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Nancy Grace
Blood of Missing Maine 20-Month-Old Found in Father`s Basement
Aired January 30, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Maine. 8:00 PM, Daddy puts his 20-month-old baby girl to bed. 9:00 AM, she`s gone, snatched from her own home. Just hours before she disappears, Mommy secretly goes to court, fighting for full custody. She never sees her baby girl again.
Bombshell tonight. In a stunning development, blood found in the basement of Daddy`s home is that of 1-and-a-half-year-old Ayla. Daddy sleeps in the basement. The baby`s blood is found in the basement, cops say part of the blood visible to the naked eye. But more of baby Ayla`s blood found by the use of high-tech CSI tool luminol.
And tonight, police cry foul on Daddy`s story and insist Ayla did not walk out of the house on her own. They say they have grave doubts Ayla was ever kidnapped from the home at all. When cops confront Daddy with the crime scene photos of Ayla`s blood, Daddy rushes out of the police station, now even reportedly refusing to cooperate.
After public pressure to take a polygraph, does Daddy fail the lie- detector test? He tells us, quote, "The test is irrelevant." Tonight, where is baby Ayla?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The search for Ayla continues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she OK? Is she laying somewheres dead? Is she safe?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two dozen Mainers gather for an emotional vigil for 21-month-old Ayla Reynolds. The gathering of hope turns somber after news broke Maine State Police found blood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The blood in DePietro`s house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blood that we found in the basement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s not Ayla`s blood!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the quantity involved, we do find that very troubling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Blood was found in the basement of Ayla`s father`s home on 29 Violet Avenue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want to know what my reaction is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This family again has gone through hell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m ready to go knocking at people`s doors myself because I want to know what happened to my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we have been told is, obviously, someone came into that home, grabbed Ayla and vanished in the middle of the night. But at this point, we have not found one piece of evidence to back that up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s why police are now saying that DiPietro, his sister and his girlfriend, who were all home that night, are not being completely honest with investigators about what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justin DiPietro attended the vigil in honor of his daughter but refused to answer questions about the blood evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, I`m not here to answer any questions. I`m just here to show my support.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My whole insides just kind of felt like they crumbled. I was just told over maybe 24 hours ago right now that blood was found, and I don`t want it to be real.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Baby Ayla`s blood discovered in the basement of Daddy`s home.
We are taking your calls. Straight out to CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti, joining us. Susan, what happened?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we found out over the weekend that, in fact, blood was found in the basement of that home, the very same basement where Justin DiPietro, Ayla`s father, lives and sleeps.
Now, we don`t know exactly where in the basement the blood was found and we don`t precisely -- we know part of it was Ayla`s. The rest of it, authorities are still waiting for lab results from other blood they said was found that was not visible to the naked eye. Some was, some wasn`t.
GRACE: You know, Susan, this is a huge development, but I`ve got even more questions every time I hear an answer. Let me just go through what you`ve just told us because you told us volumes. And one quick sound bite. OK, first of all, I`m hearing this. Part of the blood was visible to the naked eye. That means other blood was invisible to the naked eye. They had to use luminol.
Now, when blood is invisible, that typically means, Susan Candiotti, that it is not a smear, it is not a blood drop -- like you got a nosebleed and blood drops from your nose. That`s a very different marking than a blood spatter. Very typically, when blood is invisible to the naked eye, Susan, that means it is blood spatter.
Where do we get blood spatter? We get it from a high-velocity impact. We get it from a gunshot wound. We know it was not a gunshot because no one heard a gunshot.
That leads me to another question, Susan. Number one, the blood that was invisible to the naked eye, what type of a blood marking was it? And also, this revelation that someone else`s blood may have been mixed in with Ayla`s, or they found other blood that is not Ayla`s -- tell me again, Susan.
CANDIOTTI: Yes. There are just -- you`re right, Nancy. Every time you hear one thing, it leads to so many other questions. We don`t know all the answers. Police are only saying so much, and other sources that I`m talking with.
yes, I can`t answer what form that other blood took, but you certainly laid out a number of possibilities. Some of it, they said, was visible. And that amount, evidently, according to Ayla`s mother -- she posted on her Web site that it was more than the amount that would come from a cut. That`s all we know. And police will not confirm anything that she is putting out about how much blood was found.
