Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Modesto Teacher Arrested for Previous Sex Assault on Underage Girl
Aired April 09, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Modesto. A 41-year-old high school teacher, married, father of three, dumps his wife to start a new life with a girl student he meets when she`s just 14. Police uncover 8,000 text messages between the two, hotel receipts, damning photos.
The mother takes to FaceBook calling the teacher a, quote, "perverted child molester" and, quote, "a twisted predator."
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, an arrest goes down. The 41- year-old married dad of three lands behind bars, but in a stunning twist, the arrest not linked to Jordan Powers. The teacher is booked and printed over another high school girl victim. And is he caught on tape?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This creeps me out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Outraged.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, he`s more than just...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t seduce your students, period.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a lover...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a lover...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a lover...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They first met when Powers was a high school freshman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s a normal relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uproar.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly when their relationship became physical?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over a student-teacher affair in California.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) the center of a police investigation. James Hooker is 41.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s -- that`s pursuit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: James Hooker has resigned his teaching job.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I couldn`t believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And left his wife and kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was just a student.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You didn`t think twice about it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He would have the audacity to come in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The same week that he moved into an apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To a child`s room, his student, and pack her room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tammie Powers went to the police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we -- I mean, we are sharing life.
GRACE: Eight thousand text messages, photos of her sitting in his lap.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that they`re just digging for something that wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they can show that there was any kind of physical relationship before the age of 18...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right, anything -- they can charge him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He did not deny it. My heart dropped. I felt betrayed. How could he have lied to me for all these months and look me in the eye and tell me he loves me? I don`t know how someone can have such a cold heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was Jordan Powers and former teacher James Hooker on ABC`s "GMA."
Another bombshell tonight! In the next 72 hours, is mass murderer Charles Manson set to walk free?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES MANSON, CONVICTED OF MURDER: I broke no laws, not God`s law nor man`s law.
I`ve had to survive in a world that you guys don`t even have any idea what`s going on!
I`m the man in here. And that`s a fact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live, Modesto. A 41-year-old high school teacher, married father of three, dumps the wife and family for a girl student he meets when he`s -- when she is just 14. And tonight, finally, an arrest goes down.
Straight out to Robyn Walensky, anchor/reporter with "The Blaze." What happened, Robyn?
ROBYN WALENSKY, THE BLAZE (via telephone): Well, Nancy, James Hooker was just arrested for allegedly assaulting a minor, a 17-year-old. She`s a female student. She was in another school district. And he appears by all accounts, Nancy, to be a repeat offender, a pattern of preying on young high school girls that he is much older than them. The current one, Jordan Powers, Nancy -- he`s more than twice her age.
GRACE: To Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com. What`s so stunning, Alexis Tereszcuk, is that he was never arrested for sex with Jordan Powers, another teen girl he meets at his high school. Who is the new girl, dare I put it like that?
ALEXIS tERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: The new girl, the victim, is another 17-year-old girl. And luckily, Jordan`s mother was so tenacious, she just went to the police and said, There have to be other people. The police started investigating. They found not only interviews, but they have physical evidence of this assault.
GRACE: You know, Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," what`s amazing to me is -- for instance, in an armed robbery case, if you were to tell me, Jean, I was armed robbed, and you know, point out Alexis Tereszcuk as the perp, I don`t need corroboration to prove that case.
But in this sex offense on a child, the police actually require corroboration? The words of these two young girls are not enough?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Right. Because the 1998 incident is 14 years ago. So technically, Nancy, the statute of limitations has run after 10 years. But there`s an exception when you have serious sexual contact with a child. And one of the things you need is that corroboration.
GRACE: Ellie Jostad, serious sex contact with a student is required, with the child victim. You are seeing shots we`ve obtained of the 41-year- old Modesto high school teacher with his young lover, Jordan Powell. (sic) Her mom went on a FaceBook rampage.
Ellie, hold on. Let`s take a listen. Here`s what the mom has to say.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TAMMIE POWERS, MOTHER OF JORDAN POWERS (via telephone): There are hotel receipts, however. Those are after she turned 18. He used his Modesto city school e-mail address, his work address, to book those hotel rooms for he and the students. So at this point, we have texting as a minor, that back-and-forth.
