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Nancy Grace
Arizona Man Wants Wife Arrested for Adultery
Aired January 20, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Arizona. Mistresses and male lovers, watch your pocketbooks and wallets. And that`s not all. You`re headed to jail!
Bombshell tonight. A mother of two under investigation for adultery. In a stunning twist, Traci Banks`s husband calls police when he suspects she`s cheating. And it turns out, in Arizona, adultery is a crime. Exclusive primetime tonight, both the husband and the wife he accuses her of cheating with us live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reportedly investigating an Arizona wife for adultery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve got somebody freely admitting guilt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After the husband demanded his wife be jailed for cheating on him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Infidelity was not only a marital matter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s had seven, eight affairs that I know of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Banks wants his wife, Traci, arrested under Arizona`s adultery statute.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s criminal, and the detective, he said, also offered this advice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, it`s about time she got on with her life, and you ought to get on with yours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When his wife, Traci Banks, got the call from Glendale (ph) detective Larry Gonzalez (ph), she was amused.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody thinks it`s funny. Everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: David Banks reportedly says his wife of 17 years began cheating on him about 10 years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Women or men would think twice about going and jumping in the sack and throwing away a marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And also, a 29-year-old pregnant North Carolina mother, a championship cheerleader, found murdered inside her Raleigh home, her 2- year-old little girl found hiding under the bed unharmed. Tonight, we want justice!
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: What`s the problem? Tell me exactly what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think my sister`s dead!
911 OPERATOR: OK, tell me what happened, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no idea. Oh, my God!
911 OPERATOR: All right, stay on the phone with me, please. What`s your name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meredith Fisher.
911 OPERATOR: Meredith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this is the Young address. Oh, my God!
911 OPERATOR: Meredith, listen to me, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: Are you with the patient now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes (INAUDIBLE) her daughter.
911 OPERATOR: And how old is the patient?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And there`s blood everywhere. She`s 28, 29.
911 OPERATOR: 28.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should I try to move her?
911 OPERATOR: Listen to me, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
DAVID BANKS: I`m going to tell you what to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: But you need to calm down so we can help her. You said there`s blood everywhere?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: All right. Is she conscious?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think so. Should I try to help her?
911 OPERATOR: Listen to me, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m listening!
911 OPERATOR: Is she breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think so.
911 OPERATOR: Have you checked?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michelle? She`s cold!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIS: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Live to Arizona, a mother of two under investigation for adultery. In a stunning twist, Traci Banks`s husband calls police when he thinks she`s cheating. Well, it turns out, in Arizona, adultery is a crime. And with us tonight in a primetime exclusive, both the husband and the wife weigh in.
But first to Christina Estes, reporter with Newstalk KFYI. Christina, isn`t there enough murder, rape, dope, you know, crack cocaine and heroin? There`s actually a law that makes adultery a crime?
CHRISTINA ESTES, NEWSTALK 550 KFYI (via telephone): In Arizona. And actually almost half the states in this country have similar laws. In Arizona, adultery is classified as a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to 500 bucks and 30 days in jail.
And it reads that if a married person has sex with someone other than his or her spouse, that person is committing adultery. And that law also reads that no prosecution will take place unless a complaint is filed by the husband or wife who feels wronged. In this case, that`s Mr. Banks.
GRACE: OK, Wendy Rose Gould, freelance reporter from Yahoo!, joining us also out of Phoenix. You know, I prosecuted for 10 straight years. I never once had a complaint on adultery.
WENDY ROSE GOULD, YAHOO! NEWS: David and Traci Banks have been married for 17 years. And according to him, he discovered that she was cheating on him roughly 10 years ago, after he`d had a vasectomy and noticed that condoms had gone missing.
You know, he`s been trying to report this with the police ever since he discovered that this archaic law still existed on the books. And police, you know, didn`t pay attention to him very much at first, but he was persistent, and so they finally followed up with him last week.
GRACE: To Clark Goldband, our producer on the story. Clark, what was that about unused condoms?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy. The husband says what tipped him off was he started noticing condoms, contraceptives went missing, and he had a vasectomy. So he determined in his mind that there would be no reason for those condoms to suddenly vanish and suspected his wife was cheating.
The husband alleges that this cheating didn`t take place one or two times, but she cheated with at least seven or eight men that he`s aware of, according to the husband.
