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Dr. Drew
Student Back with Teacher; Soldiers Snap?
Aired April 18, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.
An 18-year-old girl returns to her -- get this -- 41-year-old teacher boyfriend after he is arrested for sex crimes. How do predators exert such control over young people?
And gruesome images of supposedly troops posing with enemy body parts. I`m talking to a former drill sergeant who supports these young and women. You do not want to miss this.
And later, some men say that stay-at-home moms have it easy. I`m taking them on.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
PINSKY: All right. Thanks for joining us this evening.
We have got a lot to get through this evening. We`re going to start with the story of a teen girl, Jordan Powers, who moved in, you may remember this story, she moved in with her 41-year-old former teacher. There they are, John Hooker.
Now, the couple eventually broke up partly because Hooker was arrested on sex charges for allegedly sleeping with another student 14 years earlier.
Now, when this story first broke, they talked openly about their relationship on "GMA". Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JORDAN POWERS, FORMER STUDENT/GIRLFRIEND: I think that they`re just digging for something that wasn`t there. I mean, of course they`re going to be curious. But I know for a fact there`s nothing.
JOHN HOOKER, FORMER TEACHER: I don`t think I look at her as a student at all. I think we -- I mean, we are sharing a life.
POWERS: People don`t agree because of the able difference, and because he was a teacher and he was a student. But I think it`s a normal relationship.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. I`m joined now by Michelle Golland, clinical psychologist. I also have Tammie Powers, the mother of Jordan Powers.
And, Tammie, I want to go immediately to you. I saw you shaking your head there watching that footage. This has got to be very painful for you to watch, knowing that they`re back together again. That has got to be so frustrating.
TAMMIE POWERS, TEEN DAUGHTER IS DATING FORMER TEACHER: It is. It`s very, very discouraging. Really, unbelievable.
PINSKY: What do you think this is? How does he exert -- this guy that was her teacher, who is known to be a predator, how is he able to exert this kind of influence over your poor daughter?
POWERS: I think, again, it goes to -- he talks about loyalty. And she talked to me about I`ve abandoned him. He`s alone.
And I`ve had to tell her, he`s alone by choice. The choices he`s made. It`s manipulation. It`s power and control.
Pedophiles, predators, it`s what they do.
PINSKY: And, Tammie, I want to tell you what you described -- I want our viewers to listen to this very clearly is the Stockholm syndrome, where you identify with the perpetrator.
POWERS: Right.
PINSKY: She is putting herself ahead of the perpetrator. He is a pedophile. He is disgusting. That`s reality.
And he is able to manipulate her in such a way that she feels she is responsible for his feelings.
POWERS: She does.
PINSKY: Wow.
POWERS: She does.
PINSKY: As a parent, help people understand, what you`ve tried to do, people look at you and say, why didn`t you, you should have, how far have you gone to try to untangle the situation?
POWERS: Well, I guess, you know, I have to talk at length to Jordan, so that she is not receptive to his pleas, to his constant relentless communication. I`ve gone to every length. And I`m still going to go to every length.
My belief system is that I`ll find more information. He`s a true pedophile. And this predatory behavior didn`t happen overnight. And it will continue.
PINSKY: Well, of course, he groomed her, Michelle, no doubt.
MICHELLE GOLLAND, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. Exactly. I mean, I feel so for you, Tammie, as a mother, and --
POWERS: Thank you.
GOLLAND: You know, being able to manage this situation is nearly impossible. I`m sure, as a parent.
PINSKY: Yes.
GOLLAND: But what I`m seeing is exactly that, that this is a -- a predator, a sexual predator. And he is manipulating, he is guilting, he is making her responsible.
The fact that he was her teacher and then quit so he could then be with her, all of this goes to such poor judgment, frightening.
PINSKY: On his part.
GOLLAND: Absolutely. And she is 18. We know that.
But she is -- and we know this in brain development. She is an adolescent. She is not making those sound choices and decision.
PINSKY: They don`t have the kind of executive, Tammie, decision- making capacities.
But let`s be clear: I mean, those of us that are fathers, take note here. A relationship with dad can set kids up -- an abandoning relationship with dad, for instance, can set kids up for these kinds of victimizations.
POWERS: Right.
PINSKY: And then Tammie is the parent still left doing the parenting. And I can just imagine you blame yourself when the day is done.
POWERS: Well, I`ve had to do a lot of introspection and say why was she receptive to this? She has had a boyfriend for all four years. I had no idea that anything was going on.
And so I have had a lot of sleepless nights to think about this.
GOLLAND: Right. So she had had a boy friend and then maybe something happened? And I`m wondering if at that point is when he sort of swooped in.
PINSKY: Of course, she is vulnerable.
GOLLAND: Right, exactly, when she`s vulnerable.
PINSKY: She has some abandonment issues and he is able to say I have a special sense of you, you`re a special person, I see something in you that nobody else sees. And somebody that has those kinds of abandonment stuff with men, that`s fertile soil.
GOLLAND: Exactly. And you can see, I mean, she even appears young --
PINSKY: Yes.
GOLLAND: -- for an 18-year-old. In that --
PINSKY: Oh, she is.
GOLLAND: -- in hearing them speak.
PINSKY: Tammie, let me ask you this. Have you tried to get her in treatment?
