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Nancy Grace

Zimmerman Judge Considers Recusal

Aired April 13, 2012 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Sanford, Florida. A 17-year-old heads home to his dad`s condo, gunned down by the captain of neighborhood watch. Forty-four long days after the shooting death of unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, an arrest goes down, George Zimmerman in court on murder 2 charges.

Bombshell tonight. New details in a police affidavit emerge, outlining the state`s case for murder 2. In the last hours, another court hearing tonight as Zimmerman sits in protective custody at a county jailhouse. Reports he spends his first night crying inconsolably behind bars. And finally, Zimmerman reaching out to the parents of Trayvon Martin to apologize. As a bail hearing in the works and a trial date looming, tonight, you hear the evidence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Zimmerman, you`re appearing here for your first appearance at this time for a charge of...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Murder in the second degree.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just said he shot (INAUDIBLE) the person is dead, laying on the ground!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Zimmerman has made the statement of self- defense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that true?

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t believe that it was an accident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Special prosecutor says George Zimmerman profiled an unarmed teen.

ZIMMERMAN: Real suspicious guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Believing he was a criminal.

SYBRINA FULTON, TRAYVON`S MOTHER: Our son was not committing any crimes!

POLICE DISPATCHER: Are you following him?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

POLICE DISPATCHER: OK, we don`t need you to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had an intent in his mind and he carried out the intent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George realizes that he was involved in the death of another young man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And spent much of his first night in jail weeping.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George has been telling the truth the whole time, that the truth will come out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zimmerman`s attorney now says his client is open to directly reaching out to Trayvon Martin`s family.

FULTON: The absolute worst news that you can tell a mother, her child is dead. I didn`t believe it then. I still have issues believing it now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You just saw Zimmerman`s lawyer on ABC`s "GMA." Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

New details emerge in a police affidavit outlining the state`s case for murder 2. Tonight, Zimmerman in protective custody at a county jailhouse, reports he spent his first night behind bars crying inconsolably, and finally reaching out to the parents of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin to apologize. As a bail hearing in the works tonight and a trial date looming, you hear the evidence.

Straight out to Dustin Weis with WIOD, joining us out of Florida. Dustin, what`s the latest?

DUSTIN WEIS, WIOD NEWSRADIO 610: Well, Nancy, we`re told these have been a rough couple of nights for George Zimmerman. Law enforcement sources tell ABC that he`s...

GRACE: Hey, hey, hey, hey! I bet it`s a lot rougher in Trayvon Martin`s coffin. Think about it. Go ahead.

WEIS: Certainly. Cried himself to sleep these last couple of nights in the Sanford -- or the Seminole County lockup, rather. His new attorneys have also repeatedly said he`s in a very fragile state. He`s very deeply regretful for Trayvon`s death, that he would, in fact, like to apologize to Trayvon`s family, though the logistics of that kind of remain a little bit tricky for the foreseeable future, Nancy. As to...

GRACE: I don`t see what`s tricky about it. What do you mean by that? Dustin Weis, don`t throw me a little grenade like that without explaining what you`re talking about. What do you mean, logistics make it difficult? Guess what they have there in the jail? A phone. Now, what`s difficult about that?

WEIS: (INAUDIBLE) I`m sorry?

GRACE: Repeat?

WEIS: Oh, it would be possible, I suppose, to drag Trayvon`s family into the jail and set them up at the visitors` window, but it seems unlikely at this point that that`s something...

GRACE: Dustin?

WEIS: ... that the attorneys for either group would feel like going ahead with.

GRACE: Dustin? Dustin?

WEIS: Yes, Nancy?

GRACE: They have phones in the jailhouse. Did you know that?

WEIS: And in fact, we know that Trayvon -- that George Zimmerman has purchased a phone card with the $80 that he`s spent so far in the Seminole County jail commissary, among some crossword puzzle books and some snacks, as well.

GRACE: So my question to you -- you`re saying the logistics make it difficult for him to apologize. You`d would have to, quote, "drag Trayvon Martin`s family to the jailhouse." But that`s absolutely not true. All Zimmerman has to do is pick up the phone and let his fingers do the walking, all right? That`s it.

