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Nancy Grace
Hubby Says He Accidentally Shot Wife; Baby Ava Missing from Local Starbucks
Aired February 27, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Florida. A beautiful mother of two watching her 3-year-old little girl in the bath, when suddenly, Mommy is gunned down in the master bathroom with an AK-47.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we obtain the chilling 911 call as Daddy insists Mommy`s AK-47 shooting death an accident.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Flagler County 911. What is the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife`s been shot!
911 OPERATOR: Where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Did she shoot herself, or was it an accident?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma`am. It was an accident.
911 OPERATOR: It`s an accident?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was holding one of the guns and (INAUDIBLE) just looking at it and talking to her about it. She was talking about the laser site on it, about it being bright. And I pulled the trigger. It`s never loaded. Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Please hurry! Please, my daughter`s in the tub. She`s dying. Oh, my goodness. Please hurry!
911 OPERATOR: They`re on their way, sir. They`re going as fast as they can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no wound. She`s not bleeding out of the front. (INAUDIBLE) check the back.
911 OPERATOR: Did you already go ahead and -- you rolled her over once, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s got breast implants, but it looks like it went in and hit a bone and shot her to the left side of her body, and it came out of her back on the left side. And there`s -- there`s -- there`s stuff that`s coming out of her body! Please hurry!
911 OPERATOR: OK, OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, baby! Stay with me, please, baby! Stay with me! Come on, baby! Stay with me! Stay with me! OK. That`s a good girl! I love you!
911 OPERATOR: OK. I need you to do me a favor. I need you to go outside, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live Arizona. A 2-year-old little girl last seen at a local Starbucks, Phoenix suburbs, vanishing without a trace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two-year-old Ava Enlow`s mom saw her at a local Starbucks and never saw her again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing out of the ordinary. They weren`t, like, they were moving (ph) -- basically moving away or anything. It was pretty normal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But when it was time to pick her up, Ethena (ph) knew something wasn`t right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When mom goes to see her little girl, she`s gone!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your heart is pounding incredibly fast. And then, you know, you`re thinking, OK, what`s going on? Why is -- why is there no answer at the door?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ethena called police and realized Brend (ph) was having some financial trouble.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police reportedly found Anderson`s house partially vacated, with no sign of Ava.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s when the alarm bells started going off and that`s when my adrenaline was running.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No leads to where he or Ava might be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no idea where she`s at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Live to Florida. In the last hours, we obtain chilling 911 tape, Daddy insisting Mommy`s AK-47 shooting death an accident? Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Flagler County 911. What is your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need emergency medical services! Please hurry up!
911 OPERATOR: Where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife`s been shot!
911 OPERATOR: Where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m at (DELETED)
911 OPERATOR: Did she shoot herself, or was it an accident?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma`am. It was an accident.
911 OPERATOR: It`s an accident?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Where is she bleeding?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s bleeding out of her chest and her back. Please hurry!
911 OPERATOR: OK. We`ll go ahead and get them -- we`ll get them there. Can you go ahead and tell me if she is breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she is, but sort of not really. She`s falling out of consciousness. Please hurry!
911 OPERATOR: OK. All right. They`re going to go ahead and send somebody out. I just need you to answer some questions for me, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: How did this happen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was holding one of the guns and I was just looking at it and talking to her about it. She was talking about the laser site on it, about it being bright. And I pulled the trigger. It`s never loaded. Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Please hurry!
911 OPERATOR: OK. All right. They`re on their way, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK, OK, just go ahead -- get...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, that`s what I always do when I`m bathing the twins, it`s, like, comment on the brightness of the laser lock on an AK-47!
Take a look at this mom, bathing her 3-year-old little girl, had just gotten the other child, a 6-year-old, to school that morning. In the bathroom, the master bath, she`s gunned down with an AK-47 as her husband says he was showing her the gun and showing her the bright intensity of the laser lock on the gun.
To Pierre Tristam, editor, Flaglerlive.com. What do we know about the morning of the shooting? Where was the 6-year-old? And what can you tell me about an alleged arsenal of weapons in the home?
PIERRE TRISTAM, FLAGLERLIVE.COM (via telephone): We know that the 6- year-old boy was at school. We also know that the gentleman, William Merrill, was, according to him, himself giving the bath to the 6-year-old (sic). So at some point, he stood up and went to the closet where the gun was located in the bathroom, took out the gun and started playing with it.
