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Nancy Grace
Texas Infant Stolen 8 Years Ago Found
Aired March 16, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Houston. Mommy goes to pick up her 8-month-old baby boy only to find he is gone, both baby and baby-sitter vanished. The baby-sitter on the run with the infant child for eight years.
Bombshell tonight. In the last 72 hours, in the middle of the night, baby M found alive, living a double life, baby-sitter and baby 150 miles from home. The boy doesn`t know his name, his age, or his real mother. He was headed home until claims raised. Was Mommy part of the kidnap scheme?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New development...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bit break in the case...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just until this week...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a case that seemed to fall through the cracks until now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When police got a call...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know he`s here. I know he`s OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Auboni Champion was shocked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overwhelmed because it`s been eight years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives say the woman accused of taking the boy...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Came back, he was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn`t saying much about his whereabouts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love him very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you figured she`s trustworthy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then I went back and they were gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You must have been panic-stricken, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just hard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say that male child is 8 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To deal with all this in such a little bit of time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The same age the 8-month-old baby would be today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was like I knew this family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators in San Augustine County arrested the woman caring for Champion`s son.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m hoping he`s alive and OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they both disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They all would never give up. Never give up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a shocking report out of Connecticut, a tiny 6- month-old baby found in a dark basement crawlspace behind closed doors, still strapped down in a carseat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be a day care inspection investigators wouldn`t soon forget. Authorities say they received a tip about possible overcrowding at a day care facility, the home of 54-year-old caregiver Catalina Reyes (ph). Out of nowhere, the inspector allegedly hears crying behind the door of a basement crawlspace. What he was about to find truly shocking. Nothing could prepare him for this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Mommy goes to pick up her 8-month-old baby boy only to find he is gone. Baby-sitter on the run with the infant for over eight years on the lam. In the last 72 hours, in the middle of the night, baby M found alive, the baby-sitter living a double life.
Straight out to Dan X. McGraw, Web editor, "Houston Chronicle." Dan McGraw, thank you for being with us. How was the baby taken in the first place?
DAN X. MCGRAW, "HOUSTON CHRONICLE" (via telephone): Nancy, thanks for having me. Pretty much this case goes back to November 2004, where the mother left it -- left the baby, the 8-month-old baby, with the baby- sitter, Krystle Tanner. And she returned home after -- after a day, it sounds like, and the baby was gone. The baby-sitter, Krystle Tanner, was - - just abruptly disappeared, vanished. And relatives didn`t know where she was or where she went to.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Ellie Jostad. What did the mom do? Because right now, the baby has been found. In the last 72 hours in the middle of the night, they find baby M., now 8 years old. But now suspicion on the mom. Was Mommy actually part of the kidnap plot?
Notice, Ellie, the baby has not -- the child has not been reunited with the mother yet. So tell me, what did the mother do when she first learned her baby was kidnapped?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, here`s the problem with how this case may have fallen through the cracks. The mom now says that she started a Web site for her missing boy, that she handed out flyers. But there was never an Amber Alert, and this case never proceeded to charges.
And that is because, reportedly, police say, they could never pinpoint when exactly the mother says she noticed that the boy was missing. So that was a big problem right from the beginning. There are also reports that the mother and the biological father were uncooperative with police, which is why the case was closed.
GRACE: And back to you, Dan McGraw, editor, "Houston Chronicle." Dan, what condition was the boy in? Now eight years later, in a nighttime raid, they find baby M still alive. This is a miracle. This practically never happens.
What was the condition of the child? I understand he doesn`t know his name. He doesn`t know his true age. He knows nothing about his real mother and father. Help me out, Dan McGraw.
MCGRAW: Nancy, the kid is doing all right. The kid is fine. He`s physically fine. He`s adjusting well to his foster family right now, according to CPS.
