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No Public Farewell For Houston; Same-Sex Marriage Battle In New Jersey; Sniper Take Aim In Homs; Sizing Up China's Next Expected Leader; Battle over Payroll Tax Cuts; Italian Prosecutors Appeal Knox Verdict; Same-Sex Marriage Law Signed In Washington; Interview With Washington Governor Chris Gregoire

Aired February 14, 2012 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: All right, it's 10:00 in the west, it is 1:00 p.m. in the east coast. I'm Michael Holmes in for Randi.

Well, she could have had a standing room only memorial at a sports arena in Newark, instead Whitney Houston will be honored on Saturday with a private funeral at her childhood church. Investigators in Los Angeles are still determining the cause of Houston's death in a hotel bathtub, but her body is in the care of a funeral home in Jersey. We're following developments on both fronts.

CNN's Don Lemon on the west coast, Deborah Feyerick back east in Newark. Hello to you both. Deb, let's start with you. What can you tell us about the arrangements?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN: Well, Michael, Whitney Houston's mom, Cissy Houston, a gospel legend, she is handling all the funeral arrangements. And they decided to make it an intimate, invitation- only event, at the New Hope Baptist Church, the church where Whitney Houston grew up. According to a Houston friend, who also runs the funeral homes, she said, quote, "The world had Whitney for 30 years, she's ours now."

Now, another friend and church member said that at the church, Whitney Houston also felt safe and adored. Her mother was the choir director there, the musical director. And Whitney often would kick off her shoes and she would just be filled with the holy spirit. And she described her experience growing up in the church saying, when she was there, she was singing for god, and when she would visit later in life, oftentimes, Michael, she wouldn't even bring security, because she felt so comfortable there, that she knew that she was protected, safe, and adored. Now, she did spend time in rehab in May, and then went to work on her movie, "Sparkle." When I asked a friend about how she was doing, here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN, FRIEND OF WHITNEY HOUSTON: Back on her mark, back on top, back being Whitney.

FEYERICK: And as far as you know, was she doing anything hard?

SEAN: No. No. No. And I can't say it enough. No, she wasn't. She was fine. She was Whitney again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Now, her father, who was an entertainment executive, he passed away about five years ago. He is buried at a cemetery not too far from here, the Hollywood Memorial Cemetery. Unclear whether she will also be buried there. But we'll tell you, when she arrived late yesterday, she arrived like a queen. She was flown by private jet -- Tyler Perry, the comedian, his private jet, and then a golden hearse brought her here to the funeral home. Her mother was with her late into the evening, into the early hours. She's being well tended. But in the words of the funeral director, the world had her for 30 years, now she's home -- Michael.

HOLMES: Deborah Feyerick, thanks so much, Deb. Don Lemon, let's go to you now. What more have we learned about Whitney's final moments? What are you hearing out west?

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're learning a lot more, and then not so much, and I'll explain that. I just got off the phone with the assistant chief coroner here, Ed Winter. And again, Ed Winter cautioning everyone, step back, take a deep breath. He's saying, listen, there's so much to do here. There are 800 different types of medications and drugs he says he has to test for at their office, and they can't do all of them within a quick period of time.

And he says, listen, there are a series of things they have to look for. They have to look for whether it was, for example, amphetamines, depressants, what have you, and then how much is in the system. Even if those are in the system, is there enough in the person's system that would cause their death? So, he said to stand by. He says, we have 37 different consultants, 25 full-time pathologists, but there are a lot of people who die every single day here in Los Angeles and it is a very busy department. Just cautioning the media and cautioning people just to stand by.

And I asked him about all of the reports going around about, you know, the different pharmacies and the Mickey Fine reports and all that. He said, listen, Don, right now, we don't know anything about that. We're still looking into all of this and we're finding medical records, trying to find all of that, exactly who the doctor is. He said, but I want to say, there weren't a lot of prescription drugs found in her room. Nothing that would seem out of the ordinary.

