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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Serial Killer in L.A.?
Aired January 31, 2012 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Good evening. Jane Veils- Mitchell coming to you live from New York City. Strikingly similar murders in Los Angeles have young women fearful of a serial killer there. I`m going to talk live in just a moment to the mother of the latest victim. That`s next.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, is a serial killer roaming the streets of Los Angeles? Two women who look strikingly alike both vanished while out for a walk. Both run in the same social circles. Both their bodies found on the side of the road. Now the neighborhood`s reporting a mysterious white van circling the area. Who targeted these women and why?
Then, the search for a missing toddler, little Ayla, intensifies as cops come forward to point the finger at three people they say aren`t telling the whole truth. We`ll give you the very latest.
Plus escalating outrage over a group of teens who are twitching uncontrollably. Tonight, we`ll tell you what famed investigator Erin Brockovich has found as she probes whether it`s linked to toxic waste. Is this apparent twitching outbreak the tip of the iceberg?
And the wife accused of murdering her Navy doctor husband after he cheated with a beautiful blonde sobs on the witness stand. She reveals her secret torment behind the love triangle that led her to stab him to death right through the heart. You`ll see it all right here.
And real-life drama on the season finale of "The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills." Front and center, the suicide of star Taylor Armstrong`s husband. She defends the show`s decision to air damning claims that her husband abused her. I`ll talk to Russell Armstrong`s sister, who`s furious about how her dead brother was portrayed on the show.
And we`re taking your calls.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, is a serial killer targeting young women in Los Angeles? Two murders with eerie parallels have people who live in the City of Angels panicked. As they hold a vigil for these two mysteriously murdered women, people are also looking over their shoulders, particularly women, terrified as they hear reports of a white van with men inside, seen circling the area. Men who some claim are intent on abduction.
Both Michelle Lozana and Bree`Anna Guzman went for a walk from their Lincoln Heights homes. Each never returned. Their bodies were found stripped of clothing on the side of the 5 freeway. Bree`Anna was a young mother, leaving behind two precious daughters, one 5 years old. And one just 15 months old. Michelle was only 17 years old, full of potential, not even old enough to vote. Two lives cut short, murdered in cold blood. And nobody knows why.
All of this happening a short drive from downtown Los Angeles. You know the area if you`ve ever been there. It`s right near Dodgers Stadium. Now, Lincoln Heights residents -- that`s the area right around Dodgers Stadium -- they`re on red alert tonight as more and more reports of terror trickle through their community.
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JESSE CAMPOS, LINCOLN HEIGHTS RESIDENT: We seen a white van going really slow and there was a girl across the street. And me and my two friends walked up next to it to try to see who it is, and they just drive off real fast.
DOLORES RUIZ, LINCOLN HEIGHTS RESIDENT: They actually had her, but being as she was yelling and screaming that they released her, they threw her out of the van and told her that they would be back for her.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Who is driving this mystery white van, and what connection could it have to the vicious murders of Bree`Anna and Michelle? What do community members know?
Well, this sketch was done not by police but by somebody in the Lincoln Heights community. They believe this may be a sketch of the killer, and they want everybody in the neighborhood to know.
But so far police don`t really have anything to go on. The police are not the ones who did this sketch. People in the community did this sketch. Give me a call: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. I want to know what you think about this: 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to my very special, exclusive guest, Darlene Duran, the mother of murdered Bree`Anna Guzman.
First of all, Darlene, my condolences, my deepest condolences. My heart goes out to you and your family. I know this is a horrific time for you.
And we want to do whatever we can to make sure there`s justice for your daughter. We want to show your daughter`s face so that we can jog somebody`s memory out there or give somebody the courage to come forward and tell what they know.
So Darlene, what have police told you? What and how did you find out about the discovery of your daughter`s body?
DARLENE DURAN, MOTHER OF MURDERED WOMAN: I received the alarming phone call that morning that detectives had a new development that perhaps could lead to the end of my nightmare of searching for my daughter. Late in the early -- late in the afternoon, I received a phone call. The police came back to the site where the body was found, and it was an unusual confirmation that it was my -- my Bree`Anna.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And when was this -- when was the body found exactly and exactly where?