He does have some of the things that you mentioned. He doesn`t know his real age. He believes he`s a 6-year-old. He doesn`t know his real name. A lot of that stems from Krystle Tanner allegedly called him by several names, including the name "Dirty," or the nickname "Dirty."
He doesn`t know how to read. He barely knows how to write. He`s obviously missing some -- some learning skills that he would have picked up by now. But physically, he`s doing fine.
GRACE: Well, I`m stunned. How did they lead a double life all this time? Also joining us there live, Joe Gomez, KTRH. Joe, I don`t understand it. How did this baby-sitter pass off a complete double life? This child clearly didn`t have use of a Social Security number, wasn`t -- couldn`t be enrolled in schools without the proper information. Didn`t her relatives notice, Hey, there`s a new baby on the scene?
JOE GOMEZ, KTRH: It`s very strange, Nancy. I mean, police did find, you know, this child in a different home than the baby-sitter. Perhaps she has some kind of an organized, you know, group worked out that took care of the kid on, you know, certain occasions.
Now, what`s really shocking, Nancy, is that the baby boy would actually call the baby-sitter "Mama." I mean, he was so convinced that this was his mother! Keep in mind, he was taken when he was only 8 months old, allegedly. So he was raised all this time, basically, practically, since he was a toddler, with this woman. I mean, that`s -- that`s amazing to me!
GRACE: Joining me right now -- let`s see a map, Liz. What happened is San Augustine is about 165 miles northeast, Houston, Texas. Joining me right now, special guest Chief Deputy Gary Cunningham from the San Augustine sheriff`s office.
Chief, thank you for being with us. How did this all happen to start with? Were you on the force when the baby was originally taken?
GARY CUNNINGHAM, CHIEF DEPUTY, SAN AUGUSTINE CO. SHERIFF`S OFFICE (via telephone): No, ma`am. I`m actually from the Houston area. I was serving in the Pasadena Police Department at the time.
GRACE: Wow. So you`re a vet in the law business. Tell me, what has transpired?
CUNNINGHAM: Well, this matter came to the attention of the San August County sheriff`s office in January, 2012, whenever CPS -- Child Protective Services agency -- asked the sheriff`s office to conduct a missing persons investigation in connection with a CPS investigation that was brought to their attention.
They were trying to locate an unidentified child supposedly, or allegedly, in the custody of Krystle Tanner. We initiated an investigation and -- which in turn led us to the original case back in 2004 at the Houston Police Department.
We sort of tied all the pieces of the puzzle together, presented a case to our district attorney here in San Augustine County, who directed us to seek a warrant charging Krystle Tanner with kidnapping.
GRACE: You know what`s incredible to me, Chief Cunningham, is the way this was finally pieced together. I know it`s only 150 miles apart, but how did you -- how did police put together this child missing eight years ago, this infant boy, baby M, to the child found with the baby-sitter, Krystle Tanner, eight years later?
CUNNINGHAM: Well, given the nature of both investigations, both the Child Protective Services investigation and our investigation, in which we -- both agencies received just fabricated, misleading information from Krystle Tanner concerning the identity and whereabouts of the missing child, and then information that child Protective Services through their resources uncovered.
They`re -- I`ve got to give credit to CPS. They`re the ones that actually came up with a potential identity of this...
GRACE: Connection...
CUNNINGHAM: ... of this child.
GRACE: OK, you know what? I`m glad to hear CPS has done something right. Let`s give them the credit because, usually, we are on their case about ignoring children until they`re dead. In this case, this baby found, now an 8-year-old boy, can`t read, can`t write, doesn`t know his name, doesn`t know his parents. Nothing. But here`s the good news. Baby M is alive eight years later.
Chief Cunningham, was there a BOLO -- be on the look-out -- for Krystle Tanner?
CUNNINGHAM: No, we always knew where Krystle Tanner resided here in San Augustine County. We didn`t really feel that there was any danger for fleeing from the area. And we moved very quickly...
