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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Mind of Child Killer Exposed; New Video Released in Baby Lisa Disappearance
Aired January 27, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): A chilling inside look at a killer. We`ve got new tapes of child killer Ryan Brunn failing a polygraph just days after he killed a beautiful 7-year-old girl. You`ll see this killer smile and repeatedly lie about knowing anything about her Jorelys Rivera`s death as he desperately clings to his gruesome secrets.
Also, we`re going to show you new video that`s just surfaced in the Baby Lisa case. Will the dashcam footage of the cops racing to the home that night break this case wide open? Are cops any closer to finding this poor child.
Plus, as Ashton Kutcher returns from partying in Brazil, new details just released about the hours before Demi Moore was rushed to the hospital. Did the death of a close friend send her into a tail spin? We`ll also play for you the 911 tapes just released of Demi`s friends telling, "We need an ambulance. She`s got to the go to the hospital." Tonight uncovering Demi`s darkest secrets.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you participate in any way in causing the death of that girl?
RYAN BRUNN, CONFESSED MURDERER: No.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a neighborhood in total panic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re here to announce the arrest of Ryan Brunn for the murder of the 7-year-old Rivera child.
She was severely beaten. We believe that she was sexually assaulted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause the death of that girl?
BRUNN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something is bothering about you this case. And you need to talk to me about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not bothered about it at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening, everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell from New York City.
Breaking news tonight, the mind of a sadistic child killer exposed in new video of this police interrogation. Strapped to a polygraph. Ryan Brunn faces down his accusers and tells lie after lie after lie. Brunn murdered precious little Jorelys Rivera last month, and he was caught very quickly.
Now for the first time, we see and here his dramatic confrontation with Georgia police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you participate in any way in causing the death of that girl?
BRUNN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause the death of that girl?
BRUNN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you participate in any way of disposing of that girl?
BRUNN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know for sure who caused the death of that girl?
BRUNN: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, no, no, no. Each time he said it, it was a total lie. We know Ryan Brunn is the killer. We know this handyman targeted the 7-year-old girl, who was innocently playing in the yard of the Georgia apartment complex where this guy worked and she lived.
What he tried to keep secret is now stated fact, because he confessed in court just days ago, admitting he planned to sexually assault this beautiful little child.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNN: I was going to lure her in for sexual conduct with myself. Never had an idea of killing a child in my life. I was just so terrified and scared that -- I didn`t want her to go home and tell her mom or dad on me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Two days after that he killed himself behind bars. This man is now dead. And now we get to look at his lies and analyze how a killer presents lies to cops with a straight face.
Straight out to former FBI agent Steve Moore, who has been tracking this case from the beginning.
Steve, explain this video to us. What were the cops trying to achieve? And when does a procedure go from polygraph to interrogation?
STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI AGENT: Those are real good questions, Jane. What -- what they were trying to do is shake him. Obviously, the polygraph isn`t admissible in court. So the reason that they do it, not just because they want to know what`s going on, is that they can confront him with it afterward and say, "Listen, it`s useless. You`ve just caught yourself up. You might as well make your best deal right now."
It is a tool in getting a confession. And that`s what you saw, and they did it very well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here is the most chilling moment of confessed child killer Ryan Brunn`s police interrogation. The polygraph is complete. And he is told, "Hey, buddy. You didn`t pass." Just listen to his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s something that you know that you just haven`t told us. Something that`s bothering you. And I can tell when I`m asking these questions something is bothering you. It`s written all over you. Something`s bothering you about this.
BRUNN: It`s not bothering me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to talk to me about it.
BRUNN: I`m not bothered at all. I`m not bothered at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, well, that`s what killers do. They lie. They insist they`re innocent.
Straight out to Michelle Sigona, investigative reporter who has new information on this case just coming in -- Michelle.
MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: That`s right. We`re going to see and hear more of Brunn in the coming weeks, Jane. I can confirm to you that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said that next week they will release more video after he pled guilty to the crime. It`s about an hour long. They are working on taking a few bits -- a few portions of that out. And they will release that.
The second thing is, is that Brunn was investigated out of Virginia for inappropriate relations with possibly another child. Those charges were never filed. He was never convicted of anything.
