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Nancy Grace
Couple Stages Hit-and-Run to Hide Beating Death of 3-Year-Old
Aired March 06, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Stover, Missouri. A frantic 911 call, a little 3-year-old boy dead on a busy highway after a late-night hit-and-run. Bombshell tonight. EMTs race to the scene to find the toddler covered in bruises, lacerations over his entire body, head, neck, torso, arms, legs. The one thing investigators couldn`t find, evidence of a hit-and-run.
Tonight, what happened to a 3-year-old boy, baby Blake? Because there was no accident. This scene was staged. Tonight, we have done our own investigation, and we want justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three-year-old Blake Litton. The little boy was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a hit-and-run accident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mother`s boyfriend told authorities 3-year- old Blake walked onto highway 135.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Said the car didn`t stop. Blake Litton was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Community members shocked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got sick to my stomach and threw up and cried.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On alert for the missing driver.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were some inconsistencies with the story at the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Court papers say Thomas Joseph Presley lost control, beating Blake to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just didn`t quite add up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say Blake was severely beaten.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The physical injuries just wasn`t consistent with a car accident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Child abuse, severely beaten.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Beat to death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The little boy was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cops say Presley tried to cover it up, staging a hit-and-run accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just didn`t quite add up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say evidence pointed to murder, and that Blake`s mother knew about the plan, as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live, Missouri. A frantic 911 call reports a 3-year-old little boy dead on a busy highway after a late-night hit-and- run. EMTs race to the scene to find the toddler lying there, his whole body covered with lacerations, arm, neck, torso, legs. The one thing they couldn`t find, any evidence of a hit-and-run.
And let me the tell you, it is my firm belief that this scene was staged. This little boy was not a victim of a hit-and-run. So what really happened?
Straight out to John DePetro, WPRO. What did police find when they got to the scene of the hit-and-run?
JOHN DEPETRO, WPRO: Nancy, when police were called in, they did not find any evidence typically of a hit-and-run. There were no skid marks. Also, the condition of the little boy was not that of someone typical for a hit-and-run. That is not what happened that night.
GRACE: OK, John DePetro, who called 911?
DEPETRO: Well, T.J. Presley called the police...
GRACE: Who`s T.J. Presley?
DEPETRO: He is the mother`s boyfriend, and he had...
GRACE: OK, mother`s boyfriend. John, John, John, let me just ask you a few rapid-fire questions, OK, so we can understand what happened that night. So mother`s boyfriend calls police about a hit-and-run. All right. What time of the day or night was it?
DEPETRO: It was 5:15 AM.
GRACE: 5:15 AM. What does Mommy`s live-in say he was doing out at 5:15 AM?
DEPETRO: He had said that he was stopping for a bathroom break...
GRACE: Bathroom break.
DEPETRO: ... and the little boy darted out of the car.
GRACE: Well, OK, John, I don`t understand. Why was he out at 5:15 AM to start with?
DEPETRO: Well, Nancy, they had apparently brought food to the mother, who was working, and says that he stopped for a bathroom break on their way home.
GRACE: OK. Got it.
To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, wasn`t there a 3-year-old little girl sibling? Where was she?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, that`s right. She was actually there, as well. It`s our understanding that she was in the car, too, when this alleged hit-and-run happened.
GRACE: OK. Ellie, take it from the top. What do we know about the night the mom`s live-in calls 911? Excuse me, early morning, 5:15 AM. Go ahead.
JOSTAD: Right. Well, the mother is actually working an overnight shift at a nursing home nearby. Boyfriend is in charge of the two little kids. They`re just 11 months apart. There is 3-year-old -- just turned 3 little sister, and then Blake, who`s also 3 years old, almost 4. He would have been 4 last Monday.
So boyfriend actually early in the evening had gone to Wal-Mart, bought some food for Mom, dropped it off at her work, and then came home. Some point after that, he tells police that he decided to go visit his brother, and that`s why they were on this rural road at 5:00 o`clock in the morning.
