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Nancy Grace
Jilted Lover Drives Over Ex Multiple Times; Possible Sighting of Abducted 2-Year-Old
Aired February 29, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Break-ups happen every day, right? But never like this. We go live after reports a jilted lover goes berserk behind the wheels of a black Hyundai Sonata and runs down his former sweetheart in broad daylight as stunned drivers and pedestrians scream in horror, only to watch, unable to stop the 26-year-old college student from not only running his lover down dead as she crossed the crosswalk, but then jamming the car in reverse and hitting the gas to back over her dead body -- not once, not twice, but three times.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) a hit and run.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard what sounded like the start and stop of a car (INAUDIBLE) tires spinning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hit the woman, then backed up and ran over her again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would go (INAUDIBLE) then stop (INAUDIBLE) and stop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Ann accelerated, hit her, then reversed, hit her again, and then yet again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He ran his car over her three times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s pled not guilty to...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murder in the first degree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A crime of the first degree.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-six-year-old Charles Ann. Police say he killed his ex-girlfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 25-year-old, Aena Hong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives say when she told him she did not want to see him anymore, he became enraged.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The woman`s tennis shoes were in the middle of the road, and witnesses her body was mangled beyond recognition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, we go live. A twisted love triangle turns deadly when a high-level GE executive allegedly guns down the husband of a co- worker in front of screaming toddlers at an exclusive play school, then actually attends the dead victim`s wake and funeral as if nothing is wrong, only to begin barraging the victim`s wife and mother of three with iTune love songs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our whole family has lost its brightest light!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty-six-year-old Sneiderman was killed right in front of his child`s pre-school. Neighbors tell me they cannot believe the family man, Hemy Neuman, is the same man now charged with murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neuman, Cobb Count engineer, has admitted killing Sneiderman outside Dunwoody Prep.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The man witnesses described as having a beard and hat pulled up in a minivan and shot Sneiderman several times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victim, Rusty Sneiderman`s widow, Andrea. She allegedly was having an affair with Neuman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) you know, I`d like to continue the relationship (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Break-ups happen every day, right? But never like this. We go live on reports of jilted lover goes berserk behind the wheel of a black Hyundai, running down his former sweetheart, then hitting the gas to reverse over her dead body in the middle of the crosswalk not once, not twice, but three separate times.
Straight out to Bonnie Druker, joining us live at the scene. Bonnie, what happened?
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, first of all, this should have never happened. Now, Hong was walking across this street, and Ann drove over her. And Nancy, as we said, if that wasn`t enough, he forwarded the car and then he slammed on the breaks and reversed and hit her again, Nancy, three times, so loud that people who work in these buildings heard the screeching.
GRACE: Bonnie, what can you tell us about the location? I understand it was in broad daylight, and this guy had time to back over his lover`s dead body right there in front of pedestrians and drivers three separate times?
DRUKER: Nancy, take a look at this community. It is a beautiful community. It is a busy community. The community center is right over there. We have a bank, the Wells Fargo, right behind me. And we have a kosher deli right behind me.
There are people all over the place. There are seniors here because of the community center and there are also a lot of kids around here. People who saw this are just stunned, Nancy.
GRACE: To David Lohr, senior crime reporter, HuffingtonPost. David, what do we know about this relationship? Why so bitter that in front of dozens of witnesses, he not only runs her down in the crosswalk but backs over her dead body three times.
DAVID LOHR, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: Well, Nancy, according to people that knew the couple, they said they had been dating for about a year. He had actually had plans of marrying her, while another man that she had...
GRACE: OK, wait a minute. Wait a minute, Lohr! Hold on, Lohr! Did I just hear the word "dating"? You mean, there weren`t children involved? There wasn`t a big divorce war? They weren`t splitting up a house? Nothing? There wasn`t -- there was no money, no children, no house, no assets, nothing on the line? They just had a break-up, for Pete`s sake?