The incident developed, and after the arrest, 13 rifles and 6 handguns, not counting the AK-47, were part of the arsenal that was collected.
GRACE: To Robyn Walensky, anchor of "The Blaze." Robyn, thank you for being with us. Robyn, Pierre was telling us about a cache of weapons. What do we know was found in the home?
ROBYN WALENSKY, "THE BLAZE": Well, Nancy, there were 20 to 25 guns. This guy apparently loved guns. His middle name is Carson. That`s what he goes by.
What strikes me about this incident, when you hear him in the 911 call, boy, does he sound like a fake and a fraud with the boo-hoo tears and, Oh, my wife, Oh, my wife. You know what? I really believe in my heart that he knew what he was doing. There`s a history of domestic violence in this case.
And you know what strikes me as odd, Nancy? And you know this because you have children. What person who has a 6-year-old and a 3-year-old is keeping an AK-47 with a laser on it, used normally to hunt and to kill animals, in a bathroom closet? Really? You would be keeping your guns, Nancy, locked up in a safe, would you not?
GRACE: Well, number one, Robyn Walensky, for the most part, guns in the home are one of -- one of the leading causes of accidental death in our country not because intruders come in and there`s a big shootout, but because the people that live in the home shoot themselves by accident.
But I`ve got a big problem -- back to you, Pierre Tristam, editor of Flaglerlive.com. Pierre, I don`t understand why anybody would take out an AK-47 in the bathroom where you`ve got a baby in the tub. Explain how that whole thing went down.
TRISTAM: It`s extremely difficult to get into the mindset of this guy. All I can see from the record is that there have been a lot of issues between him and his wife in the past. And this could have been part of an argument. We don`t know. We only go on what he`s telling the cops at this point.
GRACE: Exactly. To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Let`s take it from the top, Ell. Tell me what happened that morning. Then I`m going to listen again to find out what I can learn from that 911 call, Ell.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. So this is 9:17 in the morning when the 911 call comes in. It is actually...
GRACE: Ellie! Ellie! Ellie! 9:17 AM -- isn`t that a little early to be showing off your AK-47 in the bathroom?
JOSTAD: Right. Well, and the husband, Carson Merrill, says that he`s just showing it to his wife. She`s commenting on the brightness of the laser scope on the weapon. But he does admit in that 911 call, I pulled the trigger. He says, however, the gun was never loaded.
He tells the dispatcher that the baby is actually in the bathtub. This is in the bathroom that this is happening. He says he`s taken the gun out of a closet. He is also heard talking to his wife, saying, Stay with me, baby. He says she`s going in and out of consciousness, doesn`t appear to be breathing.
GRACE: OK, Liz, let`s take a listen to the 911 call. Apparently, Daddy breaks down in tears during the call. Let`s hear that.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Where`s the weapon?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s on her -- it`s on her left side. Please!
911 OPERATOR: The weapon`s on her lefthand side?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. Where`s...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... on her right side.
911 OPERATOR: OK. You rolled her on her -- OK.
They`re on their way, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s dying!
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Please hurry!
911 OPERATOR: They`re on their way, sir. They`re going as fast as they can. What`s your name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is (DELETED)
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is anybody else in the house with you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It`s my daughter.
911 OPERATOR: Your daughter? How old is your daughter?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter, she`s -- she`s -- she`s 3.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Please hurry! Oh, my God! Please hurry!
911 OPERATOR: OK, OK. They`re on their way.
Does she have any medical conditions?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, she doesn`t have any medical conditions.
911 OPERATOR: No medical conditions?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma`am.
911 OPERATOR: How old is she?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s 20 -- she`s 30. She`s 30. Come on, baby! Stay with me! It`s OK!
911 OPERATOR: She`s still breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry. What`s that?
911 OPERATOR: She`s still breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. She`s still breathing. (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK, OK. All right, OK, OK. Are her eyes open?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her eyes are open, yes, ma`am. Stay with me, baby! Stay with me! Baby, stay with me. That`s a good girl!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Keep her as calm as possible, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
There`s no wound. There`s -- she`s not bleeding out of the front. Should I check the back?
911 OPERATOR: Did you already -- did you already go ahead and -- you rolled her over once, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I rolled her over on her...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, I don`t hear any crying. I don`t hear any at all.
Joining me right now is a special guest joining us exclusively, a very good friend of the mom in this case, Stefanie Merrill, mother of two, bathing her 3-year-old little girl in the tub when Daddy is showing off his AK-47, and whoops, an accident. Mommy`s gunned down on the bathroom floor.