DURAN: Shockingly, it was one month directly to the date she disappeared, December 26. And they discovered a body on the on-ramp of the 2 freeway at the Riverside Drive entrance on January 26, as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How did they know to look there?
DURAN: It was a -- it`s behind the Caltrans -- Caltrans yard, and Caltrans workers made the -- found the body.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your daughter is very beautiful. We`re going to show a picture of her one more time. Unfortunately, we don`t know what happened. We`re trying to get answers. What do you think happened? Do you believe that there could be a serial killer?
And we`re going to talk about some of the eerie parallels. Both murdered women, your daughter and the other woman, both young, very similar looks, from the same Lincoln Heights neighborhood. Both were walking at different times when each of them vanished.
Your daughter, the 22-year-old, disappeared, as you mentioned, the day after Christmas. Her body turned up, as you mentioned, on an off-ramp. It`s near the 5 Freeway. It was the 2, but it was near the 5. And the 17- year-old was found in April six miles away, also near the 5. They were only six miles away from each other. Both bodies found near on ramps. Both had identifying tattoos. Both were missing clothing when they were found. They were either nude or partially nude.
So I just want to ask you, Darlene, what do you think happened to your daughter? Do you think there`s a serial killer out there?
DURAN: At this point, it`s real difficult to say. I`ve got a lot of different thoughts in my head whether or not to believe that this was an actual abduction. I am aware that there is a van in the neighbor -- neighborhood attempting to pick up other girls and, you know, destroy their family`s lives by taking them.
But there are also other thoughts in my mind, because she -- she told me, "I`ll be right back, mom. I`m going to go to the drugstore with my boyfriend." And I hadn`t heard back from her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, gosh, we`re going to ask you about the boyfriend.
Tell us about your daughter. She had -- she has two beautiful children. You are raising those children now. That`s got to be very emotional and tough for you.
DURAN: It is very difficult, because Janelle (ph) is the 5-year-old, and she and -- she -- her father is a great guy. He`s been taking care of her ever since this tragedy has taken place. He`s been with her, and we`ve agreed to -- to share the responsibilities with her.
And I have the 16-month-old, and it is going to be really difficult to explain to her when she gets of age what happened to her mother.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tell us about your daughter.
DURAN: Bree`Anna was a loving spirit. She attracted many people. A lot of -- a lot of friends confided in her and she was just -- she was just full of life. She loved people. She loved to bake. She attended school to become a patisserie chef. In our apartment complex, she would bake and sell goodies to the neighbors and...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can I ask you -- not to interrupt, but tell us about this boyfriend. What do we know?
DURAN: Well, I don`t have much information about him, other than the fact that it was a love triangle, and she was prepared to end the relationship that he was not willing to commit to.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, lave police interviewed this boyfriend? Let`s leave names out of it.
DURAN: My understanding is that he was interviewed, and I don`t know the capacity of what was discovered with their interview.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pete Demetriou, field reporter, KNX 1070, what do you know, Pete?
PETE DEMETRIOU, REPORTER, KNX: At this point, the case has been handed over to the robbery/homicide division. But in a way, they`re still in the elementary points of investigating this particular murder.
Bree`Anna Guzman was only found on the 26th, and she was missing for roughly one month. They haven`t even done a full forensic examination of the body yet, but there`s some preliminary indications coming about which tend to dissuade people from thinking that what we have is a serial killer here.
There are some factors that are definitely common to this. They`re both young women, both Latina, both found along the same freeway or nearby, even though they`re six miles apart. And both from roughly the same area of Los Angeles, Lincoln Heights.
However, beyond that, there are too many factors which are completely separate and different. This at least from what I`ve heard from detectives and robbery/homicide division. They haven`t gotten all detectives from the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) division and from robbery/homicide division. Again, RHD, which is the premiere murder investigation unit for LAPD, hasn`t gotten all the details yet because they haven`t had a full medical examination yet. When they do, more information will be able to match against them. If there are any factors which do link them, they`ll come out. If not, we`ve got two separate murder cases here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but the similarities are eerie, and the parallels are striking. And remember, in Long Island, where there`s a serial killer, originally cops said, "OH, we don`t think these murders are connected." And then they had to backtrack and say, "Well, we were wrong; they are connected."
