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Nancy Grace
Some Say Video Shows Zimmerman Injuries
Aired March 30, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news out of Sanford, Florida, in the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. Martin was on his way to his father`s condo when he was gunned down by the captain of a neighborhood watch.
As of this hour, still no arrests, and protests spread across the country. After stunning surveillance video is released of George Zimmerman at the police station just 35 minutes after the shooting, growing debate about what the video proves. There is no obvious sign of a broken nose or bleeding or bruises or anything on Zimmerman.
Zimmerman`s supporters come forward, though, insisting that medical records will prove his story. The first alleged eyewitness emerges -- that`s right, alleged eyewitness. He says he saw it. What did they see that night?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No sign of blood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where`s the bloody T-shirt?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No signs of cuts on the back of the head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And at some point, George pulled his pistol and he did what he did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He supposedly went up to this young man and started asking him some questions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother said someone got shot behind our house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, at that point, the young man may have turned around and became defensive and possibly attacked him. We don`t know at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s hardly any indication on camera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not see injury in this video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now George Zimmerman said what perpetrators of violence frequently do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are being ridiculous, and it`s horrifying, the desperate and the things that are being put against him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw a man laying on the ground that needed help, that was screaming.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They blame the victim.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Heard screams of pain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother saw it and the word "help."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard a loud sound, the screaming stopped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.
New developments in the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. After police surveillance video shows Zimmerman just moments after the shooting, the first alleged eyewitness -- eyewitness! -- saying they saw it -- that person has surfaced.
Let us go to CNN correspondent Martin Savidge, who is live in Sanford, Florida. Martin, what is the reaction to this interview that is riveting, in a sense, because he saw, he says, two people struggling? And he heard cries. He looked out his window. And we don`t know if it`s a he or she, Martin, as you know, because they are concerned for their own safety in speaking out.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. There`s no question that the coming forward of this witness has created a lot of buzz down here in Sanford and in and around this investigation because, as you say, up to this point, all we`ve had are I guess what you`d call ear witnesses, people who heard something, people who were calling 911.
But this was a person who has come forward and told authorities that they saw it from the very first blow. That could be crucial to this investigation determining who really was the aggressor. So that`s why, Jean, there`s a lot of talk about this today.
CASAREZ: And Martin, we want let everybody to listen to a little bit of this interview from this alleged eyewitness to the attack, to the altercation that resulted in the death of Trayvon Martin. Listen to this unnamed -- and we don`t even know the gender of -- alleged eyewitness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED: Saw two men on the ground, one on top of each other, obviously thinking, OK, something really horrible was happening. And at that point, not looking out the window, I heard the yell for help, one yell for help. And then I heard another -- as I described, this excruciating type of yell. It didn`t even sound like "help," it just sounded so painful.
Then the next time I looked out the window, there, same thing, two men on the grass, one on top of each other. I kind of felt like they -- I couldn`t see a lot of movement. It was very dark. But I felt like they were scuffling.
And then I heard gunshots, which to me were more like pops than they were like a -- like a bang. It was more like a pop. And there definitely was more than one pop noise. So I don`t know if it was an echo or anything else, but it definitely made more than one pop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Did you hear that? Excruciating screams for help. Excruciating! Someone was in fear for their life. Also, did you hear "gunshots"? Not gunshot, gunshots.
I want to go back out to Martin Savidge. You know, there`s a little bit of an issue here about grassy area versus concrete because George Zimmerman`s brother has come out also saying that his own brother had to take his head and put it on -- his own head on the grass so he couldn`t continue to be pounded on the cement.
But this witness is saying it was all grass that was under the altercation.
SAVIDGE: Right. There is discrepancies. And this is one of the things we found in just about every one of these eyewitness accounts, even the account that George Zimmerman puts forward through his family.
And so, you know, what are we supposed to make of this? Then you have gunshots? As far as we know, there was only one shot, but there have been other witnesses that said they heard more than one shot. Now, some have explained it away as, Well, that`s the echo, the reverberation of a single shot magnified by the buildings of the housing complex.