GRACE: To Traci Banks, her husband wants her arrested for cheating. As a matter of fact, an investigation under way. It turns out in Arizona, it`s a crime to commit adultery.
OK, Traci Banks, let`s hear your side. How did this whole thing happen?
TRACI BANKS, HUSBAND WANTS HER ARRESTED FOR CHEATING: Honestly, it just blows me away that this is even happening, you know? I mean, the marriage has been over for many years, and he knows that.
GRACE: Are you legally...
TRACI BANKS: As far as -- no, no, no.
GRACE: Well, then, the marriage isn`t over. Headline! You`re still married! All right, let`s back it up and start again. The marriage is not over. You`re still married. Now, what happened?
TRACI BANKS: Well, we moved out here 13 years ago, and after two years, it just went to -- you know, went downhill.
GRACE: What do you mean, it went downhill? You got your first boyfriend, to put it euphemistically? It went downhill?
TRACI BANKS: No, no, no.
GRACE: OK. What happened? What do you mean it went downhill?
TRACI BANKS: No, I didn`t -- because everything just went downhill. We moved out here. He couldn`t hold a job, you know, just one thing after another. It just went downhill.
GRACE: Aren`t you leaving something out of that scenario?
TRACI BANKS: The love just...
GRACE: The love what?
TRACI BANKS: What`s that?
GRACE: What happened to the love?
TRACI BANKS: It went out the window.
GRACE: Out the window. OK, so...
TRACI BANKS: Yes.
GRACE: ... from what I understand of the criminal code, being out of a job, not a crime. Cheating on your husband, apparently in Arizona, a crime. Now...
TRACI BANKS: I know.
GRACE: ... didn`t you leave something out of that scenario you just painted, the lovers? Your husband says what, 8 to 10 lovers? That wasn`t...
TRACI BANKS: Now, that`s funny.
GRACE: ... in your story. Was that the going out the window part?
TRACI BANKS: No. No. No.
GRACE: Well...
TRACI BANKS: There was never seven or eight affairs. There was never seven or eight affairs.
GRACE: Well, you know...
TRACI BANKS: I didn`t have my first affair...
GRACE: Isn`t it kind of like the camel`s nose in the tent, once the nose is in, the tail is certainly to follow? I mean, you know, it`s like being a little bit pregnant. Either you had an affair or you didn`t. And you`ve admitted that you did. And it`s against the law, so...
TRACI BANKS: Yes, just twice.
GRACE: ... why shouldn`t you go to jail?
TRACI BANKS: Because I -- the marriage is over. I just don`t have the money for an attorney or I would have divorced him a long time ago.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Peter Odom, Alex Sanchez. Can`t you just get a divorce on line, Peter Odom? Why do you have to have a lawyer?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, Nancy, you can`t get a divorce on line. And frankly, there are millions of people in this country that don`t have much money. It costs $1,000 to $2,000 even for an uncontested divorce. There are court costs, attorneys` fees. It`s expensive.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... in a nutshell is no, you can`t get a lawyer. You can`t get a divorce on line. Alex Sanchez...
ODOM: It`s not free.
GRACE: True. Alex Sanchez, can`t you march yourself down to the courthouse and get a divorce without a lawyer if you don`t have property to divide?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You are never required to absolutely have an attorney in any case, criminal or civil. But Nancy, I`m going to tell you something. This case should be vigorously investigated by the police. And this woman, who`s now a person of interest, they should call her down for a polygraph. They should do DNA. They should investigate all the prior suspects in the case who committed crimes along with her, the co- conspirators. I think they should stop at nothing to uncover the truth of this matter!
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Well, I think she`s already given a full confession, Sanchez.
OK, Dave Banks, your wife says the marriage has been over for years. Obviously, it`s not because you`re still married. Now, who are those little people the two of you are holding? Are children involved? Do you two have children together?
DAVID BANKS, WANTS WIFE ARRESTED FOR ADULTERY (via telephone): Yes, ma`am. We have a 14-year-old son and then we have another son that`s autistic that`s 11.
GRACE: Now, how have you explained to them that you`re trying to put their mother behind bars?
DAVID BANKS: Well, my oldest son is staying with me, and he`s all for it. He does not want any contact with her, with his mother, whatsoever. It`s like pulling teeth to get him to call her, when she calls here incessantly. We give him the messages, and he refuses to call her.
