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Nancy Grace

Teen Girl Turns in High School Bomb Plotters

Aired January 27, 2012 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Right now, we head to the great Salt Lake, Roy, Utah, 30 miles north of Salt Lake City in Roy. Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, two teenage boys, one a high school senior, the other a sophomore, set to blow up the school with all 1,500 students inside.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was not idle chatter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two Utah high school students are accused of plotting to bomb their school during an assembly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s alarming, extremely alarming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two teens were plotting to set up bombs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegedly drawing up a detailed plan to blow up Roy High during an assembly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eighteen-year-old Dallin Morgan and a 16-year- old -- allegedly, they planned to set off explosives and escape in a stolen plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the intent and the goal of these young men?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the suspects told them that he was fascinated by the Columbine massacre.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was significant purpose and there had been some pre-planning and training.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A fellow student alerted school officials after he got a strange text.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. We head to the great Salt Lake, Roy, Utah. In the last hours, two teenage boys, one high school senior, the other a sophomore, set to blow up Roy High School with all 1,500 students inside. We learn the students had plotted -- high schoolers! -- to then take a plane out of the country. In fact, together they had logged hundreds of hours with an air flight simulator, an airplane simulator, practicing their escape.

We are taking your calls. And live in Salt Lake, straight out to Thelma Gutierrez, CNN correspondent joining us. What happened, Thelma?

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Nancy, what`s really interesting about this is that police were able to uncover this very elaborate plan based on a text message, Nancy, that allegedly one of the 16-year-old plotters had sent to a 16-year-old sophomore at the school.

Now, the Roy Police Department there in Utah sent us a redacted probable cause statement, Nancy, and I think that the message really tells you what they were planning. They were saying, "If I tell you not to go to school one day, make damn sure you and your brother are not there." The student also texted, "I get the feeling you know what I`m planning. It`s not all me, either. Dallin is in on it. He wants revenge on the world, too. We both want to. And we have a plan to get away with it, too."

GRACE: Straight out to Rita Cosby, WOR national radio host, investigative journalist. Rita, the plot foiled largely due to a 16-year- old girl -- a girl! But let`s back it up. What do we know? The plan was to blow up the school assembly area, the auditorium, apparently. And in fact, they had been planning this for months and months.

RITA COSBY, WOR RADIO HOST: Yes, and extremely detailed, Nancy, too. In fact, authorities actually found a map with one of the boys written in pen ink. And on the map, it showed certain locations in the school. It shows how much planning they were doing, and also areas of the surveillance cameras. And that`s fascinating. They were showing areas that were blind spots so those surveillance cameras could not detect them.

You can show that this was very complex. As also you mentioned, those on-line -- those simulators. They were planning this. And they also said that they had several guns.

GRACE: Now, take me back to the very beginning. With me is Rita Cosby. A plot just uncovered, two high school students, a senior and a sophomore, to our knowledge, set to blow up Roy High School with 1,500 students in it. The parents had no idea.

But isn`t it true, Rita Cosby, that one of these kids had actually built a pipe bomb?

COSBY: Yes, he did. This is the 16-year-old. Apparently, he had built a pipe bomb, and it had rocket fuel, gunpowder in it. He also claimed that the 18-year-old was able to purchase guns. And he claims that this 18-year-old actually had three guns, at least. We also know that they were planning this escape, had this airport nearby. This is extremely detailed and extremely complex.

And the other thing, it hearkens very much about Columbine, as you pointed out, Nancy, where he said to this other student -- that`s what tipped it off -- thank goodness for that courageous 16-year-old girl who reported it to authorities. But the 16-year-old wrote to the other 16- year-old in those text messages and said, If I tell you not to go to school one day, you know, please listen to me, basically -- very similar to what happened in Columbine.

GRACE: Now, where a kid gets ahold of rocket fuel, I don`t know. But it`s a big red flag right in your face when your son builds a pipe bomb and then graduates to this, hours and hours, hundreds of hours, months in the planning to blow up Roy High School.