But again, these discrepancies -- they only seem to add to the questions instead of answering them, Jean.
CASAREZ: And that`s a very good point because gunshot versus gunshots -- that`s a very big deal, especially when you`re talking about spent (ph) and stand your ground.
Want to go out to Natisha Lance, who is NANCY GRACE producer joining us tonight. Nancy -- Natisha, also, George Zimmerman`s brother has come forward in an exclusive interview with CNN discussing what we believe that he learned from his own brother. What are some of the things that we`re learning on the side of Zimmerman?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, what he is saying, Jean, is that Trayvon Martin was the aggressor, that George Zimmerman was not patrolling the neighborhood, he was actually on his way to Target when he noticed a suspicious person who ended up being Trayvon Martin.
He said that he is not -- he did not just take out his gun and shoot Trayvon Martin. He said that there was a struggle. Trayvon Martin approached him, and he did say to him something along the lines of, Do you have a problem?
And in that scuffle is when his gun was revealed. He said that Trayvon Martin reached for that gun, and George Zimmerman was simply trying to protect himself. And that is when he did what he did and shot Trayvon Martin.
CASAREZ: All right, we are taking your calls. I want to go to Floyd in Florida, who is in the heart of -- Misty in Michigan. Hi, Misty. Are you there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean.
CASAREZ: Hi, Misty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for taking time to speak with me.
CASAREZ: Of course. Your comment or question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, if my memory serves me correctly, Mr. Zimmerman was told by the 911 operator not to chase Trayvon, but he continued to do so. Will that play a part in the investigation or Mr. Zimmerman`s alleged guilt?
CASAREZ: You know, it`s a great, great question. Let`s go to the lawyers tonight. First of all, Latonia Hines, prosecutor joining us from Atlanta, Peter Odom, also from Atlanta, defense attorney extraordinaire, and John Manuelian, defense attorney out of Los Angeles. Thanks so much for joining us.
You know, Latonia Hines, that is the big question here because it`s on tape when he has said, I`m going to follow him, Don`t follow him. Does that then preclude any type of "stand your ground"? Or do we have various chapters because if it`s true that suddenly, Trayvon Martin was behind Zimmerman, then the law could go the other way, right?
LATONIA HINES, PROSECUTOR: Well, that`s true, but the thing of it is, I mean, you`re still going under this self-defense idea. I mean, you were told not to go any further. And supposedly, upon the self-defense and things like that, you`re afraid. And you kept going anyway, even when you`re told not to go. And you could have let the authorities go ahead.
And I think that`s going to come into play with regard to this "stand your ground" type of idea because I don`t think it was as imminent as he made it seem. He was following him, and you`re told, Don`t go any further. We can take care of this. We`ll send somebody out. But yet he still went anyway.
CASAREZ: So then Peter Odom, why is there an issue? Because if he says, I`m going to follow him, then why are the state attorneys now even looking at the fact if this is legal force? Because if he`s following him, then how can he assert "stand your ground"?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: As I hear that 911 tape, he says that he`s following someone. The operator says, Don`t follow him. But just because he continued to follow him does not preclude the fact that Trayvon might have been the first aggressor.
Following doesn`t mean being aggressive. Now, maybe there will be evidence later that Trayvon -- you know, that -- that George Zimmerman was the first aggressor. But following does not mean he was the aggressor. And that`s all that 911 tape establishes.
CASAREZ: All right, Sheryl McCollum, I want to go to you, crime analyst. There are two distinctly different stories here. Either Trayvon Martin was attacked by George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin was behind George Zimmerman and attacked Zimmerman.
What are you going to look at with a crime scene investigation to see who`s credible here?
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: It`s going to come down to forensics. I want to know the trajectory of that bullet. Was Trayvon on top of Mr. Zimmerman, or was it the opposite? It`s either going to be discredited by his statement or it`s going to say, Look, this is consistent with what Mr. Zimmerman has been saying.
