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Nancy Grace
Josh Powell Kills Self, 2 Boys
Aired February 06, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Utah. The mystery surrounding the disappearance of a gorgeous young stockbroker, mother of two, 28-year-old Susan Cox Powell, last seen when Daddy suddenly announces at midnight on a Sunday night he`s taking the boys, ages 4 and 2, camping in the snow. They get back home, he says Mommy`s gone.
Bombshell tonight. In the late hours last night, more tragedy for the family of missing mother of two Susan Cox Powell, the home of husband Josh Powell exploding in a towering burst of flame. Inside, Josh Powell, and in a bitter twist, Susan Cox Powell`s beloved two little boys.
After the boys begin to realize, as eyewitnesses to what happened the night Mommy goes missing, saying, Mommy`s in the trunk, Mommy`s in the mines looking for crystals, Mommy then disappears, Josh Powell inflicting the greatest pain ever on Susan and her family in what is now determined to be a suicide-double homicide of the children, ages just 5 and 7.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news, a shocking twist in the missing mom case, Susan Powell.
JOSH POWELL, HUSBAND OF MISSING SUSAN POWELL: I would never hurt her. I would never hurt my boys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fighting for custody of his two children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He bottles his rage. He explodes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, Police say that Powell blew up his house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joshua Powell rigged the home to explode as soon as he got his sons inside the house for a supervised visit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Josh Powell grabbed the children, shut the door of the home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a big explosion. It shook the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This wall of flames.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Josh Powell`s attorney says he received an e-mail from Josh. It was three words. "I`m sorry. Good-bye."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) protect my sons.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m feeling so much anger towards Josh and towards his father because his father is who raised him to be the man that he was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susan was very, very sexual with me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even Powell even wrote loves songs about her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (SINGING): I can love you in a secret way...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was deeply wrong. This was evil. You do not kill little kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The two little boys recently had started to speak about the night their mother vanished, saying they recalled going out camping late.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. In the late hours last night, more tragedy for the family of missing mom of two Susan Cox Powell, the home of her husband, Josh Powell, exploding in a towering burst of flames. Inside, Powell, and in a bitter twist, Susan`s beloved two little boys.
We are taking your calls. Straight out to a special guest joining us tonight from Graham, Washington, Thelma Gutierrez. Ma`am, thank you so much for being with us. When did you learn of the blast killing the two little boys?
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, I can tell you that yesterday afternoon, the neighbors who were in this very quiet area at the end of the cul-de-sac say that they heard this terrible explosion. They ran outside, and they saw these towering flames engulfing the home right at the end of the street.
We`re going to pan right over here, Nancy, and I want to show you what`s going on right now. About an hour ago, fire investigators came to the scene, at daybreak. They were waiting for the sun to come up. They are in there right now, combing through the rubble. They`re taking photographs. They want to know exactly how this fire started. But they say, make no mistake, this was not accidental, this was started, they say, by Josh Powell.
GRACE: Well, Thelma, I don`t have to really be there standing amidst the rubble to tell you how the fire started. The social worker smelled gasoline. That`s how the fire started. And it`s very easy to see to the naked eye, as a matter of fact, to any seasoned arson detective, that accelerant, most likely gasoline, was poured all over the home in multiple spots.
Let`s take it from the beginning. Thelma Gutierrez joining us, CNN correspondent there at the scene in Graham, Washington, the scene of a towering inferno that claims the lives of Susan Cox`s two little children.
You all recall, all of you legal eagles, when Susan goes missing in the middle of the night, and her husband, Josh Powell, claiming that he decides on a spur-of-the-moment camping trip in freezing temperatures, about 14 degrees that Sunday night, and takes the two boys camping, saying when he gets home, Susan is just gone, leaving her purse and cell phone behind.
We now learn the story unfolding, the little boys saying, Mommy was in the mines looking for crystals that night, beginning to verbalize what they observed the night their mommy goes missing.
