Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Dr. Drew and Anderson: News Impacting You; Miramonte Scandal: Alleged Victim Speaks Out
Aired February 28, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.
Ohio deadly school shooting. There were lots of warning signs. So why wasn`t something done? Can we prevent this in the future?
And we`re hearing now from an alleged victim of L.A.`s teacher child sex abuse nightmare.
Plus, Anderson Cooper as you`ve never seen him before. The CNN anchor is here with his take on some of the toughest stories in the news and we compare notes on going gray and we weren`t separated at birth and we`re not the same guy.
So let`s get started.
Well, I`m hearing we`re about to put an end to some - what do you call them, myths or urban legends - urban legends, that the gentleman sitting next to me and I are the same person, but in fact, that`s no truth to that whatsoever.
Anderson Cooper from "AC 360" joins me here tonight. There`s a lot of news we can talk about. But, you know, I just want to chat with you actually finally. So you`re -
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "AC 360": I just want to reach out and make sure you`re real. You are.
PINSKY: I am. I like doing this, too. This is my favorite thing. Can you feel me?
COOPER: All right.
PINSKY: So you`re the only other guy I know that had to straddle having a show on this CNN and having a daytime project.
COOPER: Yes.
PINSKY: How has that been for you?
COOPER: It`s been fun actually. You know, I wanted to do a daytime show to kind of learn more every day and bring more variety into my life.
PINSKY: It`s different, though, right?
COOPER: It`s different, yes. It`s fun. I mean, it`s stories that might not make an evening newscast but that can really resonate in people`s lives and can touch people`s lives in a really cool way.
I mean, just today on the show, we gave a car to a family in need, to a guy who has been helping his wife with MS and he lost his job. You know, you can do stuff.
PINSKY: You can do stuff and you can make a difference, which is you have a lot of resources. We did some of that, too.
But for you personally, it must be - I mean, some of the stuff that people got excited about, when you brought your mom on the show.
COOPER: Yes.
PINSKY: That`s got to be weird.
COOPER: It`s nice. I mean, it`s nice to kind of show a more personal side - side to you. And, you know, and in news I have often been accused of focusing on human stories and, you know, human beings as opposed to kind of geopolitical significance on things. I don`t think that`s bad. I actually - I think -
PINSKY: That`s a compliment, right?
COOPER: Yes. I mean, for me it is.
PINSKY: Although I did a human interest story that you put on your "Ridiculist" once. You put me on your "Ridiculist," Anderson.
COOPER: You know, I didn`t put you on. I put - it was the notion that anybody could believe that Courtney Stodden`s breasts were not real because she told us several times in a YouTube video -
PINSKY: But it seems - see how much my staff here loves this? They love this.
COOPER: Her breasts were real and I never doubted her. So I put the doubters on the "Ridiculist."
PINSKY: Got it. Fair enough. And to be fair -
COOPER: I appreciated you confirming.
PINSKY: Thank you. To be fair, she asked (INAUDIBLE).
COOPER: But, you know?
PINSKY: But I`m sure she did. And I was interested in the two of them, the May-December thing. He`s -
COOPER: Oh, I`m obsessed with them both. I mean, Doug Hutchison and Courtney Stodden. The fact that I even know their names, that we know their names is a sign of the decline of civilization.
PINSKY: It`s a sign. And the mom came with them. The mom -
COOPER: Oh, really?
PINSKY: -- and she signed off on it wholeheartedly. She thought that he`s a great guy. And she`s like 17. I - for me, whatever. We`ll see where it goes, you know?
COOPER: We`ll see where it goes. See where that would end up.
PINSKY: But speaking of you dealing with the human interest stories, it feels like you`re putting more of yourself on TV these days. I love you - you and Kathy on New Year`s Eve.
COOPER: Yes, Kathy - you know, working with Kathy Griffin was fun. And it was fun having my mom on the show.
PINSKY: But Kathy is dangerous, though.
COOPER: She`s always -
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: She took her clothes off this year.
COOPER: She takes her clothes off all the time. In fact, she came to my house in Long Island.
PINSKY: And she took her clothes off.
COOPER: She went out there the night before - first of all, she was disappointed that my house wasn`t like out of Downtown Abbey. She expected some grand thing, like it`s a small thing. There`s no staff or anything. So she was very disappointed.
And I was on the news that night, you know, doing the broadcast and she was texting me naked photos of herself like sprawled out on my couch.
PINSKY: Anderson, that is called sexting. That is sexting. And Kathy Griffin sexted you. Do you have your phone? All I want to ask is, do you have your phone with you?
COOPER: I don`t have - I deleted the pictures. But I literally was - like all I can think about is like do I need a wet or dry vac to clean this up, you know? What?
PINSKY: I`m just saying. All right.
Let`s go to - let`s go on to some stories that are in the news. Enough of the fun. There`s a lot - unless you would like to keep going on the Kathy Griffin path.
COOPER: No.
PINSKY: I`ve got some stories I could share with you. But, in fact, I`m dying to be up there on the podium with you some New Year`s Eve.
COOPER: (INAUDIBLE).
PINSKY: I have known Kathy for literally 15 years. And I would love to just to behold - and it`s not just because she`s going to be there in her - in her bathing suit or whatever she wore - was that lingerie?
COOPER: You know, she stripped down to her lingerie.
PINSKY: Lingerie.
COOPER: Yes, yes. But I did have - the naked photos were, I mean, really more than you`ve ever wanted to see (ph) of Kathy Griffin.