POWERS: Oh, that`s -- absolutely. We`re trying to -- I`m adamant that she is in long-term counseling to address these issues, she and I together, to address some of these issues. It just -- I was shell-shocked, honestly just caught off guard.
PINSKY: And there`s a -- one way of conceptualizing what people like Tammie`s daughter is going through is called love addiction, for adults that go through this. And there is a book called "Facing Love Addiction," people are interested in that topic, where they can sort of understand how -- how they can idealize somebody that -- who is so clearly a manipulative, predating -- I mean, I am so disgusted by guys like this, you can`t imagine.
He`s misappropriating his power as an adult, as a teacher, as a male. Every aspect of the basic fabric of our world, where big people take care of little people is violated by this disgusting predator.
GOLLAND: Right. I wanted to ask you --
PINSKY: I got a minute, Michelle. Go right ahead.
GOLLAND: I`m curious as to if you have had any contact or relationship with the ex-wife or the woman with -- you know, who was married.
PINSKY: The predator`s ex-wife.
GOLLAND: The predator`s ex-wife.
POWERS: Oh, indirectly. Through a family friend, through his church, I have. I`m careful not to mention them, his children. They are true victims in this, as well.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLLAND: Absolutely. And this is -- I absolutely agree.
And you know, when we look at this situation sort of what can parents do. That`s what I`m sitting here thinking. Where would -- what would I do if this was my daughter at 18? You know --
PINSKY: Ten seconds. Tell us what to do.
GOLLAND: The thoughts I have, actually reach out to her, and if there is going to be custody cases, a custody case in this situation, that may be some amount of pressure --
PINSKY: Some leverage. Fantastic.
GOLLAND: -- and leverage that you put on James Hooker.
PINSKY: I got to take a break, guys.
Tammie, my hearts go out to you. I understand you`re trying to get some legislation so teachers can`t do this. I understand that failed recently. Stay at it. That`s all I`m saying.
Michelle, thank you.
POWERS: I will. Thank you.
PINSKY: Next up, (AUDIO BREAK) enemy body parts using them like trophies. These photos are very disturbing. I want to warn you.
But it`s what it`s like to be really at war. We`re going to talk to a soldier with us in studio. Stay here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Tonight, there`s outrage over photos of U.S. troops posing with severed body parts of Afghan bombers. That`s right, the incident happened two years ago, but the pictures surfaced today on the front page of the "Los Angeles Times."
I was sitting in my house this morning, pulled out the paper and there was this story. I thought we`ve got to get into this a little bit. Now, I know this isn`t something you necessarily expect from me, but I want to explain something, which is that I`ve been doing a radio show for young people for almost 30 years.
And the last thing I ever expected in my career was to be talking to young people who were at war. And that`s what I`ve been doing for the last -- since -- really since the `90s. And it`s stunning to me what this has done to young people, and the nature of the problems that are coming out of it. And I wanted to explore it a little bit.
Now, as far as those pictures go, HLN has not independently confirmed that they are authentic. We`re going to show you one. They`re intense, so I`m warning you, look away for a second.
This one allegedly shows U.S. troops and Afghan police holding the severed legs of dead bombers. Yes, there they are.
Now -- so why does this happen? What`s going on here?
Young people at war is really the topic. We`re going to explore how this happens in violent war zones.
Joining me: former Army doctor, psychiatrist and PTSD expert, Dr. Harry Croft. He`s with us by phone standing by.
I have retired U.S. Army general and CNN contributor, General James "Spider" Marks.
And former Drill Sergeant Harvey Walden. He`s now a trainer. He`s been a trainer on VH1 "Celebrity Fit Club".
Harvey, I want to start with you. What is your reaction to these pictures?
HARVEY WALDEN, TRAINER CELEB FIT CLUB: The pictures are pretty disturbing. The kids are crying for help.
PINSKY: The soldiers.
WALDEN: The soldiers.
PINSKY: So you see that as a cry for help when you see soldiers doing stuff like this.
WALDEN: You know, Drew, it`s quick for us to judge these guys and these men and women over there fighting for the freedom we have here. But until you put these boots on and you walk in their boots and see what they go through on a daily basis, you know, it`s hard -- you can`t crucified these guys.
PINSKY: You were actually tearing up talking about this.
WALDEN: It burns me up.
PINSKY: Tell me about that, because that`s what I want to know. I want to understand being -- we sit back and go, oh, my God, this guy went out and shot up a bunch of people, how awful, how is that possible. They`re representing our country, how can we allow that to happen? How does that happen?
WALDEN: Multiple deployments. These guys -- the men and women are stressed out.
PINSKY: What is it like to be in those boots? Tell me.
WALDEN: It`s tough. At one point, you can be walking down the street and the kids are standing there with an AK-47, and the next minute, you know, you`re giving them a coloring book and crayons. And I did that when I was in Fort Knox.
PINSKY: Wait -- do you mean by that? You give them a color book and crayons -- you go in there and walk into a store, let`s say and you`re going to buy lunch.
WALDEN: No, actually, we did a fund drive down in Radcliff, Kentucky, down at Fort Knox. And we had all these kids from different schools in the area donate coloring books, crayons, toys, and we gave them to my guys on patrols, and pass them out to the kids on patrols.