Carol Frank is with us. Carol, thank you for being with us.
CAROL FRANK, FRIEND OF WILLIAM MERRILL (via telephone): Hello. Hi.
GRACE: Carol, thanks so much for being with us. I think I`ve got you now. Can you hear me?
FRANK: Yes, I can hear you. Yes.
GRACE: Carol, I know that you are a very good friend of both Carson and Stefanie. What do you make of what happened? What are police saying at this hour?
FRANK: Well, I`m not -- I really haven`t been dealing with the family at all because I`m -- like I said, I`m more friends with Carson, coming over, you know, to the house with -- you know, helping my husband with stuff.
Honestly, in my heart, I believe it was an accident. Carson loved his wife too much. He loved his children too much. I mean, he`s a great man. I mean, he -- I don`t believe he did it. I really don`t. He was just too involved with his family. And he was a gun buff. He really was.
GRACE: Explain. What do you mean by "too involved with his family"?
FRANK: What I mean by that is he loves them very much. I mean, he was always, always constantly talking about Stefanie, constantly talking about his children. You know, he was just -- you know, he was too much in love with them. I mean, I don`t really believe he did that.
I mean, I, like -- I`ve experienced an accident in my family. But fortunately, my nephew didn`t die over it. My brother at one point -- he`s a gun buff, too. And (INAUDIBLE) I know accidents can happen is because he took his gun out and was -- in the closet. And he was just looking at it, and he didn`t realize there was a bullet in the chamber. And it went off.
GRACE: Right. Well, you know, that`s interesting that you said that, Carol, because if Carson Merrill is a gun buff -- and apparently, he is because he`s got over a dozen guns there in the home...
FRANK: My brother does, too.
GRACE: ... wouldn`t he know that the gun was loaded if he`s a gun buff?
FRANK: I don`t know. You know, it`s hard. It`s just really hard, you know? It`s a...
GRACE: What do you think about that question? If he is a gun buff, wouldn`t he know that, you know, that the gun was loaded? And not only that, someone that`s experienced with guns I`m surprised would have an AK- 47 out in the bathroom while the child is taking a bath, Carol.
FRANK: I know. That`s -- it`s kind of strange. Yes, it is. I can agree with that.
GRACE: Well, I`m just...
FRANK: I don`t know.
GRACE: I know you`re very good friends with Carson Merrill. But my next question is, are you familiar with a head-butting incident in the recent past between Carson and his now dead wife, Stefanie Merrill?
FRANK: No, I wasn`t.
GRACE: Right. Apparently, he head-butted his wife and said that was an accident, too. Were you familiar -- you say you`re not familiar with that, either?
FRANK: I`m not familiar with that. No, I`m not.
GRACE: Would that change your opinion as to him being so in love with his family? I mean, if somebody head-butted me, I would not take that as a sign of love.
FRANK: No, I wouldn`t, either. I mean, I wouldn`t, either, no. But unfortunately...
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad...
(CROSSTALK)
FRANK: Excuse me, dear?
GRACE: Go ahead, dear. Yes, go ahead.
FRANK: I was going to say, unfortunately, anger`s -- when you`re angry, that`s -- something changes, you know? It just changes things the way things look, you know? And when you get really angry, you know, I don`t -- I wouldn`t believe that he`d pick up a gun and shoot his wife. That I wouldn`t believe. Maybe anger for (ph) fighting, yes. Maybe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: They`re on their way, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s dying! (INAUDIBLE) please hurry!
911 OPERATOR: Are her eyes open?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her eyes are open. Yes, ma`am. Stay with me, baby! Stay with me!
The wound is on the front of her chest, but it`s on her back, too.
911 OPERATOR: Is she still breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma`am! Please help! What can I do? What can I do?
911 OPERATOR: Did she shoot herself, or was it an accident? How did this happen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my gosh, baby girl! Please! Stay with me, baby!
911 OPERATOR: You have a 3-year-old baby in the house?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: I need to know where that gun is. You need to get the gun away from her, and far.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma`am. The gun`s up in the closet. Yes, ma`am.
911 OPERATOR: The gun`s in the closet now? OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am. No, I mean, I was standing in the closet. That`s (INAUDIBLE)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Mommy, while bathing her 3-year-old baby girl, is gunned down in the master bathroom with an AK-47. Tonight, Daddy says it was all a tragic accident.
