you have in your head about who is the bad guy and who`s the good guy, or who`s a good girl and who`s a bad girl are wrong.
MICHELLE GOLLAND, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. And I think, you know, the reason also why there`s interest in this is simply that they are attractive, right, for the media. That`s something that makes this of interest as well and their age, although Arias is slightly older.
But to me this is so clearly, if it is that she did do this crime, was a rage killing because she was being dumped. And she could not handle dealing with the rejection.
And so the way to, you know, reclaim herself was to punish him, the ultimate punishment. And you can see even in this, I`m seeing, the -- you know, putting on the makeup and doing that. There are so many personality issues that speak to borderline personality, narcissism, clearly sociopathic behaviors that she could have executed such a violent crime.
And I think the photos are very interesting as well, Jane, the fact that she took a photo of him after she -- if it is true that she killed him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is true. So many cliches pop into my mind. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. I think it`s sexist, even though what was it Shakespeare.
Coming up, Arnold`s secret love child so last year. Now, Arnold and Maria may be getting back together. Rumor has it. Rumor has it. Isn`t that a song by Adele? We`re taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Call me about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you give this fiery speech at the Republican convention, how long did it take you before you talked to each other?
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, FORMER GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA: Well, there was no sex for 14 days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a question -- are Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver reuniting?
SCHWARZENEGGER: We both love each other very much.
MIKE WALTERS, NEWS MANAGER, TMZ: For over ten years he had a love child that his wife and his family didn`t know about.
SCHWARZENEGGER: I have misbehaved.
Maria is an extraordinary wife and a great partner. And she`s my partner. She`s the best first lady that the state ever had.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are we about to see the return of the ultimate Hollywood power couple? We all remember Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver`s marriage exploding, imploding last year after an extremely public announcement that Arnold was leading a double life cheating on Maria with their housekeeper and fathering a love child right under their nose.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHWARZENEGGER: We both love each other very much. We`re very fortunate that we have four extraordinary children. And we`re taking it one day at a time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Maria filed for divorce months ago but rumors have started to fly now about a reconciliation after the couple spent Christmas together reportedly. And then just days ago both Arnold and Maria reportedly showing off, there are the photos, rings on that all-important finger. Ok.
Is game on again between these two? You know, this is reminding me of something. Yes. That line from one of Arnold`s movies from Tristar Pictures, of course.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHWARZENEGGER: Stay here. I`ll be back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve been banned from doing bad impressions so I will not be able to add anything to that. But I mean the question is, is Arnold back in her good graces? Is the divorce over? I have the divorce papers right here.
Some women might say "Maria, come on. Why are you doing this? You`re a high-profile woman and you`re allowing this guy who humiliated you to walk back into your life?" However, others might say hey, she doesn`t believe in divorce. She`s following her belief. She`s a well-known devout Catholic.
So I guess the question is could her morals trump his really awful behavior? What do you think? Call me 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to TMZ news manager, Mike Walters; you`re the one with the Scooby-doo. Tell us.
WALTERS: Well, Jane, I can tell you that Maria Shriver is telling her friends she`s definitely having second thoughts about going through the divorce with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Now, I can tell you this is for several reasons. One, because she`s very religious and there has been some time now to think about what happened and divorce for some people just isn`t on the table. And I am told that she is leaning towards not going through with the divorce.
Also like you said before, they both have been wearing rings, his definitely his wedding ring, hers a ring that appears to be a ring but it`s definitely on that finger. But I can tell you that, you know, I don`t know. Of the short list of things that are guaranteed to get you out of a marriage where you don`t get a second chance, fathering a child with the housekeeper is probably up there. But I`m really blown away about this.
I can tell you she`s telling her friends it`s possible she`s not going to go through with this although she has done nothing legally to stop the divorce. But that is what she`s saying to people right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. He must have talents beyond acting, that`s all I can say. Arnold`s mistress was the family`s housekeeper for 20 years; her name, Mildred Patty Baena, seen here in photos from MySpace. Baena gave birth to Arnold`s love child just one week apart from the birth of Maria and Arnold`s youngest son.
Now TMZ says that this housekeeper idolized Maria and even dressed up in her clothes. Here`s the thing. This is bad behavior. We`re going to bring in our expert in bad behavior, Steve Santagati, bestselling author of "The Manual". And when it comes to bad behavior by men we call on you because we know you`re the expert in that.
STEVE SANTAGATI, AUTHOR, "THE MANUAL": Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I mean let`s face it this was a man who was the governor of California for almost a decade. He`s a man with tremendous power, tremendous clout. Why is she just apparently possibly forgiving him?
SANTAGATI: Well she probably looked at the pictures of the housekeeper, the nanny there and realized wow he must have been temporarily insane to have sex with this woman. You know, the thing is, you know, let`s look at the facts, Jane. She`s -- what is she going to do? Start dating now?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Yes.
