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Zimmerman Will Be Set Free; Airliner Crashes in Pakistan; 1979 Missing Child Case Heats Up; Polls: Obama, Romney Neck And Neck; Zimmerman Will Be Set Free; Stranded At Sea; The Mayor Is A Mom; The Help Desk
Aired April 20, 2012 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON PANETTA, DEFENSE SECRETARY: -- but I think -- and I hope they will follow those procedures to determine whether or not that has been the case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: And he said, you know, look, they can appeal through a discharge review board. I know you talked to him about this as well.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Right.
GUPTA: But Stephanie Schroder, the woman you just met on the piece, that's exactly what she's doing. But it's a long process and she's been very emotionally affected by this as well, just her question of her own well-being, her safety.
PHILLIPS: Sure. These women wanted to serve. They wanted to be there.
GUPTA: And they wanted to feel safe while they were serving, especially with their own fellow marines.
PHILLIPS: And they should. Sanjay, thanks.
GUPTA: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: That does it for us. Michael Holmes is in for Suzanne Malveaux right now.
(MUSIC)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN headquarters in Atlanta, where it is 12:00 noon. It is 9:00 a.m. if you're on the West Coast. I'm Michael Holmes, in for Suzanne today.
I want to get you up-to-speed, though, for this Friday, April 20th.
George Zimmerman, the man who killed Trayvon Martin, will be freed from jail. He was granted bond just in the last hour. The judge ruled moments after Zimmerman took the stand and apologized to Martin's parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, DEFENDANT: I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Zimmerman will be released on $150,000 bond. He will have to wear a monitoring device, also check in with authorities every three days.
We're going to go live to Sanford, Florida, in just a few minutes for the very latest.
Now to Pakistan, a horrific plane crash -- 131 people, including nine crew members were on the flight from Karachi to Islamabad. The plane crashing just five miles from its destination. Pakistani authorities blaming bad weather.
In a few minutes, we will go live to Reza Sayah in Islamabad.
And police in New York are tearing up a basement in Lower Manhattan apartment this hour, looking for clues to the 1979 disappearance of Etan Patz. Patz was the first missing child to be featured on milk cartons across the country. Sources say a cadaver dog picked up a scent in the building. The property was searched when Patz was first disappeared.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE COMMISSIONER: I think what's significant now is these new technologies involved, these new chemicals, just new techniques that could be used. So I think law enforcement, certainly FBI and NYPD, are hopeful we can give some comfort to the parents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, take a listen to this crowd in Cairo today.
A familiar picture's really. It's Tahrir Square in central Cairo. A familiar scene during Egypt's revolution. Today, these thousands of people are shouting with one voice against the military leadership that took over last year.
Egypt's new leaders have banned some candidates from running for president. The election is set for next month. We're going to be live from Cairo later in the program.
And now back to the man who killed Trayvon Martin. A judge has just set a $150,000 bond for George Zimmerman. He should be getting out of jail soon.
In a surprise move, Zimmerman took to the stand and apologized to Martin's parents. The prosecutor not too happy about that. Here's how it played out in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZIMMERMAN: I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.
MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S LAWYER: Nothing further, your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And, I'm sorry, sir, you have not really addressed that to the court. You're doing it here to the victim's family, is that correct?
ZIMMERMAN: They are here in the court, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand, but I thought you were going to address your honor, Judge Lester, not -- so that's really addressed to the family and where the media happens to be, correct, Mr. Zimmerman?
ZIMMERMAN: No, to the mother and the father.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And tell me, after you committed this crime and you spoke to the police, did you ever make that statement to the police, sir? That you were sorry for what you had done or their loss?
ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never stated that, did you?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't remember what I said. I believe I did say that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You told that to the police?
ZIMMERMAN: In one of the statements I said that I felt sorry for the family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that would be recorded because all those conversations were recorded, right?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: All right. Our Martin Savidge joins us from Sanford, Florida, outside the complex where the proceedings were held.
Martin, Zimmerman's apology was unexpected. What other reaction from outside the courthouse?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (AUDIO BREAK) absolutely outrage. Now, the family left without making any statement whatsoever. They quickly came out the front door of the courthouse and then were gone.