GRACE: Going to visit his brother at 5:00 AM. OK, what happened then, Ellie?
JOSTAD: Right. So what he says happened is that both he and the little boy need to take a bathroom break, so they pulled over at the side of the road. He says that little Blake, just 3 years old, suddenly darted out into traffic, although it`s unclear how much traffic there would have been at 5:00 in the morning, and went straight into the path of this oncoming car.
He said it was a white vehicle. It didn`t stop. It just continued heading northbound on this road.
GRACE: Joining me right now, special guest Doug Van Sweden, accident reconstruction expert. Doug, thank you for being with us. Doug, what should police have found had this been a hit-and-run?
DOUG VAN SWEDEN, ACCIDENT RECONSTRUCTION EXPERT (via telephone): If it had been a hit-and-run, I would expect to see the young man`s body farther away from the road. I`m assuming it was found either in the ditch or nearby the road. Also, perhaps some glass or other broken plastic pieces from the striking vehicle.
GRACE: And what do we know about where the body was found, Ellie Jostad?
JOSTAD: We`re understanding that the body was right there on the side of the road. There wasn`t any indication that he was thrown from the scene, like you`d expect.
GRACE: To Dr. Vincent DiMaio, former chief medical examiner, Bexar County, forensic pathologist. Dr. DiMaio, you have reviewed the case. What did you learn?
DR. VINCENT DIMAIO, FMR. CHIEF MED. EXAMINER, BEXAR COUNTY: The injuries don`t make any sense for a hit-and-run. The child would have been slammed down on the pavement and propelled forward. There would have been road rash all over the child, not multiple lacerations and bruises.
GRACE: What is that? What`s road rash?
DIMAIO: Scrapes. You know, if you slide across concrete, you get this brush-type abrasion. And you would have expected to see that.
At the point of impact, there would have been extensive fracturing. The child would have been pushed downward, so you might have a skull fracture. But you`re not going to have multiple bruises and lacerations because the child`s going to be killed almost instantly.
The injury pattern doesn`t make sense for a hit-and-run. It`s somebody who`s been beaten. Multiple bruises, lacerations -- that`s most consistent with being beaten.
GRACE: Dr. DiMaio, I don`t know how many hundreds of child abuse cases you have handled, but I`ve handled more than I can even count. And right now, I can hardly stand to even look at the little boy on the screen because I know what happened to him.
And it was not a hit-and-run, Dr. DiMaio. It was a severe and brutal beating at the hands of Mommy`s live-in while she was at work, allegedly, that the little boy used the bathroom in his pants, and it made the live-in so angry, he started punching and beating the little 3-year-old boy, then threw him in the tub, and continued beating him until he defecated even more in the tub.
Ellie, I can hardly recount what we have learned really happened to this child. And it was no hit-and-run, Ellie. I`m going to let you tell it, if you don`t mind, please.
JOSTAD: Yes, the details in this case are absolutely horrifying. Police say that T.J. Presley, the boyfriend, actually texted the mom and said, "I lost it." He even thought he`d beaten the little boy so badly that he might be paralyzed.
Police say that the little sister -- who, again, is just 3 years old - - also told police that she witnessed this whole thing. She`s the one who saw her little brother poop his pants, is how she put it, and saw who she called her daddy -- really, her mom`s boyfriend -- beat the little boy. She said he punched him, kicked him, beat him with the bathtub, is how she put it. She said that her little brother just kept going to the bathroom while this was going on.
And the injuries are awful. The little boy had bruises all over his head, torso, arms, legs. He had lacerations on his body. He had a broken blood vessel in his brain, Nancy, and also a lacerated liver.
GRACE: OK. Dr. DiMaio -- you know what, DiMaio? You must have a stomach that is made of steel because...
DIMAIO: Well, Nancy...
