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White House to Oppose Keystone Pipeline; Investigation Into Cruise Ship Accident Continues; Chris Dodd Interview; Romney Slams Gingrich over Jobs Claim, Court-Ordered Abortion Stopped; Trademark Beyonce's Baby's Name; Widespread Protest Over Anti-Piracy Bills; Airmen Survive Crash, Tell Harrowing Tale

Aired January 18, 2012 - 15:00   ET


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Meantime, top of the hour, watch this. Unfolding right now, questions about why the Italian cruise ship captain is out of jail.

And a day without the Web, sort of. And Iran's toy drones are U.S.-bound.

Let's play "Reporter Roulette" here.

And Matthew Chance, we're going to begin with you in Meta, Italy -- Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the extremely pretty coastal town Meta near Sorrento, where the captain of the stricken Costa Concordia has been placed under house arrest pending charges including manslaughter and abandoning his ship.

Prosecutors have expressed concern that the captain, Francesco Schettino, wasn't kept behind bars, especially after those shocking recordings emerged of his exchanged with the Italian coast guard during which he had to be ordered to get back on his vessel to oversee the rescue effort.

That has of course has outraged many. But here in his hometown, there appears to be some sympathy for the captain's plight.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He is a good father, a good husband, of course. As a captain, I haven't had the pleasure to sail with him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): They're a great family. He's a great person. They have a great daughter. Great people.


CHANCE: Well, this is the narrow little street where Captain Schettino lives. In fact, it's this door over here where he's actually in house arrest. You can see the bell has his name on it. But if you ring it, there's no answer.

It seems that the captain who sailed his ship onto the rocks, but got himself to safety is, for the moment, staying out of sight.

BALDWIN: Matthew Chance, thank you for us in Meta, Italy.

Next on "Reporter Roulette," Amber Lyon is in Los Angeles.

And we're talking about today several sites, Amber, many of use, they are blacked out in protest today. Explain to us what has shut them down and what are they hoping to prove?

AMBER LYON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're protesting against some legislation that is going Congress right now that they believe could give the U.S. government the power to censor these Web sites.

What they're trying to prove, they're trying to show Internet users that this is what this could look like if SOPA or PIPA went through today. Most notably, if you look at Wikipedia today, you go there, you will not be able to access that site. Also you head to Google, you will see a black censored bar across the top -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: What is your sense that any of what we're seeing today, that blacked out bars, et cetera, will actually have an impact on the future of these two bills in Congress?

LYON: Well, it already is having an impact. An aide told CNN that they believe this protest has been so intense that the Senate may not even vote to take up PIPA, which before had bipartisan support. We're also seeing hundreds of Web sites, blogs, social media users black out the Internet today, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You and I were just talking recently about your piece on Anonymous, the documentary that aired this past weekend about the hacker collective.

You talked to a lot of Anons. I know it's normally Anonymous shutting down the Web sites, right, but they do it illegally. Have you talked to any of these Anons? How do they feel about what is going on today?

LYON: I have talked to several Anons. And they can't speak for everyone, but they are say some of the leaders of Op Blackout, which was the force behind today's movement.

They say they're very pleased with all of the support. There was some thought that some of these Anons would virtually go after supporters of SOPA and PIPA. We have not seen that quite yet, but the day is still young, and these Anons tell me they're going to fight this out until the legislation appears because there is a lot of gray areas within this idea and this collective, but one thing that is black and white, that is how much Anonymous detests any type of Internet censorship.

And they see this legislation as giving the U.S. government the power to eventually censor sites like YouTube and Facebook. You look at the other side, the other side says this is protecting intellectual property, also protecting creatively and jobs, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Amber Lyon, thank you.

Next on "Reporter Roulette," two words we don't often hear together, diplomacy and Iran.

CNN's Chris Lawrence is live at the Pentagon.

Chris, it sounds like Secretary of defense Leon Panetta did inject a little bit of optimism today with regard to U.S. relations with Iran.


He said basically that as far as he's concerned, there's still a possibility of a diplomatic solution with Iran. He was responding to a question about an Iranian report that Iranian officials had received a letter from President Obama requesting direct talks. Secretary Panetta did not verify that there even is a letter or what was said, but he did say the door to diplomacy with Iran is still open as far as he's concerned.

Other the other hand, he also said that U.S. is ready and willing to use military action if needed -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Speaking of Iran, a story that I'm sure that the president doesn't find funny, I would imagine, these toy drones being sent from Iran to the White House. Please explain.

LAWRENCE: It is certainly not a belated Christmas gift, that's for sure.