LOHR: Yes. They were together for about a year. They had shared an apartment for a time. But another man she had been dating in South Korea was planning to come on over and move in with her, and that`s where this strife initially began because of the friends (ph), he was devastated. They said he couldn`t handle it and wanted to do anything he could to get her back, but she had no interest.
GRACE: Straight back to Bonnie Druker, joining us there at the crime scene. Bonnie, did witnesses try to help the girl?
DRUKER: Yes, we did speak to some neighbors. And I understand that one man tried to actually jump into the car and get Ann out of car. But the doors were locked. So -- and there were other people around her who went out. We talked to one man who works around her. He is an Iraq vet. And he said by the time he got out, no one could have helped her. She was gone, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, joining me right now is George Parnham, renowned criminal defense attorney, intimately familiar with the so-called "death by Mercedes" case. George Parnham, what is the best defense in a case like this?
GEORGE PARNHAM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY (via telephone): Hi, Nancy. I think you have to first of all go through the entire set of circumstances of the relationship. And the very best thing you can hope for...
GRACE: Well, wait a minute, George. George...
PARNHAM: Yes?
GRACE: ... I`m not even arguing with you because I know that you`re a heck of a lawyer. Now, you represented Clara Harris, right? Wasn`t that her name?
PARNHAM: That`s correct.
GRACE: All right. And wasn`t her -- what was he, the doctor or the dentist?
PARNHAM: Yes. Yes, her husband was...
GRACE: All right, and they had children.
PARNHAM: ... a dentist. That`s correct.
GRACE: They had children, a boatload of money, a big house, the whole shebang.
PARNHAM: Right.
GRACE: And she runs him down to his death.
PARNHAM: Right.
GRACE: Now, in your case that you were defending, she had a whole pot of money. She had children at stake, as I recall, young children, that were going to be affected. There was another woman. Wasn`t she the dental assistant or the secretary or something like that?
PARNHAM: Dental assistant.
GRACE: George, could you please surprise me once in a while? Does it always have to be the secretary of the dental assistant? But whatever. That`s a whole `nother can of worms.
But she goes berserk, but she has -- and I`m not excusing it. But in the case we`re talking about today, George Parnham, they don`t have children. They don`t have a house. They don`t have assets. There`s nothing to be angry about. And he runs her over three times in broad daylight. She`s like a speed bump, George.
PARNHAM: But obviously, there is something that he was angry about. And it may not be the big house and it may not be children and it may not be money. It may be a third party. It may be a fellow that was going to move in with her. It may be that what caused this horrible, horrific tragedy might have nothing to do with any of these things.
But it just seems to me that you`ve got to take a look. And you asked me about, How do you defend somebody like this? You take a look at the entire set of circumstances, what`s missing, what`s not. And you mitigate the offense as much as you possibly can. What kind of a person was this man who committed this act prior to committing the act?
GRACE: OK, you know what? That`s a really good question. That`s a good question. Back to you, Bonnie Druker. You`re on the scene. What do we know about this guy, Charles Ann?
GRACE: Well, we know that he was a U.S. citizen. We knew that he was trying to learn English. We know that he was unemployed. And Nancy, I think he had a lot of cash on him.
GRACE: He had a lot of cash on him. From what I understand, Kat McCullough, he had a ton of cash on him and was trying to leave the scene after he ran over his girlfriend, leaving her like a bump on the road, a skid mark on the street. And all the pedestrians see the whole thing.
Kat McCullough, what do we know about him? That`s what Parnham says is the key to the case, what we know about him. I know enough to go forward with a murder one charge. But what can you tell me, Kat?
KAT MCCULLOUGH, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: He left his car about a mile from the scene of the crime. Police didn`t find him right away, but eventually tracked him down to a friend`s house, where he had $3,000 cash and his passport on him, Nancy. I don`t think he was planning to stick around.
GRACE: To Rusty Haight, the director of the Collision Safety Institute, accident reconstruction expert. Rusty, I want to hear your take on this. Where do you start in a case like this?