GRACE: ... you can address this so logically. I want -- I think I know, but you`re the doctor. I`m just a JD, you`re the MD. Explain to me why this boy`s brain had a laceration. What happened to his brain? What happened to his liver, Doctor?
What really happened? And why isn`t this case a death penalty case! Why? Because it`s a little boy, a 3-year-old child? Why is this murder -- why is this murder 2?
DIMAIO: The problem with our society is we`ve become too tolerant of cases like this. The liver was injured because...
GRACE: No, I want you to tell me, Doctor! You tell me, DiMaio, why is this boy`s brain and liver injured!
DIMAIO: The child was punched or kicked in the belly, rupturing the liver. The head was slammed against something hard, most likely the bathtub, maybe once, but more likely repeatedly. And this produced hemorrhaging in the brain, hemorrhaging in the abdomen, in the liver, lacerations, tears. The child was beaten to a pulp.
And you`re right, this should be a death penalty case.
GRACE: And why, Doctor, why did the little 3-year-old baby boy start defecating in the tub? Why?
DIMAIO: Because his brain was being destroyed. He was losing all ability to control all his functions and...
GRACE: Look at this boy! Look at him! Why is this not a death penalty case?
And when we come back, you`re going to learn that the mother knew damn well what was happening!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-one-year-old Presley said the car didn`t stop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were some inconsistencies with the story at the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cops say Presley tried to cover it up by staging a hit-and-run accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The physical injury didn`t -- just wasn`t consistent with a car accident.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So this little boy has to die so we can have our eyes opened?
To you, Ellie Jostad. It`s not just the live-in. You know, why this woman had to have a man so badly that she would tolerate someone beating her little boy like this -- it wasn`t the first time.
And that`s not all, Ellie. Isn`t it true the little girl has severe beatings in her medical records, too? They can find old injuries. And isn`t it true, Ellie, that this mother`s own father, her blood father, her biological father, said, Take these children away from her? Isn`t that true, Ellie?
JOSTAD: Yes. Yes, that is true. Both of those things are true, Nancy. The little sister -- she was examined after this happened, after her brother died. She had bruises. She had a broken arm, Nancy.
And the great-grandfather tells us that she actually had two broken arms, that her other arm showed evidence that she`d had what he called a greenstick fracture some time ago, which had healed.
GRACE: OK, out to you, Ray Giudice. One reason this should not be a death penalty case?
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Number one, Mommy`s going to take a plea to the cover-up. She`s going to become state`s evidence...
GRACE: Let`s talk about boyfriend.
GIUDICE: ... but that will be part of the -- that will be part of the deal, that she will do that to help -- in a deal that the boyfriend does not get the death penalty. That`s why. But you`re right, it qualifies under Missouri law...
GRACE: You`ve got it...
GIUDICE: ... and it will be indicted.
GRACE: Hold on, Giudice. Hold on! Hold on! Hold on!
GIUDICE: Yes?
GRACE: You`ve got it bass-ackwards. This is the way this is going to get down. Get her testimony in exchange for the state not seeking the death penalty on Mommy.
GIUDICE: No, no, no, no.
GRACE: I appreciate your woulda-coulda-shoulda.
GIUDICE: No, she loves him and she don`t want him to go to the gas chamber, and she ain`t going to cut your deal. She`s going to cut my deal.
GRACE: OK, fine. Fine. Let them both go take a nice deep breath in the gas chamber, for all I care. OK, Rodriguez, let`s see what you have to say.
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, the monster, how you want to believe him that he told her and she knew and inculpate her with his conversation -- ain`t going to happen. Ain`t going to happen.
GRACE: Really?
RODRIGUEZ: She`s going to plead...
GRACE: What about the text?
RODRIGUEZ: She isn`t going to plead to an accessory...
GRACE: He put it in writing.
RODRIGUEZ: That he has beat the baby. He didn`t say he killed the baby. Look, she`s culpable of something, and she should be punished. But it isn`t going to be accessory to the murder. No way. And it isn`t going to be first degree.