PINSKY: Are you sure you don`t still have them?
COOPER: I may have put them in some sort of folder to be used later.
PINSKY: We`ll talk afterwards. In fact - do you understand - do you understand what you could do with that with Kathy now?
COOPER: I have no idea what I can do with Kathy.
PINSKY: I`ll tell you after the show. But -
COOPER: Like a foreign land to do that (ph).
PINSKY: OK. Let`s go on. Oh, my goodness. Oh, hell with the news. Let`s just talk about - what else do you want to talk about?
COOPER: This is just practice, right?
PINSKY: This is not for air. This is not for air. Don`t worry.
COOPER: OK.
PINSKY: Speaking of pictures, speaking of pictures, the "National Enquirer" put an awful - well, what I considered to be an awful, intrusive photograph of Whitney Houston on the front page. And my reaction to this was I don`t blame the guy who took the picture, I don`t like the guy that took the picture. I don`t blame the "National Enquirer." I blame us for consuming this crap.
COOPER: Well, right. I mean, if there wasn`t a market for it, this stuff, they wouldn`t pay for it.
PINSKY: How do we - how do we adjust our -
COOPER: It`s the same thing to what happened with Princess Diana, where people were saying, you know, it`s the magazine`s, the reporters` fault. And, you know, I remember covering the funeral and people coming up to any reporter, not that they knew who I was or anything, but just coming up and saying like you did this to her.
You know, and in fact it`s people who were buying these magazines who are constant consumers of, you know, endless rumor and innuendo about people that - that make it possible.
PINSKY: It`s their fault. And let`s - but let`s not - but let`s not take ourselves out of that population. We`re a person in the public.
COOPER: Yes.
PINSKY: We may have a public persona, but we have a private persona where we consume crap like this.
COOPER: Yes. Yes, yes.
PINSKY: The truth, I watch "Jersey Shore."
COOPER: I watch cheesy reality TV as well.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOPER: And, yes, I mean it`s - I think it is - and I`m sure there has been gossip as long as there have been human beings. I`m sure that`s interesting.
PINSKY: Well, that`s interesting. In fact, gossip I believe used to be a way of transmitting cultural information. It`s just we`ve gotten - I think my own belief is we`ve gotten this sort of almost human sacrificial impulse into our gossip. We elevate people and like to tear them down.
COOPER: Well, that - there`s no doubt about that. There`s also a cruelty which I think exists because of the Internet and the anonymity that the Internet gives. So the fact that all these websites have common sections where you don`t actually put your name on, it`s you just put whatever your online moniker is, and then you - it allows people to just say all sorts of things.
PINSKY: Do you get horrible stuff like on Twitter? I get horrible stuff.
COOPER: Oh, of course. Yes, yes. Everybody`s got. But what`s interesting is when you actually find these people and confront them from time to time, they completely collapse. It`s really - it`s really interesting. You know, they don`t have the guts in real life to do this. It`s only in the safety of their own little room in their pajamas.
PINSKY: There`s that the anonymity, but also that we can be like a cartoon character that they throw darts at.
COOPER: Oh, right. It`s not real.
PINSKY: Right.
COOPER: It`s not real. We`re not real. We`re not real people.
PINSKY: But that`s part of the problem of how we consume media. And that`s why pictures like that end up.
I want to bring you up to another story. This is here in Los Angeles. This has been a big one. A 42-year-old Spanish teacher was arrested on suspicion of having sex with two underage students. This is the seventh arrest of a Los Angeles teacher in just three weeks. Have you been up on this story?
COOPER: I have been and, I mean, obviously it comes on the heels of what happened in the Miramonte School.
PINSKY: And we`re like there we`re looking at the teacher (INAUDIBLE) is alleged to have been.
And my - my question for you is this. Because here, this is a very Los Angeles kind of story, I mean, immigrants are involved in this, under - people who were like helpless and afraid to come forward because of immigration issues. I mean this is something that seems unique to Los Angeles. Is teachers behaving like this unique to Los Angeles?
COOPER: Not at all. I mean, you see this across the country. There was just a case in fact in New York. There have been several cases. I`ve done documentaries. I spent time with pedophiles, and even a female pedophile which is very rare to find and pedophiles as well and people -
PINSKY: Well, in fact, your - your show today I think was inside the mind of a pedophile.
COOPER: Well, we invited two - two sex offenders, and they`re the most manipulative people I`ve ever met in general, and clearly target people who are vulnerable, kids who are vulnerable, whether that`s, you know, in a one parent household or kids whose families are broken up, or kids on - you know, from an immigrant community that may not have access to law enforcement or fearful of going to law enforcement.
PINSKY: Fearful and that`s the thing is that they - and they trust teachers.
COOPER: But I also think the law adjudicates women differently than it does men. I think with women, it`s - well, they had a relationship, whereas with a guy, it`s, you know, understandably, it`s molestation. I think with women, we need to see it just as the same.
PINSKY: It`s the same. It is again - it has the same impact on the kids that are perpetrated against. The victims we look at differently, too.
I`ve got to take a break. And I like to say, first of all, Kathy Griffin, you`re welcome in her to substantiate whether or not what Anderson observed was in fact the case.
And up next, the medical mystery in Le Roy, New York. We`re going to get back to that and we`re sort of getting into a sense of what`s happening there. I`m going to get Anderson`s take on this when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Welcome back. I`m delighted to be in here with Anderson Cooper, and we`re talking about some of the stories that are in the news.