So more on this case straight ahead. We`re also talking to a very dear friend of this murdered woman, and we`re taking your calls: 1-877-JVM- SAYS.
What does a former FBI agent think?
And unbelievable new testimony in the love triangle murder trial. The woman accused of killing her husband in a jealous rage, stabbing him through the heart, stabbing him ten times, finally takes the stand to talk about her husband`s relationship with the beautiful blonde on the right. The mistress was this woman on the left. Driven to murder.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought I was going to kill myself and I thought that he would be so upset that I wasn`t around that he wouldn`t be able to be with anybody else.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The disappearance of Bree`Anna Guzman and the discovery of her undressed body off the Glendale Freeway in Silver Lake has left this Lincoln Heights community in mourning, but also in fear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These people are scared to come forward and say anything.
We are investigating it, but without an actual police report it`s hard to go on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Neighbors worry young women in their community will continue to be targeted. A young woman was almost abducted Friday night.
RUIZ: She was yelling and screaming that they released her. They threw her out of the van, telling her that they would be back for her.
CAMPOS: We see a white van running very slow. Going down the street.
RUIZ: Please come forward and report them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I have talked to law enforcement experts, and they have told me that when women are abducted, they are usually abducted in vans for obvious reasons. They can be hidden there. And in a car, there`s more opportunity for a woman to get help from somebody, to show that she`s in distress.
Even though there are striking similarities between these two women and their murders, cops say to us, anyway, they`re skeptical about the serial killer theory, because there have been some other very strange killings in this same area lately. We were talking just the other day about the decapitation murder near the Hollywood sign.
Listen to how that body was found, and the hands and the feet, all dismembered.
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LAUREN KORNBERG, DISCOVERED SEVERED HEAD: I was on the trail with my dogs. I had a -- and my mom was with me and her dog. A few minutes later he had something in his mouth, which he immediately dropped, and it rolled down about 30 feet down the hillside into a ravine. I looked at my mom and I said that I thought it was a ball, a soccer ball maybe, and then I kind of cringed and I said, it actually looks kind of like a skull.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Steve Moore, former FBI agent, cops actually pointed to that case when we called them and said hey, there were reports that this person could be a serial killer. Said oh, you know, there`s a lot of murders. But there`s no similarity between that case and the disappearance of these two women from the same neighborhood with similar looks, both found near freeway off-ramps. I mean, how could we say that that`s totally random?
STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI AGENT: I agree that the Hollywood murder, that has nothing to do -- the Hollywood sign murder has nothing to do with these girls.
I think robbery/homicide division doesn`t want to come out and say there`s a serial killer loose. It`s like yelling "fire" in a theater. You don`t do that. There`s lots of reasons that they -- even if they suspected they might be related, that they wouldn`t say anything.
But everything I`ve seen so far just accentuates the similarities. I don`t see the differences. If they`ve got differences they`re looking at, I don`t see them. They haven`t released the information that differentiates these two.
I mean, both girls were walking right along bus routes. Both girls were the same age. They were dumped at the same place. They were kept probably about the same length of time. It`s just coincidence after coincidence after coincidence on this one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then this report that there was a woman who was almost abducted, and she put up such a ruckus and screamed and yelled and she escaped. I don`t have any independent confirmation of that. But my gosh, we know that the people in the area are terrified.
Dolores Ruiz, I know you`re a woman who lives in the area. You`re a friend of the murdered woman, Bree`Anna. My heart goes out to you, as well. What is it like in the community right now? How frightened are women in the Lincoln Heights area?
RUIZ: Right now the women in Lincoln Heights area are frightened. People are scared to just even go down the street to walk to the neighborhood store. I mean, they fear they have might be abducted.
You know, right now I have Bree`Anna`s picture near me to show that she was such a beautiful person, and that we`re not going to let this incident go unheard.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We want to go to the phone lines. Mary Jane from Illinois, your question or thought, Mary Jane?
CALLER: Hello, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: I just want to tell you that years ago, in Los Angeles, this type of crime occurred many years ago. Now, a girl would be walking down the street, and all of a sudden a hood would be placed over her face and her head. Somebody would get out of the van and approach the girl from the rear and do this.