GRACE: You know, Rodriguez, I love it -- I love it when you know that you`re -- there`s really not a nice way to put it -- lying because you can`t even look up at the camera.
OK, Sue Moss, tell me why this shall be a death penalty case.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY (via telephone): (INAUDIBLE) person knows that when you repeatedly hit and kick a 3-year-old, that that will cause death! This perp made the deliberate decision again and again and again to hit and hit and hit this toddler! He knowingly caused the death of another person!
If this person was an adult, there`d be no issue! If there was an adult dead, murder one charges would absolutely be read! And guess what? Mom is a co-conspirator because for weeks, weeks upon end, she knew, and knew that this abuse was going on. And she had a responsibility to care for these children as their primary caregiver!
GRACE: Caryn Stark, I just don`t understand the mentality of why Mommy needs a man around so badly. I mean, I don`t think he`s working. He`s contributing nothing to the home. If he was taking care of the children and being a positive influence, yes, keep him, fine. She doesn`t have to hire a baby-sitter. But why is it so important that she have him?
And as far as her not being inculpated in this case, Caryn Stark, she`s the one that set up the whole scenario. She`s the one that brings the live-in in and leaves him in after repeat beatings on the children. She`s the one that set the whole scenario up for this 3-year-old boy to be murdered.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: You`re right, Nancy. That`s exactly what happened. This mother is complicit. And I know it`s hard to understand, but you are not talking about a normal person. You are talking about somebody who has no conscience, who has no feeling about herself. She is not a complete person. How can she care for another person? She needs a man. That`s all she could think about, that in order for her to be whole, she needs a man. And these children do not count to her. She was there. She saw that little boy with a very weak pulse and allowed this whole thing to be staged. And only someone who has an anti-social personality could stage the death of this boy and have that much aggression.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Court papers say the mother`s boyfriend, Thomas Joseph Presley, lost control, beating Blake to death and hurting his 2- year-old sister, as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is where Joseph Presley told authorities 3- year-old Blake Litton was killed when he walked onto highway 135 near Buttons (ph) Road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were some inconsistencies with the story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say Blake Litton was severely...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. And joining me now is a very special guest. It is Minister John Wagner. He was the mom`s minister for the past 12 years at First Christian Church, Don (sic) Wagner at Versails (ph), Missouri. Mr. Wagner, thank you for being with us.
JOHN WAGNER, MOTHER`S FAMILY MINISTER (via telephone): You`re welcome.
GRACE: Mr. Wagner, I`m sorry. I understood it was Don, but it`s John. Is that correct?
WAGNER: It is John, yes.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you, Preacher. Sir, what do you make of what has unfolded? You have been their pastor for 12 years. And these children have obviously been beaten to a pulp for years now. This didn`t just start. Was there no sign, no hint that anything was wrong?
WAGNER: Well, I have been the minister for the past 12 years for the family, and I`ve gotten to know them well. When it comes to the abuse that has taken place here, this has been something recent that, really, we weren`t aware of until it came out at the death of Blake.
You know, there were some concerns that the family has had when it came to T.J. Presley and his relationship with Jamie and with the kids. But when it comes to the abuse information, that`s something that we really were not aware of.
GRACE: You know what, Preacher? I believe you so much because I know in your position, if you had known, you would have acted. You mention T.J. Presley, the live-in. How long had he been in the picture, sir?
WAGNER: Well, from my knowledge, I know that he`s been a part of a relationship with Jamie for about a year, but that`s been off and on. And it hasn`t been until just recently that they -- I guess, at the beginning of the year, January 2nd, I think they moved into a different location, away from Jamie`s parents. And there was no contact then with her parents at all until the time of the death. So...
GRACE: Preacher, what was her reaction in front of you over the baby`s death?
WAGNER: What was whose reaction?