We`re going to the Upstate New York story where more than a dozen people, most of them teenage girls suddenly developed uncontrollable twitching and verbal tics. Here is what it looked like a month ago on this program. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERA SANCHEZ, SUFFERS FROM TICS: It`s hard not being able to do what you love, even going to school. I love going to school. I think it`s even harder knowing that I don`t know what`s going on. Like I`d like to be able to answer people if they ask me what`s happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: One on the left is Daphne.
All right, now, Anderson, last week I had some physicians on who took a group of these girls and tested them for something called PANDAS -
COOPER: Right.
PINSKY: -- which is this autoimmune, meaning your immune system attacks your body after certain infections. And he found strong evidence in all the girls and then treated them and now they`re all better.
Do you think it is that or do you think it is conversion still?
COOPER: Well, from what I understand, too, I just heard news reports that a number of the girls who are being treated by doctors who believe it is conversion disorder, some form of mass hysteria, that they are seeing now that the girls have sort of - that they`ve more accepted the diagnosis, which initially they were very resistant to. They, too, have started to get better.
PINSKY: Right.
COOPER: I -
PINSKY: And by the way this antibiotic and steroids and whatnot could be a placebo that could accelerate the recovery.
COOPER: Yes. I mean my thought all along was some sort of mass hysteria, which I don`t - I`m not really just kind of learned about it from the doctors, but I just find fascinating. Actually, my grandmother had hysterical blindness before I was born.
PINSKY: No kidding.
COOPER: Yes, I didn`t know that.
PINSKY: Did you just find out about that?
COOPER: My mom - my mom had told me years ago about it.
PINSKY: It`s so - I mean, that`s so old school.
COOPER: I know, yes.
PINSKY: That`s really interesting.
COOPER: It was back in probably the `40s or `50s.
PINSKY: That`s fascinating.
COOPER: But so I do think, you know, I think there`s so much about the mind that we don`t understand. And it was interesting in talking to the teenage girls that I talked to, they were very resistant and I think offended by the idea that this could be some sort of not a biological condition.
PINSKY: Psychosomatic condition.
COOPER: A psychosomatic condition, but I do think the fact that it was all girls largely, I think there was one or two guys involved in this, and I don`t think there really was any environmental proof. I thought there was sort of environmental belief that, well, there was a train derailment from 30 years ago, that seemed very suspicious to me that all of a sudden it would pop up.
PINSKY: But I like the fact through the way we`ve covered it and maybe clean up an environment that might have needed a little cleaning. I mean, I just - I agree. It`s starting to look - but if it was - we`ll never know.
COOPER: Right.
PINSKY: The fact is we`ll never, never know for sure.
COOPER: Well, it`s great news that they`re getting better.
PINSKY: Yes. So this interests you. What else interests you these days? I`m interested in you. I mean do you read certain kinds of material? You read certain.? I read biographies. I`ve consumed -
COOPER: Do you, really?
PINSKY: That`s what I`m into.
COOPER: You know, I don`t have that much time for reading as I used to. Every now and then I find a book that I love and I just read a book called "The Art of Fielding," which was a novel. So, I mean, I sort of - I don`t know - I go in dribs and drabs. But I`ve stopped actually watching reality TV, I will say. I`ve actually now -
PINSKY: Withdrawal symptoms?
COOPER: (INAUDIBLE). I switched now to like hour dramas and -
PINSKY: Like which ones?
COOPER: Like "The Killing," "Walking Dead."
PINSKY: "Boardwalk Empire," you like that?
COOPER: I liked "Boardwalk Empire," yes, it was a little dull first season.
PINSKY: "Mad Men"?
COOPER: "Mad Men." I loved "Mad Men." "Downtown Abbey."
PINSKY: I heard that`s great. I haven`t seen that.
COOPER: It`s really good. "Sherlock," it`s another show on Masterpiece Theater.
So I like sort of hour-long dramas. I`m sure it will come around, I`ll be sucked back into the "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills."
PINSKY: Is this - is this where you imagined your life at this point in your career?
COOPER: I never really -
PINSKY: No blueprint?
COOPER: I never - I never had like a five- or ten-year plan. I mean, I started literally I couldn`t get a job out of college as a reporter. So I made a fake press pass. I borrowed - a friend of mine made a fake press pass for me and I borrowed a camera and I started going to wars.
PINSKY: I know that.
COOPER: And so, for me, the interest wasn`t being on TV, it was going to these places and seeing these things, I mean, learning things about myself and about other people and then the fact that I could tell stories enabled me to continue to do it.
And it`s - I have no actual skill, there`s nothing else I could do, but it`s the greatest thing I could possibly imagine.
PINSKY: Where did you go to college?
COOPER: I went to Yale.
PINSKY: You went to Yale. And do you still keep in touch with people from college?
COOPER: Not really. I mean, I`m, you know, I`m kind of a recluse so I wasn`t in touch with - I was in a crew (ph) team. I was - you know, I`m in touch with some of the people from my team, but I`m not - yes, I`m not very like social. So I`m sort of reclusive.
PINSKY: Is that still the case? You don`t -
COOPER: Yes. It`s always been the case. I`ve been - I mean usually as a kid I had sort of a stutter and those speech problems. And I`m very, very shy. So, you know, going to like a party is difficult for me.
PINSKY: I understand that. I think a lot of people in media that have to be in front of a lot of people, some of it is compensation for shyness.