The blood that was invisible -- police went in there, as you know, on day one and did a search. That`s when they found this blood. And they`re only revealing now that they found it. So that`s another question. Why now? But they found it using, as you said, that chemical luminol. And it turns a different color and makes it visible to the authorities.
GRACE: Straight out to Woodrow Tripp, former police commander. Exactly how does luminol work, Woody?
WOODROW TRIPP, FMR. POLICE COMMANDER: Well, Nancy, it`s sprayed and it`s placed on areas where blood is suspected or some other bodily substance is suspected to be.
GRACE: Back to you, Susan Candiotti. The statement that it was more blood than would come from a cut -- it`s my understanding police have said that, as well. That`s where the mom is getting it.
CANDIOTTI: That`s right.
GRACE: Police said this was more blood than would come from a normal cut. Now, I find that very, very disturbing because if it didn`t come from a normal cut, where did it come from?
And also, Susan Candiotti, you`re stating that police found this but are just now revealing it. Let`s talk about what we were just looking at, the layout of the home. What do we know about the layout of the home?
Susan, at the very beginning, we heard two babies sleeping in one room. We know Ayla`s dad`s girlfriend there, his sister there. And both of them have a child with them. There are three adults and three babies. We were told baby Ayla in the room with somebody else. But now we`re getting a different story.
Where`s Daddy saying he was that night, and where was baby Ayla?
CANDIOTTI: Sure. We were led to speculate a lot of things in the beginning because police weren`t putting out information. I`ve been in the house. I can tell you this. It`s a very small house. It`s a one-story house.
Here`s the setup. You were showing that graphic. You have Justin, who lives in the basement, and then you have three bedrooms that are upstairs. You have baby Ayla`s bedroom. After she disappeared, I was told that Ayla and her cousin both had bed set-ups in there. But at the time, police are now saying that Ayla had her own bedroom and was sleeping there. Across a very small...
GRACE: Well, hold on, Susan.
CANDIOTTI: Yes?
GRACE: Susan, let me add into what you`re saying. I want you to add this into the mix.
Everybody, we are taking your calls tonight. Bombshell. Baby Ayla`s blood, a 1-and-a-half-year-old baby girl, has been found in the basement of Daddy`s home. Daddy sleeps in that basement.
I want to go back to what you were saying, where everybody was sleeping that night. You got Daddy, Daddy`s girlfriend, Daddy`s sister. They`re all in the home. Each one of them has a separate child.
CANDIOTTI: That`s right.
GRACE: According to ABC News, the father told them he was sleeping with Ayla that night. Now, I know a lot gets lost in translation. But by my count, you`ve got that story, according to ABC News. You`ve got the story that the two infants were sleeping together in a bedroom. Now we`ve got another story, Ayla is upstairs sleeping by herself, where Daddy and girlfriend are sleeping in the basement with her son.
Is that the most recent story you know, Susan?
CANDIOTTI: That`s the most recent story I have. Plus, you also have Ayla`s aunt, who also has a little girl, and she was sleeping with her daughter in her first floor bedroom. So you`ve got three bedrooms upstairs and Justin downstairs.
GRACE: With me, CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti. She has been in the home. Susan, when you went into the basement, what did you observe?
CANDIOTTI: Didn`t go down to the basement, but I could see into the basement. And that is where Jason (SIC) spends his time. He was down there, but didn`t invite me downstairs.
GRACE: Got you. Susan Candiotti joining us and taking your calls.
To John DePetro, WPRO host. John, not only this, Mommy and Daddy unite just recently at a public appearance, and they look like they got along great. I mean, if the baby daddy in my life wasn`t coming clean, oh, you know, I`d have a few words with him.
But also we learned that when police confront Daddy with the crime scene photos of Ayla`s blood, he gets so freaked out, he gets up and leaves the police station, DePetro.
JOHN DEPETRO, WPRO: That`s right, Nancy. That`s the word, that when they first confronted him with those photos, that he walked out. It was interesting to see the parents for the first time since little Ayla went missing, that they were together, they had some very private conversations. But make no mistake, Nancy, Justin DiPietro did not want to talk about the blood on Saturday.
GRACE: I noticed that. People kept asking him questions and he wouldn`t comment on it. And he and the mom were all hugging all over each other. Whatever!