GRACE: Well, I don`t understand. Was there a lookout on her from the kidnap of the baby eight years ago?
CUNNINGHAM: No, ma`am. There was not. There was never a charge formalized in...
GRACE: Whoa!
CUNNINGHAM: ... Harris County or Houston. So there`s officially...
GRACE: OK, that`s crazy! That`s crazy. I don`t understand that.
Ellie Jostad, Dan McGraw, Joe Gomez -- let`s put them in boxes, please, so I can see them. I need to find out, Dan McGraw, why the baby- sitter was never charged with kidnap eight years ago, and here Krystle Tanner is living in plain sight, 150 miles away eight years later with a child. Help me out, McGraw.
MCGRAW: It stems (ph) down to a clarification that the prosecutors in Harris County asked that police get (ph). And it centered around what the actual date that the kid was kidnapped. And according to prosecutors and police, the mother couldn`t definitively tell them what day the kid was kidnapped. And because of that, they couldn`t...
GRACE: Whoa. OK. Something stinks. Something stinks. Unleash the lawyers, Jennifer Smetters, Chicago, Darrell Cohen, defense attorney, Atlanta, Randy Kessler, defense attorney, Atlanta.
All right, Kessler. Tee it up.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There are a lot of questions to answer. What was Mommy`s relationship with Tanner? What was Mommy`s relationship with Dad? Why is Mommy not sleeping outside of where the child`s being held right now? There`s a lot more. And I`m glad they`re not exposing the child to Mom...
GRACE: Well, there she is. There she is on the morning shows talking about how excited she is to see her baby.
Jennifer Smetters, I think the mom needs to be questioned about the initial disappearance of this child pronto.
JENNIFER SMETTERS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely. You know, and this is pure speculation, Nancy, but I`m questioning what frame of mind Mom and Dad were in at the time. She couldn`t recall the exact date of the child`s disappearance. But we cannot...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Did I hear you say "frame of mind"? Because she`s had eight years to figure it out...
SMETTERS: Oh, no. Absolutely...
GRACE: ... and get her frame of mind straight, Jennifer!
SMETTERS: At the time...
GRACE: Frame of mind?
SMETTERS: ... of the time of disappearance -- at the time of the disappearance, police, local authorities are saying that they were uncooperative. So...
GRACE: OK...
SMETTERS: ... what is going -- that is a problem, but it`s also a problem for the police to not look for this child. The child existed. The child is missing.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Dr. Bill Lloyd, board-certified surgeon, pathologist. Isn`t it true in the hospital, babies only get footprints? They don`t get fingerprints, or do they and I just don`t know about it?
DR. BILL LLOYD, SURGEON AND PATHOLOGIST: No, it`s usually footprints, and oftentimes, a small sample of blood that can be used down the road for DNA testing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators in San Augustine County arrested the woman caring for Champion`s son eight years ago when they both disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Came back, he was gone. We love him very much, and we never gave up. That`s something I will never give up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: San Augustine officials say for the last eight years, 26-year-old Krystle Tanner has been evading the law.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overwhelmed because it`s been eight years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Concerning an allegation or report of negligent supervision of her children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a case that seemed to fall through the cracks until now. The kidnapping case came full circle when Child Protective Services, along with the San Augustine sheriff`s office, began investigating Tanner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some physical abuse of this unknown male child that was reportedly living in her household.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were trying to get -- arrest her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators in San Augustine County arrested the woman caring for Champion`s son eight years ago when they both disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, I knew this family. It wasn`t, like, Hey, stranger. No, I knew this family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Eight years after this infant`s kidnapping, the baby is found alive 150 miles away.
Out to Lori in New York. Hi, Lori. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Lori. (sic) Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, love.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) I just wanted to see I love the pictures of your children.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re very cute and they`re growing up very fast. I wanted to ask you, what was the relationship between the mother and the father? Is it possible that the mother gave the baby away to keep it away from the father?