I want to know about the blood. If you are in close -- you know, close proximity to someone when you shoot them, where`s the blood splatter on you? You know, Trayvon`s blood should be on Mr. Zimmerman if they were a foot away. So I want to know how far that, you know, weapon was from his chest when it went off.
CASAREZ: Well, let`s go back to...
MCCOLLUM: So again, we`re going to forensics.
CASAREZ: ... to the video. Let`s go back to the video, Sheryl, because video doesn`t lie. Let`s look at this.
You know what really gets me, Sheryl, when I look at this, not only does he look so intact, look at his shirt. It is so well tucked into his pants. I mean, he`s immaculate in that video. There is nothing out of place (INAUDIBLE) blood on him. His shirt is perfectly in his pants with his belt.
I want to go back out to Martin Savidge, CNN correspondent joining us from Sanford, Florida. We know that the clothes of Zimmerman are now in the hands of law enforcement. We do know that, right?
SAVIDGE: That`s correct. The clothing from both George Zimmerman and the clothing from Trayvon Martin are in the hands of authorities, and we understand that they will undergo forensic testing, if it hasn`t happened already.
CASAREZ: And we know that the red jacket he has on -- witnesses described that he had a red jacket on after the shooting took place. Do we know when he gave his clothes to law enforcement at all? Because these clothes are just so pristine in every way and so well tucked in so well with his belt, it`s hard to imagine that those are the clothes that took place in an altercation.
SAVIDGE: Those are the clothes that witnesses who were looking at the two men immediately after the altercation said that George Zimmerman was wearing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A crime has been committed here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First time we`re seeing what the shooter, George Zimmerman, looked like immediately after killing Trayvon Martin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zimmerman claimed self-defense.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His lawyer has said he believed Zimmerman`s nose was broken.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He sustained an injury to his nose and to the back of his head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t see any evidence as he`s been fighting (ph) about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard the yell for help, an excruciating type of yell. It didn`t even only (ph) sound like a "help," it just sounded so painful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t see bandages. I don`t see a nose that looks overtly broken. I don`t see blood streaming down the face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is after the fire department paramedics have taken a look at him and helped clean him up a little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To me, his nose looks swollen in that video. I`m his brother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video appears to show an officer looking at the back of his head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question now, what does it prove?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This video is clear evidence that there is some problem with this case and that he needs to be arrested.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. This case gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Now the first alleged eyewitness has come forward, talking exclusively on this case, talking about what his brother -- the injuries his brother sustained. And we don`t know what happened in that interrogation room when George Zimmerman -- after he walked in, just as you`re seeing. This is minutes after the shooting occurred.
He walked in -- and you know, Nancy Grace was the only one that has brought up that this man was handcuffed. And that is significant right there. That is a suspect. That is someone that is not free to leave. That is someone who`s going to be interrogated.
Why didn`t it result in charges? That`s the mystery.
I want to go out to Dr. Michelle Dupre. She is -- Dupre -- she`s a medical examiner, forensic pathologist. Doctor, I want you to listen to a little bit of what George Zimmerman`s brother talks about in regard to the injury to his brother that occurred that night, and then I want to talk to you about it. Let`s take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, JR., GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S BROTHER: George knew he had sustained some kind of injury to his face or his nose. I don`t know that he knew it was broken.
We`re confident the medical records are going to explain all of George`s medical history, both how he was treated at the scene and how he was not. To me, his nose looks swollen in that video. I`m his brother.
What I think I see is his swollen nose. Now, I`m not a physician. You`re not a physician. A lot of these injuries take time, 24, 36 hours, to show the bruising. His nose is still broken, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: That was an exclusive interview with Piers Morgan that the brother of George Zimmerman gave.
Dr. Dupre, first of all, last night Nancy asked a forensic pathologist, If you break your nose, can you not have blood, or do you have a lot of blood? What is your response to that question?
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: It is possible to have a broken nose, and the swelling or the bleeding may not be significant. Just depends on how badly it is broken. And again, it depends on the time that has elapsed since then.