To Thelma Gutierrez, CNN correspondent. Thelma, what led up to the explosion? I understand that Josh Powell had a supervised visit in his home that day with a social worker, yes?
GUTIERREZ: Yes. And Nancy, there was nothing out of the ordinary about this. He had had planned supervised visits with his children before. There was no red flag on this particular case.
The social worker brought these children to the home yesterday afternoon. She had gotten to the front door. The kids went inside. At that point, she says, she smelled gas. She turned around, started pounding on the door. He had locked it. She immediately runs out to call her supervisor. And then two minutes later, Nancy, this home explodes in flames.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. No red flag? No red flag! I understand what Thelma Gutierrez is telling us and what the social workers are telling us, but there has been a red flag waving in front of our eyes, under our noses from day one!
With me, special guest, attorney for the family of Susan Cox, Anne Bremner. Also with us, Jim Elliot, city attorney out of Warner Robins, Christopher Amolsch, defense attorney out of Washington, D.C.
Anne Bremner, there`s been a red flag from day one. Isn`t it true, Anne Bremner -- and all of us, all three of the lawyers tonight, all four of us, know that when domestic abuse has even been alleged or suspected, supervised visits are supposed to take place at a neutral setting, such as a McDonald`s or a Burger King. Why were supervised visits being held at Josh Powell`s home, Anne Bremner?
ANNE BREMNER, ATTORNEY FOR SUSAN COX POWELL`S PARENTS: Nancy, we all want to know that. And I didn`t handle the family law case. I do represent the parents in the disappearance case, civil matters. Unbelievable!
And this is a case where the family had declarations in the family law court saying that they believed Susan was killed by Josh Powell, that Josh Powell has, you know, a whole, you know, history with her. And the fact of the matter is, why you can`t -- you can have cases where you have an armed guard. You can have two-way glass. You can use McDonald`s. But to use his own home, where he had those kids that loved him, ran to him and he did the unthinkable is so horrific.
GRACE: Weigh in, Jim Elliot.
BREMNER: It`s just beyond the pale.
JIM ELLIOT, WARNER ROBINS, GA, CITY ATTORNEY: It`s even more outrageous to me that up until last fall, he had sole complete custody of these children. They were living in his home with all these suspicions.
GRACE: You know, and it took -- he`s right -- he`s right, Christopher Amolsch. Jim Elliot is right. And it took his father being arrested for child porn, all right, for anything to really change and allegations that Josh Powell, the father of the children, had inappropriate images on his computer, as well.
But I don`t understand why he would have had supervised visits at his home when he`s the number one suspect in the murder of Susan Cox Powell. Explain that to me, Christopher.
CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, again, I have no explanation, either. That`s, like, about the last thing you would expect to have happen in something like this. I mean, you would think they`d keep an extra close eye on him.
GRACE: I want to go now to special guest joining me. It`s Denise Cox. This is Susan`s sister. Her nephews died in the fire set by their father, Josh Powell. And it was just this Saturday night that she tucked the little boys into bed.
You know, Denise Cox, number one, myself and our staff have been praying for you and your family and Susan and these boys since we heard this horrible news last night. I`ve got two children, and I can`t imagine what happened to the two little boys. And I know you are suffering.
Also, so many things unfolding, so many facts, unfolding about Susan`s disappearance. What can you tell us, Denise?
DENISE COX, SUSAN POWELL`S SISTER: Actually, the boys, at first, when my parents received custody of them, they didn`t talk that much. But over the last two (ph) months, they started opening up and talking to my parents about what happened that night. And my parents would relay it back to me.
When I was with the boys, spending time with them, they would ask me questions about their mom, which they were not allowed to do around their father or their -- or his father. They weren`t allowed to talk -- even mention my sister`s name when they were living with their dad. And they were really excited to hear the stories I would tell them about her.
GRACE: You know, Denise, what kind of stories would they want to hear about their mother?