I want to go straight back out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, what can you tell me? Give me the timeline leading up to the shooting.
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, this is, like I said, morning. Their 6- year-old son goes off to school. The 3-year-old daughter is being bathed, it`s not clear by which parent. We do know that all three of them, though, are in the bathroom when the shooting occurred. Mom is there standing when she is shot in the chest shot by her husband, William Merrill. Little girl is still in the bathtub. Even when cops arrive, little girl is still in the bathtub.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of Chicago, Karen Conti, defense attorney, Darryl Cohen, defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
Darryl Cohen, he says in his own words -- this is not something the police told him, that -- said that he said -- we hear him saying he leaves the bathroom, goes to the closet and gets out an AK-47?
Darryl, you have daughters. Did you ever show off your AK-47 and have your wife commenting on how bright the laser lock is on it -- you know, the little red thing that appears right here, that -- while your child is in the bathtub in the same room?
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, he certainly is not going to get the Einstein award. Having said that, yes, he is guilty as he can possibly be of stupidity, of ignorance, never (ph) having a gun.
And maybe this will tell some families, keep the guns -- if you have them in your house, keep them away from the kids. Keep them away from the spouses. That`s all I can tell you at this point.
GRACE: OK. So all you`re learning from this, Darryl Cohen, is to keep your gun in the closet. All right. Good to know.
Karen Conti, how about premeditation? Premeditation can be formed in an instant. And in the time it takes him to go to the closet, get the gun, come back to the bathroom, that is time to form premeditation under the law, Karen.
KAREN CONTI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Who is going to prove that, Nancy? Who`s going to say he premeditated this crime? No one was there who`s going to talk. And those tapes -- those tapes are the most relevant thing.
GRACE: Oh, you mean the one where he tries to cry, Karen?
CONTI: He was very distraught, and I think if we have 12 jurors listening to that...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... regrettable, especially when a 3-year-old child was in the scene, the suspicious activity.
He took it out of a box. He had a laser beam to it. He pointed it toward her, and it went off and killed her.
No matter which way the investigation goes, it`s a tragic event.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Mommy ends up dead on the bathroom floor with a single gunshot wound from an AK-47.
To Steve Kardian, firearms expert. You have an AK-47. Explain the trigger mechanism, Steve.
STEVE KARDIAN, FMR. POLICE DETECTIVE, FIREARMS EXPERT: Well, first of all, this is an AK-47. I just want to show that the gun is safe. The magazine is empty. The magazine would be inserted into the gun. The gun would have to be chambered like so, and the gun is now ready to be fired.
GRACE: And as I was asking about the trigger mechanism, Steve Kardian, when you pull the trigger, how many shots are fired if you hold the trigger down?
KARDIAN: One shot would be fired out of this gun, Nancy. And it doesn`t go off by itself. there would have to be a sufficient application of pressure to the trigger to have the video fired from this gun.
GRACE: What does "A" in AK stand for?
KARDIAN: Assault rifle.
GRACE: Automatic?
KARDIAN: Automatic. It`s...
GRACE: Assault? OK, it stands for assault rifle. Typically, Steve Kardian, where would an assault rifle be used?
KARDIAN: By the infantry, out on the field, on a battle of war.
GRACE: Darryl Cohen, I did not hear him mention the bathroom at bath time for the toddler! And your only advice is to keep the gun in the closet. Repeat.
COHEN: No. No, Nancy. My advice is that never should he have ever done that. But my other advice is to everybody else listening, keep the guns away from kids. You bet.
GRACE: OK, great, great, great. That`s what you`ve got to say, gun safety.
Pat Brown, weigh in.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: OK. I`m going to go with you on premeditated in a second. He had bad behavior. He had (INAUDIBLE) record. He has a domestic abuse record. He has a firearms violation record. I think he`s got bad behavior. I think this was a domestic abuse situation.
Now, look at this. He said, first of all, he`s a firearms guy, right? The first rule of firearms is you never point a weapon at anything you don`t want to kill. That`s a basic rule. He knows it.
So he pointed it at her, and then he pulled the trigger on a gun he said had no ammunition. Who put the ammunition in it? The 6-year-old, the 3-year-old, his wife? Ridiculous! He put the ammunition in it.
GRACE: And Ellie Jostad, Pat Brown mentioned a prior domestic, the head-butting incident. What happened?