And I don`t know what happened to these girls, if they were released later on, but they were raped. And I was thinking that perhaps whoever did that crime was placed in prison and has gotten out recently and has...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mary Jane, we`re going to give Pete Demetriou literally ten seconds. Is there credence to that?
DEMETRIOU: Not that I`ve heard of at this point, at least. No...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to leave it right there. Our viral video, next.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Baby Ayla in a moment, but first, your viral video of the day.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is not one piece of evidence at this point that leads us to believe that an abduction took place. That`s why we`re asking these three adults that were there that night, that we think that one of them has information that they haven`t told us. And -- because the story of Ayla being abducted just does not pass the straight-face test.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: After finding the blood of baby Ayla Reynolds, cops now taking the drugs off, talking and telling the world they think baby Ayla`s father is a big fat liar.
Three adults, including Ayla`s dad, sleeping in Ayla`s house the night she vanished from her bed. Cops say somebody is not telling the truth. Ayla`s blood found in the basement where her father, Justin DiPietro, was sleeping with his girlfriend and her young son.
Here with me, Jean Chasers from "In Session." You`re all over this story. Jean, three adults in the house. Nobody can hear anything. No signs of forced entrance.
JEAN CASAREZ, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": No signs of forced entry. Let`s look at that blood a little deeper, too, because police have said some was visible; some was not. They had to use Luminol. So Jane, think about it. The difference. Was there a cleanup going on? Why would some be visible and some not visible? That I think is relevant.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. Here are the estranged parents of Ayla talking after they got together.
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JUSTIN DIPIETRO, FATHER OF AYLA: Again, I`m not going to answer any questions. I`m just here to show my support for Ayla.
TRISTA REYNOLDS, MOTHER OF AYLA: You want to know what my reaction is, really? Do you really want to know? I`m ready to go knocking at people`s doors myself, because I want to know what happened to my daughter and where she is.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: The mother, who says she was far away that night, is estranged from the father, hugging him. But there`s obviously tension there. And the cops are outright coming out and saying this guy is a liar. How did they get the three adults in the house separated so they can extract their story?
CASAREZ: Well, that`s exactly what they have to do, but look how long it`s been since she went missing. This case reminds me of Haleigh Cummings.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Totally.
CASAREZ: And it`s very sad, because Haleigh Cummings has not been solved. But the key, I think, would be the grandmother whose house it was, Phoebe, because law enforcement has come out saying, "We cannot depose her." Phoebe has told us.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And she lied to CNN. She said she was there that night.
Let`s go to the phone lines. Nancy, Pennsylvania, your question or thought, Nancy.
CALLER: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: It`s great to speak with you. I think that definitely the key are the three adults that were there in that home. Somebody knows something. And I don`t understand why the police can`t haul in like the other two people and question them to see what`s going on. I hope this little girl is alive, but I think it`s doubtful.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Steve Moore, former FBI agent, why can`t they charge the dad with something? They found blood in the basement where he`s living.
MOORE: Well, you don`t want to charge him too early because you really want to get the whole -- if he`s involved, you want to get the whole thing. You want to -- you don`t want to charge him with something small or something wrong.
You made a point yesterday that was just beautiful. The -- it`s not just the presence of the blood. It`s what the blood is doing. Is it on a wall? Is it splatter?
And as far as why can you see part of it and why not? If you`ve ever moved your refrigerator and you found stuff that you spilled years ago. What this tells me is that they probably tried to clean and didn`t get it all, which is a problematic thing for them, isn`t it?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think that we`re on the verge of a breakthrough. Jean Chasers, it`s so great to see you. My good buddy. We covered so many trials together.
Next, electrifying testimony in a love triangle murder trial.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mistress -- the woman at the center of this deadly love triangle -- took to the stand, telling jurors she was very much in love, outlining an extramarital affair that started an board a hospital ship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) You were married.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You knew he`s been married for 18 years as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes sir.