PINSKY: In Afghanistan. To what, make friends with the kids so they don`t shoot at them?
WALDEN: To get the loyalty. You know, now those kids let you know if something is going on within that sector or patrol when you`re out there.
PINSKY: So you`re out there, you`re a soldier, you`re representing the country, you`re trying to keep the peace. And some 5-year-old may come up to you and trip you up.
WALDEN: Drew, you never know what`s going to happen out there. These guys -- these women and men are facing something different every single time they go outside that wire. The stress just being out there, walking in those boots, you know, patrolling along those mountains or even the streets of Iraq, it`s tough.
And the kids are crying out for some help. They need help. They`re stressed out. We have to give them a better transition.
You know, it`s one thing I wish we had a better way of transitioning these guys, and gals when they come back. They -- they turn to alcohol, drugs.
PINSKY: Tell me about it.
WALDEN: Domestic violence, suicide rates are going up.
PINSKY: Yes.
WALDEN: And that`s one of the reasons why I retired -- I couldn`t give 110 percent.
PINSKY: You tear up every time you talk about this.
WALDEN: It burns me up.
PINSKY: It burns you up. What does that mean?
WALDEN: We are not giving them enough. There is no transition to help these guys when they come up. You know, we have these textbook treatments for PTSD.
PINSKY: Yes.
WALDEN: But you have to really understand what they`re going through and give them something to -- you know, to -- the -- to transition. You know what? Two weeks ago, I just had a major surgery. And I had an episode.
PINSKY: Of PTSD?
WALDEN: I don`t know what it was. All I know, it took them 45 minutes --
PINSKY: To get you down.
WALDEN: To get me down. And that`s my -- that`s how I came out of the anesthesia from the surgery. And I didn`t know what the heck happened.
PINSKY: Yes.
WALDEN: All I know is I was looking for a weapon and looking for my marines.
PINSKY: And I just smacked your forearm. It kind of scares me.
WALDEN: I`m sure it wore off after two weeks time.
PINSKY: Let me go out to the general and ask what his position is on this.
You know, you heard what my friend here Harvey was saying. What is your position?
GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET), CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, the challenge that we have right now is we`re looking at what these young soldiers did ostensibly did, when we look at these photos. My view of that is not dissimilar from Harvey`s.
But the issue remains, what`s happening in theater -- let`s address what`s happening in theater that would cause these young men and women to do what it is they`re being asked to do. And in this particular case, their job is to do forensics, is to do biometrics, to take a retina scan on a severed head, to take fingerprints off a hand or fingers that may no longer be attached.
And maybe 20 minutes before or an hour before, this was a --
PINSKY: General, I`m sorry. I have to interrupt you. I have to interrupt you. I mean, those are such gruesome acts.
I mean, I understand you guys are in the military. I`m a physician, and I think about that, and it makes me cringe. And I can just imagine for the average person at home.
MARKS: Sure.
PINSKY: So I`m just thinking of like the viewer right now, there`s got to be confusion and outrage. One is, oh, my God, you make these young people do this. And oh, my God, they`re representing us. And look what they`re up to.
How do we reconcile these things as a public? What do we do? I`m -- I understand -- I`ve got a physician on the line we`re going to ask what we need to do specifically to help these guys transition and be treated. And I understand we`re going, General.
But what do we tell the public? This is outrageous -- this whole situation is outrageous, when you listen to it.
MARKS: It`s not outrageous. No, I disagree with you. What occurred with these soldiers specifically, the glorification of their job is egregious and shouldn`t have been done.
PINSKY: OK.
MARKS: What happened is, those soldiers dehumanized their enemy. That`s a huge mistake. And Harvey knows it.
You give respect to those with whom you`re about to engage in battle. And the difficulty that we have with that is that we have these incredible clash of cultures. We don`t understand how an individual combatant that we`re trying to kill is willing to kill himself in his effort to get at us. So, that is some -- that`s not -- an intellectual conundrum.
This is a problem these young men and women deal with every day. So, let`s take that as kind of a condition within these soldiers and marines have to operate.
Now, we go back to the task at hand. There`s a purpose, there`s a task, and there`s a standard. You`ve got some dead guys, and you have to figure out, who were these guys?
There`s a database that determines who is a part of the network. Where have they been? What nefarious activities have they been a part of? Are these dead guys now off the list, and who are the other guys we have to concern ourselves with?
And so, the issue becomes, can you do that job in a compartmentalized way, in an efficient and very professional way that allows you to gather that data? That can be done. Those soldiers have been trained in order to do that.
PINSKY: OK.
MARKS: They crossed --
PINSKY: Harvey, go ahead.
MARKS: They crossed a line.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: We got you. Thank you, sir.
And, Harvey, your response to the dehumanization.
WALDEN: General -- I respect what the general is saying, but, you know, we have been battling this over nine years. It`s time for us -- these same boots we walk in over there in that hot sand.
PINSKY: You wear those boots all the time now.
WALDEN: I still put them on.
PINSKY: Is that out of respect --
WALDEN: Totally.
My girl wears my dog tags. I was going to put my Marine Corps ring on today. It`s a sign of respect what these men and women are going through.