JOSTAD: Right. That`s right. Stefanie alleged that her husband actually head-butted her, threw her on the bed in front of their child, who was just 16 months old at the time. However, she later asked the charges be dropped.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was holding the gun and just looking at it and talking to her about it. She was talking about the laser sight on it, about it being bright.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) pointed it toward her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I pulled the trigger. It`s never loaded. Oh, my God!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need emergency medical services. Please, hurry up.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife`s been shot.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m at --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Did she shoot herself or was it an accident?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma`am. It was an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Is it accident?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Where is she bleeding?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s bleeding out of her chest and her back. Please hurry.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. We`re going to get them -- we`ll get them there. Can you go ahead and tell me if she is breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she is. But sort of but not really. She`s falling out of consciousness. Please hurry.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. All right. They`re going to go out and bring somebody out. I just need you to answer some questions for me. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: How did this happen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was holding one of the guns and just looking at it and talking to her about it. She was talking about the laser light on it about being bright. And I pulled the trigger. It`s never loaded. Oh, my god. Oh, my god. Please hurry.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. OK. All right. They`re on their way. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s going to die. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. OK. Just go ahead -- get a --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We are live and taking your calls. In Florida, a young mom bathing her 3-year-old is found dead on the floor. Gunshot wound to the chest from an assault weapon. An AK-47. Daddy says it was an accident. When the cops get back in, they find the little 3-year-old girl still sitting in the bathtub.
To Dr. Caryn Stark, what effect is this going to have on a 3-year-old child who sees mommy gunned down by daddy, an accident, and still just sitting there in the tub after they take mommy`s body out on a stretcher?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: An accident, Nancy? He accidentally pulled the trigger? This is going to traumatize her. I`m not sure how the effects will emerge but in her brain she is making an imprint of this incident. You can be sure of it because that`s how trauma works. She doesn`t even have to be verbal in order to be taking this in and being traumatized by this situation. Somebody needs to help her. Poor little girl.
GRACE: To Robyn Walensky, where is the little girl and the 6-year-old tonight?
ROBYN WALENSKY, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Yes. I believe, Nancy, that they are with the grandparents at this point. And I just wanted to point out, Nancy, that, you know, as an investigative journalist, the number one question I had when I heard about this was, you know, was there a history of violence? Was this really just an accident and it went off, but there`s such a long history here of domestic violence. He was arrested. She had called the cops on him.
And it`s very sad. She had dropped the charges, Nancy. And you know this. Thousands of women all over this country every day drop the charges because they don`t want the guy, the husband who they love to get in trouble and that`s what happened here. There was a history of this. She had a scratch over her eye. He threw her down on the bed and it`s a really unfortunate situation.
GRACE: Also joining us today, Dr. John Salinas.
Dr. Salinas, thank you for being with us. The paramedics actually got there in about seven minutes. Based on this type of wound, was there any chance they could have resuscitated her?
DR. JOHN SALINAS, M.D., PHYSICIAN: Well, within seven minutes, you know, there`s a good chance that the substantial bleeding, this weapon -- it`s hard to say if it was fired from a very close range but it appears, you know, a small bathroom, that would makes sense, big weapon inside a small bathroom.
You have five liters of blood so it doesn`t take long to be unconscious. All you have to do is lose 10 to 30 percent and then you start showing symptoms so I suspect that, you know, there was a good chance that, you know, she bled substantially at that point.
GRACE: Very quickly. Darryl Cohen, Karen Conti, both defense attorneys, Chicago, Atlanta.
To you, Karen Conti, in response to what Dr. John Salinas said, you can tell absolutely if this was close range based on gunshot residue on the mom`s clothing. If there was gunshot residue around the blast, the entrance wound, we know he was within 36 inches of the body.
Now what`s going to be interesting, Karen Conti, is if I find out that there is gunshot residue on her hand. In order words, did she hold her hands up just before the blast? What would that tell you, Karen Conti?
KAREN CONTI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that would tell anybody that she was acting in self-defense but the same evidence is going to be relevant whether this was an accident or an intentional crime because at a short range it is what it is. We`re going to have to go to motive here, Nancy, if we`re going to prove anything more than this was an accident.
GRACE: Really, Darryl Cohen? Really? Did you not just hear Ellie Jostad and Pat Brown talk about the head butting incident where he butts his wife in the head?
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, of course I heard that. We all heard that.
GRACE: OK.
COHEN: What is it -- what are we talking about here? If it`s close range, we`re talking about something entirely different from his story of showing the laser, it was bright. And if that`s the case, if that`s the incident, then we may very well have accidental stupidity.