I am trying to, as a result of this, get other evidence. I believe there was a sexual relationship. You don`t coincidentally, the day after she turns 18, just blatantly call this student, text her, have this epiphany that you want to be with her. This is grooming and this is pursuit.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Mom, you are so right. In fact, Jordan Powers`s mom is largely responsible, in my mind, for the current arrest.
Ellie Jostad, I never really understood why cops did not make an arrest in this case. Tonight, the 41-year-old married father of three, a Modesto high school teacher, has landed behind bars for sex with yet another underage girl.
What do we know about that case? It says "oral copulation," oral sex on a minor. What do we know about that case, Ellie?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, what prosecutors say happened is that James Hooker befriended this girl, then started a romantic relationship with her. And then in August of 1998, committed this sex assault on her, which they say was oral copulation.
Now, this victim is identified only as Jane Doe. But Jordan Powers, the current girl who was with him -- she says that she was told by him, Hooker, that he went over to this girl`s house. She came out of the bathroom naked. He says he only touched her boobs and her legs and then he got...
GRACE: Whoa! Ellie? Ellie?
JOSTAD: Yes?
GRACE: I assume that that is a quote.
JOSTAD: That is a quote.
GRACE: Not a paraphrasing.
JOSTAD: No. No. Those are her words.
GRACE: So what is a 41-year-old teacher doing over at a high school student`s home alone, a girl student? Why is he there?
JOSTAD: Well, good question. Right. Well, he apparently -- according to what he told Jordan Powers, he met this other victim, other alleged victim, in 1998, met her on line, is what Hooker allegedly told Jordan Powers, went over to hang out as friends.
When the alleged victim came out of the bathroom naked, he admitted, allegedly, to Jordan Powers that he touched, like I said, just her boobs and her legs, and then he got freaked out and left. This is what Jordan Powers says that he told her happened.
GRACE: Well, Ellie, I appreciate that. But let`s hear what Jordan Powers has to say for herself.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JORDAN POWERS (via telephone): He told me that he met her on line and he hung out with her, just was friends. And then he went to her house, and she came out of the bathroom naked. And he only touched her boobs and her legs. And he was freaked out, so he left and he went home. He said nothing else happened, but all of that was a lie.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Uh-uh. Uh-uh. No! No! Unleash the lawyers, Kelly Saindon, former prosecutor, Chicago, Hugo Rodriguez, defense attorney, former FBI, Miami, Holly Hughes, defense attorney, Atlanta.
Since you`re the only male lawyer, Hugo Rodriguez, I`m going to go with you. An underage high school student walks out of the bathroom, and his first impulse is not to go, Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Put on a towel please! Instead of doing that, he walks over and grabs her breasts?
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What was he doing there? In this particular situation, the victim wasn`t his student. He taught at an attendant (ph) high school. But still...
GRACE: Put him up!
RODRIGUEZ: ... at the time, she was 17 -- excuse me?
GRACE: What did you just say? It wasn`t his student?
RODRIGUEZ: She wasn`t his student.
GRACE: So?
RODRIGUEZ: No, she wasn`t his student. He taught at...
GRACE: So?
RODRIGUEZ: ... a different high school.
GRACE: So what?
RODRIGUEZ: I`m not saying -- I`m just saying -- we were talking about teachers and students...
GRACE: Don`t stutter...
RODRIGUEZ: I`m not -- I am not...
GRACE: ... number one!
RODRIGUEZ: ... forgiving him. I`m just saying she wasn`t his student. She was 17 at the time. He was in his late 20s. If it`s true...
GRACE: No! No, no! He was...
RODRIGUEZ: ... then he`s been charged.
GRACE: He was 30. He was 30. And...
RODRIGUEZ: He`s 41 now. It was 14 years ago.
GRACE: She was a student, and your defense is she`s not his student?
RODRIGUEZ: No, no. That`s not my defense. I was just highlighted that.
GRACE: Well, that`s what you (INAUDIBLE) why?
