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Nancy Grace
Death Penalty Sought for Grandmother Who Ran 9-Year-Old to Death; Newborn Baby Found Dead in Car Trunk
Aired March 13, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Birmingham suburbs. A 9-year-old girl sneaks a candy bar on the way home on the school bus and fibs about the candy bar to her stepmother and grandmom.
Bombshell tonight. This takes evil stepmother to a whole new level. Nine-year-old Savannah`s dad, stationed in Pakistan, races home when he learns his little girl lying in ICU on life support. Why? Mommy and Grandmother forced the girl to run laps around and around the house while they sit by lounging, runs laps until she literally drops dead.
Tonight, Grandma caught on tape telling the girl`s school bus driver she`ll, quote, "run" the 9-year-old until she, quote, "can`t run no more."
We confirm Stepmommy and Grandma force the girl to carry logs as she runs, the girl`s arms covered in lacerations, the girl finally crawling on all fours, begging to stop. Grandma and Stepmom show no mercy.
And tonight, a secret witness emerges who overhears Grandma and Stepmom at the hospital more concerned about their own cigarette breaks than their child lying in ICU on life support -- over a candy bar!
Death penalty in that jurisdiction, lethal injection or electrocution. But how about a special exception for Stepmommy and Grandma? Shouldn`t they be run to death?!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I`m going to run her. I`m going to run her until she can`t run no more!"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On every level, this girl has been violated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Garrard telling Savannah`s bus driver about her plans to make the girl run.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Run her."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a punishment for eating candy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was so dehydrated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Besides humiliation and degradation and feeling that abuse and shame.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taking (ph) of a candy bar turned into an all-day marathon, so to speak.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She then physically lost enough electrolytes to have a seizure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both women have received death threats in jail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Savannah`s grandmother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Made Savannah run around the outside of this house for three hours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Common sense tells you you stepped over that line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her 65-pound frame reminded them of a marathon runner who had gone throughout an entire race without any water.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I`m going to run her."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just collapsed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I`m going to run her until she can`t run no more!"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Maryland. Grandparents cleaning out their 32-year-old daughter`s car in their own driveway get the shock of a lifetime. In the daughter`s trunk, they find the body of a dead newborn baby. Tonight, who left a baby to die in a cold car trunk?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police remain relatively tight-lipped about this case, but people who live in this community are saying that this was a shocking discovery. Now, according to authorities, they got the call around 6:30 last night. When they got here, they found an infant dead inside the trunk of a car. Now, family members who live here found that newborn when cleaning out the inside of the car.
At this point, it`s unclear how old the child was or how it ended up in the trunk. Neighbors say that the family who lives here is friendly, out and about talking to neighbors, but that they`ve only lived here less than a year. Many we spoke with say they can`t imagine why or how this happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell, tonight. This takes evil stepmommy to a whole new level. Stepmommy and Grandma force a 9-year-old little girl to run until she literally drops dead. Tonight, Grandma caught on tape telling the girl`s school bus driver she`ll, quote, "run" the girl until she, quote, "can`t run no more." And this is all over a candy bar?
While these two grown women sit by lounging, Stepmommy actually on her iPhone and laptop while the girl dies, the 9-year-old girl crawling finally, crawling on all fours, begging this she-bitch from hell to let her stop! The grandmother and the mother show no mercy!
The girl rushed to ICU, on life support. And during this time, Grandma and Mommy are more worried about running outside for cigarette breaks. They`re not even standing by her deathbed! This girl dies with no mother and no grandmother there. The father races home from overseas to finally pull the plug on life support.
We are taking your calls. Let`s go straight out to John DePetro, WPRO host. John, I understand that the state will seek the death penalty on the grandma. Why not Mommy?
JOHN DEPETRO, WPRO: Well, Nancy, they`re saying that she basically just stood by and didn`t do anything to help little Savannah. But make no mistake about it, the grandmother, they will seek the death penalty on her.
GRACE: Well, I`m happy about that. I`m sad that the stepmother, who was like a mother to this child, is not facing the death penalty. In that jurisdiction, these two ladies -- dare I use the word -- would face death by electrocution or lethal injection.