GRACE: OK. Pierre Tristan is with us. Flaglerlive.com.
Pierre, can you tell me is it true that daddy change his story? Did he originally say he was cleaning the gun?
PIERRE TRISTAN, EDITOR AND REPORTER, FLAGLERLIVE.COM: We have not heard that officially, no. There`s a lot of rumors lying about because it`s a small community. People talk and, you know, people are saying various things. But no, we don`t yet know that he changed his story.
GRACE: Ellie, are you familiar with that?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right, Nancy --
GRACE: Did he originally tell anyone he was cleaning the gun?
JOSTAD: Right. There were initial reports that he was either inspecting the gun or he was cleaning the gun when it went off, then later he says that it was this showing her the gun. It was the laser scope he was showing her.
GRACE: OK. OK. Ellie, please, please. I`ve heard enough.
Darryl Cohen and Karen Conti, I just want to see your faces, please. Put them up, please. I don`t see them. Still waiting. There they are. Cleaning the gun. Let me just let that soak in for a moment. Cleaning the gun, Karen Conti. Is there an older story in the book other than I thought she was 18? Is there another older story than "I was cleaning my gun"? And it just went off.
CONTI: This guy had 20 guns. He would have to have opened the chamber to see if it was loaded. He probably forgot if it was loaded. This is a guy who`s a fanatic. Guns are dangerous. They go off all the time. That`s not beyond reasonable doubt intent.
GRACE: They go off all the time. Is that true, Darryl Cohen?
CONTI: They sure do. They do.
GRACE: Do they go off all the time?
COHEN: No, actually they don`t go off unless somebody`s finger is on there.
GRACE: No, they don`t.
COHEN: I don`t buy the gun being cleaned. I do buy the fact it was an accident. He was probably in shock.
GRACE: And he changed his story.
COHEN: He didn`t know what to day. He -- sure he did. He`s scared to death. He doesn`t know what to say. He`s freaked out. He knows he`s a convicted felon.
GRACE: OK, Steve Kardian, what did you tell me was the trigger pull on an AK-47? How many pounds of resistance does it take for -- to shoot an AK?
STEVE KARDIAN, FMR. POLICE DETECTIVE, SELF-DEFENSE EXPERT, LEAD INSTRUCTOR AT DEFEND UNIVERSITY: It`s very light. It is about six to eight pounds, Nancy.
GRACE: Stephanie Merrill, just 30 years old, mom of two, the mother of a 3-year-old girl, a 6-year-old boy, dead tonight after an alleged accidental shooting with an AK-47.
When we come back, a little girl missing from a local Starbucks. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Can you go outside? Can you go outside?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to leave my wife.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: You don`t want -- he doesn`t want to leave his wife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please. There`s a black truck in the driveway. Oh my god.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news. It`s been more than a week since 2- year-old Ava Enlow`s mom saw her at a local Starbucks.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Tina says was supposed to return Ava on Wednesday. But he never showed.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But when mom goes to see her little girl, she is gone. The house where the toddler should have been has been partially emptied and there`s no sign of the little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Neighbors say they saw Brent packing up and leaving his home the weekend before Ava was supposed to be back with her mom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your heart is pounding incredibly fast and then, you know, you`re thinking, OK, what`s going on? Why is -- why is there no answer at the door?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police were called out twice to try to get Ava back but no one was home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say they have no leads to Ava`s whereabouts and are concerned for little Ava`s safety.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Where is 2-year-old Ava? Last seen at a local Starbucks.
To Gregg Paul, KFYI. Gregg, what can you tell us?
GREGG PAUL, REPORTER, 550 KFYI RADIO: Well, Nancy, right now police are calling this a parental abduction case. Two-year-old Ava of course dropped off with her father, 31-year-old Brent Anderson, by Ava`s mother at that north Phoenix Starbucks. The mother, Athena Manuma, has said nothing was out of the ordinary when she was dropping Ava off, but when she went to pick Ava up, the father was a no-show so she went over to Brent Anderson`s house only to find that he no longer lives there and as you just heard those neighbors have said he was moving furniture out of that house so mom called police.
Now both sides of the family are worried because Brent Anderson recently lost his job. He`s having financial difficulties and, of course, his home is foreclosed on and the pair have both been classified as missing persons for nearly a week.
GRACE: Police saying extreme danger. That this little girl is in extreme danger. And we all pray to God this is not another tot mom situation.