RODRIGUEZ: No, I`m highlighted it -- I don`t disagree that if it can be proven, and they have corroborating information, that they could go forward. But it is 14 years ago and not recently.
GRACE: So?
RODRIGUEZ: Last week, we had a situation where a young girl told the truth about the alleged rape by her father after her father spent nine years in prison. So there`s going to have to be more evidence than the victim`s...
GRACE: What are you trying to say?
RODRIGUEZ: ... word in this case to go forward.
GRACE: Well, what are you trying to say?
RODRIGUEZ: I`m saying that there`s going to have to be more evidence.
GRACE: OK, how about him admitting, him being caught on tape? Holly Hughes, isn`t it true that many, if not all, phone conversations coming out from behind bars are taped?
HOLLY HUGHES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, it is true, Nancy. So while he did admit -- and what he admitted to was touching her legs and her boobs. As you said, that`s a quote. We`re not making that up.
But what he`s been charged with is the oral copulation, the serious sexual. So he hasn`t, quote, unquote, "confessed" to a crime. Now, what he did is morally re reprehensible...
GRACE: No, no! No, no! No, no!
HUGHES: ... but so far, he hasn`t confessed that he did what he`s charged with.
GRACE: Excuse me, but isn`t fondling the breast of an underage girl a crime, Holly Hughes?
HUGHES: Under the statute that they charged him with, I don`t think it`s considered serious sexual contact. He`s been charged with...
GRACE: You don`t think...
HUGHES: ... the oral copulation.
GRACE: You don`t think fondling a girl`s breasts is serious sexual contact? What about it, Ellie Jostad?
HUGHES: Under the statute.
GRACE: What does the law say?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, the law I know does cover more serious sex crimes like rape, lewd and lascivious behavior, which I guess you could...
GRACE: Whoa! Right there.
JOSTAD: Yes. Right.
GRACE: Sorry to interrupt, El!
All right, back to you, Holly Hughes. There`s the law. You just heard it from Ellie Jostad, who`s reading the statute, lewd and lascivious behavior. You want to tell me the -- yes, yes, look it up. Quick, quick! Look it up! I see your paper in your hand.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... lewd and lascivious behavior.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know what? Let me go to another lawyer. What about it, Kelly Saindon? Grabbing her breast is not going to be lewd and lascivious behavior? I`m coming back to you, Holly. Go ahead, Kelly.
KELLY SAINDON, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I certainly think that it is. She`s a minor. She can`t consent. You`re right. He is a teacher. He`s in a position of authority.
GRACE: Oh!
SAINDON: This guy is a serial pedophile and he should be charged.
GRACE: Holly...
SAINDON: And I hope he`s found guilty and...
GRACE: Thank you.
SAINDON: ... they should use the tapes against him.
GRACE: OK, Holly, weigh in. You`ve had a chance to reread the statute. Go ahead.
HUGHES: Right. It is defined. It`s California penal code 1203.066. It says, "Substantial sexual conduct means penetration of the vagina or rectum of the victim by a foreign object, oral copulation or masturbation." It does not include that lewd and lascivious. That might be in a different statute. But the definition...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... in a different statute.
HUGHES: ... under this penal code, 1203.0066, doesn`t define that.
GRACE: You`re hurting my ears. It`s a different statute. And we all know that someone can be prosecuted on a lesser offense than what they are indicted on.
HUGHES: Right.
GRACE: And my point is -- back to you, Jean Casarez -- we`re all familiar with the "sunshine laws" in Florida. Practically every phone conversation and definitely every visit, jailhouse visit, is recorded. So whatever he said in California, which has similar statutes, it`s going to be recorded. He`s most likely caught on tape.
CASAREZ: And Nancy, there are so many crimes that can encompass this umbrella "contributing to the delinquency of a minor." I mean, that`s just one right there.