COX: Oh, things she liked to do. I would tell them about -- you know, we spent Christmas with them this last year. And we -- I would tell them on how my sister and I would -- Susan and I would sneak into my parents` bedroom and unwrap our presents and wrap them back up so we would know what we were getting, so we knew how to be excited for it the next -- you know, on Christmas Day and -- because the boys were to ask me what they were getting for Christmas.
And I -- you know, being the devious aunt I am, I told them how their mom and I found out. And maybe not the best thing to tell them, but they really enjoyed hearing how excited their mom was about Christmas and how much she loved the holidays.
GRACE: Denise, what were they beginning to say about the night your sister went missing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From what I gather from my -- my parents talking to me is they said that Mom went to go look for crystals and she -- she went into a mine to look for crystals and she never came out. And I have heard them -- they -- they`ve been -- they pointed to a picture of a woman and pointed to her chest and said, "Mommy owie."
GRACE: What, if anything else, did they say about the night Susan went missing, that camping trip, that so-called camping trip. Was Mommy on the camping trip? Did Mommy go on the camping trip that Sunday night at midnight at 14 degrees outside?
COX: From the story that`s out there, it was that she was in the trunk of their van. And Daddy took Mommy out to go look for crystals. And Daddy came back, but Mommy did not.
GRACE: We are taking your calls tonight. In a tragic twist. During a supervised visit, Josh Powell bars the door so social workers could not come into the home. And then within five minutes -- some reports as little as three minutes -- the home burst into a towering inferno of flames, Josh Powell not only committing suicide but double homicide on his two little boys.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a big explosion. It shook the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The two sons of Joshua Powell were being dropped off for a supervised visit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We understand is he just grabbed the kids, locked her out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All three bodies were found together in the middle of the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t imagine anyone killing their children. I just -- that`s beyond anything I could imagine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three words, "I`m sorry. Good-bye."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is something we believe that was done intentionally and done with malice and done with a specific goal in mind to get the results that occurred.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just really sad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In a saga that has played out over months and months following the disappearance of a 28-year-old stockbroker, Susan Cox Powell, in very odd circumstances, a final chapter. The story ends late last night with what you are seeing on your screen now. The home of Josh Powell goes up in flames. Inside, his two little boys.
Straight out to Jim Kirkwood, host, KTKK. Jim, to your understanding, what`s the timeline? What happened?
JIM KIRKWOOD, KTKK (via telephone): Apparently, state of Washington time around 12:30, the social worker shows up with the boys. They run in the house. And she`s behind them. He lets the boys in and then closes and locks the door.
And as you mentioned, Nancy, she smelled gas -- gasoline. And from the neighbors` reports, there was so much accelerant in this house that there were three earthquake-like explosions and it was raining insulation. This is a horrific crime.
GRACE: Joining me now, Kevin Barry, bomb and explosive expert. Kevin, thank you for being with us. How, after seeing the footage of the scene and understanding what the social worker -- how she described what happened -- the boys run into the home, Josh Powell immediately slams the doors and bars it. She tries in, can`t get in, takes out her cell, calls her boss, smells gas, starts backing up and the whole thing goes up.
Kevin Barry, how did Josh Powell have that house rigged to blow up like this?
KEVIN BARRY, BOMB AND EXPLOSIVES EXPERT (via telephone): It sound like he had poured gasoline throughout the home, based upon the witness reports of multiple explosions. And there were pockets of gasoline vapors. And as the original fire started, it spread, and then other pockets of gasoline mixed with air at the right fuel-air mixture exploded in the house, causing the heaving of the walls and the ceilings and causing a very incipient blaze. It turned that house into Dante`s inferno within probably 90 seconds.
GRACE: Dr. Bill Lloyd, board-certified surgeon and pathologist. Dr. Lloyd, please tell me that the boys did not suffer.
DR. BILL LLOYD, SURGEON AND PATHOLOGIST: This is what we know, Nancy. From a gasoline fire, oxygen would be consumed immediately. So it`s highly likely that these boys passed out from lack of oxygen. But knowing the circumstances, Nancy, we know these two boys died in terror.