CASAREZ: All right, let`s go this way, though. If there`s an altercation and the two parties are very close, and a firearm is discharged at close range -- because that`s what we believe it was, very close range - - and now we believe there`s more than one shot, based on this alleged eyewitness -- wouldn`t there be stippling, gunpowder on the shirt or some part of George Zimmerman`s clothes? And wouldn`t there, in fact, be blood if he`s on top or underneath Trayvon Martin?
DUPRE: That`s an excellent question. And yes, depending on the proximity of the weapon to the body and to the victim, there is likely to be stippling, gunshot residue or tattooing, as we call it, as well as there should be some evidence of blood spatter. It may be very minute, however, and it depends on the clothing that each has actually worn as to how much would penetrate.
CASAREZ: Well, I don`t get it because as we look at this video of Zimmerman minutes after this happened, it doesn`t look like he`s been in an altercation. It looks like he`s just sauntering and walking as normal.
Natalie Jackson, the Martin family attorney, who is joining us tonight from Orlando, what is your take on this? Because when you`re in a fight, an altercation for your life, aren`t you going to show some type of injury or blood or disarray to your clothes?
NATALIE JACKSON, ATTORNEY FOR TRAYVON MARTIN FAMILY: Yes. My take on this is that we don`t see any visible injuries. We don`t see any torn clothes. We don`t see any grass stains. We don`t see any -- any type of that.
You know, your eyes can see what is there. The video shows what`s there. We don`t need his brother to tell us what`s there, what we see.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Did you hear the shot?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard something, and my brother ran in the house.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And your brother didn`t see anything else?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother saw it.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tragic shooting of Trayvon Martin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The teenager and the neighborhood watch...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman. Questions about Zimmerman`s story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does the bald guy in the red jacket look like he`s been beaten and bloodied? He claimed the teenager bashed his head and broke his nose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened in the pursuit?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who was on top?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe me son was defending himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the gun went off...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a .9-millimeter gun, Trayvon Martin had a bag of Skittles.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God, he shot -- he shot the person! He just said he shot the person.
UNIDENTIFIED: Excruciating type of yell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was silence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. The outrage of this case has gotten to a point where innocent people are being thrust into the public spotlight, that are being targeted, in a sense, for merely having the same name.
With us tonight exclusively is the other George Zimmerman. I want to thank you so much for joining us tonight. And it is your parents, Mr. Zimmerman, that had their address -- and no relation to this case, but their address was actually tweeted by Spike Lee to his 250,000 followers.
How did you find out that your parents` address, because of your name, was being disseminated to so many?
WILLIAM GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, MISTAKEN FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN (via telephone): I happened to have a friend tell me that -- or actually, my mother told me that -- that -- about the hate letter. And then I had a friend tell me that there was a tweet with the information, or Twitter, and so I went and looked.
CASAREZ: And what did you see?
ZIMMERMAN: Actually, I saw a gentleman from Los Angeles that I guess had started the tweet, and then that`s where Spike Lee posted that to his followers.
CASAREZ: So you see your parents` address publicly being put out on the Twitter waves (ph). What did you do?
ZIMMERMAN: I actually went and created a Twitter account immediately, and asked that they both stop because they were putting innocent people`s lives at risk.
CASAREZ: And your parents actually had to leave their home.
ZIMMERMAN: They have. I have, as well, for the past few days, due to others possibly thinking that I am of any relation to him, which I am not.
CASAREZ: And you are not telling us your location tonight. You are in an undisclosed location. Have you had to go anywhere as part of your normal course of business and give your name to anyone in the last couple of weeks?
ZIMMERMAN: I have.
CASAREZ: What`s the reaction?