We all remember the drone that went down in Iran last month. Iran made a big deal about it, put it on TV, all that. Well, now Iran says it's going to send a toy drone, a replica, a toy drone back to the U.S. to President Obama. Remember, after the drone went down, the president came out and formally requested that Iran return the drone.

At the time, U.S. officials like Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said they didn't expect Iran to give it back, but now Iran is sort of tongue in cheek sending a toy version back to the president as well as putting these toys on sale in their country -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Chris Lawrence at the Pentagon, Chris, thank you.

That's your "Reporter Roulette" here for this Wednesday.

Brand-new developments now in a horrific story out of Georgia. A little girl disappears from her neighborhood. Later she is found brutally murdered. We are now learning exactly how this predator found her, lured her, and what happened during the 7-year-old's final moments. Marc Klaas is standing by live. He knows the pain here of losing a child all too well, will join me live next.

Plus, we are just getting breaking news out of Washington. Be right back.


BALDWIN: We have some breaking news here out of Washington. The story really all boils down to what was supposed to be a 1,700-mile pipeline, the Keystone XL pipeline from TransCanada basically going from Alberta in Canada all the way cutting through the midsection of the country and ending in the Gulf through Texas.

We have some news from the administration, specifically the State Department.

Want to let chief White House correspondent Jessica Yellin break the news, which is what, Jess?


The State Department has issued the statement finally now saying they have officially decided they will not approve the permit for the XL pipeline, and that the president has concurred, agreed with this decision, essentially because they felt they do not have the adequate time in a 60-day window to make a good -- that is not in the national interests in the 60-day window to make this decision and that this does not, in their opinion, preclude another permit application.

In other words, given more time, they could approve this over -- they could approve a permit in the future. So they could have another shot at this down the line.

Let me talk just a moment about the politics of this, Brooke, and why the administration would do this now. It's generally my sense from sources I have spoken to that Democrats feel they have taken the hit for this already when they delayed a decision back in the fall.


YELLIN: And so making this announcement now or a few days -- a month from now doesn't really change their politics.

Gas prices will not go up as a result of delaying this because there is no oil flowing through it right now anyway. The number of jobs, as Ali was discussing, is up for debate, 2,500 vs. 20,000. It depends who you want to source. There are a lot of communities along that route who have objected to it, and it doesn't necessarily break down along Republican-Democratic lines, in their view, it depends where you live whether you object to it or not.

A lot of young people object to it, and young people are an important constituency for the president in election year. In other words, take the hit on it now, get it dismissed with before the State of the Union and then move on to other issues and other politics after Tuesday.

BALDWIN: Sure, and I'm glad you did point out, of course, obviously the role politics and this year specifically is playing into this whole issue. Do want to point out we should be hearing from the Republican side here because folks like Speaker Boehner, Eric Cantor, their argument at least thus far that I have read is that this would create jobs, but again as you point out -- there's live pictures of the room. We will be taking that live.

As you point out, Jessica, and Ali Velshi, you as well, all these different sort of wild numbers when it comes to the jobs created.

But, Ali, I want to ask you specifically, you're Canadian and you know more about oil sands, probably, than most folks, and from what I read about the negative in these environmental groups -- and I remember Daryl Hannah getting arrested at the Twitter over all of this. They say this is dirty, dirty stuff. What have you found? You have seen this stuff in person.


ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I have been up there. It's really quite a sight to see.

There are two environmental issues here. One is -- and not everybody knows this. The one that a lot of people think it is, is that if you pump oil through pipelines, the pipelines could and have leaked in the past and it could into the aquifer. We already established that going through the aquifer was not a good idea. They should have rerouted this pipeline.


BALDWIN: You're talking about Nebraska.

VELSHI: Right. They were going to reroute it, anyway. You never want to go through sensitive areas with oil.

But we pipe oil all over the place. The real underlying protest here, which is what Daryl Hannah and many others have been involved in, is that to get oil out of Alberta, which is the biggest reserve of oil in the side of the world and in some cases could compete with Saudi Arabia, the oil is in the sand. It's called oil sand.

I have been there. I have held it in my hand. The sand is muddy with oil. You have to boil water using hydrogen and basically melt the oil out of the sand. It's a very complicated process that I'm oversimplifying right now, but that uses a lot of energy and has traditionally been more polluting than drilling a hole straight into the ground and having oil gush out.

It's not just that the oil could spill in the pipeline, which Jessica is right. People in local communities are upset with that. But that can be overcome through technology and all sorts of things and putting the pipeline in less dangerous areas or less sensitive areas.

The issue is we are buying what a lot of Americans think are dirty types of oil from Canada, and that's what has people annoyed. I just want to reach over here for a second, Brooke. I want to show it to you because I have got a bottle of it that I brought up from when I was in Canada.