He`s there at a Seminole County jailhouse. They`ve got phones. He`s got a phone card. So if he wants to reach out, if he wants to apologize, he doesn`t need a lawyer to do it for him. He can do that. Am I right or wrong, Dustin Weis?

WEIS: You are absolutely right, Nancy. And in fact, that`s what his new attorney has said they`d like to have him do at this point. They say that he doesn`t want to apologize through the media, that he doesn`t want to apologize through attorneys, that he`d like to set it up, in fact, so that they can do it face to face at some point here.

But again, whether they can make those arrangements prior to the conclusion of these legal proceedings, that`s yet to be seen.

GRACE: You know what? To you, Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine. You`re on the story along with Dustin Weis out of WIOD. But Steve Helling, look, I`m not blind. I`m not deaf, dumb and blind. I understand what`s happening here.

They were likely very much, legally speaking, concerned about making an apology to the family because many people believe -- not me -- that that suggests consciousness of guilt. That`s why a lot of people don`t go, "I`m sorry."

But in this case, Steve Helling, there`s never been a question that he`s the shooter. He said he was the shooter. His scenario about how the shooting went down is different than what a lot of people think, but there`s never been an issue that he was the shooter, so an apology really cannot hurt him legally.

There`s no question as to who the shooter is. Get it?

STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Well, yes. Of course. But you know, it`s the same idea as they always say if you hit somebody with your car, you don`t get out and say, Oh, I`m sorry, because that is...

GRACE: Really?

HELLING: ... an admission of guilt.

GRACE: Who`s they? Who is "they," Steve Helling?

HELLING: Well, my dad always told me that, so I`m going to go with my dad.

GRACE: So your dad said don`t apologize. OK.

HELLING: No, but you know...

GRACE: No offense to your father. But go ahead.

HELLING: My dad`s wonderful, but you know, I understand what you`re saying. But the point is that, you know, obviously, he will have to be careful about what he says, and that`s, of course, what his lawyer is there to do, is to kind of help him through that.

GRACE: Explain to me also what`s happening, Ellie Jostad, regarding the bond hearing. When is that going to go down? And I`m also understanding that the judge, Recksiedler, is going to be on vacation, essentially at some seminar. Look, when the judges say they`re having a seminar, it`s a vacation.

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, well...

GRACE: She may speak at the seminar, but it`s still a vacation.

JOSTAD: Yes, we`re told...

GRACE: So when he wants to have a bond hearing, she`s going to be on vacation? They can`t work that out?

JOSTAD: Well, apparently, they may be able to do that, Nancy. We`re expecting that a bond hearing could happen next week. The details are being worked out right now. It`s possible that another judge could take over that bond hearing, which happens often when there`s scheduling conflicts. So we could see him back in court as early as next week.

GRACE: In the last hours, the police affidavit has emerged, and we have gone through it with a fine-toothed comb. The affidavit is a PC -- probable cause -- affidavit that was presented to lay out the state`s case of murder 2.

What did we learn, if anything, Ellie?

JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, this probable cause statement is very revealing, Nancy. It says that Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin, that he believed or assumed Trayvon Martin was a criminal, that he actually perceived that Trayvon Martin was looking suspicious and that he made reference to people that he thought had committed and gotten away with robberies in his neighborhood, that he referred to Martin and said, These "a-holes," they always get away, and, These "F-ing punks."

GRACE: Joining me right now, CNN correspondent Mattingly. Hey, hey! How`re you doing? Thanks for being with us. What can you tell us about some breaking news, that the judge is considering recusing herself?

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That hearing expected to be under way possibly as we`re speaking right now, not knowing what the conclusion of that is. We`ve been hearing from people in the know that that is a possibility. But we`re still waiting to hear officially from the judge herself. So we`re all right now sort of in the mix, waiting to see the next turn in this very high-profile case, Nancy.

GRACE: With me there at John E. Polk Correctional Facility -- right behind David Mattingly is the facility housing Zimmerman. David, again, thank you for being with us. What can you tell us about Zimmerman`s first night behind bars?