Unleash the lawyers, Darryl Cohen, defense attorney, Atlanta, Lorna Owens, defense attorney, Miami. All right, Darryl Cohen, when your client is confronted with blood evidence in his basement where he sleeps -- that`s his room in his mom`s house -- he gets up and runs out of the police station? That`s not a good look, Darryl.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, actually, I think it`s a very good look, Nancy. He can`t face it. His daughter has disappeared, may be dead. And if he`s playing a game -- he may be playing a game, he may be real. But I wouldn`t know how I would face it if one of my daughters -- if that happened to one of them.
GRACE: Well, Lorna, how about asking questions about it, asking questions about how it got there, what kind of blood evidence was it, crying, you know, showing grief, instead of jumping up from the table and taking off? What about that?
LORNA OWNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, we have to be mindful that people react differently to trauma.
GRACE: Oh, here you go!
OWENS: And basically, as Darryl says, that might be the reaction. He is now perhaps facing that his daughter has passed away. So I don`t see that as an issue.
GRACE: All right. All right. I`ll go with that. With me right now is a special guest, Stephen McCausland, spokesman from the Maine State Police, just joining us. Sir, thank you for being with us. What can you tell us about the blood evidence that we`re hearing about tonight?
STEPHEN MCCAUSLAND, MAINE STATE POLICE (via telephone): Thanks for having me on, Nancy. And I want to compliment you. I know last week, you devoted 40 minutes one night to this case. It means a lot to the people of Maine that it`s still in the headlines and still being discussed nationally. And I thank you for that.
I want to -- the blood -- Susan basically revealed what we`ve talked about. We`ve confirmed there was blood in the basement, and we`ve confirmed that some of those samples were Ayla`s. We haven`t discussed the quantity, nor am I going to tonight. But we find the discovery of the blood troubling.
GRACE: I agree with you. With me, spokesman from the Maine State Police, Stephen McCausland. They`ve been looking 24/7 trying to find baby Ayla. They have revealed one way or the other that they do not buy the family`s story that there was an intruder that took the baby. Nobody heard a thing, no forced entry. In fact, they say they don`t believe baby Ayla was ever kidnapped or that she walked off on her own.
Stephen, I understand you`re not -- you can`t give me a lot. But can you tell me what type of a blood stain was it, was it a drop, was it a smear or was it spatter?
MCCAUSLAND: I can`t get into any of those details, Nancy, other than I can confirm some of the blood was Ayla`s.
GRACE: Was it in a bathroom?
MCCAUSLAND: Again, same answer. Sorry.
GRACE: OK, Stephen. I`m going to try again. You can`t accuse me of giving up easily. Was it in Daddy`s bedroom?
MCCAUSLAND: Don`t mind the questions, but don`t mind my answers. We`re not getting into that, Nancy.
GRACE: With me, spokesman for the Maine State Police, Stephen McCausland.
Bombshell tonight. After weeks of looking and trying our best to help find baby Ayla, the sobering discovery baby Ayla`s blood is found in the family basement where Daddy sleeps.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened that night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We think they know more than they`re telling us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are now saying that DiPietro, his sister and his girlfriend, who were all home that night...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hundreds of pieces of potential evidence was taken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Blood was found in the basement of Ayla`s father`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are not being completely honest with investigators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s very frustrating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone came into the home and abducted Ayla from her bed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have not found one piece of evidence to back that up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Waiting for the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody in that family have the guts to come up and tell the state police who has her or where she is so we can bring her home once and for all!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not here to answer any questions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t have the answers that you guys are looking for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Haven`t we all suffered enough, including Ayla?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Steps away from Phoebe (ph) DiPietro`s living room, seen here, is Ayla`s bedroom she shared with her cousin, who was untouched that night. Her face is blurred. After Ayla vanished, her grandmother told detectives some things around the house didn`t look the same.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some oddities that I had noticed, and we told the law enforcement, you know, what those were.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would not reveal them to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. A stunning development in the search for 1-and-a-half-year-old baby Ayla, Waterville, Maine. Blood found in the basement of Daddy`s home is absolutely that of Ayla`s, police confirming. It`s more than she would have bled from a cut. Tonight, we`re trying to find out what type of a blood spatter, smear or dropping it is. And apparently, there`s somebody else`s blood there, too.