The attorneys for Trayvon Martin's family said that it was one of the most outrageous things they had ever seen, and they certainly did not believe that it was a genuine apology on the part of George Zimmerman. It should be pointed out that apparently within the last couple of days George Zimmerman had said through his attorney that he wanted to have a private meeting with Trayvon Martin's family and that he wished to discuss something with them. Well, now, it appears clear what he wanted to discuss. He wanted to make some sort of an apology.
His attorney said afterwards that they had wished -- he had wished this had taken place not in the courtroom but in that private setting, but Trayvon Martin's family and his legal team apparently had turned that idea down. So that's why George Zimmerman decided that the courtroom was the second best opportunity to make a statement. He's apparently warranted to make for sometime he claims, but up to this point, he said his lawyers had advised him not to say anything.
HOLMES: What about the granting of the bond, Marty? Reaction to that?
SAVIDGE: Well, I think that it was anticipated going in that he was probably going to get bond. At least a lot of the legal experts we have spoken to anticipated -- you know, bond is a constitutional right in most cases in this country.
And in this particular case, even though it was a no bond offense, an argument could easily be made and was made by his attorney that, look, George Zimmerman had been cooperating with authorities. He had always told them where he was and he turned himself into the moment he had been charged. He maintains, Mark O'Mara that is, that he was not a risk, his client, to fleeing the country. They even handed over his passport.
And then on top of that said he was not a danger to the community. In fact, the danger actually was to George Zimmerman by being out, but the attorney also argued it was better for his family, it was better for George Zimmerman, better for building a defense he be set free.
A 150k, $150,000, excuse me -- that amount probably higher than many people anticipated, but I think it was probably within reach. The family will have to put up 10 percent, that's $15,000.
HOLMES: You mentioned the sort of risks or perceived risk. What is security like around the jail and the courthouse? You know, we have seen protests and all the rest of it. What is the mood in Sanford?
SAVIDGE: Well, there's certainly a great deal of concern. In fact, so much concern that the family members of George Zimmerman gave their testimony at today's hearing, if you saw it, over the telephone. They were frightened to appear in public to give their testimony because they say -- because of hate mail they have received and in some cases death threats that have been made.
For George Zimmerman -- well, you probably multiply it tenfold. There are a lot of people who will not be happy that after only nine days in jail, he is now once again free. There will be certain people who will look at this and say that the deck is again stacked against the family of Trayvon Martin seeking any kind of justice. So, the worry is that this very hearing and the fact that George Zimmerman is out of bound is going to restoke the emotions we saw plenty of in the month leading up before his arrest.
So, there is a lot of concern, which is why George Zimmerman is not going to be released today, we are told, so they can iron out these very severe concerns they have about safety.
HOLMES: All right. Thanks, Martin. Martin Savidge there -- appreciate it, Marty.
Let's bring in criminal defense attorney now and CNN legal analyst Mark NeJame joining us from Orlando.
Mark, the lawyer for Trayvon Martin's parents say George Zimmerman only has to come up with $15,000, 10 percent of the $150,000? Does the decision to grant bond surprise you at all? I mean, what Marty was saying there, some people are going to be annoyed by this. But its it normal for people to get bond?
MARK NEJAME, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, we fully -- I fully expected a bond. It's what we have talked about.
As I saw the evidence from what I have heard up until now, and I have even heard more in court, there are big question marks hovering over this case. We know he was not a risk of flight. Why? He turned himself in voluntarily. It was under the eye -- the voluntary eye of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement apparently.
There were conditions of bond that could be reached to make sure that there is no danger. And I think Mark O'Mara brought up by attacking that affidavit, showed that the proof was not evident and the presumption not great according to the law. The judge made the right decision.
I thought it would be $100,000, but $150,000 is well within the realm of -- the area it should be. I have had many bonds set for cases and homicide cases with similar type of situations where there are real questions that need to be answered during -- as the case unfolds and during the discovery process.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: Yes, go on. Go on.
NEJAME: I was going to say, what's quite significant in this case, though, is the fact that to me the state came across as woefully unprepared. Their lawyer was excellent as far as his skill sets, but to have your lead detective go on the stand and say, I wasn't prepared. I didn't know that I was going to be called for a hearing, and then to have the prosecutor say, well, your honor, we weren't really expecting basically a mini trial.