JENNIFER TRAYERS, ON TRIAL FOR HUSBAND`S MURDER: When he would come home from school, he would act like I don`t exist and go up and call her on the phone or go up and instant message her. And it would be like I wasn`t even home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She waited to catch him unprepared as she armed herself with a knife, that she attacked him with planned marksmanship (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She would tell you that after the first stab or two, she doesn`t remember much after that.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course, she remembers nothing, right? I don`t know about that. Breaking news tonight, the wife of a navy doctor describes on the stand how she killed her cheating husband, viciously stabbing him ten times. She claims after the first couple of stabs, she doesn`t remember a thing.
Good evening. Jane Veils-Mitchell live in New York City.
Tonight on the opposite coast, San Diego: stunning new developments in a love triangle that ended with a brutal death. It seems like the perfect life. A popular, handsome navy doctor living by the beach in beautiful, sunny San Diego with his wife of 18 years; but behind the facade, a marriage with history of trouble. Both the husband and the wife had cheated before, but it was this latest affair with this beautiful California blonde you see there -- she also testified, you`re going to hear from her in a second. That was just too much for the wife to take.
And today that defendant wife, the one with the gray hair and the glasses, took the witness stand, testifying in her own defense, in her own murder trial. Here she is on the stand just minutes ago.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kissing Dr. Trayers before you came back to San Diego.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was a long, passionate kiss, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point, you knew he was married.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You knew he had been married for 18 years, as well?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. That`s the mistress. The wife knew about her husband`s affair because she got a special computer program that allowed her to track the e-mails of her husband, going back and forth. She knew about this beautiful blonde for months and so the wife just reached her breaking point.
One December morning she fired off this angry eight-page e-mail to this woman, her husband`s mistress. And then the wife gets in a fight with her husband and stabs him ten times and he ends up in bed, literally stabbed through the heart.
Just moments ago, the wife told the jury exactly what she did to her husband.
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TRAYERS: I was just so angry and mad and I didn`t know what was going on and what was happening and why he was acting the way he was acting. I just didn`t know what was going to happen.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to hear from you. We`re talking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to ISSUES producer, Selling Darkalstanian, on the scene in San Diego. You were in the court today. We rarely see a head-to-head of a mistress and a wife accused of murder -- not the mistress, but the wife -- take the stand at different times, almost going head to head over this man, this tough, handsome, naval officer. What was it like and how did the women in the courtroom react, Selling?
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: Jane, there was sympathy for Jen. Of course, nobody thinks she should have killed her husband, but in a way, you could tell the women were sympathizing with her because here was a man who was cheating on her repeatedly, and she kept confronting him about it and he kept saying it`s over, there`s nothing going on. But then she would go and find more e-mails on his Gmail account. She would find more Facebook messages.
And here he was telling her I love you, I want -- according to her, he was telling her I love you, I want to keep working at it. And this just looked like a woman who had enough, she couldn`t take it anymore and she went crazy and killed him. And that`s really what happened today in court.
She was very, very aware of the jury; she kept looking at them when she was talking. Her answers were very rehearsed like she knew what she was going to say before the attorney asked her some question. And she did start crying a few times when they got into the murder and the details of the murder and how she stabbed him and how she, you know, lunged at him with a butcher knife and she, you know, stuck it in his heart. At that point, she started crying. But she was very well composed. She was very well rehearsed. This is a woman who had just had enough.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. The question is, is this eight-page e- mail addressed to "Dear Little Miss Grass is Not Greener on My Side", signed "Mrs. Wonderful"; is this the smoking gun that prosecutors are using to show that she premeditated? Now, the wife broke down several times on the stand especially when talking about that morning.
The defense said she was actually trying to kill herself and that killing her husband was an act of passion in the heat of the moment, there she shouldn`t get murder. She should get much less, that would only give her about a dozen years, voluntary manslaughter.
Listen to the wife.
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TRAYERS: I thought I was going to kill myself and I thought that he would be so upset that I wasn`t around that he wouldn`t be able to do it with anybody else.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here`s the problem. She wrote this eight-page e-mail to the mistress the morning of the murder. And she, again, addresses it to "Dear Little Miss Grass is Not Greener on My Side"; "Sincerely, Mrs. Wonderful". "You`re making wedding plans and buying a cottage and having kids. You try and get him to stop having sex with me? Very clever. But what discuss is he supposed to give his wife for not wanting sex? Did you know he likes to look teenage girls on porn websites? He doesn`t think I know what happens on deployment."
