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Nancy Grace

Body Found May Be Missing Chattanooga Woman

Aired January 16, 2012 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live Chattanooga. As we go to air, police hone in on an abandoned home to find their worst fears confirmed, the body believed to be that of a gorgeous young mom of four little boys, Erika Whaley, found there in the home.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we learn when Erika`s family first reports her missing, they are told to, quote, "Wait a while," that she`ll probably, quote, "turn up." As we wait for a positive ID of the woman`s remains, tonight, what happened in that abandoned house?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news, a shocking discovery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found a body inside the residence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mystery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police believe they`ve found a female body in a boarded-up, abandoned house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Body is decomposed. It has not been positively identified yet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement has found decomposed remains.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a high probability that it is Erika.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could it be Erika?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They believe those remains could be missing mother of four Erika Whaley.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erika last seen getting into a red pick-up truck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erika`s family says that she`s a good mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found these remains in a boarded-up home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she loves her four little boys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, Houston, we have a problem. Live, Missouri, a woman tries to save her marriage and insists on marriage counseling. But in the middle of a session, her husband blurts out he`s having an affair, with no intentions of ending it. Does Mommy cry, throw a fit, threaten divorce? No, she tracks down the mistress and shoots her point-blank in the face.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honey, I murdered your mistress. That`s what police say a woman called to tell her husband after allegedly shooting his mistress. The mistress, a Missouri psychiatrist, was found dead in her Missouri home. She`d been shot in the face three times, the mistress allegedly gunned down by former NASA employee Shannon Griffin (ph), who had just learned earlier that day that the psychiatrist was having an affair with her husband. Police say Griffin found out about the affair in a therapy session with her husband. Griffin reportedly called her husband after the alleged shooting to tell him she did what she had to do to protect him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live, Chattanooga. As we go to air, police hone in on an abandoned home to find their worst fears confirmed, the body believed to be that of a gorgeous young mom of four little boys, Erika Whaley, found there in the home.

We are waiting right now for a positive ID on the remains. We`re not sure whether those remains are being identified through DNA, though clothing, which will not be 100 percent accurate, or through dental records. And as soon as we get that confirmed, we`ll report that immediately.

Right now, we are waiting on a positive ID of remains found, female remains, we know that. We believe the remains were wearing -- still wearing white tennis shoes. There you see the body being taken out of the abandoned home. Again, waiting now.

The mother of four young boys, a 25-year-old beauty, goes missing. And we learn tonight when her family first reports that she`s gone, they are told, quote, to "wait a little while," that she will, quote, "turn up." Well, we believe she turned up all right tonight, dead in an abandoned home. How long has she been there? We don`t know.

Out to Joe Gomez, senior investigative reporter, KTRH News. Joe, what can you tell me about the body found?

JOE GOMEZ, KTRH: That`s right, Nancy, it`s a terrible discovery. In this boarded-up, abandoned home apparently belonging to Erika`s grandfather, we have found a body that is in such an advanced state of decomposition that we still can`t identify it yet.

GRACE: What do we know about the body? Are we sure it`s a female?

GOMEZ: Police believe it is a female, but they`re not sure, Nancy. It could take days for an analysis to be done, an autopsy.

GRACE: You know, I disagree with that right there, Joe Gomez. To Dr. Bill Manion joining us, medical examiner, joining us tonight out of Philadelphia. Dr. Manion, thank you for being with us. That`s all BS right there. And I`m just telling you right now that a cop can look at a body, look at the remains -- not the cops but the ME -- can at least tell me whether it`s a man or a woman. You could do that almost instantaneously.

DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER, NEW JERSEY: Yes, you can -- you can do that, depending on how much decomposition it is. But the pelvis of a female is different from the pelvis of a male. So that can be determined quickly.

GRACE: You know, Dr. Manion, I`ve been studying this for many, many years to identify -- about identifying remains. And I don`t necessarily mean fresh remains, I mean remains that have been there for a long period of time, very often skeletonized remains. Now, we don`t believe these remains are skeletonized.

Tonight, for those of you just joining us, police hone in on an abandoned home to find remains, female remains, we believe. Now, are they those of a missing young mom of four, Erika Whaley, just 25 years old? Here`s her shot, tip line 423-698-3333.