Joining us right now out of Roy, Utah, Chief Greg Whinham, Roy Police Department, investigating the bomb plot. Chief, thank you so much for being with us tonight. I guess that when the police first heard this, it was a little hard to take in that a high school sophomore and senior planning to blow up the building with all the students in it, Chief.

CHIEF GREG WHINHAM, ROY POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Well, as the information came to us, we had a chance to assess what the initial messages were and realized that we had good control of both of the suspects in a very short period of time.

GRACE: What was their plan, to your understanding, Chief?

WHINHAM: Well, the plan was to -- they had a couple, actually. One was to actually leave a device inside of an auditorium where a large gathering would be for an assembly. And based on that plan being successful, they were going to escape, go to a nearby airport, steal a plane and fly it out to -- as they indicated, to a country that wouldn`t send them back to the United States.

GRACE: Well, as a matter of fact, it`s not that far-fetched because one of these students, the 16-year-old -- out to Frank DeAngelis, the principal of Columbine High School -- actually got a visit from the 16- year-old bombing suspect. This 16-year-old actually flies to Columbine. He`s so obsessed with the Columbine massacre that he flies to Columbine to meet in person with the principal.

Mr. DeAngelis, thank you for being with us.

FRANK DEANGELIS, COLUMBINE H.S. PRINCIPAL (via telephone): Oh, thank you.

GRACE: Mr. DeAngelis, when you first met the 16-year-old, what did he tell you as to why he was talking to you about the Columbine incident?

DEANGELIS: He was doing a report for his school newspaper and he wanted to talk to me about how Columbine healed, you know, how were we able to overcome the tragedy that occurred, programs. You know, he asked what are we doing for the students at Columbine. And I explained to him since the tragedy, you know, we have programs in place called the Links (ph) program, which is similar to a Big Brother/Big Sister program, where upperclassmen get together with freshmen students to help that transition from middle school to high school.

He said, What advice did you give to the kids over the years? You know, and I talked about acceptance, tolerance, valuing life, things of that nature. The questions that he asked me were very similar to questions that students that are on our newspaper staff would ask me.

GRACE: With me, the principal of Columbine High. In a very odd twist, a bizarre twist, in fact, these two teenage bombing suspects set to blow up Roy High School there in Utah with all 1,500 students at assembly - - one of them actually flies to Columbine to interview Columbine High`s principal, he was so obsessed with the Columbine massacre.

With me the principal who interviewed the 16-year-old. At no time did he indicate to you his plan to blow up Roy High, of course, right?

DEANGELIS: No. And when I talked to law enforcement agents from Utah -- I was contacted Wednesday -- and they just wanted to verify that this young man had actually come to Columbine. And I can`t remember the length of the interview. It was on December 15th. And I had him scheduled, I think, for a half hour at 11:00 AM.

And there was nothing that he asked about, you know, Where did the shooting occur, Where were the bombs placed, nothing to the specifics of the 20th. It was more of, you know, What is Columbine like after the shooting?

GRACE: Well, do you have any idea, Frank DeAngelis, how he got to Columbine? How did he get there?

DEANGELIS: He told me that he was in town, and I thought he had indicated to me that he was in town with family. They were here. It was - - and I don`t know if their school was on break, but we were getting ready to go on break. I think the 15th, if my memory serves me correctly, may have been a Wednesday and we were getting ready to go out on break, winter break.

And he just came in -- and I get requests probably weekly, one or two requests, kids e-mail me, college students e-mail me, high school students, middle school students that are doing projects about, you know, Columbine High School, and not necessarily about the events of the 20th, but you know, safety plans that we have in place...

GRACE: Right.

DEANGELIS: ... support systems that we have in place. So this was not uncommon...

GRACE: And of course, Frank DeAngelis, you had no idea that an attempted killer was sitting across the desk from you.