RUSTY HAIGHT, ACCIDENT RECONSTRUCTION EXPERT (via telephone): Well, hi, Nancy. How`re you doing? I`d start at the same. There`s going to be a lot of information there, and really, that`s what the police are going to have to work with. It`s, you know, what`s the human, the vehicle, the environment side. You know, what do they find on the body? What do they find in terms of, you know, how many times in what direction it might have been run over?
Look at the vehicle. How many areas of contact did they have on the vehicle? What`s going on with the tires, the undercarriage, that sort of thing? And then the environment. You know, what about body drag marks, tire marks leading up to and going away from the body? There`s all kinds of stuff they can work with here potentially, and you know, witnesses aside, because, you know, witnesses, memory fade, and such. There`s a lot of information that they can work with, factual information that`ll be valuable.
GRACE: To Dr. Bill Lloyd, board-certified surgeon and pathologist joining us tonight out of Sacramento. Dr. Lloyd, apparently, when he ran her down, the first attempt didn`t kill her. She lay there in the street, waiting for him to back over her body until she was dead, then continued backing over, hitting the gas, over her dead body over and over and over.
Dr. Lloyd, I`m assuming she died from internal bleeding. How long would she have laid there? How many minutes would she have suffered, watching the car come back over her and over her and over her?
DR. BILL LLOYD, SURGEON AND PATHOLOGIST: From the enormous shock that she sustained from these injuries, Nancy, it seems likely that she would be unconscious or in a different state of consciousness after that first vehicle strike. So fortunately, hopefully, she was not there in mind to see all that was going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We`re going to take you straight back to our regular story, but apparently, we have some breaking news in the story of missing baby Ava.
Straight out to Natisha Lance, on the story. What happened?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, Nancy, I just got off the phone with Athena Manuma, who`s Ava`s mother. And she tells me they have received two promising tips in. One of them is from Clayton (ph), Missouri, and the other one is from Las Vegas.
Now, the Vegas tip, this person thought that they saw Ava. They saw a little girl and she was with two other people, a man and a woman. And they said to her, Ava, come on, and she ran to them.
Now, with the Missouri tip, this tip, someone saw a guy and a little girl. The little girl had fair hair just like Ava, but the hair was tangled in the back. They were crossing the street toward a bus station, and he seemed to be in a hurry. He was alone with the little girl. There was not a woman who was with them.
Now, the thing that you have to point out here, Nancy, is that Missouri is about 1,500 miles away from Anthem, Arizona, where they`re from, and Las Vegas is a little under 300 miles, or 360 miles, depending on which route you take. So this is a tip that not only is Ava`s mother looking into but also law enforcement in the Arizona -- Phoenix, Arizona, area is also looking into it.
GRACE: Straight out to Ellie Jostad. Ellie, what do you know?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the other thing that we`ve learned is that this was a very contentious custody battle between the two of them, so contentious, in fact, that when they would do the exchanges, like the one where Ava was last seen, both parents had to remain in their vehicles.
They had to designate a neutral party to get out of the cars, hand Ava from one neutral party to the other. It was very important, and ordered by the judge that they even not speak to each other. No one was allowed to talk during these exchanges.
Ava`s mother says it`s because they always got contentious. So this got so bad that they were court-ordered to do the exchanges in this very rigid, prescribed way by the judge and the parenting coordinator.
They also had to keep detailed notebooks of the time that Ava was with them, make notes about her care. They had to keep those notebooks, give it to the other parent. They both were able to make copies so they knew everything that was going on while Ava was in the other parent`s care.
GRACE: Straight out to Gregg Paul, KFYI. Greg, what is the latest?
GREGG PAUL, 550 KFYI RADIO (via telephone): Well, Nancy, the latest is, of course, with 2-year-old Ava and her father, 31-year-old Brent Anderson, still missing, police are still looking for that 2002 dark blue Chevy Silverado, AZ license plate 038-KSV.
But there has been talk of a possible link to Mexico. Brent Anderson`s new wife, Roxie (ph), has those links to Mexico. But talking to Phoenix PD, they do not believe that Brent Anderson and Ava are right now in Mexico. But they are looking for his vehicle still and they are still searching for the missing girl and her father.