COOPER: I think that`s true. And also there`s a certain, you know, when you`re working -
PINSKY: You have a purpose, yes.
COOPER: Right. You have a purpose and you`re expending a lot of energy to project. So when you`re in your down time, you just kind of want to collapse and be quiet. And, you know, I`m so sick of myself, the last thing I want to do is like hear myself talk.
PINSKY: Right. I totally get that. Not that I`m sick of you, but I get sick of my own self, too.
COOPER: Did you go gray early?
PINSKY: I went gray when the first year of my triplets life. That`s - I have triplets.
COOPER: Oh, really?
PINSKY: And so, yes, and I started -
COOPER: They turned you gray.
PINSKY: They turned me gray. Raising triplets is really a difficult thing to do.
COOPER: I can`t imagine.
PINSKY: And thank God I have a great wife, and we - our relationship weathered it, many don`t. Multiple marriages have a high probability of not making it.
COOPER: Yes.
PINSKY: We did and we`re great and love it.
COOPER: How old are the -
PINSKY: They`re in college now.
COOPER: They`re in college?
PINSKY: Yes. One of them is at Vanderbilt Institution.
COOPER: Is that really? In Nashville?
PINSKY: Yes.
COOPER: Never been there.
PINSKY: You`ve never been there?
COOPER: No.
PINSKY: The Vanderbilt is your family heritage.
COOPER: It is, yes. But honestly, it has no reality in my life. Like my mom wasn`t really close to that side of the family growing up. She had been taken away from her mother in a horrible custody battle in the early `30s, so she`d really was kind of - and my dad`s family very poor in Mississippi and I feel much more connected to like the Cooper side. I`m very glad that`s my last name and not that other name, because it doesn`t come with this thing kind of baggage and preconceived notions.
PINSKY: So I didn`t realize the poor Mississippi family.
COOPER: Yes. In fact we have family units down in - down near Clinton, Mississippi and near Meridian. And I still go down to my grandmother in the general store later on in her life in Meridian, Mississippi. And it`s - yes, my dad was really one of the few kind of got out and left. And I have an uncle in San Diego, but a lot of folks are still down in Mississippi or Georgia, or in the south.
PINSKY: That`s very interesting.
Just as we sort of wrap up here. Are there things going forward as we sort of look at the landscape of our country, the things that really scare you, I mean, obviously get very deep into the prescription med thing and lots of things scare me about what`s going on.
COOPER: I don`t get scared all that easily, and I`m really optimistic. I mean I think, you know, as a country, we have this extraordinary history, we`re such a young country. And, you know, we attack left, we attack right, and yet, you know, the public adjusts, and we continue to move forward.
PINSKY: An optimist.
COOPER: Yes, I am. I`m very optimistic, even though I have seen a lot of terrible things around the world and I`ve seen - you know, I think we`re actually - people are living longer than ever before, people are healthier than ever before. And I think it`s one of the least - I mean, I know lots of politicians say it`s the most dangerous time ever, I just think it is one of the least dangerous times for people in this country.
PINSKY: So they`re saying that just as rhetoric to attract attention?
COOPER: I think people are fear mongering, and, you know, there`s a reason some people want to, you know, fear, because, you know, it keeps people afraid, it keeps people paying attention to what they`re going to say.
PINSKY: Well, Anderson, I do appreciate you being here. It really was fun.
COOPER: It was a lot of fun. Thanks.
PINSKY: And I hope we`ll get you and Kathy together sometime, or at least I want Kathy in here so she can - well, first of all -
COOPER: Yes. You have to wipe down the desk.
PINSKY: I sort of would say the chair particularly. And I`m careful to be sure that she not sext anything to us or less it ends up on the Internet. God only knows. But I do want to know if what Anderson said was truthful or not, so -
COOPER: Oh. Well, yes.
PINSKY: My cameraman is saying, would you please make sure she sexts us? No, I wouldn`t. But thank you, Anderson.
We`ll be right back.
COOPER: Kathy Griffin is in amazing shape. Rock bod.
PINSKY: Well, we find that folder with those pictures, we can share it with all the rest of the country.
So be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Welcome back.
We`re speaking tonight with one of the first male victims to come forward in the Miramonte teacher sex abuse scandal. Now this exclusive interview will play in its entirety tomorrow night. But I wanted to share some of this with you this evening.
Alex, not his real name, is the young victim, he`s now a 9th grader, he`s 14. He says he was abused by elementary school teacher Mark Berndt years ago when he was in his third grade class. Berndt was arrested and charged in January with 23 counts of lewd conduct against children ages 6 to 10.
Here is what this young man Alex has to say about the cookies Berndt allegedly fed to some students.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Was there anything peculiar about these cookies, again, in retrospect?
ALEX, ABUSE VICTIM IN MIRAMONTE SCHOOL: Well, yes. Like in some occasions, like the cookies I tasted like it tasted kind of funky, like they had a weird taste to them.
PINSKY: And now are you concerned that you might have been exposed to some of those terrible allegations, those horrible behaviors?
ALEX: I`m very concerned about it. Hopefully like I wasn`t exposed to it, but we have to see what`s happening.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining me now, CNN Espanol Reporter Jaqueline Hurtado who has been following this story since it broke.
Jacqueline, I want to play you a little more tape before we start talking about this. I want to go to the tape about - with the father, too, (INAUDIBLE), we called him Paul. He also spoke about Berndt and the sense of betrayal. This is what`s interesting.
Because you have educated me that the teacher is somebody that really put a lot of trust in, right?