GRACE: I don`t know what you mean by that. Died what?
LLOYD: Being dragged inside the house, having their father capture them, imprison them in a room and then ignite this fireball, knowing all along what was going to happen because an 8-year-old boy knows the smell of gasoline.
GRACE: So you`re saying the boys died in terror?
LLOYD: I`m sure it was horrific for them. I`m sure, for a brief second, they realized this was the end.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was an act of evil. They`re calling this a murder-suicide. They`re saying Joshua Powell set this up, rigged the house to explode and burn, and that that`s exactly what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The kids got out of the car, ran to the door. Josh let them in, slammed the door shut. The case worker then says she heard explosions from inside the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shook the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back there inside, through the trees and the darkness, some flashing lights. That is the home that went up in flames.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the three bodies were in the same room together.
JOSH POWELL: I`ve don`t know where she`s at.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bodies of Joshua Powell and his two sons.
JOSH POWELL: I don`t even know where to start looking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are getting e-mails from him. They just lead to us believe that it was intentional.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Powell apparently sent a three-word e-mail to his attorney and family shortly before the explosion, reading, "I`m sorry. Good-bye."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back out to the scene. Standing by, CNN correspondent Thelma Gutierrez. Thelma, what`s the scene now?
GUTIERREZ: Well, I can tell you, Nancy, that there are several arson investigators here. They`re going through the rubble. They want to know what exactly started this.
You had mentioned that it was gas. That`s exactly what the social worker says, as well. When she showed up at this house, she smelled gas, went to call that supervisor, and then this place went up in flames.
But this is just part of the typical arson investigation, Nancy. They`ve got to go through this area. They`ve got to take their measurements, take the photographs and document this for their case.
GRACE: Joining us now, Clark Goldband. Clark, I want to take it from the very beginning when the whole thing went down and Susan Cox Powell goes missing. With us, and taking your calls, not only our all-star panelists, but a special guest, Denise Cox. This is Susan`s sister joining us.
Clark, take it from the top.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: So the story goes, Nancy, Josh Powell was home. Susan wasn`t feeling well, decided to stay home, went to bed early. She was feeling under the weather. And that`s when Josh Powell said he packed up a 2-year-old and a 4-year-old in sub-freezing temperatures to take them camping hours away.
GRACE: You are seeing a shot of the inferno, the inferno that claimed the lives of not only Josh Powell but his two children.
OK, from that point on -- from the point that she goes missing, what do we know, Clark?
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, we know that Josh Powell was not home that night. In fact, he got a call from someone back in his home town saying, Susan is missing. And that person said Josh didn`t sound surprised in the slightest. And even though he said he was in the area, the friend claims he took quite some time to get back home.
GRACE: But it only got more bizarre from there. He moves away from the home, as if he knows she`s never going to return, and bunks up with his family. But then his father gets in trouble for child pornography allegedly on his computer.
GOLDBAND: That`s right, Nancy. And not just child pornography, 14 counts of child pornography and voyeurism. Authorities said that the elder Powell spied on ladies with a telephoto lens, and described it as very creepy.
GRACE: Including...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Including spying on Susan!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news, a shocking twist in the missing mom case, Susan Powell.
JOSHUA POWELL, HUSBAND OF MISSING MOM SUSAN POWELL: I would never hurt her. I would never hurt my boys.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Fighting for custody of his two children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He bottles his rage. He explodes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say that Powell blew up his house.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joshua Powell rigged the home to explode. As soon as he got his sons inside the house for a supervised visit.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Josh Powell grabbed the children, shut the door of the home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The big explosion. It shook the house.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This wall of flame.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Josh Powell`s attorney says he received an e- mail from Josh. It was three words. "I`m sorry. Goodbye."
POWELL: Will protect my sons.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am feeling so much anger towards Josh and towards his father. Because his father is who raised him to be the man that he was.