BALDWIN: Do you just keep this stuff on your desk?

VELSHI: I clearly haven't had need to open it for some time.

But basically here it is. This is oil sand. I don't know how well you can see this, but basically I can crumble it, and it's sand, and it basically looks like you're holding tar. You have to get the oil out of this. But if you smell it, it's oil. What happens is when you process it, it gets put into these different constituent elements, different types of chemicals.

This one here is -- looks like crude oil. You do all that work and you get crude oil. Then you distill into properly functioning oil, and that is what you normally get. The process of getting from this gunk into this little area is what we think of as being dirty polluting. And that is what is behind all of this.

BALDWIN: So are you saying -- because we had -- the same day we talked to the guy from TransCanada, we had Daryl Hannah on the show and she pointed out anecdotally all these different instances with previous pipelines, leaks, spills. That's part of their concern.

But by showing me what you just showed me, is this bad as stuff as some of these groups make out?

VELSHI: It depends where you come from. If you were in the Gulf of Mexico as you and I were when the oil spill happened, that was the worst thing that happened to you possibly in the entire time you have lived there.

I don't want to diminish what it is. The oil industry has not done the world's best job of saying we can clean up any spill as fast as it happens, as efficiently as we'd like to. I think, as Jessica pointed out, there's truth on both sides of this.

Politics has muddied it, but we are big consumers of oil. We import most of our oil. Most of it comes from Canada. And other people are willing to buy that Canadian oil, in particular the Chinese.

From a buyer's perspective, it may not be the best idea to say, we're not building the pipeline extension.

BALDWIN: OK. Ali Velshi, thank you. Jessica, I will go back to you just for a final thought.

As I'm glancing down at the State Department note we got, it says not to serve the national interests. That is the determination as of now. Final thought to you.

YELLIN: The president himself has put out a statement now, and if I just could read just a bit of that quickly.

He has now said that he believes that it was the rushed and arbitrary deadline insisted on by congressional Republicans that prevented a full assessment of the pipeline's impact.

He agrees with the secretary of state's assessment that this be denied. And he criticized -- he says he's disappointed Republicans in Congress forced this decision. But he remains committed to finding other ways to improve domestic oil and natural gas production. And he emphasizes that both of those are up in his administration.

We will continue to cover this. We have more coming up later on "SIT ROOM."


BALDWIN: Jessica, thank you.

Forgive me for interrupting you.

Speaking of Republicans in Congress, here you go, House Speaker John Boehner. Let's listen.



REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The president was given the authority to block this project only and only if he believes it's not in the national interests of the United States.

Is it not in the national interests to create tens of thousands of jobs here in America with private investment? Is it not in the national interests to get energy resources from an ally like Canada, as opposed to some countries in the Middle East?

The president has said he will do anything that he can to create jobs. Today, that promise was broken. The president expedited the approval of the Solyndra loan project, but won't approve a project that's been under review for over three years.

Yesterday, the president's own jobs council said the energy pipeline projects like this one can create hundreds of thousands of American jobs. The unions support it. The states along the proposed route support it. And it has bipartisan support here in the Congress of the United States.

And, yet, the president decided to reject it anyway. The president won't stand up to his political base, even in the name of creating American jobs. And now Canada is going to have to look to other nations, like China, to sell its oil reserves to.

Listen, the president's policies are making the American economy worse, rather than better. And this latest decision is just but the latest example. I will just say this. This is not the end of the fight. Republicans in Congress will continue to push this because it's good for our country and it's good for our economy and it's good for the American people, especially those who are looking for work.

REP. TIM GRIFFIN (R), ARKANSAS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Tim Griffin, Arkansas 2.

Today, President Obama has --


BALDWIN: All right, so you just heard from a fairly fiery Speaker John Boehner essentially disagreeing, saying the fight is not over. This would have created countless jobs for Americans who very much so need them. Our unemployment rate still sitting at 8.5 percent.

Let me know what you think about this whole debate. Send me a tweet @BrookeBCNN.

More news for you on the other side of the break.


BALDWIN: I want to take you back to a case that we covered pretty extensively just last month, the crime police called horrendous, they called very calculated, the kidnapping and murder of 7-year-old Jorelys Rivera in Georgia.

We're now learning exactly how horrendous and how calculated this crime really was. A 20-year-old apartment maintenance man has just pleaded guilty to murdering this little girl. And the child's family, they were sitting there in court. You see them wiping away tears watching as Ryan Brunn told the judge in graphic detail how he lured their little girl into a nearby empty apartment with a photographic of her missing roller skate.