Right now, Grandma on suicide watch. But here`s the deal. Dave Mack, morning talk show host, WAAX, how long after the girl went to ICU was Grandmommy and Stepmommy free before they were arrested? How many days?
DAVE MACK, CLEAR CHANNEL RADIO WAAX (via telephone): They actually took her into ICU, Nancy, on that Friday evening, after the calls. They took her to Birmingham. So they were free until they were arrested on Tuesday morning. So they had four days. They already had all the way through the weekend, up to the point where Robert, the father, made it back from overseas.
They were there as the plug was unpulled (ph). And then the next morning, they were both arrested. The day after that, on Wednesday, the stepmother, Jessica, actually has a baby.
GRACE: OK, you know, Dave Mack, can you clear something up for me? Dave Mack, morning talk show host WAAX. So now the women are on suicide watch? They had several days to kill themselves.
MACK: These are probably --
GRACE: So what, now they`re suicidal because they`re arrested?
MACK: Well, probably, it`s more protective than anything else. There have obviously been plenty of threats against both of them. I mean, this is the most heinous, evil thing you can imagine. You know, you talk about the stepmother from hell, this is the biological grandmother from hell that actually was the drill sergeant, running her, running her, making her carry the sticks, making her crawl.
When she looked up for help from her stepmother who`s sitting on her laptop on the front porch, Granny screams, Don`t you look at her, she`s not going to help you, and making her run, making her run over and over.
So they`re probably not on a suicide watch as much as this protective custody, and they`re being held in the health side of things because of the stepmother having a baby. That`s why she`s actually in the medical wing.
GRACE: You know, I`m looking at that little witch picture and -- if you can go back to that, Liz? My little girl, Dave Mack, nothing would do except that she be a, quote, "sneaky witch" for Halloween.
MACK: Yes, I`ve got two daughters, Nancy --
GRACE: And I`m just --
MACK: -- and it`s disgusting. It is despicable beyond belief to think of a 65-pound 9-year-old, who`s already been through hell on earth -- when you look at this child`s background, her own mother was abusive, and that`s why she wasn`t with her biological mother.
This stepmother was no kind of a mother, either. She`s chain smoking cigarettes the day before she gives birth. The grandmother is living there in this home with this messed-up group of neighbors that won`t even intervene, even though they saw Savannah crawling in the front yard, the eyewitnesses. And I`m putting them in quotes.
I don`t know what kind of people couldn`t intervene seeing a 9-year- old crawling and begging. How sick do you have to be to watch that? I think there`s some implications there that they didn`t step in because, really, the only charge on the mother -- they`re charging her with felony murder because she didn`t stop it.
The charge for capital murder -- and the reason District Attorney Jimmie Harp is saying he`s going after the death penalty is because this grandmother from hell was the drill sergeant everybody dreads in the Marine Corps. I mean, she`s stomping behind this girl, making her go, making her go over and over.
If you can just picture this in your head, this 46-year-old chain- smoking chug (ph) of a grandma making this girl run to her death. And nobody, nobody willing to help!
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Eleanor Odom, senior attorney, death-penalty-qualified prosecutor, John Manuelian, defense lawyer, L.A., Pilar Prinz, defense attorney, Atlanta.
Eleanor Odom, I`m so proud that authorities will seek the death penalty on the ringleader. However, I`m concerned that the mother, the stepmother, is not facing the death penalty. She absolutely qualifies, Eleanor.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Oh, yes, she does, Nancy. I`m a little concerned, too. But think about it this way. The prosecution probably looked at the evidence, decided it was stronger against the grandmother. And I wonder, too -- sometimes prosecutors are thinking, when you`ve got co-defendants, will one turn on the other? So maybe they`re thinking of some evidence that way.
GRACE: OK, Manuelian, give me your best defense for the grandma.
JOHN MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK. First of all, let me tell you, Nancy, I have a daughter, and these actions are deplorable. But I`m going to tell you that, legally speaking --
GRACE: But! There`s always a but with you, isn`t there!