GRACE: Also, to Clark Goldband. We know the circumstances of baby Ava going missing at a local Starbucks in the Phoenix suburbs, believed to be with her biological dad on the run. Why do police say point blank that baby Ava is in extreme danger?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: There are quite a few reasons why law enforcement is saying this, Nancy. First, let`s start with the job. This gentleman, Anderson, had worked at that Frye`s (ph) food store for well over 15 years, but just about six weeks ago suddenly quits. So that`s the first red flag authorities have cited.
Now, also, you take a look at the home that the family had. Anderson -- now, it is in dispute exactly how far behind he was, but everyone seems to agree that Anderson was at least a few months behind on paying the mortgage on that home. So those are two huge reasons right there.
Now, also, this child, Ava, was not returned when she was supposed to be returned, yet another red flag law enforcement has cited. And Nancy, because of all of these factors, law enforcement has issued a warrant for Anderson`s arrest. They want him and the girl returned as soon as possible. He`ll then have to be presented in front of a judge.
GRACE: So Clark, has there been any cell phone or even landline or e- mail transmissions up to now?
GOLDBAND: Nothing that we know of at this time, Nancy. Here`s the deal. First, let`s take a look at this cell phone. We do not believe Anderson has had a cell phone in the last 9 to 12 months. As we were just talking about, his home was in serious financial problems, according to multiple reports. And his mom was on the show and has told us that, in fact, he could not afford a cell phone. So no cell phone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When it was time to pick her up, Athena knew something wasn`t right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Mom goes to see her little girl, she`s gone!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your heart is pounding incredibly fast. And then, you know, you`re thinking, OK, what`s going on? Why is there no answer at the door?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Athena called police and realized Brent was having some financial trouble.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no idea where she`s at. And that`s the scariest part, is not knowing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police short on leads for where to find Ava.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this child alive or isn`t this child alive?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ava`s mom claims in court documents that Ava had numerous and unexplained injuries.
GRACE: Cuts, bruises, severe diaper rash, even burning on her fingertips? Explain, Athena.
ATHENA MANUMA, AVA`S MOTHER: It was on, like -- it was, like, on this top of her finger, like, here.
GRACE: What did the father say caused the burns?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I e-mailed him about it. There was no e-mail back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say they have no leads to Ava`s whereabouts and are concerned for little Ava`s safety.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Gregg Paul, KFYI. Gregg, what can you tell us?
PAUL: Well, right now, it looks like the latest, of course, they`re just looking for 2-year-old Ava and her father. And there`s also been talk about some post on FaceBook. Brent Anderson had a FaceBook page called Generation Dad. And it looks like his mother has posted things on there, saying things such as she`s hoping that they never are found.
So that`s the latest on FaceBook. And it looks like if Brent is communicating with anybody, he might be getting messages through that FaceBook page.
GRACE: Ellie, what more do you know?
JOSTAD: Nancy, a little bit more about that FaceBook page. It`s called Generation Dad. And the family of Brent Anderson tells us that he started the page to kind of vent some of his frustrations about this custody battle that he was having.
It`s kind of turned into a place where family members, friends of the suspect, seem to be using that to communicate with him. They`re telling him, you know, Bring Ava home safe, that this is killing them.
And his mother is even saying, you know, I hope you -- wish you good luck, hope you can stay out there not found by police because I don`t think you`re going to get a fair shake. And the suspect`s mother has confirmed with us that, yes, she posted that.
GRACE: Alexis Weed, had the mom stayed in touch with them by phone? Has she been in touch with them over this past five days?
WEED: No, Nancy. The mother has told us that the father, when he would have Ava for these visits, that he would seldomly contact her, that she would reach out by e-mail, wished she could reach out by phone, but she`s told us that for the past about nine months to a year, that Brent Anderson does not have a phone, by means that she can contact him. So no, the last time she saw Ava is when she left her at that Starbucks on February 18th.