GRACE: Well, what -- why?
DAVID BANKS: She promised him $200 for Christmas.
GRACE: Why doesn`t he want to call her?
DAVID BANKS: He`s still not seen it yet. And you know, it`s more or less just a bribe dangling out there so she can try to get her hands on him.
GRACE: Well, is there any chance you may have poisoned him against his mother?
DAVID BANKS: No. I do nothing of the sort. Like I said, all messages...
GRACE: Well, why`d you tell him about the adultery?
DAVID BANKS: ... are passed on to him.
GRACE: Why`d you tell him about the adultery?
DAVID BANKS: I`m sorry?
GRACE: Why did you tell him about the adultery? Did he have to know that?
DAVID BANKS: I have not told him anything about it, other than when he asks a question, I`ll answer it as briefly as I can because he really does not...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait a minute!
DAVID BANKS: ... need to be involved...
GRACE: Put that picture back up! Did I just see you on roller skates with a -- aren`t you disabled?
DAVID BANKS: Yes.
GRACE: What are you doing fishing and on roller skates?
DAVID BANKS: Well, those pictures are many years old. In fact, the fishing picture was taken back in Ohio, on Allen Creek Reservoir, in probably 1995.
GRACE: What about you in a hockey outfit?
DAVID BANKS: Yes, I used to play a lot of hockey. I coached my son`s team. I volunteered...
GRACE: When? When?
DAVID BANKS: ... to coach other kids. I have not played in over a year.
GRACE: Whoa! You played hockey one year ago and you`re on disability?
DAVID BANKS: No, I`m not on disability. I`m trying to get disability because it`s a degenerative disk disease that`s gotten chronically worse. In fact, I just completed a trial with a device manufactured by Medtronic...
GRACE: Well, I also just saw you...
DAVID BANKS: ... that will control the pain...
GRACE: ... fishing.
DAVID BANKS: I`m sorry?
GRACE: You`re fishing! I see you fishing. If you can fish, you can work at a desk!
DAVID BANKS: Like I said, Nancy, that was back in, like, 1995. That`s on my stepbrother`s boat, which he no longer even has, and it`s in Ohio.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Forget about the fishing. Fishing out. When are you skating, when are you roller skating in your driveway?
DAVID BANKS: Again, that was probably 2000, 2001.
GRACE: OK, you know, Traci Banks, you`re saying he`s disabled. You`re saying he`s on pain meds. Why am I seeing him in a hockey outfit there in front of a net, in front of the goal, with a hockey stick?
TRACI BANKS: It`s funny. It`s funny. He`s not disabled. He -- bottom line is...
GRACE: So you said the love was gone because he`s disabled on pain pills. But he`s not disabled. So why did you take all those lovers? You`re a grown lady...
TRACI BANKS: I didn`t take lovers.
GRACE: ... for Pete`s sake! You`ve got two kids to think about.
TRACI BANKS: Yes, exactly. But you know what? When somebody that just sits on their butt and don`t want to get a job and wants you to support them (INAUDIBLE) he hasn`t held a job in 13 years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight affairs that I know of.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He stayed, he said, because of their two boys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ARS 13-1408 makes adultery a class three misdemeanor in Arizona. He says it took years for Glendale PD to finally take his report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s had seven, eight affairs that I know of.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She admits to having two affairs.
TRACI BANKS: And it`s been over. Did I feel bad or guilty? No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got somebody freely admitting guilt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He learned that infidelity was not only a marital matter, it`s criminal, a class three misdemeanor in Arizona.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seems to me that`s a rubber stamp right through the court system.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: David Banks demanded his wife be charged for extramarital affairs and wants her thrown behind bars under Arizona`s adultery statute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`d make me happy, obviously. Score one for the good guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Traci Banks says she`s not concerned about being arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do they get them to pick and choose which laws they can and can`t report?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would it do for you if she was prosecuted?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it`d make me happy, obviously. But you know, it`d be like score one for the good guys for a change. If they used it all the time, maybe some of these women or men would think twice about going and jumping in the sack and throwing away a marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, it turns out that adultery is a crime in Arizona, and he is trying to enforce it, under suspicions his wife was having affairs. To Dave Banks -- he wants his wife arrested and prosecuted for cheating.