MANUELIAN: -- I believe the charges are overcharged. There`s always a but. Well, legally speaking, I think it is an overcharge. I don`t think there`s intent --
GRACE: Why?
MANUELIAN: -- to kill this person. If you ask the -- yes --
GRACE: Really?
MANUELIAN: I don`t think --
GRACE: So when the girl --
MANUELIAN: I don`t think there`s any intent.
GRACE: -- is crawling --
MANUELIAN: I think it was reckless --
GRACE: -- on all fours, Pilar, crawling on all fours, they`re forcing her to carry logs that are so heavy, her arms are covered in cuts where the logs dug down -- and she looks up at the stepmother, and the grandmother says, Don`t look at her! She`s not going to help you.
OK, now, Pilar, you`re a mother. Explain to me why you think this is not a death penalty case.
PILAR PRINZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it`s shocking. And yes, I`m a mother. I would never do this to my child. But here`s why. This is why. Because the state has to prove that this woman knew or reasonably should have known that her actions would lead to death. And that is going to be a very, very hard burden.
GRACE: Oh. That`s a really good point because Dr. Ann Contrucci, isn`t it true that the whole reason they were allegedly incensed over the candy bar is because this girl was not well? She had a bladder condition, where sweets would make her urinate more often. And these two were too worried they might have to change her bed sheets at night.
Hello! I`ve been changing bed sheets now for over four years. And guess what? I don`t mind. So Dr. Ann, isn`t it true they knew this girl was already ill.
DR. ANN CONTRUCCI, PHYSICIAN: I mean, Nancy, again, the crime fitting the punishment -- the kid had a candy bar. So what? And I don`t know where they get this the sweets would make her urinate more because that doesn`t make any sense.
I mean, just the fact -- and to say -- I mean, I don`t know if there was intent or not. I`m not a lawyer. But anybody with any common sense knows you can`t run a 9-year-old for three hours carrying -- and I think they said up to 15 pounds. That`s a quarter of her weight. If she`s an average-sized kid, she`s around 60-ish pounds. That`s a quarter of her weight extra that she`s running around.
And the fact of the matter is that this wasn`t even the middle of the summertime. So it`s not like it was really hot. So she had to be so overexerted to lose that much salt and to sweat that much. This is just ridiculous! It`s so heinous.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad. What more can you tell me, specifically about grandma being caught on tape bragging to the school bus driver that she was going to mistake the girl run until, quote, "she can`t run no more"?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, this could be the best piece of evidence that the state has. They say that the day that Savannah collapsed and died that the grandmother actually got on the school bus, was talking to the school bus driver. These buses are all equipped with surveillance cameras as a safety measure. And those cameras actually allegedly captured the grandmother telling the bus driver, "I`m going to run her, I`m going to run her until she can`t run no more."
GRACE: When we come back, we`re joined by the ex of the bio mom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Common sense tells you you stepped over that line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was the primary caretaker and should have stepped in to stop this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just collapsed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I`m going to run her. I`m going to run her until she can`t run no more!"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This all started with 9-year-old Savannah Hardin eating a candy bar that she wasn`t supposed to.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors say there`s surveillance video of Garrard telling Savannah`s bus driver about her plans to make the girl run as a punishment for eating candy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I`m going to run her. I`m going to run her until she can`t run no more!"
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Savannah ran around the house for three hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The taking of a candy bar turned into an all-day marathon, so to speak.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was so dehydrated that her sodium level and electrolytes had dropped to the point that, really, her 65-pound frame reminded them of a marathon runner who had gone through an entire race without any water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 9-year-old child is actually run to death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. This 9-year-old little girl forced to run until she died. Grandma now caught on tape in the school bus. Grandma goes on and starts bragging -- there`s Grandma -- that she`s going to run the girl until she, quote, "can`t run no more."
To Woody Tripp, former police commander. Woody, how common is it to catch people on tape on the school bus?
WOODROW TRIPP, FMR. POLICE COMMANDER: Well, Nancy, I think you`ve seen it -- we`ve seen it time and time again now, you know, the whole school bus thing. We continue to see video of bus drivers being assaulted, parents assaulting students. So this is now a norm.