GRACE: Finally, a 41-year-old father, married father of three and high school teacher, lands behind bars after he openly and notoriously sets up house, shacks up with a teen student. But guess what? He`s not behind bars for that offense but for another offense, the alleged victim coming forward years later.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accused of molesting an underage girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He did not deny it. My heart dropped. I felt betrayed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who had the power? The teacher did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Infamous former teacher who bragged about his relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who did he have control over? The student.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In this case, Jordan is saying it didn`t...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jordan herself is saying nothing happened before she was 18.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You don`t leave your wife and three children without having had sex, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Texting as a minor, that back and forth -- this is grooming and this is pursuit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m confident that in 15 years, there`s not a single student that could come forward and say this happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arrested for sexual assault on a different teenage girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. Bombshell tonight. A 41-year-old Modesto, California, teacher there in the public school system behind bars. This after he sets up house with a teen student who he meets when she`s just 14 years old. Her mother waged war against police on FaceBook, you name it, even to the point where this teacher gets a TRO against the mother!
But stunningly, Ellie Jostad, he`s not behind bars for having sex with the girl he met when she was 14, but for another girl. How did they meet, Ellie?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, it`s not clear how they met. The defendant here, though, James Hooker, allegedly told Jordan Powers, the 18-year-old girl, that he met the `98 accuser on line. Now, whether or not that can be backed up by any kind of evidence, we don`t know at this point.
GRACE: Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert joining us out of Raleigh. This statute absolutely requires corroboration of the girl`s claims. What corroboration could they get as far as technology goes?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): Nancy, we`ve got 8,000 text messages. That comes out to around 21 a day between Mr. Hooker and Jordan. And some of those messages -- there`s five specific messages that the mom, Tammie Jordan (sic) has that are dated July 21st, 2011. That would make Jordan only 17 at the time.
GRACE: Oh, you are going to jail, James Hooker! The 41-year-old high school teacher now accused of sex with two high school students.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) believed (ph) there`s been no impropriety, no sexual relationships. And he lied.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was just, like, I love you, I`m sorry. But I`m not even believing a word he says.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I went to detectives and said, We have a problem here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The teacher-student romance spurred controversy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forty-one-year-old James Hooker, the former Modesto high school teacher...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m elated, but this has been my contention all along, that James Hooker is a predator.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Locked up, accused of molesting an underage girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Allegedly sexually assaulting...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are taking your calls. We are live there in Modesto. To Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "Only the Truth." A lot of legal analysts I know, for instance, Dan Abrams who I argued about this on "GMA" this morning, says there`s no evidence that he actually had sex with Jordan Powers, the teen student at his high school.
But you want to tell me you get rid of one car before you kick the tires on the next car? He dumps his wife and three children, and he`s never had sex with the teen student? No. That`s not true.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I just happened to really love his "to catch a predator" moment when he went on line, goes over to the girl`s house and says what every one of those men on that show says, Oh, I was just coming over here to be her friend, maybe help her with her homework.
And lo and behold, the girl tries to seduce him. So he just -- he doesn`t -- he can`t help himself. Oh, wait a minute. Then he`s a better guy and he leaves. We know all of that is a lie, just like Jordan...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... Pat Brown, that the older male is always innocently standing by to, quote, "help with homework," and the girl just -- the underaged girl just walks out of the bathroom without her clothes on?
BROWN: Well, you know, that`s just the way it works, you know?
GRACE: How often has that ever happened in life? Nobody`s ever just walked out of the bathroom naked on me. Ever.
BROWN: No.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... somebody I hardly know walks out of the bathroom naked.
BROWN: Right. He is the victim and she is the predator. That`s what he`s changing it around to be.
And I want to point something out about grooming. When people use the word "grooming," we often think of months and years. Garbage. Sexual predators don`t waste that kind of time. They groom within -- maybe two or three times. They`re looking for the girl who will fall for whatever they say and fall for it quickly. There`s got to be lots and lots of other women -- let me re-say that -- little girls that he`s been bothering.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Noel is Pennsylvania. Hi. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Nancy, I just wanted to know why is this predator out on bail?
GRACE: I can`t understand why a judge gave him bond. What happened, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: ... in fact, he was even seen riding his bicycle after he was released. Now, he`s going to go to court tomorrow to say it`s excessive bail, wants it even lower than $50,000.
GRACE: Robyn Walensky, he wants his bail lowered? He`s already out on bail. What does he want, a refund?