GRACE: Ellie, what else can you add?
JOSTAD: Nancy, the problems between Ava`s parents have gone back to her birth, even before her birth. Brent Anderson from the very beginning was going to the court, asking for DNA tests to determine whether or not he was Ava`s father.
He said from the beginning that if he was determined to be her father, that he wanted visitation. He wanted custody. They`ve been fighting for now almost three years over custody of this little girl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police reportedly found Anderson`s house partially vacated, with no sign of Ava.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s when the alarm bells started going off and that`s when my adrenaline was running.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No leads as to where he or Ava might be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no idea where she`s at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Several witnesses and the prosecutor`s office say Ann used his Hyundai sonata to run over Hong several times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives are bringing him back to face justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saw the dead body of that woman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities said the couple did have a tumultuous relationship which Hong was trying to end and that may have been what drove Ann to murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to police, Ann ran to a friend`s apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After Hong was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Report lease police found this black Hyundai sonata about a mile from the crime scene. They believe it may be the car that hit the woman and then backed up and ran over her again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard what sounded like the start and stop of cars with tires spinning. It will go stop and start and stop. It happens about four to five times.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We are taking your calls in yet another death by vehicle, this time by Hyundai sonata.
Straight to Bonnie Druker there on the scene. Where is the perpetrator tonight? And where is the victim`s family? What if any charges have been leveled against him?
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we understand he is in the county jail. He is on a $3 million bail in terms of the victim`s family. We understand that they have come from South Korea and are indeed in the United States right now, Nancy, and it is first-degree murder.
GRACE: To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, just off the top of my head I can think of two other cases. And there are many, many more. Of course there`s a case involving George Parnham as the criminal defense attorney. That was Clara Harris. Her victim was David Harris, her husband of many, many years, the father of their children including minor children.
There was also Chante Mallard, as I recall, woman who ran down a man on the side of the street and actually drove all way home with him on the front of her vehicle. And then parked in her garage, set the garage door, went inside and left him there to die.
Now, both of them as I recall faced murder charges. Dr. Saunders, Chante Mallard acted out of fear of being caught and prosecuted. Clara Harris acted in anger and revenge. None of those are defenses under the law. As you heard Parnham state earlier, there is no house, there is no money, there are no children at stake. So, why, why, Dr. Saunders?
DOCTOR PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, this guy may try and claim the irresistible impulse which we know doesn`t fly under the law anymore. I think this is an instance of what we call narcissistic rage. That is not having this woman that is rejecting him to shatter his frail sense of himself. It is not an insanity defense, not a diminished capacity defense. It is first-degree murder.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. John Manuelian, Lorna Owens. Murder one, Manuelian, what`s your defense?
JOHN MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s not murder one. This was done with rage. This is a crime of passion. It is an overcharge to charge this guy with murder. The correct charge is voluntary manslaughter. And by the way, he might have mental defenses. According to the victim`s English teacher, she believed that this guy, Charles Ann, had mental issues so it could be a temporary insanity if she wins this case.
GRACE: So basically, you`re going to throw it all at the wall and see what sticks. Manuelian, you say that this is not premeditated murder. The three of us know that premeditation can be formed in an instant in the twinkling of an eye.
MANUELIAN: Sure.
GRACE: The fact that he lay in wait, parked in his vehicle, waiting for her to come in the crosswalk. That he had gotten a huge sum of cash. That he left his car behind so he would not be caught. Are you suggesting, John Manuelian, that those factors do not indicate preplanning?
MANUELIAN: Well, the cash happened way after. Remember, for rage or anger, there has to be a cooling off period. Where was the cooling off period?
GRACE: You meanwhile he sat in the car and waited for her?
MANUELIAN: He could have had his blood bursting his rage could have been going on while he was sit go in the car. Who is to say?
GRACE: You asked me when is his cooling off period. I tell you, his cooling off period is when he is sitting there in the car waiting to run her down dead. That`s the cooling off period.
MANUELIAN: I disagree.