OK, Dave Banks, you`re convinced she`s having affairs. Why? When did you first get suspicious?
DAVID BANKS: What, this latest time?
GRACE: I guess so, yes.
DAVID BANKS: OK, yes, let`s go with the latest time. She had an order of protection taken out against me in May of 2011. And she uses the Glendale court system as a frequent flyer every time. Rather than try to work out a problem, she`d go down and have an order of protection taken out to have me removed.
This time, after being removed, I went back over there, when the order was quashed because she had no proof of anything, to either try to talk to her or start to get my belongings. The doors` locks had been changed, and come to find out she had her boyfriend living with her at the time in my apartment. She was asking for exclusive use of the apartment in the order of protection, and it was denied. And again, my oldest son testified against her.
GRACE: OK, Traci Banks, don`t you think that`s a little beyond the pale, to have your boyfriend...
TRACI BANKS: Yes.
GRACE: ... slung (ph) up (ph) in your husband`s apartment?
TRACI BANKS: In his apartment. He was not even on the lease. I was on the lease.
GRACE: OK, bottom line, out to Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." Why don`t they just both go down to the courthouse and fill out the petition?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Because they`re locked in a relationship with each other. And apparently, she`s unable to stand up for herself effectively so she can have a relationship with her kids.
I`m hoping child protective services is watching this show tonight. In fact, I`m wondering about my duty as a mental health official to report. He has an 11 and a 14-year-old with him. Can he provide care? Is there neglect? He`s not working. Who`s buying the food? Is he on state aid? And he is alienating his children from their mother?
This seems like a situation that needs to be investigated. I`m not worried about the cheating, I`m worried about the children and their care.
GRACE: You know what? You brought up a good point. You know, Lisa Lockwood, former police detective, author of "Undercover Angel," at first, I just thought that they were all crazy, but the reality is, you`ve got two children, one autistic, in the middle of all of this.
LISA LOCKWOOD, FMR. POLICE DETECTIVE: Yes. And it`s a case of tit for tat. Handling so many domestics, I had a call once for (SIC) a woman who said her husband had the television too loud, can you please come and arrest her (SIC) for a noise disturbance. This is going to just go on and on back and forth. Bottom line is it`s about the kids. Get the kids into the proper place.
GRACE: Pat Brown?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: ... Banks is obviously justifying everything she does. Anything this man does that she doesn`t like, justifies her going to sleeping with another man. She`s a liar. She doesn`t care about her kids enough to act right.
So I`m sort of on his side, although I think it`s kind of -- you know, going through the system I don`t think is the right answer. I think we just need to as a society to say adultery is not so acceptable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are reportedly investigating an Arizona wife for adultery after the husband demanded his wife be jailed for cheating on him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m fixed, and we had a bunch of rubbers left over and they all disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is how Dave Banks figured out that his wife was cheating.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Arizona man wants his wife of 17 years jailed for cheating on him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s had seven, eight affairs that I know of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports are wife Traci Banks admits she`s had multiple affairs.
TRACI BANKS: Do I feel bad or guilty? No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Under Arizona`s adultery statute.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Infidelity was not only a marital matter, it`s criminal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe some of these women or men would think twice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. But first, Dave Banks, you want your wife arrested for adultery. It`s a crime in Arizona. I say if that is the law, then the law is an ass. And I`m quoting, quoting others on that.
You claim she`s had seven or eight affairs that you know of. How do you know of them?
DAVID BANKS: By various text messages that were on her phone, cards that were in her purse, you know, just stuff like that.
GRACE: Well, just because you find a business card, does that mean she`s having an affair?
DAVID BANKS: No, an "I love you" card.
GRACE: "I love you" card. Does that necessarily mean an affair? Why is that not a co-worker or a friend?
DAVID BANKS: Come on! It doesn`t take half of a brain to even figure it out.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Heather in Virginia. Hi, Heather. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call. I`m in West Virginia. I was wondering, do we really as a society -- why do we still have these archaic laws? Don`t we know better than to -- it`s just like a slippery slope to allow the government into the personal lives of consenting adults.
GRACE: You know, Christina Estes, reporter with KFYI, I`d be interested to find out who gets prosecuted for adultery more, now or in the past, men or women. Christina Estes, you`re joining us from Arizona. It`s a crime in your state. What do you think?