Dr. Manion, it`s my understanding from speaking to many, many experts like yourself that not only can you determine whether it`s a woman by the pelvic bones, but you can tell by, for instance, the length of the legs, of the long bones in the body, the legs, the femurs, the arms. Not only that, by the teeth themselves. According to forensic anthropologists, you can determine not only if it`s a man or a woman by their teeth alone, you can determine whether it is a Caucasian body, an African-American body.

MANION: Yes, that`s correct.

GRACE: Explain.

MANION: Well, the shape of the skull, the shape of the orbits of the eyes -- every different race has different characteristics. And so anthropologists in particular are experts at telling this skull, for instance, is the skull of a Caucasian, so -- just based on the size of the eyes, or the skull of a person -- a Mongolian skull.

GRACE: Exactly.

MANION: So absolutely. And then like you said, with the bones. They can tell a lot about the bones. The size and thickness of the bones give us a good clue as to whether it`s a man or a woman.

GRACE: So Joe Gomez, senior investigative reporter, KTRH News, don`t even start with me that they don`t know if this is a man or a woman because they do. They may not be releasing it. Why, I don`t know. Maybe they don`t want to get the neighborhood upset. Maybe they don`t want people speculating. But this is what we know tonight, whether police want to confirm it publicly or not.

They have honed in on an abandoned home. They have found remains that we believe to be female. There are already reports, according to our sources, that this female is, in fact, that of -- these remains are 25- year-old Erika Whaley, a mother of four little boys.

Now, let`s just take it from there. To Clark Goldband. What more can you tell me, Clark?

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, Nancy, the last time the sister spoke with this 25-year-old, she claims that she heard the boys said that their dad has a new girlfriend, and the boys were allegedly talking about Daddy`s new girlfriend. This was the last time that the sister spoke with this 25-year-old. And she said she hadn`t heard from her since. She also...

GRACE: Stop! Just stop! Stop! Stop! Back it up! Clark Goldband, the sister, who`s just about to join us and take your questions live -- the sister speaks to the four little boys, and they tell her Daddy`s got a new girlfriend?

GOLDBAND: She spoke with this 25-year-old, Nancy, the person missing, Erika Whaley. And she relayed to the sister that when she spoke to the boys, her kids told her that Daddy has a new boyfriend (SIC), according to the sister.

GRACE: Now, wait a minute. This father is the same father of all four little boys, and he`s got...

GOLDBAND: Yes, that is correct.

GRACE: ... a, quote, "new girlfriend"?

GOLDBAND: Yes, he is the father of all four boys, according to her family, Nancy.

GRACE: Joining me right now is the sister of missing mom Erika Whaley. Erika is only 25 years old. She`s got four little boys. Tonight, police honing in on an abandoned home. Remains have been found. We believe they are female remains, and we are waiting for a positive identification.

Sandra Lowrance is with us tonight exclusively. This is Erika`s sister. Sandra, thank you for being with us.

SANDRA LOWRANCE, MISSING WOMAN`S SISTER (via telephone): You`re welcome. Thank you for calling.

GRACE: Sandra, what is this business -- what did your sister, Erika, told you about her four little boys reporting Daddy has a new girlfriend?

LOWRANCE: She was upset and crying, telling me that she was -- (INAUDIBLE) talked to the boys and they were -- all they had to talk about -- she was trying to ask them about how school was and this and that, and that all they wanted to talk about was Daddy`s new girlfriend and her puppy.

GRACE: Daddy`s new girlfriend. Is this the first that Erika had heard about it?

LOWRANCE: She already knew that there was somebody, you know, that he was seeing somebody, but I guess she just didn`t want to accept it, and the boys telling her and talking about her and her puppy or whatever.

GRACE: Sandra -- with me is Erika`s sister, joining us exclusively tonight, Sandra Lowrance. Sandra, how close was it to the time your sister told you what the boys said about the new girlfriend to Erika going missing? How many days was it?

LOWRANCE: I never heard from her again!

GRACE: We are taking your calls. With me, the sister of Erika Whaley, Erika Whaley just 25 years old. Her sister tells us tonight when she last spoke with Erika, Erika got devastating news, news that broke her heart. Her four little boys tell her Daddy`s got a new girlfriend. Sandra never speaks to her sister again.