GRACE: The mom, Jamie Ann.
WAGNER: She is distraught. She is distraught. She doesn`t understand. She`s distraught.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Blake was supposed to turn 4 next week, but the little boy was killed a week ago.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This is where Joseph Presley told authorities 3- year-old Blake Litton was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It breaks my heart.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twenty-one-year-old Presley said the car didn`t stop. The Highway Patrol started investigating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were some inconsistencies with the story at the scene, according to the trooper and our deputy that were there.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities say evidence pointed to murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just didn`t quite add up.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cops say Presley tried to cover it up by staging a hit-and-run accident, and that Blake`s mother, Jamie Litton, knew about the plan as well. This community says they`ll never forget Blake or how he died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We have done our own investigation. This was no hit-and-run. Look at this boy. This child was absolutely brutally beaten to death. Beaten to the point he was defecating in the family bathtub, as the mother`s live-in continued to beat him mercilessly. Then, based on what experts believe, and you will hear this tonight from our medical examiner, Dr. Vincent Dimaio, this child was laying out by the side of the road by mommy`s live-in to make it look like he was the victim of a hit- and-run.
Instead of taking the child to 911 to maybe save the child`s life, his body was laid out by the road, so he, the live-in, could save his own skin. And guess what? It just might work.
Liz, put up those numbers, please, and those names. Because this live-in is only charged with a variation of manslaughter. Not murder one.
I think our voices should be heard. The Morgan County DA, 573-387-4694. The Missouri Attorney General, 573-751-3321. The governor, 573-751-3222. Anyone that loves children, that cares about what is right and what is wrong must be heard tonight.
The 3-year-old little sister, the two were only nine months apart, multiple prior injuries to her little body.
Dimaio, I hate to even make you go through it again, but explain to our viewers just joining us why this child continued to defecate in the bathtub as the live-in continued to beat him. Why is he liver damaged? Why is his brain damaged?
DR. VINCENT DIMAIO, M.D., FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BEXAR COUNTY, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: His liver was damaged because he was either stomped or kicked or punched in the belly, crushing the liver. His head had to have been slammed down against something hard, like the bathtub, injuring the brain. Once the brain was injured, he lost all control of his abilities to prevent himself from defecating.
GRACE: You know what, just stop. Just stop, Dimaio. Just, please, stop. Because I can barely stand to even hear it.
OK, Ellie, give it to me in a nutshell. What`s the mother`s involvement?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the police say that the mother actually got a text from her live-in boyfriend that said, "I lost it," and that he thought he`d beaten the little boy to the point that he was paralyzed. Then, Nancy, though, the boyfriend actually took the little boy to the mother`s work. She came out and checked on him.
She told police that the little boy was breathing shallowly, that he had a very faint pulse. In fact, she wasn`t even sure, after she thought about it, if he had a pulse at all. She may have been just been feeling her own pulse when she checked his. She said that she yelled his name, at -- yelled at the little boy, screamed his name at him, and he didn`t respond.
However, when she later showed up at this scene of the alleged hit-and-run accident, she didn`t tell police anything about having seen her little boy earlier. She didn`t tell police that she knew he`d been very badly injured earlier that morning.
GRACE: OK. I want to go back to a special guest joining us. It is Minister John Wagner, with the First Christian Church in Versailles, Missouri. He`s been the minister to the mother now for 12 years.
You know, Minister, I really appreciate you being with us tonight.
JOHN WAGNER, MOM`S FAMILY MINISTER, FIRST CHRISTIAN CHURCH: You`re welcome.
GRACE: And what this brings to mind, it brings to mind to me Peter, who stood by while the crucifixion was happening. And did nothing. Denied he knew anything. You know the story much better than I do, for Pete`s sake. I`m just a wretch.
But here the mother that you know so well, that was so distraught over her child`s death, in front of you, let the live-in take the boy away and did nothing. Did nothing. What do you make of it, Preacher?