With me, special guest Stephen McCausland, spokesman from the Maine State Police. You know, that`s interesting that the family says there were other oddities around the home. But Stephen McCausland, according to what we`ve been told, nothing was stolen and there was no forced entry. What oddity could there have been except for the baby was gone?
MCCAUSLAND: We have seized hundreds of items of potential evidence from inside that home over a two-week period in December. And there is not one piece of evidence at this point that leads us to believe that an abduction took place.
That`s why we`re looking and asking these thee adults that were there that night, that we think that one of them has information that they haven`t told us and -- because the story of Ayla being abducted just does not pass the straight face test.
GRACE: You know, Maine -- the Maine population is known for being very matter-of-fact and straightforward in a good way. When you say, Stephen McCausland, their story does not pass the straight face test, what do you mean by that?
MCCAUSLAND: We think that they know more than they`re telling us because the -- because of what I just said. And Susan was in the house. It`s a small home. Someone came in that door, went into Ayla`s room, grabbed her and they vanished in the middle of the night with three adults inside that home and didn`t see or hear anything? It doesn`t make sense.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police in Maine are searching frantically.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have worked night and day trying to find Ayla.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daughter`s mysterious disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know what happened to my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The blood evidence...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That we found in the basement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: DiPietro refused comment about the blood that was found in his home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This family, again, has gone through hell, and I`m tired of it!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. A stunning blow to the family of baby Ayla. They discover blood in Daddy`s basement, is in fact, that of baby Ayla`s. With me, special guests Susan Candiotti, CNN national correspondent, along with Stephen McCausland, the spokesman from the Maine State Police.
Back to you, Susan Candiotti. The family says there are other oddities in the home the morning when they realize Ayla`s gone? Number one, Susan, you know my twins. No way are they going to sleep all night from 8:00 PM to 9:00 AM. That`s just not going to happen. I go in there to make sure they`re still breathing if they go over three or four hours without waking up for something. So right there, I`ve got a problem with the story.
But what other oddities are they talking about or could they be talking about, Susan Candiotti?
CANDIOTTI: Well, that`s a very good question, Nancy. You know, obviously, I tried to find out, What oddities are you talking about, and the answer I got was, We told the police what the oddities were. We told them everything.
You heard what Stephen McCausland had to say just now, that he doesn`t think police have the full story. They`ve gathered a ton of evidence. They`re trying to analyze that evidence. And as you heard him say, they find nothing to indicate that someone broke into that house. So what the oddities were, I don`t know.
GRACE: Back to Stephen McCausland, spokesman from the Maine State Police. He is here and he is taking your calls. He may not answer your question, but he`s taking your question.
Stephen, again, thank you for being with us. I want to go back to the whole theory that there were oddities, as the family says, about that, that next morning when they woke up. Oddities such as what, Stephen?
MCCAUSLAND: Again, what Phoebe told investigators is something we`re keeping to ourselves.
GRACE: OK.
MCCAUSLAND: Obviously, this is a major investigation, Nancy. You understand that.
GRACE: I do.
MCCAUSLAND: And there are some things we can talk about and then some things we just can`t.
GRACE: Well, I know this. In response to my question, you said, We took hundreds of items from that home. In other words, whatever oddity they said they found, you got it. You know what it is and you`ve investigated it. I hear you loud and clear, Stephen McCausland.
Stephen, is there any link to the fact that the mom went to court the day before to try to get full custody of the baby girl? Did the daddy know that?
MCCAUSLAND: Dad did not know that at all.
GRACE: Everyone, with us, Stephen McCausland, spokesman for the Maine State Police. When we get back, a look inside Ayla`s home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maine State Police found blood at the house where the Waterville toddler was last seen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:
MCCAUSLAND: DiPietro refused to comment about the blood that was found in his home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know what happened to my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We still don`t think we`re getting the complete story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The search for Ayla continues.
TRISTA REYNOLDS, MOTHER OF MISSING 20-MONTH-OLD AYLA REYNOLDS: Is she OK? Is she laying somewhere dead? Is she safe?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Two dozen Mainers gather for an emotional vigil for 21-month-old Ayla Reynolds. The gathering of hope turns somber after news broke Maine State Police found blood.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The blood in DiPietro`s house --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blood that we found in the basement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was not Ayla`s blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the quantity involved we do find that very troubling.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Blood was found in the basement of Ayla`s father`s home on 29 Violet Avenue.