RYAN BRUNN, DEFENDANT: Was going to lure her in for a sexual conduct with myself here.

Never had a idea of killing a child in my life. I was just so terrified and scared that I didn't want her to go home and tell her mom or her dad on me. And I just -- I cut her.


BALDWIN: Didn't want her to tell her mom or dad on me, he says.

He slashed her throat. But that didn't kill her. So then he described beating her to death with her missing roller skate and crushing her lifeless body in a nearby trash compactor. And then he sits in court in English and then Spanish and he says he is sorry.


BRUNN: I would like to apologize for everything I have done, and I do deserve everything that you're about to give me. Lo siento, in Spanish. Sorry.


BALDWIN: What is most clear now about the murder of Jorelys Rivera is that Ryan Brunn is a predator.

I want to bring in Marc Klaas. He founded the Klaaskids Foundation after his own daughter Polly was abducted and murdered.

And I'm sure, I'm sure the words, Marc, sorry to this grieving family rings hollow.

MARC KLAAS, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Yes, Brooke, this was so calculated. He knew when he lured that young girl into that room that she was going to tell her mother.

He knew that he was going to kill her in advance of any of this. This guy sounds very much like a sexually sadistic psychopath, just as the individual that killed my child. And there is no real remorse. Putting him away forever is easily the best thing that could happen out of all of this.

BALDWIN: Marc, I want to play just a little bit more of the sound from inside the -- actually, this is part of the confession. This is when Brunn says he actually found one of Jorelys' roller skates as he was cleaning out one of the apartment buildings when he decided to lure this 7-year-old in for sex. Take a listen.


BRUNN: I photographed it on my phone and showed it to her and asked her if it was hers. And I asked her...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You photographed the skate?

BRUNN: Yes, sir.


BRUNN: And I told her to come with me and I will get it for her. And she came.


BALDWIN: So, again, as you point out, does this again sound to you -- this is typical predator behavior? And if so, how?

KLAAS: Well, it's a variation on a theme.

It's the lure theme. It's the come help me find my puppy, I can make you famous, do you want a cookie? Predators use it across the board, and it's very, very effective in moving children into these situations that they're unable to get themselves out of.

BALDWIN: So when you hear this typical lure tactic, what can you tell other parents? Sadly, tragedies like these give us opportunities to talk to parents and tell them, what do you tell your child so they do not -- they don't fall victim?

KLAAS: Absolutely. These are very good points.

First of all, people have to understand that the vast majority of citizens would never do anything to harm a child. Even men would go well out of their way to do something to try to help a child in need.

But, having said that, there are some rules that need to be followed, and it's not really about stranger danger, because the vast majority of victimizations are perpetrated by somebody that the victim already knows. So what needs to happen is children need to tell their parents where they're going to be at all times, that when they're outside, certainly, they should be with at least one other person, that they should trust their feelings, their instinct.

If something feels bad, then it is bad, and they should put distance between themselves and whatever that is. And then they should realize that they can go to other adults, even strangers, to help them in difficult situations. They can always go to a woman. They can go to other kids. They can go to police officers or firefighters in uniform.

In a retail situation, they can go to store clerks or they can go to security guards.

And, truly, almost any man will help them out of a difficult situation. There are also technological solutions to this. Every child over 10 should have their own cell phone so that they can have that 24/7 connection with the child even when the child is not with them.

BALDWIN: OK. Have a cell phone --

KLAAS: GPS devices are -- I'm sorry --


BALDWIN: Because you can track the child.

KLAAS: Go on. Sure, GPS devices are another solution. You can Breadcrumb your child. You can geofencing around your child. You can also get -- smartphone applications that will show you where predators are within your community. So there are ways to keep your children safe in our society, and we shouldn't have to worry too much that every person we're going to see is going to be like this particular monster, because they just are not.

BALDWIN: He is a monster. That's a perfect way to explain it. Hopefully if we at least reach one parent with this conversation, I feel like we've done our job.

Marc Klaas, thank you so much.

Now this.


MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A congressman taking responsibility or taking credit for helping create jobs is like Al Gore taking credit for the Internet.


BALDWIN: Mitt Romney lashing Gingrich on the trail, making headlines acknowledging that he is in the 15 percent tax bracket. The Republican frontrunner, though, still hasn't revealed his tax returns, and one of Romney's supporters is actually giving him some very public advice. We're live in South Carolina in 70 seconds.


BALDWIN: Mitt Romney going on the attack today in South Carolina not on taxes but on jobs. Jim Acosta is live for us in Rockville, South Carolina, for "AMERICA'S CHOICE 2012" update here.