And for anyone to get on a bus at this point, day and time and not think that they`re being videoed, they`re absolutely crazy. She got caught.
GRACE: OK. So Grandma`s defense lawyers come out, saying she`s innocent, and quote, "Her family will continue to be united in their fight for justice." Please! Their fight for justice? What about justice for this little girl?
Joining me right now, special guest Patrick Blackwelder. This is the bio mom`s ex, who lived with the little girl for a period of time. Mr. Blackwelder, thank you for being with us.
PATRICK BLACKWELDER, BIOLOGICAL MOTHER`S EX-BOYFRIEND (via telephone): Savannah was with her mom and myself for, you know, a number of years, about four-and-a-half years. And upon her and I breaking up, she moved out on her own (ph). She hadn`t sustained a job the time we were together.
So she was trying to work this job and that job, trying to make ends meet -- and not justifying that, but when Savannah went to kindergarten, started kindergarten, her performance in kindergarten was very poor. Her attendance was very poor. And I think that summer, when she went to kindergarten or 1st grade, when she went to Alabama for, you know, the father`s (ph) summer, she didn`t (ph) really realize where she should be and where she was at.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 9-year-old girl allegedly run to death by her own grandmother and stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine-year-old Savannah Hardin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 9-year-old child is actually run to death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Savannah ran around the house for three hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All because she lied about eating a candy bar on the school bus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eating a candy bar that she wasn`t supposed to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She then physically lost enough electrolytes to have a seizure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surveillance video of Garrard telling Savannah`s bus driver about her plan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I`m going to run her. I`m going to run her until she can`t run no more!"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Straight out to Ellie Jostad. Ellie, what can you tell me about a secret hospital witness that has emerged?
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. There is a woman who doesn`t want her name out there, but she says that she was in the ICU at the children`s hospital in Birmingham at the same time Grandmother and Stepmom were there.
She says that they were not keeping vigil by Savannah`s bedside while she was lying there, dying on life support. She says they were more concerned about getting their smoke breaks, and were in and out, going outside to smoke cigarettes. She says she never saw the grandmother show any remorse, never saw her cry, never saw her upset.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder, Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, weigh in.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, you know, this little girl is a victim of sadism and indifference. You know, survival for Savannah was ultimately about crawling, crying and begging for her life. But survival for these two sadistic women is invoking the U.S. Constitution, just as every unrepentant killer has done before throughout our history!
But where was the Constitution for Savannah? Nancy, the death penalty is about punishment and prevention. And if this will send a message in this post-Casey Anthony era, where we see so many parents trying -- murdering their children because they think that they can get away with it, then I think it`s perfectly appropriate to prosecute these women to the full extent of the law and to dispatch them to the hell from which they emerged as soon as is humanly possible!
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Take a look at Grandma and Mommy, Grandma described as the drill sergeant from hell. I`ve got a few other words for her myself.
To Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "Only the Truth." You know, the number of women on death row is extremely small compared to the number of men. I don`t see a problem with both of these two getting the death penalty. What about you, Pat?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, Nancy, I certainly don`t see a problem with Grandma because she premeditatedly did this. She said to that bus driver, I`m going to torture this child until she, basically, dies, until she drops from physical -- something physically wrong, until she collapses. That`s premeditation.
GRACE: Well, viewers, your voice was heard. The Etowah County district attorney, Jimmie Harp, seeking the death penalty in this case on Grandma. But Mr. Harp, what about Mommy?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A very tragic situation.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This all started with 9-year-old Savannah Hardin eating a candy bar that she wasn`t supposed to.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Prosecutors say there`s also surveillance video of Gerard telling Savannah`s bus driver about her plans to make the girl run as a punishment for eating candy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m going to run her -- I`m going to run her until she can`t run no more.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taking of a candy bar turned into an all-day marathon, so to speak.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She made Savannah run around the outside of this house for three hours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Common sense tells you you`ve stepped over that line.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Hardin and Gerard`s attorney say Hardin should be home with her newborn baby, who was born just a week ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will be your worst nightmare, would it not be?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The judge will consider that and make that ruling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: The grandma goes on the school bus, yanks the little girl off, and gets caught on video stating, I`m going to run her until she, quote, "can`t run no more." And she does just that. She runs the little girl, just a 9-year-old little girl, forcing her to carry 10 to 15 pounds of logs that dig into her skin, her arms covered in laceration at autopsy.