STEVEN POWELL, GRANDFATHER TO POWELL CHILDREN: She was very, very sexual with me.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Stephen Powell even wrote love songs about her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was deeply wrong. This was evil. You do not kill little kids.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Two little boys recently had started to speak about the night their mother vanished, saying they recalled going out camping late at night with their dad and their mother riding in the car`s trunk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is his admission of guilt. And he just couldn`t hand le anymore.
POWELL: I would never hurt her. I would never hurt my boys. I would never hurt anyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing Powell on ABC`s "GMA", "Good Morning America." We are taking your calls in a devastating twist, the man that claimed he would never hurt his children, never hurt his wife, Susan Cox Powell, is now dead. Perishing in the inferno, the blaze you are seeing there on the screen right now. And he took with him his two little boys, the boys he swore he would never hurt.
Does this effectively close the investigation into the disappearance of the mom, Susan Cox Powell?
With me her sister Denise. And joining me now, Detective Ed Troyer, joining us from Pierce County, Washington Sheriff`s Office.
Detective, thank you for being with us. What is your take on last night`s events?
SGT. ED TROYER, PIO, PIERCE CO., WASHINGTON SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well, last night`s events were devastating for all of us. You know a lot of our officers are really close to those kids because we, you know, arrested the dad. You know, we all know what kind of a weirdo he is and what`s going on with this. And we`re -- we`ve been involved with the kids and family for a while.
So we have some officers that are very, very upset that this has happened and we`re continuing today, as we speak, we have the fire marshal and arson detectives going through the burned-out house to look for evidence. And the autopsies are currently under way with another team of detectives.
We are doing search warrants. We`re continuing to move full speed ahead with everything we can because we really want to try and get answers and stick up for those two little boys and Susan. Because you know, we`re the ones that speak for the victims. And those victims, I think, there are some answers that are still due here.
GRACE: Detective Troyer, you`re right. From what her sister is telling us, the little boys were verbalizing what happened the night their mom went missing. They said, "Mommy was in the trunk." "Mommy disappeared, ""Mommy is looking for crystals in the mines." They point at a woman that would look like Susan Cox and say, "Mommy, ouch, owie."
They`re the only eyewitnesses, Detective. Why wasn`t Josh Powell already under arrest for murder? The circumstances are so damning.
TROYER: Well, a lot of that you`ve got to understand that this is West Valley`s case. We`ve been assisting, we have tight lines with them, we`re doing everything that they need to help. But the case didn`t happen here. Our case now is the double homicide and the --
GRACE: Right.
TROYER: -- that grandfather, the grandfather was put him in jail for the voyeurism and the child pornography. And we`ve been on this family and these people as much as we possibly can trying to --
GRACE: You know what, Detective Troyer, you`re absolutely right. You are absolutely right. That was in that jurisdiction. And it`s so easy for everybody to sit back the day after and Monday-morning quarterback, and go, you should have done this. You should have done that.
For all I know, cops and prosecutors thought, you know what, now the boys are starting to verbalize that means maybe we can get an eyewitness on the stand. Let`s just see if we can find a body. Because if you take a case to trial and you lose, then you find the body, it`s too late. Double jeopardy precludes a second prosecution if there is an acquittal.
And on the heels of the tot mom case, I imagine the prosecution wanted all the evidence they could get before they go to trial. But sometimes that is impossible.
Out to high-profile lawyer out of the Seattle jurisdiction, Anne Bremner, the attorney for the family of Susan Cox.
Anne, with the boys finally verbalizing that their mom was in the trunk of the car the night that she goes missing. That mommy disappears. That mommy is in the mines looking for crystals. Wouldn`t that qualify as an eyewitness? Why wasn`t Josh Powell already behind bars for murder?