REYNOLDS: Do you want to know what my reaction is?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This family again has gone through hell.
REYNOLDS: I`m ready to go knocking at people`s doors myself because I want to know what happened to my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we have been told is obviously someone came into that home, grabbed Ayla and vanished in the middle of the night. But at this point we have not found one piece of evidence to back that up.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That`s why police are now saying that DiPietro, his sister and his girlfriend, who were all home that night, are not being completely honest with investigators about what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Justin DiPietro attended the vigil in honor of his daughter but refused to answer questions about the blood evidence.
JUSTIN DIPIETRO, FATHER OF MISSING 20-MONTH-OLD AYLA REYNOLDS: Again, I`m not here to answer any questions. I`m just here to show my support.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My whole insides just kind of felt like they crumbled. I was just told over maybe 24 hours ago right now that blood was found and I don`t want it to be real.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If police are any closer to finding a little girl who loves to dance, they haven`t yet said so. Police suspect foul play but have revealed virtually nothing about what they do know. From the start of the investigation, police have refused to say who was home the night Ayla vanished.
CNN has learned who wasn`t there. The child`s paternal grandmother, Phoebe DiPietro. Contrary to what she first told CNN.
(On camera): You didn`t hear any noise?
PHOEBE DIPIETRO, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING 20-MONTH-OLD AYLA REYNOLDS: I did not hear anything.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She didn`t hear anything because she was somewhere else. Another location she declined to publicly disclose. But she says police have known exactly where she was since the start of the investigation.
Ayla`s grandmother says detectives told her not to reveal anything about what happened that night so protect the integrity of the investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. A bombshell today. We learned that baby Ayla`s blood in daddy`s basement. What does it mean? Cops confirming there is more blood that they would have anticipated from a normal cut.
With us, CNN national correspondent, Susan Candiotti. Also with us, spokesman from the Maine State Police, Stephen McCausland.
You know, Stephen, it feels like I`m Alice in Wonderland. Everything is upside down because I tell you something, whoever had my child when they go missing, I would not have snagged up to them and give them a peck on the cheek. All right? I`m not inciting violence, Stephen. I`m not. But I would definitely have taken a swing at them. All right?
Fine, I`ll just put that out there. But Stephen, the police are saying, quote, "Not one piece of evidence to back that up, that being the forced entry or the kidnap.
What do you mean not one piece of evidence? You mean no window was up, no marks on the door, what does that mean not one piece of evidence?
STEPHEN MCCAUSLAND, SPOKESMAN, MAINE STATE POLICE: It means simply that of the hundreds of pieces of potential evidence that we have seized from inside that home, we had found nothing yet to back up the story of an abduction. And we have grave doubts that that ever happened.
GRACE: Stephen, another question. Part of the blood that was Ayla`s that you found in daddy`s basement, and I`m referring to daddy`s basement, this is mother`s home. You said or it`s been stated was visible to the naked eye, but the other portion was not. It was found by Luminol. Was the blood close together, the blood that was visible and invisible?
MCCAUSLAND: Again, asking for more specifics, Nancy, that I can`t get into. But you are correct, some of the blood was visible. Some of it was detected by Luminol. And that is some of the evidence that we seized from that home along with hundreds of other pieces.
GRACE: To Susan Candiotti, CNN national correspondent, let me get this straight. So you are in the home and you`re interviewing the grandmother. And when you say, what did you hear, I didn`t hear anything, when did they find out she wasn`t there?
CANDIOTTI: You know, this is interesting. It was the very next morning. We spent a long part of an evening talking with her. The next morning when I went back, because I was supposed to get together with Justin, the very next morning. He was going to take us out to show him putting up posters, this kind of thing, and interviewing him. She instead met me at the door and told me, I didn`t quite tell you everything the night before.
And that`s when she revealed to me on her own, I have to tell you, I wasn`t there. I was somewhere else, and I want you to know that I told police where I was. And she revealed to me off the record where she was.
I was able to confirm with my law enforcement sources that, in fact, she did tell them where she was that night, and it wasn`t at home, and that they talked to -- they were able to confirm it, let`s put it that way.
GRACE: Well, Susan, when you were there, was the daddy downstairs in the basement?
CANDIOTTI: He wasn`t home.
GRACE: He wasn`t home. And he knew you were coming?