ZIMMERMAN: I`ve had favorable reaction by people that have gotten my name while I was there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What exactly happened between the teenager and the neighborhood watch guy?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother said he shot the person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tape doesn`t show any signs of any injuries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is what people are not seeing that`s raising so many eyebrows and raising so much concern.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His case has been blown completely out of the water when this video was released.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No sign of blood. No signs of cuts at the back of the head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole explanation of having the head banging on the concrete is starting to dilute.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN JR., GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S BROTHER: This whole idea that he was chasing a person is absolutely false.
911MALE DISPATCHER: Are you following him?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, SHOT TRAYVON MARTIN: Yes.
911 MALE DISPATCHER: OK. You don`t need to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zimmerman needs to be arrested and he needs to be arrested today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. After so many weeks of wondering what the facts are, why charges have not been filed, are we any closer to resolution, an alleged eyewitness, that`s right, somebody who says they saw the altercation that resulted in Trayvon Martin losing his life that they saw. They have done an exclusive interview with CNN. We want to play some of that with you.
But first, I want to go out to Martin Savidge who is standing by, live, in Sanford, Florida.
Martin, how is the community reacting to his alleged eye witness coming forth as well as George Zimmerman`s own brother?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. they are very interested about this eye witness because this is the first we have heard of someone like that. And keep in mind now, what, it`s been over a month since this incident happened and now it`s the first time we hear there`s someone who says they saw at least a portion of that life-and-death struggle. So, that`s clearly got people`s attention here.
As far as family members coming forward, now we have the older brother of George Zimmerman speak out to CNN, but the story is always consistently the same from family members, George Zimmerman acted in self-defense. It is a nonstop message.
CASAREZ: And you know, Martin, what really complicate this, we have been able to confirm that sun down that night, sunset that night was 6:23 p.m. And this took place a little after 7:00. So this alleged eyewitness, and we don`t know if it`s a man or a woman, because they will not allow their identity to be known, their voice distorted. But this all happen a little after 7:00, so what could they really see in the dark?
Now, we want you all to listen to a little of this from this person who said I saw it, I opened my window up and I watched it myself. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: To your memory, George Zimmerman, after the shooting, did he appear injured to you? Did you see any blood? Did you see him walking differently?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that I don`t know how he walked, just that, you know, it was kind a slow your thinking, wow, I`m looking at the person that just shot someone. It was dark. But I could see from a side view that it was an Hispanic man, as far as seeing any blood or anything else, no. Just from the side view.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: You can see the controversy continues, the inconsistencies continue, what was seen, what was not seen, makes it very, very complicated for prosecutors in this case.
I want to go out to Natalie Jackson who is the Martin family attorney. As you watched all this, one of the things that has now come into play that has nothing to do with this case, but innocent people are having to be involved in for us to the public spotlight with us tonight, exclusively as the other George Zimmerman, whose parents` address was tweeted by Spike Lee to his $250,000 followers.
What are your thoughts of how this escalated to direction - and I don`t think anybody would dream?
NATALIE JACKSON, MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: No. and this is not a direction of the parents want. The parents want a legal arrest by lawful authorities. They don`t want any vigilantism. They don`t want the KKK hacking into their son`s account. They don`t want black militants putting bounties out on people. That is not what they want. This is about justice, this is not about everyone`s different baggage and their hate.
CASAREZ: You know, with us tonight, George Zimmerman, who is the other George Zimmerman. His parents, their address, if I just said was tweeted on twitter by others including Spike Lee. Where are you - I don`t want to ask who were your parents are? But do they still have threats? As they still concerns for their safety since their address was public`s eyes in the. I believe Orange county areas, so many.
WILLIAM GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, MISTAKEN FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IN HIDING (via telephone): If I may, Jean, I just want to be clear, my middle name is George, so that is not my first name. And I am of no relation to the man in question, my mother and father are still not staying at home, correct.
CASAREZ: All right. I want to go to attorney John Morgan, who`s the attorney for Elaine and David. You know, Mr. Zimmerman makes the point that his first name isn`t even George, that`s his middle name.
Why do you think their address, the parents` address was tweeted to many in this country? What was the purpose of it, John?