Well, you should have expected it, and the investigator should have been prepared to the teeth. He should have been up until 3:00 this morning preparing for the possibility that he may have been called. And now, what's happened is critical evidence is now on the record by the lead investigator saying they don't know how the fight started, they don't know how -- if Mr. Martin was going back to the car or not -- or Trayvon was going back to the car. They don't know any of that.
If they knew it, because we've all been saying the state has got to have more evidence, well, they now said under oath that they don't have it. Those are critical points and they should have been better prepared.
HOLMES: Quite extraordinary in that regard.
So going back to what Martin Savidge was saying, that some people are going to be saying here , it goes showing that he's getting some sort of favor. In short, that's not the case, this is pretty normal?
NEJAME: I don't see it at all.
HOLMES: Right.
NEJAME: I think that the second-degree is a stretch in light of the information that's come out in court today.
HOLMES: Right. And this is quite a lengthy proceeding, of course. When you have second-degree murder cases like this, normal and how high a bond is usually set for this thing? You say $150,000 is in the ballpark?
NEJAME: That's absolutely in the ballpark. I have seen them lower. I have seen them higher. I think this is in light of the fact there are limited finances for this family. It's going to be a stretch for them to come up with $15,000.
A bond is meant to secure one's appearance in court. It's not meant to punish somebody. So, the judge apparently evaluated, we all knew he was a practical, smart legally, but he's also very common sense. He set it higher than the family could comfortably afford and then enough to help ensure his appearance in court which is exactly what a bond is intended to do.
HOLMES: Yes, indeed, indeed. At the end of the day, he's not been convicted of anything yet, too.
NEJAME: Yes, that's -- I mean, that's it. Some people are thinking that a bond hearing is meant for punishing, and how can the person get out of jail when they simply have a serious charge against them?
Remember, there's a lot of questions in this. The entire Sanford Police Department where I think a lot of questions need to be directed as to what appears to be a very questionable, shoddy investigation, don't dispute that. But reasonable people differ over the fact of what happened and how he should be charged, if charged at all. That's why we have trials.
But we don't incarcerate people in this country and presume their guilt without evidence and facts coming out.
HOLMES: Yes.
NEJAME: That's a rush to judgment that we see other countries doing and we criticize every day.
Well, if we can criticize them, we should be more vigilant to make sure we're doing it the right way. And as long as he is known to appear in court, then that's what we have trials for. It's why we have judges and juries, and we need to let this play out, and we need to be -- trust the system in this situation. That it's now being taken care of properly.
HOLMES: And that is great perspective and context to get.
Thanks, Mark. Mark NeJame there, CNN legal analyst.
NEJAME: Thank you.
HOLMES: Let's give you a rundown of some of the stories we're covering for you.
First, new leads in the case of a 6-year-old who disappeared decades ago have led investigators to the basement of a New York City building.
And then -- can you make out a fishing boat in that picture? Well, I guess you can, can't you? The men on board were stranded at sea for days without food or water. Nearby, a cruise ship didn't stop to help. We're going to talk to a passenger who tried to do something.
And later, one of the Secret Service agents dismissed in the prostitution scandal is called out for making an inappropriate Facebook comment about Sarah Palin.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Incredible pictures coming into us at CNN, a plane crash in Pakistan. This was a flight from Karachi to the capital, Islamabad. Let's go to Islamabad now. Reza Sayah is standing by.
What is the latest on the crash, Reza? This only happened a short time ago. Any more details coming out?
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, earlier, aviation officials had said 131 people were killed. Now, depending on who you talk to, they're saying 121 or 122 people were on board. The crash happened about two hours ago.
Pakistani television stations are showing images of the aftermath of the crash. Those images are showing twisted and mangled debris and what appear to be personal belongings of the passengers, including luggage, blankets, and parts of the plane.
The crash happened in the garrison city of Rawalpindi, which is right next to Islamabad. This is a heavily populated, a residential area. Even right next to the airport, there is concern that this plane may have crashed into a residential area. At this point, there are no reports of fatalities on the ground. Hopefully, it will stay that way.