CANDIOTTI: I met him the night before when I interviewed Phoebe, the grandmother, and we were to get together with him the next day. When I got there the very next morning, he wasn`t home.
GRACE: Why?
CANDIOTTI: But -- I don`t know. And I`ve been trying to hook up with him a couple of days after that in a row, and was never able to do so. He never got back to me.
GRACE: The night that you were talking to his mother and interviewing her, Phoebe, where was he?
CANDIOTTI: Well, at first he was in the house, but he was not present while we were doing the interview. He was not there. He had left the home after we spoke briefly and he was going out, he said, to put up posters around town. It was at night. And he was going out, he said, with a friend to put up those posters, missing posters.
GRACE: And did he do that?
CANDIOTTI: I can`t answer that question. He said that he did. And I can tell you that I did see some posters around town.
GRACE: Did he ever invite you down to where he lived down in the basement? Did they show you Ayla`s room? And what did you learn?
CANDIOTTI: He did not invite me down to the basement. I simply -- when I got -- when I was through with the interview, he had come back to the home and he was back downstairs. And I could see him from where I was. And said I`ll see you tomorrow morning. That`s what I can tell you.
GRACE: What was the home like, Susan?
CANDIOTTI: Well, it`s a very small home. And frankly, when I got in there, they were just moving back into the house because they were out of the house for two weeks. They did not ask the police. They didn`t force the police to get a search warrant. The grandmother told me, look, they want to search, I told them come on in, you can search all you want. She said, I want to cooperate in every way, shape or form that I can.
And so the house was in disarray from the cleaning up that they had to do after the police went in there. And as you can imagine for two weeks they turned it upside down. So things were out of place. They were still cleaning up all kinds of fingerprint dust. There was a lot of cleaning up to do.
GRACE: And back to spokesman for the Maine State Police, Stephen McCausland.
Stephen, again, regarding the blood found in the basement, was there anything to suggest that there had been a cleanup? Was there a blood smear, for instance, with a wash rag? I`m suspicious about the Luminol blood.
MCCAUSLAND: Again, Nancy, I can confirm that there was blood in the basement and the blood was Ayla`s. But beyond that there is information, obviously, that we have gathered that we need to keep to ourselves as this investigation is still very much active and ongoing. And I just can`t answer that question.
GRACE: OK. We`re going to bring in your calls when we get back tonight. The stunning blow to the police investigation. They confirm that blood found in the home of baby Ayla is in fact the 1 1/2-year-old`s child.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want to know what my reaction is?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really? You really want to know? I want to know where she is and who took her. My reaction is, I`m still trying to concept the fact that blood was found of my daughter`s. That`s my reaction. OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every day it`s hard not knowing where she is.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Evidence investigators found in the home where Ayla Reynolds was last seen -- troubling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of them is blood that we found in the basement.
REYNOLDS: My reaction is, I`m still trying to concept the fact that blood was found of my daughter`s.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And for the family to come clean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We think they know more than they`re telling us.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But DiPietro, his sister and his girlfriend, who were all home that night, are not being completely honest with investigators about what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not found one piece of evidence to back that up. The story doesn`t pass the straight face test.
REYNOLDS: I`m ready to go knocking at people`s doors myself because I want to know what happened to my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Hope that the young girl will come home soon.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Comment on the blood that was found at the house?
J. DIPIETRO: Again, I`m not here to answer any questions. You know I`m just here to show my support for the community --
REYNOLDS: For Ayla.
J. DIPIETRO: -- that`s supporting Ayla.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I`m not here to help or to answer any questions. Hey, somebody just gave me the T-shirt. That`s what it sounds like, to Stephen McCausland, spokesman, Maine State Police. If he wants to help, hint, don`t run out of the police station when they show you a crime scene photo. Answer questions. Reports are daddy no longer cooperating. Is that the true?
MCCAUSLAND: No, that is not the terminology I`ve used. Dad has talked to us when we`ve called him. He continues to do so.
GRACE: You know what, Stephen McCausland, I think you`ve missed your calling. You should work as a diplomat at the U.N. I heard what you said. You said when we call him, and we press him, he answers our questions. I hear you. All right?
To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, give me the lowdown on daddy running out of the police station when they showed him the crime scene photos, Elle?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right. Well, there is a local report that Justin DiPietro was shown pictures of the Luminol enhanced blood stains in his home and that when he was shown those pictures he immediately got up, walked out of the police station.