You know, we need to stop all this what -- we need a solution. You know, it`s time to just buckle down and give these people -- these kids a solution. It`s a problem.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: In the next segment, I`m going to talk to a physician, psychiatrist, specializes in this kind of thing. I want to hear what he has to say about that.
But I`ve got 30 seconds left. General, any last words before I say farewell to you?
MARKS: No, no, no. I just want us to focus on 99.9 percent of these young men and women do a magnificent job.
PINSKY: Yes, of course.
MARKS: And there are other issues that --
(CROSSTALK)
PINKSY: Well, that`s the point. General, that is the point. I hate blaming the soldiers. That`s where the problem here -- and, you know, these are kids at war, and I wasn`t prepared to talk to them about this. And they`re out there doing that. And you`re right, we need --
WALDEN: We let those guys slip through the cracks and we can fix it.
PINSKY: I think we can. OK.
So, there are more ahead. We`re going to look at some further incidents and why they might have occurred. I`m going to speak to a psychiatrist that specializes in treating folks who comes back from these war zones. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Tonight, we`re discussing outrage over gruesome pictures of U.S. troops allegedly posing with severed body parts of Afghan insurgents. Again, HLN has not independently authenticated these photographs. We`re having a lively conversation about this.
And I wanted to get into this, again, I`ve been doing a program for young people for 30 years and it never occurred to me as I was coming up as a physician and doing radio that one of the big topics I`d be dealing with was people coming back from war. It didn`t enter my frame of reference. I didn`t understand what they`ve been dealing with.
That`s why I asked Harvey to come in here and help us understand what it is like to walk in the boots of a soldier. And you -- wanted to make a point about what if the so-called shoe were on the other foot.
WALDEN: Exactly.
PINSKY: How would that look if a -- if one of your buddies had been blown up.
WALDEN: We take it to heart and it`s tough on us.
PINSKY: But the insurgents might have treated your body parts with disrespect.
WALDEN: Oh, yes, they use them as recruitment posters. You know, they take those same photos and use them as recruitment posters for their army.
PINSKY: So they take your peers, and they -- disrespect isn`t a strong enough word.
WALDEN: No, it`s not.
PINSKY: They defile. And we don`t want to be that either.
WALDEN: Negative.
PINSKY: OK.
Dr. Croft is a psychiatrist that works with people coming back from battle.
Dr. Croft, what do we do with this?
DR. HARRY CROFT, FORMER ARMY DOCTOR (via telephone): Well, let me start by saying, I don`t personally know any of these troops anymore than the media has told us. But Dr. Drew, I`ve evaluated more than 6,000 combat vets. And my coauthor for the book, I always sit with my back to the wall, was actually in Iraq as a chaplain for a month last year.
So let me tell you what I think. Number one, as the general said, this behavior is highly atypical, highly unusual for the brave men and women that we have over in Iraq and Afghanistan. But number two, although the behavior is unusual, the thoughts, the feelings, the emotions that may drive this kind of behavior are understandable when we look at this kind of war -- multiple deployments never in the history --
PINSKY: Dr. Croft, yes. Say that again. Never in the history of warfare have their history --
CROFT: Never in the history of modern American warfare have we sent troops back.
PINSKY: OK, hold on. And repeatedly, we talk about this guy that cracked and went out there with an AK-47, was on his fourth deployment?
WALDEN: Yes, the stresses of the family back home. The economy is affecting families. I had so many soldiers and marines I talk to on a daily basis and their families are struggling.
PINSKY: Dr. Croft, you want to say something?
CROFT: You know, I`ve seen troops that have been back six and seven times. And what happens, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: It exceeds the brain`s capacity to manage this.
CROFT: And we -- we -- it`s tragic that it`s a human experiment going on now. We don`t know the effects. Forget PTSD and combat. We don`t know the effect of these multiple deployments, and when --
PINSKY: Dr. Croft, I`ll respectfully disagree. We do know the effect and that`s what we`re looking at here tonight. This is why we`re seeing this outlying behavior.
WALDEN: And that`s why --
CROFT: We`re seeing it, but we have not studied it.
PINSKY: We have not studied it. We have not studied it. Yes.
CROFT: And number three --
PINSKY: And then after number three, I`ve got to finish. We have 10 seconds, my friend.
CROFT: Dr. Drew, the effect of an insurgency war where the people were there to train and help, they`re so busy fighting each other that they kill us in the process and our brave troops, and all of that.
PINSKY: Dr. Croft, I have to interrupt. I thank you for that insight. I will have you back to talk about it more.
My friend Harvey, thank you for being here, I appreciate it.
Next I`m on call taking questions or comments. A lot of you writing in on Kim Kardashian running for mayor. Get that. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Welcome back. As I said, tonight, we`ve got a lot of program. The rest of the show, we`re going to develop -- we`re going to dedicate to your questions and comments. It is the on-call segment, of course. And Facebook and Twitter have been blowing up about many of the topics we`ve been covering both here and online.
Now, you`ve had a lot to say about something that`s hard to believe, but it`s the fact that -- I believe -- I think it`s a fact. Kim Kardashian. That`s right. The Kim Kardashian is contemplating running for mayor. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM KARDASHIAN, REALITY STAR: I decided I`m going to run for the mayor of Glendale. So, Noelle is going to head my campaign, but it`s going to be in like five years. I have to have my house there. You have to have residency there. So, I`m going to -- so, Noelle and I are like looking into all the requirements, and I`m literally going to have a huge -- she`s going to help me with my campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. Joining me now is editor-in-chief at CelebBuzz.com, Dylan Howard. Dylan, are we looking at some sort of stunt for the reality program or something that is legitimately going to happen?