GRACE: Now, what is your next attack?
MANUELIAN: I disagree.
GRACE: You do. OK. Back to you. Finish, please.
MANUELIAN: That is the defense. You show that there has never been a cooling off period. As I said before, Mira Park who was the victim`s English teacher said this guy had mental problems. So, that would be another something that you want to explore as a part of the defense.
GRACE: Dr. Patricia Saunders, how often do you hear the lay slang term, mental problems? Going mental, you`re crazy. That`s a far cry from insanity under the law, Patricia.
SAUNDERS: The criterion for insanity under the law is very high. And the behaviors described so far in no way come near it. You have to be psychotic, fully delusional, or mentally deficient. Crime of passion, temporary insanity is basically BS.
GRACE: To you, Lorna Owens, what about it?
LORNA OWENS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Actually, it could easily be temporary insanity, crime of passion. There has not been a cooling off period. We don`t know the background. He might not have been eating. He might not been sleeping. We understand --
GRACE: Wait, wait. Stop, put her up. Put her up. OK. Lorna, maybe eyes that is not working. Did I just hear you say maybe he hadn`t eaten so?
OWENS: Maybe he had not been eating. So, he was a little cranky?
GRACE: No, no, no.
OWENS: Basically, we`re looking at somebody who mentally has a mental issue. He is totally distressed.
GRACE: OK.
OWENS: People act very differently.
GRACE: Lorna, what mental issue are you telling me he had?
OWENS: We`re hearing that he was distressed. We`re hearing that his teacher that that he suffered from mental problems.
GRACE: Distressed. I`m asking you, give me the mental illness. Not having breakfast is not going to work with me. Distress. We`re all distressed, Lorna. Ask anybody on the street in Manhattan. They`re all suicidal. Everybody is distressed.
Dr. Patricia, please - you know what, wait a minute. Parnham, George Parnham, remember Parham, this is not your client. So don`t start up any crazy talk. OK? Explain, explain the truth about insanity. Give us the definition of insanity. And please, don`t jump on the he had not had breakfast bandwagon, George, please. I`m counting on you for a truthful answer, Parnham.
GEORGE PARNHAM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE (via telephone): All right. Insanity, there are probably 40 different standards in the United States on insanity. But basically, --
GRACE: How about (Inaudible). Just hit me with the McNaughton test.
PARNHAM: It boils down to a severe mental disease and/or defect. The person in order to have a credible defense of insanity must be suffering from either, a mental disease and/or defect or a severe mental disease and/or defect as it is in the state of Texas. But that`s not sufficient. That person, must that defect, must cause that person not to know what that person was doing was wrong.
And in some states, there is a substantial capacity to not understand or appreciate or know the nature of your actions or the consequences of your actions. And not to know morally or legally what you`re doing was wrong.
GRACE: Parnham, you said that so beautifully. Let me just talk straight for a moment. Parnham, doesn`t it boil down to this? Whether you know right or wrong at the time of the incident.
PARNHAM: Well, whether you`re able or capable of distinguishing between right or wrong or whether you --
GRACE: Yes. OK.
PARNHAM: You know there can be a surface knowledge. For instance, in New York, there is a surface knowledge that doesn`t qualify an individual to be found guilty.
GRACE: Would you say, George, would you say that, and you and I both know the law George, regarding a cooling off period. There is not a time range for cooling off period. But from the time she broke up with him and he was angry, to the time that he ran over her dead body repeatedly in the road. Days had passed.
PARNHAM: It seems to me, and I`m going to refer to the case of the Mercedes situation.
GRACE: Yes. Your case.
PARNHAM: Clara was convicted of murder but was sentenced under voluntary manslaughter.
GRACE: Right.
PARNHAM: The jury found that there was inadequate cause for sudden passion that gave rise to her act of running over David three times. And that was all based on the fact that she had much to gain and to lose and wanted to keep him as her husband, and found out about the affair.
Now I don`t think the materiality of one person doesn`t have anything, the couple didn`t have anything, the Harris` had everything.