But there is another case, potentially, that was never reported out of Lumpkin County. The GBI is now working with Lumpkin County to find if out there may be another victim that he may have possibly touched inappropriately out of Lumpkin County.
And No. 3 is that, prior to his suicide, there were no signs -- he was interviewed by psychologists. He was interviewed by investigators. And it appeared that once he was behind bars with his sweatshirt, he snapped. And that`s when the suicide took place.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, let me say this. This was masterful work by the Georgia law enforcement officers. Listen to the way cops cut through his lies. And they do something very interesting. But first they ask very easy, mundane questions. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is today Monday?
BRUNN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is today Tuesday?
BRUNN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prior to moving to Cherokee County, did you ever lie about anything important?
BRUNN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever lie to hurt someone?
BRUNN: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Robin Sax, former prosecutor, author, "Predators and Child Molesters," I`m not surprised that they are finding possible other victims when a man has the intention of sexually assaulting a child. He has probably thought about incessantly, right?
ROBIN SAX, FORMER PROSECUTOR/AUTHOR: You know, once a predator like this of this magnitude has been -- it would be very unlikely that there weren`t other victims.
But what I want to get back to is really important about polygraphs, is not -- even though polygraphs may not be admissible in court, there is what is called a pre-poly interview. And that is where the police sometimes have an opportunity to talk to the suspect in advance of the polygraph to kind of warm him up and talk about what is going to be said during the polygraph. And those statements in the pre-poly interview can be used in court.
So while a lot of people like to pooh-pooh away polygraph and say, "Oh, it`s inadmissible," just the -- your guests just said how valuable it is as a tool to be able to use it as a tool to get a confession. Some of those statements do find their way into a courtroom after all.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I just find it extraordinary when somebody`s saying, "No, I had nothing to do with it." And you know that they -- that they did. And you just watch somebody lie. It`s just fascinating to me.
One thing that comes out during this polygraph interrogation is that this guy had a serious drug problem. Listen to how often he gets high.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks to me like you had a little marijuana earlier than what you`re telling me. So when is the last time you actually smoked marijuana?
BRUNN: This morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what I thought. That`s all right. About what time this morning?
BRUNN: A little after I talked to the officer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What time was that?
BRUNN: About 9:30.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what I thought. That`s pretty early.
BRUNN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You always smoke early in the morning?
BRUNN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you? Man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at him. He`s smiling there, talking about how he smokes weed every single morning and needs it to get out of bed.
Kelly Knight, you`re a neighbor of this poor girl who was viciously murdered and then stuck in a Dumpster by this guy and compacted, literally. You also then, de facto, were a neighbor of this guy, because he was living and working in the complex.
What`s your reaction to him lying with impunity on this videotape of his interrogation?
KELLY KNIGHT, NEIGHBOR (via phone): It just makes me sickening [SIC]. Sick. I don`t know any words to describe it other than just sickening. He`s a sick, evil person.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you ever see him out and about? And if so, what was your reaction? Did he seem high to you?
KNIGHT: Yes, I did see him out. I never got that close to him, because I just didn`t feel comfortable near him. He would look down and look above his forehead kind of like to look at you and he would raise his hand with his head down. He just appeared to me very odd. Very odd.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, a lot of times we get a visceral reaction to people who have problems and we can`t quite put our finger on exactly what`s wrong. But our body is thinking of telling us something is wrong. The hair goes up on the back of our head. We should listen to those instincts.
Let`s play another key portion of this interrogation. Ryan Brunn in serious denial about his drug problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smoking does a lot of different things to people.
BRUNN: It doesn`t do -- it gets me high. It doesn`t make me crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does it even make you know everything you`re doing?
BRUNN: Yes, I can function.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michelle, I see it time after time, these hideous crimes. And often, drug abuse is at the heart of it. Briefly, what did you see?
SIGONA: You`re exactly right. A lot of times when some of these outrageous crimes are committed there are -- there are instances where drugs are definitely a key factor of this. Maybe it was a factor. Maybe there were other drugs that were involved. Unfortunately, at this point we may never know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Drugs and drug addiction allow people to do things that they would never have the capacity or evil to do sober. It numbs the conscience. It numbs the heart. So sad. Our hearts go out to this little girl`s family.