JOHN MORGAN, ATTORNEY FOR COUPLE FORCED TO FLEE HOME (via telephone): I think what happened was that it was tweeted to Spike Lee, that he re- tweeted it, you know, within a millisecond and as soon as he did it, he probably thought he shouldn`t have. And you know, years ago before there was twitter and e-mail, we used to tell people to, you know, write a letter, put it in the mail for three days, and if you want to send it, send it, but this is a different time and age.
CASAREZ: To Mr. Zimmerman, middle name George, why do you think that it was tweeted? I want to ask you that, but also Spike Lee has offered a sincere apology to your parents, correct?
WILLIAM GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Yes, they have spoken with him, and I don`t think -- I`m not sure why it was done. I really don`t know what the man was thinking or any of those that were involved, so I really can`t speculate on why it was done, it just has been done and it has affected my family`s life.
CASAREZ: Changed for a long time, I am sure. To Steve Helling, staff writer for "People" magazine joining us tonight out of Orlando, Give us more information from what this alleged eye witness is saying that he or she viewed out the window.
STEVE HELLING, STAFF WRITER, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Yes. This eye witness says that -- it was dark, so they didn`t see who had the upper hand at any specific time. But, you know, after all was said and done, they said they saw in blood and that Zimmerman was not acting as if he had injuries in any way. And I think that` very important.
CASAREZ: That is extremely important.
Let`s go to the caller, Deborah in New Jersey. Hi, Deborah.
DEBORAH, CALLER, NEW JERSEY: Hi, my question is, the "Stand Your Ground" law, did Trayvon have the same rights to stand his ground if he felt like he was being threatened? And also, with the bashing his head on the cement, that was claimed by, I believe his friend or his brother, whoever, wouldn`t there be some trace of blood staining, either on the sidewalk, on his head, anything to show that that did happen, but he doesn`t look whatsoever like someone that was fighting for their life on the video. So, you know, it`s just very odd to me. And wouldn`t they have taken pictures immediately of his hands, face, head, and wouldn`t they have some type of photos showing that it is self-defense.
CASAREZ: One would sure hope so, Deborah.
I want to go to Natalie Jackson, the Martin family attorney. Have you heard at all that there was crime scene tape, that photos were taken at the scene together every bit of evidence that they put to corroborate whatever the truth is in all I this?
JACKSON: No, we haven`t had any of that information at least. I want to go back to Mr. Zimmerman. The family felt so bad what happens to his parents and we really emphasize that should never happen for anyone and the family does not endorse that. As far as any crime tape or anything at the scene. The family has not been released any investigative information so we don`t know.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police, I just heard a shot right behind my house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just said that he saw him shoot a man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father of George Zimmerman said that Martin beat his son and threatened to kill him.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S FATHER: He was punched in the nose. His nose was broken. And he was not until he hit the concrete.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zimmerman claims that Trayvon climbed on top of him and slammed his head into the sidewalk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a police station video, you really can`t tell whether George Zimmerman looks injured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police, I just heard a shot right behind my house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was an incident where someone who is just trying to do the right thing, ended up in a very, very bad position.
CROWD: We want justice! We want justice!
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN: At some point George pulled his pistol and did what he did.
SYBRINA FULTON, TRAYVON MARTIN`S MOTHER: He killed my son and now they`re trying to kill his reputation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trayvon`s parents deserve answers and we`re going to do our best to give them those answers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CASAREZ: And that was George Zimmerman`s father you heard during that piece speaking to Orlando`s WOFL.
I want to talk to Frank Taffe who is joining us tonight. He`s George Zimmerman`s neighbor in Florida. He is the former neighborhood watch block captain. What are you thinking and what are you learning tonight as we are hearing so many different things. But I think one aspect that I really want to focus in on is fact that the brother of George Zimmerman has shed new light on the gun, because he is saying that the gun was never aimed, pointed and intentionally to shoot Trayvon martin. But that Trayvon saw the gun at one point and was telling George Zimmerman that his life was going to be over, in another words, he was going to take that gun and use it. And that` how the self-defense came in.