I asked again about the water in the lungs, and he said, people have fluid in their lungs, they have water in their lungs. Was there enough in there to cause a death of Whitney Houston? They don't know at this point and they're waiting six to eight weeks for the toxicology tests to come in. And I just wanted -- because I just got off the phone with him, and he said, they do get in the early days some preliminary stuff, but then they have to go back and test that again, as well, just to make sure. So stand by, everyone. Just chill out for a little bit.

I think it's also important to talk about what friends and family members are saying and fellow entertainers about Whitney Houston. Chaka Kahn was on "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT" last night and gave some very poignant thoughts about Whitney Houston, having known her, having been an addict herself, Chaka said. At one point, even getting high, according to her, with Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown. Chaka Kahn said, the people around Whitney should've known better, regardless the cause of her death, to have her out here in L.A. so early -- so early. Take a listen at what Chaka Kahn said last night. Good stuff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHAKA KAHN: Whoever flew her out to perform at that party should have provided someone to be there, to somehow look -- just keep the riffraff out of the situation. Just keep some of the dangerous people away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST, "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT": Was she very vulnerable, do you think --

KAHN: Yes.

MORGAN: -- Whitney, even to the end, to that kind of situation?

KAHN: Absolutely. We're all -- I am. I am -- I'm very vulnerable, as an -- I mean, I'm not -- I will never do cocaine again. I know that, but we are sensitive, highly sensitive people, entertainers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Yes, so that was Chaka Khan last night on "PIERS MORGAN." And I have to tell you, Michael, that yesterday, I went to that club, the last pictures of Whitney Houston seen in that club. The club, one of the managers said, it was very hot in there, nothing seemed out of the ordinary, anybody leaving that club would be sweaty. And again, we don't know Whitney's frame of mind or how she was that night, because we weren't inside Whitney's mind. We'll have to wait for this to play out, the toxicology reports to see in all of this thing. So, back to you.

HOLMES: All right, Don, thanks for that. Don lemon there out west.

Well, New Jersey is one step closer to legalizing same-sex marriage after the state's Senate gives its seal of approval, but there is one major hurdle ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Let's stop treating this like a political football and let's let the people of New Jersey decide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Will Governor Chris Christie follow through with his promise to veto? That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: The Syrian government's brutal assault on the city of Homs just gets worse and worse. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE.)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Along with that sort of heavy shelling that's been going on almost constantly, opposition groups say snipers continue to fire at anyone who dares go into the streets. Activists say today's shelling was some of the heaviest in the past five days. One resident says there is no longer any safe place in the entire city. Activists say at least 40 people have been killed today in Homs and elsewhere around the country.

The man who is expected to be the next leader of China is now on a visit to the United States. Just a short time ago, Chinese vice president Xi Jinping held talks with President Obama at the White House. No details at the moment on what was discussed, but trade, the uprising in Syria, Iran, and China's growing military strength no doubt high on the list. Right now, Xi is having lunch with vice president Joe Biden and secretary of state Hillary Clinton.

On a thorny domestic issue, President Obama and Congress again locking horns on payroll tax cuts for millions of Americans. He's pushing lawmakers to extend the payroll tax cut for the rest of the year. The president says failure to do so could derail the economic recovery. Those comments coming a day after house Republicans dropped their demand that any extension be offset by spending cuts elsewhere in the budget. But still hanging is a jobless benefits extension, Democrats don't want to separate the two issues. Unless Congress acts, both run out at the end of the month.

Listen to this, Italian prosecutors have filed an appeal to Italy's highest court in the murder acquittal of the American student Amanda Knox. You remember, Knox and her ex-boyfriend were convicted of murdering Knox's British roommate, Meredith Kercher, back in 2009. Both of those convictions were overturned back in October. Knox has since returned to the U.S. and said that she would not return to Italy.