We are learning some remarkable new details about this aircraft and this airline. This was a Bhoja Airlines aircraft, a Boeing 737 -- a private low cast airline that apparently shut down operations at some point and recently restarted operations.
But here is the stunner. The Web site of this airline says that they will start inaugural flights from Karachi to Islamabad on April 20th. A travel agent we spoke to corroborated that.
Today is April 20th, Michael. So, this could have been one of the first flights of the Bhoja Airlines that restarted operations recently coming from Karachi to Islamabad -- Michael.
HOLMES: Yes, very disturbing as you say. We have yet to sort of find out about the victims on the ground. Obviously, the potential there for further casualties. We were talking earlier to Mario Ramos and you there on the ground, Mario, our meteorologist, was saying bad weather in the area.
Any suggestion that factored into it?
SAYAH: Well, at this point it's too early to tell if that was a factor. But certainly beginning around 6:0 p.m. local time, there were heavy thunderstorms, and when thunderstorms hit in this part of the country, they hit hard. There were heavy, powerful gusts of wind, and then you had the thunderstorm.
But the fact is there's a lot of flights that come in and go out of Islamabad in similar weather. So it's much too early to tell if weather was a factor in this plane going down, Michael.
HOLMES: Reza Sayah, as always, thanks. Reza Sayah there in Islamabad.
Well, a cold case is now heating up after 33 years. Right now, police searching a Manhattan building for clues to the disappearance of 6-year-old Etan Patz. Patz's case grabbed national attention when his photograph was featured on milk cartons across the country. It was the first time that ever been done.
Patz disappeared in 1979 while walking to his bus stop alone for the first time. No suspect ever charged. His parents actually never moved from the neighborhood because they wanted to be around. They kept the same phone number so Etan would be able to reach them. He had memorized that phone number.
The case made parents everywhere fear for their children's safety.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERNIE ALLEN, NAT. CTR. FOR MISSING & EXPLOITED CHILDREN: I think it ended an era of innocence in this country. Parents around the nation saw how it happened and thought there but for the grace of God go I or my child. It really awakened America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And now that there are new leads in the case, CNN's Susan Candiotti has been following the investigation.
Susan, what are police looking for in that Manhattan building?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Michael. They're looking for the boy's remains, his clothing, anything that indicates that he might have been in that basement, and the significant of this location, Michael, is that it's just a half a block away from his apartment where he used to live with his parents.
And they're looking in the basement of this red brick building that you see over my shoulder.
Now, within the last hour or so, they've started bringing up some of that concrete that they've been digging up from that basement. Concrete that's been there for decades and decades.
And what we're learning now is that they're digging at least four to six feet below the surface of that original concrete using scientific measurement and equipment to try to determine whether any of that earth had been moved over the years. They're able to determine that with the kind of analysis that they do. And everything that they are picking up from there is being sent to the FBI's main lab in Quantico, Virginia.
Now, Michael, we're learning new details this day about what led the FBI to search this location. And here is what led them here. Old and new information that pointed them in the direction of a man who is now 75 years old but who used to work as a carpenter and a handyman in the basement of that building. He had a workshop down there.
Now, sources say this handyman had befriended the little boy. Even gave him a little bit of money and was in the basement with him a day before the youngster disappeared. They brought in K-9s about 10 days ago and the dogs picked up a human scent.
And then during the questioning of this handyman, he said the following according to sources, what if the body was moved? He said what if the body was moved? That set up alarms and the FBI then began to set up this big excavation that will be going on for the next four days. It certainly sent up a lot of alarms.
And, Michael, the NYPD did examine this basement back in 1979 but nowhere to the degree that they did now. They certainly didn't dig it up -- Michael.
HOLMES: Yes. They didn't have the technology, the imaging equipment and sonar, all sorts of things they can pull in.
Susan, great getting your report there. Appreciate it, Susan Candiotti.
Well, the Secret Service scandal involving prostitutes in Colombia has ended careers and embarrassed the White House. But wait until you see how one airline is trying to make money off of it. We'll show you the controversial ad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Welcome back, everyone.