FRANK TAFFE, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S NEIGHBOR: Well, thanks for having me on the show.
First I would like to bring out the fact that Ms. Jackson should be admonished for her unmitigated and baseless rants. I would like to - I will address your question, but what we`re all forgetting about is that before George was taken down to the station, he was administered first aid by an EMT of Seminole county. So when he appears on the video or on the surveillance tape, he had already been treated by the EMTs. Let`s not forget about the facts in this case. It`s a fact that the EMTs did administer first aid.
CASAREZ: Do you know if any pictures were taken? Because one of the issues, we need to know how bad those injuries were.
TAFFE: I understand. Jean, I played football and I have had my nose busted up pretty bad and you couldn`t tell an hour later, or two days later that I had a broken nose, you know. George experienced a contusion on the back of his head. Let`s elaborate here between or delineate between when a laceration and a contusion. I`m sure you can bring forth some experts in the medical field which I know that I am not, but I know the difference between a contusion and a laceration.
CASAREZ: All right. But what about the question I had for you though, have you heard anything to substantiate what the brother is saying that his gun was made public to Trayvon Martin and that`s the issue.
TAFFE: Yes. I heard the story that George`s life - let`s go back to the Florida`s statute. George`s life was being threatened, that`s when Trayvon, and I heard it not only through the media, but also through Tracy Martin, Trayvon`s father, who initially heard the same thing.
CASAREZ: Then, who made the excruciating scream? The eye witness is saying, who then did the excruciating scream?
TAFFE: That was George Zimmerman, my friend, who was on the ground and being pummeled by a physically fit young black male. George has not played football. The biggest contact forth I believe he ever had was ping- pong.
CASAREZ: All right. Let`s go Sheryl McCollum, crime scene analyst, so experienced in this area. Sheryl, how are they going to find out, there is a cry that is heard.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: Sure.
CASAREZ: And I think on the 911 call, there was some voices that have heard. How are they going to figure out whose voice that is?
MCCOLLUM: They`re going to do a voice analysis. They`re going to go back and are going to slow it down. And they`re going to compare George`s voice and Trayvon`s voice and they are going to figure out who this was.
CASAREZ: But, what if it is a witness? What if there was just somebody standing some place there and hearing it, and that`s the voice we hear.
MCCOLLUM: You know, again, they can rule both of the voice`, you know, out to not leave it to the people that we already identified. That`s one thing. But again, this case is going to come down to forensics. I cannot stress that enough. People have got to let the wheels of justice turn. And they turn so slowly sometimes.
And, you know, as a mother, I cannot imagine Trayvon`s mom having to wait 30-plus days for these answers. There`s no excuse in that. But again, what I see on the video is a man being handcuffed, he`s patted down, and they are escorting him. That looks standard procedure.
In the police report, it says his back is wet, and there`s visible injury. Let the evidence come to light. We just have to wait for it and it difficult, but you`ve got to wait and nobody else needs to be threatened. Nobody else needs to have a bounty put on him and nobody else freaking needs to go to jail.
CASAREZ: And it can`t it public now because it is an investigation. The public doesn`t have a right to know under the law.
To John Manuelian, defense attorney out of Los Angeles. But here`s the thing, an excruciating cry is what the eyewitness says they heard. Does that man, Zimmerman, who`s walking, minutes after that happened, does that look like someone who just made an excruciating cry?
JOHN MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jean, according to WOFL, an Orlando TV station, there`s a witness by the name of John who actually saw the guy with the red jacket yelling for help. So, the guy with the red jacket would be George Zimmerman. He saw George Zimmerman yelling for help. He saw Trayvon Martin on top of him, beating him and then when he after hearing the gunshots, he turn around and noticed that the other guy was laying - that was Trayvon Martin - he was laying on the grass.
So, there is a witness and that`s why George Zimmerman hasn`t been arrested. The reason why he hasn`t arrested, as the other previous guests who said there`s more to this case than meets the eye. I`m not justifying what George Zimmerman did. But it looks like at this point in time there`s just not enough evidence to make an arrest because it may have been justifiable use of force.