Same-sex couples in New Jersey one step closer to saying I do. The state's Senate voting yesterday to legalize same-sex marriage. The measure heads next to the state assembly. Their vote is planned for Thursday. Now, if the bill ends up on Republican Governor Chris Christie's desk, he has promised he'll veto it. But could Governor Christie be persuaded to change his mind on that issue? A fellow governor says, well, she's going to try after signing same-sex marriage into law just yesterday, Washington Governor Chris Gregoire says she has a message for Christie. She joins me next to tell me when it is. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS GEGOIRE (D), WASHINGTON: We have finally said yes to marriage equality. We join six other states and the District of Columbia, allowing same-sex marriage and their experience proves to all of us that the sky will fall rhetoric is simply not true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And that was Washington Governor Chris Gregoire, speaking right after she signed the same-sex marriage law yesterday. She also called it one of her proudest moments as governor. As she said, Washington is the seventh state to allow same-sex marriages. The others are Vermont, Iowa, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and New York. New Jersey's legislature is one step away. And it is also being debated in Maryland. Also in the Illinois state house.

But let's get back to Washington state and what the decision means for them. Joining me now on the phone is the governor.

Governor, you said that this is the civil rights issue of the younger generation. How do you look at what your state is doing? Part of a pioneering movement? How do you with view it?

GREGOIRE (via telephone): You know, for me, it's very much like my youth. And the civil rights movement of my youth was that of racial inequality in America. And while we are by no means done with that movement, the fact of the matter is, as passionate as my generation felt about equality there, I have found, in my daughter's generation, the same compassion and passion to make sure that there's equality when it comes to same-sex marriage. So I think that by far and away the younger generation is trying to let the older generation in America know where the right thing is for us to go as a country.

HOLMES: Governor, as you know, New Jersey's state senate approved same-sex marriages just yesterday. The state assembly is going to take it up. Of course, the governor says she's going to veto it. Let's just play a little bit about part of his reasoning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I think this is not an issue that should rest solely in my hands, in the hands of the senate president or the hands of the speaker or the other 118 members of the legislature. Let's let the people of New Jersey decide what's right for the state. Let's put the question of same-sex marriage on the ballot this fall in the hands of the people. The time when the most people will be voting in a presidential election year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Governor Gregoire, you know, is it something that should be put to a referendum, or do you think this is a matter of leadership? What would you say to Governor Christie? GREGOIRE: Well, actually, this was probably the bigger issue in my senate. We worried whether we could get the 25th vote for marriage equality. We not only got 25, we got 28. What was closer was the issue of whether it was referred to the ballots or the voters. And what I shared with those who ultimately said no to that measure was, we are elected to make decisions. And we are here to represent and ensure that all Washingtonians are treated equally. So we need to step up, take the vote, make the decision. That's what we're here to do.

And sometimes, historically, the majority has not protected the minority. As legislators, as governor, that is our responsibility. So we were able to ensure that the vote was taken here, the decision was made here, and now there are those who promise to put it on the ballot in the fall. I don't fear that. I'm not afraid of it. And that's their right. But meanwhile, our legislature has proudly stood up to its responsibility.

HOLMES: Are you going to call Governor Christie, literally?

GREGOIRE: Well, I wrote him a letter at the end of January, because I know him, and he and I get along very well. I reached out to him to tell him I had been on my own personal journey, because while I was governor, I'm also a catholic. And I shared with him the remarks that I gave when I announced my position. And it took me three months to write those remarks. And I told him it represented the culmination of my journey. And I indicated to him I would be more than happy to talk with him about how I reached it and how proud I was and how much better I felt about myself after seven years of dealing with the issue.

So, assuming the assembly passes it in New Jersey, I would really very much like to reach out and at least share with the governor what we've done here and what a proud day it was for Washington state yesterday and see if he would like to join us in that same sort of pride for the people of New Jersey.

HOLMES: Well, we had an impassioned plea from within your state, from what some may consider an unlikely source, a Republican lawmaker. Let's just listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAUREEN WALSH (R), WASHINGTON STATE SENATE: My daughter came out of the closet a couple of years ago. And you know what I thought, I was just going to agonize about that. Nothing's different. She's still a fabulous human being. And she's met a person that she loves very much. And some day, by God, I want to throw a wedding for that kid. And I hope that's exactly what I can do. I hope she will not feel like a second class citizen involved in something called a domestic partnership, which frankly sounds like a Merry Maids franchise to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Republican Representative Maureen Walsh there. I'm wondering, because this can be a very political issue, how much did that play into the support you ended up getting? GREGOIRE: No question, I think her remarks, a Republican female from a very conservative part of my state, who shared her own personal story of her daughter, was a compelling message to the people in the legislature, and, frankly, to my entire state. And it's that kind of story that I think is really what will allow us, as a nation, to move forward on this. When we realize it's moms and dads, one senator spoke of his father in our state senate. Another Republican on the house floor spoke of his brother. When we realize this is not about Republicans or Democrats, this is not about anything other than respect for our fellow human being, and that fellow human being may very well be a mom, a dad, a brother, a sister, an aunt, uncle. I think that's why America will finally step up.