Tonight, where is 25-year-old Erika Whaley? And what happened in that abandoned house?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body has decomposed. It has not been positively identified yet. There`s a high probability that it is Erika, but again, that has not been confirmed yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A shocking discovery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that Erika Whaley, may possibly be an address on Ocoee Street.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police find remains in a boarded-up home. Are they missing mother of our Erika Whaley`s? Erika disappears as she`s seen getting into a red pick-up truck. Her family never hears from her again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigators came up here and they found a body inside the residence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erika has four young sons between the ages of 3 and 7. Her family says she would never just let birthdays and holidays pass by. Are these remains missing mother of four Erika Whaley?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: For those of you just joining us, we are live in the Chattanooga area. Police race to an abandoned home after what we have been is an anonymous tip. When they get there, they find the remains of a young female. That`s what we are being told tonight. Right now, we`re not even being -- getting confirmation that it is a woman. But our sources are telling us that it is likely the remains of a 25-year-old missing mom of four, Erika Whaley, a gorgeous young girl.

And tonight, her sister is with us. Heart-breaking news Erika got just before she went missing, news from her four little boys who had been with their father, then come home to report all about his new girlfriend and her puppy.

To Woodrow Tripp, former police commander, polygraph expert. Woody, this is all BS, them not telling us that it`s a woman and not identifying it. You know right now that they could make a positive ID based on dental records alone, if they wanted to. We have clothing. We can`t make a positive ID on that. But isn`t it true, Woody Tripp, that you can make a positive ID on dental records alone? Why?

WOODROW TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER: Absolutely, Nancy. The X- rays that dentists take, just as fingerprints are indicative of a certain person, teeth prints are the same. In fact, we did convictions all the time from teeth prints when they`re involved in a crime. So absolutely, teeth can be used as a positive identification.

GRACE: Well, you know, Woody Tripp, I`m sure you recall a very high- profile case that was tried right there in your hometown of Atlanta. The positive ID was based on a glass eyeball alone. So you know, I don`t want to hear any of this business. They`re just not releasing it.

So what`s the tactical reason tonight, Woody, that they`re not releasing a positive ID on these remains?

TRIPP: You know, Nancy, so many times police agencies become so paranoid about someone nitpicking something. But you know, in this case, you know, depending upon how the body was found, I mean, this kind of indicates to me possibly a suicide. It was found at her grandfather`s, depending up on the condition of the body. But I think in this case, they`re just probably paranoid...

GRACE: I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear you. It indicates what, Woody?

TRIPP: Well, Nancy, depending upon the condition of the body, how it was found, I mean, this could be very possibly a suicide. So again...

GRACE: OK, Woody, it`s not a suicide. That much our source are telling us. This is not, repeat, not a suicide. We know that much. We know a lot more than police are confirming tonight.

I want to go back to Clark Goldband. Clark Goldband, it seems to me, based on the father, the hubby, his FaceBook goes from, Oh, I`ve lost the love of my life, you know, due to an argument, and then in just a couple of weeks, he`s suddenly in love, deeply in love with the new girlfriend? Explain.

LOWRANCE: That`s right, Nancy. According to the sister, she claims that about two weeks apart, there were a few messages on FaceBook, the first one saying that he allegedly lost the love of his life and he was supposedly going to go to jail for something he didn`t do, his heart was broken and had to move on. This is according to the sister. But just about two weeks later, the sister claims on FaceBook, he was saying he was falling more and more in love with the new girlfriend each and every day.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, defense attorney, Darryl Cohen, defense attorney out of Atlanta. Put them up, please. Randy Kessler, in the space of two weeks, he suddenly is in love with a new girlfriend? And Mommy has to find out through her little boys. Now she goes missing?

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, love triangles create all sorts of problems, and it`s human nature. And but for human nature, you wouldn`t have a show, we wouldn`t have a job. And people wouldn`t get into trouble.

GRACE: What are you...

KESSLER: It`s human nature.

GRACE: You know what? Randy...

KESSLER: A love triangle. This -- this is another -- another...

GRACE: Randy, I don`t care about whether you have a job, all right? I don`t care whether defense attorneys have a job! You know, in my opinion, all defense attorneys should find something else to do.

KESSLER: I`d love to.