JACQUELINE HURTADO, CORRESPONDENT, CNN ESPANOL: Yes.
PINSKY: And so when some things - some allegations like this emerges, it`s almost shattering. And you`ll see that from Alex. He talks about the betrayal felt by his family and the entire community. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So it`s really the depth of the violation that`s so troubling. I mean, this is somebody - and my understanding is again I have been educated that teachers hold a very high position in your community, and to be even let down a little bit by someone whom you trusted so much for so long is a big deal.
PAUL, FATHER OF ALLEGED VICTIM: It is. I was telling my wife at one time, I would put my hands on fire for this man, because that`s how much we trusted him. I feel really, really betrayed over what he`s done with my kid. Not just with my kid, with all these kids, like my son says, with the community. He betrayed everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, Jacqueline, it seems why that this is why this is such a hot button issue, the possibility of betrayal is so intense, right?
HURTADO: Yes. Some parents are still in shock that Mr. Berndt would betray their trust.
PINSKY: Well, some are even still support him. They don`t believe he`s betrayed them.
HURTADO: Yes. Last week when he was in court, there were about three parents that showed up to court to actually support him, to be there, to say that he`s a nice teacher, he`s innocent, and that whatever they`re alleging against him is not true.
PINSKY: How could that be? I mean there`s such a - we have such limited time for this little segment, you have to listen to the whole thing tomorrow.
But how could that be? How can they make stuff like this up? Why would somebody do that?
HURTADO: I don`t know. I was surprised and I know a lot of people there were surprised that there was actually parents who showed up to court to support him, and I talked to one of the mothers and she was just surprised. She said he never did anything to my son. He`s a good man. And I said why. And all she kept saying, he`s just a good man.
PINSKY: And that`s actually the way Alex`s father Paul felt as well. But now when these stories came out, there are some stuff there the attorney shared with us that you`ll see on the interview tomorrow that sort of it gets so bad, so, ugh, that it`s hard to support a guy that have those kinds of allegations.
Again, thank you, Jacqueline.
HURTADO: Thank you, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Of course, also thank you to Paul and Alex.
Coming up, the shooting in the Ohio school, could it have been prevented? We`re learning a lot more tonight about this and maybe it could have been prevented. Watch. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): Coming up, the school shooting in Ohio. Several students are now dead from injuries they received in Monday`s attack. Could it have been stopped before it started? Or is violence simply unpredictable. Police have a teenager in custody. What do we know about him? What might it say about his alleged action?
And next, I`m taking your calls and comments about anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (on-camera): Well, we received quite a lot of comments from you guys about our discussion yesterday of Angelina Jolie and the way she appeared at the Oscar`s. Got a call from Beth who wants to go on with this topic from Kentucky. Go ahead there, Beth. Sorry, you`ve been on hold a while, too. I apologize for that. Go ahead, Beth.
BETH, KENTUCKY: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Beth.
BETH: How do you convince someone that they are unhealthy, underweight when everyone tells them they look great?
PINSKY: Right.
BETH: Too much weight loss is a dangerous health issue, right?
PINSKY: Yes. Beth, you bring up a great point, which is the standard that we`re giving young women is a standard that`s often really unhealthy. I mean, again, that`s why it`s so important to bring these topics up so you can discuss it with the kids, and go yes, this is a beautiful woman, but that`s not healthy or maybe that`s not realistic or maybe the pictures you`re looking at are all air brushed, and you shouldn`t be in any way striving for that.
And by the way, Beth, another issue you`re bringing up is this whole notion of exercise bulimia. Do you know somebody who`s suffering from something like this?
BETH: My teenage daughter. I have three children, but I have a 17- year-old daughter, and she is at a healthy weight. She`s at really good weight.
PINSKY: Yes.
BETH: But in the world`s eye, what she sees from models and actresses is that she`s way overweight.
PINSKY: Yes.
BETH: So, she constantly is walking, constantly playing basketball, constantly worrying.
PINSKY: Yes. I mean, it`s just sad is what that is. That we have young, healthy kids who can`t feel good about themselves and their body because the images they see are so, frankly, distorted. And let me just add one little quote on this, Beth, which is that exercise bulimia is something that`s very subtle. It`s where people exercise excessively.
They do a little binging and purging. They eat too much. They exercise more, and of course, they get lots of feedback from, not just their peers, but their trainers and their doctors. You`re doing so good. You`re working out. You`re so healthy. If it seems excessive, it is excessive.
So, keep an eye on that. A lot of people engage in that stuff, and that`s even harder when to treat and break people of. Thanks, Beth.
We got Kelly calling from Louisiana. Hi there, Kelly.
KELLY, LOUISIANA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Kelly.
KELLY: I watched your show the other night, and you made a comment that parents need to be responsible for their child`s actions and behaviors.
PINSKY: I did.
KELLY: Well, I tend to agree with you there. But to a point.
PINSKY: OK.
KELLY: I have a 15-year-old daughter --
PINSKY: Yes.
KELLY: -- who I have done counseling, I have done with the psychiatrist, Christian counseling. I`ve gone to parenting courses, and she is as hell bent on being a thug.
PINSKY: Well, hold on. Slow down a second. Let me just say I totally agree with you. My intent in saying that was not to create another victim, which is the parents. I mean, when you blame parents, you create another victim, frankly. So, it`s not that I was intending clearly.