GRACE: Good question. Out to Dan McGraw, "Houston Chronicle." what do you know, Dan?
MCGRAW: One, we don`t know if the mother gave the baby away to the baby-sitter. I mean, if that`s the case, as Chief Cunningham has told me, she should have just come clean and just said, Here`s the situation, but that never happened. We don`t know the family situation at that time, but there wasn`t anything at that time that seemed fishy, or you know, reason to think that she was somewhat involved in the case.
GRACE: OK. Here is what the mother is saying, Auboni Champion Morin. She is saying, "I want to tell him" -- my child -- "I love him." And when CPS, DFACS, Child Protective Services, won`t hand him over, she says, "It`s frustrating. I`m tired of waiting."
All right, Gaetane Borders, missing child advocate, president of Peas in Their Pods, she`s tired of waiting. She is not charged at this moment, but certainly, Houston police and San Augustine police have got to be considering charging her as an accessory to kidnapping. What about it, Gaetane?
GAETANE BORDERS, PRES. PEAS IN THEIR PODS: Well, Nancy, you know, we don`t know. I really don`t know what to make of her statement in this case. I know it sounds very fishy, but a lot of families that we deal with say that there`s a lot of misunderstanding between them and the police department.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surprised!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a case that seemed to fall through the cracks until now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The last thing I heard him do was cry. So it was -- it was heart-wrenching.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The child has been found eight years after being kidnapped, and the suspect is very close to home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: San Augustine officials say for the last eight years, 26-year-old Krystle Tanner has been evading the law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You figure she`s trustworthy, and you know their entire family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mother found that Krystle Tanner and the child were missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love him very much, and we never gave up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. The mom insisting she gave police the right date of kidnap. Police saying, Oh, no, you didn`t. And the prosecution refusing to go forward with an indictment due to the lack of information from the mother.
Straight out to psychologist Caryn Stark. Caryn Stark, the mom is now saying, I`m tired of waiting for my child`s return, because children`s services has the child. But it sounds to me like there is a big gap in information with what she told police way back when. I`ve got Chief Deputy Gary Cunningham here, Caryn.
Chief Deputy Cunningham, could you please explain again why a charge, a formal charge was not made eight years ago.
CUNNINGHAM: I`ll just simply be providing information that is contained in the Houston Police Department investigative report. And I`m going to make sure everyone understands that Ms. Morin or the child`s mother did report this matter to the Houston Police Department, and she spoke to detectives on a number of occasions.
In February 2005, according to the report, the detectives working the case presented all the information to the Harris County DA`s office. And they were just extremely close to accepting a charge of kidnapping against Krystle Tanner, who has been the only suspect identified in this case.
But apparently, the DA asked for clarification on the precise date on which the child was taken. HPD, for whatever reason, was unable to determine that information in the case that, again, was ultimately closed in 2006.
GRACE: You know, Chief, I`m glad that you cleared that up. I`m very glad.
So now I`ve got the tough decision, Caryn Stark. Is it because the mom didn`t follow through? Or was somehow the state responsible for dropping the ball? But it just seems to me, if my child were missing and I thought the baby-sitter took the child, why wouldn`t I be in the police and the DA`s office every day demanding charges, demanding to find the baby? I don`t understand, Caryn.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s the most confusing part, Nancy, because what I read is that she did report it. She did put out flyers. She really did try.
And yet, what difference does it make if it was day one or day two that the baby was kidnapped? Plus, the woman`s name was out there. Somebody should have done something. They knew her name was Krystle Tanner.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) * (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New developments --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big break in the case --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just until this week --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a case that seem to fall through the cracks until now --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police got a call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know he`s here, I know he`s OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Albany Champion was shocked --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overwhelmed because it`s been eight years. I want him home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectors say the woman accused of taking the boy --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn`t saying much about his whereabouts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love him very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you figured he`s trustworthy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then we went back and they were gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You must have panic-stricken, rights?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s hard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say the male child 8-years-old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The same age the 8-month-old would be today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was like I knew this family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators in San Augustine county arrested the woman caring for Champion`s son.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope he`s alive and OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they both disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will never give up. Never give up.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: I would think part of never giving up is making sure that a formal indictment had been handed down against the babysitter, Krystle Tanner, and finding your child only 150 miles away. Now gone eight long years.