Next, can new video from the night Baby Lisa vanished finally solve the mystery? We`re going to show you the video next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER OF MISSING GIRL: Please, please, please call the tips hotline if you know where she`s at. If you have her, please just take her somewhere safe. No questions asked. Just drop her off with somebody, a hospital, a church. A fire department. The police station. Anywhere. Just please bring her home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Their daughter was missing. He`s not sure how long she`s been gone, and the screen was burst through.
JEREMY IRWIN, LISA`S DAD: I came home from work. The front door was unlocked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did anything look out of place other than her not being there?
BRADLEY: No. No. It`s like they just walked in and just disappeared.
JOE TACOPINA, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR PARENTS: They have nothing to hide. And she said that from day one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The brother was seen with Deborah Bradley as she bought a box of wine and baby supplies the night that missing Baby Lisa disappeared.
BRADLEY: I said, what do you mean she`s not in her crib? I just knew, you know, something was really wrong. We were running around the house, and we were screaming. I said, "Call 911. Call 911." Please bring her home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does newly released video in the case of missing Baby Lisa offer crucial clues to what happened the night this precious child vanished?
Take a look at this adorable 10-month-old baby. She was reported missing from her Kansas City, Missouri, home, nearly four months ago. Now our affiliate, KCTV-5, has just obtained exclusive dashcam video showing cops racing to the scene after Lisa`s dad, Jeremy Irwin, arrives home to find a busted window and his precious baby girl gone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Their daughter was missing. He`s not sure how long she`s been gone, and the screen was burst through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Noticeably not released, the crucial part in the video, when cops actually arrive at the home and actually meet with Lisa`s parents. Hmm. Why did they leave that out? We`re going to ask the experts in a second.
Former FBI agent Steve Moore is with us tonight. But first to Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney. And I want to ask about your insights. Why did cops leave out the part where they arrive at the home? Could it be that something happened with the mother who was drunk or the dad who was distraught that they don`t want the public to know about?
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, or they don`t want the real suspect that they`re focusing on to know that they have that video. Or it could have been just a mistake, which honestly does happen with those dashcams. Or more likely than not, they want to save it for a later statement to see if it`s inconsistent.
I mean, the big thing here, Jane, is to me it`s Haleigh Cummings revisited with a different cast of characters.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I agree with you there.
Here`s one major detail we do get from this video. The dispatcher says that the father does not know how long his daughter has been missing, because he`s at work. Listen carefully.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Their daughter was missing. He`s not sure how long she`s been gone, and the screen was burst through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So the father comes home from work and he finds his daughter missing. His wife is passed out after drinking too much.
I want to go straight out to Jim Spellman, CNN reporter, who has been tracking this case and doing interviews with key people.
Do you think that allows the family a little flexibility? Well, they say, oh, we don`t know when it happened, because the stories from this mother and father have changed. Particularly from the mother, who was at home when the child vanished.
JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That`s right. This definitely jibed with the time line that Deborah Bradley has given in media interviews. I got sent this footage late last night, Jane, and I didn`t really expect to see much. I was told there wasn`t much in it. But boy, it really had a visceral effect. I spent so many weeks on those streets to picture where was Baby Lisa at that very moment the police are screaming in. Could she even have heard those sirens? What did those officers might have seen, even before they knew that there was a case going on? They came right on the key routes that somebody would use to get out of Baby Lisa`s neighborhood.
And now the local TV station, KCTV, there, they had to fight for weeks to get the KC -- Kansas City Police Department to release this. So we definitely don`t know why they only released these portions. What other responses dash cams are and might be on them, but still more questions with this case every day than there are answers, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s right. And I want to ask you about the ever- changing time line for the night Baby Lisa went missing.
Deborah and her brother -- that`s the mother and the brother -- go to pick up wine at about 5 p.m. At one point the mom claims, oh, at 6:40 she puts Baby Lisa in her crib. At about 4 a.m., Baby Lisa`s dad comes home from work and discovers the mom passed out from drinking and the child missing. But the key is, what happened before dad got home?
Now, around 7 p.m. that night a neighbor reportedly comes over with liquor, and she and Baby Lisa`s mom are on the stoop drinking. At 10:30 the neighbor leaves. And Deborah says she goes to bed.