With me also, Chief Greg Whinham, Roy Police Department. Chief, how do you believe the 16-year-old got all the way to Columbine?

WHINHAM: Well, my understanding as the investigation has proceeded is that he, on his own, without the knowledge of his parents, flew out of Salt Lake City, landed in Denver, secured a car that had a chauffeured driver to take him to Columbine, then back to the airport, flew back to Salt Lake in the same day.

GRACE: Holy moly! Now he took a commercial plane, correct?

WHINHAM: Correct.

GRACE: He`s 16 years old. So I guess he had his driver`s license and that`s what he used for identification, Chief?

WHINHAM: Well, I`m not certain of that, but I know that he`s not old enough to rent a car and he had to acquire someone who would drive the car through some kind of a chauffeured car rental.

GRACE: To Jim Kirkwood, KTKK News, joining us tonight. Jim, the plot seems to get more and more elaborate. If anybody believes a 16-year-old and an 18-year-old can`t pull it off, this is proof that they can. What do you know, Jim Kirkwood?

JIM KIRKWOOD, KTKK NEWS RADIO (via telephone): On top of everything else, the 16-year-old was on the test team that was going to put in the sound system for today`s assembly. So they had not only motivation, but they appeared to have means to do it.

GRACE: Tonight, we learn a high school senior and sophomore set to bomb Roy High School, Utah, with all 1,500 students in the school, the plot so elaborate, only foiled by a single text.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are these two young people that looked ordinary to everybody?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The teens are described as average students.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighteen-year-old Dallin Morgan, along with a 16- year-old fellow student.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pre-planning and training.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spending hundreds of hours on an Internet flight simulator.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Allegedly, they planned to set off explosives and escape in a stolen plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the intent and the goal of these young men?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Plotting to set off bombs at their school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegedly drawing up a detailed plan to blow up Roy High during an assembly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? Why was there a threat?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say that one of the suspects told them that he was fascinated by the Columbine massacre and that he even went there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To interview the principal last year?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: In the nick of time, a plan to blow up Roy High School was foiled. Believe it or not, a high school senior and sophomore building a bomb to blow up their high school with all 1,500 students inside the school.

We are taking your calls. Out to Teri in Florida. Hi, Teri. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I wondered if we have any idea why they were planning to do this, if there was any motive at all.

GRACE: Yes, we do, as a matter of fact. To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, isn`t it true that the 16-year-old was dumped by his girlfriend?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, right, Nancy. That`s what other students are saying. And also in those texts that he sent, one of them said that he`s -- it sounds like he`s replying to a question, Why do you want to do this? He says, Life, plus a huge backstory that makes me hate people." And then he also said, "Another reason is I just don`t care. I`m pretty much a lying, cheating manipulator with everyone except seven people. Everyone else is just a piece."

GRACE: You know, Ellie Jostad, what more have we learned about these two classmates, a 16-year-old and an 18-year-old planning to blow up the whole school, even traveling to Columbine High to interview the principal there, so obsessed with the Columbine massacre, and planning to unleash the same violence on their own classmates?

Ellie, what more have we learned about these two from reading their FaceBook, their MySpace, their Twitter, their texts? What do we know, Ell?

JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, one thing that`s interesting is that other students say these were a couple of smart guys. The 16-year-old, they said, was more expected to be the next Einstein, instead of a school bomber.

But in these, you know, text messages and Twitter posts that they were putting up there, the 16-year-old describes himself as kind of being a jerk. He says, you know, I know I was a F-up, but I didn`t realize I was this bad. And a lot of texts just, you know, complaining about school, that kind of thing.

GRACE: Ellie, what can you tell me about an incident where two of his female classmates felt that he was keeping them in his vehicle without letting them go?

JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, these two students -- and I believe it`s two girls, I know at least one of them is a girl -- said that he -- they were supposed to go to some sort of haunted house with him. They were in his vehicle. But she said they felt like they couldn`t leave. He refused to take them home for hours. She said he played it off as a joke, but they actually felt they were being held captive by this guy.

GRACE: Ellie, what more do we know about these two? Their parents had no idea, I know that much, even though one of them had previously built a pipe bomb.

JOSTAD: Right. Well, that`s the thing, Nancy. Police say at this point that the parents are, you know, living a nightmare right now. It doesn`t appear that they were aware of what`s going on. But you`re right, one of the two guys, the 16-year-old, actually, bragged to the 18-year-old that he`d built this pipe bomb before. He`d blown up a mailbox. He claimed that he had three handguns at home.

GRACE: Joining me right now, Frank DeAngelis. This is the principal at Columbine High School. The 16-year-old actually flies from Utah to Columbine to meet with the principal face to face, lying to him, saying that he was writing a report, a story for the school paper back home in Roy.

To Frank DeAngelis. How is your family taking it the morning after, realizing that you were sitting across the desk from a kid set to blow up the high school?

DEANGELIS: Well, needless to say, when I received the phone call on Wednesday from the Utah police, it was shocking because for the past 13 years, I have been, you know, interviewing with kids or filling out questionnaires for kids and felt that, you know, if I could be a resource for any kids, to help them and the lessons learned since Columbine, that I wanted to do it. And when this young man came in, I remember he was very articulate. The questions were very professionally done.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out of Roy High School.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s alarming, extremely alarming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two Utah high school students.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighteen-year-old Dallin Morgan, along with a 16- year-old fellow student.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fascinated by the Columbine massacre.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was not idle chatter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Allegedly plotting to bomb their school during an assembly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? Why was there a threat?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Two high school boys set to blow up the high school with all 1,500 students inside, the plot foiled in the nick of time based on one text message one of the boys sent to a girl at the school.

To Judy in North Dakota. Hi, Judy. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call. My8 question is -- you know, this is just devastating news to everybody. And you know, I think that the schools -- if any school officials had any knowledge or any of the students acknowledged that these guys were acting differently, you know, if these young girls that were supposedly in the car with them, being held captive for a couple hours -- did they report it to the police? I mean, that might have, you know, got them more involved before, you know, it even got to this point.

GRACE: Good point. To Chief Greg Whinham, Roy Police Department, investigating the bomb plot. Chief, were there any red flags, other than one of them building a pipe bomb, for Pete`s sake?

WHINHAM: Well, the issue with the two young girls and the drive that alarmed them -- that was addressed both by the school administration and the school resource officer. I can`t speak to the things that the school does with their students as far as internal discipline. It was documented with us and is now part of the things that we`re building and looking at as far as behaviors that lead up to, to help us understand what got us to this point.

GRACE: Chief Whinham, what did you do when you first heard from the 16-year-old girl? Whom did she approach? What did she tell them? And what did the police do?

WHINHAM: Well, and this is where we`re successful and lessons that have been learned and preparations that have been ongoing, is what do you do when you have a threat at a school. One, you have to evaluate what is the threat, how imminent is the threat, and what resources do you need to activate to deal with the threat?

And we were able to, because of that heroic young lady going to an adult that she trusted, an administrator at the school, and then having a working relationship with the school and the administrator...

GRACE: Right.

WHINHAM: ... to put together that initial stuff.

GRACE: So Ellie, what did the text to her say, and who did she approach?

JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, she got a text that said, If I told you not to come to school one day, would you do it? And she apparently approached a teacher-administrator there at the school. They brought in the resource officer, who told police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighteen-year-old Dallin Morgan, along with a 16- year-old fellow student.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accused of plotting to bomb their school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of them hinting of an attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why was there a threat? What was going on?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was not idle chatter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two Utah high school students are accused of plotting to bomb their school during an assembly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s alarming. Extremely alarming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two teens plotting to set off bombs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegedly drawing up a detailed plan to blow up Roy high during an assembly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 18-year-old Dallin Morgan and a 16-year-old allegedly planned to set off explosives and escape in a stolen plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were the intent and the goal of the young men?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the suspects was fascinated by the columbine massacre.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was significant purpose and there have been some pre-planning and training.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A fellow student actually alerted school officials after he got a strange text.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Some preplanning. Think about hours. Hours. Hundreds of hours working with a flight simulator to fly a plane, gathering material to create a bomb, strategizing as to blind spots in all the security cameras inside Roy High School.

To Rita Cosby, WOR national radio host. Rita, give me a recap. What do we know tonight?

RITA COSBY, WOR NATIONAL RADIO HOST, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: We know the boys have been arrested. The 18-year-old Dallin Morgan and also the 16-year-old. They are now out, but authorities are investigating. We know that, as you pointed out, they were planning a very elaborate explosive attack on this school, on Roy High School.

They were angry. They sent out a text. Luckily the 16-year-old sent a text to a 16-year-old friend who tipped off authorities said the other thing, Nancy, tonight. I think the most important thing is that these boys, when they were arrested. I want to say kudos to the police chief and the school. Because these boys, when they were arrested, they talked about columbine and then they said in the case of columbine remember, 13 people were killed; 12 students, one teacher. It was a very horrific case there, as you know.

And in that case they were saying that it was basically peanuts. They only carried out one percent of what the plan was. And these boys claim they were a lot smarter than the boys in columbine. So, they were planning something very deadly and something very serious.

GRACE: Ellie Jostad, Rita is right. Tell me what exactly these two had to say about the columbine massacre?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRADE REPORTER: Right. Well, like Rita said, they said they were going to plan a more deadly plot. The 16-year-old said he didn`t want to be compared to the columbine killers because he was smarter than they were and he was going to be more successful.

GRACE: To Jim Kirkwood, KTKK, joining us. Jim, right now, we know that the parents apparently had no idea what was going. But it`s true that one of the boys had actually build a pipe bomb. And if I know that now certainly they knew at the time.

Another one of the students actually flew, flew to columbine and met with the principal one on one. They were so obsessed with the columbine massacre and planning to unleash the same violence there at Roy High School had it not been for one little girl that got a text from them.

So Jim, how did the parents not know what was going on? They have both spent hundreds of hours of a flight simulator, for Pete`s sake?

JIM KIRKWOOD, REPORTER, KTKK NEWS RADIO (via telephone): Well, apparently these kids think they`re smart. And maybe they were fooling their parents but I agree with you, Nancy. How could the parent not know this sort of thing?

We asked the same thing at columbine and we are asking it again. Pipe bombs, you know, buying the rocket fuel, you can get it at the hobby store but the gunpowder, a 16-year-old can`t buy. And if it`s a pistol-type powder, gunpowder the 18-year-old couldn`t buy that. You have to be 21 unless there was some around the house that they were taking from one of their fathers, something like that.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, Peter Odom, deputy defense attorney.

Alright Renee, what`s your best defense for these two teens? One can already be treated as an adult and the other will be treated as an adult.

RENEE ROCKWELL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Depending which one I had, it certainly seem like the 16-year-old was the mastermind. This is not a case that`s going to trial, Nancy. This is going to be a case where the child is evaluated. And do we decide we lock him up and throw away the key or can he be rehabilitated? We would focus more on some type of a mental evaluation.

GRACE: Peter Odom, evaluated?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly. Very first thing, Nancy. There is no question there is a mental imbalance here. And the first thing I`m going to do --

GRACE: Why do you say that? Why do you always say there is a mental imbalance. Have you not met anyone that just does something sinister? They don`t have to be mentally ill, Peter.