ANNE BREMNER, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF SUSAN COX POWELL: Nancy, you are absolutely right. And the police knew from the beginning that there was a statement, "mommy is in the mine." That`s been around a long time. But now the police are saying, and I know Ed can confirm this, and does an excellent job as always. That they said that they were going to look at an arrest the end of the year last year or looking at an arrest this coming summer. But we worked with the West Valley police. You know they -- this is a strong circumstantial case. And it is "what if, " you know, , and 20/20, hindsight, armchair quarterback, but what if he had been arrested for murder?
GRACE: You know, you`re right. And we know -- to Bremner, Jim Elliot, Christopher Amolsch, we`ve all done it. Nobody wants to do it. All right. I don`t enjoy putting a witness -- a child witness on the stand. I don`t enjoy that.
That`s not why I went to law school, Jim Elliot, to make a child relive something traumatic. But I`ve done it. I`ve done it in child rape cases, child molestation cases, murder cases, homicide cases, arson cases, sometimes to seek justice you have to put a child on the stand.
Jim Elliot, it can be done effectively, can it not?
JIM ELLIOT, CITY ATTORNEY, TOWN OF WARNER ROBINS: Absolutely it can be done. There are a lot of protections in place for a child to make them more comfortable in a court setting for -- to give testimony about a matter that they`re not comfortable with.
GRACE: You know, Jim Elliot, you`re the city attorney in a big jurisdiction, highly populated/ When something happens like this, don`t you know the police, the sheriffs, the prosecutors are just kicking themselves. Just distraught. Could we have moved faster? Could we have made the arrest? Why didn`t we do this? Why didn`t we do that? It can drive you crazy.
ELLIOT: Absolutely. I can assure you there are investigators and administrators in that police that are absolutely disgusted on what`s happened. You can`t anticipate what evil can do, though.
GRACE: You know, he`s right, Christopher. No matter how fast they were going, no matter how hard they were trying, they could never anticipate Powell would do this to his own children?
CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, you can`t anticipate this. But why -- I don`t understand why they didn`t have the children speak to a judge in chambers or to submit as an affidavit from an officer to get him locked up to begin with. And they wouldn`t need to put them on the stand to do that. It`s kind of shocking to me that he wasn`t in jail already.
GRACE: To Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute.
Sheryl, weigh in.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. OF COLD CASE INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCH INSTITUTE, POLYGRAPH ANALYSIS EXPERT: Nancy, this is horrifying. And the bottom line is, there`s nobody to punish. Game over. His dad, he`s got information on where Susan is. But the bottom line is it`s too late. And yes, everybody is brokenhearted. But we need to go back and we need to look at these visitations.
GRACE: You know what, you`re right. It`s the only thing that can be done now, Sheryl. You are right. And speaking of that father, the father- in-law, Susan Cox Powell`s father-in-law.
It gets creepier and creepier, Clark Goldband. Did you ever -- let`s put up these lyrics of him singing songs about Susan Cox Powell. "You were waiting when I first awakened." Blah, blah, blah. On and on and on. Let`s hear it.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Yes, Nancy, there`s also one ABC News is reporting that`s about Susan that goes, "I have loved you in a special way, a secret way," and he`s written multiple, multiple songs under this pseudonym. You see some of these lyrics up there, "For you were my first love. You were my first love. Other love."
GRACE: "I can love you in a secret way?" "I can love you`ve each and every day?" This is his daughter-in-law. Let`s hear it.
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, he also says that --
(MUSIC)
GRACE: OK, you know, what? I can`t take it. Please cut it off. The lyrics go on, and on, and on. This is Josh Powell`s father singing love songs to his wife, Susan Cox. Her children now dead in an inferno started by this guy`s son.
With me, Denise Cox. Susan`s sister. Did Susan have any idea her father-in-law was such a nut?
DENISE COX, SISTER OF MISSING MOM, SUSAN COX POWELL: Yes. Yes, she did. She would -- when they would come to visit from Utah, which is the main reason they moved out to Utah just to get away from him. She -- when they came to visit he would stay with his dad. She would stay with my parents. And I asked --
GRACE: Because of the father-in-law?