ESTES: Well, you know, we haven`t seen a prosecution in Arizona for quite a while. In the city of Glendale, where the Bankses reside, they say it`s been decades since there`s been a prosecution.
We do know of some other states where they have similar laws on the books. In July of 2010, a woman in Mississippi had her husband and her husband`s alleged mistress arrested. They were charged -- he was charged with adultery, she was apparently charged with fornication. The judge dismissed that case, citing lack of evidence, because of the way the statute in Mississippi reads. Apparently, it needs to be more than once, a series of times, and you more or less have to kind of catch them in the act.
We also know in New York, a woman was arrested and charged with adultery a couple of years ago. She was apparently caught having sex with someone in a public place. She ended up pleading guilty to public lewdness. The adultery charge was dropped.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are reportedly investigating David Banks`s wife, Traci, for adultery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just blew me away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adultery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A class three misdemeanor in Arizona.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Women or men would think twice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s not concerned about being arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody thinks it`s funny.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: What`s the problem? Tell me exactly what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think my sister`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Tell me what happened, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no idea. My God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: All right. Stay on the phone with me, please. What`s your name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meredith Fisher.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Meredith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this is the young address.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Listen to me, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Are you with the patient now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, and her daughter and there`s blood everywhere. She`s 28, 29.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: 28.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should I try to move her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Listen to me, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: I`ll tell you what to do. You need to calm down so you can help her. You said there`s blood everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Is she conscious?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think so. Should I try to help her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Listen to me, ma`am. Is she breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Have you checked?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michelle? She`s cold.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How someone could actually do that to someone like a young girl who is pregnant with a baby.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. A mother found dead, her 2-year-old child possibly a witness to the murder? The child found unharmed. A little girl hiding under the bed.
Out to Jean Casarez. Jean, what happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Nancy, this was a brutal crime of Michelle young who was a business executive, the mother of a 2-year-old, pregnant with a 5-year-old, found face down in a pool of blood. Her body was ravaged. Her skull was crushed. It was broken. The culprit, prosecutors say her husband. He says he has an ally by, he was on a business trip. But the fact is there were blood prints and I say blood prints in that home of shoes that he actually had owned.
GRACE: To Bonnie Druker joining us on the story. Bonnie, what was the scene evaluation?
BONNIE DRUKER, PRODUCER, NANCY GRACE(via telephone): The scene evaluation was, as Jean was saying, blood from the scene matched shoes that young once owned, Nancy.
GRACE: What do you mean once owned?
DRUKER: Well, shoes that he once owned. There were footprints right there from the blood.
GRACE: How do we know he once owned them if cops couldn`t match it up?
DRUKER: Well, cops aren`t saying -- I mean cops did say that.
GRACE: OK. So we know for a fact. OK, Pat Brown, the manner of death, the bludgeoning, the 2-year-old child hiding under the bed but unharmed. Apparently nothing stolen and no sex attack.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR, THE PROFILER (via telephone): Well, there you see, a lot of rage toward the victim. Usually that doesn`t mean somebody is sneaking in and trying to grab something. This is somebody who was extraordinarily angry and wanted to get this woman out of his life.
GRACE: OK. To Tom Gasparoli, crime writing joining us out of Chapel Hill, you`re intimately familiar with the fact of this case. What did police see when they got there?
TOM GASPAROLI, CRIME WRITER (via telephone): Well, when they got there, they saw, unfortunately, what Michelle`s sister had seen, which was Michelle lying on the ground in a pool of blood with horrific injuries as described earlier, Nancy. The child had been at that point has taken away and a scene that looked very personal. I think that`s probably one of the first thing they though. It was many of the wounds were to her face, broken teeth. It was a horrific scene and she had a number of defensive wounds. And of course, the husband was not there. He had left town the afternoon or the evening before.
GRACE: Bethany Marshall, also, this is a championship cheerleader, a 29-year-old mother five months pregnant at the time of her murder. And it was a brutal murder. You know that the number one cause of death amongst pregnant women in America is homicide.
BEHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR, DEALBREAKERS: Yes. Because the father is often jealous of the unborn child or does not want to take up the responsibilities of fatherhood.