That's the journey my state's been on. That's the revelation that it has seen. And that's what has moved us. And Representative Walsh's comments were absolutely compelling on the floor of our house.

HOLMES: Governor Chris Gregoire, thank you so much.

GREGOIRE: You bet. Thank you.

HOLMES: All right, what if I told you that there is a place with an unemployment rate of 80 percent, a high school dropout rate of 40 percent. A place where the crime rate is seven times the national average. Hard to believe, right? Well, what if I told you that place was right here in the United States. That place there. Find out why the outlook is so grim there next in "Under Covered."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Murders, rapes, drug and alcohol addiction. We're not talking about inner cities here, but life on many Native American reservations. A story we think is "Under Covered." President Obama recently met with national American tribal leaders, vowing, quote, "you have a president that's got your back."

He put his words into action. Recently the government ending a two- year surge campaign to reduce crime at four reservations considered the most dangerous. Improvements were made at all but one, the Wind River Indian Reservation in Wyoming. It is massive, by the way. It's about the size of Rhode Island and Delaware together. And it's home to just 14,000 American Indians.

The problems, just as massive. Now, according to "The New York Times," you know, we're going to talk more about this with Larry Echo Hawk, the assistant secretary for Indian affairs. Before we begin, though, I want to talk about some very troubling issues at Wind River. The stats are amazing.

During the surge, violent crime, as we said, it went up. It went up 7 percent. Teens are twice as likely to kill themselves as peers elsewhere in the state. Life span, 49 years. Put that in perspective. Twenty years fewer than in Iraq. Unemployment rate, 80 percent. Same as Zimbabwe. High school dropout rate, 40 percent. That's more than twice the state average. Also, a soaring rate of drug use, alcoholism.

You know, first of all, Larry Echo Hawk, what do you make of that? That's post-surge.

LARRY ECHO HAWK, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR INDIAN AFFAIRS: Well, you know, it's unfortunate that across Indian country we do have these significant challenges and public safety. But I think our presidential initiative is working. We had, overall, a 35 percent decrease in violent crime among the four reservations. Wind River presented special challenges, 2.2 million acre reservation, with just 11 law enforcement officers in the beginning.

So when we brought in additional officers to really only bring them up to the national ratio of how many officers you should have in a community, what we were able to do is catch the attention of the community there, and they began to realize that if they made reports, you know, that there would be a response by law enforcement.

HOLMES: But the rates went up. Crime spiked. What is it about that place that didn't work, apart from the size, the logistics you're talking about. Is there something more endemic there at a grassroots level, a societal level?

HAWK: Well, actually, if you just go to the end of the year, to December 31st, we had an 11 percent decrease. So at that particular time, when the snapshot was taken, it was a 7 percent increase. But now the trend was clearly that this surge was working and, you know, we anticipate that it will continue to decrease so that we'll get those numbers where we'd like to see them.

HOLMES: Well, now that the surge is theoretically over, what do you do to try to improve things there?

HAWK: Well, we continue to work on the core problems, which is poverty. High unemployment, you know, I would say as a former prosecuting attorney, often leads to substance abuse and neglect and, unfortunately, high crime. So we are not only providing additional police resources in communities, but, you know, we're focusing on education and employment, economic development. Those things that in the long-term will make a huge difference.

HOLMES: It's not a new problem there, is it? I mean I was reading a case of somebody who's child had been murdered and their brother and father had also died violently. This is generational.

