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Piers Morgan Live
Interview with Nick Cannon; Interview with Mark Driscoll; Interview with Montel Williams
Aired March 11, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Tonight, he's a rising star who has it all -- bright career, superstar wife, beautiful family. But Nick Cannon is on a fight of his life, battling a serious illness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Lupus nephritis.
NICK CANNON, HOST, "AMERICA'S GOT TALENT": Yes.
MORGAN: It sounds like a rapper.
CANNON: You're funny today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Nick Cannon on his life with Mariah Carey --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANNON: She is amazing. Dr. Carey as I call her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And the loss of family friend Whitney Houston.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANNON: Mariah took it extremely hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Plus, controversial Pastor Mark Driscoll, why his book on marriage on sex.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PASTOR MARK DRISCOLL, AUTHOR "REAL MARRIAGE: THE TRUTH ABOUT SEX, FRIENDSHIP AND LIFE TOGETHER": I think if you're married, you should enjoy one another and it helps to safeguard the marriage from all kinds of problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And you know this Emmy-winning talk show host, but Montel Williams is as passionate about politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONTEL WILLIAMS, TALK SHOW HOST: I don't know why all of a sudden this country decided that we all have to be against each other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And keeping America great.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Something that was called the home of the brave, the land of the free, we all agree that we were the same -- that's what we want to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
(MUSIC)
MORGAN: Good evening.
Tonight, the big story: Nick Cannon battling back from a serious health scare and speaking out about the fight of his life. The host of "America's Got Talent," my old show. Nick is married, of course, to Mariah Carey and the father of two young boys.
He joins me now for this primetime exclusive.
Nick Cannon, you're alive.
CANNON: Yes, and you just turned my daughter into a boy.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
MORGAN: I keep forgetting that.
CANNON: You got them gifts. You don't -- you were at the baby shower and you don't remember one was a girl and one was a boy?
MORGAN: My humble apologies.
CANNON: It's all good. I still love you.
MORGAN: It's me that just had a daughter as well.
CANNON: Yes, congratulations.
MORGAN: Thank you.
How are you? CANNON: I'm good. Man, I'm awesome. I mean, obviously, it was a rough start at the beginning of the year, but I mean, I'm turning it all into a positive.
MORGAN: Here's the thing: when I worked with you on "America's Got Talent," you were super fit, and you used to boast to me about how --
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: -- you were. Great shape you were. You flexed the guns and so on. What went wrong? Did you know what happened?
CANNON: Yes, it was a few things. I feel like the thing that kind of brought it to a head was I was overworking myself, working out too much, actually was trying to work through a cold at the time when I was in Aspen with the family. And I think that kind of just -- my body went into overload. I was trying to use like a bunch of cold medicines, I was already on like a bunch of protein, working out and all of that.
And it just kind of created this pain that I could not deal with in my back, and I kind of had a feeling, like, yes, that's probably my kidneys. And then, you know, a lot of people, they started like, oh, maybe it's kidney stones from dehydration. Maybe it's an infection. And as they did more and more tests, they found that I actually had kidney failure.
And now, it take -- you know, took a while, took a few months. But, you know, through a bunch of tests and studies, they found out that I have lupus nephritis, which is an auto-immune disease that attacks -- it's a -- it's a rare one. Mine was a very rare case, but it's attacking only my kidneys.
MORGAN: See, only you would have even a cool-named disease.
(LAUGHTER)
MORGAN: Lupus nephritis.
CANNON: Yes.
MORGAN: It sounds like a rapper.
(LAUGHTER)
CANNON: Right? That's -- what, yes, you're funny today.
(LAUGHTER)
MORGAN: Joking apart, I mean, I have known you a while, and I know from people that know you, it was pretty serious. And some of the doctors actually felt it could be very, very serious.
CANNON: Right. Well, even -- not only is lupus nephritis very serious, but the things that it can bring on and one of the biggest things they were saying, that I had -- I'm -- I was prone -- or more prone to getting blood clots. And I was trying to do everything to prevent that. I was wearing the surgical stockings. I was on a blood thinner, so many different things while I was in the hospital.
And after I hosted the preshow for the Super Bowl, started to get pain again, and this time it was a little higher, and there was fluid around my lungs and I had two blood clots in my lungs. And because of that, I also had an enlarged heart, too. So it was a lot that really happened because my kidneys weren't functioning right.
MORGAN: Was there a moment when you thought, I'm in real trouble here?
CANNON: I've tried to be optimistic the entire time. Everyone else around me, obviously, was really like this is life-threatening and this could happen. So I never got to that stage where I was like, OK, this is it. But I knew the severity of the situation.
So I, you know, I'm a glass-is-half-full type of guy, so I never went to that place, even though I knew it was very serious.
MORGAN: See, my glass is half-full, because part of me was obviously feeling really, you know, concerned for you. And the other half, the positive glass-half-full was thinking, maybe I can get back on "America's Got Talent" as the host.
CANNON: Exactly, there's a slot open.
(CROSSTALK)
CANNON: You know, you're too busy. I'm here to tell you, you need to slow down, too.
MORGAN: Well, here's the interesting thing, because I flew around a lot with you on the show, and you used to tell me about your schedule. And you used to make me exhausted listening to you talking about it.
CANNON: Absolutely.
MORGAN: I mean, you had this crazy, crazy schedule. You would survive on basically two or three hours sleep a day.