Krystle Tanner, a trusted babysitter, absconds with baby M., mommy comes back, according to her. Baby M., babysitter gone. According to chief deputy Gary Cunningham, she did file a police report, visited with detectives. However, the district attorney`s office turned down complaints when they couldn`t get a clear date as to the actual time the child was kidnapped.
So eight years pass between now and then? The headline is the baby is alive and well, and babysitter Krystle Tanner behind bars thanks to good police work between Houston and San Augustine sheriff`s divisions.
But now, a lot of questions still remaining. To Mark Harold, former officer, author of "observations of white noise," also an attorney.
Mark Harold, I`m missing something here because when your baby goes missing, all right, and they say, what day did the baby goes missing, you tell the cops. And then you start looking.
MARK HAROLD, FORMER OFFICE, AUTHOR, OBSERVATIONS OF WHITE NOISE: Yes. Absolutely. It makes no sense. This would seem to be a very definite date. What day and what date were you picking up your child from a babysitter? And you are going to remember when not only the child but somebody you know well, a neighbor, disappears at the same time.
I don`t understand how chronology is the missing factor. It seems like all you have to do is know when do you arrange to pick up your child from the babysitter and that`s when the child is missing.
GRACE: And Ellie Jostad, obviously the babysitter would have been implicated because the baby sitter takes off and the baby is gone at the same time so obviously she took the baby.
So, what I don`t understand is why formal charges didn`t go down. Why there wasn`t a bolo -- be on the lookout -- for Krystle Tanner. Why wasn`t she a fugitive from justice? Eight years, Ellie.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right.
GRACE: This child now has to go home to a brand new mother and father. Everything -- everything he`s known for eight years is a lie.
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. And that`s the question that everybody is asking now. In fact, Houston police say they are going do an internal investigation to figure out how they handled this because apparently like everybody said, it got to the point where they were about to file charges, but when they couldn`t clarify the information with the parents, the case was closed.
And because the case was closed, there was never any amber alert. The boy`s name was removed from missing child data bases. That`s why they had so much trouble figuring out who had little 8-year-old was when he was finally discovered with the sitter.
GRACE: Ellie, you`re clearing up a lot. And to chief Gary Cunningham told who me mom did make a police report and visited with detectives. But apparently never handed over the date the child went missing. So, I guess the D.A.`s office smelled a rat or so they thought.
So Ellie, does it look like the state let the case drop through the cracks, or mom never supplied the correct date of the kidnapping?
JOSTAD: Right. Well, you know, that`s a question. It depends who you talk to, Nancy. The mom says now that it`s not true that she was uncooperative or that she never gave an exact date. She told HLN`s Dr. Drew that the exact date was November 16, 8:43 a.m. So, somewhere some wires got crossed here, Nancy. And there`s going to be an investigation on find out why that happened.
GRACE: Dan McGraw, I`ve still got a problem because if I supplied the date that my child went missing and there was not a formal charge, I would be chained to the front door of that courthouse demanding justice to explain to me -- what happened?
DAN C. MCGRAW, WEB EDITOR, HOUSTON CHRONICLE (via telephone): I mean, if -- if police do not have the information that they need, if they can`t get a specific date and they don`t feel comfortable with that date, with that information where it`s coming from, they can`t move forward with a case. They can`t use information that they don`t feel 100 percent sure about. They can`t take that to court.
I mean, all these prosecutors, police officers, anybody in law enforcement, they want a rock-solid case before they bring it before a judge, jury, you know, even the public. You don`t want to have any questions that pop up --
GRACE: Are you telling me that they had questions?