HAWK: Well, the federal government has not stepped up and met its responsibilities to Indian country to communities like Wind River. We're doing much better now. And, in fact, the Obama administration has declared public safety as a top priority. And you can see that because we have increased funding for public safety by 30 percent with the leadership of the president and the support of the United States Congress. So we're paying attention to this issue and making progress. And we'll do that -- we'll continue to do that even at Wind River.

HOLMES: Still a long way to go at Wind River.

Larry Echo Hawk, appreciate your time. Thanks.

HAWK: Thank you. HOLMES: Well, the calls are growing for Newt Gingrich to drop out of the presidential race, but the former speaker has a, well, it's a not so subtle message for the naysayers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am still here and we're going come back again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Coming up, if Gingrich stays in the race through Super Tuesday, is Mitt Romney guaranteed the nomination? That's "Fair Game" coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: OK. This is part of the show where we get to the heart of the political debate, where all sides are "Fair Game."

There's a VIP visiting the White House today -- we mentioned it earlier --the Chinese vice president, Xi Jinping. He's the eventual heir to China's presidency. He and President Obama have been talking about a range of issues today, no doubt including trade and the U.S. military presence in the region, China's growing military strength.

Joining me now, CNN contributor, Maria Cardona, and Republican analyst, Lenny McAllister.

Let's start with you, Maria.

When the president's talking to the Chinese heir apparent, what message does he need to send here? Because when you look at the Chinese economy, he's the one that's holding the cards.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think the message that he needs to send is the one he actually sent, which is the right one, that we need to continue working with China. They're an incredibly important ally in the world. We both need each other to move forward economically and for national security reasons.

So he can be very diplomatic in terms of the issues that he wants to talk to China about while, at the same time -- and he mentioned this in his public comments -- making sure that voters here know that Americans know that they will continue to push China on issues of national security, on issues of human rights, and on issues of fairness when it comes to trade. And he was very clear about that. I think that he has to be careful, but he can do both in terms of making sure that we continue to cooperate with China, while at the same time, pushing them on.

HOLMES: I think polite in public, and firmer behind closed doors.

Lenny McAllister, Republicans have been talking tough about China, but you know, a lot of people think that this guy could be easier to deal with than the incumbent. How are Republicans going to be looking at this visit?

LENNY MCALLISTER, REPUBLICAN ANALYST: Well, they're going to be looking at this visit and wondering how President Obama is going to make sure that he lets the Chinese know that the presidential heir is there for the Syrian people.

We cannot forget that the Russians and the Chinese were the ones that blocked some of the movement that the U.N. tried to do with regard to the Syrian slaughter that's going on right now in the Middle East. We want to know if America's still going to be that beacon of freedom throughout the world. We know about the economic relationship between the Chinese and us here in America. We have to look now and see, are we still willing to stand up for freedom, even after President Obama submitted yet another budget that's looking at a $1 trillion deficit in its first year.

HOLMES: Let's talk politics then. Rick Santorum getting a bit of good news in the polls. I think we've got the numbers to show you. What about him going forward now? There's the numbers there. Rick Santorum at 30 percent. That's not bad. That's "The New York Times" poll there. Romney trailing at 27 percent.

Is that a surge that can hold through Super Tuesday, Maria?

CARDONA: Well, I think it certainly shows that Santorum that as now become the anybody-but-Romney candidate and the standard-bearer for conservatives in this race, who have been desperately looking for somebody who can really take the mantle and represent them in this race. They really haven't found this person. It's absolutely great news for Santorum. Can he continue that into Super Tuesday? If he continues to raise the amount of money that he's raising and if he continues to draw the crowds that he's been drawing, I think he can. What we're going to see from Romney is that they're going to go at him with everything that they can from their Super Pac. But Romney is in real trouble here. So we'll see.

HOLMES: Lenny, what about Newt Gingrich? He's still hanging around. That does sort of split the anti-Romney vote. Is there any reason, in fact, I think let's play part of what he had to say earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH, (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He had a really good Tuesday, and suddenly, the very people who told me I was dead in June, came back and said, see, I told you so.

(LAUGHTER)

Well, I have a message for them. I'm still here. And we're going to come back again.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP) HOLMES: Any reason, Lenny, why he should pull out?