Jim Moret, chief correspondent "Inside Edition", you`re also there in the courtroom. The most shocking thing is that she refers in this e-mail to her husband in the past tense and says in no uncertain terms, you`re not going to get my husband.
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Right. And the bigger problem Jane is the e-mail was sent the morning of the killing but it was written over weeks. And as you indicated, part of what she says to the mistress, the wife says, "I hope that you hold on to these memories, because that`s all you`re going to have. I hope you remember these dates, those photos, the books, the CDs, because you`re not going to get him anymore. I`m the last person to have seen him," -- in the past tense. And the prosecution says that indicates premeditation.
The other problem from the prosecution`s stand point -- rather the problem from the defense stand point is she goes in by her own admission to the kitchen, grabs a butcher knife, then walks into the room.
Now, Jane, for premeditation: you walk into the kitchen, get a knife, you walk through the living room, down the hall, up the stairs, into the bedroom. The prosecution aptly points out that at any point she could have stopped. She could have sat down. She could have left the house, but she didn`t. And all of those things indicate premeditation.
And as Selling indicated a couple of minutes ago, we heard the wife say that she walks into the bedroom with this knife and holds it to herself saying I want to kill myself and then, according to the wife`s testimony, the husband mocks her and says that knife is not sharp enough, I`ve got a sharper one in the night stand, opens the night stand. The wife grabs that knife and that`s the knife that she uses to kill him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is one of the very rare cases where we see a face-off in court. Two women fighting over the very same man; each side of the story is completely, totally different. Check this out.
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TRAYERS: He`s acting like nothing is wrong between our marriage. He keeps telling me over and over he`s never going to leave. He`s never going to abandon me.
DANIELLE ROBINS, MISTRESS OF MURDER VICTIM: He definitely said that there are issues and that he had been unhappy for a long time.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Kaiser, psychotherapist, this wife is having what I would call a huge pity party trying to portray herself as a victim. Quite often when people commit crimes, in their demented mines, they feel like they are the victims. Yet, I don`t buy it. I feel sorry for women who are cheated on, but not for this particular woman.
STACEY KAISER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I agree with you. That`s, you know, very classic for somebody who has done something really extreme and they`re trying to get some sympathy for it. This doesn`t surprise me at all, whether or not she had a difficult marriage, whether or not she was challenged and things were hard for her, at the end of the day she still killed him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: all right. Let`s go to the phone lines. Marlene, Washington, your question or thought, Marlene?
MARLENE, WASHINGTON (via telephone): Well, my thought is that men should be taking more seriously their marriage vows. After all, it is until death do you part, and there`s only so much infidelity that a woman can put up with before, you know, she loses it and he was her husband.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But get this, Marlene, the husband wasn`t the only one who cheated in this marriage. This wife, this prim and proper wife with the gray hair in the bun, she had had an affair and it wasn`t a secret either. The husband`s mistress knew all about it.
Listen to this.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told you that one of the problems in his life was his wife was having an affair, right?
ROBINS: That`s correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how many different times you think he told you about that?
ROBINS: One in an e-mail he brought it up. Not sure, if it came up in every conversation. It wasn`t something we talked about regularly.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jeff Brown, criminal defense attorney, I don`t think that there`s any way that this -- I personally think that this is a very weak case for the defense. I`m wondering why they put this wife on the stand to be cross-examined by the prosecution about how she stabbed her husband a dozen times -- ten times at least.
JEFF BROWN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. You know, this is a case where the jury has to decide whether it`s premeditation or the heat of passion. And I think the defense in this case really had no other options to play. I`m sure they tried to work it out or get a plea deal to a second degree murder. It just didn`t happen and they have to go to trial.
You know, a heat of passion crime is when you find your wife and another man in bed together and it`s something that even a reasonable person would be so upset about that they would just do something like kill them. Here we don`t have heat of passion. She knew about the affair. What we have is just an argument between two people in which he dies. This isn`t really heat of passion. I think it`s a pretty good case for the prosecution on premeditated murder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this, I`m looking at this gray haired woman with the glasses, and I know that in the crime scene photos, because she was found bloody, on the bed with her husband, she looks far more glamorous, let`s put it that way. I think she purposely let her hair go gray. I think she`s wearing those little glasses, she`s doing the bun, she`s pulling the old Casey Anthony.