GRACE: But that is neither -- as I was saying, is neither here nor there. I`m asking you about this case, not your job security. Cohen, take a crack at it.

DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I would say that the boyfriend, the father, finding somebody in two weeks -- that`s egregious, and he`s someone they`re going to look at. But that doesn`t mean he killed her, and obviously, we think that she`s been killed at this point.

GRACE: Right, it doesn`t mean he killed her.

We are live, bringing you the latest in the search for this missing mom. As we go to air tonight, we learn police have honed in on an abandoned home in the Chattanooga area. Is it the remains of 25-year-old mom, mom of four little boys, Erika Whaley?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She vanished without a trace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found a body inside the residence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They believe those remains could be missing mother of four Erika Whaley.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s when the investigators came up here, about 1:15 PM today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) happens next, a mystery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Law enforcement has found decomposed remains. They believe those remains could be missing mother of four Erika Whaley, Erika last seen getting into a red pick-up truck. But what happens next, a mystery. Police say they`ve found these remains in a boarded-up home, a home that belonged to Erika`s deceased grandfather. (INAUDIBLE) mother of four Erika Whaley.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Police honing in on an abandoned home. Our reports say that human remains have been found in the abandoned home, female human remains we believe to be those of 25-year-old mom of four Erika Whaley.

Joining us, investigative reporter Nicole Partin there on the scene in Chattanooga. Nicole, explain to me -- she was last seen getting into a red pickup. Is there anybody in her life that owns a red pickup?

NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): Good evening, Nancy. Police are being very tight-lipped about this red pick-up truck. We do know that it was a male driver in the truck. We`re not being told who this truck belonged to.

We are being told that these remains found in this abandoned home -- this home belonged to her deceased grandfather. This home had been boarded up since early March of 2011. Whoever killed her in this home or took her body to this abandoned home knew that this home had been boarded up since March and knew that no one would be back into that home. It had to be someone familiar with her family, familiar enough to know that that home was abandoned.

GRACE: Do you know what kind of vehicle the father of all the children drives?

PARTIN: I don`t know. Police are saying that they cannot release that information.

GRACE: Let`s go to Erika`s sister, Sandra Lowrance. Who in her life, if anyone, Sandra, drives a red pickup?

LOWRANCE: I don`t know that I can answer that question right now.

GRACE: Do you know of a red pickup?

LOWRANCE: I do.

GRACE: So I`ll just ask you point-blank -- and you`re not volunteering it -- is the father of the four boys the owner of a red pickup, or someone in his family?

LOWRANCE: He did at one time, yes.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Pete in Pennsylvania. Hi, Pete. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, Nancy. Let`s just be real. This is probably her. So who knew that the grandpa`s house was abandoned? I mean, it sounds like it`s somebody who knew that they could kill her and put her in the house without anybody knowing. So who knew about that?

GRACE: Very quickly, to Sandra Lowrance. Again, you`re not voluntarily offering me information. I just want to know, did the father of Erika`s four little boys know that that home was abandoned, Sandra?

LOWRANCE: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erika Whaley, may possibly be an address on Ocoee Street. After speaking with her family, we were given the address, and that`s when the investigators came up here and they found a body inside the residence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news, a shocking discovery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found a body inside the residence.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A mystery.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police believe they found a female body in a boarded up abandoned house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body is decomposed, it has not been positively identified yet.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Law enforcement has found decomposed remains.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a high probability that it is Erika.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Could it be Erika?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They believe those remains could be missing mother of four Erika Whaley.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Erika last seen getting into a red pickup truck.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Erika`s family says that she`s a good mother.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They found these remains in a boarded up home.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And she loves her four little boys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We are live and taking your calls. Straight back to the Chattanooga Suburbs tonight. Police hone in on an abandoned home. There they find human remains. Are they those of missing mom of four, Erika Whaley?

We are taking your calls. To Joe in Florida. Hi, what`s your question?

JOE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy, you know, I`m constantly surprised that people who commit these kinds of murders don`t realize how weak and illogical their stories are and how people like police and others think about it in terms of their guilt or innocence. Has this guy volunteered to take a polygraph test?

GRACE: Excellent question, to Nicole Partin, what do we know? Has the father of the four little boys taken a poly?

NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: We`re not being told that he`s taken a polygraph. We are being told that he has been questioned by authorities but they`re not releasing any indication --

GRACE: Whoa, Nicole Partin, I bet he has been questioned. Let me reiterate tonight there are no suspects formally named, there are no persons of interest formally named.

I want to go back out to Clark Goldband. Clark, you stated that the daddy on Facebook have stated that he was going to go to jail for something he didn`t do? And what would that be? Let me guess, it`s connected to the missing mom?

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, that`s a good question, and this is information that we`ve received from the sister. And she claims that in the span of two weeks, the first time he said he has lost the love of his life, he`s going to go to jail for something he didn`t do. And then just two weeks later he says he`s falling more and more in love every day, according to the sister.

And there`s one more thing here, Nancy, that I want to point out. The tip here was anonymous and it came through CrimeStoppers so someone knew something that led law enforcement into that abandoned house.

GRACE: OK, Clark, I appreciate all that background, but that`s not the question that I asked. I`m going to go to the sister of Erika Whaley. She`s taking your calls tonight in an effort to find 25-year-old Erika, the mother of four little boys. Police honing in on that abandoned home. But right now we`re waiting for a confirmation on the identification of those remains.

Sandra Lowrance is with us. Sandra, why was the daddy -- why was he saying he was going to jail for something he didn`t do? What was he charged with?

SANDRA LOWRANCE, SISTER OF MISSING MOM, ERIKA WHALEY: Two accounts of aggravated assault and aggravated kidnapping.

GRACE: On who?

LOWRANCE: My sister, Erika Whaley.

GRACE: So she goes missing just before the court date, according to the timing that I`ve got, Joe Gomez.

JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KTRH RADIO: That`s right, Nancy. It`s very bizarre, isn`t it? Very coincidental. Now what had happened why this guy is charge with aggravated assault, Nancy, is because he apparently assaulted Erika in a car. Then she tried to jump out of the car and he hit the gas and he was driving faster. Thank god a police officer stopped them in time.

GRACE: Joe, Joe, you know what, I respect you. But did I just hear you say bizarre and coincidental? Did you just say that?

GOMEZ: Yes.

GRACE: Well, I think you`ve been reporting crime stories long enough to know that there is no coincidence in criminal law. I`m going to let you think about that for just a few moments, Gomez.

To Cheryl Arutt -- excuse me, Sheryl Eric, clinical forensic psychologist joining us out of L.A. tonight.

Cheryl, thank you for being with us. Sheryl, the leading cause of death amongst, for instance, pregnant women is homicide. At the hands of their partner. Tonight we learn not only did daddy have a new girlfriend and mommy finds out through her four little boys` visit with daddy, but also he was looking at a court date where he allegedly had already inflicted violence on mommy.

CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Pretty fishy, isn`t it, Nancy?

GRACE: Yes, it stinks. I think it`s more than just fishy, I think that it is -- I think it`s very evidentiary in this case. Very probative, (INAUDIBLE) police should be looking at. Weigh in, Cheryl?

ARUTT: Well, he has a history, from what I`ve just heard, of assaulting her, he`s looking at a court date where he`s going to be culpable. This is a situation where it certainly sounds like a documented history of domestic violence with police involvement in the past and he`s about to be asked to take responsibility for that. And very often, batterers cannot be alone. They -- OK, so --

GRACE: Out to the lines, Mary in Maryland. Hi, Mary, what`s your question, dear?

MARY, CALLER FROM MARYLAND: Hey, Nancy, I`m just curious, did Erika have a cell phone and if so did cops ever look at her phone records to see who she was communicating with?

GRACE: Excellent question, Mary. Excellent question.

What do we know, Nicole Partin? Does she have a cell phone and has it been located?

PARTIN: We`re not being told that, Nancy. Unfortunately, authorities are being so tight lipped about this. Those details are not being released to us.

GRACE: Everyone, the tip line, 4236-983-333, four little boys wondering tonight where is mommy. Tonight, as we go to air, we learned cops hone in on this abandoned home. We are waiting for a positive I.D. of the remains reportedly found in a home.

Right now I want to tell you about another story. A wife wants to save her marriage and insists on marriage counseling. In the middle of one of the sessions, the husband who was a colonel in the Air Force, blurts out he`s having an affair and has no intentions of calling it off.