COX: Yes. I asked her, it was kind of odd why are you guys staying in different homes. And she said that her father-in-law gives her the creeps. And she told me about him catching -- peeking on her when they were staying with him. And telling her he wanted to share her with her husband.
GRACE: To Dr. Carol Lieberman, forensic psychologist joining us out of L.A.
Dr. Carol, we need a shrink, stat. Weigh in.
DR. CAROL LIEBERMAN, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you know, all of these problems started when he was being raised. When Josh was being raised by his father who obviously has these twisted sexual perversions. And the reason why it happened now is because he was afraid with losing custody that he wouldn`t be able to tell his children to stop talking.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: In a towering inferno, Josh Powell commits suicide and takes with him his two little boys. The last known connection to Susan Cox Powell. The gorgeous young 28-year-old stockbroker who goes missing out of her own home. That night her husband Josh Powell says, he is taking the boys camping in subfreezing temperatures at midnight on a Sunday night.
They began verbalizing just recently what happened that night their mom went missing. And now they are dead.
With me, special guest, Susan`s sister Denise Cox.
Denise, tell me how are Susan`s parents doing?
COX: Not good. Not good at all. They`re not -- they`ve shut themselves off. And they`re going to stay away from everything. They said they want to be alone for a few days. And grieve. Be able to grieve by themselves and alone. And they`re -- they`re not really coherent right now. They`re in their -- they`re still in shock.
GRACE: Denise, I know that this may sound cliche to you. I have been the victim of a murder, my fiance was murdered. And I thought, there could never be a greater pain than that until I had children. I want to hear your thoughts on the day after. What is in your mind and in your heart?
COX: Well, myself, I have four children. And I don`t know how I`m going to explain this to my younger children. They`re ages 6 and 8. And they don`t quite understand where their cousins are. They wanted to play with them yesterday. And I -- one of them said that Susan was in -- that Charlie and Braiden were in heaven with their mom and my older kids were really close --
GRACE: Denise, why, why did he do this? Why?
COX: To regain control over what was going on. He is very controlling.
GRACE: What do you mean by that?
COX: I had to call her when I wanted to talk to her on the phone. When I thought he would be out, so we could talk about whatever we wanted to. Otherwise we had to watch what we said to each other.
GRACE: Why? What would he do?
COX: He would hang up the phone on me.
GRACE: He would take the phone away from her and hang the phone up on her, on you?
COX: Yes.
GRACE: How were the boys responding to their visitation with him? I know that they were becoming agitated when they would be with him.
COX: The boys really -- once they started opening up to our family they started closing down on their dad.
GRACE: And, Denise, you saw the digression of Josh Powell over the years. I mean, you guys have known him since he was, what, 15? Did he get weirder and weirder? Just like his father?
COX: Yes, he started out a good church-going guy which is one of the things Susan loved about him. And eventually he parted ways with the church and then started parting ways with her because of it. And he started getting closer with his dad.
GRACE: Well, what I don`t understand is with his father having the big crush on his wife, and the wife avoiding the father-in-law, why he would go and live near him or live with him? I don`t understand that, Denise.
COX: I don`t either. That is the least thing Susan would have wanted. She would have wanted the boys to stay with my family which fortunately they were able to at one point. But there was no way she would have wanted her boys staying with her father-in-law.
GRACE: To Dr. Charles Sophy, medical director of the L.A. County Department of Child and Family Services, author of "Side by Side"
Dr. Sophy, you`re extremely well respected and you are in a different jurisdiction, but bottom line you are with social services. I understand that in this case, Dr. Sophie, the social worker was carrying out the judge`s order, of supervised visits.
DR. CHARLES SOPHY, MEDICAL OFFICER, LA CO. DEPT. OF CHILDREN AND FAMILY SERVICES, AUTHOR OF "SIDE BY SIDE": Right.
GRACE: It was not supervised visits in a neutral spot. I get. And that was wrong. Can I ask you to explain why this should have been in a neutral setting?