The little girl on all fours, begging, begging to stop. When she looks up at stepmommy, stepmommy says, don`t -- grandmommy says, don`t look at her. She`s not going to help you.
We are taking your calls. Sleepworth in South Carolina, hi, what`s your question?
SLEEPWORTH, CALLER FROM SOUTH CAROLINA: I want to know whether you found the law to have this woman to be killed. I understand it was a freak accident, but I just don`t think that the death penalty should be on this lady. And how --
GRACE: Well, that`s good to know, Sleepworth in South Carolina.
SLEEPWORTH: My question exactly, Nancy, is how could she seek the death penalty? What evidence does she have to seek the death penalty? It wasn`t intentional.
GRACE: OK, I`ll tell you that, Sleepworth in South Carolina. A crime, a death, a murder must be, A, for example, extremely heinous. In some jurisdictions, if the murder is on a child under 12. For your knowledge, I don`t know if you went to law school or not, but intent to commit a crime can be formed in the twinkling of an eye, it`s that fast.
Here, grandma and mommy knew the child was ill, that she had a health condition. They ran the child over three hours, carrying logs until she died. They made their intention known by stating, I`m going to run her until she can`t run, quote, "no more." And even when the child was crawling and begging, they continued to make her run.
To Ellie Jostad, how did they make the child continue to go even when she was crawling on all fours?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the prosecutor says that the grandma was urging her on this whole time. He called her a drill sergeant from hell. He was saying get -- she kept saying, get going, nobody told you you could stop. Kept prodding her along, even when Savannah was begging for this running to stop.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Jessica in Virginia. Hi, Jessica. What`s your question?
JESSICA, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy. My question is, if this girl was running around the house for three hours, there wasn`t one neighbor, there wasn`t one child, there wasn`t anybody that seen her running around, and clearly this is a pattern that it`s been happening more than once, so nobody in the family has reported her being neglected, you know, abused before or anything like that?
GRACE: Jessica in Virginia, you`re so right-on, and yes, the neighbors did see it. In their defense, some of them say they didn`t realize what was going on, they just saw her out running. Others, I believe, did see what was going on and nothing was done.
I want to go back to Patrick Blackwelder, the biomom`s ex who lived with the little girl.
Patrick, you were trying to tell me that the little girl was taken away from her mother because she made bad grades, but that`s not grounds for a mother to lose custody. When you were living with Savannah under the roof with her biological mother, how did her mother treat her?
PATRICK BLACKWELDER, MOTHER`S EX-BOYFRIEND, LIVED WITH 9-YEAR-OLD GIRL IN PAST: You know, she didn`t work, so I worked two jobs. They were home all day. We also have a son together. So she was always at home with our son and her daughter. And from what I see, she -- her biological mother treated her fairly, treated her kindly. Once she and I split up, kind of everything went out the window.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, joining us out of New York. Nobody seemingly loved the little girl. You know, yesterday, on the playground, when I went to go pick the children up, I saw a little boy with a cut on his face, and it bothered me so badly, I turned around and went back in and found the principal and said, look, this is probably nothing, but every time I see this boy, there`s something wrong with him. You need to look into it. This was because he had a scrape on his face. But the last time I saw him, he was lethargic and I think he had another scrape.
How can everybody stand by? And I`m talking about the neighbors, too. Neighbors, relatives, the mother, for Pete`s sake. Nobody helped the child. With this grandmother getting on the bus saying, I`m going to run her until she can`t run no more. The bus driver didn`t report it. Nobody did a damned thing.