And then again, 3:45, the dad comes home, but apparently, Jim Spellman, the dad knocks on a neighbor`s door before calling police. And then there`s a discrepancy about the mystery phone call placed from phones that other claims were stolen at the very time this baby was purportedly taken.
SPELLMAN: First the next-door neighbor. Now Deborah Bradley has said she was out drinking with the next-door neighbor. The first place that Jeremy went was to that neighbor`s door to see if somehow that neighbor, who would sometimes babysit Lisa and the other two boys that they have, to see if maybe Baby Lisa was over there.
We know that that was his first stop. And then he immediately called 911. And in a matter of minutes later the police were there.
Now, as for those phone calls, that`s still really quite an open subject. We heard from police that perhaps a phone call was made after midnight at some point, that maybe those phones were taken from the house, according to them, with Baby Lisa, that was trying to access the Internet.
But whether -- who those calls were being made to and exactly where the phones were when the calls were made is still definitely an open subject. Could be key to the investigation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Kim, we all see that lady with the pink hair. OK? And she said she got a call from one of these mystery cell phones, but she didn`t have the phone. And she has an ex-boyfriend who`s a handyman who has a rap sheet who was reportedly in the area that night.
So I guess the big question, Dr. Dale Archer -- 10 seconds -- is there a lot more to the mother`s motives and what she was doing that night than she`s revealed?
DR. DALE ARCHER, PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s a good...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I`m going to have to answer for you. And the answer is yes, there is. I think, anyway.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGAN WRIGHT, RECEIVED CALL FROM MISSING CELL PHONE: I found out that he was getting into drug activity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know when it started?
WRIGHT: From what I understand. He would disappear for hours on end with no explanation. He was quick to anger, last to understand. And it was -- I just couldn`t handle it anymore. Towards the last couple of days I was actually fearful for my safety being around him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, this is complicated. That young lady with the pink hair says her cell phone got a call from a phone belonging to the family of Baby Lisa some time that night.
Now, the family of Baby Lisa claims that those phones were stolen by whoever took Baby Lisa. So they`re essentially denying that they called Megan Wright.
Megan Wright is the ex-girlfriend of a local handyman with a long rap sheet who was reportedly in town that night. And cops -- this is the key - - Steve Moore, former FBI. Cops told Megan that that handyman ex-boyfriend with the rap sheet`s phone number was written on the hand of Baby Lisa`s drunken mother. Here`s the significance.
MOORE: Well, the significance is everybody is lying to the police. If you -- if you say the phone has been stolen and then it calls a number that you have written on your hand right at that time, you have some real explaining to do.
If you`re a mother who`s missing her child who won`t go look for the child for whatever reason, you have some explaining to do. There are so many inconsistencies here that the police are probably holding back things like the dash tapes. They are holding back all these things, because they don`t want to tip their hands on where the investigation is going.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And several people in the neighborhood -- this is key -- say they saw a man walking around with an almost naked baby that night. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE THOMPSON, WITNESS: He was up here a ways, and he turned to look at me. And I looked at him. I could tell he had a baby. She had a T- shirt and either faded pants or a diaper. It was too cold for that.
(END VIDE CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go to the phone lines. Victoria from Georgia. Your quick question or thought, Victoria.
CALLER: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: My question is I heard on Vinnie Politan the other day that the parents were going to go on "Dr. Phil," and even though they weren`t talking to the media or the police or anything. And I just kind of like -- why would they even think about going on "Dr. Phil"? I know he`s a great doctor and all, but you know, he doesn`t know where that baby is. Unless he`s going to question them like he did Casey Anthony.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dr. Dale Archer, the caller makes a great point. Why aren`t they talking to cops sitting down together? They`ve reportedly not cooperated, according to police. Yet they`re going on "Dr. Phil"?
ARCHER: I do think that this is just one more red flag that they care more about the publicity of being on a national TV show than they do about finding out what happened to their daughter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jim Spellman, I`m sorry. Ten seconds. Does this mother have any history, aside from the drinking, of any kind of other substance abuse that we know of?
SPELLMAN: Not that we -- not that we know of at all, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it remains a complete mystery. So many -- so many characters. It`s a hard story. We`re going to bring you the very latest when this family appears on "Dr. Phil." It`s coming up very soon. So stay right here.