To Alexis Weed, Alexis, when the mom goes to the dad`s house, what does she find?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: She finds that he`s moved out of the house, Nancy, and some neighbors told a local ABC station there that he was moving furniture out of the house as early as that same Saturday when the mother dropped Ava off with the dad.
GRACE: So she gets there and there`s some furniture left, he`s partially moved out. That says to me he didn`t even wait to take all of his stuff. He wanted to get away with the little girl?
WEED: Right. Partially furnished, we`re hearing. Also the paternal grandmother goes to the home, she finds the same thing, Nancy, that this home has some furniture there, some removed.
GRACE: To Clark Goldband, what more do we know at this hour, Clark?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, what`s especially concerning is that the dad Brent Anderson apparently, according to reports, had quit his job, a longtime job he had at a local fries grocery store there for over 15 years. Fries employees saying there at the local media that he was a dependable employee and this is unlike him. All of a sudden about six weeks ago, Nancy, he allegedly just stopped showing up to work.
GRACE: OK. I don`t understand, Clark Goldband. What was the 3-year-old girl doing at a Starbucks?
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, she was just about 2 years old and there`s going to be a rendezvous --
GRACE: Excuse me. Thank you.
GOLDBAND: Between the girl`s mom and the girl`s dad. Now, dad was supposed to have her for about five days and mom said when she dropped her off at that Starbucks location everything seemed normal. Nothing out of the ordinary. However, just a few days later, when she goes back to pick her up, she doesn`t see them. She`s at the dad`s house. She knocks and she said she felt something immediately wrong not seeing them and that`s when she called police.
GRACE: Alexis Weed, had the mom stayed in touch with them by phone? I mean, I`ve been away from the twins now for a couple of hours, I`ve already called home twice. So has she been in touch with them over these five days?
WEED: As far as we know, Nancy, the last time that the mom heard from her little girl was that same day that she dropped her off on Saturday.
GRACE: So for all I know, he`s got a five-day head start, Alexis?
WEED: Right. That`s right.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a special guest. This is the mother of Brent Anderson, 31-year-old Brent Anderson. We believe he`s got baby Ava. Melinda Barros is with us.
Miss Barros, thank you for being with us. Where is your son and Ava?
MELINDA BARROS, GRANDMA OF ABDUCTED TOT: I have no clue.
GRACE: Tell me what you know regarding his disappearance. Why did he quit his job? Why was he in financial trouble. If he was in financial trouble, why would he quit his job?
BARROS: First of all, I don`t know that he was in any financial trouble. That`s an assumption on other people`s part. He quit his job I found out after the fact that he was already gone. Why would he quit his job? He was tired of dealing with all of the twisted lies and things that the family kept putting forth for him, and wouldn`t allow for him to see Ava. It goes very deep and it goes three years long.
Walk side by side with my son going through this whole court case and I feel bad for him that he`s had to deal with people who are manipulative and can`t speak the truth. And I don`t -- I tried working with him and telling him that he just has to keep going and keep working with it and hopefully that the truth some day will come out and he`ll get what he`s justified to have. Being a father.
GRACE: With me, Melinda Barros, this is the mother of Brent Anderson who we believe has baby Ava.
Miss Barros, again, thank you for being with us. You started off by saying that he quit his job because he was tired of dealing with lies by the family. How did lies by the family affecting custody of baby Ava make him quit his job? What did that have to do with his job?
BARROS: OK. First of all, Brent -- his whole life is Ava. That`s all he`s ever wanted to do is take care of her. Mom has wanted to alienate Brent out of his life through all of the different lies and things that she has done. And not allowed Brent to see Ava by manipulation of her time at work when she told the judge that she was going to keep her hours the way that they were and Brent gave up one of his days for her so that she was able to have Ava on her day off so that she could have quality time. My son was gracious enough to do that for her.
GRACE: OK. I still don`t understand how all of this made him quit his job. If you would address that.
BARROS: He quit his job, I would -- it would be my assumption that he quit his job because he was not getting what he needed to get out of it. He had tried working with it. And it was not working for him and --
GRACE: OK. Well, that has nothing to do with alleged lies by the family. That has nothing to do with alleged lies by the family --
BARROS: Oh, but it does. But it does.
GRACE: OK. Fine. I`ve asked you three times to explain how and I`m not hearing it but I do hear you`re saying that the mom was keeping him from seeing baby Ava. But didn`t he have her for five straight days?