MATTINGLY: Well, we know that he`s in protective custody. That`s according to his attorney. That seems like a very smart move. There`s been a lot of anger that`s been directed at him, so it seems appropriate that authorities would even have a big interest in making sure that they maintain his safety behind bars here during the course of these proceedings.

We also know that he made purchases at the store there. He purchased snacks, he purchased some clothes, he purchased some things to work the time away, like a deck of cards, apparently looking like that he was going to be there for a few days.

And now we`re hearing that, tentatively, there`s going to be a bond hearing a week from today. If that`s the case, he`s going to be there a week before he has his first chance to actually get out of there.

GRACE: In the last hours, a status conference on the table. Unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Bradford Cohen, defense attorney out of the Florida jurisdiction, and a special guest joining us exclusively, Judge Stan Strickland, retired judge from Orlando`s ninth circuit court.

Judge, thank you for being with us.

JUDGE STAN STRICKLAND, FMR. CASEY ANTHONY JUDGE: Thank you for having me.

GRACE: Judge, in the last hours, breaking news has emerged that the judge, Recksiedler, on this case, may recuse herself. Why?

STRICKLAND: That`s news to me. This is the first I`ve heard of it, and it could be myriad reasons that this might have come up, even something that happened weeks ago with one of the lawyers. I have no idea. But as you know, a judge has to err on the side of caution, so it could be happening.

GRACE: Judge, break it down with me. With me, retired judge out of this jurisdiction, Judge Stan Strickland. When you say -- we`re talking about recusing, and you`re talking about even the appearance of impropriety -- break it down for us in street terms, in a layperson`s vernacular.

STRICKLAND: If there`s a reason to believe that a judge won`t be or can`t be fair, then generally, one side or the other will move to recuse the judge and get the judge out of the case.

It can be anything. It doesn`t have to be about this case, it can be about a comment that was made six months ago to one of the lawyers. There are so many reasons, we can`t get into all of them now. But if one side thinks that the judge just may not be able to be fair, then they can file the motion. And if it`s legally sufficient, the judge has to recuse him or herself.

GRACE: And sometimes, Judge, isn`t it true that a judge would voluntarily recuse themself to avoid even the appearance of impropriety? Whether it`s true or grounded in facts may not even matter. It`s just that the appearance of impropriety may be enough for a judge to go, You know what? To heck with it. I`m getting off the case.

STRICKLAND: That`s exactly right. And it happens more than you know. In fact, in the Casey Anthony case, the judge that was supposed to take over for me recused himself, and that`s how I remained on the case after I moved into a civil division.

GRACE: Right. I recall that whole drama. With me, Judge Stan Strickland, also taking your calls. Joining me right now, in addition to Peter Odom and Bradford Cohen, Daryl Parks, the attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family, is joining us.

Mr. Parks, thank you for being with us. We understand at this juncture, Judge Recksiedler may recuse herself off the case. But we also understand that George Zimmerman spent the first night behind bars crying inconsolably and wants very much, regardless of the impact it may have at trial, to apologize to Trayvon Martin`s family. What is your response, as the family attorney?

DARYL PARKS, ATTORNEY FOR TRAYVON MARTIN`S FAMILY: Well, part of it, I would say, he had 45 days to issue an apology. Now that he`s in jail, he`s apologetic. I will say, though, this mother and father are Christian people, and they probably do have a spirit of forgiveness. How long would it take them to forgive? I don`t know. But you know, they`re Christian people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody would deny the fact that if George Zimmerman were walking down the street today, he would be at risk. And that`s just the reality. That`s just the way things are right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FULTON: Absolute worst news that you can tell a mother.

TRACY MARTIN, TRAYVON MARTIN`S FATHER: Most certainly the worst news that I ever had to deliver.

FULTON: Her child is dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Facing a judge for the first time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Zimmerman, you`re appearing here for your first appearances.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just hoping that his mental health stays well.

FULTON: He had an intent in his mind and he carried out the intent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Behind bars for George Zimmerman, and that`s where he`ll be for the foreseeable future.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charge of murder in the second degree.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state also maintains that the cry for help so many 911 callers heard -- that was Trayvon Martin.