DYLAN HOWARD, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, CELEBBUZZ.COM: Well, this was a bonus clip as part of the show that aired on Sunday night. I`ve got to say, though, you have to question the, perhaps, the sincerity of the comment and whether or not it was designed just for a storyline. After all, she did get married for 72 days.
PINSKY: After all there`s that. So the wedding and the mayoral campaign have a similar sort of bent.
HOWARD: Perhaps. I`m not sure whether she gave too much consideration to this, because she doesn`t even live in Glendale. So, she`d have to buy a house in Glendale in order to become a registered voter. And, she`d have to sit on the council for 12 months before she could actually even, indeed, run for the mayorship.
PINSKY: For people around the country that may not know of Glendale, California. Glendale is right next to the town I live in, which is Pasadena. It`s a lovely city, shout out to Glendale, but there`s a very large Armenian population in Glendale.
So, she would be representing, I imagine, her -- you know, people that -- yes, that could relate to her on some level. I just don`t know if they can relate to a --
HOWARD: Well, funny enough, you should say this, Dr. Drew, because many people are questioning this, but at the same time, two council members already in Glendale have said they would support Kim Kardashian becoming mayor.
PINSKY: OK. All right. Speaking of Glendale, I`ve got somebody who is a resident of Glendale. It`s Elin, I believe. How do you feel about this?
ELIN, GLENDALE, CALIFORNIA: I think it`s outrageous. Honestly, to tell you the truth, I think everyone takes it lightly. I mean, they view her on television, and she`s quite the bitch (ph), and I don`t think she would be much different as a mayor. And, I think it`s kind of just like a joke going around. Nobody is really taking it very seriously.
PINSKY: Well, but what if she campaigns -- listen, stranger things have happened. I`ve got a list of celebrity politicians here that back in the day when people wondered, you know, how could Jesse Ventura be elected as a governor, you know?
HOWARD: She`s credential, Dr. Drew. Let`s face it. I mean, most politicians do the sex tape after their career. She`s already done it now. So, she comes to the job well-armed with the skill set required to be a politician. Of course --
PINSKY: Oh, my goodness. I`m just saying.
HOWARD: That was a joke.
PINSKY: Oh I`m just saying. But Elin, it`s no joke for Glendale, though, is it?
ELIN: I guess, it`s not a joke, I mean, given she is Armenian, and people obviously know that, but I don`t think that`s anything --
PINSKY: Right. I mean, Glendale is a big city. I mean, it is not a small -- a lot of big corporations are there. I mean, I imagine the corporations, itself, will have something to say, but maybe it will bring revenue to the city. Who knows?
HOWARD: All jokes aside, she reportedly is interested in this, said that she doesn`t want to go for four or five years.
PINSKY: Good. All right. Fine. We`ll talk about it then. All right. Here`s what you, guys, have been saying about this.
Jennifer writes on Facebook, "Note to self: Avoid moving to Glendale, California.
Lasio asked, "Who is going to run the town? Kris Jenner?
And finally, Jo Ann wants to know, "What in the world would qualify a reality TV star to be a politician?"
But as I said, we`ve had other -- I`ve got a whole list of celebrities that became politicians and some, including Ronald Reagan did quite well.
HOWARD: Yes.
PINSKY: All right. I`m going to completely switch gears, and this is something I feel rather impassioned about. So, give me a second here.
HOWARD: All right, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Earlier today, entertainment icon and fame TV producer, Dick Clark, died of what`s been called a massive heart attack. He was 82. I want to say, please -- bring in on me here is a way I can just get to everybody. A lot of conversation is being held in the media about the great career, how much we will miss him, how much he`s affected all of our lives by being part of the fabric of the background of -- so many who grew up.
I mean, he was ever-present. I want to bring up a couple points I want people to know. A, his wife, Kari, was a critical part of his success, both as a human being and as a celebrity, somebody who produced a tremendous amount of television. And she was critical in him recovering from his stroke. This is a family man. He should be celebrated for that.
Secondly, for people that sort of took issue with him having hosted those New Year`s Eve shows after his stroke, and sort of -- people made fun of him. I want to take issue with that. I didn`t speak up about this at the time and maybe I even -- sort of chuckled along with people, but in retrospect, in retrospect, that looks like a very important part of his life.
He flourished all the way to the end. He did not allow age, medical illness, or anything else to get in the way of participating in his career, and we should celebrate that. We should encourage other people who have illness or aged, if people want to, to continue to flourish, they should.
And this in retrospect, that moved -- the people are making fun of, I see as something extremely powerful and something that should be celebrated. But I`m going to go back to Dylan. All right, Dylan. So, he kept multiple generations entertained. What did this guy have?
HOWARD: Well, he had something that was the power (ph) to present on television without being seen to be trying to present. He could present anything and will be remembered accordingly. And for so many years, he was an icon of television, even right up until his final moments.