CANNON: Two hours of sleep. I'm now been ordered to get at least six hours of sleep a night.
MORGAN: Are you doing that?
CANNON: I have to. I have to. Yes, the doctor's like you have to lay down at least for six hours, and not only for my condition but because of the -- you can get a lot of swelling and you can't -- you know, so I have to be, you know, horizontal for at least six hours.
But, I mean, I'm dealing with it. The doctor doesn't -- they made me quit my morning radio show, which I wasn't excited about. I mean --
MORGAN: You love your show. CANNON: I loved doing it, but you know, on the East Coast, I was up at 4:00 am to do a five-hour show. And on the West Coast, I was up at 1:00 am. So I wasn't even sleeping when I was --
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: You made a sort of documentary about this, some footage.
CANNON: Yes.
MORGAN: I want to just play a bit of this.
CANNON: The whole process I've been documenting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANNON: Doing this incredible health hustle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Facing more health problems.
CANNON: Some days you have good days. Some days are bad days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nick suffered mild kidney failure.
CANNON: As tough as I want to be on bad days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doctors found two blood clots --
CANNON: Nothing to play with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANNON: So, yes. I got -- I'm directing that. I put that together. I just been since probably my first time out of the hospital in January, I've just been having cameras on and I've been doing -- it's real intimate and raw like --
MORGAN: Why have you wanted to do that?
CANNON: Oh, for so many reasons. One, to kind of show the other people that are dealing with these illnesses that they're not alone.
A lot of people see me on television, talking to Piers Morgan and different shows and -- but they don't really get to see how it's affected me. There are so many questions. How did you get this? How are you working through it? You're going to see all of this on my Web site, on NickCannon.com, to be able to just -- I call it the "Incredible Health Hustle."
MORGAN: Twenty-six million Americans have some form of chronic kidney disease. That's incredible.
CANNON: One out of nine adults are dealing with it in some type of way. And people -- a lot -- they don't even know they have it. And that's kind of what, you know, World Kidney Day and this month is Kidney Month as well. They're just trying to get the message out there, to get tested, you know. It can come from high blood pressure, it can be hereditary.
And the thing about kidney disease is people don't actually know they have it, because it disguises itself as fatigue. So people like you and I, who could get tired all the time, just think, oh, I'm just tired, I need to sleep. But those are the beginning stages, and then obviously it can turn into something a little more severe.
MORGAN: Now, more importantly, how is your lovely wife?
CANNON: She is amazing. Dr. Carey, as I call her, because --
(LAUGHTER)
CANNON: -- she has been taking care of me and our kids through this entire process.
MORGAN: It's a tough time for a wife when her husband is as sick as --
CANNON: It's -- we feel like we've been in hospitals for like almost two years, when you think about obviously everything that she went through being pregnant with twins and her having, you know, it was a difficult pregnancy for her.
And then, you know, seems like right after that, top of this year, I'm in the hospital as well. So -- but she is such a pro, like she knows all the home remedies. She knows when I'm supposed to take my medicine, what I'm supposed to eat, what I'm not supposed --
MORGAN: And she pleased or not very pleased that you are now horizontal for six hours more in the day?
CANNON: She actually is more pleased because we're both horizontal next to each other.
(LAUGHTER)
CANNON: So it's nice that I actually get to spend more time at home because of not doing the radio show and having the rest more. And that's what it's all about. Family is first.
And, you know, it's a thing where I get to just wake up in this morning, I get to see my kids with my wife, where before I would be at the radio station. So this is -- this is better. This is great.
MORGAN: It's interesting you mention that, because Whitney Houston died, as we know, a few weeks ago. I covered the funeral for CNN. You tweeted at the time, "Tell our loved ones how much we love them while they're still here. I wish I could have told Whitney how great she was one last time."
Mariah, I know, was at the funeral.
CANNON: Right.
MORGAN: Elaborate on that for me and what did you mean by that? CANNON: It was quite interesting, because when we found the news out, I was in the hospital in -- we were looking at -- watching CNN in my hospital bed, and you know, Mariah took it extremely hard, and, you know, because not only was that someone who was her peer, it's also a close friend.
And just to be able -- I know what she was dealing with and how people just started to come and let her know how special she was and how to keep her head up. It's like everybody needs to hear that, you know. We want to send the flowers while people can still smell them.
MORGAN: Yes. It's very true, isn't it?
CANNON: Yes, absolutely.
MORGAN: Has this whole experience for you made you reevaluate your life?
CANNON: Absolutely, 100 percent. I wouldn't say it put me on a ticking clock, because I never want to think like that. But you want to spend each day making sure it counts, you know what I mean? Like not wasting any time, but also not letting negativity and all the things that we might focus on that are really trivial get in the way.
It's like I want to focus on the right things. I want to focus on educating people about their health. I want to focus on, you know, so when I'm not here, there's a legacy of more than just, oh, he was a funny guy, whatever, like I really want to, you know, leave this world a better place than before when I got here.
MORGAN: And I don't want to distress you any more or upset you, but how is "America's Got Talent" with me, because during auditions, I can only imagine this, for you, a massive personal loss.
CANNON: It is a quite different show, that's all I'm going to say. There's a lot of people -- I don't want to say a lot, I'm lying -- there's a few people who miss you.