POLICE DISPATCHER: Do you think he`s yelling help?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Formal arrangement with Judge Recksiedler.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Horrible intersection of two young men`s lives, and it ended in tragedy.

FULTON: Pictures that they have out there, he smiled and he was a happy child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. At this hour, we learn not only the details of the police affidavit outlining the state`s case for murder 2 charges against George Zimmerman, but we also learn that the judge is now making murmurings that she will recuse herself, take herself, remove herself off this case.

I want to go out to Natisha Lance. standing there at the Sanford jail. Natisha, what do you know about why the judge is making murmurings about taking herself off the case?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, at this point, it`s all speculation. We don`t know for sure if that is what the judge is going to do. But that is what we are hearing at this point, that Judge Jessica Recksiedler may be asking to recuse herself from this case.

We don`t know why. We don`t know of any comments that she has made prior to this case going forward about either side, either about Trayvon Martin or about George Zimmerman, but that is what we are hearing at this point. But it is developing and it is fluid.

GRACE: What do we know about the judge? Let`s see a shot, Liz, of Judge Jessica J. Recksiedler. We know she got a degree in accounting. She`s no idiot. She got her law degree at Stetson College of Law in Florida. She`s civil trial lawyer, former prosecutor, lots of trial experience. That`s what we know about her.

What I don`t understand, Peter Odom, is why she would consider taking herself off the case.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. We won`t know until that`s announced, Nancy. It could be a lot of reasons, maybe a connection to George Zimmerman or his family, maybe a connection to the victim`s family. It could be anything. But the judge has to be very careful in a high- profile case like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FULTON: We simply wanted an arrest. We wanted nothing more, nothing less, we just wanted an arrest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is just the beginning. We got a long way to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to keep him safe. I want him to get through his trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman, the Florida watch volunteer, now an accused murderer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Zimmerman, you`re appearing here for your first appearance at this time for a charge of murder in the second degree.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Zimmerman needs a very good and focused defense, so we`re going to build him one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... he calls a life-altering event.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s only been charged, and we have to continue to fight and fight and fight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to figure out how it happened.

FULTON: I don`t believe that it was an accident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He might be responsible for it.

FULTON: He carried out the intent, and that`s why my son is no longer with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Straight out to Dave Mattingly. Dave, the reality is that the reason the judge is considering recusing herself is because her husband works in a law firm that is connected to a request from Zimmerman for representation. Break it down for me, David Mattingly.

MATTINGLY: Well, that`s what we`ve got confirmation out of the courtroom on. We know that that is exactly what this hearing is about now.

But we have to step back and look at the big picture here. There is so much scrutiny on this case, not only on George Zimmerman and what he allegedly did, but on the justice system, as well. So all throughout this process, you`re going to see every participant in here going to extreme lengths to make sure there`s a great deal of transparency and no room for doubt about how this process is going forward.

So you`re seeing a very heightened sensitivity when there was so much criticism about the justice system at the very beginning, about why there was no arrest, about why it took so long for an arrest of George Zimmerman.

So now everyone making sure that they`re moving forward very carefully, very methodically, and in a way that won`t be questioned in the future, Nancy.

GRACE: As it should be, David Mattingly. Ellie Jostad, break it down for me as to why the judge is even considering taking herself off the case.

JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, the judge`s husband works at a personal injury law firm -- or is a personal injury lawyer at a law firm. That same law firm employs Mark Nejame, who is an analyst for both CNN and HLN. Nejame says that his office had been contacted by Zimmerman, a representative for Zimmerman, asking for representation. So that`s how this conflict arises.

And apparently, it was mentioned by Mark O`Mara, Zimmerman`s attorney. He`s the one who`s bringing up now in that hearing.

GRACE: Got it. Judge Stan Strickland, if that`s all it is, that doesn`t sound like grounds for recusal for me, that her husband works at a firm that was once contacted about getting a lawyer because O`Mara doesn`t work for that lawfirm. There`s no connection. Just because a call came in looking for a lawyer means nothing.

STRICKLAND: Yes, I don`t think it`s automatic recusal. The question is, what has the judge talked about with her husband and what does O`Mara`s client feel about this?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What prosecutors say happened the night George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She asked me how and why, and I didn`t have an answer for her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the affidavit for probable cause says that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon Martin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He then continue to walk towards Trayvon Martin.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, SHOT TRAYVON MARTIN: I don`t want to approach him, personally.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He profiled Trayvon martin.