CASAREZ: Tonight, everybody. CNN heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE WOOD, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: In the military everyone`s taught how to lead. They taught how to follow, and assault problems. We really find ourselves on being ready and willing to go anywhere. I serve in marine core, deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.
When I first saw the earthquake that hit Haiti, a lot of the images I felt like I had seen them before driving through the streets of Fallujah or Afghanistan. I realize that if I could actually help out.
So, I went on facebook and said I`m going to Haiti. Who is in? Set me two hours after that. We are on our way to Port-au-Prince.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, let`s get our gauzes. Let`s get our core hats.
WOOD: we got to work setting up a triage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to number the badge.
WOOD: We realized that veterans are really useful in this type of situation. I`m Jake Wood and I want to help veterans transition to civilian life and help others in need.
It started as a triage organization and then we realize that we can help the veteran community as well. We bring these veterans together to be a part of a team once again. They are almost recharged.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you get out, you kind of have that feeling of what are you really doing that`s important in the world? Team Riverton has just provided a great opportunity to help people in need.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to pull your foot back as far as you can.
WOOD: Most of the work we do internationally is emergency medical triage clinics. We`ve gone to Chile, Sudan, Pakistan. Here at home we`ve been in Tuscaloosa, Joplin, doing debris-clearing operations. Search and rescue. We have about 1,400 volunteers. About 80 percent are military veterans. Helping other people is part of the healing process.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t thank you all enough.
WOOD: There`s really no limit to what veterans can do. We have the ability to help and want to serve. I think it`s a win/win situation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The shooter George Zimmerman --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once George Zimmerman said, look, I was fighting to save my own life, he changes everything as far as the ability of the law enforcement in Sanford to go after him on a manslaughter charge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you have a so-called neighborhood watch man who was following a young black man who was unarmed and had committed no crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Straight out to the callers. Marjorie in Texas. Hi, Marjorie.
MARJORIE, CALLER, TEXAS: Hello.
CASAREZ: Thank you for calling. Your thought, your question?
MARJORIE: Yes, I`d like to know why George Zimmerman has not been arrested.
CASAREZ: That`s the question that everybody is asking. If we look just at the law for a second, once George Zimmerman says, and we believe he said, that I acted in self-defense, then there has to be this investigation that`s being done right now because if it is found that legal force was used, they can`t even bring charges, Marjorie. That`s the law in Florida.
But everybody still wants to know, probable cause, that`s there, why is there in arrest? I want to go to Caryn Stark, psychologist out of New York.
You know, Caryn, I think maybe you`re the most important person for us to talk to tonight. because how can we as a country reconcile this, as a nation, as people? Because Trayvon Martin, he was innocent and he was killed.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: And that`s the worst part is that there`s a dead man trialed in this, Jean. So here`s what`s happening is that we have a case of somebody who`s a watchman, a security guard, who turns into Rambo, perhaps, only because he`s been told not to follow but he does.
In the end, we don`t know the facts. And internet, it`s kind of like internet rage, it`s a case of internet rage getting contagious, and it`s spreading like wildfire and it`s not helping anybody. Everyone needs to cool down and wait and see what really happened.
Guns, it`s about guns and people having power who shouldn`t have power. And then, this never would have occurred, but we really don`t know.
CASAREZ: All right. Caryn Stark, words to remember for this weekend.
Tonight, let us stop to remember army sergeant Vincent Owens, 21 years old from Ft. Smith, Arkansas. He was killed in Afghanistan. He was awarded the purple heart. He was passionate about his military career. He loved doing tricks on his sports bike and spending time with his grandparents who he called his rock. His most prized possession was his 2008 mustang.
He leaves behind his grandparents, Earl and Opal, and his widow, Caitlyn. Vincent Owens, a true American hero.
Thank you so much to all of our guests and too you at home. We`ll see you Monday night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, everybody.
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