WALENSKY: It`s really unbelievable, Nancy. As the mother of Jordan has said, he is an arrogant pervert and this -- her daughter was clearly duped.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still with him at this point?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. She`s no longer with James Hooker. I`m elated, but this has been my contention all along, that James Hooker`s a predator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My best friend. I mean he`s more than just a lover.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Had you ever had any other relationships with other students?
JAMES HOOKER, FORMER MODESTO HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER: Never.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Former Modesto high school teacher James Hooker locked up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I told him that we were over.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jordan is Hooker`s former student and became his girlfriend, but she`s not anymore.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I lost everything for this guy. I lost my senior year. I gave up all of my friends at high school because they didn`t agree with me.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: James Hooker was arrested not for his relationship with Jordan, accused of molesting an underage girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m elated, but this has been my contention all along that James Hooker is a predator.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He met her on line and he hung out with her and then he went to her house and she came out of the bathroom naked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He abused his position of authority. And I`ve contended that from day one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was just like, I love you. I`m sorry but I`m not even believing a word he says now. How could he have lied to me for all these months and looked me in the eye and tell me he loved me? He did not deny it. My heart dropped. I felt betrayed. How could he lie to me for all these months and looked me in the eye and tell me he loves me? I don`t know how someone can have such a cold heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Jordan Powers on ABC`s "GMA."
We are taking your calls. In the last hours the 41-year-old high school teacher, married, father of three, lands behind bars. Stunningly, not for sex with a student he met -- he met when she was just 14 years old, but for another alleged high school girl victim.
We are taking your calls, out to Jennifer. Hi, Jennifer, what`s your question?
JENNIFER, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy. I am curious if anyone knows, kind of, where Jordan is standing with her story now? If she`s -- you know, her story, if they`re still together? Or if anyone knows what`s going on.
GRACE: Oh, yes, I am very familiar with that. Let me throw that to you, Alexis Tereszcuk. What is the most recent victim that we know of response?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: She has actually broken up with him. They are no longer together. She has moved out of the apartment that they are sharing. And she says they`re done. She feels completely betrayed. She`s saying he`d lied to her and she wants nothing to do with him anymore.
GRACE: To Owen Lafave, his wife, ex-wife, Deb Lafave, convicted after sex with a 14-year-old student? Producer of "After School." Weigh in, Owen.
OWEN LAFAVE, EX-HUBBY OF DEBRA LAFAVE, CONVICTED OF SEX WITH STUDENT: Well, you know, I will tell you, Nancy, that, you know, 10 to 25 percent of sexual offenders reoffend. So typically, these are not an isolated incident. You know, obviously, you know, this other victim has come forward. I wouldn`t be surprised if there`s others.
I hope, for all intents and purposes, there are no more. But we need to make an example. There needs to be a deterrent. He needs to go to jail. And we need to throw the book at this guy. And I`ll tell you, it`s not only for male sexual offenders, Nancy, but female sexual offenders need to be treated the same.
GRACE: What about that stat, to you, Pat Brown, about re-offending? You know you hear about DUIs, every time someone has caught driving under the influence, they have driven drunk about 50 to 60 other times, that study show. What about in this case? He says he meets his first girl victim that we know of, another high school student, online.
Number one, I don`t know if I believe that`s true. But now we know of two. How many more are out there?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "ONLY THE TRUTH": Well, that statistic, I think, is very, very low. That just means how many they`ve actually caught. Because most of these guys do go through years of not getting caught. If they go online once, they`ve been online hundreds and hundreds of times. And every little girl they see, every teenager that comes into their view, they`re going to play the same game with. So it`s an on going hobby. So I would guess there`s many, many more.
GRACE: Joining me tonight, Dr. Bill Lloyd, board certified surgeon and pathologist joining us tonight out of Sacramento.
Dr. Lloyd, this is in your neck of the woods there in Modesto, California. The statute requires corroboration. Now, for many, many years, that was also included in adult rape cases and we, as prosecutors, had to find corroboration. A torn dress, a bruise, semen, it could be any number of things.
What type of physical corroboration could there be in a case that happened many years ago with another high school student?