Nancy, this reminds me of Joran Van Der Sloot and Stephany Flores where there was blood all over the place. Whoever did this, whoever the perpetrator was had an absolute rage attack. And you know, he didn`t just slice her throat. He broke her jaw. He smashed her skull. He attacked the part of her that thinks and the part of her that was beautiful. And this is what we see in domestic homicide. They hit the woman in the face because they want to obliterate the woman`s goodness.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, joining us from "In Session," were there marital problems?
CASAREZ: There were marital problems. And prosecutors are saying that was a motive for murder. But Nancy, there was much, much more. There was a life insurance policy. A life insurance policy that he couldn`t get his hands on to. But the question is did he try? Because that, Nancy, can be an aggravator for the death penalty.
GRACE: You know, Jean, what about logistics? He allegedly, the husband, was out of town at the time the incident occurred. Her prosecutors believe he could have left his hotel just after midnight, driven about 160 miles from Hillsville to the couple`s Raleigh home. What do you make of it?
CASAREZ: That`s right. And there was surveillance video of him leaving the hotel a little after midnight. Now, what he`s saying is he went to his parents` house. His family lived not too far away from that hotel. So it only seemed to solidify his alibi. But it didn`t do enough because he was charged with first degree murder. And there, right there, is that surveillance video from that hallway hotel.
GRACE: Let`s see that surveillance video again. And what does surveillance video show us and what does it prove, Jean?
CASAREZ: It shows that he left the hotel a little after midnight. Now beyond that, does it show him coming back, does it show him entering the home? The big issue is he lived in the home. And so, there was no sign of forced entry. There wouldn`t be if he went into the home. But the fact is, when you live in the home, it can make it more difficult. It`s the bloody foot prints that can trace it back to him.
GRACE: What about mistresses?
CASAREZ: There were two of them. There were several of them. Two we know of. And so, is that a motive? Is that enough motive for murder?
GRACE: And to you, Tom Gasparoli, the mistresses, how close in time were his affairs? How close in time to the murder?
GASPAROLI: I believe there were at least two flings or relationships within a couple of months. One possibly just a month before. And he is not denied that. There was also a claim of -- a pretty serious claim of domestic violence by a woman he spent time with some five or six years before that. I don`t believe there were any charges filed, but she did testify to an attack of sorts in a hotel room.
GRACE: That surveillance camera that Jean Casarez was referring to definitely shows him, the husband, leaving the hotel at midnight, leaving the hotel. And you see -- let me see it again, Jean, doesn`t he have his suitcase over his shoulder?
Unleash the lawyers, Alex Sanchez and Peter Odom. Peter, why is he leaving the hotel with his suitcase at midnight. His alibi was that he was there all night.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s something that the police may be able to explain and they might not. But the fact that he could have committed this murder doesn`t mean he did. It seems to me that this case is going to rise and fall on forensic evidence. If this beating is as brutal as Jean describes it, then there will be forensic evidence that might make the case more solid. Right now all circumstantial.
GRACE: Put him up. Why do you always say it`s all circumstantial? You have proven --
ODOM: When it is, I say that.
GRACE: As I was saying -- when you were a prosecutor, you proved cases that were nothing but circumstantial evidence, as have I.
ODOM: Right.
GRACE: So now that you`re a defense attorney, it`s like your mantra. No matter what question I ask you, you throw out oh, it`s circumstantial. That means nothing. In fact, under the law, the judge will tell the jury circumstantial evidence is as persuasive as direct evidence such as an eyewitness if.
ODOM: If, all other rational inferences can be excluded.
GRACE: No, actually, you`re mixing your jury charges. That`s the hypothesis of innocence jury charge. That doesn`t go with the circumstantial evidence charge.