Ultimately, he died of a massive heart attack, but he actually died with friends just some two weeks ago. So --
PINSKY: That`s again another point. He flourished up to the end. He didn`t suffer, he didn`t linger. He lived his life fully with his family, with his wife, with his career, and that is something as we have become an aging population and people become able to function well with chronic medical illnesses, this is something to celebrate.
But, I have a very special guest online who wants to ring in on the death of Dick Clark. It is Alice Cooper, the rocker. Alice, are you there?
VOICE OF ALICE COOPER, SINGER/SONGWRITER: Yes. Hi, Dr. Drew. How are you?
PINSKY: I`m fine, Alice. What are your thoughts on the passing of Dick Clark?
COOPER: Oh, well, you know, I mean, I used to rush home from elementary school to watch "American Bandstand." It was, you know, I mean, like that`s where you turned it on to hear the new songs, to see the new dances. I really genuinely think that Dick Clark loved that music.
PINSKY: Oh, yes.
COOPER: Because you couldn`t fake that. He was really, really in the love with that type of music.
PINSKY: And you know, Alice, I`m going to interrupt you. We`re looking at some footage of him and "American Bandstand." He also was part of social change. He really helped promote -- I mean, look -- when we look back at how much he was omnipresent in our culture, he also helped promote social change, didn`t he?
COOPER: Yes. I mean, you know, when you look at even the whole hairspray thing was based on, you know, the "American Bandstand" with the Blacks finally coming in, you know, and dancing, and it was like a big social change that you would see Blacks and Whites dancing together.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOPER: But that was "American Bandstand." You couldn`t get more Americana than that.
PINSKY: Do you have any memories or thoughts to sort of leave us with about Dick?
COOPER: Well, you know, the great thing about him is he`s the one that came to me about my syndicated radio show, and he says, if you were going to do a radio show, what would it be? I said, well, Dick, I would take it back to FM radio in the late 1960s where the deejay got to play the songs he wanted to play and forgot demographics.
And he says, why don`t you do that? And I`ve been on now eight, nine years with that radio show, because Dick Clark wanted to do that.
PINSKY: Alice, I appreciate your thoughts. Thanks for joining us. You know, it`s a passing of a great man. I want to read a couple of Facebook reactions. They`re writing in their favorite memories.
Shaun writes, "Sad, sad news. I remember staying up late with my family for New Year`s Eve before I was 21 and could actually go out and celebrate. He always on. Great times."
Jennifer writes, "New Years will never be the same." I think she is absolutely right about that.
Dylan, we`ve got about 30 seconds. Final thought.
HOWARD: Absolute trailblazer. And he was more than just the host. He was the man who produced his work. He directed his work. He was the media mogul behind his work. A trailblazer. Before Ryan Seacrest who is this media mogul now, there was Dick Clark, and he set the agenda for many in this industry.
PINSKY: All right. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us. Dylan, we`ll have you back soon, of course,
Next up, I`m going to have more of your questions and calls. I`ve got my co host from "Loveline," Simone Bienne. You`re going to love her. We`re talking about sex and relationship. She`s what they call a psycho sexual therapist. Of course, I`ll trying to ring in questions and answers. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right. Now, welcome back. We are continuing our on-call section, and I am joined by my "Loveline" co host from radio, Simone Bienne, and we`ve got a crazy story to talk you about to start off. This is a Megadeth Motorhead concert fan who had sex in the bathroom and got pregnant and now looks for the dad on Craigslist. That`s just wild.
Kortnie on Facebook has this to say. "I hope the best for her and her child. Just because she is unorthodox doesn`t mean she can`t be a wonderful mother."
Simone, how do we make sense of a young lady that walks into a stall, has sex with a random person with a Mohawk and gets pregnant?
SIMONE BIENNE, CO-HOST, "LOVELINE": Well, this is not pretty or usual, normal behavior.
PINSKY: Women (ph) like that?
BIENNE: Look, there`s all for having that in our fantasy. There`s all for kissing a guy or making out with a guy at a bar. But come on, ladies, in the stall, and then getting pregnant! What are you doing?!
PINSKY: Face it, I mean, she`s really -- she`s sort of stepped up her, shall we call it, class by looking for dad on craigslist. I mean, that`s --
BIENNE: Because at least she can get some help with the care of the baby.
PINSKY: I have to talk to you about craigslist later, Simone.
BIENNE: OK.
PINSKY: OK. All right. But all seriousness, kidding aside, that is drug addiction or sex addiction, guys. Those are the only people I know that behave like that is when people are loaded, they do wild stuff. People that are sex addicted have random sex with people they don`t know. And if you don`t believe sex addiction is a real thing, you never seen it.
People have severe consequences. They`re miserable from it. If you want to read about it, Patrick Kearns (ph) has written several books about this issue. And I know we deal with love and sex addiction all the time.
BIENNE: Yes. And what concerns me about this particular case is, actually, it doesn`t seem as if she`s sort of in touch with her shame, because she`s acting out even more by going on craigslist.
PINSKY: Great point. Now, speaking of love and sex addiction, the viewers have been sounding off on the story of Jordan Powers (ph), the teen girl who moved in with her 41-year-old teacher who`s a pedophile, who`s been arrested for pedophile, John Hooker (ph). Kelly, you`re on the line on this story in Texas. What`s on your mind?