DR. BILL LLOYD, BOARD CERTIFIED SURGEON AND PATHOLOGIST: Nancy, without a physical exam, think back, 1998, what happened? The notorious blue dress with Monica Lewinsky.
Now we already here that Hooker says that he became aroused when this woman -- this young girl came out of the bathroom naked. And during the fondling (ph), there may have been a release, there may be a semen stain somewhere and it would have been well preserved. Since 1998, that`s nothing. They could easily retrieve that DNA and make a conviction.
GRACE: To Detective Lieutenant Steven Rogers, Nutley, New Jersey Police Department, former member, FBI.
Detective, could be forensic evidence that Dr. Lloyd was just describing or it could be a series of e-mails --
DET. LT. STEVE ROGERS, NUTLEY, NEW JERSEY, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Oh, yes, absolutely. Yes. The doctor is right. The police are going to have to dig real deep for forensic evidence. Once they got that DNA match, case close.
GRACE: So Robyn Walensky, what type of corroboration would you envision?
ROBYN WALENSKY, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: You know, it`s very possible, Nancy, that after the sexual contact that they discussed it in e-mail and there could be an e-mail paper trail that went back and forth and back and forth, and she could have held onto those e-mails.
GRACE: To Cheryl Arutt, clinical and forensic psychologist, this is a child sex predator. If it had not been for the mother, going to the police station, taking to Facebook, going to their apartment. I mean, this teacher came in and moved out the girl`s things from her home with her mother. Yet, they got a TRO against the mother. A TRO that stuck. This has emboldened him, I think.
CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I think that`s right, Nancy. And I think this mother has done an extraordinary job advocating for her daughter and for other young girls in this position. Because after all, what do we tell our children about teachers. We say do what they tell you to do, do what adults in authority tell you to do. And that gives those adults a special responsibility to be appropriate and not to use that as a violation to take advantage of young people.
GRACE: Everyone, quick break. We are taking your calls to tonight`s case alert. The special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin shooting investigation announces she will not send the case to a grand jury. But that decision should not be a -- considered a factor in the final determination of the case. In other words, they may draw up charges themselves without using a grand jury.
Seventeen-year-old Trayvon Martin gunned down by the captain of neighborhood watch. As of tonight, no arrest. Headline? No grand jury. But our viewers knew that weeks ago. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA COREY, SPECIAL PROSECUTOR ON CASE: Since I`ve been the elected state attorney for the last three years and two months, we have yet to convene a grand jury to determine whether or not to file charges in a justifiable use of deadly force case. We do a thorough investigation. We make that decision ourselves.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have the audacity to come in.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Same week that he moved into an apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To a child`s home, his student, and pack her room.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Tammy Powers went to the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe in God, Charles?
CHARLES MANSON, CONVICTED OF MURDER: Sure, I believe in my self. Why wouldn`t I?
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The murders made headlines, but it was the madman behind them who frightened and fascinated the world.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He is forever frozen in our mind as the youthful leader of a family of killers.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Parole hearing is set for a notorious killer, Charles Manson.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Charles Manson parole hearing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Manson ordered his followers to go on a brutal killing spree.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Manson was sent to California`s death row at San Quentin prison.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Five people were slaughtered here, including the actor Sharon Tate who was 8 1/2 months pregnant with a baby boy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: HE is the cult leader. He`s scheduled to go before the California Board of Prison Terms to try to convince them that he is no longer a threat to society.
MANSON: Yes, I`m terrible -- I`m a terrible guy. Yes, I`m awful. God moves so quick.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We all know what Charles Manson did many years ago. Serial murder who had disciples help him murder a pregnant mom and others. But here`s the bombshell tonight. Charles Manson set to walk free. Walk free in the great state of California.
Straight out to Lew Stowers, reporter, "Metro Networks." Walk free? How is that possible, Lew?
LEW STOWERS, REPORTER, METRO NETWORKS: Well, his parole is coming up on Wednesday, Nancy. And he`s been denied parole 11 times in Corcoran State Prison in California. And at times he said that he doesn`t want his freedom and he considers prison as home. But he still he gets his parole hearing on Wednesday. He told "Vanity Fair" Spain last year he`s Christ- like monitor, a victim of political processes, and a performer, and also thinks Obama is an idiot. I don`t know if he`s a Tea Party member. But --
GRACE: OK. You know what, Lew, I`m going to stop you right there because I really don`t care what Charles Manson thinks about politics.