Up next, the 911 tapes of Demi Moore.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need an ambulance here as soon as possible, please.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Demi Moore has been rushed to the hospital.
DEMI MOORE, ACTRESS: It`s a harsh look at the reality that has affected us all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Demi Moore is apparently getting treated for health issues. Her rep said it`s related to stress.
MOORE: I am looking forward to an evening of good stories and good laughs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She overdosed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s convulsing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news. The scary 911 call from Demi Moore`s house the night she was raced to the hospital has just been released. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need an ambulance here as soon as possible please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is not -- why is an ambulance not on its way right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she awake?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, well, semi-conscious. Barely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Is she breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she breathing? Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she overdosed on --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s convulsing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: An ambulance raced Demi to the hospital earlier this week even though her reps say it was for, quote, "exhaustion". The 911 call gives another reason. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Tell me exactly what happened there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. She smoked something. It`s not marijuana. But it`s similar -- similar to incense. And she seems to be having convulsions of some sort.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was this accidental or intentional?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it was -- she smoked something, you know. But the reaction was accidental.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Smoking incense? Reports that Demi has left the hospital on the same day her ex, Ashton is finally back from partying in Brazil.
So much to cover -- straight out to Ken Baker from E! News; Ken, what do you know about what Demi was smoking that night?
KEN BAKER, E! NEWS, CHIEF NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we do know is that, as you heard in the call, she was smoking something and it was not marijuana. The speculation is that it was some sort of herb. It was possibly salvia which is a popular legal hallucinogenic, essentially herb that people are smoking. And we`re not sure though.
But the fact is this. It`s that she had a very bad reaction to whatever it was she was smoking apparently. She was convulsing. We were told that she was having basically symptoms of someone who is suffering from a seizure.
And of course, as we heard in the call, she was burning up. She was hot. She was semi-conscious. This was a very scary scenario. And it`s just chilling to listen to that 911 call.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is indeed. The 911 call revealed that not only was Demi smoking something the night she went to the hospital, but her friends knew something else was going on -- other things. Listen to this carefully.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did she take?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some form of -- I think (deleted) and then she smoked something. I didn`t really see. She`s been having some issues lately with some other stuff but I don`t know what she`s been taking and not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now "USA Today" did an investigation that often this thing that is marketed as incense is actually sometimes laced with some form of synthetic marijuana and produces sort of a marijuana-like high. And this "USA Today" article warned about the dangers and says that in any given case "It`s like a game of Russian roulette." It says you might be the next case; report of a serious seizure, mental health crisis or perhaps premature heart attack.
So Howard Samuels, addiction specialist, CEO of The Hills Treatment Center Beverly Hills. What do you suspect? We do not know. Remember her reps are saying exhaustion. What do you think it might be based on the 911 call?
HOWARD SAMUELS, CEO, THE HILLS TREATMENT CENTER: Well, it definitely sounds like spice, Jane. Spice is a drug that was legal -- now it`s illegal. They sell it as incense because that`s the loophole that these head shops use. Now for her to have a convulsion and for her to have a seizure, I also believe it had to be her physical condition which I think, you know, people have been talking about she has anorexia. And that means her physically she`s in very bad shape. But to combine the spice with like Adderall, which is another drug that has been reported she was taking. I mean if you combine these drugs you have a very serious situation, which is what occurred.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I want to say none of us were there. All we know is what we`re hearing from the 911 call. Her reps are saying she`s suffering from exhaustion -- if her reps want to come on the show any time. Again, we`re just repeating published reports. We have no independent conversation of any of it.
Ashton, by the way, Ashton Kutcher, just got back from partying in Brazil last night, the very same day Demi was reportedly released from the hospital. We have video of him leaving the airport from X17 online and we`ve made some still photos. Here they are.
Here`s my big issue. Is he a cad or sort of being healthy, not co- dependent? You might say that he was a cad for not rushing back immediately, Ken Baker. But you might say, well, maybe there was some kind of healthy situation there that he wasn`t being dragged into a drama that he might have known a lot more about than we know about.
BAKER: Well, here is what we found out Jane that Ashton Kutcher was paid a lot of money to go to Brazil for the week and to work. He had to pose for a catalogue shoot as a model. He attended various shows. He had some obligations.