(LAUGHTER)
CANNON: And I'm one of them. I'm not going to lie. We had such an amazing rapport and banter back and forth. And my rapport and banter back and forth with Howard Stern is different, because he comes in like the audience is different, it's all these people screaming "Bababooey!" And it's -- but it's fun. I mean, it's a fun --
MORGAN: I'm sure it would be hilarious. I love Howard.
CANNON: So to see what he's going to do, he's actually -- he's filling your shoes quite well. And he references you quite a bit. He says you were a great judge. He says -- he's a fan of yours.
MORGAN: Any other compliments?
CANNON: Not really.
(LAUGHTER)
MORGAN: Nick, seriously, it's a great pleasure to see you. I'm glad you're back on track, because I was actually genuinely worried about you.
CANNON: Oh, I appreciate. You were. You texted me, you called me up.
One of the few people who actually reached out and was really concerned. I appreciate that.
MORGAN: Well, you've always been very thoughtful to me. I appreciate it.
Good to see you.
CANNON: Good to see you, too.
MORGAN: Take care.
Nick Cannon, good to see him back on track.
Coming up, what would Jesus do? Controversial pastor Mark Driscoll, his book on marriage, as some are calling, well, is a sex manual.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Tonight sex salvation and the struggle for America's soul.
Pastor Mark Driscoll's X-rated talk is clearly taking heat from the right and the left. He's one of the most polarizing spiritual leaders in the country. And his new book is "Real Marriage: The Truth About Sex, Friendship and Life Together".
And Mark Driscoll joins me now.
Welcome, pastor.
DRISCOLL: Thank you.
Good to meet you, Piers.
MORGAN: You're the first guest who's ever come clutching a Bible.
DRISCOLL: I brought it as a gift.
MORGAN: Really?
DRISCOLL: So there you go --
MORGAN: A thoughtful gift.
DRISCOLL: -- from one Irish Catholic boy to another --
MORGAN: Thank you.
DRISCOLL: I brought you a Bible as a gift.
MORGAN: I -- I will value it.
DRISCOLL: I know you've got a lot of Christian guests --
MORGAN: Yes.
DRISCOLL: -- and I thought maybe it would be helpful to keep --
MORGAN: None of them ever brought me the Bible.
DRISCOLL: There you go.
MORGAN: Not even Kirk Cameron brought me a Bible. He probably should have done, actually.
(LAUGHTER)
MORGAN: Now, your book --
DRISCOLL: Yes?
MORGAN: -- has managed to achieve the impossible. Absolutely everybody has gone potty, right and left.
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: So the right think it's way too graphic and explicit, because you talk about sex, which is unmentionable to many in the right-wing.
And on the left, they're like, whoa, who is this guy --
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: -- saying that women have to be submissive, succumb to their man's advances whenever he wants them and so on.
DRISCOLL: Well, I don't know if I said that. But, OK, keep going.
MORGAN: But you did say that.
DRISCOLL: We'll get there.
MORGAN: All right. Well, tell -- tell me about the book.
What was the idea behind this?
DRISCOLL: Well, as a pastor, helping people, I answer a lot of questions, we do a lot of counseling. I tried to finally write down a lot of the things that we've been teaching together, my wife and I, Grace, for many years -- as well as some of our own story, mistakes we've made, things we've learned, trying to help people.
MORGAN: There's a lot of sex in this book.
DRISCOLL: The first half of the book is on marriage, primarily around friendship, which is a big idea that's important. And then the second half is around sex --
MORGAN: But it moves quite quickly from friendship into sex. I mean, unusually for a man of cloth, you -- you -- you're keen on it.
DRISCOLL: Well, I think in you're married, you should enjoy one another and it helps to safeguard the marriage from all kinds of problems, so, yes.
MORGAN: But only in marriage?
DRISCOLL: Only in marriage. That's the biblical position, yes.
MORGAN: So you -- you never had sex before marriage?
DRISCOLL: I did and I was wrong. I had sex until I became a Christian. I became a Christian at age 19.
And I'd be the first to say -- I'm not trying to throw stones at people or pretend that I've done it all right. I was sexually active and then I became a Christian, and reading the Bible, realized I shouldn't be sexually active. So I stopped and I've been faithful to my wife now for 20 years, by God's grace.
MORGAN: There's this extraordinary story in here where your wife, Grace, you have this dream after you get married --
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: -- in which you --
DRISCOLL: I have weird dreams. Sometimes I see stuff, supernatural stuff.
MORGAN: Well, tell me about this --
DRISCOLL: Not all the time.
MORGAN: Tell me about this particular dream.
DRISCOLL: Well, it was something that had happened when we were first dating and she was only 17 years of age. I found out some things later in the marriage, like the fact that my wife had been sexually assaulted. And we hadn't put together those details.
And I -- I don't think it's uncommon, when you get married, sometimes it's not until you're married for a few years that you start to really get to know each other and -- and some pieces come together.
And so, you know, those were hard points in our marriage, but, honestly, we --
MORGAN: Yes, but you had a dream where, specifically, you -- you could envisage her making out and you confronted her after having the dream --
DRISCOLL: Yes. MORGAN: -- did this happen earlier in her life and she said yes, it did. And you said had you known about it, you would not have married her.
DRISCOLL: Yes, I think I was --
MORGAN: But why was -- why should it be one rule for her and one rule for you?
DRISCOLL: I think I was selfish and I think I was being a hypocrite. And I'm not going to defend things that I've done or said or thought that were wrong. No.
But I do believe -- and this is where we're going to get to Jesus -- that he died, he rose, he forgives me, he helps me, and I hope to keep changing and doing better.