MCALLISTER: Well, the reasons why he should pull out is his performance in Florida, his performance recently. The fact that the one thing he always had going for him were his debate performances. He fell flat in Florida and he's had this big lag in between times whek get back on stage and contrast himself.

There are a couple of CNN debates coming up before Super Tuesday. If he can bounce back, get a little bit more money behind him, and maybe he can contrast himself against both the front-runner, who -- whether that's Santorum at this point or it goes back to being Romney and President Obama, he can get that bounce. But he can't look the way he did in Florida. If he has another Florida performance, he's done.

HOLMES: Yes.

Maria Cardona and Lenny McAllister, we've got to leave it there. Thanks so much.

CARDONA: Thank you so much.

HOLMES: That is "Fair Game."

MCALLISTER: Thank you.

HOLMES: As we've been saying, the situation in Syria getting grimmer by the day. It really is carnage there. Coming up, some dramatic new video surfaces online, the daring rescue -- see it there -- of a small child caught up in the violence. Snipers in the area.

Plus, a CNN reporter has made it back inside that country. Not Arwa Damon's first visit. What she's been seeing on the ground. That's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Inside the devastated Syrian city of Homs, an opposition activist is saying this: You have to be lucky to stay safe. Syrian forces once again said to be shelling randomly, and pretty much constantly, while snipers pick off civilians at will. If you've been following the almost year-long onslaught on anyone the regime considers a threat, you'll know social media has been the primary source of information, most of the time. The government has barred foreign journalists from going in, except in rare occasions.

CNN's Arwa Damon has made her way inside the country. We're not going to give her exact location for safety reasons, but in a transmission last night, she talked about the future, as seen by activists she's met so far.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They believe that, at the end of the day, at some point in time, who knows when, the regime is going to fall. They quite simply, they cannot go back. And Syria will not go back to the way that it was.

But one young activist I was speaking to put it this way. And he said, if there is military intervention, yes, there will be a lot of bloodshed, but it's going to be over a lot quicker. If there isn't military intervention, there is going to be even more bloodshed, and it is going to take a lot longer to bring down the regime.

What a lot of people are realizing and accepting at this stage is that this is going to be a bloody battle. That more lives are going to be lost, and that perhaps the biggest challenge for Syria too is going to be after the regime topples.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Let's get some other perspective now.

My colleague, Nic Robertson, has report to find Syrian inside and out of the country. We're also joined in New York by the acclaimed Palestinian author and journalist, Rula Jebreal.

Rula, let's start with you.

I want to get a sense on what you see as the potential end game in Syria. What is it that the Assad regime wants to do by pretty much pounding Homs into the dust?

RULA JEBREAL, PALESTINIAN AUTHOR & JOURNALIST: Hello, Michael. Well, obviously, they are fighting for their survival. It's not only the Assad. What I mean is, Gadhafi was only a family. Mubarak was a family. We get rid of them quite easily.

The Assad are a sect and they are two million people. They are in charge of the secret service, of the military, of everything in the country. Business, everything. And they are still very strong. And they will not let go. They know they are backed by Iran, from one hand, because they give them cash and money and, of course, Army, and Russia and China. And they are emboldened by this. And they will not give up until Assad will go with one bullet in his head. That's the only way he will go.

HOLMES: Nic Robertson, we've talked about this on CNN International the potential of Bashar al Assad to be sacrificed for the greater good of the regime. Do you still see that as a scenario that might play out?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, from Russia's perspective, the one thing they want is to keep a foothold in the region. This is the last piece of influence they have in the Middle East. Iran has its reasons as well to keep a friendly regime in Damascus.

And if the opposition, which is a vastly majority Sunni gets in, both Russia and Iran will see them, the opposition, as being certainly not going to look out for their interests. So they need to maintain a foothold. And if Assad is going to become unpalatable to the international community, unable to run the country because of sanctions, unable to be able to sort of bring some kind of stability and, let's face it, it's deteriorating rapidly, then someone else within the regime circles might have to do.