And Jim, so you have Mitt Romney taking on Newt Gingrich today. His words --


BALDWIN: I guess, hoping to blunt any kind of late surge Gingrich could get.

ACOSTA: Brooke, that is absolutely right. I think what we're starting to see right now is sort of a tightening in South Carolina that perhaps even the Romney campaign did not anticipate until the last 24 hours or so. They have put out top Romney surrogates in the last couple of days --

BALDWIN: We're with you. We're here -- we're listening.

ACOSTA: Hey, guys, I'm hearing some sound in my ear of Mitt Romney. Are we playing that right now or am I on the air?

BALDWIN: You're on the air, Jim Acosta. Keep going.

ACOSTA: OK. All right, I'll keep talking. Let me go back to what I was saying. There is really a new sign that this race is tightening in South Carolina. Consider what the Romney campaign has done the last 24 hours, they have put out some new Web videos featuring some of their top surrogates going after Newt Gingrich, and then listen to Mitt Romney go after the former speaker in a speech earlier this morning in Spartanburg, South Carolina.

Keep in mind that Romney normally just spends all of his time going after the president, does not talk about his rivals, that changed in a stumped speech earlier this morning. Here's what he had to say.


ROMNEY: The speaker the other day at the debate was talking about how he created millions of jobs when he was working with the Reagan administration. Well, he'd been in Congress two years when Ronald Reagan came to office. That'd be like saying 435 congressmen were all responsible for those jobs.

Government doesn't create jobs. It's the private sector that creates jobs. Congressmen taking responsibility or taking credit for helping create jobs is like Al Gore taking credit for the Internet.


ACOSTA: Now not to be outdone, the Gingrich campaign is putting a very tough mailer on Mitt Romney right now here in South Carolina, going after his past support in favor of abortion rights, so a very tough mailer from the Gingrich campaign. And then Newt Gingrich earlier today made some very tough comments about Mitt Romney, saying that he expects the Romney campaign to play things very dirty over the next four days.

He even said that this date can't be bought, Newt, saying that he's counting on people power to win the day on Saturday, in the South Carolina primary, saying that Mitt Romney cannot buy this primary -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let me take you back to a conversation that we talked about yesterday, the tax returns, right? We were talking about how Newt Gingrich is anticipated to release his, what, was it by Thursday? At least certainly by the primary, and he wants, you know, Romney to do the same.

But now it turns out one of Romney's biggest supporters, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, he's coming out today offering Mitt Romney a little advice. What is that?

ACOSTA: That is right. I mean, you know, the Gingrich campaign is having a field day with this issue. I mean earlier today Newt Gingrich reiterated his support for what he's now calling the Mitt Romney flat tax.

Newt Gingrich already had a 15 percent flat tax for all Americans in his economic plans so when Newt -- when Mitt Romney came out yesterday and said he pays essentially a 15 percent effective tax rate on his income, Newt Gingrich just sort of could not resist.

But earlier this morning on the "Today" show, one of Mitt Romney's top surrogates, if not his very top surrogate in this campaign, somebody who's been talked about as a potential running mate, said Mitt Romney should produce those tax returns. Here's Chris Christie.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: What I would say to Governor Romney is, if you have tax returns to put out, you know, you should put them out, you put them out sooner rather than later, because it's always better, in my view, to have complete disclosure, and especially when you're the frontrunner.


ACOSTA: Now Gingrich is talking about releasing his own tax returns tomorrow. He already told reporters earlier today when asked this question, because obviously the question was going to be raised, what tax rate do you pay, Speaker Gingrich, and he said it's around 31 percent.

And, Brooke, he says the campaign is going to produce those documents, those tax returns tomorrow to prove that. So it will come out tomorrow, which means that this issue will last yet another 24 hours.

BALDWIN: Yet another day. Yet another day.

ACOSTA: Which is exactly what he wants.

BALDWIN: Part of the cycle.

Jim Acosta, we'll be talking about it tomorrow. Thank you so much, there's a crowd there in South Carolina.

Coming up, I want you to hear what one judge decided. A pregnant woman with schizophrenia should be ward into a hospital for an abortion and then be sterilized. That decision has been turned upside down now. We've got more on that.

Plus Beyonce and Jay-Z's daughter hasn't even been in the world for two weeks and some guys is trying to cash in on her name. Wait until you hear how. Sunny Hostin on the case. We'll talk about both those, next.


BALDWIN: A legal conflict in Massachusetts is showcasing the power, and you could also say, the abusive power of the court system. Boston newspapers are reporting a female probate judge ordered a 32-year-old mentally ill woman to undergo an abortion and be sterilized.