ZIMMERMAN: He`s coming to check me out. He`s got something in his hands. I don`t know what his deal is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Zimmerman instead --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: All this amidst the new revelation that the judge who has only been on the case for a couple days is now considering removing herself off the case. This after it`s been brought to the judge`s attention that her husband works for the firm that Zimmerman`s people first contacted to say, hey, I need a lawyer.

O`Mara, his defense lawyer, is not with the judge`s husband`s law firm. Mark O`Mara, the lawyer for George Zimmerman, not connected to the judge`s husband`s law firm.

I want to go straight out to David Mattingly. David, what more do you know?

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we know now is that the judge has sort of left it up to the attorneys to file a motion if they want the judge to recues herself in this case. And she wants them to do it before the bond hearing a week from today so that they can get this all taken care of so that she can consider it, make a decision before this actually gets going in earnest with that bond hearing next Friday. So the wheels are in motion, it`s in the court of the attorneys for them to decide if they want to ask her to recues herself, and she will consider it as we go forward.

GRACE: You know, I want to clear up how judges get assigned cases.

Back to you, judge Stan Strickland. When I was a prosecutor, I prosecuted in a very big metropolitan area. There were hundreds of cases indicted, new cases, new felonies, every week. 3 to 500 cases every week. And I think at that time we had 12 courts running. You divide up -- let`s say 400 new cases a week between those 12 courts.

So every Monday and Friday, I would get a giant stack of felony cases filed just laying all over the front of my -- the top of my desk. They were in that jurisdiction assigned by computer. One week I could get ten shoplifting, felony shopliftings. The next week I might get ten murder cases, rape cases, whatever. They were assigned by number. Regardless to the nature of the case, you got an indictment number and the computer assigned it to judges. The only way it would go to a specific judge is if that defendant had had a case before -- in front of another judge, then that case would go back to that judge. How does it work in that jurisdiction?

JUDGE STAN STRICKLAND, FRIENDS WITH ZIMMERMAN`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s somewhat similar. It`s generally random with some tweaking done by the criminal division chief who can -- you know, if you get a case that you have a problem with, you can do a quick e-mail out to the division chief and say, hey, I`m not sure I should be on this, and before anything happens, the criminal chief can send it to somebody else, or there`s occasionally some griping, I suppose, about, hey, I gotten murder cases in the last six months, how about giving me a little break here?

GRACE: Wait, wait, are you telling me the judges get back in their luxury chambers and whine that they`ve got too many cases?

STRICKLAND: I know it`s hard to believe, but sometimes there is a bit of an imbalance and the chief judge straightens that out. It`s generally random.

GRACE: All the judges do is sat up on the bench and rule. They`re kind of like a referee. What do they care if they`re listening to ten murder cases or ten shoplifting cases. They`re just a referee. They`re not down there getting dirty, and sweaty and bloody like the lawyers.

STRICKLAND: Generally, they don`t care. But, if there`s any imbalance in the way it`s being done, they would like it to be straighten out.

GRACE: OK. Well, I guess I will argue with that, about that with you later. With me, Daryl Parks, attorney for Martin`s Family.

Daryl Parks, what do you make of the judge possibly kicking herself off the bench?

DARYL PARKS, TRAYVON MARTIN `S FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, in our system, Nancy, we try to make sure there is no impropriety of any sort as fair. And I think this judge will make the right decision once the lawyers filled the motions that she has requested. And so, it made -- she just wants to be fair to everyone, that`s what our system wants, and I`m sure she`ll do the right thing.

GRACE: I want to go to Bradford Cohen, defense attorney out of Florida jurisdiction. Apparently George Zimmerman spent the first night behind bars crying. A lot of people have poked fun at that. I`m not saying Zimmerman is guilty, I`m not saying he`s innocent. But typically, my experience with fellow inmates, is they cry when they get in front of me, the prosecutor. The fact he`s crying alone in his jail cell may suggest that it`s hitting home. I mean, all this time he`s been outgoing, am I going to get charged, am I going to get charged? In fact, we got a report in the last hours before I came to sentence anchor chair, that he was led to believe he may not get charged until, boom, there`s an arrest warrant.