WAGNER: You know, I don`t have answers. I wish we had answers to know that -- why people do and don`t do the things that they should. Opportunities were there and -- but for whatever reason, which I don`t know if they`ll ever give us answers, or if they can even answer for themselves. But nothing was done.
GRACE: What was she like, Preacher?
WAGNER: And that`s unfortunate.
GRACE: What was she like with these children?
WAGNER: Oh, she`s a loving mother with the children. Playful, fun, I am - - I`m heartbroken over the situation. I don`t understand --
GRACE: Preacher, I can`t -- I`m not attacking you. I`m not.
WAGNER: I know.
GRACE: But I don`t understand how a mother could stand by while her daughter has not one but two broken arms, her son has repeated brutal beatings. They`re 3 years old. Her own father is begging people to take the children away from her.
Unleash the lawyers. Sue Moss, New York. Raymond Giudice, Atlanta. Hugo Rodriguez, Miami.
First to you, Giudice. Give me your best defense.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, if I`m representing the wife, I`m going to call that minister as the best character witness you`ve ever put up for her, that this is not in her character.
GRACE: Oh, you know what, Ray?
GIUDICE: Prove that the child was not --
GRACE: Put him up, please.
GIUDICE: -- was dead at the time that she saw it, meaning it`s merely an obstruction of justice after the death. I got to pick my defense.
GRACE: Ray?
GIUDICE: Yes?
GRACE: Ray, you and I practiced law against each other for many years, and you know very well.
GIUDICE: That`s right.
GRACE: I have had many defendants put up their preachers.
GIUDICE: I know.
GRACE: And let me remind you, they all ended with a guilty verdict. So, it`s bad enough to take part in a killing of a child, but don`t drag Jesus into the mix, and try to get him to pull you out of the jam you`ve dug for yourself.
GIUDICE: Listen, first of all, the medical examiner would have to prove that she was aware that the child was dying when she saw him. Otherwise, her involvement is post-death, and that`s obstruction only.
GRACE: Uh-huh. OK, Sue Moss.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: You`ve got to be kidding me.
GRACE: Do you want to me tell me the mother did not know about any of these beatings?
MOSS: I mean I cannot believe this. She saw -- she saw or should have seen the beatings. She knew that not one, but both of her children were being absolutely, absolutely abused from this guy. And what did she do? She didn`t even tell her preacher about this. There were so many people in that community that could have helped and she did nothing. She is equally culpable for what had happened. She is a conspirator.
GRACE: OK, Rodriguez, give me your best shot.
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FMR. FBI AGENT: I feel bad for her. I feel bad that she didn`t have the strength to come forward and deal with the issues, whether she is legally responsible for the death of her child, I do not believe so. She`s going to live in her own prison for the rest of her life, mentally, but she`s not liable for the death.
GRACE: OK. Stop.
RODRIGUEZ: She`s not going to be liable for the death.
GRACE: Don`t even talk to me about the prison she`s going to be in her own mind.
RODRIGUEZ: You`re a mother, you understand.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) concerned enough to speak out while police were there and she`s looking at the spot on her -- on the rug where her son, her 3- year-old baby had just been laying.
Caryn Stark, you know, I don`t get it. I don`t get it.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: This is not a mother. This is not somebody who loved her children. This is a monster. She is not going to be living in any kind of a prison. Unfortunately, there are no feelings here. She was not able to connect with her children. It was broken when a biblical cord was --
GRACE: You know what, Caryn, I disagree with you. For once I disagree with you.
STARK: OK.
GRACE: In the sense that, I think that as a judge I had, he was 84 years old, would tell a jury, it`s your duty to make all of the witnesses speak the truth. I think that the preacher is telling the truth, that she did love her children, and I think that you are telling the truth that she did not love her children. She did not care enough about her children to do anything.