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Nancy, it`s disgraceful. If you see something, say something. That doesn`t just apply to terrorism. We all have a responsibility to take care of our little ones. And as adults, we`re the ones who are accountable for their well-being. There is no excuse, ever, for what was done to this little girl and for nobody intervening. If you see a child being abused, say something.
GRACE: So Dave Mack, talk show host, WAAX, joining us out of Alabama. The Etowah County DA Jimmy Harp steps up to the plate and hits a homerun. He`s seeking the death penalty on grandma. But I just checked it out again, they are on the medical unit. Both of these ladies claiming they`re going to commit suicide. Blah, blah. They had nearly a whole week to kill themselves, and it wasn`t until they get arrested for the 9-year-old`s heinous, torturous death that they suddenly feel suicidal.
I don`t buy it. They`re just in the medical unit of the jail getting special treatment, Dave Mack.
DAVE MACK, MORNING TALK SHOW HOST, CLEAR CHANNEL RADIO WAAX: I think you`re dead on. They`re getting not only special treatment, but they`re also being separated from anybody else in the county jail, because, obviously, this is a huge story. Everybody knows what`s going on, even though it`s all alleged at this point. They`ve got a lot of enemies already that are right there. So by separating them and keeping them in a medical unit, they can actually keep a better eye on them. If they want to call it a suicide watch, that`s fine.
But stepmother did just have a baby. And so she`s actually there for medical reasons, although in the real world, outside of jail, if you have a baby, they try to send you home within a day or two.
GRACE: They absolutely send you straight home. I was back to work in four weeks. Update, headline, Dave Mack. So now these two claim their suicidal after they get arrested.
Quick break. We are taking your calls.
Last night we featured a story about a male porn star turned math teacher in Miami-Dade`s Nautilus Middle School. The Florida Education Practices Commission will allow Shawn Loftis to apply for a teaching certificate. But Miami-Dade School Board says they will not re-hire him.
Everybody, the Nancy Grace Family Album is back, showcasing your photos from iReport. California friends, the Sheridans, dad Trevor, mom, army vet, Vassa -- Vasna, love taking their son, Kenny, to the local pond to see the duck, the zoo, the beach.
Share your family photos with us through our iReport family album. Go to hlnTV.com/Nancygrace and click on "Nancy`s Family Album."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The horrible discovery. The mother`s parents called Calvert County sheriff`s deputies when they discovered the remains of a newborn or fetus in a compact Ford Sedan parked outside their daughter`s trailer home in the 5400 block of Halloween Point Road in rural Calvert County. Sheriff Mike Evans is investigating.
SHERIFF MIKE EVANS, CALVERT COUNTY: For some reason, they were cleaning out this girl`s car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It`s been sitting there a while.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Neighbors here said the car had not been moved from its parking spot besides the trail for weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just been sitting there. Nobody has used it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Evans said it will take time to find out what happened.
EVANS: The body is currently at the medical examiner`s office and detectives are waiting for the final report. But due to the decomposed state of the fetus or newborn, the following report may not be available until mid-April.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Meanwhile, the trailer is home to toddler twins and an elementary-aged boy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Grandparents open their grown daughter`s trunk for the shock of a lifetime. A dead baby`s body and their daughter, 32-year-old`s trunk.
Joining me right now, Sheriff Mike Evans, Calvert County Sheriff`s Office. Sheriff, thank you for being with us.
EVANS: Sure, Nancy.
GRACE: Sheriff, so often the deaths of children in the legal system, and I`ve prosecuted for 10 years in inner city Atlanta. High, high volume of murder. And I`ve noticed all around me, when the victim, the murder victim or the abuse victim was a child, somehow the sentences ended up being lighter.
I also noticed that child murders and mistreatment could go undetected for years and years. Children really don`t have a voice, but your people are investigating this full-on, Sheriff.
Sheriff Mike Evans, what did your people find when they got to the scene?
EVANS: They found that a fetus or newborn had been discovered in the trunk of this vehicle and it was wrapped in a plastic bag.
GRACE: What was the sex of the baby?
EVANS: I don`t even think we know yet. None of the officers on the scene -- maybe the autopsy will reveal that, we haven`t been told.