A low-cost airline is having some fun with the Secret Service scandal. Take a look at this advertisement. I can assure you it is real.
Spirit Airlines began an online promotion yesterday offering one-way flights from Florida to Cartagena, Colombia, for under $20. They call it, and again this is not a joke, more bang for your buck. It shows a man looking very Secret Service-like with sunglasses, the earpiece, the whole thing.
Cartagena is, of course, where the number of Secret Service agents and U.S. military personnel were allegedly involved in that incident involving local prostitutes before President Obama's official visit there last week.
Now, that airline might be trying to get a laugh at the scandal, but the very unfunny reality is that at least three Secret Service agents are out of a job, and more resignations or firings could follow.
CNN's Jill Dougherty is at the White House.
Jill, we finally put some names to some faces today. Who were they?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Right, Michael. Two names that have been confirmed to CNN by a source close to the investigation, and the first one is David Chaney, and you mentioned the Facebook incident. We'll get to that in a second, but he is the one who is associated with that Facebook page.
He's a supervisor, was a supervisor, son of a Secret Service agent. He started working with the Secret Service in 1987. And according to another web page that he had, he is married and has an adopted son.
The second person is Greg Stokes. He is the supervisor of the K-9 training unit that's located at a center not far from Washington, D.C.
Now, the Facebook page, David Chaney had a Facebook page, still does, on which he posted a picture of protecting Sarah Palin when she was a vice presidential candidate, and he mentioned that he was checking her out.
And Sarah Palin messaged right back in a way making this statement to FOX News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: This agent who was kind of ridiculous there in posting pictures and comments about checking someone out, well, check this out, bodyguard. You're fired. And I hope his wife kicks his ocolly (ph) and sends him to the doghouse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOUGHERTY: All right. Testy comments there.
Now, there are five investigations going on at least and the latest information, Dana Bash up on the hill for CNN is getting another source who confirms that there is now an investigation of another hotel, a Hilton Hotel, where some of this might have gone on. And then also we have the director of the Secret Service, Mark Sullivan, saying that he wants a comprehensive investigation, and that would mean investigating everybody who want on the trip, everybody with the Secret Service, also the hotel staff as well as women who were involved in this.
So it just continues, Michael.
HOLMES: What a tangled web. Jill Dougherty at the White House. Thanks, Jill.
Well, President Obama and Mitt Romney neck and neck in the latest polls. We'll take a look at what this means for both of their campaigns.
Do stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Republicans rally around Mitt Romney at their meeting in Arizona as the latest polls show Romney running neck and neck with President Obama.
And speaking of the president, he's getting some major fund-raising help from actor, George Clooney. More on that ahead. But first, let's bring in our political panel, Democratic strategist and CNN contributor, Maria Cardona, and Republican Matt Lewis, senior contributor "The Daily Caller."
Let's start with this poll, people, showing President Obama and Mitt Romney statistically pretty much tied. That seems significant really there.
The CNN poll of polls is actually an average of six national surveys that does show President Obama with a slight edge, 47 percent to 44 percent.
Romney closing the gap with Mr. Obama, he has been meeting with the Republican National Committee members in Arizona today to solidify his support. Do you think this is a sign of Romney gaining momentum? What do you think? Maria, let's start with you.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I don't think it's so much Romney gaining momentum as it is the Republicans finally coalescing around Mitt romney and understanding that they have to at least fall in like with him if he's going to have any competitive chance against President Obama.
But if you look at all the polls and if you dig deeper in the numbers, Romney is still in a lot of trouble with some key demographics, including independent voters, including independent women, the gender gap is still as wide as the Grand Canyon.
He is in deep trouble with Latinos. So if you look at the numbers in the polls, Mitt Romney still has a lot of work to do, and also in terms of the issues that voters look at.
For example, President Obama is still very much ahead of Mitt Romney in terms of who voters look to for somebody that understands what they're going through, somebody who understands and wants to protect the middle class and workers and somebody who's likable.
HOLMES: There are all those sort of sub areas, but 47 percent, 44 percent, Matt, I mean, he'd be pretty pleased with that, wouldn't he?