But I do think there`s an epidemic in this country, and I`m certainly not calling you out on this, of people sort of asleep at the wheel, and not willing to do what they need to do or thinking they can handle it themselves or blaming the outside world, blaming the school, blaming whatever professionals they reach to as opposed to going with that and taking the recommendations.
But, Kelly, let me hear more about your situation. She wants to be a thug. Where`s her dad?
KELLY: Her dad and I are no longer together. He was only in her life for like three weeks.
PINSKY: And, are there other male figures in her life?
KELLY: No, I`m not -- I`m dating, but I`m not having anyone interfere with my raising of her.
PINSKY: Well done. Has she seen a therapist over a long period of time to develop a good, nice close attachment?
KELLY: Yes, she saw a therapist, and he said that her behavior is not psychological, but it`s a behavior problem she has.
PINSKY: This is -- what was -- this is something important for people. What are the letters after that person`s name?
KELLY: I don`t remember.
PINSKY: OK. You got to pay attention to that. It should be his I.D., Ph.D., LCSW, MD, otherwise, you may not be getting -- you know, there are lots of people out there calling themselves psychotherapists.
And somebody -- someone who has a severe behavior problem like this with abandonment issues which is, indeed, what you`re dealing with here, needs to be in a long term, highly structured sustained involvement with somebody who is highly skilled at dealing with these kinds of issues, and/or can tell you that this is a child that should be going to a structured environment.
Residential environments can be very helpful, social, peer support environments where kids learn to live healthy, in healthy psychological circumstance, healthy educational circumstance, and get attached to figures. A single positive sustained relationship outside the home can be the difference between what we saw in Ohio and somebody who goes on in life and is very successful. Thank you, Kelly.
I`ve got Darcy who e-mailed us. "When will you admit" -- this is something for me when she says -- "When will you admit that you were played by those girls with those fake tics. I knew once they started getting a lot of coverage, they would make a recovery very soon. I guess, they stopped getting coverage because they knew they would get busted."
I see. Your thing is when we started scrutinizing them, that`s when they would settle down. Well, no one at any point made a diagnosis of malingering, which is somebody intentionally, consciously, manipulating and feigning, feigning, fake symptoms. What the diagnosis was conversion, which is something that happens on a non-conscious level and gets better on its own.
And you`re right. Putting a lot of attention, creating anxiety around it will intensify the symptoms. In fact, the symptoms got worse with all the media attention, not better. And then, when things cooled down, it got better, also got better with some antibiotics.
So, there`s objective evidence that it may have been the PANDAS syndrome, the Post-Infectious Autoimmune Syndrome that sort of a weird little attack on the brain cells by the immune system after a certain infectious agents.
A whole group of the girls was treated with antibiotics and steroids, and they`re better. So, we really never know exactly what this was, but nobody suspected malingering.
Jane on Facebook writes, "How is a doctor to know someone is an addict? Someone`s addiction might be alcohol and be what is commonly known as a fully-functional. Addict or alcoholic, how can a doctor be held responsible prescribing something to a patient in that situation?"
I will grant you that the patients, the manipulative, addictive patients can be really good, and you know, doctors can be duped. I`ve been duped, and I got a pretty good meter for that kind of stuff in my head. I`ve been duped. I`m just saying that take a Whitney Houston. All you got to do is pick up a magazine, a newspaper to know that you shouldn`t be giving her those medicines.
And if it were just that case that I had seen, I wouldn`t have been upset about it. But all of my patients get prescribed these medications, even with me calling, saying please don`t do this. They get these medicines. I look at them as cruel or something for saying that I should ask my patients to suffer, that`s not what I`m talking about.
These medicines are killing them. I`m trying to prevent them from dying. And yes, patients can be very cunning, very manipulative. And absolutely, I have been duped. Anyone can be duped, but that`s actually relatively uncommon. It`s relatively uncommon.
If you ask the right questions, if you get the right history, if you have the right sensitivity to these things as a clinician, that`s our job. That`s our job to figure that out. And then, to do what`s right for the patient and do no harm.
Thank you all for calling and writing in. A lot of action on Twitter and our Facebook yesterday about the Angelina Jolie thing. I`m going to keep an eye on that, don`t worry.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Well, tonight, we`re learning more about the 17-year-old boy identified as the suspect in an Ohio high school shooting. Apparently, he was a quiet, lonely teenager -- there he is there -- who enjoyed hunting and video games. Hunting, fantastic. Yesterday, students say he walked into the cafeteria and fired ten rounds. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have three students down in the cafeteria at this time.
PINSKY (voice-over): Witnesses say 17-year-old T.J. Lane pulled a gun in the cafeteria of Chardon High School and opened fire. Police arrested the shooter but not before he had hit five students.
Tonight, we`ll try to answer the question everyone is asking, why. The lawyer for Lane`s Family says this is something that could have never have been predicted, but what about all the red flags, the disturbing photos, the angry Facebook messages, the threats on Twitter?
What about his family`s history of violence and his own troubled past? When you have guns and violence at home around children, it`s possibly a recipe for disaster. What caused this teenager to allegedly murder?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY (on-camera): Now, why we can never know for sure what makes someone do something like this, we can try to identify what factors contribute to it. Straight up to my guests, host of Judge Karen and former Miami-Dade county judge, Judge Karen Mills-Francis and criminal profiler, Pat Brown.
Before I go to you, two guys, though, I have Tyler Lillash who joins me by phone. He -- I guess, you were under a desk during a shooting, is that right, and some of your friends were victims. Tyler, can you describe what happened?