KELLY, TEXAS: Yes. I`m outraged about this story, Drew. It`s ridiculous. This is a young girl, and this is a dirty old man.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
KELLY: This is a story as old as the hills. Dirty old men are everywhere. You`re supposed to, as a parent, teach your daughters.
PINSKY: But, Kelly, let me stop you real quick. When you blame Tammy Powers (ph) who seem like a lovely lady, you create another victim, though. Let`s support Tammy to help her daughter. You know what I mean? You know -- Kelly, are you a parent?
KELLY: I am.
PINSKY: OK.
KELLY: I`ve been that girl.
PINSKY: Oh.
KELLY: And people blame -- the -- blame the girl.
PINSKY: OK. Hold on.
KELLY: They tell you, oh, he can`t love you, and so, then the girl thinks, well, why can`t he love me? Are you saying there`s something wrong with me? He says I`m perfect.
BIENNE: I think what really concerns me about this is the imbalance of power, because this person is holding their power, and that girl is now setting up her sexual script and her romantic script for the rest of her life. And there is no way that this won`t have a deep, psychological impact on her.
PINSKY: And Kelly, just a brief note with you. How did you work through that? What can we learn from this?
KELLY: You know, honestly, I got pregnant at a young age, and I started through looking at my girls and thinking of them as me, and wanting to protect that little girl.
PINSKY: OK.
KELLY: And so, I started protecting me and taking better care of me.
PINSKY: Perfect move, because your ability to be an attached parent, a present parent is critical. But, relationship with dad. I mean, you`ve got to make sure they have a relationship with their dads, because really, when I hear stories like what we`re talking about, that`s at the core of it almost always.
BIENNE: Absolutely. And the father has a responsibility to make sure that daughters feel sexual. Now, when I say this --
PINSKY: Feel loved.
BIENNE: Feel loved, but also, by saying, oh, you`re going to make some man very proud when you be his wife. That is completing their sexuality. And that`s also very, very important.
PINSKY: So, you`re going to make somebody very happy.
BIENNE: Yes. When they do that, then it`s -- you`re less likely to act out.
PINSKY: Interesting. OK. I`ve got Jason calling from Nova Scotia, Canada. You`ve got a question, Jason?
JASON, NOVA SCOTIA, CANADA: Hi, Dr. Drew. How are you?
PINSKY: I`m good, Jason. What`s going on there?
JASON: Pleasure talking with you.
PINSKY: Pleasure is ours.
JASON: Yes. I`ve got two questions.
PINSKY: All right.
JASON: What made Jordan go back with him?
PINSKY: Yes.
JASON: And, do you think they should raise the legal age to 21 or maybe 25, so this could help prevent --
PINSKY: Yes, the age of consent. That`s a dicey issue. I certainly -- one thing we all know for sure. Sixteen and under, they`re not ready to render consent. So, states that have 14 and 15, I think, are way out of line. Eighteen, the frontal lobes are developing to the point that they can make some executive decision.
I don`t have a strong opinion about that, but let`s talk about why she went back -- I wouldn`t mind raising it to 21. But, the problem then, though, is we have a lot of young men being charge -- actually consenting - -
BIENNE: Yes.
PINSKY: You know what I mean? It would be a mess, because it`s almost become normative for couples that age to be sexual. And if the parents didn`t like it, they could charge the young man with sexual misconduct.
BIENNE: I think (ph) 21 is too high.
PINSKY: OK. Fair enough.
BIENNE: Between 16 and 18. But, again, it comes down to the parents.
PINSKY: OK. Now, the -- why did she go back to him? How do we help people understand that?
BIENNE: Look, the pull. She is getting something. There`s always a fit. And I really like your point, Dr. Drew, when you were saying let`s not victimize people. There will be a fit. He clearly comes from some kind of dysfunctional background.
PINSKY: He was very sexually abused as a kid himself.
BIENNE: Exactly. Why does she go there? Because it`s safe. This is what she`s used to. We don`t know her background, her history, but there will be a fit that makes this a usual relationship for her. And she clearly needs something from him.
PINSKY: So that needs to be broken through professional intervention, really, is what you`re saying.
BIENNE: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes. OK. All right. You know, I think I want to jump to Amy. Amy in Bellevue, Ohio. Are you available there, Amy? We`re going to shift --
AMY, BELLEVUE, OHIO: Yes, I`m here.
PINSKY: There you go. You were shifting gears a little bit on this topic. What`s your question there, Amy?
AMY: I`m a 45-year-old self-employed single mother of four boys. I choose to stay at home so I can be around for my kids. I work from home and do both the jobs of the mother and the father.
PINSKY: Amy, let me just turn over all my cards and say thank you. And I am so grateful for the moms that are able to stay at home and do that. And I know -- I have triplets. I know how incredibly, incredibly difficult the job is. In fact, you make a point that most women are actually happier when they work and parent.
BIENNE: Yes. And studies are showing this. And even in my clinical practice, when I`ve been working with couples, there is more pressure with the stay-at-home mom on the couple relationship, because it is so demanding.
And I -- any politician watching, can I just say, they are not in office for 18 years. They are-- having their swanky lunches. They do not know what it`s like to have a full job, 24/7.
PINSKY: Being a parent.