GRACE: Well, you know what, that`s actually very wise. A lot of people, you may be stunned that Sheriff Evans doesn`t know the sex of the baby, but, Sheriff, you`ve stated it was wrapped up, correct?
EVANS: That`s correct.
GRACE: Was it clear plastic?
EVANS: I don`t know that.
GRACE: Well, if the child is wrapped up, the sheriffs would have had to touch the plastic to unwrap it, very possibly ruining fingerprint evidence.
And Sheriff Mike Evans, you did a wise thing. I`m glad you can`t tell me if it`s a boy or a girl, because that would have meant your people had unwrapped the bag, possibly destroying fingerprint evidence. Where is the wrapper the child was in right now, Sheriff Evans?
EVANS: It`s in our property room.
GRACE: So I assume it`s going to the crime lab for identification?
EVANS: Yes, ma`am. It will be processed. Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: To the Stacey Newman, on the story. Stacey, what can you tell me?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, as you just heard in that press conference, these grandparents were cleaning out their daughter`s car. She`s already a mother of three. When they noticed the newborn baby in the trunk of that car. Now, also interestingly, neighbors say the car had been sitting out there for weeks.
GRACE: Back to Sheriff Mike Evans. What type of vehicle was it?
EVANS: It was a Ford Focus, a four-door, a compact car.
And had they -- did the daughter, the 32-year-old daughter, and the -- did she live with them?
EVANS: No, that was the daughter`s residence. That was the mother of this baby`s residence.
GRACE: OK. Why were they cleaning out the car?
EVANS: The daughter was not there. She had been gone for some time and the car had been sitting there at least for 30 days.
GRACE: Really? So this child could have been dead for over 30 days, Sheriff?
EVANS: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Question, Sheriff Mike Evans, joining us, Prince Frederic, Maryland. Sheriff, where did the daughter go?
EVANS: I cannot disclose that, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. But you know, correct?
EVANS: We know. Yes.
GRACE: Sheriff, why did she say she was leaving town?
EVANS: That`s still part of the investigation, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Sheriff Mike Evans joining us live.
Clark Goldband, what more can you tell me about the story?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, I can follow up on that question you just asked the sheriff a few moments ago. According to reports, the mom had undergone a psychiatric evaluation and was undergoing psychiatric treatment, and according to reports, that may be why she was not home at the time.
GRACE: OK. Hold on a moment, Clark Goldband. Did she start her, quote, "psychiatric treatment" before or after the dead baby`s found in her trunk?
GOLDBAND: According to reports, she may have been hospitalized prior to the child being found in the trunk.
GRACE: I`d like to find that out. What about it, Woody Tripp?
WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: There are so many unanswered questions in this, Nancy. You know, we have parents who are cleaning out a vehicle. Did the parents know that she was pregnant? Did the parents see the child prior to? Has anyone asked a question as to this child?
So there`s a lot of unanswered questions here, but it will really come down, in this case, in simplistic terms, DNA. I mean, it will be very easy to determine if, in fact, she is the mother of the child. You know, laboratory analysis will reveal a lot of this.
GRACE: So, Sheriff Mike Evans, did the grandparents not know that she was pregnant?
EVANS: They didn`t know.
NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All right. Right there. Eleanor Odom, John Manuelian, Pilar Prince, here we go.
Eleanor Odom, she hid her pregnancy. Now the baby is found dead in her car trunk and she skips town. I guess she isn`t in treatment right now. Weigh in.
ELEANOR ODOM, FELONY PROSECUTOR, DEATH PENALTY QUALIFIED: Yes. Nancy, at the very least, you have concealing the death of another. And at the worst, you have murder. So there is a lot to look at. But at any rate, she did conceal the baby or somebody concealed it, and that`s the very least that they`re going to be guilty of.
GRACE: Manuelian?
JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: State of mind`s going to be very important. Was she crazy before, was she crazy ever? That`s going to be key in this case.
GRACE: Really? You sure throw the term "crazy" around pretty easily. It just rolls off your tongue, John Manuelian.