This appellate judge overturned that decision, noting that the woman, who's been referred to as Mary Moe, expressed her desire to not have one because she is Catholic. So according to the "Boston Globe," the woman is schizophrenic, is bipolar, and the medication that keeps her stable could hurt her fetus.

The "Globe" also reports the woman has had a previous abortion, also has a son who is now in the care of her parents.

Legal analyst Sunny Hostin is on the case.

Sunny, first things first. Can a court legally order someone to get an abortion?

SUNNY HOSTIN, LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: Well, you know, interestingly enough, this sort of was the state of the law for many years. It started in about 1907 and ended the practice in about -- mid-1970s. About 33 states did have laws on the books that allowed mentally ill patients to be court-ordered, to be involuntarily sterilized.

But Brooke, I haven't seen something like this since I went to law school, right, because these are cases that we study.


HOSTIN: It just isn't done anymore. So really quite shocking that this judge would order it. And I think what -- I think it was said extremely well by the appellate court. The appellate court said the personal decision whether to bear or be -- get a child is a right so fundamental that it must be extended to all persons, including those who are incompetent.

And that really is the law of the land right now. So this is just such an anomaly and really just kind of a legal shocker for those that watch these kinds of cases.

BALDWIN: Well, here's the other question that I had which is, this medication we just mentioned, this medication that this woman takes to keep her mentally clear could harm the fetus. The woman is reportedly five months along. When you have sort of mother versus fetus, whose case do the courts usually favor?

HOSTIN: Yes. It's a really difficult question, and typically the courts certainly favor the mother, right? And so until a fetus is viable. But in this case you have a mother that says, I want to keep my child. I don't want to have an abortion, and so medical professionals have to work with her and have to work with the court system to make sure that both mother and child are OK.

But bottom line is, she has made her decision to have this child very, very clear and the court was in no position to force her to have an abortion.

BALDWIN: Second case has to do with Beyonce and Jay-Z here. Here's the story. New York designer, this guy, just up and applied to trademark the name Blue Ivy Carter. That's the name of Beyonce and Jay-Z's newborn, by the way. Reportedly the designer doesn't know them, but he does know what the kid's clothes for Blue Ivy Carter NYC will look like. I guess a sample here. This is part of his application.

So can just anyone, out of the blue, trademark the name of your kid?


HOSTIN: Isn't this unbelievable?

BALDWIN: It's crazy.

HOSTIN: No, you can't do something like this. And I got to tell you, as a mother myself, I was just so horrified by this. They just had this baby. This baby isn't even a month old and people are trying to cash in on the baby's name. BALDWIN: Raking money.

HOSTIN: I checked -- I checked with the trademark office in the United States, and' I have been told that a name identifying a particular living individual cannot be registered as a trademark -- get this -- without written consent.

I don't know, Brooke, do you think Beyonce and Jay-Z are going to give them consent?

BALDWIN: I'm thinking no. No. So where does this go, I guess, from here?

HOSTIN: I'm thinking not too much.

BALDWIN: Where does this go from here? Beyonce and Jay-Z say, forget about it?

HOSTIN: That's right, I mean a trademark office will bounce this without giving written -- having written consent, and I don't think, as you just agreed with me, they're going to get it, so this is going to go away, but it's just so sad that this is the state of celebrity in these days. I mean can't you even name your child without someone trying to profit off of it? I just think it's so despicable.

BALDWIN: Are we surprised, Sunny Hostin? No.

HOSTIN: I'm not surprised, I'm not surprised. But despicable nonetheless, right?

BALDWIN: There you go. You get the last word there.

Sunny Hostin, thank you so much. We'll see back here tomorrow.

It is a fight that could forever change what you share online and how you surf the Web. We're talking movies, and music and pictures, quotes even. Some Web sites are blocked today all over a bill -- actually, two bills, one in the House, one in the Senate -- that critics say amounts to censorship.

We've been waiting to speak to the CEO of Wikipedia for the better part of the last hour. So far he hasn't shown up for a conversation. But we will still speak to a voice you haven't yet heard in all of this. This man, former senator, Chris Dodd, represents the movie industry in this anti-piracy battle. Don't miss this.


BALDWIN: If you have been online at all today, you have probably noticed something strange. In fact, look at this. This is what Wikipedia looks like today if you try to log on, blacked out. Just imagine a world without free knowledge. Reddit is also down. Google has a big black bar over its logo.

And these are just some of the examples, some of the sites today taking part in a day of protest over these two anti-piracy bills in Congress, the Stop Online Piracy Act, or SOPA, that's in the House, and the Protect Intellectual Property Act or PIPA that's in the Senate.