STOWERS: Right.
GRACE: All right? What I care about is the fact that a mass killer is going to walk free. Set to walk free.
Out to Alisa Statman, author of "Restless Souls," sister of Manson victim, Patti Tate` s partner.
Alisa, thank you for being with us. Alisa, you have written the book literally. What did you learn -- is it true that the murder victims` families were forced to go and clean the blood up off the floor themselves?
ALISA STATMAN, FORMER PARTNER OF PATTI TATE, SHARON TATE`S SISTER: Yes, Sharon`s father, P.J. Tate, went to the house in order to appease a lawsuit that was happening. The owner of the house (INAUDIBLE) was living in filed a $250,000 lawsuit against her estate which P.J. was in charge of. And in order to avoid financial destruction, he went there and scrubbed up Sharon`s blood.
GRACE: So they were actually going to sue the victims` families?
STATMAN: They did sue the victim`s families. It started off as $250,000 after ruining his life --
GRACE: For what?
STATMAN: For damages sustained to the house during the murders.
GRACE: So wait, wait, wait. Why didn`t they sue Charles Manson and his disciples? What did they sue the victim`s families for -- that`s a quarter million.
STATMAN: They want up to even more, up to $500,000. And it stems from all the fallacies that were printed about Sharon in the press right after the murders and one that sticks in my mind is "Live freaky, die freaky," as if these people brought these murders on themselves. And this is a result of some things that can happen when someone else is blamed for their own murder. Even after the Manson family was caught, the owner of the house continued the lawsuit against the Tate family.
GRACE: Alisa Statman, author of "Restless Souls."
I want to go now to special guest, Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Manson. He is the author of "Helter Skelter."
Vincent, thank you for being with us. Vincent, what do you make of Charles Manson being interviewed by "Vanity Fair" and giving all his thoughts on politics?
VINCENT BUGLIOSI, PROSECUTED MANSON CASE: Well, they`re completely irrelevant. He`s become so notorious that we don`t draw the line on people who are notorious, even if it`s deep in infamy and say we`re not going to talk to you because you`re a bad person so that doesn`t surprise me at all.
GRACE: But what`s also burning me up -- I want to throw this in addition to Bugliosi. I want to throw this out to you, Alisa, the fact that Charles Manson has a Web site, he`s got thousands of Twitter followers, they send him money behind bars, so he can get his Doritos out of the vending machine and other perks? Why?
STATMAN: You know, he`s got a continued following. He`s able to get cell phones in prison. They`re smuggled in to him. It`s been an ongoing problem in the prison systems in California. And it`s unbelievable to me that anyone would support him, but they do. His Web site sells his artwork, artwork that, I might, that has the victim`s bodies embedded in them.
It`s almost a slap in the face -- it`s a complete slap in the face to the victims that he`s done.
(CROSSTALK)
STATMAN: But he`s mocking the people --
GRACE: Hold on. I want everybody to see The parole board number, 916-255-2758. Who knows if they`ll listen to Bugliosi and keep this guy -- this guy behind bars. Charles Manson parole hearing in less than 72 hours.
To Anthony DiMaria, the nephew of J.C. Brink, murdered by the Manson family.
Anthony, thank you for being with us. What is the family`s response to this hearing set to go down in 72 hours?
ANTHONY DIMARIA, NEPHEW OF JAY SEBRING, MURDERED BY MANSON FAMILY: Well, I think it`s kind of -- like with all parole hearings we`re always -- our feelings and thoughts are always with Jay and the other victims. But it is disturbing to see the different tension in our point that goes towards the killers and the fascination of murders. But I think that there`s something cultural there that needs to be looked at and that is the massive amount of exploitation and (INAUDIBLE) that is responsible for Manson fascination. And also the distorted Manson mythology or at least the mythology surrounding these murders.
And so it`s with the victims that we`re always --
GRACE: Right.