ODOM: We`re talking about children that want to kill people, Nancy. I think that screams of getting them immediately in to be evaluated. Maybe the psychiatrist says they`re normal but at least it`s the obvious question. You immediately do that and see where the chips fall. Then you talk about what kind of the defense you bring.

GRACE: Alright, Dr. Leslie Seppinni, clinical psychologist, author of "Who is Casey Anthony?" Dr. Leslie, here`s the deal. Insanity under the law is not knowing right from wrong at the time of the incident itself. Not at the time of trial. That`s a cause of citizen in trial. Insanity is not knowing right from wrong at the time of the incident. That`s our legal standard.

And by concealing everything they were doing and such elaborate planning shows they were not insane. And what are the odds of two high schoolers both beg insane? Pretty low. Weigh in.

LESLIE SEPPINNI, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR, WHO IS CASEY ANTHONY?: Pretty low. Absolutely. I mean, this is sociopathic behavior. I mean, look, they may be 16 and 18, but we are looking in the face of the beginning of real evil is. When you talk about a massacre of multiple people, you`re really talking on the line of a serial killer.

They want people to know. They wanted the chief of police to know and the principal to know after they did this, how stupid they were. They want to be famous. They feel rejected. They feel isolated. I mean, these are classic cases of what sociopaths do. And I don`t think it`s any accident that they behaved the way they have.

And just to address the home issue, which I find very, very disturbing. We`re talking about a very grave issue of neglect. How these parents could not have seen the computer, seen them isolated, seen them staying away, maybe having hostile behavior, maybe having conduct disorder acting out behavior, violent tendencies at school. This couldn`t have just happened in just some little isolated bubble.

GRACE: Out to lines. Catt in South Carolina. Hi, Catt. What`s your question?

CATT, CALLER, SOUTH CAROLINA: Nancy, my hero. Thank you so much. One of the things I can`t help but agree with is about, the home. I`m not trying to bash the parents whatsoever, but home is where we learn our morals, our sense of right and wrong, respect. Is there parental supervision? How could this go under the nose of the parents?

But, everything starts at home. And something is so wrong somewhere that the kids think that it`s OK to kill somebody to get the attention they need.

GRACE: Now, back to chief Greg Whinham. Did the parents have no idea what was going on, chief?

CHIEF GREG WHINHAM, ROY POLICE DEPARTMENT, INVESTIGATING PLOT: Well, in our interaction with the parents, it`s been positive. Obviously now they`re worried about the circumstance that their children are in and our contact with them is now limited. But, everything we have heard at this point in time is that they have no indication or concerns that they felt needed to go forward to law enforcement.

GRACE: Chief Whinham, did one of the sets of parents know their son had created a pipe bomb recently?

WHINHAM: I`m not aware of that. I`m not sure of the circumstances around that.

GRACE: OK. To Dr. Bill Lloyd, board certified surgeon, pathologist. Dr. Lloyd, thank you so much for being with us. I just wonder, with all the research these two had done on columbine if they understood the incredible pain and suffering children go through when their school is bombed. For instance, what kind of injuries would you expect to see in an explosive blast, Dr. Lloyd?

DR. BILL LLOYD, M.D., BOARD CERTIFICATE SURGEON, PATHOLOGIST: Good evening, Nancy. Imagine your own high school assemblies from the past where they pack everybody in real tight. We are talking 1,500-plus people here. It would not take much of an explosive device. The kill radius would be 100, 200 feet and you could wipe them out with the use of a little shrapnel, some nails, some BBs (ph), rocket fuel, diesel fuel, ammonia nitrate fertilizer and you have the formula for a mass destructive, mass casualty incident.

GRACE: What would a student, a person, go through, the suffering they would endure in an explosive blast, Dr. Lloyd?