Remember Casey Anthony, how prim and proper she looked during the trial and then as soon as she was acquitted of murder, she just let her hair down and came into court like she was going to a rock concert. Is the same thing going on here?
Next --
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TRAYERS: I thought I was going to hurt -- kill myself, and I thought he would be so upset that I wasn`t around that he that wouldn`t be able to be with anyone else.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: You see here, I think she`s a lot more attractive than she`s making herself look for the purposes of this trial.
And I want to go back to Selling Darkalstanian, our ISSUES producer there at the scene who was in court. You saw the crime scene photos. Apparently after this woman stabbed her husband ten times, killing him -- she doesn`t deny that, and did sort of superficial stab wounds to herself. She stays in bed or near the bed with her husband for two days before cops burst in when he doesn`t show up for work.
What were those crime scene photos that showed her in the bedroom, the bloody bedroom, what were they like?
DARKALSTANIAN: Well, we saw the crime scene photos and she looked drastically different. I mean you have to understand you`re seeing a woman in court with salt and pepper gray hair sitting on the stand. But in the bedroom photos, she doesn`t even look like the same person. She has dark, black hair. She looks a lot younger. She looks like a completely different person. Clearly she`s let her hair grow out. But she looked very different.
And on cross-examination, they asked her why did you wait two days to call 911? You got up, you took Ambien, you went back to bed after she killed him. You got up, you took Ambien, you went back to bed and then you went to the bathroom and then you came back to bed. You were able to do all of that but you weren`t able to call 911? And so that was a really strong point for the prosecution.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I`ve got to say, look at this man. He`s all-American, a naval doctor. He meets his mistress on what I would like to call -- what they called it the USS Mercy. That`s an interesting name for it. I would call it the "Love Boat" because the two of them were rocking the boat.
She claims that they met here and that she was trying to keep it pristine and didn`t want to have sex with him until he left his wife. I don`t know what happened but it`s definitely a love triangle.
Let`s go back to the phone lines. Linda, North Carolina, your question or thought?
LINDA, NORTH CAROLINA (via telephone): Yes, one, I do not believe in murder. But two, I`m tired of women being thrown under the bus for murder, because unless you have been a person that`s given your life in marriage and vows, whether she ran around on him or not, this was not premeditated. And women need to wake up and realize that you`re hurt, you`re mentally unstable and your mind can just snap.
Mine didn`t because I`m a Christian and I went and got help. But I do not want women throwing this woman under the bus or any other woman that`s sitting in jail and going to rot because of men, they`re out having affairs and the women -- the mistresses that are having these affairs, go find somebody else. Don`t be breaking up marriages.
I was left with a 3-year-old child and had not been able to work. So it just needs to stop. You know --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Linda, I really appreciate you sharing your story, because I think that a lot of women have experienced this. In fact, any woman who has never been cheated on, raise their hand.
Jim Moret, chief correspondent with "Inside Edition", how many women approximately there on the jury and are the women kind of sympathizing with this defendant?
MORET: I think the women on the jury may be feeling a bit of what that caller felt. Because look, the defense isn`t saying no harm, no foul, we`re going home. The defense admits this woman was there, she killed her husband. The question was, was it premeditated?
As a woman, as a person, if they`re married and you know your spouse is cheating and this woman talks about losing 25 pounds, being emotionally distraught. She`s being told by her husband everything is fine. Then she`s seen the e-mails that say "I want to be with you, I hate my wife, I don`t want to be with her." That kind of emotional turmoil she says drove her to think.
Then I think you may find some sympathy on that jury. People say look give her 12 years, not 25 to life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Stacey Kaiser, 10 seconds, do you buy it?
KAISER: No, I don`t buy it. That`s my short answer. I don`t like cheaters, but killing is worse.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jeff Brown, do you buy it?
BROWN: The guy, he got stabbed ten -- stabbed ten times; once in the heart with a butcher knife. No way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I don`t buy it.