DIMARIA: So we --
GRACE: Jean Casarez -- you`re hearing from Anthony DiMaria, relative of Jay Sebring, murdered by Manson and his family.
Jean Casarez, he`s got thousands of Twitter followers. They send him money behind bars. Somebody is operating a Web site for him. Not only that, could you tell me, Jean, how he managed to get his mitts on two cell phones? He is a mass murderer.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Two cell phones. And I think that`s the important thing to bring out here. His last parole hearing, 2007, 2009, phone found under the bed. He was calling people in California, Oregon, Florida, and then in 2011, January, another cell phone was found in his cell and numbers were tracked in various states including New Jersey.
Who is he calling? Who`s calling him?
GRACE: I don`t understand this. I don`t understand this, Vincent Bugliosi, you`re one of the greatest trial lawyers there`s ever been. You know the Constitution. If convicted felons are not allowed to vote in various jurisdiction, then why is he allowed to have a Twitter account, to have followers, to have a Web site that rakes in money? Why, Vincent?
BUGLIOSI: Well, he should not have had. It was snuck in there. I don`t know about the Twitter thing. But the cell phone was taken away from him immediately. I think many people forget, Nancy, that Manson originally was sentenced to death. I told the jury that if this was not a proper case, with the imposition of the death penalty, no case ever would be.
In fact, I actually challenged the jury and said if you`re unwilling to come back with a verdict of death in this case, then we should abolish the death penalty in the state of California. How many people do you have to kill to get the death penalty and they did return a verdict of death against Manson. But the very next year, 1972, a Georgia case, Furman versus Georgia, as you know, Nancy.
GRACE: I do.
BUGLIOSI: U.S. Supreme Court and the California Supreme Court both ruled that the death penalty was unconstitutional, not per se, but the way it was being carried out, implemented by the state. There were no guidelines for the jury. And they told -- they held --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Have you ever seen the hit series "Raising Hope" on FOX? Well, surprise. I`m going to be popping up on the season finale of "Raising Hope" part one, Tuesday, April 10th, 9:30. That`s tomorrow night. A special thank you to all of the cast and crew at "Raising Hope."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I`m walking and talking at Howdy`s Market in the heart of Natesville. A friendly place where one out of every two customers shop for groceries while riding on rascals. But April 9th, 2008, there was a very different kind of rascal at Howdy`s. A rascal known as a murder. Jimmy Chance was enjoying his fame, but eventually he became old news and his high from being a celebrity came crashing down harder than a contestant on "Dancing with the Stars," who was voted off way too early.
Virginia Slims Chance, named by a desperate mother in a futile attempt to get a free carton of cigarettes. A girl of simple tastes, little things made her happy. A snowman, a gerbil named Martha. Learning to spell S words. But in 2008, a string of murders made her life very complicated.
MARTHA PLIMPTON, "VIRGINIA CHANCE: I was immediately inquisical of this mystery. I watch a lot of "CSI", "SBU", "NCIS." If a show has got letters in it, I am so there.
GARRETT DILLAHUNT, "BURT CHANCE": Hey.
PLIMPTON: What?
DILLAHUNT: Have you seen my sunglasses? I want to take the lenses out so I look smart in my interview.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Air Force Sergeant William Jefferson, Jr., 34, Norfolk, Virginia, killed Afghanistan. Served Marines. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Air Force Combat Action Medal. Loved sky diving, "Texas Hold `Em." Dreamed of being a high school teacher. A military fitness center and airfield named in his honor.
Also honored with a Master`s from Webster University. Leaves behind parents, Linda and William, Sr., sister, Tammy, widow, Christy, daughters Tyler and Natalie.
William Jefferson, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. Our thoughts and prayers to Nova Scotia friend Evelyn in the fight of a lifetime, battling breast cancer. Saw her dream come true, her grandson graduating high school.
Evelyn, stay strong.
And happy birthday to South Carolina friend, Kathy. Loves movies, puppy, Mr. T, friends, family. Happy birthday.
Everyone, for more on the Trayvon Martin shooting case, watch "Dr. Drew" coming up next. I`ll see you tomorrow might, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