Does she cry? Does she throw a fit? No, she goes and visits the alleged mistress and shoots her three times point blank in the face.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say Shannon Griffin called her husband after her trip to Missouri. She wanted to tell us all about what she had done, allegedly murdered his mistress. The former NASA employee took matters into her own hands, police say, after her husband revealed in a therapy session that he`d been having an affair.

His mistress, a Missouri psychiatrist, who`s found dead Friday. She had been shot in the face three times at her Glendale home.

Griffin now facing a first-degree murder charge and held with no bond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Bonnie Druker, on the story, they had been married for years, he`s an Air Force colonel, Roscoe Griffin, who blurts out in the middle of marital counseling he`s having an affair and he`s not going to leave the mistress?

Bonnie Druker, Nancy Grace Producer: Exactly, Nancy. There was no way he was going to leave the mistress, so the wife obviously got very upset, a few hours later, she goes to the mistress` home, rings the doorbell, the mistress lets her in, she`s within four feet from the mistress and fires three shots, Nancy.

GRACE: OK, Bonnie, what I don`t understand is, A, how far away does the mistress live? How do I know that -- here`s a shot of the wife. They had been married for years and years. Had grown children. How did she know how to find the mistress? How does she know who the mistress was? And how do we know she`s the one that shot the mistress? Break it down.

DRUKER: OK, Nancy, we understand that she did know who the mistress was. Again, in counseling, the husband -- they had a whole big therapy session and the husband said he was not going to leave the mistress. And that`s when the wife went to her house.

GRACE: Well, it`s my understanding there was an I.D. of the wife. She was let into the home, started a conversation with the victim. And suddenly, out of nowhere, pulls out a gun and opens fire. Then calls her husband and says, there - there you go.

Out to the lines, Dave in Florida. Hi, Dave, what`s your question?

DAVE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Yes, I was wondering just kind of like Mary Winkler, could this -- could she get away with this? Could it be sort of like the husband`s fault --

GRACE: Wait a minute. You`re talking about the preacher`s wife? He asked her to wear high platform heels during sex so she (INAUDIBLE) the shotgun? Yes. You know what, Dave, you`re right. You`re absolutely right, she could walk. She looks like somebody`s grandma. Who`s going to put her in jail?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say a woman called to tell her husband after allegedly shooting his mistress, honey, I murdered your mistress. Police say Griffin found out about the affair in a therapy session with her husband.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Honey, I murdered your mistress. That`s what police say a woman called to tell her husband after allegedly shooting his mistress. The mistress, a Missouri psychiatrist, was found dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Darryl Cohen, Randy Kessler -- and go ahead and get our shrink Cheryl Arutt as well, joining us out of L.A.

All right, Randy Kessler, it`s going to be hard to get a conviction on this woman. She`s going to have temporary insanity defense. I guarantee you. She`s going to have a rage defense that would reduce it down to voluntary manslaughter and she looks likes somebody`s grandma.

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. Well, I mean, sanity and rationality go out the window when you have situations like this, you find out your spouse is having an affair. People do crazy things. That`s why they call it crazy. And you`re going to have some jurors that are sympathetic. I mean you can`t help that.

GRACE: What about it, Cohen?

DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think that she -- the first thing I would do is have her with her psychiatrist. I would set up the insanity defense, temporary insanity, insane delusions, make absolutely sure that she`s done.

GRACE: OK, both of you are complete bald faced liars, because I know the first thing you`d do as lawyers, you know, run out and get one of those little doily things and put around her neck, and put her hair back in a bun, maybe (INAUDIBLE), make it look every grayer. Yes, I know what you two would do.

Cheryl, the insanity defense, temporary insanity, may actually work here. What about it?

ARUTT: Well, one would hope that she would have had time while she was planning all of this and driving across the state lines to do this to have time to take a deep breath and cool down instead of doing this. Her saying she was protecting him from evil and all of that, that could potential be used as possible evidence that she went temporarily insane and thought this woman was evil and she needed to protect her family. But it`s a stretch.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Nancy in Texas. Hi, Nancy, what is your question?

NANCY, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hello. I was just wondering, hello, Nancy, is there any DNA?