Don`t go anywhere. Boy, do we need a laugh break and we`ve got one coming up in one minute. Got to check it out.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: "Real Housewives" dramarama in a minute but first, you deserve a laugh break. So do I.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are new shocking abuse revelations from "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" star, Taylor Armstrong. Were there warning signs from the start about her late husband`s alleged abuse?
TAYLOR ARMSTRONG, REALITY STAR: A lot of the issues in my marriage are definitely addressed this year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The show characterized him as someone that abused his spouse.
GLADYS ARMSTRONG: I never knew him to be unkind to a lady. He was always the nicest person in the world.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Major drama heating up Beverly Hills explosive new abuse allegations from "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" star Taylor Armstrong against her husband, who is not here to speak for himself because he committed suicide. Listen to this from Bravo.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taylor, if you are an abusive relationship, why in the world would you ever agree to do a reality TV show?
T. ARMSTRONG: At some stage I might have believed that the cameras would provide me some protection because if there are cameras following me and we`re public figures, then it would either have the abuse stop because he wouldn`t want that aired on television, or it would force us into a divorce. It would really make a change because we were stuck in just a plateau of an unhealthy relationship.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Three weeks before the season was slated to start, Russell hung himself shocking friends and family. His mom came on this show to warn Bravo they had better not air one frame of Russell.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t see one frame. I better not hear one frame, and that goes for all the family. We are circling the wagons.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out tonight to my exclusive guest Russell Armstrong`s sister, Laurie Armstrong Kelso. Laurie, thank you for joining us, and our hearts do go out to you. You suffered the loss of your brother.
LAURIE ARMSTRONG KELSO, SISTER OF RUSSELL ARMSTRONG: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Obviously, they did air footage of your brother and, Taylor goes so far as to say, well, I wanted to be on a reality show so cameras would protect me. I mean, what is your reaction and your family`s reaction to that?
KELSO: Well, we`re outraged, of course, as anyone would expect. You know, it`s just been all very unfortunate, and sad. It`s devastating, of course.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to play another disturbing claim from last night`s show. She`s actually saying that, well, the show might have saved Taylor`s life. Listen to this one from Bravo, and then we`ll get your reaction.
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T. ARMSTRONG: Most people I have talked to have -- experts -- certainly not my opinion -- typically these types of things end in murder- suicide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the show saved your life, yes.
T. ARMSTRONG: Definitely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think so too.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Laurie, I mean, obviously your brother is not here to defend himself. What --
KELSO: That`s correct.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is your family thinking of doing about this?
KELSO: We have our ducks in a row, you know, for just -- apparently there`s nothing we can do when someone dies that you can write. Apparently whatever you want to about them, and it not be true. You know, people will see it as true, but we do have plans to go forward with some counsel and, you know, to find out what our rights are as a family because this is most unfair.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. I want to bring in Alexis Tereszcuk, RadarOnline. Do they have any legal recourse whatsoever?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADARONLINE.COM: It doesn`t seem like they do. Bravo has been very careful this season to really just show the scenes where Taylor and Russell had counseling together. They had a very respected doctor, Dr. Sophy, who talked with them, and they really tried to show a lot of sides of their relationship, but they didn`t show the actual abuse, no.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`re going to have more on the other side. Wow.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: We reached out to Bravo. Did not hear back. They`re invited on our show any time to tell their side. But we are talking to Laurie Armstrong-Kelso, the sister of Russell Armstrong, who was married to Taylor Armstrong, one of the "Real Housewives" and who committed suicide. What would you like to say, Laurie?
KELSO: You know, this is all a very unfortunate situation, and at the time we could have all used each other`s support, including Taylor, you know. And we would have welcomed hers. You know, it`s the poorest taste that anyone could have exhibited the way that it`s been handled, and that`s what I am most sad about and our family is most hurt about.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alexis, there`s going to be another episode. What can we expect, briefly?
TERESZCUK: I think there`s going to be a lot more of Taylor talking about how terrible her life was with Russell. She has provided evidence. She`s provided pictures. She`s spoken about the fact that the abuse started before she even got married and we`re going to hear all about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he is not here to speak for himself.
Thank you.
"NANCY GRACE" next.
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