MCGRAW: Obviously -- obviously they did have a question if they asked her for a specific date and they didn`t get a specific date. And then they chose not to move forward with that case. So either --
GRACE: Is that what you believed happened, Dan McGraw? Dan McGraw joining us from "the Houston chronicle."
Are you -- do you believe she did not give them a date of kidnapping, or do you believe her, that she did and police refused to do anything?
MCGRAW: I mean, what I believe is kind of irrelevant in this whole situation. What police have told me and what I have reported is that they did not get a specific date when they needed a clarification on that date so they did not proceed with kidnapping charges.
GRACE: OK. Out to the lines. Misty in Texas, hi, Misty. What`s your question?
MISTY, CALLER, TEXAS: Yes, ma`am. I`ve been listening to your show about this and what you`re saying that confirms what I thought already. Maybe back then she made a deal with the babysitter that she was going to give her the baby for drugs, money, whatever situation, take him, I don`t want him. And later on she thought better of it. I don`t want to get in trouble for doing this, so let me make it up that she took him. Because how detached do you have to be as a mom to not remember when is the last time you saw your kid?
GRACE: You know what`s crazy, Misty? I remember the exact minute down to the digit when my children went to play school because I looked at the clock to see -- we played so much and it took so long to get them ready. I looked to see if they were going to be late when we left. So I agree with you, misty, n Texas.
Joe Gomez, KTRH. Has there been any suggestion that mommy was part of the kidnap scheme?
JOE GOMEZ, SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, KTRH NEWS RADIO: Well Nancy, there are unconfirmed reports there was some sort of agreement between the mommy and the babysitter. You know, involving the missing child.
But as Misty said, I mean, this is pretty profound. Now mommy does have about five other kids. She has five kids in total. And she was actually pregnant at the time. That`s why she couldn`t take a polygraph test to back up her story with the cops. So I mean there are a lot of holes in this story, Nancy. You`re right to question that.
GRACE: OK. I couldn`t understand what you said about polygraph. What did you say?
GOMEZ: I said the mother was pregnant at the time so she couldn`t take a polygraph.
GRACE: How long has she been pregnant?
GOMEZ: What do you mean -- at the time that the kid went missing, she was pregnant. She couldn`t take a polygraph test.
GRACE: OK, Joe -- you`re making me think that it was recent because she obviously wasn`t pregnant for eight years. She had to take --
GOMEZ: That`s something to investigate.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait. Have I somehow gone into the twilight zone?
Ellie Jostad, mom was asked to take a polygraph. Number one, why was mommy asked to take a polygraph? Number two, she never took it because she said she was pregnant. Pregnancy, to my understanding, human gestation is only nine months. Explain to me, what about the other seven years?
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, now remember, this polygraph information is coming from the mother. We don`t have police confirming that they ever asked her to take a polygraph. She says that she was asked, she offered to take one. But she says that then the police didn`t do the task because they said they couldn`t since she was pregnant. So we don`t know from police if that`s true or if they did pursue a polygraph later on.
GRACE: Chief deputy Gary Cunningham, was she asked to take a poly?
GARY CUNNINGHAM, CHIEF DEPUTY, SAN AUGUSTINE COUNTY, SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Yes, she was. According to the HPD investigative report and for the very reasons as was mentioned here, she was pregnant at the time.
GRACE: Well, OK, the pregnancy`s only nine months. What happened?
CUNNINGHAM: I guess those answers have to be posed to the Houston police department. I would like to say --
GRACE: You`re a very wise man, Chief Cunningham. Go ahead.