And so, what we have been told is look, these two have been separated for more than two months. He`s moving on with his life. It`s not that he doesn`t care about her but they essentially they had cut off contact and he`s no longer a part of her life.
So I think people have to understand, this wasn`t like her husband was down partying in Brazil and just doesn`t care about his wife. These two have been separated, been leading very separate lives ewer since November. So I think it would be a little harsh to say that he had some responsibility.
Now, I think people who are fans of them, who never wanted them to break up in first place are feeling the sense of like, oh what`s he doing being down there. But when you really look at it, you can see that it does make sense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And speaking of fans, the phone lines are lighting up on this issue.
Whitney in Tennessee, your question or thought, Whitney?
WHITNEY, TENNESSEE (via telephone): I`m a big fan. Love you to death. Thank you so much.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
WHITNEY: My question about Demi Moore is, were they able to find any other drugs in her system? Or could this have been an attempted suicide considering the timing of what is going on?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to go to Dr. Dale Archer, clinical psychiatrist, who`s been studying all of this. Do you think there was any self destructive element that would rise to that level? Or was this something else?
DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I think there had to be a little bit of self destructiveness in there, especially if you couple it with her past history, which we know that she had lost a lot of weight. There were reports that she drank a lot of Red Bull and had been taking Adderall. You put all that together, and then you add the substance on top of that and yes, that`s unhealthy and self-destructive.
And we have the stress for it -- it`s because of course of the breakup with Ashton. And also she lost her long time AA sponsor not too long ago so you -- who she called her mom. So you put those two stresses together, add in the alcohol and drug or the drugs, and you got a problem that needs to be addressed.
But I have to tell she`s lucky she didn`t die because the next step after those convulsions is the heart stops.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s no denying Demi Moore is one of the world`s most beautiful women. Let`s look back at one of her iconic roles from Castle Rock, "Striptease".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is desperate. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
MOORE: I`m in a pretty bad custody fight. I can`t still be working here when I go to court.
Oh, yes, your honor. I`ve got a job. I`m working at the Eager Beaver.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So did she suffer a major hit to her self esteem? Ashton, her husband estranged but it`s estranged because he allegedly cheated on Demi with a much younger woman, Sarah Leale (ph) and we`re going to show you a picture of her from the dirty.com. And there she is. She`s a hottie. Let`s face it. There`s a lot of videos that we`ve seen posted of her fooling around, dancing and flirting and she obviously has a lot of sex appeal as well.
So Ken Baker, E!`s chief news correspondent, did Ashton`s indiscretion with this woman and perhaps others, I don`t know, essentially hit Demi at her core self-esteem, which is that she`s this beautiful woman who seems somewhat ageless?
BAKER: Demi just gave an interview very recently to "Harper`s Bazaar" and in it. She revealed that she has a -- what she called a love/hate relationship with her body and that she has, you know, obviously some self image issues.
And I think that we can`t necessarily connect with what happened Monday night with the breakup, with the alleged cheating on Ashton`s part and going through all this divorce. But you have to definitely put in that context.
It`s very clear, what we`ve been told all along ever since she found out about these reports that Ashton had been cheating possibly. She was very distraught. She was heartbroken. We literally saw her appear to lose weight and wither away. She looked stressed out. She seemed that. And I think that what went down Monday night confirms a lot of the concerns and speculation that people had about her emotional state since this separation went down a couple of months ago.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s what I see when I look at Demi looking at Ashton. She looks at him adoringly, almost worshipfully. I think that yes, he was very well beloved of her life. But underneath that, could it be an obsession with youth? Remember Ashton is nothing if not young and beautiful. Was she obsessed with him because he crystallized the qualities that she seeks for herself - namely to stay young and beautiful forever?
More psycho-babble coming up. You can hear more of those incredible 911 tapes next.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Tell me exactly what happened there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. She smoked something. It`s not marijuana but it`s similar to -- it`s similar to incense. And she seems to be having convulsions of some sort.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was this accidental or intentional?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it was she smoked something, you know, but the reaction was accidental.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need an ambulance here as soon as possible, please.
Why is not -- why is an ambulance not on its way right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she awake?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, well, semi-conscious. Barely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Is she breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she breathing? Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. And she overdose on --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s convulsing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Demi Moore, the 911 call that sent her to the hospital. She was, according to that 911 call, smoking some form of incense. We`re exploring what that does and how it could cause convulsions.