GRACE: Is there any DNA? Well, in this case, I don`t know that they`re going to need DNA if they`ve got an eyewitness. But as far as DNA on the handgun itself, what about it, Woody?

WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: Nancy, I don`t see where DNA per se would be relevant in this. Because this is certainly a crime of passion. Even I as a law enforcement officer have to admit to that. It will be a good case for the illustrious defense attorneys to come up with an insanity plea.

GRACE: Also, don`t we have the mistress` mother, making a photo lineup ID?

To Victoria Taft, host of "Victoria Taft Show" joining us out of Portland.

Victoria, isn`t there an eyewitness to this that positively identifies the wife as the shooter?

VICTORIA TAFT, HOST, VICTORIA TAFT SHOW: Absolutely, in fact it`s believed that the mother answered the door allowing in Shannon Griffin into her house and then watched as Shannon Griffin pumped three bullets into her face -- into her daughter`s face. So yes, there`s an eyewitness, absolutely. This woman is dead arrived, she`s caught.

GRACE: And there`s a way to corroborate her story.

To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, joining us tonight out of Philadelphia. Dr. Manion, if the victim was shot pointblank, at pointblank range, wouldn`t there be, as is -- layman`s term, slang, burn marks around the bullet? So that would corroborate the eyewitness story. Explain.

DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Yes, There would be. If the gun is close enough to the face, you may get powder marks and you`d certainly get pieces of gunpowder which will burn the face, called stiffling. We can also tell obviously where the entrance wounds are and exit wounds.

And then when she was arrested, hopefully she had the gun with her, but they can always do a swab of her hand then look for gunshot residue and prove that her hand had held the gun that had been fired also.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: You know, what I just said is true, Woody -- Dr. Bill Manion, reporting about gunshot residue test. But so often cops are processing the scene, they`re doing a million and one things, and by the time they get around to doing the GSR, gun residue test, the perp has very simply just wipe their hands, they`ve gone to the bathroom, washed their hands, it`s really easy to get rid of.

There are particles, it`s like a mist, you can`t even see it with the naked eye. Gunshot residue can be washed off or even wiped off your hands.

TRIPP: Well, it can, Nancy. But the one thing that`s really in our favor is the weather. And I would be willing to say that she had a jacket, some type of long-sleeved type shirt. That stiffling is also going to go on to that. In addition to the hands that blowback is going to go on to her clothes. So there`s other areas for the gunshot residue powder to be.

GRACE: Well, unleash the lawyers as well as our shrink tonight, Cheryl Arutt, clinical forensic psychologist, joining us out of L.A. Randy Kessler, Darryl Cohen, defense attorneys joining us out of Atlanta.

You know, what`s going to get her stone cold solid, Darryl, is that as soon as she did it, she calls her husband and went, yes, there you go, there`s your mistress, dead. I did it. That completely rebuts any claim of insanity, Darryl Cohen?

COHEN: No, I disagree, Nancy, I think that that shows even more that she had temporary insanity. She was doing things that a person should not do --

GRACE: Put him up.

COHEN: -- if they`re thinking what they should be thinking.

GRACE: No, no, Darryl.

COHEN: Absolutely. Sorry, I disagree.

GRACE: A person shouldn`t do if they`re not an idiot, not if they`re not a cold-blooded killer. Plus she had a ways to drive to get there, Kessler. This wasn`t right next door. And then afterwards, she was caught in another state fleeing the jurisdiction, captured 2 1/2 hours later in Kansas, driving along just like everybody else, no sign of insanity whatsoever.

She was arrested without any incident. She knew what she had done, reportedly telling a trooper, there were two unloaded handguns in her car at the time -- Kessler.

KESSLER: Right. But temporary insanity doesn`t have to be five seconds. It can temporary, meaning a day, six months, that this is not -- we`re talking about -- I`m not talking about six months, we`re talking about a very brief time period, this is a whole event, one event.

GRACE: All right.

KESSLER: Plus what is the -- what is the husband going to gain? He`s going to gain, she`s out of the way. He doesn`t want to tell the truth so he`s probably going to -- he`s going to hedge -- if he`s going to talk about it he`s going to talk about --

GRACE: Why do I care about what the husband does?

KESSLER: Because you`re talking about him being the corroborating witness. That she called him --

GRACE: No, I`m not.