STARK: But Nancy --
GRACE: Perpetual beatings. She wanted a man there in her home, in her bed, more than she wanted her children healthy, Caryn Stark.
STARK: That`s right. She did want a man, I agree with you, but that shows you that, emotionally, this woman was disturbed, because she did not have normal attachment, the way you do with your children, and most mothers do. She did not care he was dying.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Three-year-old Blake Litton. The little boy was killed in a hit-and-run accident.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The mother`s boyfriend told authorities 3-year-old Blake walked on to Highway 135, said the car didn`t stop. Blake Litton was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The community members shocked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got sick to my stomach and threw up and cried.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On alert for the missing driver.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want justice. I want justice now. And what I don`t understand is why this case is not a murder one death penalty case. This case is about to be taken to the grand jury.
Out to Deanna Wheeler with "The Lake Sun" joining us.
Deanna, thank you so much for being with us. Do I have my timing correct? Is the district attorney taking this case to a grand jury?
DEANNA WHEELER, REPORTER, THE LAKE SUN: Yes, he will. There`s a hearing scheduled for T.J. Presley at the end of the month where the case will be reviewed and things will progress. And so we don`t know if capital charges will be brought against him.
GRACE: But right now, Deann, let`s just take one thing at a time. It`s my understanding this case is going to a grand jury and a grand jury has two functions. It can be an investigative grand jury that conducts investigations, it can be a charging tool for the district attorney`s office, which is what I believe it will be in this case.
Right now, Deanna Wheeler with "The Lake Sun," this has been an arrest under a similar charge such as involuntary manslaughter and murder two it`s called in that jurisdiction. Why has this not been treated as a murder one death penalty case, because, what, the victim is 3 years old? Does that make it different?
WHEELER: You know, it`s not just murder two that he`s been charged with. He`s also been charged with abuse of a child resulting in death which is another felony, a class A felony. He`s also been charged with --
GRACE: Is that death penalty qualified case?
WHEELER: With all of the charges combined, he can actually seek the death penalty. Missouri has to have an aggravating component.
GRACE: Are you positive? Are you positive?
WHEELER: Yes.
GRACE: Because, Ellie Jostad, our research shows that this has not been charged so far as a death penalty case.
JOSTAD: Yes, that`s right.
GRACE: What`s the highest charge so far?
JOSTAD: Right now, the highest charge is that second-degree murder charge.
GRACE: That`s not a death penalty case, Ellie.
JOSTAD: Right. It`s not at this point unless they would -- but, Nancy, one thing to keep in mind, they have already amended the complaint against the boyfriend. He was initially just charged with second-degree murder. They added that child abuse and they added two counts of child endangerment, so it sounds like they`re not done with him, this could be bumped up to even higher charges.
GRACE: Elle, Elle, when you`re saying they added charges of child abuse, what is the specific charge they added?
JOSTAD: They amended a charge of child abuse resulting in death. That was the charge that was added.
GRACE: Now is that a death penalty charge in Missouri, Elle?
JOSTAD: No, I don`t believe it is, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. So Deanna Wheeler, there is no formal indictment. It`s not over yet. This is going to be taken to a grand jury for the formal charge.
WHEELER: Yes.
GRACE: There`s still time.
WHEELER: There is still time.
GRACE: For there to be a death penalty case. OK, Deanna, explain to me what`s the theory they`re using on the arrest of the mother?
WHEELER: The theory that they`re using is that she played a component in T.J. covering up this death. There were several text messages that were brought up earlier. So she knew about it, that Blake was seriously injured. Then when T.J. brought Blake and the younger sister to her work for Jamie to look at, that`s when T.J. had mentioned that he was terrified of going to jail, and that he was going to stage this lake accident so that Blake could get still the medical attention that he needed but he could avoid jail.
GRACE: So instead of taking the child straight to ER, Deanna Wheeler, with "The Lake Sun," he staged an accident. Did I get -- did I understand that correctly?
WHEELER: Correct.