Let`s take a look back at the role that rocketed Demi back into the Hollywood bombshell status when she was over 40. Check this out. This clip of "Charlie`s Angels" from Columbia Pictures and YouTube; you remember this movie, 2003.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOORE: What`s up, angel?
CAMERON DIAZ, ACTRESS: Madison Lee.
MOORE: Natalie.
DIAZ: Oh my god. How did you know? Of course.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at her. She`s over 40. She looks like a teenager, an incredible body. That was back, I believe in 2003. And she certainly proved to the world that she was ageless, but Dr. Dale Archer, clinical psychiatrist, it`s a trick you can`t repeat forever. She`s now 49, heading into her 50s, and ultimately the body does, like the picture of the portrait of Dorian Gray. The body may look like it`s never going to age. But ultimately it always does.
Is she fighting a losing battle? Is she obsessed with youth? If indeed she was smoking incense, that`s what the kids do. She`s with a guy who is so much younger until he starts cheating on her with age appropriate people, reportedly. Is she obsessed and addicted to youth?
ARCHER: Yes, Jane, she is. And of course, that`s one of the attractions that Ashton had for her right off the bat. He was young and vibrant. And no matter how beautiful she is, no matter the fact that she`s a movie star, no matter all the things that she`s done or how good she looks, she will never be able to go back to 23 again. She`ll never be that young woman.
And when Ashton cheated with this young woman, it brought all of that back to her in a crashing reality, and it just made everything stark and real. This was an insult far beyond a husband cheating on a wife. This was a youth-obsessed woman realizing her own mortality.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we all are headed to the same destination, and you know what that destination is, I don`t need to tell you. One thing we all have in common is that we are all aging at the same amount of time as we speak. We should embrace that. That`s what aging gracefully is, embracing the fact that the only thing we can count on in this life is change.
Now, back to the 911 call; it is frantic. And in all the confusion the operator and Demi`s friends start fighting. Listen to this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is an ambulance not on its way right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am, instead of arguing with me why an ambulance is not on the way, can you spell it for me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Instead of arguing with me, can you spell it for me, please?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this is the wreckage that addiction creates. It`s not just -- and I`m not saying for sure she`s an addict. I have no idea. I know that she struggled -- according to "People" magazine with addiction back in the `80s and that emerged swimmingly. This was during the days of "St. Elmo`s Fire". And once an addict, I can say as a recovering alcoholic addict myself, always an addict.
Ken Baker, what is the word in Hollywood as this 911 tape is played, as she`s released from the hospital? What`s the buzz in Hollywood? Because I actually heard somebody say this could be the best thing that ever happens for her career. That we`re all talking about her. She`s back in the spotlight.
I mean look at Owen Wilson. He had a public crisis and now he`s in an Oscar-nominated movie.
BAKER: I don`t think -- I don`t really see this as any positive whatsoever whether it`s for her career or her health. The bottom line is she just had to drop out of a Linda Lovelace biopic. She was going to play Gloria Steinem. She just dropped out of the picture. Right now, she can`t work.
She has to get her health in order as the statement that her publicist released earlier this week. She has to focus on her overall health. Until she does that, there`s really not a career she can pursue. That`s one thing that`s clear.
But I think what is really sad about this is you hear the chaos at the house during this 911 call. She`s been hosting a birthday party. You know, it seems like she was being social and trying to go out there and mix with people but we were told by sources about that night saying that she was acting hyper. She wasn`t acting herself. She was a little crazy acting.
And I think that you just sort of get this portrait of a woman who is definitely battling a lot of demons. Unfortunately she made some bad choices that night. And luckily it didn`t end up worse than it was.
You can hear the tone of the voices on there. And there`s several voices by the way. There`s several friends and different people in the background that you hear. There were a lot of people in the room with her, concerned about her condition and the fact that she was semi-conscious. You could hear the shaking in the man`s voice and the woman`s voice who had gotten on that home -- a very, very scary scenario.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: As I said, Howard Samuels, you`re the addiction expert; if it is addiction of some sort, then there`s always a lot of wreckage and other people who are around you suffer -- quickly.