LLOYD: In addition to the concussive effects, the shock of the blast there of course, would be shrapnel everywhere. So, we are talking about severe external injuries, lacerations, lost limbs, but also, Nancy, severe life-threatening internal injuries to the brain and deep organs from the penetration of the shrapnel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leaving them with a bigger question regarding the suspects. Why? Why was there a threat? What was going on?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The teens are described as average students. No word from the suspects or their attorneys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two Utah high school students are accused of plotting to bomb their school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 18-year-old Dallin Morgan along with a 16-year-old fellow student.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is significant enough that it`s alarming. Extremely alarming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say another student tipped them off after she got text messages from one of them, hinting of an attack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Allegedly they planned to set off explosives and escape in a stolen plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To steal an airplane from a local airport and flee without being apprehended.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fascinated by the columbine massacre and that even went there to interview the principal last year?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now facing conspiracy charges for allegedly drawing up a detailed plan to blow up Roy high.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were the intent and the goal of the young men?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Two high school students, a senior and a sophomore, set to blow up their high school there, 30 miles south of Salt Lake City in Roy, Utah. With all the students, all 1,500 of them in the building.

We are taking your calls. We understand they lost hundreds of hours on a flight simulator. T.J. Ward, private investigator. T.J., what is the leap from a flight simulator, hundreds and hundreds of hours practicing flying, to actually flying.

For all I know these two had actually practiced, flown. We know the plan was to blow up the building, go to an airstrip and leave. They had researched on countries that would not extradite them back to the U.S.

T.J. WARD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, POLYGRAPH, VOICE ANALYSIS EXPERT: Well Nancy, flight simulator is use n flight training. I`m a pilot and - but, actually getting into an airplane and taking it off may be another story. We don`t know what kind of aircraft they were looking to take whether it was a jet or aircraft. So, that may play a part. We need to take these boys very serious though because these hate crimes in schools are incredible.

GRACE: And T.J., it`s incredible to me the elaborate nature of the plan and how far they had actually gone with the plan.

Joining me right now is a very special guest, this is the father of Daniel Rohrbough. This is Brian Rohrbough, who was father Daniel, the father of a columbine victim. Brian, thank you for being with us.

BRIAN ROHRBOUGH, DANIEL ROHRBOUGH`S FATHER: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for having me.

GRACE: Brian, I hate to bring you out with circumstances like this. But it seems to me that the pain and suffering of columbine has been forgotten by many. When you hear of this very disturbing development tonight what is your response?

RORHBOUGH: Well, I have many responses. The first one is thank God they weren`t able to complete their plan. That`s my first response. There is something to celebrate there.

But in terms of these types of actions in people wanting to glorify columbine, I`m not surprised at all by this. Keep in mind that Clebold and Harris actually mocked one of the previous school shootings before columbine saying the exact same thing. They were saying it was a lame attack. It didn`t go far enough. The guy didn`t know what he was doing. And they were much smarter than he was.

GRACE: I remember that, Brian. I remember that. What are the rest of your thoughts tonight?

RORHBOUGH: Well, obviously I don`t want to see anyone`s child hurt or murdered in a public school or anywhere else. But the truth of the matter is we are fortunate in this case that this was stopped, but we certainly shouldn`t be assuming that the schools are safe because they are not. There have been many, many, many murders since columbine in public schools.

And we should be looking deep into what the problems are. One of your guests referred to these guys as being evil. That`s a correct assessment. Making excuses for them is a very bad idea. And this type of behavior, we should be looking of course at the home and let`s talk there but what about the curriculum at the school?

Keep in mind that this school, like every other school, teaches there are no absolutes, no right or wrong, not in an absolute sense. And so, here you have someone going to carry out a murder and the very core teaching of the school suggests they can`t even condemn them for the action because they have been teaching, there is no absolute right or wrong. And let me tell you, this type of activity, wanting to murder innocent people is always wrong.

GRACE: With me is Brian Rohrbough, this is Daniel`s father, a victim of columbine, massacre in Columbine l.

Liz, let me see the columbine video, please. It seems as if tonight we need to remember this. Look at the video. See the children running for their lives. And now, imagine your child running out of the building.