SOPHY: Well, I mean there may have been -- again I don`t know the specific case. But there may have been a precedent set with other visits with this guy that had been OK within his home. And so the court didn`t feel that maybe the need was to put that specific request in. And that because in the past it was OK, that he has been doing OK. Let`s continue to do it.
GRACE: No offense, Mr. Sophy, but the mother is dead. And the boys are eyewitnesses.
SOPHY: Yes, I get that. Right.
GRACE: All right. So I don`t know how anybody in their right mind could think a supervised visit in the dad`s home is OK. I mean the mom was asleep in the dad`s home. And she is dead, all right?
SOPHY: Right. But when we`re court ordered we have to follow through, no matter whether we ask for McDonald`s or not. We have to follow what we`re told. That`s the problem.
GRACE: Well, you know what, you know what, I understand. Everybody is just doing what they`re told. They`re just following orders. But isn`t there a time, Dr. Sophy, when somebody stands up and says, "No. This is wrong, take another look, Judge?" Does anybody ever do that?
SOPHY: Yes. We do that often. But we still get -- we got to do what we`re told to do. We still have to follow a court order. We could fight to the bitter end. But we still have to follow what the court orders.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Mary in Virginia, hi, Mary, what`s your question?
MARY, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for having me on. First, I just want to say I`m an adoptive mom of three, a sibling group of three that they were removed from their parents for neglect and abuse. And when the mother had visitations in Virginia, they had to meet at CPS. She had to go to child protective services in a room with a two way mirror.
GRACE: Mary, what is your question.
MARY: Well, no, I just had a comment basically.
GRACE: OK.
MARY: That the justice system and the authorities failed these children miserably. And you were right when you said there were red flags everywhere. The suspicious way mom went missing, the way that dad was a person of interest, and the grand dad was a sicko. These children should have never been allowed unsupervised visits other than with Child Protective Service.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The children of Susan Cox Powell now dead at the hand of their father. A report we never thought we would make.
With me, Susan`s sister Denise Cox.
Denise, were you afraid? Did you fear Josh Powell would do something like this to the boys?
COX: Absolutely. I -- from the get-go, from when he was named a person of interest, the boys should have been taken away from him and he should not have been allowed visitation for the fact of he was a person of interest.
GRACE: Denise, I don`t understand. Once the boys begin saying mommy was in the trunk the night she went -- she disappeared, why was there not a murder charge immediately against Josh Powell?
COX: I feel there should have been. I -- from what I understand is that they were trying to build a case without a body. And that`s pretty much all I was being told because my family was trying to protect me from - - I don`t know, from knowing too much or they wanted me not to be so much hurt, but what they did tell me was that they were trying to build a case against him without the body.
GRACE: Denise, what do you believe he did with Susan?
COX: I believe he drugged her so it did seem unnatural for the boys when he took her, and I believe he told them that they were going to go look for mines and I believe he buried her somewhere else, wherever they went. And I believe he was planning to get rid of everything before the police got there, but they didn`t -- he didn`t make it back in time. So they found out, they found her purse. He was going to claim she took off, like he was before.
GRACE: With me is Susan`s sister Denise.
Tonight, our final link to Susan Cox Powell is gone at the hands of Josh Powell. Her two little boys. They were just 5 and 7 died there in the home.
Let`s stop and remember, Army Sgt. 1st Class Johnny Walls, 41, Bremerton, Washington, killed in Afghanistan. Second tour, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, two Meritorious Service medals, four Army Commendations. Served 22 years, loved fishing, cooking, time with family, his 69 Mustang. Leaves behind mom Pat, his stepfather Roger, brother Harvey, sister Roxanne, widow Aileen, sons, Alex, Bradley, Brent.
Johnny Walls, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And good night from friends Cindy and Ross.
Thank you, Cindy and Ross, for visiting our show.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. May Susan`s boys rest in peace with their mother tonight. Until tomorrow night, good night, friend.
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