SAMUELS: Well, you know what, Jane, I mean I personally think this is an opportunity for her to really deal with her grief and loss. I mean obviously she is acting out and she hasn`t been able to deal with the horrific humiliation that her husband put her through because of the affair. So this is an opportunity for her to go to treatment, to really get help for her grief and loss and to come out --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I pray she does.
SAMUELS: -- on the other side in a positive way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I pray she does.
Back in a minute with your "Laugh Break".
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Back in a minute. But first we need a "Laugh Break".
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get it. Get it K-K. Blow it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re going to pass out.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s called aerial hunting. This is legal in certain parts of Alaska but now for the first time in Alaska`s history this will soon be legal for bears as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In many cases they can`t even hit the wolf from the air. What they do is they chase them until they are totally exhausted. And then they land and shoot them.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is there a war on bears in Alaska? That`s what we are asking tonight. You`re going to be looking right now at aerial hunting of wolves as you just saw. But there is also now a new uproar over report that wildlife officials have opened the door to the aerial hunting of bears in parts of Alaska. That flies in the face of a long time ban.
In aerial hunting, gunners and planes shoot down animals from the sky. It`s a highly-criticized practice. Tonight, a face-off: the Alaska Board of Games, David James versus PETA. Lisa Lange from the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals; why are you outraged over the push to gun down bears from the sky in Alaska? Lisa?
LISA LANGE, SR. VP OF COMMUNICATIONS, PETA: Jane, this is a state agency that is completely renegade. This is just a snapshot of what the Alaska Board of Game is doing to slaughter wildlife in Alaska. They are gassing wolf pups in their dens. They`re baiting and snaring bears. They have been killing wolves from helicopters and now they are opening it up to aerial shooting of bears.
And what this means is they are going to be using a sloppy, cruel and inexact way of killing bears. These animals can be shot, not killed outright because they are moving, as is the helicopter. These animals run into the woods. They run away. They`re injured. Sometimes they die slowly of starvation. They often leave orphaned pups. This is so cruel that some of the biggest trophy hunting associations in the world are opposed to it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, David James, Alaska Board of Game, what is your response, sir?
DAVID JAMES, ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH & GAME (via telephone): This is David James. First of all, I do not represent the Alaska Board of Game. I represent the Alaska Department of Fish & Game division of Wildlife Conservation. We are the agency that is planning to implement this particular program.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why? Why are you waging war against wildlife?
JAMES: We have a musk ox population in northeast Alaska that has undergone a precipitous decline. This is reduced now to last count about 190 animals. They are in eight to ten isolated groups scattered out over a management area of 15,500 square miles. We had a four-year research project that demonstrated that grizzly bear predation on the animals was the primary source of mortality.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what, sir? Are you saying -- you`re killing one animal to save another? Is that what you`re claiming? We`re going to kill these animals because we`re going to try to save another.
I don`t know. Lisa, your thoughts on the argument.
LANGE: This is absolutely wildlife mismanagement and he knows it. Wildlife populations control themselves. If you shoot a bear from a helicopter another bear will come and take the place of that animal. We have seen it over and over again. They are killing a small number of predators so that they can up the number of animals to be hunted by a very small number of people in Alaska who find that fun.
Most Alaskans are opposed to this. They love their wildlife. They don`t want this state agency to be declaring war on wildlife.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to get more on the other side. Remember, we`re having a debate here, but there is one group that can`t speak for themselves. That`s the animals and that`s why we are bringing this issue to you because these animals are voiceless. They cannot say help.
Next, more.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Claims in published reports are that they are also planning to expand the very cruel practice of baiting and snaring bears where they often die a slow, painful death. Mr. James, why? Why now? Baiting and snaring bears. Why are they the enemy?
JAMES: In this particular case we`re not talking about baiting and snaring bears. We are talking about removing selectively a few bears caught in the act of attacking or threatening to attack these isolated groups of musk oxen. We anticipate that that will be very few bears. It will be conducted just during April and May of the year.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you Lisa, are you going to fight this?
LANGE: Of course we`re going to fight this. They are snaring bears. They put a bucket of food out to bait these animals and then when they reach for the food their arms get caught in snares. It`s painful and it causes them to die of infection.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. Go to PETA if you`re interested.
"NANCY GRACE" next.
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