Content providers like movie studios want to stop piracy on foreign Web sites. That's really who they're targeting here, these foreign Web sites. But many tech companies fear that the laws could lead to widespread censorship in the United States.

We do need to be entirely transparent and point out that CNN's parent company, Time Warner, does support these anti-piracy acts, and I want to welcome former senator, Chris Dodd, who is now the head of Motion Picture Association of America, MPAA, a strong backer of these bills.

Senator Dodd, nice to see you.


BALDWIN: Question here, number one. You know, blocking these Web sites, limiting the search results. How can you assure the American public -- there are very many people very interested in the story today -- this won't go too far?

DODD: Well, again, we've done this already. Fourteen years ago the Congress overwhelmingly supported something called the Digital Millennium Copyright Act which allowed the Justice Department to go after domestic sites that were stealing intellectual property and content. Over 300 sites in the last couple of years have been shut down as a result of that legislation.

What happened, not surprisingly, is this criminal elements, in order to avoid the jurisdiction of American courts, have gone offshore. And so they now operate outside of the United States and continue their activity with devastating effect, depriving, that is, these -- in the industry that I'm involved with today where 2.2 million people go to work every morning, 90 percent of whom work at blue-collar jobs averaging about $55,000 a year in salaries with good pensions and good benefits.

Those jobs are at risk. And these movies and television programs are being stolen but it is limited to that. Also you're seeing these knockoff products, counterfeit products involving defense products, medications for elderly people, bulletproof vests, all sorts of things are being stolen by these illegal foreign sites.


DODD: Everyone says they want to shut down these foreign criminals who are stealing American jobs. These two bills are designed to do that. They've been worked out for months --

BALDWIN: Well, let me -- let me jump in on that note.

DODD: Yes.

BALDWIN: Because -- and you mentioned, you know, that the law that was passed many years ago that --

DODD: Right.

BALDWIN: Specifically targets these domestic sites, but when you look at this list of lawmakers, Senator Dodd, I mean the polling now sort of changing their minds, so to speak, with one of these acts, just really in the last 48 hours. These are couple of the faces. Senator Marco Rubio, Roy Blunt, Congressman Ben Quayle, Congressman Lee Terry. Rubio and Blunt even co-sponsored PIPA in the Senate.

So with these people changing their minds, if you will, my question to you is, are the bills, at least as currently the legislation -- as it's currently written, are they dead?

DODD: Well, I don't know that. And people are involved in drafting them and working on them, and I know as we speaking here, people are doing that. We've said all the way along, look, this involves a dialogue, a communication between people who have different points of view, but the point is, at a time like this when jobs, jobs, jobs -- that's all we're hearing about. Just remember this, there are people, as you and I are talking, who are stealing content and putting at risk American jobs.

And our industry, the one I that represent today, those 2.2 million jobs are not just red carpet jobs. It's a blue-collar, industry and business, people behind the cameras, those technicians, those cameramen, those audio people, the makeup people, the truck -- all these jobs that are involved in this business.

Those jobs are being lost. "Avatar" was stolen 21 million times. "The Hurt Locker" was -- suffered terribly because of theft after the theatrical experience. "Rio," the digital animation movie, that did well, premiered on April 4th, it was in 22 different languages four days later.

BALDWIN: No, I understand. I understand.

DODD: We're trying to stop these people who steal it.

BALDWIN: And I think -- I think, you know, a lot of these folks agree that that is illegal, but you know, you avowed, sir, that you wouldn't become a lobbyist when you left the Senate, and here you are, you know, lobbying for the movie industry. How do you explain that?

DODD: Well, no, we're trying to talk about a position that's very important. This isn't just the movie industry. As I mentioned, there are all sorts of businesses, 19 million people in this country who work in intellectual property and copyright areas. And their jobs are at risk. There are people every single day going after other products other than film or television.

This isn't limited. You have the AFL-CIO, the Chamber of Commerce supporting this, standing up for American jobs at a time when they're being lost with high unemployment rates. I think I'm sorry people having different points of view but let's sit down and try and work it out, it seems to me, and put a bill together that people can support. BALDWIN: Yes.

DODD: If that's the issue, then we ought to be doing it, not blacking out Web sites today.

BALDWIN: Well, perhaps --

DODD: They ought to be hosting themselves as a way to have a healthy discussion about what needs to be done in order to stop this behavior.

BALDWIN: Perhaps as you point out people are downloading movies. Right now perhaps lawmakers are re-drafting this legislation.

DODD: Well, I hope so.

BALDWIN: Senator Dodd, I appreciate it, thank you very much.