VOICE OF TYLER LILLASH, CHARDON HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: I was in my English class at 7:30, bell rang, and we, you know, I hear these three pops, you know, pop, pop, pop. We didn`t know what it was. It sounded like someone kicking a locker or slamming a locker shut.
And, we heard nurses running down the hallway, you know, yelling gun, gun, everyone get down and everyone shut your doors. That`s when our teacher shut the door, and we all got in the corner and huddled underneath our desks.
PINSKY: And I understand a couple of your friends were victims, is that right?
LILLASH: Yes, Demetrius and Danny Parmertor.
PINSKY: Did they have some relation to this kid that did the shooting? Was there some history there?
LILLASH: Not that I know of, no. I mean, I`ve never seen any talks to them or Demtrius.
PINSKY: As far as you know, were people saying that he was randomly shooting or was pretty clear he had something on his mind?
LILLASH: Well, from what I`ve heard, he was emotionless. I mean, he had a blank stare on his face and pulled out a gun and just started shooting what I have gathered.
PINSKY: All right. Tyler, I`m going to talk to you a little bit later. Stay with me. I appreciate you sharing this with us. Got to be really tough thing to talk about, but I want to get to my other guest here.
Pat, off to you, first of all, the blank look on his face, the history of a father who was violent with domestic violence, father serving time for domestic violence, kid was around guns, how do you put this all together?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, like you say, Dr. Drew, lots and lots of red flags along the way. We have essentially uninvolved families and uninvolved communities. We have violent ideations that just keeps being drilled into our children everywhere, from the video games to the television, to just the chitchat in the schools where good behavior, and positive thoughts, and beautiful things aren`t being encouraged, instead, we have the negativity.
And for a lot of kids who are pretty healthy, so what, you know, you have fun with it, you can toss it off. But for this kind of very disturbed child, he just starts obsessing on it. He just sit there with his video games and shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, and then, he`ll go to his Facebook page, and he`ll put up all his dark thoughts.
And people will chit-chat about it and encouraged him and this had (ph) validated, and then, he gets a hold of a gun, and I`m really surprised that how often that gun comes from the household. So, I`ve always thought, you know, the parents, if you leave a gun around a child who`s disturbed, you ought to be arrested for aiding and abetting in homicide, because there`s no excuse for that.
PINSKY: Well, you mention the Facebook. Lane wrote this in December in his Facebook, quote, "I feel death. Not just mocking you, not just stalking you, but inside of you." He writes, he continues, "Wriggle and writhe. Feel smaller beneath my might. Seizure in the pestilence. That is my scythe. Die all of you." That`s lovely.
But Pat, I`m so used to you saying, oh, this is a psychopath. This is not a psychopath. Is this too young to be psychopath? Is this just somebody who was so severely abused and abandoned neglected and then encouraged in a violent culture. How come this one isn`t one of your psychopath?
BROWN: Oh, he is. You were right, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: OK.
BROWN: No, he is.
PINSKY: Of course. Of course.
BROWN: But there is, you know -- throughout history, we have, you know -- there`s people who`ve become psychopaths as a fairly young age through attachment disorder and all of that. And, maybe they develop into con men. What I think what`s happening is that we have so much violent ideation that these psychopaths are grasping on to that as their way to get power and control and get back at society to get out their rage.
And so, instead of just manipulating people and being a pain in the neck, maybe cheating them like the all con man game, now, we have these guys saying, hey, here`s the way to do it. let`s just walk into my school and blow everybody away, because I`m going to be a hero. I`m going to, you know, be the anti-hero, essentially.
I`m going to get in all the newspapers. I`ll get back at everybody, not anybody in particular, as we see, he didn`t pick on, you know, somebody he really hated, just any kids standing there, and that makes him an important person and gets back at society.
PINSKY: I make a little differentiation. You`re calling a sociopath and a psychopath the same thing, and I understand that`s controversial. To me, psychopath is a biological problem, genetic problem, where their empathy is gone, like a Van Der Sloot. That`s a psychopath for sure.
And then, sociopath is somebody that`s traumatized, abused, and lives in a violent culture like you`re talking about. Karen, I want to go out to you. Do you think this young man should be tried as an adult?
JUDGE KAREN MILLS-FRANCIS, FMR. MIAMI-DADE COUNTY JUDGE: The way I read the statute, Dr. Drew, in Ohio is that if a juvenile is at least age 16, commits a violent crime, and uses a firearm, he must be tried as an adult. So, what I`m suspecting is that on March 1st, when this case comes back around, that the state is going to formally charge him as an adult.
But what I think is the problem because I was listening to your guests, we`re not asking these questions where are the parents. There was a study done by the state department and by the University of Pennsylvania that found that these children don`t snap, they plan. And this little boy was writing on his Facebook page in December, I want the world to bow at my feet.
This little boy is probably collecting bullets. This little boy has a gun. This little boy is posting these ominous pictures on his Facebook page and his parents are doing what? Apparently, he lived with his grandparents. What were they doing?
These children don`t have a right to privacy. We need to know what`s going on in these children`s lives. And I think it`s high time that somebody asked that of parents.
PINSKY: I agree with you. It`s not oh, he`s a lovely little boy. He`s just into these things. No, these things cannot be tolerated. Now, apparently, he did live with his grandparents, Karen, as you mentioned. According to newspaper reports, Lane`s father has been arrested for violent crimes against women, apparently, pretty severe.