To you, Alex Sanchez, Odom very artfully got out of the question. And made me focus off the suitcase on his shoulder and on to circumstantial evidence. Wise, Peter, very good, bravo. But let`s get back to the suitcase over his shoulder at midnight. Where is he going to have a cigarette with his suitcase?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He supposedly said he was going to visit his parents. Maybe his parents were interviewed and able to confirm that. But if there was a serious beating, broken teeth, it was blood all over the place, there would certainly be something on his body. It will be some marks, some blood on his clothing that could be traced to his car, traced to the hotel room. I don`t think that exists in this case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Is she breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Have you checked?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michelle? She`s cold.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK0 (BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it`s a tragedy that anybody would do this to start with but with a child in the house just makes me mad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Is she conscious?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think so. Should I try to help her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Listen to me, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m listening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Is she breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: I don`t think so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both young, not too far out of college and starting a family. And just awful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: How old is the patient?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s blood everywhere. She`s 28, 29.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: 28?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was so nice and so smart and so pretty, and just so sad to me right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Pardon?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really think she`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: OK. Are you certain?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hang on. Kathy, sweetie, please go into your room. OK, honey? I`m pretty sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: You are?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: We need to make sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Get on her back for me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s kind of twisted in a way that I can`t do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: You can`t roll her over?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not easily.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: You`re going to have to try.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hang on. I`m trying to see if I can get her pulse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: We got to try to do CPR if you can get her on her back, Meredith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s cold.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: She`s cold? All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her body is stiff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: OK. Then don`t try it. If she`s cold then there`s probably nothing you can do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not touch anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Try not to touch anything more than you did. Was anything out of place or unusual when you came in?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This place does not look like it normally looks like. There`s blood on the bed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: All right. Try not to touch anything else, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just moved a pillow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 9/11 DISPATCHER: Just leave everything exactly where it is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: A championship cheerleader, a mother of a 2-year-old little girl, five months pregnant, found dead in her home. A horrific crime scene. At least 30 blow, to the face, the neck, the jaw. She`s dead. Was her 2-year-old little girl a witness to murder?
The 2-year-old little girl found cowering under the bed sheets and bed covers in the bedroom. We are taking your calls. To Derek in Massachusetts. Hi, what`s your question?
DEREK, CALLER, MASSACHUSETTS: How you doing, Nancy? My question is what are they going to do with the child now? I mean, this child is obviously been through so much trauma and pain enough right now. How are they going to try to find out what happened in the house through the child?
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, what do we know?
CASAREZ: 911 call, Nancy, made by her own sister. She asked the little 2-year-old, what did you see? Who did you see? It`s never been revealed what that child said. But she was very close with her own sister who discovered that body. So that little girl will be with her, I`m sure.
GRACE: To Jessica in Missouri. Hi, Jessica. What`s your question?
JESSICA, CALLER, MISSOURI: Hello, Nancy. You`re the prettiest dancing lawyer I`ve ever seen.
GRACE: Well, thank you.
JESSICA: Secondly is this if this man did it and this child is 2- years-old. My question would be why would he not go in and destroy her because she would certainly recognize her dad, if nothing more than his footprints or footsteps.
GRACE: What about it, Bethany Marshall?
MARSHALL: My guess is he was trying to stage it like it was an intruder, and while he doesn`t -- he`s not really bonded to the little girl, otherwise he wouldn`t have done it in front of her, he didn`t really want her dead. He sort of had an apathetic stance towards her.
GRACE: To Tom Gasparoli, a crime writer joining us out of Chapel Hill. Tom, I`m interested about what his family had to say about the night he checks out of the hotel at midnight with his suitcase. What time do they say he came to their home?
GASPAROLI: I`m not sure what time they said he got there. But what was particularly interesting is that when he left the hotel, he said later that he had propped open the outside doors to go to his car, and so there`s no sign of him using his key card to go back in the outside doors the rest of the night.
GRACE: So what are you suggesting?
GASPAROLI: Well, there`s no real indication that he came back to the hotel.
GRACE: Exactly. Exactly.
GASPAROLI: Which, you know, you could argue there`s certainly time -- you could argue and he did, that you could drive to Raleigh and get on back and get to his meetings.
GRACE: You know, another issue, Bethany Marshall. Michelle`s mother states that her daughter was very much alive, had a lot of verve and energy, but that the husband was volatile and, quote, "took away her pep and her energy."
MARSHALL: Well, this sounds to me like a pattern of domestic abuse, don`t you think? What we see of these sociopaths is that they relate to the wife on the basis of power rather than affection. They bully, they`re paranoid. They feel persecuted by the wife`s personality so they try to shut her down.
And those affairs he had, I think he was preparing to be without the wife and with sociopaths you see poor behavioral controls, gratefulness, parasitic lifestyle and promiscuity. So it`s a larger pattern of a sociopathic personality on his part.
GRACE: You know, Lisa Lockwood, former police detective, author of "undercover angel." Lisa, a problem in proving this case against the husband is that DNA, depending on where it`s found and the nature of how it`s found, from the husband is rightfully there in the home. How do you get around that? Like it`s his home. So his fingerprints and DNA are rightfully there. That doesn`t make him a murder according to the evidence.