GRACE: Yes. I agree with you, George. But in the Harris` cases, there were children at stake and it is my understanding that the other woman was someone the wife had known for some time that made her blood boil. And I agree with the murder one conviction in that case. You managed to get her sentenced to a lesser.
But unless there is a murder one charge and conviction in the current case, girlfriends, wives, ex-girlfriends, lovers, we`re all fair game to get run down in the street dead. And then, the perpetrator walks on a lesser sentence. That is what this case stands for.
Very quickly, we are showcasing your photos from ireport on our family album. Here, you look Joanna Prince Andersons, mom Ashley with her 3-year- old little girl, (INAUDIBLE). They love ice cream, singing and dancing together.
Let`s see your favorite photos. Go to ireport family album at hlnTV.com/Nancy Grace and click on Nancy`s family album.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEMY NUEMAN, DAY CARE SHOOTING SUSPECT: I know you read Miranda rights and it, it seems like it`s as if I`m a suspect and --.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you a suspect?
NUEMAN: I`m -- I don`t think I need to be a suspect. I shouldn`t be a suspect. No reason why I should be a suspect but you are reading me my rights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean you`re shaking like a leaf. I got to wonder about that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Andrea and I are friends. She works for me of course.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: An incredible case, part of a twisted love triangle is unfolding right now in upscale Atlanta suburbs. A man guns down the husband of a co-worker in front of screaming toddlers at a high end play school.
Straight out to in a Natisha Lance on the story. What happened? Isn`t this guy a GE engineer in charge of 5,000 other engineers?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. And he also managed an $800 million budget. What police are saying now is that Hemy Neuman came to the day care center where Rusty Sneiderman was dropping off his 2-year-old son. He was wearing a hood and he was bearded.
He fired four shots into Rusty Scneiderman. Then he sped away in a silver minivan. Now, it wasn`t for six weeks, Nancy, until police were able to connect the dots and see that Hemy Neuman was responsible for the shooting when they realized he had rented this silver minivan about a week prior to carrying out this murder.
GRACE: As a matter of fact, Stacey Newman, the job was so clean. Police first thought it was a professional hit on the victim in this case. The victim was 36-year-old Rusty Sneiderman. His wife, Andrea, worked for the defendant and I think what really brought my attention to the fact that he could have been the killer is just a few days after the murder, he starts sending the wife of the victim iTunes love song like "I love you just the way you are."
Come on, Stacey. When a guy is burning a CD for you or sending you itunes, he has a bad case of love.
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy. And this is just some of the evidence that the prosecution has wanting to say. He plays a role in Hemy Neuman being responsible for the shooting. That song you were talking about, very popular by Bruno Mars, "Just the way you are." He basically gifted that to the victim`s wife Nancy, through an itunes gift card, sending her that song just a few weeks after the shooting, also sending her numerous e-mails professing his love, even wanting her to marry him.
GRACE: John Manuelian, Lorna Owens, let`s see them. Defense lawyers. Don`t see them. Waiting. There they are. OK.
To you, Manuelian. I love you just the way you are. Why didn`t he just go ahead and write a confession?
MANUELIAN: Is that a question you want me to answer?
GRACE: Yes.
MANUELIAN: Look.
GRACE: That`s the first thing is hit it and play the song in full with a transcription of the lyrics. Then I would start my opening statement. I think that would set the tone for this whole thing. But it`s not a laughing matter. This guy according to police shows up in front of toddlers.
How do you think I would feel if somebody comes and does a murder in front of my two 4-year-old twins so they can remember that, their childhood memory is a murder going down right in front of their eyes?
MANUELIAN: It is problematic. The defense will be a tough time dancing around that. And as a prosecutor, I`m sure you would have an excellent time playing the Bruno Mars track to the jury and painting that picture. So the defense has a job ahead of itself.
GRACE: You know, one of the defense attorneys in this case actually used to be my public defender, Lorna Owens. Bob Rubin, a very esteemed defense attorney now in private practice in the Atlanta area, has a lot of high profile cases.