GRACE: To Ken Altshuler, WGAN, "Morning News with Ken and Mike." Ken, thank you for being with us. What about it? What in those photos would be so disturbing daddy would get up and take off running?
KEN ALTSHULER, RADIO HOST, WGAN MORNING NEWS WITH KEN AND MIKE: Well, Nancy, the blood was found in the basement exactly where Justin DiPietro was sleeping with his girlfriend and his girlfriend`s son. So you have to assume it reminded him of something very close to home.
GRACE: Ken, have you been in the basement?
ALTSHULER: No, they`ve not allowed anyone to go in the basement other than the police officers so --
GRACE: Why?
ALTSHULER: No, I have not seen it.
GRACE: OK. I`m going to throw this one. It`s a hardball, to Stephen McCausland. I got a bad feeling he`s not going to answer it.
Stephen, this is not anything peculiar to the investigation. Can you just tell me what all is in the basement? Is it just a bedroom?
MCCAUSLAND: It`s basically a partially finished basement. There`s some paneling, as I recall, some furniture. And again, the regular items that are usually in the basement.
GRACE: Does his bedroom take up the -- is it out in the main area of the basement or is it a separate room?
MCCAUSLAND: The basement is basically one giant room.
GRACE: So if there`s blood in the basement and his bedroom is in the basement and it`s one giant room, that means if A is B and B is C, as I recall from high school, then A is C. The blood is in his bedroom. That`s what that means.
To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, recently spoke with Ayla`s father. What did you learn, Marc Klaas?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, first of all, let me just say, Nancy, that I agree that this was not any kind of a stranger abduction. I think that everybody understands that.
My conversation with Justin was a pretty straightforward conversation. We probably spoke for about 30 minutes. And my bottom line was, you need to answer questions. You need to cooperate with the police. You need to avail yourself of the media. And you need to do whatever is necessary on a daily basis to recover your little girl and bring her home.
And it just seems to me that in light of these revelations, as we hear -- it`s like an onion being peeled, that that`s not what`s happening. But I also think, Nancy, we just found something out. We just learned that the blood, not some of the blood that was found on the floor belongs to Ayla. That is so disturbing on so many levels, particularly if it`s more than a cut.
GRACE: Why? Explain. Break it down for us, Marc. We`re not all CSI.
KLAAS: Well, listen, blood was discovered from Luminol. But that tells me is that somebody tried to clean up the blood. They found some that was visible. They found other that was not visible. I believe somebody tried to clean something up and tried to cover it up that way.
They bring in the Luminol light. They shine it and they find, what, massive amounts of blood? They find more blood than would be revealed from a cut. So that`s just terribly disturbing. You need to be talking about these things with law enforcement. These are not things that need to be revealed like the layers of an onion.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner, forensic pathologist, joining us tonight.
Dr. Oliver, thank you for being with us. What does it tell you when cops say there was more blood than would come from a cut?
HOWARD OLIVER, FMR. DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: That there were more than just a few drops. A baby that size would probably have between 1,000 ml and 2,000 ml in its system. If you got more than just a few ml, you know, three or four ml, maybe 250, which is the amount you would find in a cup, that would be significant. That would lead you to think the baby could have bled to death.
GRACE: What about if it were a nose bleed, Dr. Oliver?
OLIVER: A nose bleed would get you several ml, but not a cupful.
GRACE: So what does this say to you, Doctor?
OLIVER: It says that -- well, first of all, with the Luminol, you`re only looking at trace amounts. You could have gotten this from a splatter or from an attempt to clean up. So the attempt to clean up might have been -- might have been over a significant area.
GRACE: With me also psychologist Michelle Golland, from Dr. Michellemusings.com.
Doctor, thank you for being with us. What do you make of the dad when asked questions in public? He goes, yes, I`m not going to answer any of that. I`m just here showing support. How does that strike you? FYI, he is not a person of interest. He is not a suspect. Go ahead, Michelle.
MICHELLE GOLLAND, PSYCHOLOGIST, EXPERT ON MOMLOGIC.COM: You know, Nancy, I have to say, you may disagree with me on this. I have my suspicions also about the mother. I don`t like his attitude --
GRACE: She wasn`t there.