So up until now, he`s had other things on his mind. Am I going to get charged? Where can I go? Are people going to find my house and throw a Molotov cocktail to the window? Is my car going to be car bomb, blah, blah, blah.

Now he`s sitting there and he is finally alone behind bars, thinking. Now, I`m going to assume the best and assume that he`s crying over the death of Trayvon Martin because I now know he wants to reach out to the Martin family and apologize for what happened. Usually they save all that until they get in front of the prosecutor, so what do you make of it, Cohen?

BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, to be quite honest with you, I mean, I haven`t had a lot of defendants that have cried in court. I`ve had a lot of defendants that the first night -- maybe because they didn`t have me as their attorney. But when they`re in jail, and they are sitting in jail, and it`s your first night in jail and you`re all by yourself --

GRACE: You don`t mind tooting your own horn, do you, Bradford?

COHEN: I never did. But as long as you`re sitting in a cell and you are all by yourself, and you insult her, and confide have no contact with anyone, it`s not just that it`s hitting home that he`s in jail. I think he`s truly sorry for the events of that evening. I think the events of that evening just spiraled out of control. And the one thing led to the next, it was a bad decision after bad decision.

No matter who you think is right or who you think is wrong, this is an awful situation for both individuals. (INAUDIBLE). His parents seem to be very nice people. I don`t know all the facts in this case. They will come out over a time period, but he is miserable in jail because it`s his first night, not just because it`s his first night in jail but because he`s very sorry for what he did.

GRACE: to Judge Stan Strickland, retired judge out of Orlando`s ninth circuit.

Judge, this was supposed to have been just a status conference today, and as it turned out, it all kind of went -- the whole place went up for grabs about the judge getting thrown off the case, bond hearing, all sorts of other collateral issues went down today. So, you never know what`s going to happen with a routine hearing?

What is a status hearing, judge?

STRICKLAND: First of all, this is life in real time, and it`s all going on and you are getting to see it as it happens. So then used to occur that way. But, generally a status hearing can be for anything. It can be just at a request of one of the lawyers, it can be about scheduling, it can be about a problem, it can be about a motion. And apparently that`s what happened here, and this is a bit of a surprise, but a status hearing can be for or about anything. It can be called in a moment`s notice and the lawyers just gather and talk.

GRACE: Hey, judge, have you ever had defendants break down and start crying in court?

STRICKLAND: One or two.

GRACE: Well, you know, judge, for many, many years, I had my jailhouse pre-trial like when you`re trying to work out a plea done with the defense attorney and the jail mate and me. They cried all the time.

STRICKLAND: Yes. Yes. When push comes to shove at sentencing day, we did see some of it.

GRACE: Everyone, quick break. We are taking your calls.

But tonight, two of the cases are miracles. Two cases we feature here first, missing Georgia woman Andrea Blackwell last heard in a phone call to her father after our show found safe.

Missing 7-year-old boy Minnesota boy believed autistic, Wyatt Nordrom, just hours after we published this case, he is found alive. Wyatt and his alleged kidnapper found in an isolated cabin. The 7-year-old now reunited with his mother.

Everyone, our album is back to taking your photos from ireport. Here are Ohio friends the Chapmans`. Dad, Osmon stationed in Afghanistan set to reunite with his wife, Samantha, and son, Mason, in Germany in June. They love traveling Europe.

Everyone, share your photos with us to ireport family album. Go to hlntv.com/nancygrace and click on Nancy`s family album.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Zimmerman is behind bars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trayvon saved my life when he was nine years old.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re charging George Zimmerman with murder in the second degree.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Zimmerman, you`re a here for your first appearances --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are against is released at this point --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charge of murder in the second degree.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I know my son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trayvon was my hero.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zimmerman has committed a murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He pulled me out of a house fire.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s just an average teenager.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: We are taking your calls.