LISA LOCKWOOD: Exactly. And what the hope is that the trail of blood had gotten into the car that they were able to find garments, spatter in another location. I mean, that would be the ideal scenario.
GRACE: To John in Massachusetts. Hi, John, what`s your question?
JOHN, CALLER, MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Nancy, how are you? Happy new year to you, by the way.
GRACE: You too.
JOHN: Thank you. My question is does the husband have a criminal past?
GRACE: Good question. What do we know, Jean Casarez? Did he appear to be the all-American, the perfect husband other than all the affairs and the volatility?
CASAREZ: Yes. No criminal past at all. He was a salesman, hard working, perfect American family, yes.
GRACE: Now, her husband, Jason, left town that Thursday. It was on November 2. For a business trip. But as it turns out, he leaves the hotel and he`s caught on video at midnight leaving with his suitcase. Police convinced he had time to go back to the home. Was anything stolen and was there any sex assault, Bonnie Druker?
DRUKER: You know, Nancy, again, she was found in a pool of blood. The autopsy revealed she suffered 30 blows to her face, head and neck. And her jaw was broken, Nancy.
GRACE: And no forced entry.
DRUKER: No forced entry.
GRACE: And tonight after one failed attempt to prosecution, that husband is walking free. Right now, CNN heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When Michael was born, he was normal. He was active. He ran around. He played football. He was just like any other child. And one day he just got sick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 2008 when I was 11 years old, I was diagnosed with liver failure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He told me straight up if he does not get a liver transplant, he will die.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was Halloween and the doctor came in. The doctor and the liver specialist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He walked in and said I hate to sound like the grim ripper. He said it`s raining and it`s Halloween. He says I`ve been doing this for 30 years. Somebody`s going to die, your son is going to get a liver.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, this guy right here. His name was Johnny Hernandez. He was 18-years-old and he was killed in a motorcycle accident. This family gave me something to me what I needed, which was a liver from their son. So, I`m really couldn`t pay them back. So, I feed the homeless in honor of their son, Johnny Hernandez.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was Mickey`s idea to feed the homeless. And his vision.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: December 25th, 2008 we packed up 25 meals, put in my mom`s truck and drove around. Ever since then we`ve launched Mikey`s meals and we`ve fed over 4,000 people in the city of Oakland. I every time we feed, we promote donor awareness money.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We sign up 30 people to become organ donors at each event we have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is really important to help the community because without you, there is no community.
MOTHER: Mickey is truly a young wonder.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories, and more important the people that touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news, a shocking discovery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found a body inside the residence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mystery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police believe they found a female body in a boarded up abandoned house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body has been decomposed that has not been positively identified yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honey, I`ve murdered your mistress. That`s what police say a woman called to tell her husband after allegedly shooting his mistress. The mistress of Missouri psychiatrist was found dead in her Missouri home. She`s been shot in the face three times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody was in my house. Somebody was in the house. He`s bleeding really bad. He was shot in the head!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your husband was shot in the head? I need an ambulance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was no more than 25 degrees outside when the baby no more than a few weeks old --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A newborn, hair matted to the skull.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was left inside on this stoop, just inside this white rigid fence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No pampers, no clothes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: was a head. Now, a homicide investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authority says a severed human head -
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A human was found - a man`s severed head was found underneath the world`s famous Hollywood sign.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The head appears to be rather new. It was a head. Two of the dogs begin with the bag. And what appeared to be an object and then search again for additional human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The women were walking their dogs on a hiking trail when they discovered a plastic bag with a human head inside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The smiling face of 12-year-old Ryan Carter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grade A student.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honor Student Ryan Carter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was stabbed once in the heart and died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The alleged perp, a 10-year-old boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The little boy that committed an awful act --
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember army sergeant first class Schuyler Haynes, 40,New York, killed in Iraq. A Trinity College grad on a second tour, two bronze stars, purple heart, army commendation medal, army achievement medal. Remembered as a gentle soul and inspired to enlist by his grandfather. He served in World War II.
Leaves behind parents Robert and Sophie, a sister also named Sophie, brother Robert. Schuyler Haynes, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us and a special good night from the New York control room. Bret, Liz, Rosie, Dana.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