BARROS: It doesn`t matter. Yes, he had her for five straight days. He does have that but the interim, there`s times when he`s supposed to have her when she is working and she would manipulate her time so that he wouldn`t get her in the time -- in the time that she was working. She would say she was only working for three hours and then he wouldn`t -- she wouldn`t bring her over to Brent.
GRACE: OK. So what I`m hearing you say is that you believe Ava`s momma manipulated the truth of her work hours to keep your son from seeing baby Ava. That`s what I`m hearing.
BARROS: Absolutely.
GRACE: Now have you been in touch with him since he went on the run with baby Ava?
BARROS: Negative. I have not.
GRACE: Not anything? Not one word? Not an e-mail, not a text, not a phone call, nothing?
BARROS: Nothing.
GRACE: Has he remarried?
BARROS: He`s married for the first time, yes.
GRACE: And have you tried to contact either your son or the wife?
BARROS: There is nothing to contact him on. He doesn`t have a phone. There`s no way of contacting him. I have no way of contacting him whatsoever.
GRACE: Oh, so neither one of them have a cell phone?
BARROS: Neither one of them have a phone.
GRACE: OK. All right.
Back to Alexis Weed, our producer on the story. What more can you tell me, Alexis? Why are cops saying that this baby is in extreme danger?
WEED: Nancy, they`re saying that she`s in extreme danger because it`s so very much out of the ordinary for this father to just take off. As you heard Clark Goldband say this guy has been working for the same company for 16 years. He`s been said to be a loyal employee. A good father, but Nancy, I will say that the mother did file for a protective order against the father at one time, claiming that he mistakenly said that he was the father of Ayla, which we know to be not true at this point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Ava Enlow`s mother says her and the girls` father didn`t speak much. Until now, she said, they had joint custody and kept a strict schedule, picking up and dropping off Ava at a certain time and a certain place. Friends of Brent say he`s a loving day and everyone just wants to see Ava back home safely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Where is 2-year-old baby Ava? Police say she`s in extreme danger. Alexis, I couldn`t understand what you were saying. You were saying that Ava`s mother once filed a TRO against the bio dad, Brent Anderson, where she claimed he was harassing her during her pregnancy. They were not married. So I doubt, though, they were living together is my understanding. What do you mean harassing her? What was the allegation?
WEED: Right, Nancy. The mom said in this request for the restraining order that he was harassing her, the biological dad was harassing her by e- mail, by showing up at her workplace. She even asked for a transfer to go to another place of unemployment. But we now know through DNA tests that the father requested that he is, in fact, Ava`s dad.
GRACE: To Pat Brown, criminal profiler. Pat Brown, when you come home and you find the house is cleaned out of furniture and the baby is gone, the father has quit a job of many, many years, what does that say to you as a profiler?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": Well, that`s a pretty scary situation. We see a lot of emotional problems, I think, on this man`s part. But this is often the scenario we see when a man loses his job and house going into foreclosure, that he kills himself and his child. So is this child alive or isn`t this child alive?
GRACE: Caryn Stark, psychologist, weigh in.
STARK: Very dangerous, Nancy. This guy is part of a sinking ship. He quit his job. I heard that it`s foreclosure on his house. If he really cares about his baby, the question is why in the world would he be hurting her this way, and taking this baby away from the mother, that`s not a good dad, that`s a bad dad.
GRACE: To Melinda Barros, mother of Brent Anderson, you mentioned you didn`t know anything about financial troubles. His home is in foreclosure, Miss Barros.
BARROS: No, it is not. That is a false statement. It is not in foreclosure. It is two months behind. That is it.
GRACE: Oh, OK. OK, I`m glad to know it`s not in foreclosure. If he doesn`t have financial problems, why is he two months behind in the house note?
BARROS: My son has never been -- why is he behind? Because he has spent $30,000 in attorney fees trying to get to be able to have custody of his daughter and be able to be a dad that he needs to be to her.
GRACE: Tonight, Melinda Barros is being the voice of her son Brent Anderson. Police on the lookout for Brent Anderson, and this little girl, baby Ava.
Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Sean Cutsforth, 22, Radford, Virginia, killed Afghanistan. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation, loved the outdoors, construction, a memorial scholarship and baseball field named in his honor. Leaves behind parents Vicky and Robert, sisters Casey and Kayla, brother Ryan. Widow Ashley, son Sean, Jr. he never met.
Shawn Cutsforth, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