BIENNE: Being a parent, and being a stay-at-home mom or a stay-at- home dad. You would get paid at least $50,000 for all the works that you do, as a bookkeeper, as nanny, as a teacher on 24/7/.
PINSKY: You go!
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: All right. Listen, thank you. I have a bunch of questions, but I`m running out of time. So, well-said, Simone. I`m going to shift gears a little bit. Our country`s -- something called our country`s votes in HLN election year coverage.
Last week, Democratic strategist, Hilary Rosen, set off a political firestorm when she said Mitt Romney`s wife, Ann has, quote, "never had worked a day in her life." This is what we`re talking about.
BIENNE: Yes.
PINSKY: Stay-at-home moms are furious everywhere. There`s all this tension between and amongst women at work, full-time or part-time. Women beat each other up about this. So, I`m sure women got into this topic, as well.
BIENNE: Yes, absolutely.
PINSKY: Yes. Listen, ladies, bottom line here, stop beating each other up. It is -- you`ve heard, it`s a hard, stressful job to be stay at home. It`s a hard, stressful job to do -- you, guys, are always trying to do everything. Please be good to yourself.
BIENNE: It affects (ph) me.
PINSKY: Yes. You take so much on. I just want to say. Listen, anything more you want to ask about, love, sex, relationship, we`re going to keep taking calls with Simone. Don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Welcome back. We`re doing on-call. I`m joined by my "Loveline" co-host, Simone Bienne. We`re on radio together. Let`s get right to it. I`ve got Peter who has a question about friends with benefits -- Peter.
PETER: OK. So, I`ve been seeing one lady friend for about two months. And we`ve been kind of seeing each other and kind of just been hooking up. And midway through the relationship is where this relationship, I pretty much told her that, you know, nothing is going to happen -- I don`t see us in a relationship.
PINSKY: So, even though you`re intimately and physically involved, you told her we`re just friends. And she stayed with you as a friends with benefits, right?
PETER: Yes.
PINSKY: And am I led to believe there`s another one that came along?
PETER: Yes. So, last weekend, I kind of felt like it was an old friend, it was kind of like a friendship kind of rekindled. And we went on a date and she kind of (ph) spent the night.
PINSKY: And you felt OK doing that, because you`d already told your other friend that she was just a friend, right?
PETER: Well, yes. I mean --
PINSKY: Peter, hold on.
PETER: She understood that.
PINSKY: She understood that. There`s a giant disconnect, and I try - - we try to get young people understand this between how women think and men think on these sorts of issues.
BIENNE: And I`m going to do an impression of you, which is -- your sleep impression, which is, when you say, oh, I don`t want a relationship here, but I`m still going to sleep with you, Pete, this is what women hear, wa, wa, wa.
(CROSSTALK)
BIENNE: They don`t hear it.
PINSKY: But it feels like he loves me.
BIENNE: Yes. He`s being nice to me. He`s kissing me. He`s being intimate. I`ve got to say, and I do feel about this strongly, and I don`t think it`s realistic, don`t sleep with women, unless, you want a relationship with them. It`s not fair to do. Complement
PINSKY: Slow down, Simone. You`re getting radical on us. Let`s go on to Dixie in North Carolina. What`s your question, Dixie?
DIXIE, NORTH CAROLINA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Dixie.
DIXIE: She`s absolutely right about the woman thing. But anyway --
PINSKY: I know she is. That`s why I brought her up. She knows what she`s talking about.
DIXIE: But so do I. But I`m a woman of a certain age, in my 50s. I don`t really have much of a sex drive anymore, but all of a sudden, I`ve become fascinated -- I`m not a pervert. I don`t really want to do it, but I`ve become fascinated with one of these musicians on TV. I`m dreaming about him. I`m watching his videos.
PINSKY: Wow!
DIXIE: What`s going on with me?
PINSKY: Well, that`s very interesting. Could it be a good thing?
BIENNE: I think it could actually be a good thing where actually you are being shown that you do have sex drive, and I`ve got to say, Dixie, this is nothing about you being a pervert. This is normal, healthy part of our sexuality to fantasize and dream. I`m married, and I still think about pop stars.
PINSKY: Hold on a second. Did you hear what she just said? I`m going to call her husband when we get off the air just you know you still fantasize. I know Brandon --
BIENNE: He`s got Eva Longoria, I`ve got Brandon Boyd.
PINSKY: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: But listen, Dixie, I think, you know, sometimes fantasy life can fill in where our reality life is not making us happy. And if that -- if that fills you in some way, gives you some joy, that`s OK.
BIENNE: It`s OK, because you contain that. And it`s no different from a teenager having a crush on a pop star. What your body is saying to you is, you are a sexual human being, and that is a fabulous thing, especially to hear from your body as a woman.
PINSKY: Especially as an older woman, too. I think people don`t pay enough attention. Sometimes, people need hormonal support to continue to feel sexual, but that`s a separate topic for a separate night. Simone, thank you.
I want to remind everyone that you can e-mail us your questions or anything else, write in now to Dr.Drew@HLNTV.com and check out HLNTV.com for the latest breaking news. I want to thank you all for watching and staying with us this evening. It`s been a very interesting program. I thank Simone for joining me, Dylan Howard, everybody. Alice Cooper for calling in. See you next time.
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