MORGAN: But for people watching this, you know, especially younger people, for example. They said, well, it's all right for you. You know, you had all this sex until you were 19, then you get --
DRISCOLL: Well, it wasn't a lot of --
MORGAN: Then you got born-again so you had sort of sown your wild oats and then -- and then you've become a born-again virgin. But for them, you're trying to punish them and they can't have anything.
DRISCOLL: Well, I think, ultimately, sex is best reserved for marriage. And I think if you look at the statistics of sexual assault, sexual abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, there's a lot of people that are suffering, too.
MORGAN: There's a lot of sexual abuse in marriages. A lot of --
DRISCOLL: Ten percent to 14 percent.
MORGAN: -- a lot of very unhappy marriages.
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: One in three, roughly, ends in divorce.
DRISCOLL: Yes, but it depends on how you cut the statistics and --
MORGAN: But pretty much.
DRISCOLL: Yes
MORGAN: I mean, you wouldn't -- you wouldn't contest that. I mean, marriage is --
DRISCOLL: No. Marriage is a rough state.
MORGAN: Yes. And the main theme of keeping your marriage alive from here is lots of sex.
DRISCOLL: Friendship, that's the big idea.
MORGAN: And lots of sex.
DRISCOLL: Well, friendship is really the foundation.
MORGAN: This book is full -- and I don't want to go on about it, but it is full of sex.
DRISCOLL: Yes. But it talks about --
MORGAN: It's unusual for a church man.
DRISCOLL: -- pornography and the detriment that it is. It talks about sexual assault. So the talk about sexuality --
MORGAN: I get that.
DRISCOLL: -- isn't all just --
MORGAN: I get that but --
DRISCOLL: -- you know, how to do Cirque de Soleil.
MORGAN: What is surprising and what is contentious is that you think that women should play a more submissive role than, perhaps, the average modern woman would like to, in the sense that if the man wants to have sex at any time --
DRISCOLL: No, I don't believe that. I don't believe it. What I do believe --
MORGAN: Well, you pretty well say that.
DRISCOLL: I -- no, what we say is that a couple should serve on another, love one another in the context of friendship and that means sometimes he serves her, sometimes she serves him. And that's really the context of the friendship in and out of the bedroom.
But, no, I -- I don't believe that a man should be boorish or bully or boss his wife and that if he just gives an order, then she's supposed to go ahead and do that, because that's very abusive.
MORGAN: Do you think -- given you're so traditional, do you think a woman's place is really at home, looking after children?
DRISCOLL: I think it depends on the woman. It depends on the family. There's a lot of circumstances.
I mean, with unemployment the way that it is and all the different variables -- I'm a pastor. I have -- I have a church that I lead. And when you're dealing with people, there's a lot of complex variables.
Now, for us, we're very blessed. We have five kids, kindergarten to freshman in high school. And Grace is able to stay home with them. And that's what she wants to do. And -- and I'm very grateful for that.
But we know that for all families, that's not always possible.
MORGAN: I mean, many Catholics don't agree with contraception.
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: What's your position on that?
DRISCOLL: Yes, we do have a section in there on contraception. And I hold a more Protestant position, that contraception is not always sinful.
So though I love and appreciate Catholics and I was Catholic for many years, I wouldn't hold that position.
MORGAN: I mean a critic would say, again, you -- you changed your position because you realize that you couldn't have contraception in the Catholics, so you drift into --
DRISCOLL: Well, I couldn't get married as a Catholic. That was more of an issue. I mean, I --
MORGAN: Yes, but I mean, should you be so bending with your religious positions and (INAUDIBLE)?
DRISCOLL: Yes, well for me, honestly, it goes back to the Bible. And I'm trying to look at biblical principles and be faithful to the Scriptures. And -- and for me, I -- I couldn't have become a priest because, you know, that -- the vow of lifelong celibacy wouldn't have really worked for me. And -- and so, I don't see contraception as necessarily sinful in all cases, yes.
MORGAN: Let's take a little break. Let's check back and talk about some of the big contentious issues of this week.
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: Kurt Cameron, what he said about --
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: -- homosexuality and gay marriage in particular, which --
DRISCOLL: There's been a mushroom cloud after that.
MORGAN: Well, let's see your view of it, actually.
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: So we'll ask you after the break.
DRISCOLL: OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DRISCOLL: The Canadian nudist arsonist cult has decided that the name Jesus Christ is code word for getting high on hallucinogenic mushrooms so then you can get naked and set things on fire, which is crazy. But I guess if you're going to join a cult, join a fun one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Preaching in prime slot (ph) for Pastor Martin Driscoll (INAUDIBLE) come with a pretty powerful message.
And he's back with me now.
I mean you're not your average pastor, are you?
DRISCOLL: I don't know.
MORGAN: Saying stuff like that.
DRISCOLL: I have fun. Sometimes I get it wrong.
MORGAN: Do too many people in the world of religion take it too seriously?
Is that part of the problem?
DRISCOLL: I think we should take Jesus seriously. We should take the Bible seriously. We probably shouldn't take ourselves nearly as seriously. And that's how I approach it.
MORGAN: Do you think you're a tolerant kind of guy?
DRISCOLL: I love people very much and it's -- it's --
MORGAN: That's not the same thing.
DRISCOLL: Well, it's -- how do you disagree, sometimes, with people that you love?