And it's been suggested the vice president, who everyone who analyzes this says, is really not a strong politician and is run by the wider Assad family. So even the options aren't good. But, yes, somebody to replace Assad that keeps Russia, Iran's footprint stronghold there.

HOLMES: Yes, they've got interests there the way that U.S. has got interests in Bahrain, so they're playing that geopolitical game.

I want to show you a clip of a video that popped up on YouTube today. It is a chilling piece of tape. Let's roll that. A young boy running across the street there. And you can see -- we don't know who that is trying to run him and get him out of the way. And then you see the father go back and get the child's shoe, if it is the father. We're not sure. But at the beginning of that clip, you hear the gunshot, a real crack as well. So the gunshot was actually quite close.

Nic, how does the YouTube coverage jive with how the reality is on the ground? You were there just four weeks ago. It is not easy to cover that place.

ROBERTSON: It's not. And we can't be in the places where many of these YouTube clips are being filmed. But in the places where we visited, where people were filming events that we were attending, that we were later able to see, it met with -- it was the same as where we were seeing at the time. And they were able to sort of provide a postscript after we left.

The army started shooting, they said, and we could see it on these clips. We didn't see the army shooting, but we saw the army there with their heavy armored vehicles. And the images that you see, some of them are so horrific. These are things that nobody would manufacture. They're so horrific. So it does seem to match the reality of the clips seems to match the reality of what we know is happening.

HOLMES: Rula, as you look at what's been going on over there now, do you worry that nothing is going to be done? That the impotence, if you like, of the U.N., is going to continue because of Russia and China's geopolitical self-interests?

JEBREAL: Well, obviously, the international community failed to stop the violence in any kind of way. And that gave a green light to the Assad to even harass more and shell his own people, bombard them. He doesn't care anymore. He knows that he's backed by Russia and China. He knows that there will be no resolution like 1970 that led to the no-fly zone in Libya, he knows that. But even the solution to have Farouk Shar (voice-over), his vice, taking his place, it will not make the people happy anymore.

There's so much blood in the streets. And what's happening today -- and this is the truth -- Syria is becoming a battleground between Iran from one side, Shia world and the Sunni world backed with the Saudis and Qataris. And that will become another civil war like the Lebanese one. It's even worse than a civil war. It's total anarchy. And the Assad regime will not give up power. They learned the lesson from Iraq. Once the Sunni gave up power, they were totally dismissed from all political positions and economic positions. And that's what they are scared for.

HOLMES: I want to talk more about that, but stay right there, because we're going to take a short break now.

When we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about that sectarian side of things, which is a real concern. Also about the Arab Spring a year later.

I want both of your opinions, so do stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Back to our conversation with CNN's Nic Robertson, here in Atlanta, and in New York, Palestinian author, journalist, screenwriter, TV host, Rula Jebreal.

We've been talking about Syria, and let's talk a little more broadly, perhaps, about the Arab Spring.

Nic, let's start with you.

You and I have been in and out of Arab for the last year, some of the various places and various uprisings. When you look at the region now and the Arab Spring as it stands now, what do you see? You get rid of dictators in whatever shape or form, popular uprising or otherwise, we don't know what we're going to get.

ROBERTSON: We're beginning to see what we're going to get in the form of a revolution that was relatively peaceful, and now there have been elections and we see the parties that are emerging there, the same in Egypt, the parties that are emerging here, the Muslim Brotherhood being the stronger pick. There are divisions in the Muslim Brotherhood. But there's a political process that's under way. But when you look at Libya where the opposition was widely armed, there were lots of different militias, the future there is still far, far from certain. All these people who got weapons don't want to give them up. They're still in their militias from different towns, Misrata --

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: It's a very tribal involvement there, too.

ROBERTSON: A completely different complexion from Syria, for example. So there is no one-size-fits-all. But we can begin to see some of the images of what may emerge coming out. But the final picture, we're a long way from that. And at this point, we may have seen in the past year the peaceful part of the Arab Spring. The bloodier part may be yet to come.

HOLMES: Yes to come. Rula, let's bring you into the conversation.