He served prison time for assaulting a police officer and was charged withholding a woman under water and bashing her head into a wall. This has not confirmed now, but, you know, this is not a great environment. I don`t know about the mom. Apparently, the grandparents are very concerned, but - -
MILLS-FRANCIS: Everybody says they`re surprised. The statement from the family through the lawyer is that -- I mean, we don`t know where this came from. We are utterly surprised. When I heard that this little boy lived with both of his grandparents, I said, something is going on in that family. Where is mom?
What you didn`t say, Dr. Drew, just now is that the mother was convicted when he was one year old. She was convicted of domestic violence against the father. When he was three years old, the father was convicted of domestic violence against the mother.
So, we don`t know what he saw, but at the same time, that doesn`t justify what he did, because there`s a lot of children growing up in worse circumstances that don`t come into school with a handgun and open fire.
PINSKY: I will grant you, but when they do, you do tend to see these kinds of violent heritage in the history. And, yes, I heard parents say unbelievably foolish things like, well, he didn`t see anything. He was too young. He was two. He was three years old. Kids are like sponges. They are profoundly effected by these things, and we`ve got to be aware of that.
And this kid, apparently, was going to a school for kids that had trouble. So, somebody knew there was a problem here, Karen. I agree with you.
MILLS-FRANCIS: But you know what, why we know --
PINSKY: Last word, go.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Why we know he planned this is because they said that he was shooting, and the one little boy that tried to run under the table, he gets under the table and shoots at this kid. He knew what he was doing.
PINSKY: Yes. This is bad. Should he have death penalty?
MILLS-FRANCIS: There`s no death penalty. Supreme Court said in 2005, you can`t kill a child that commits a crime when he was under age 18.
PINSKY: Thank you to Pat, thank you to Karen. Judge Karen and Pat Brown.
Coming up, we`re going to talk more to Tyler, the student who did -- was present during this horrible event. He was hiding under a desk as the 17-year-old suspect, T.J. Lane, allegedly shot at the students. We`re going to ask if he knows anything more that can help enlighten us about this. It`s almost -- it`s just too much to believe. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chardon High School, we had shots, fired, gunshots. Multiple gunshots.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Multiple gunshots?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know where?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One is over by the gym. That`s where it sounded like came from gym, cafeteria. Gym, cafeteria?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s what we`re thinking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was a new 911 call just released by the police. Tonight, the suspect in the Ohio high school shooting has been identified as 17-year-old J.T. Lane.
Joining me now is Carl Henderson who lives next door to the suspect`s grandparents. I`ve also got still with me student, Tyler Lillash. He is on the phone. Tyler hid under a desk during the shooting and knew some of the alleged shooter and some of the victims.
Carl, I want to go to you first that we haven`t heard from you. You knew the grandparents, you saw the kid. Help us understand what happened here.
VOICE OF CARL HENDERSON, NEIGHBOR OF SUSPECT`S GRANDPARENTS: Well, nobody knows exactly what happened or what caused the kid to, you know, flip out here really as of yet. But he was a very good neighbor. The grandparents are a good neighbor. And you know, the whole community is upset over it, because the grandparents are very, very good people.
PINSKY: Were they deeply involved with this child? Were they having trouble raising him? Was it -- you know, he comes from a disturbed family. Was it tough for these grandparents?
HENDERSON: Well, there was a broken marriage in the family, but he was never caused the grandparents any problem at all.
PINSKY: Are you -- now, he was in sort of a secondary school, school for kids that had issues. So, there must have been something going on. Are you suspecting that this kid just had some sort of a major psychiatric break of some time?
HENDERSON: I can`t say for sure. It`s hard to say. I knew him as a neighbor that he would walk up and down the road, he would jog up and down the road, and he was a very friendly young man.
PINSKY: Tyler, I want to go to you, because you`re one of the peers, and thank you, Carl. I really appreciate you sharing this with us. Was he an unpopular kid? Did you know him before all of this happened?
LILLASH: I mean, I didn`t really talk to him. I`ve seen him walking in the hallways, but I mean, he`s a quiet kid. He kind of kept to himself, but I mean, he had friends. I mean, I never really talk to him to know what his whole story was.
PINSKY: And was he different from the kids that he shot? In other words, were the kids that were shot, were they the popular kids and he was an outcast? I heard he went through a little goth episode. Were they other goth kids that he went after? Was it something that we can understand the relationship of the kids that he selected?
LILLASH: No, I mean, they were completely different from goth. I mean, don`t know. He was goth, but I mean, I don`t know why he did what he did. I mean, they were not goth at all.
PINSKY: Were they popular? Were the other kids who are shot some of the popular kids?
LILLASH: Some of them were. I mean, some were widely known. I mean, yes, you could say they were popular.
PINSKY: What are kids at the school speculating? What do you say amongst yourselves? What do you think happened here?
LILLASH: That T.J. just -- he was emotionless when he did it. I mean, something must have just clicked, and he thought it out. And, this was the stuff on Facebook and Twitter, the photos.
PINSKY: And Tyler, I have such limited time, but am I right to say that it seemed so uncharacteristic that it`s not like oh, yes, this is this kid, we expected this, nothing like that?
LILLASH: No, no, not in a million years we ever think that he would do that.
PINSKY: All right. Guys, thank you very much. Tyler, Carl, I want to speak to you some more as we go along this week. I appreciate it.
I want to thank you all for watching, and we`re going to stay on top of this story and try to get our heads around how this kind of thing can happen. See you next time.
END