That's a very difficult issue for everybody, but for a pastor in particular, because --
MORGAN: But do you preach tolerance?
DRISCOLL: I've preached that we should love our neighbor, that we should accept --
MORGAN: But tolerance -- tolerance in particular.
DRISCOLL: Why -- you keep hammering it. What -- what do you mean by tolerance?
MORGAN: Tolerating people who may have a lifestyle or a belief that you don't agree with.
DRISCOLL: Yes, we have to. And that's -- when Jesus says love your neighbor, you know, he knows you're not going to agree with all your neighbors, but he wants you to love them, to seek good for them, to care for them.
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: What did you make of the whole Kirk Cameron scandal, as it's become, where he, you know, for 15 minutes here, he sat here espousing what I think he thought were perfectly normal Christian views. But he did it in a way that people saw was really very bigoted toward gays.
What did you think of that?
DRISCOLL: To be honest with you, I haven't seen the whole thing. So I --
MORGAN: But you know what he said.
DRISCOLL: I saw some of the Twitter and, you know, some of the blogging and stuff. But that's not always the best snapshot of the full context of the conversation. So I -- I don't know, to be honest with you.
MORGAN: Well, OK.
I mean do you think that homosexuality is a sin?
DRISCOLL: The Bible says, on six occasions --
MORGAN: What do you think?
DRISCOLL: I believe that all sex outside of heterosexual marriage. So, me as a teenager having sex before marriage, that was wrong. People looking at pornography is wrong. Single people having sex is wrong. Homosexuality is wrong.
So there's a long list of things that the Bible says is wrong.
MORGAN: Right. But given eighty states in America now have legalized gay marriage, that's fine, right?
DRISCOLL: Well, no. I mean it's amazing, because there were anti- sodomy laws and anti-fornication laws on the books just a few generations ago.
MORGAN: I mean, no one's taking much account of the anti-fornication laws, are they?
DRISCOLL: Yes, I do -- I don't want to be the one to enforce those laws or go around --
MORGAN: Right. But my point is, it -- you know, the Bible is what it is. It's an extraordinary book --
DRISCOLL: Right.
MORGAN: -- which has governed people's moral and personal behavior now for --
DRISCOLL: Thousands of years.
MORGAN: -- thousands of years.
However, like everything in life, shouldn't it be dragged kicking and screaming into each modern era, and be adapted, like the American Constitution.
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: Because, you know, my -- my view about this is -- is not that I don't respect Christians or Catholics or whoever who -- who absolutely swear by every word in here. It's just that it's -- I just don't believe anyone who is genuinely Christian should be spouting bigoted opinions about sections of the community for their sexuality.
DRISCOLL: Well, I think when it comes to the Bible, you've got three options. Take it, I believe what it says. Leave it, I don't believe what it says. Or change it --
MORGAN: Or adapt -- or adapt the wording --
DRISCOLL: Which would be the changing it.
MORGAN: -- for a modern era.
DRISCOLL: That would be the changing of it. That's exactly what, for example, Thomas Jefferson did. He literally sat down in the White House with scissors and cut the parts out that he didn't feel should be in there.
MORGAN: But given that more Americans now believe that gay marriage is acceptable than don't in this country --
DRISCOLL: Well, we don't know, because it has -- it hasn't been voted on.
MORGAN: No, but that's what the latest polls -- national polls have said.
DRISCOLL: Well, there's -- there's the polls, there's the news, there's the truth. Until there's a vote, we really don't know.
MORGAN: Right. So let's get to the point where there is one day a vote, right?
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: If it was in -- the majority of Americans believed in it, would you then go along with it?
DRISCOLL: Would I officiate same-sex weddings and things of that nature?
MORGAN: Yes. DRISCOLL: I couldn't, according to conscience, no.
I think the big issue for families in America is really men who walk out on their families. I mean, right now, the average child born to a woman under 30 is born out of wedlock --
MORGAN: Yes, but that's why --
DRISCOLL: -- with no father.
MORGAN: -- see, that's my whole point about this. There are so many feckless guys out there --
DRISCOLL: That's really --
MORGAN: -- right?
DRISCOLL: Yes.
MORGAN: Who marry endless times --
DRISCOLL: And just keep having kids.
MORGAN: -- they have had --
DRISCOLL: They don't --
MORGAN: -- hundreds of kids.
DRISCOLL: -- fund them, they don't.
MORGAN: They have no responsibility.
DRISCOLL: They don't support them.
MORGAN: They're ghastly human beings.
DRISCOLL: That's the heartbreak.
MORGAN: I don't hear many pastors, at least Catholic ones or Christian ones, ranting about those guys. All they want to rant about are gay marriage in loving, monogamous relationships with a -- with one other person who just want to have the same right to get married as I do as a straight guy.
DRISCOLL: Yes, for me, I hammer those guys like a pinata on Cinco de Mayo. That's really --
MORGAN: Oh, come on.
DRISCOLL: -- like a pinata on Cinco de Mayo. That's my sweet spot, young guys who don't get married, they take advantage of women, they sexually assault, they're addicted to porn, they're irresponsible. I mean, for the first time in the nation's history, a woman is more likely to be in church, college and the workforce than a young single man. And there's sexual assault, sexual abuse, abortion, children born out of wedlock. Forty percent of kids go to bed without a father. I mean to me, if we're going to talk about, you know, what's really harming the country --
MORGAN: You see --
DRISCOLL: -- that's a big issue.