Pilar Prinz, she -- and she`s not been charged yet, but whoever killer is knew enough to put the baby in plastic, to hide the baby, they couldn`t tell what sex the baby was, so it`s apparently wrapped in something first, put the baby in the trunk, lock the trunk, and leave.
So there was enough sense for self-protection, but now we`re hearing that the mom is in psychiatric treatment. Let`s hear your side, Pilar.
PILAR PRINZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, I`d like to know, who was the last person who saw this baby alive. We don`t even have that question answered yet. Was it this woman? Was she already checked in for psychiatric treatment? Does anybody else live in this mobile home with her? So I think right now there are more questions than there are answers.
GRACE: Leslie Austin, psychotherapist out of New York, Leslie, the fact that she hid the baby. If she is, in fact, the killer, doesn`t that suggest to you she knew right from wrong?
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Probably. Look, proving insanity in a case like this, even based on the preliminary acts, would be very, very difficult. Likely, she was distraught or not in her right mind. Even if she got treatment, that doesn`t constitute insanity, which would justify an insanity defense.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, weigh defense.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: There is absolutely no excuse or justification for the concept of disposable children. And that`s what this entire show has been about. It`s been about children that nobody cared about. Nobody cared for. And it`s only in the aftermath that people are even talking about it. These are people that need to be dealt with, they need to be dealt with harshly by the law.
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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The mother`s parents called Calvert County sheriff`s deputies when they have discovered the remains of a newborn fetus. Neighbors here said the car had not been been moved from this its parking spot behind the trailer for weeks.
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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: According to authorities, when they got here, they found an infant dead inside the trunk of a car. Now family members who live here found that newborn when cleaning out the inside of the car. At this point, it is unclear how old the child was, or how it ended up in the trunk. Neighbors say that the family who lived here is friendly, and about, talking to neighbors, but that they`ve only lived here less than a year. Many we`ve spoke with said they can`t imagine why or how this --
GRACE: Pat Brown, criminal profiler. Pat, come on. Two and two equals four. Weigh in.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": Well, I look at this as she put the baby in the trunk and then she goes into the mental institution for insanity plea. I mean we see this over and over. And the other question she has three other children. Who is watching those three other children. I heard she had a boyfriend. Doesn`t the boyfriend know where the baby went to or what happened in this case? Something is really, really screwy here.
GRACE: You know to Sheriff Mike Evans, where are the other children.
EVANS: The children are in care of a relative.
GRACE: You know, Sheriff Evans, the baby I`m sure is having an autopsy done right now. Has the autopsy been completed?
EVANS: No. It should be complete by mid April.
GRACE: Mid April.
EVANS: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Why?
EVANS: It just takes time, that`s what -- we sent the -- that`s the report they`ve given us, by mid April, they`ll have all that everything they could find out about the baby, the cause of death.
GRACE: To Dr. Ann Contrucci, physician, Atlanta, Dr. Ann, your specialty is children. How will they be able to determine cause of death, Dr. Ann, and can they tell if the child was born --stillborn?
DR. ANN CONTRUCCI, PEDIATRICIAN: Well, again, I think it`s already been said, this case has more questions than answers. But I think that`s one reason it`s going to take so long, The decomposition of the body if it`s been there for up to potentially 30 days. It is very, very troubling. Everything about this case is as troubling as the previous case.
GRACE: Well, the child was an infant when it lost its life. If you have information, 410-535-2800. Our duty is to protect the least of these, including tiny infants, when their mother will not protect them.
Let`s stop and remember Sergeant James "Jimmy" McNeil, 28, Glazed Bay, Nova Scotia, killed Afghanistan. On the fourth tour, Master Corporal of the Year award. Southwest Asia Service medal. General Campaign star. He served 10 years. Had a smile that lit up a room, loved time with fiance`s daughter, Eva. Baseball, rugby, hockey, favorite team, the Montreal Canadiens. Leaves behind grieving parents, Selma and Jimmy (INAUDIBLE), a fiance, Laura.
James McNeil, a true hero.
Thank you to our guests but specially to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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