CUNNINGHAM: I would like to say that when we got the case back in January, we were aware of all these issues, but we looked at the fundamental aspects of the case, that the child had been reported missing back in 2004, never recovered. Krystle Tanner had been identified as the only suspect, never charged, but pretty close to being charged. The child remained to be missing. Krystle Tanner provided false, misleading, and contradictory information to child protective services, and to law enforcement. And by her own admission to keep the child under the radar and out of the hands of CPS and the police. We used that as a basis to get the warrant, but our primary focus was to get the child who is the victim in this case.
GRACE: You`re darn right, chief.
Ellie Jostad, just tell me the condition of the child when it`s found eight years later.
JOSTAD: Right. Well, Nancy, the good news is, is that CPS says that he is normal height and weight for his age. He actually appears to be a very polite little boy, very happy. But Nancy --
GRACE: I thought CPS had been called out because of neglect. That the babysitter had been neglecting the child. What about that?
JOSTAD: Yes, that`s true. That`s what got this whole thing in motion. This past summer, the mother -- I`m sorry, rather, the babysitter who said she was his mother took him in for a leg injury. The hospital staff became suspicious when she couldn`t supply a Social Security number for him. She wasn`t clear on who exactly this child was in relation to herself.
And as Cunningham explained, she gave a lot of different answers about who exactly this boy was that was in her care.
GRACE: So she allegedly kidnaps the baby, he grows up, he`s 8-years- old, and during that time she starts neglecting him and mistreating him. He goes to the hospital with a leg injury, and they, the hospital, called child protective services?
JOSTAD: Yes. That`s right, Nancy. That`s how law enforcement got involved is when her statements were inconsistent about who this boy was. At one point, she said it was the son of some woman she met in a park. And she was asked to take care of him.
GRACE: So she allegedly kidnaps the child and then neglects him to the point cps is called.
Very quickly to tonight`s case alert, the search for a Milwaukee man last seen with friends. 28-year-old Tom Hecht vanishing Saturday night, 10:00, from a local restaurant, Rosie`s on the water. Last seen wearing a green shirt, St. Patrick`s day inscription. Multiple searches, by land, water, including Milwaukee river. Please help us find this young man with his life before him. Call Milwaukee police. 414-935-7401.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be a daycare inspection investigators wouldn`t soon forget. Authorities say they received a tip about possible overcrowding at a daycare facility. The home of 54-year-old caregiver Catalina Reyes. Out of nowhere, the inspector allegedly hears crying behind the door of a basement crawl space. What he was about to find truly shocking. Nothing could prepare him for this.
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GRACE: Baby found hidden in a basement crawl space. Straight out to Clark Goldband. What happened, Clark?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, an absolutely shocking discovery. Here`s what we know. Apparently they got a tip, the health inspector did, that this daycare facility had been overcapacity. The health inspector then goes out to that daycare facility and starts searching around. It wasn`t until he got to the basement area of this home that he started to hear crying coming from the basement crawl space. He opens that door, calls law enforcement, and what he finds is a 6-month-old child in a car seat crying. Law enforcement has said that this child likely wasn`t fed, or had anything to drink for at least four hours.
GRACE: You know, Michael Board, WOAI, joining us. Here`s a crawl space. The baby is found still strapped down in a car seat, hidden in a basement crawl space. The baby was covered in feces and urine. Down there, pitifully crying. It could barely be heard anymore. Way in.
MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWS RADIO: For parents, finding a -- finding a daycare is a difficult thing. Letting go of your child and putting your child in the guardian of somebody else, a very difficult thing. Parents often struggle with this, trying to find a place that is OK. That there were several parents who decided that this was the right place, and you have to feel for them. They -- they apparently had no idea this was going on. Now, Miss Reyes, she is 54 years old, she was arrested, bond was set at $5,000. She was bonded out of prison. Right now, she is out on bond. She`ll be back in court next week --
GRACE: Out on bond? She shoves a baby in a car seat and puts it in a dark basement crawl space, and she is out on bond?