MORGAN: Well, I agree with all that. But I also think what is harming America right now, like many countries around the world, is just a fundamental lack of tolerance and respect for people who may not share your personal values. You know, I just think that pastors like you, funny enough, are in a great position to trail blaze a bit, you know, to take this great book and bring it slightly kicking and screaming into the modern era a bit.
Because eventually America will get to that position anyway, and quite fast.
DRISCOLL: It's moving fast.
MORGAN: So it's going to be happen.
DRISCOLL: I'm also a guy, I believe the Bible.
MORGAN: It's a good talking point. It's a racy old read, I've got to say, not your average religious book this. Pastor Driscoll, thank you very much.
DRISCOLL: Thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: Coming up, Montel Williams and a very passionate prescription for keeping America great.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONTEL WILLIAMS, "MONTEL": I've probably had this disease for we don't know how long. But over the last say 10 years, I believe it's been misdiagnosed multiple times as other things. And because used to be and still am a pretty heavy weight lifter, I think some people kind of misdiagnosis this as being an injury from lifting weights.
But it is M.S. And I have been living, I think, very well with this disease.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Hollywood, politics, keeping America great, Montel Williams knows about all three of those things. He's a celebrity talk show legend, health advocate, a true political animal. He was also diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 1989. But 13 years, he's still going strong and I'm delighted to say he joins me now. First off, you look terrific. I know people, one in my family, who have got multiple sclerosis. It can be a dreadful, dreadful disease. How are you functioning on a daily basis now?
WILLIAMS: I'm going to tell you, in some ways, but for the grace of God, but also for the fact that I literally had decided -- I had a choice about 12 years ago, either live down to the expectations of doctors who told me I would be in a wheelchair four years; this disease is so devastating, you may as well give up; you've got to stop working.
Or I could live up with to my own expectations and set a course. I'm not trying to say that other people who have this illness haven't worked hard at trying to not succumb. But there's not been enough knowledge out there to help us do so.
I have really embarked on a course that I think is pretty revolutionary. I have had a lot of doctors and people take a look at me and try to figure out why I am doing so well.
MORGAN: It's extraordinary. You walked in here quite boldly. I would never know. If I didn't know the story, I would never have known you had it.
WILLIAMS: If you saw me nine and a half months ago, ten months ago, I would have walked in here and my limp was much more profound. If you saw me a year ago, you would have seen not only my limp but my dragging of my left foot.
MORGAN: What have you done?
WILLIAMS: I have changed my diet. I have changed my -- my eating regimen, my exercise regimen. I make sure that I take medication I'm supposed to take.
You hear -- in this nation today, we hear the political pundits talking about health care, Obamacare, Santorum-care, Romneycare, all this craziness that should just be talking about sick care, because that's the only way America looks at it, is through sick eyes.
We can only try to fix something broken rather than to try to help people understand that if they keep the machine oiled and running well, maybe we don't have to need as much insurance, because we're not going to be such a drain on the system.
So what did I do? When I say I changed my diet, Piers, I'm telling you, I eat differently than anybody on this planet. Seventy five percent of what I am eating is liquefied. Why? Because I found out from the Food and Drug Administration, the National Institute of Health, that vegetables and fruits are natures natural .
So what's the bigots nemesis of a person who has M.S., inflammation? So I need to fight inflammation in my body every day. So this isn't been something I have done for three months. For seven years, my friend -- I finally dialed it in nine months ago and I got it right.
MORGAN: Take me through your kind of daily diet.
WILLIAMS: Let me show you something -- I start off my day -- this is kind of crazy. You didn't know I did this. This right here is something that is the most revolutionary new break through supplement on the planet. It's called Safsolin (ph). It's based on something called linoleic acid, Omega 6 fatty acid, which is something that's very important, that we need to have.
That acid works on the omentum fat around your organs in your gut, which we know is the root of almost all disease. By taking two shots of this a day, a tablespoon twice a day -- I take this twice a day. And sometimes I take it three and four times a day.
This right now is helping me keep my fat around my organs reduced, helping to keep me healthier to start my day.
But then what I do after I take this shot -- because I'm hoping you can do it with me -- I also -- like I told you, I consume about 40 ounces of liquid fruits and vegetables every single day.
MORGAN: All in liquefied form?
WILLIAMS: I do this why? Because I can't eat as much fruits and vegetables by chomping all day. It would take me -- my jaw would be sore eating a bag of spinach. So it makes it easier to drink it.
MORGAN: And it can be any vegetables?
WILLIAMS: Pick any fruits you want and any vegetables. You're going to hear raw foods purists tell you got to separate the fruits from the vegetables.
MORGAN: It's all completely healthy?
WILLIAMS: All completely healthy, all natural.
Take a shot of this, for a second. Just taste that. Cheers, my friend, bang.
MORGAN: That's like an orangey banana smoothy.
WILLIAMS: Right, right. You take this, this is already working on my omentum fat. Now this -- again, I'm drinking four glasses of this a day, every day. That's coconut water.
MORGAN: That's nice.
WILLIAMS: Coconut water, watermelon, pineapple, banana, apple and a bag of baby spinach.
MORGAN: Actually really nice. There's spinach in that?
WILLIAMS: Spinach. I just stealth in the vegetables. What am I doing? I'm working on reducing my inflammation in my body. When you hear all these arguments that are going on right now about this care, that care, why don't we have somebody take charge in America and say, guess what, remember -- in the last four or five days, I have heard almost every single pundit quote a former president.