Just a quick reminder, we are hoping to talk to Wikipedia co-founder Jimmy Wales, who is supposed to be on this show just about an hour ago. He has not appeared.

Jimmy Wales, we'd love to hear from you if you would like to show up in the next seven minutes. Thank you. Or tomorrow.

Just 48 hours after NATO began dropping bombs over Libya two American pilots crashed. What happens next which sparks some of the most tense moments of the entire operation, and now they are actually speaking out. This is a CNN exclusive, next.


BALDWIN: Let's check in with Wolf Blitzer and see what he has coming up on "THE SITUATION ROOM" including new poll numbers.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Right at the top of the hour we're going to release our brand-new CNN/"TIME" magazine/ORC poll showing what likely Republican voters are thinking right now here in South Carolina, Brooke, as well as in Florida. We got new numbers in Florida as well. Stand by for that. Some of our viewers might be surprised to see what's going on with only a few days left to go.

Also, my special interview, that's coming up in "THE SITUATION ROOM," with Newt Gingrich. He's closing the gap, supposedly, right now. We'll see what's happening. The poll numbers, Newt Gingrich, all the latest on that cruise disaster. A lot more coming up, Brooke, right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

BALDWIN: We will see you in a couple of minutes. Thank you, Wolf.

And just 48 hours after NATO started bombing Libya last year you may remember two American pilots crashed, and they haven't been able to talk about their frightening experience until now.

Barbara Starr with a CNN exclusive.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The U.S. war over the skies of Libya was just two days old when F-15 pilot Major Kenneth Harney and Captain Tyler stark got their mission -- conduct air strikes again Moammar Gadhafi's forces. Harney in the front seat, Stark in the back.

MAJ. KENNETH HARNEY, U.S. AIR FORCE: This is the big leagues. And you know, we're going to be flying in combat tonight.

CAPT. TYLER STARK, U.S. AIR FORCE: For me it was -- you know, I'm pumped. First time to go out and you know potentially drop in combat.

STARR : After bombing their target near Benghazi, they turned for home, but suddenly the aircraft is spinning out of control. They are headed for a crash. For the first time ever, Harney and Stark tell what happened in what would be the most tense hours for the U.S. military in its aid of the NATO mission.

Pretty much like if you're driving a car down the road, you hit a patch of ice and your car starts spinning. That's exactly what our aircraft at that point was doing.

STARK: First there it was, OK, this is -- at first, I was, this is really happening. And a little bit surreal, like we're spinning, this is not good, very not good.

HARNEY: I called mayday, mayday, mayday.

STARK: We're in a spin, we're falling, counting down the altitudes.

STARR : They bail out and hope they don't land in the middle of Gadhafi's forces.

HARNEY: I was scared. There's no doubt in my mind that I was terrified.

STARR : They have landed in separate locations. On the ground Harney spends the next three hours on the run, trying to hide and radio his position to U.S. planes overhead. The Marines fly in a rescue team, Harney wants no mistakes.

HARNEY: So I put my hands up in the air hoping that they don't come at me very hostile at this point. At that point I don't care if they, you know, put me in cuffs, I don't care if they throw a bag over my head. I know I just want to be on that helicopter.

STARR : Stark winds up in a field. Suddenly two vehicles approach. Someone calls out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll help you.

STARK: I hear the voice a little bit closer, American come out, we're here to help.

STARR : Lights are shining right at his hiding position. STARK: I get up and put my hands up, and started walking to the voice and the light. Once I get there, my impression is, OK, you have to assume that they are the bad guys. And so I approach them thinking, OK, I'm caught.

STARR : He's driven to a nearby building, still very much on his guard.

STARK: There's a half circle of locals. And I'm thinking, OK, this is going to be one of two ways, either this is where the beatings are going to start or this is where I'm going to get a lot of help. Fortunately, I walked in the room and got a round of applause.

STARR : With all the stress, Stark can't remember the phone number in England to call for rescue, so he calls his father from Libya.

STARK: In the age of cell phones, whose number do you know off the top of your head? My parents. So I called them up, spoken with my dad, I said, hey, I need you to make a call for me.

STARR (on camera): Stark was sheltered that night by the friendly Libyans until an Italian boat could come and pick him up to bring him to safety.

What went wrong with the F-15 that night? Well, investigators found that one of the flight maneuvers threw the plane off-balance for technical reasons that the crew could not have anticipated.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.


BALDWIN: Barbara Starr for that CNN exclusive, thank you, Barbara.

And thank you for watching. I'm Brooke Baldwin in Atlanta. Now live from Charleston, South Carolina, Wolf Blitzer. "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now.

BLITZER: Brooke, thanks very much.