I guarantee Smetters, Cohen, Kessler, if an adult was bound, hands and feet, and put in a pitch a black crawl space in a basement and left there to urinate and defecate on themselves, only found by authorities, they -- this woman would be behind bars and stay there for the next 20 years. Help me out, Cohen. And don`t start with the defense B.S. Just tell me the truth.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The truth is that what she did was wrong. The truth is she deserves a bond. The truth it s she made a bond. This is the first time that we know of that she`s been arrested. So yes, what she did was stupid. It was wrong. And never should happen. But she -- it is a bondable offense. It`s not murder. It`s not armed robbery. It`s not rape. It`s not kidnapping.
GRACE: Karen Stark, you know, adults may want to tell themselves, defense attorneys may want to tell themselves children have no recollection of this. I disagree.
KAREN STARK: I agree with you, Nancy. They do have a recollection. It`s not something that they can verbalize, but they wind up being very fearful.
GRACE: As we go to break, happy birthday to a Florida friend, Holly Dionne McCormick. Devoted mother of two. Loves spending time with her family and friends. They are her kids, Grace and Cole, husband, Robert. What a beautiful family.
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PUSHPA BASNET, CHAMPIONING CHILDREN: In Nepal when people are arrested by police and the children don`t have a local guardian, some children go to prison with the parents.
The first time I visited the jail, I was studying social work. I saw a small girl. She grabbed my shawl and she gave me a smile. It was really hard to forget that.
My name is Pushpa Basnet and my mission is to make sure no child grows up behind prison walls.
In 2005, I started a daycare where children can come out from the jail in the morning and they can go back to the jail in the afternoon. We have children who are from two to four and they have coloring, reading, studying five days a week.
We started the residents at home in 2007. Currently, we have 40 children living here, mostly above six years old. I don`t get a day off, but I never get tired. The children all call me Mamu. It is a big family. With lots and lots of love.
When I started this organization, I was 21 years old. People thought I was crazy, but this is what I wanted in my life. I`m giving them what a normal child should have. I want to fulfill all their dreams.
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GRACE: A tiny 6-month-old baby kept prisoner in a dark basement crawl space, still strapped town in a car seat.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Totally shocking discovery. Here is what we know. Apparently, they got a tip, the health inspector did that this daycare facility had been over capacity. The health inspector then goes out to that daycare facility and starts searching around. It wasn`t until he got to the basement area of this home that he started to hear crying coming from the basement crawl space.
He opens that door, calls law enforcement, and what he finds is a 6- month-old child in a car seat, crying. Law enforcement said this child likely wasn`t fed nor had anything to drink for four hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finding a day care is a very difficult thing, letting go of your child and putting your child in the guardian of somebody else is a difficult thing. Parents often struggle with this, trying to find a place that`s OK. There were several parents that decided this was the right place. And you have to feel for them. They apparently had no idea this was going on.
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GRACE: The baby hidden away, being kept strapped down. If an adult was bound, hands and feet, and put in a pitch black crawl space in a basement and left there to urinate and defecate on themselves, only found by authorities, this woman would be behind bars and stay there for the next 20 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unfortunately, despite what occurred, fortunately, the baby was OK. She had been there at least four hours I think, no food, and nothing to drink. Her diaper had not been changed. But fortunately, she was not injured, she was OK. The officers who responded contacted her parents. They came to pick her up. And all the other children were OK fortunately.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember army staff sergeant Patrick Kutschbach, 25, McKees Rocks, Pennsylvania. Killed in Afghanistan. An elite green beret, bronze star, purple heart, meritorious service medal.
Loved volleyball, football, basketball, woodworking, writing. Dreamed of coaching his son in baseball after deployment.
Leaves behind parents Dave and Debbie, brothers David and Andy, widow Ginger, son, Bastian.
Patrick Kutschbach, American hero.
Thanks to our guests and especially to you for being with us. And special good night from the New York control room. Good night, everybody. Bret, Liz, Rosie.
Everyone, I will see you Monday night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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