GRACE: And did the mother know this was happening?
WHEELER: Yes. T.J. had told the mother at work.
GRACE: OK. All right. Ray Giudice, Hugo Rodriguez, Sue Moss, there you have the mother`s involvement. This is not a movie. This is whoever is yelling out bring it, and I don`t want to hear that. This is not a sports event, all right? Just stop.
Out to you, Levitan, Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. One of these texts actually say -- where he writes her and says, I lost it and beat the baby. I am going to hear from Levitan as to how you get that back to show it to a jury.
Pat Brown, while I wait on Levitan`s satellite, weigh in.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": Well, here`s what I think. I think both of these people are pretty evil. I think that this man should be charged with kidnapping and murder because it was a stranger keeping that child in the room, and doing that to him, it`d be kidnapping and it would be a first-degree murder charge.
And that woman, I want to mentioned this about the pastor, she was acting for him. He probably did think she was a sweet women because she was acting every time she was around him. These are very, very evil people. Both of them need to go away for a very long time.
GRACE: And you know what, Pat, the mom is no better. She`s no better. That`s her child, it is her duty to protect him. She works at a rest home as a nurse`s aide, for Pete`s sake. She knew the child was dying, Pat.
BROWN: She -- well, she allowed this obviously for a long time. Either she beat the children herself or she helped him beat the children or she allowed him to beat the children, but she was involved every step of the way.
GRACE: Everyone, quick break. Our family album is back and we would love to see family photos. I want to see something good in this world.
Here is the Poe family. Mom Roxanne loves her children, Chelsea and Courtney. Chelsea, 6th grade, gifted program, plays percussion. Seven- year-old Courtney, dancing since 3, ballet, jazz, hip-hop.
Share your photos with us. IReport family album. Go to hlnTV.com/nancygrace and click on Nancy Grace.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Telecommunications expert Ben Levitan.
Ben, I -- I`m glad I finally got you. Ben, there`s apparently a text from the live in boyfriend that says I lost it and I beat the baby. How can we get that back out of the texting cloud that it is sitting in to show it to a jury?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, Nancy, this is so close to when it happened that it`s likely the phone company still has that in their -- in their mailbox. And also, it will exist on both phones if the phones were confiscated, and even if they were erased, we`re going to be able to retrieve those messages. Not only will it show us the text of the messages but it will show us where he was in a general area when he sent that text message.
GRACE: And you know what, that could end up to be very, very important. For all I know, he drove around with the child dying in the backseat for a long time, picking out where to stage the hit and run.
Steve Moore, former fed with the FBI. What should cops be doing right now to make this a death penalty case?
STEVE MOORE, FORMER FED WITH THE FBI: What they should be doing is determining the actual time of death. You have misprision of a felony which is just concealing a felony, but by her own admission, the child was still breathing when it got to the mother. Therefore, if her actions contributed to that death by not reporting it, there is potential murder charge there.
Had she brought the child to the hospital, could the child have lived? I mean, this is what the lawyers are going to argue. But if the child was alive when it was brought to her, we`re not talking about assisting, we`re talking about committing.
GRACE: You know what, that is a very good distinction. Assisting versus committing. And of course, as you know, Steve Moore, better than anybody on the panel, former FBI agent, assisting in a murder makes you party to the crime.
Once again, Liz, I want to see the phone calls, the phone numbers for our viewers to use tonight to let our voices be heard in the prosecution of this case. Still -- there you go. The district attorney, 573-378-4694. AG, 573-751-3321. Governor, 573-751-3222.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Staff Sgt. Jordan Emrick, 26, Hoyleton, Illinois, killed in Afghanistan. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, three Navy and Marine Corps Achievement medals, Combat Action ribbon, on a third tour. Loves sky diving, sailing the Pacific. Leaves behind parents, Terry and Doris, brother Brandon, sisters Christine and Britney.
Jordan Emrick, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
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