In the last hours, a bombshell. What was planned to be a routine status conference in the George Zimmerman case, suddenly it looks as though the judge may take her own self off the case. Not only that, with a trial date looming and a bond hearing yet to be heard, a lot going down in the case of George Zimmerman, commonly known as the Trayvon Martin shooting.

Out to the line is Joelle, Ohio. Hi Joelle, what`s your question?

JOELLE, CALLER, OHIO: Hi, Nancy. My question is, how was Trayvon able to attack George Zimmerman with candy and a iced tea in his pants?

GRACE: OK. Let`s go to Frank Taaffe joining us friend and neighbor of George Zimmerman. Mr. Taaffe, can you respond to Joelle in Ohio?

FRANK TAAFFE, FRIEND, NEIGHBOR OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Hi Nancy. Yes, I can. The candy and iced tea were in Trayvon`s waistband inside his hoodie. Trayvon, as he escaped, when he ran away from Mr. Zimmerman, according to the 911 tapes, he turned around and he pursued -- he went back and he became the aggressor. So your skittles and your iced tea are a moot point. They don`t even come into play here. So let`s get off that. Let`s talk about who the real aggressor was here. Please.

GRACE: Mr. Taaffe.

TAAFFE: yes.

GRACE: As much as you would like to quote "get off the skittles and the iced tea" --

TAAFFE: Yes.

GRACE: Whenever a self-defense claim is made - you know, let`s bring in the lawyers on this. Daryl Parks, lawyer for Martin`s family, Judge Stan Strickland joining us tonight. Retired judge out of Orlando`s ninth circuit. Peter Odom, former prosecutor, veteran defense attorney, Bradford Cohen, defense attorney out of the Florida jurisdiction.

Whenever self-defense is brought up, gentlemen, you can hear Zimmerman`s claim. It sounds like he may have to take the stand himself if he wants to make a self-defense claim. And it is important that there are skittles and an iced tea in Martin`s pocket because as Zimmerman state, I saw him reach for his pocket. The fact he has anything in his pocket at all goes to support Zimmerman`s claim. You have the right to scream at me if they want. I`m just telling you what the law is.

If he has something in his pocket and he was reaching for it. Whether it was a cell phone and riding pants, skittles. I see doesn`t matter, it support Zimmerman`s claim. Hey, I saw him reach in his pocket then the question becomes, does it not, judge, was that fear of Zimmerman`s face in reason substantiated in fact. It`s not about a valid self-defense claim, judge.

STRICKLAND: Yes. I agree. There has to be a reasonable fear, a serious bodily harm and it is just has to be reasonable. You are exactly right. If there was something he reached for, that`s a fact in Mr. Zimmerman`s favor. I don`t how it is going to play out because I don`t know exactly how this happened.

GRACE: Well, I don`t know, either. And Peter, you know, you and I have been on the same side and opposing side. You are former prosecutor, now, defense lawyer.

Typically if the victim in this case, Trayvon Martin, was reaching for something, that would help Zimmerman. Then the jury is going to find out that it was skittles. That has not so helpful.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. And anything that goes to show George Zimmerman`s claim was reasonable, goes his claims of self-defense. Look, Florida law is very favorable for people in George Zimmerman`s position because of this "Stand Your Ground" law. George Zimmerman has a very high chance of getting off of this based on self-defense.

GRACE: OK, Bradford Cohen. Let`s talk about what is going to go down.

All right, we got a status conference today. It started off very innocent and all blew up like in an Naples (ph) with the judge now considering (INAUDIBLE) set off the case. But we`ve got a bail hearing set up. What are we going to do about the judge being on vacation. Let the man sit there and rot while she is on vacation? That`s a good answer. Can another judge hear the bail hearing?

COHEN: Yes, Nancy. Generally.

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: Yes. he absolutely has the right to be heard and he will be heard. Usually what happens is if a judge is on vacation or the judge is at a conference, a duty judge will take over or the chief judge will assign it to another judge. And that judge will hear it.

Now, that isn`t always what you want. Sometimes you want to be in front of the judge. It is going to be eventually hear the case.

GRACE: And to you, Daryl Parks. How does Martin`s family feel about Zimmerman getting bond? I don`t know that he is going to be granted bonded or if he can even make bonds. But what`s their position on Zimmerman walking free.