The biggest quote that we should be using right now when it comes to heath care is to be doing for health care is "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your children."
Do you recognize, if we just people in this country starting their children off this way every day, we could start reducing the fact that we've got not five out of often children are obese.
MORGAN: I totally agree with you.
WILLIAMS: Sorry.
MORGAN: I've got a big thing about diet in America, because I love America, very passionate about America It's been great for me. But when you come here from a European country, for example, the portion sizes, the stuff you put in the food that means it doesn't seem to go off for weeks on end, this can't be right.
Nothing's right about a lot of the food that's being eaten here. And actually you're right if you deal with it at the start of the process, rather than when people get sick. Imagine the savings to America.
WILLIAMS: Guess what, in the last three years, Piers, I've been to the doctor twice. Once a year I go. I fake an MRI every single year to keep track of my illness. But that means that the amount of money and the impact I've had on the American health care system is less than one percent of what I'm putting into it.
So why don't we have a program? I don't care if it's Obamacare, Romneycare, Santorum-care. Why aren't people like myself and yourself, who pay attention to our impact and our health care footprint -- why are we not rewarded in some way with lesser rates?
OK now, I may suffer from cancer five or six from now. But for the next six years in a row, I'm not a drain on anybody's system. Why? Not only do I diet, but I am also exercising every day.
Thank you so much for pointing out the fact that I walked in here.
(CROSS TALK)
WILLIAMS: My friend, I am working out an hour and a half every day. I'm the extreme. But anybody can work out 20 minutes a day and impact the way you feel.
MORGAN: I couldn't agree more. Let's take a little break and come back. I want to get your medical report on America Incorporated.
WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
MORGAN: How are we going to fix America from a business point of view, in the way that you would with your diet?
WILLIAMS: You got it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Back now with my special guest, Montel Williams. Montel, you're a Republican. You have three daughters. What do you make at the moment of this whole political debate which is seen by many to be a strangely anti-female agenda by the Republican party.
WILLIAMS: You know, can I say I'm just disappointed in the entire political process right now, the way we see it, where we have to reduce everything to its lowest basis common denominator. We have to put up as much anger and hatred as we possibly can.
Last week, a young man walked up to me . His name is Gordie Yule. I bought you a copy of his book. He's a good m an. This young man served in Afghanistan, in Iraq, blown up twice, shot five times. When I met him, I had him on my show years ago. He was in a wheelchair, couldn't walk.
He walked up to me in a walker, gave ma a hug. God bless you, my friend. He's Caucasian. I'm black. They don't care. He put his life on the line because he believes in America. OK.
I stop and I think about all those guys that are over there right now. And they're look back at us, and they're saying, you want me to die for you and you can't even communicate with each other respectfully. You can't live up to the dream of our own Constitution, we the people? You got to call people names?
I find that the most despicable, disgusting piece of journalism I have ever seen. And I don't know if there's an apology that's great enough. Because I do have three daughters. And though I may say things about people that I don't like because of this political stance or that political stance, I'm never going after a person's soul. That was somebody's child. How dare you?
MORGAN: You mean the Rush Limbaugh?
WILLIAMS: Yes. And I'm saying --
(CROSS TALK)
MORGAN: What I find extraordinary was, you know, they can talk about all the other incidents that have happened, but for a guy of that experience and that popularity to just calmly call any woman a slut and a prostitute I found absolutely breathtaking.
WILLIAMS: Somebody asked me to comment. And the only thing I could say, abomination. And we can go back and talk about -- listen to all the politicos try to come up with this person said that, that person said that. Nobody said this way about somebody else's child, who was just doing what, exercising their right that they have in the Constitution, the right of free speech to say my opinion is X. We're going to start -- is that what we boil down to now?
WILLIAMS: What seems to have happened is that an American's right to free speech has been abused so much, it seems to me, that people have forgotten that actually it ought to go hand in hand with tolerance. WILLIAMS: What ever happened to the three words -- the first three words of the Constitution, "we the people"? We're in this together. I don't know why, all of a sudden, this country decided that we all have to be against each other.
Listen, I did 22 years in the military, put a uniform on my back, was willing to take a bullet for anybody in this country, period, didn't matter if they were black, white. It didn't matter. And that's what bothers me about this, because we can talk all the trash we want.
Neither one of the Republicans that are running ever put a uniform on. No one -- this is the first time I think in American history that we have a larger percentage of elected official who never put on a uniform, have the nerve to send our children off to die.
We got hawks right now begging to fight Syria? It won't be Santorum's child. It won't be Romney's four boys. It won't be yours or mine. We're going to leave it to that less than one-third of a percent to protect this democracy. And while they're doing so, we have to demonstrate that democracy looks like people who call people's children whores and prostitutes.
We have politicians who have to take shots at people because of the color of their skin. Are you crazy? We're supposed to be setting an example for the world. Are we not? That's the way I feel.
MORGAN: If you served in the military, what is the difference in perspective to those who haven't?
WILLIAMS: How about thank you for your service isn't enough? Words roll off of people's lips too easily. Actions speak way louder.
MORGAN: Hold on. I want to have one more say with you, because we weren't planning to, but I love the passion you're bringing to this.
WILLIAMS: I'm sorry.