Tonight, thanks to Chief Greg Whinham and one brave high school girl, a similar high school bombing has been diverted.

And now, CNN heroes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was literally sitting in my trailer at "the office." And I was looking at the CNN Web site, not the CNN Heroes. I think it was in the first year. And I saw this story on this guy, Aaron Jackson. This is a young kid from Florida, grew up on a golf course. Didn`t have really much direction in his life. And then he went traveling in the third world and he saw poverty. And he decided to just devote his life to making the world a better place.

AARON JACKSON, CNN HEROES: Today we have de-wormed estimated maybe a little over a hundred people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s been great to help out Aaron Jackson by doing fund-raisers. We have introduced him to people to help raise money and just help his organization really get moving.

He`s the amazing guy doing all the really hard work. You know, give him the cash and just let him do what he does best. They have four or five orphanages in Haiti. I also went out when they distributed the de-worming medication out in the rural villages and towns.

You`re distributing food, aid, all around the country. So many kids can be, you know, eating their fill but because they are so filled with worms they are unable to digest and process the food, so it`s really just kind of a waste.

JACKSON: You de-worm a kid and the worms shoot out within 24, 48 hours. You see a kid who`s anemic, not alert. Rid them of worms and they come back to life. And that`s what to me is just amazing. You see this immediate impact.

Since the hero segment in 2007, we have actually raised enough money with brains out to de-worm every child in Haiti, all 2.3 million kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone can be a hero, it just takes a little bit of work.

There`s one thing I could take from my experience with CNN heroes, these stories are incredibly inspiring. They inspire me to step up my game and try and do more to help the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A high school student accused of plotting to bomb their school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detailed plan to blow up Roy high during an assembly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Allegedly plotting the bomb their school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alarming, extremely alarming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Allegedly, they planned to set off explosives and escape in a stolen plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 18-year-old Dallin Morgan along with a 16-year-old fellow students.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was not idle chatter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why was there a threat? Why? Why was there a threat? Why? Why?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Tonight, we are live, 30 miles north of Salt Lake near the great Salt Lake itself. Two high schoolers, a senior and sophomore set to blow up Roy High School with all 1500 students in it.

We are taking calls. To Charlotte in Kansas. Hi Charlotte, what`s your question?

CHARLOTTE, CALLER, KANSAS: Hi, Nancy, glad to hear from you and for you to take my call.

GRACE: Thank you.

CHARLOTTE: I am so very glad this was foiled and I appreciate that little girl for turning in the boys. I have two questions. One, is the girl who received a text, is she being protected in case in any way in case they had someone that perhaps wanted revenge on her. And my other question is they`re 16 and 18. Were they taught how to fly, and if so, whose plane were they going to use?

GRACE: They were going to steal a plane, I know that much. Ellie Jostad, is the girl who basically foiled this bombing, is she under protection?

JOSTAD: Nancy, I can`t answer that question. That`s not clear right now. But that`s something that we will try to find out.

GRACE: I know this much, she better be.

Let`s stop and remember army sergeant Bryce Howard, 24, Vancouver, Washington, killed in Afghanistan. Bronze star, purple heart, army commendation. Loved motorcycles, football, fishing, snowboard, video games with his son, with a smile that lit up a room, a contagious laugh. Leaves behind parents Dean and Annette. Sister Casey, brother James. Widow, Amber, sons Caleb and Ryan. Bryce Howard, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us, and a special good night from the New York control room. Good night Bret, our director, Liz, our backbone. There`s Rosie. There`s Dana.

Happy eighth birthday too little California crime fighter, Xavier. Second grader, loves baseball. He is the boy viewers help get a life saving kidney transplant from hero donor Samuel. Here he is with the doctor at children`s hospital in San Diego. Happy birthday.

And happy birthday to Hayden, mother of three traveling with family to Virginia beach.

Everyone, see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END