SANTAGATI: Come on, who is going to date her? Think about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What?
SANTAGATI: Really.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You probably would date her.
SANTAGATI: No, Jane. No.
Jane, you know, you and I are going out so I`m not going to cheat on you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How can you say that? How can you say who`s going to date her. She`s a beautiful woman. Maria Shriver is gorgeous.
SANTAGATI: Because -- yes, she`s gorgeous but she has --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t tell me it`s because she`s 56. You better not because you know how old I am.
SANTAGATI: I`m going to come over there. Jane, zipit.com, listen for a second. It`s because she has all this baggage. She has kids. She`s a high-profile woman with a high-profile husband and very high-profile scandal. Ok. So, yes. She might as well --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to go. More on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know about you but I find it hard a lot of times to get to the gym. Once I`m there I`m thinking wait I drove a mile to get to the gym and now I`m walking a mile on treadmill. Why didn`t I just walk?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) for themselves what works for them and you know sometimes we all decide what`s forgivable or what`s not in your own relationships.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think it`s any of our business. I`m not quite sure why America is so infatuated with the idea of sex.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you think it`s a problem for Maria Shriver? What about President Clinton and Hillary?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I was out there on street. People are very -- like whatever she wants to do is ok by me. People were not saying don`t go back, Maria.
And in fact, there`s no shortage of women who stood by their men after a cheating scandal. For example, former New Jersey governor, Jim McGreevey, his wife stood next to him when he announced that he was gay, for example. Let`s listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES MCGREEVEY, FORMER GOVERNOR, NEW JERSEY: Shamefully I engaged in an adult consensual affair with another man which violated my bonds of matrimony. It was wrong, it was foolish and inexcusable. For this I ask the forgiveness and the grace of my wife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But she later got angry.
And then there`s former Congressman Anthony Weiner who sent lewd photos of his genitals to another woman. And of course, the big one; of course, Bill Clinton and Hillary and everybody referred to that.
So, I guess maybe I`m the crazy one. I`m the crazy one who thinks hey, you know what? You cheat on me and have sex with our housekeeper and father a child at the same time that you are fathering a child with me? You`re out of here. That`s what I would say -- forever. But apparently nobody agrees with me. What do you make of it, Kelly?
KELLY: Yes, I think one of the deal breakers that having a kid with my housekeepers probably outranks things like leaving the tube off the toothpaste -- the cap off the toothpaste. I`m just going to go out on a limb there and say that.
But you know what; it really depends on -- it`s such an individual decision, Jane. And you`re not crazy. You`re not crazy because there are a lot of women go out there going right on, sister. I`m right there with you.
I think the issue is, there`s so many considerations you know that people have to think about. Their kids. For some of these people it`s not about being an individual it`s about becoming a unit, a brand.
I mean let`s face it. Maria Shriver is a great lady on her own. Arnold Schwarzenegger is great on his own. Would he have become governor without her? Right?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Probably not because he had all those scandals while he was running. Remember the women who accused him of sexual indiscretions. I mean he was accused of a string of sexual indiscretions and Steve Santagati, she helped to get him elected because he was accused of crossing the line and groping, et cetera, et cetera; and she basically stood by her man.
So, how is that to repay a woman who stands by you the first time by doing something like that and then she still goes back?
SANTAGATI: Jane, let me be clear. I`m not condoning infidelity in any way shape or form. I`m just saying that look, men are genetically programmed to act a certain way. They have to use their mind over their body. It`s not natural in most circumstances. Monogamy is a choice men make.
What Arnold did was wrong. There`s no defending what he did. However, there`s a family unit there like Kelly said and maybe that`s what they are trying to resolve.
The fact of the matter is too you got to look at the big picture here. It`s like what are they going to do without each other? She knows this enemy. She knows this animal, if you will.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t call him an animal. Animals don`t cheat. Go ahead.
SANTAGATI: Yes, animals are not monogamous.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Some are monogamous. Pigeons mate for life. Penguins mate for life.
SANTAGATI: No, they don`t. There`s only one animal that --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Steve don`t be a bad boy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now our guests will talk to Maria for 15 seconds each. Kelly?
KELLY: First of all, I`m a big fan of your work and I`d love to see you back on the air somewhere now that you have some freedom. But second of all I would just say do whatever you would advise and want your own daughter to do in the same situation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Steve?
SANTAGATI: Maria, follow your heart. You know what to do as a woman. The only time women ever make mistakes is when they don`t follow their instincts. You know what this guy is. You know how men are by now. Do what you think is best for you, and your family and most important, your career.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. What I would say is Maria, just because it feels familiar doesn`t mean it`s safe. And we look to the past to predict the future. So if you do get back with Arnold, don`t be surprised if, well -- I think you can finish that sentence.
Again I`m also a huge fan and I wish you all the very best.
"NANCY GRACE" is up next.
END