What choice does he have? Because it turns out this minivan, I mean, that`s a heck of a getaway car, a black minivan or a silver minivan. He comes up in a hood. It`s like he`s read too many novels. He comes up in a hood. Does a point blank range execution to underneath the left jaw? Shoots this guy multiple times, hops in the car, leaves.
But he`s rented the car ahead of time. I mean, he came all prepared. Not only that, he had been advances on the victim`s wife forever. She worked for him. Probably afraid she would lose her job the whole time. What about it, Lorna? Let`s hear your defense.
OWENS: Basically you`re going to look at the evidence. It is reasonable doubt wherever you can find it. So you are not going to necessarily argue the facts. The facts are what they are. We take our defendants as we find them. When look at the forensic. We look at the totality of the circumstances and we hope somewhere there we can find reasonable doubt.
GRACE: OK. Brent Brown, you`re a form he Atlanta cop. Let`s hear your side.
BRENT BROWN, FORMER ATLANTA POLICE OFFICER: I think this is a pretty simple case. I`m not totally sure that the wife doesn`t at least have some knowledge from some of the statements she said. This is a horrible case.
GRACE: You know you bring up a really good point, Brent Brown. Because there were multiple e-mails, phone call, cell calls back and forth between the wife and the defendant. And from my understanding, Brent Brown, before she called anybody immediately after the shooting, she was calling the defendant. But I firmly believe the state had any idea she was part of this murder, that she would also be charged.
BROWN: I think you`re right. I think they -- I think the police speculate that she has something but that`s where it stands. They`re looking for the evidence.
GRACE: It`s going to be a face-off between prosecutor, Don Guery (ph) and the elected D.A., used to try cases with Don Guery (ph), and former public defender Bob Rubin in an upscale Atlanta play school. Murder goes down there in the parking lot. Now, it is revealed that`s part of a twisted love triangle between a boss and his employee.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is 31-year-old Brent Anderson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone just wants to see Ava back home safely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He does not want to be caught. He`s not going to contact me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And see if he has child protective service who had been trying to get a hold of the father.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, there were marking on her when she would come home. And we wanted to document it. We brought it up to -- at one point in time when cps was involved, we brought it up to them to move forward to get it notated. They said to take her to the doctor and also let them know, too, so they could see it as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son took her to the doctor and verified and had the doctor verify. We have documentation that it was not abuse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With these allegations that were labeled by the mother, of course, with the cuts, the bruises, the severe diaper rash that when baby Ava was coming back from his house, back to the mother`s house, this is what she was experiencing. And CPS, child protective service, had been trying to get a hold of the father but was unable to because he does not have a phone and he would not contact them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have not heard from my son, but do I know that he would not do anything to hurt her or harm her. And she even admitted that to my daughter days ago when we were at Brent`s house. She went over there and saw my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My advice to custodial parents is to know as much about the noncustodial parent as you possibly can. Know their vehicle make, their model, and their license plate number.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When there`s no answer, yes, there`s something wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s in extreme danger.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s pretty disturbing situation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the mother dropped Ava off with the dad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Being a father, that`s all he`s wanted to do, is take care of her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He says she had joint custody yet a strict schedule.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she went to pick Ava up, the father was a no- show.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alarm bells started going off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She knocked and she said she felt immediately something was wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doesn`t have a phone. There`s no way of contacting him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Out of the ordinary for this father to just take off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could be that he`s upset at his relationship and he`s sending a message to his wife.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Larry Woods Jr., 24, Lebanon, Johnson Kentucky, killed, Iraq. On a second tour, bronze star, Purple Heart, two army come men addition medals, three army achievement medals. Loved to music, playing trumpet, trombone, piano, drums, camping, fishing. Beautiful blue eyes.
Leaves behind parents, Gary and Becky, a gold star mother, step parents, Pat and Debbie, sister Driven, Gary Lee Woods Jr., American hero.
Thanks to our guest but a special to you for being with us. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