Before the break, you were talking about something I find fascinating and disturbing at the same time, in equal parts, the whole sectarian nature of the region and the notion of proxy wars being fought, particularly the enmity between the Saudis and the Iranians. And we've seen there claims of proxy activity in Bahrain, for example. You see evidence of that starting up in Syria. And what does that mean, then? It's spilling over into Lebanon. It becomes a regional potential for a wider war, doesn't it?

JEBREAL: It is already spilling into Lebanon. Last week there were clashes in the south. We know all of that, Hezbollah is an ally of the Assad regime. There were clashes between pro-Syrian regime and the people opposing the Syrian regime. The real saying is, let's start from the beginning. The Iraqi war was a declining moment in that.

The moment that war was lost, Bahrain was the winner of that war, and the Shiite spine became stronger than ever, became Syria, Lebanon, Iran and Iraq. That's what's threatening to everybody. With Iran pursuing a nuclear bomb and making research as the IAEA said to, in a way, empower themselves more and to weaponize the facility, it's becoming more threatening to the Sunni world, Qatar, the Saudis. And they're using the Syrian conflict today to measure the power -- who has more power in there. Breaking that Syrian regime is breaking part of that spine.

HOLMES: Al-Qaeda, too, getting involved from Iraq and sending their operatives into Syria as well. That sort of reinforces that sectarian violence.

JEBREAL: That's why we need to do something very quickly. Because if we all remember, that uprising started in a very peaceful way. It started last march, it was very peaceful, it was pro- democracy, and people were asking for freedom and some reforms, not even to get rid of the regime. Today, they are far away from that. Today, they are actually fighting for their survival.

HOLMES: Yes. Rula, we'll have to leave it there.

Rula Jebreal and Nic Robertson, appreciate both of you having this conversation, an important one, worldwide, and also to this country, very much so.

Still to come, the queen of soul and Whitney Houston's godmother honoring the fallen singer. More of Aretha Franklin's touching tribute coming up.

But first, a little girl who stole our heart and Justin Bieber's this Valentine's Day as well. We're talking about six-year-old Ava Roth who is fighting a rare form of brain cancer. When the pop star heard about her dream to meet him, he flew her from Boston to New York to hang out. They shared games, cupcakes and hugs. Afterwards he tweeted, "That was one of the best things I've ever done. She was awesome. Feeling really inspired now." So were we, Justin. For making a girl's dream come true, you are a rock star.

(SINGING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: In medical news now, remarkable use of stem cells. Researchers say they have successfully used a patients own stem cells to undo some of the damage of some heart attacks. That means they re- glue damaged heart tissue and even reduced scarring of the heart by up to 50 percent. This is the first time they've ever been able to regenerate heart tissue in that way. While it's encouraging news, researchers stress that these are early results and a lot more testing needs to be done. Incredible stuff, folks.

Time to check stories making news right now at "Street Level.

In Charlotte, North Carolina, Aretha Franklin paid a special tribute to her goddaughter, Whitney Houston.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARETHA FRANKLIN, SINGER & GODMOTHER TO WHITNEY HOUSTON: This is for Whitney Elizabeth Houston.

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: The queen of soul said there is nothing like music to comfort the soul at a private concert last night. 600 people listening to an emotional Franklin as she sang Houston's hit "I Will Always Love You." She asked the crowd to pray for Houston's family.

In Chicago, some parents fed up with a local charter school. Parents say they're being charged excessively charged fines by the Noble Network of Charter Schools. When a child breaks a rule for attendance, dress code or behavior, they're hit with a $5 detention fee. The school has collected hundreds of thousands of dollars this way. Critics say the policy is punitive and predatory.

Controversial boxer, Floyd Mayweather, has done it again. This time, stirring up drama, tweeting about New York Knicks basketball sensation, Jeremy Lin. He tweeted, quote, "Jeremy Lin is a good player, but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise." Really? Mayweather insulted rival boxer Manny Paquiao with racial and homophobic slurs two years ago. I still don't get that one.

Thanks for watching, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes.

CNN NEWSROOM continues now with Brooke Baldwin.

Ms. Baldwin, good day.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Holmes. Good to see you. HOLMES: Yes. You, too.

BALDWIN: Have a good rest of your day.