MORGAN: I do want to talk to you about how you -- how you would fix America economically as well as all this. But I love the passion you're showing. I think it's what America needs. So we'll come back after another break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the fierce storms tore through the Midwest and south last weekend, taking 40 lives, emergency recovery teams scrambled to respond to devastated communities across 10 states.
Among the relief workers heading into the destruction zone was CNN Hero Tad Agoglia and his First Response Team of America.
AGOGLIA: Let's go ahead and get this debris cleared enough so we can get the grapple claw in here. We got here just a few hours after the tornado struck the community. We have cleared the road. We have provided the light towers.
We have powered up the grocery store. We powered up the gas station to provide the essentials that this community needs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since 2007, Agoglia's team has crisscrossed the country providing recovery assistant to thousands of people at 40 disaster sites for free. This week, they have worked tirelessly for days, restoring services and clearing tons of debris.
AGOGLIA: See if you can grab the claw, actually cut the roof in half.
It's hard for traditional equipment without the claw to actually grab the debris. That's why you need specialty equipment like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you do with it?
AGOGLIA: We remove it from the community. But time is of the essence. There's a lot of people that want to get back in here. They're looking for anything they can salvage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you do this? Why did you choose this road?
AGOGLIA: When I'm watching those supercells go right over these small communities, I want to be here to help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll let you get to work. You do good stuff.
AGOGLIA: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: I'm back again with Montel Williams. Montel, you're very fired up. You're very passionate. Let's get into this whole issue of the way people talk about it in America. Because critics would listen to you in that last segment and say, hang on, when Michele Bachmann was being vocal, for example, about gays -- and she came on this show and was pretty evasive about what she had said before -- you were pretty strong on her. You wanted her to go and kill herself and so on and so forth.
Why do you say to that?
WILLIAMS: It's very interesting, because in the last few days, I don't know why the media decided to deflect Rush Limbaugh's comment and put something I said two and a half years ago on Air America in this context. But let's play it out.
MORGAN: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Ms. Bachmann said in some speech -- and I don't have the exact words, but we should al slit our wrists and form a blood covenant. Those were her words. I was jokingly on the morning of my Air America show -- when she said that, I placed that piece back. I said, if you're going to do that, just move it up about a foot and a half.
MORGAN: Why?
WILLIAMS: How stupid is this? I then said, how stupid is this? We're going to slit because we want to help people be passionate.
Somehow that's been equated to what Rush Limbaugh had to say, which to me is absolutely really part of the problem here. The network that did that is the network that doesn't understand what news is and doesn't understand how to make a reports.
If you can try to find an analogy between those two, I don't know where you're at. So --
MORGAN: My issue with people like Michele Bachmann and others is that if you're going to have an opposition to something, you can do it without saying bigoted things.
I don't want to necessarily call her a bigot for her religious beliefs. I was brought up in a religious family myself. That's not the issue. It's the way you express yourself about the gay community or whatever.
If you start to speak in a bigoted manner, I'm afraid you have stumbled into the position of being a bigot. That's the issue that they don't seem to understand.
WILLIAMS: And that comes back to what I was talking about for a second earlier. For me -- maybe it's hard for people to understand a person who spent 22 years in the military, who feels compelled to now still serve. I don't -- I can't look at another person and not look at them and not think that they're the American I was willing to die for. Gay, straight, or whatever, I'm willing to die for them.
MORGAN: Montel, I've been running a theme on this show, Keeping America Great. I like the positivitiy that that statement has. America remains a great country. What should it be doing to fix itself?
If you were an economic political doctor and you could treat America right now, what are the key things that need to be done?
WILLIAMS: America has been in a national depression. That's why you do salacious things when you're depressed. You overindulge in drugs. You overindulge in spending. You overindulge.
We need to start working at the core of why we had the problem. First off, excuse me, I'm sorry, again, when we flip the paradigm of what a hero was -- I'm not knocking people who have talent, but we're going to have a shortage of engineers. We're going to have a shortage of doctors. We're going to have a shortage of nurses.
America, the leader in this world, is not going to be in that position in four, five years. Let's look at doctors alone, nurses alone. We're not educating them. How do we expect to stay in this position that you say we need to be in or we're in, excellence, if we don't have another generation waiting to fill those positions to create excellence?
MORGAN: Has the aspiration of being a celebrity now taken over almost anything else in life for young people?
WILLIAMS: My friend, there's nothing -- there's not one thing on television that doesn't reward you and try to make you a excellent, from being the garbage man to the rattlesnake biter to the one who bit you, to the -- everybody. I saw housewives in a trailer park advertised the other day.
Really? I'm not knocking people. I'm not trying to say anything about -- look, believe me, I was born in the ghetto of Baltimore. I'm not trying to knock, you know, a person's status in life.
I'm just saying that we're now going to applaud a show, housewives of the trailer park, really? And that's what people are living up to and want to be? Skip school just -- just be what the term was that was thrown out so easily by Rush Limbaugh and get a gig. Make millions in appearance fees?
Piers, come on. People can say to me, Montel, you know what? Shut up, you know. You're just out of touch with America.
I don't believe so. I think there's a core of us who understand. There's a core of Americans who really want a difference. Not the difference of each side is pointing fingers at and yelling at. They want to get back to America that was something that was called the home of the brave, the land of the free, where we all agreed that we were the same. That's where we want to be.
MORGAN: I think you're right, Montel. It's been a real inspiration talking d to you. Thank you very much.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
MORGAN: Thank you for coming in.