PARKS: Well, right now, we believe there should be a no bond situation. I mean, this guy, obviously, having some serious memory issues right now.

GRACE: Yes?

PARKS: And certainly he, you know, has some real concerns about whether or not this guy was safe to put back on the streets at this time. He ought to sit there until we have more proceedings for this particular case.

GRACE: Everyone. We are taking your calls but now, CNN heroes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID WING-KOVARIK, CNN HEROES: I was adopted and I felt that I wanted to do it on kids who needed a home.

My son was in foster care for four years, but from the minute Michael and I met, I knew right away in a minute we were going to be a family.

I thought everything was going great, but after a month, Michael was removed from my house. I was instantly cut off from him.

Finding a family for that child is nothing short of a miracle. Let`s go. We need to get ready for the horses.

And sometimes families are faced with barriers because of a myth or a misunderstanding causing the kids to stay in the foster care system longer.

Being in that care lets me an individual or couple. It makes it much harder.

My name is David Wing-Kovarik. I adopted from the foster system. But now, I help other gay and lesbian individuals realize the dream of becoming parents.

We`re working together with you on that. I want to make sure you have the family to family kind of support.

I`ve worked hundreds of cases, side by side with social workers. We covered a lot of information last week. I train thousands of foster parents. It doesn`t matter if you`re gay or straight and we do it for free.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He figured out how it get us over that first hump. Our family wouldn`t have adopted if it hadn`t have been for David.

WING-KOVARIK: I`m fighting for the right for that child to have that family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE KID: Daddy, is tonight movie night?

WING-KOVARIK: It`s why I keep doing it every single day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Straight out to Dr. Leslie Seppinni, joining me out of L.A.

Leslie, Zimmerman is spending night one behind bars weeping inconsolably. Could it be legit?

LESLIE SEPPINNI, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, I`m sure he has some feelings for Trayvon. Unfortunately, you know, it seems like crocodile tears right now because the time to have cried and the time to have seemed remorseful was when this first happened. If this was truly an accident and not a premeditated attack on this kid -- I`m not saying premeditated murder -- just premeditated attack, he should have said sorry a long time ago.

GRACE: What about it, Mark Harold? You`re a former officer with the Atlanta PD, author of "observation of white noise." Weigh in, Mark.

MARK HAROLD, FORMER OFFICER, ATLANTA POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, you know. I don`t know. Could he feel some remorse? Yes. I think he has a lot of responsibility here. I don`t think it could be an accident. It`s definitely a tragedy. What he did, he did purposefully. Whether he had a reason to do it or whether he had a reasonable reaction to his situation, that`s going to weigh in on the legal hearings in the trial. But I don`t think it`s an accident under any circumstances. It`s a tragedy and he may be legally responsible for it.

GRACE: And to you, Dr. Bill Lloyd, regardless of tears behind bars, I think the forensics will carry the day in this case one way or the other. What do you hope to learn from that autopsy report and from forensics reports, doctor?

DOCTOR BILL LLOYD, M.D., BOARD CERTIFIED SURGEON, PATHOLOGIST: Nancy, the autopsy report are going to be able to tell us how close Trayvon and George were at the time the shooting happened. There will be gunpowder residues and other chemicals on the body of Martin that will be able to assist in identifying precisely how close were they and, perhaps, who was on top of whom when that gun was fired.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember army staff sergeant Brian Mowery, 49, Pennsylvania, killed Afghanistan. Also served marines. Bronze star, purple heart. Put his career of 26 years on hold to reenlist. Loved riding Harleys with his brother, military history, yard work, playing with his four grandchildren. Married 32 years.

Leaves behind father, Harry, brother, Sean and Mike, sisters Terri and Kathy. Widow, Sharon. Sons, Brian and Brandon. Daughters, Nicole and Kaitlyn. Brian Mowery, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. A special good night from the New York control room. Good night, Brett, our famous director. Liz, our affectionately termed number two. Rosie, Dana. And the whole back deck.

And happy birthday to Georgia friend, Lorene Watson. Bravely battled and won the fight on breast cancer. Happy birthday.

END