KESSLER: Didn`t she call him and say --

GRACE: You mean as far as her phone call? He`s already told that to police. That`s already out there. He can`t back out of that, she can`t back out of that. As you`re saying, Randy, yes, it could be attacked in that the husband has motive to lie, but they can confirm that phone call through phone records. And for all I know there could have been another witness to that phone call. I don`t know the ins and outs of that phone call, but I know that phone records are going to corroborate it.

To Cheryl Arutt. Cheryl, the phone call that she makes to her husband, what does that mean to you as far as temporary insanity.

ARUTT: Well, it means that she knows what she did. It means, I think, that she`s saying, oh, you want to leave me for this woman, well, no, I`ve taken her from you and you can`t have her anymore. And she knew exactly what that meant.

GRACE: Teresa in Ohio, hi, dear, what`s your question?

TERESA, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi. I have a question and a comment.

GRACE: OK.

TERESA: I was wondering how long the couple was married? Does she have any trouble with the law in the past? Was the gun registered? And then I`ll have a comment.

GRACE: All right. I know that they were married for 20 years.

Bonnie, I believe that the guns were registered.

And what was the last question, Teresa in Ohio?

TERESA: If she had any past record with the law.

GRACE: No. She had no past record with the law. And what`s your comment?

TERESA: My comment is, there are thousands of people that want to get justice for Ryan McNeal Green, and you are the only one to get to the bottom of his suspicious death, Nancy. We are begging for your help.

GRACE: Ryan McNeal Green. I`m on it. Thank you, Teresa in Ohio.

Quick break, everyone. It was my honor to receive a media award from a fantastic organization Child Help. Founded by Sara O`Meara and Yvonne Fedderson. The nation`s largest nonprofit that deals with the prevention and treatment of child abuse and neglect. Fellow honoree, Kathy Lee Gifford and I were joined by John and Lisa Hurley, Michael Bolton, "Hell`s Kitchen`s" Scott Leibfried.

To all of you and to Child Help, thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The former NASA employee took matters into her own hands, police say, after her husband revealed in a therapy session that he`d been having an affair. She wanted to tell him all about what she had done, allegedly murdered his mistress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s take a look at the husband, Air Force Colonel Roscoe Griffin. He reveals in the middle of marital counseling to a shrink that he`s having an affair, and has no intention of ending it.

All right. Right there a lot of female jurors are going to go yes, there`s motive for murder, Darryl Cohen.

COHEN: Yes, there are. And they`re going to say that the way this woman looks, the defendant, the way she`s acted all her life, that she did what she should have done.

GRACE: What about it, Kessler?

KESSLER: I agree with -- I agree with Darryl. Absolutely. You know this is a person who had reason to dislike that person. If I am on the jury, I`ve got a hard time.

GRACE: Yes, well, reason to dislike is not a defense.

Everyone, let`s stop. Tonight we remember MLK, the great civil rights leader, losing his life in the pursuit of justice. The youngest man ever to receive the Nobel Peace Prize after leading the march in Washington and his "I Have a Dream" speech.

Tonight, our country and the world honors Dr. Martin Luther King.

Let`s stop and remember Army Sgt. Timothy Padgett, 28, DeFuniak Springs, Florida, killed Afghanistan. An elite Green Beret, awarded National Defense Service Medal, Special Forces Tab, Army Service Ribbon.

A firefighter paramedic remembered as one who would do anything to help others. Loved outdoors, photography, motorcycles, nickname, Smiling Tim. Leaves behind parents Glenda and Tommy, sister Serena, brother Rex, daughter Summer.

Timothy Padgett, American hero.

Thanks to our guests and especially to you. A special good night from 4-year-old Joe Lee, daughter of Randy Kessler. Isn`t she beautiful? She has a birthday on Thursday.

Happy birthday, sweet pea.

And happy birthday to one of our stars, Ellie. She has been with me since CourtTV days. Loves shoes, you`d never know, you never get to see her feet, the Iowa Hawkeyes, and her husband, Claus.

Happy birthday, beautiful Ellie.

And happy birthday to another star, Sovy.

Happy birthday -- 11th birthday to Georgia crime fighter Elizabeth. Loves singing, dancing, writing songs, time with friends, and mommy and daddy. Now there`s a beautiful princess.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END