GOLLAND: -- is very suspicious. Well, but I have to say my concerns about her is, I`d like to ask the police chief, what was her medical condition that she ran out of a polygraph? Was that a panic attack?
GRACE: Let me ask you, just what difference does it make if she`s not a suspect, if she was nowhere near the scene, she can have rehab problems? For all I know she`s got an alcohol or drug problem. I don`t know what her problem is or if she even has a problem.
GOLLAND: Absolutely. I think she clearly has a problem.
GRACE: But what I care about is -- well, what difference does it make if she is not implicated?
GOLLAND: It makes -- Nancy, it -- well, he`s not a suspect either. I am trying --
GRACE: Yes, answer my question, please.
GOLLAND: Which question?
GRACE: The only one I asked you, which is if she was not on the scene and was living 40, 50 miles away and has an alibi for that night, why are people jumping on her rehab problem or her substance problem? It doesn`t matter. All that matters is where`s the baby.
GOLLAND: Absolutely. But we know that families who are struggling with drugs and alcohol and having and going to court and getting orders to take children away as well --
GRACE: Right. Right. Right.
GOLLAND: Also have issues.
GRACE: Issues, OK.
GOLLAND: I think we have to be very careful.
GRACE: Well, that is -- that is extremely vague and not much help. Frankly. I`m just, you know, telling you like it is no offense.
I want to go back -- I want to go back to Steve McCausland.
Stephen, is there anything else you can tell us about the scene tonight. Anything else about the search for baby Ayla? What are police doing now?
MCCAUSLAND: We`ve worked on this night and day for six solid weeks and we`re not going to stop until we find her. I also want to just make sure that your listening audience understands the largest reward ever offered in Maine state history for a missing person is still out there. Thirty thousand dollars, for information that leads to Ayla`s location. We need a call. We need a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Where is baby Ayla? Blood in daddy`s basement, basically his bedroom, is the baby girl`s. To Susan Candiotti.
Susan, so the whole time you`re talking to the grandmother, the daddy is walking around, he never sits down and adds in. Did he at any point tell you what happened that night?
CANDIOTTI: He didn`t. I tried to start to ask him questions. I only met him briefly as I was saying hello to her and we were getting ready to begin the interview. He stayed a short period of time and then left. So - - but you know, Nancy, what`s really significant, one of the things about this new information is the timing. Police have only decided now to reveal that they found that blood on the very -- the beginning of their search, their initial search, and for the first time, they`re obviously also raising the heat here publicly, never before having done this, raising questions about the stories they were told by the adults that were there that night. It`d be interesting to hear what Stephen McCausland has to say about that.
GRACE: What about it, John DePetro, WPRO?
JOHN DEPETRO, WPRO: You know, it`s amazing, Nancy. She`s exactly right. I know the other guests were still mentioning the mother but the police were very clear, it`s the three adults in the house that the police feel they have not given them all the information. This was a very interesting weekend where Justin DiPietro thought he was just going to a vigil and instead world circulated that blood had been found. Now we know it`s confirmed, it was the blood of baby Ayla.
GRACE: And to Ken Altshuler, Ken Altshuler joining us from WGAN.
Ken, when I see him talking, he won`t answer anything. He has a very unconcerned demeanor. Now I am not a shrink, but that`s just the way he looks. He`s basically saying hey, I am just here wearing the T-shirt, showing support. If he wants to support her, the baby, then answer police questions and don`t run out of the police station. Repeat, he is not a suspect. Ken?
ALTSHULER: And Nancy, he said he took a lie detector test and smoked it. The police won`t say what the results are. But nobody frankly on the state of Maine believes a single word he`s saying.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember, Army Sergeant Gregory Owens, Jr. Garland, Texas, killed Afghanistan. An Eagle Scout from a family of vets, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Achievement, National Service Defense Medal, active in Sunday school, a beacon of light. Favorite food, lasagna. Leaves behind parents Ladonna and Gregory, Sr., brothers Lamar and Jonathan, sister Shalena.
Gregory Owens, Jr. American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And good night from dear friends of the show, Brenda and Eva, beautiful.
Happy birthday, Jennifer. Here she is with her true love, Lee. They met in middle school. Still together. Happy birthday, Jennifer.
And tonight, thoughts and prayers to Georgia friend Charlie, set for surgery. Everyone, see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