MATT LEWIS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Absolutely. Look, two weeks ago, everybody was talking about what a disaster the Republican primary was, Rick Santorum was still challenging Mitt Romney.
I think the big story is two short weeks later, Mitt Romney has, you know, coalesced conservatives and Republicans around him, and the narrative has changed.
We're not talking about Rick Santorum and this ugly primary. We're talking about Barack Obama eating dog meat. We're talking about a war on moms. Republicans have to be happy with the way they've turned that narrative around. HOLMES: There are wars on everything at the moment. That's for sure. Romney on a glide path to the nomination, there's speculation, of course, about the whole running mate debate as well.
One name that kept popping up, of course, is Senator Marco Rubio. He's repeatedly denied that he wants the job, but have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Five, six, seven years from now if I do good job as vice president -- I'm sorry. As senator, if I do a good job as a senator instead of a vice president, I will have a chance to do all sorts of things, including commissioner of the NFL, which is where the real power is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Freudian slip, Matt?
LEWIS: I don't know.
HOLMES: I don't either.
LEWIS: I don't believe -- when people say they don't want to be vice president, I don't believe them because that's what you're supposed to say.
And, look, if Mitt Romney turns to Marco Rubio, Rubio obviously is very eloquent, inspiring, he's from Florida. There are a lot of reasons to pick him.
You know, when someone comes to you and says your party needs you, your nation needs you, do you turn them down? I don't know.
HOLMES: Yes, Maria, despite the close poll, talk about Marco Rubio as well. How would the Obama campaign be feeling right now? A little closer than they would like, I imagine.
CARDONA: Well, certainly. I mean, look, there's no question that the Obama campaign and this president has known from the very beginning and they have said this time and again that this is going to be an incredibly tough election.
That it's going to be very, very close because of the issue of the economy, because the economy that Obama inherited was so disastrous, and it has taken a long time to really dig us out of that hole.
But, you know, when it comes to somebody like Marco Rubio, I'm just going to take him at his word. He has said time and again that he doesn't want to be vice president. He actually said also that he doesn't feel like he's prepared to be vice president.
So I'm just going to leave it at that, and then just add that no matter who Mitt Romney picks as his vice president. He's not going to be able to take away from the fact that he is somebody.
That right now that voters view, independent voters especially, women and Latinos, as somebody who is completely out of touch with what normal, everyday americans are going through and that is a critical piece.
HOLMES: We will be continuing this conversation, no doubt. Maria Cardona and Matt Lewis, appreciate you coming on.
CARDONA: Thank you so much.
HOLMES: I want to get back now to the case of Trayvon Martin. A judge has just set that $150,000 bond for George Zimmerman. He should be getting out of jail soon perhaps not today.
In a surprise move though, Zimmerman took the stand and apologized directly to Martin's parents. I want to bring in Mark O'Mara now, who is the attorney for Zimmerman, and we're pleased to have you here. You know, how risky was it to put him on the stand?
MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S ATTORNEY: It's always a risk when you put a criminal defendant on the stand. They have an absolute right not to, but George was quite sincere in his desire to respond to Trayvon's mom's request that he apologize.
And that he answer two questions, that dealing with if George knew Trayvon was young, a teenager, and two, if he knew he was armed or not. That's exactly what George did.
HOLMES: So you knew what he was going to say before he said it?
O'MARA: We were answering the questions posed to us by the mom.
HOLMES: Would you -- so in your view, it went well in terms of being able to get out some of the information that you wouldn't normally get out in a bond hearing?
O'MARA: I was glad to have an opportunity to review some of the probable cause affidavit and the evidence that led to it with one of the investigators. I think that brought some more light to the facts of the case.
HOLMES: So the comments about gun powder on the sweatshirt, there were comments about blood stippling and that, how does that help you?
O'MARA: Well, I don't know yet because I haven't seen the evidence and the discovery from the state. I'm sure it's all going to fit in together to give me some insight in the case, but taking one piece of evidence right now sort of out of sorts wouldn't make much sense.
HOLMES: What about the safety issues? There was all that anger out there and now he's going to be out. Are you concerned about that? Are precautions being taken? O'MARA: Very concerned about his safety and that of his family. Just because of the upwelling of emotions this case has sort of brought to the surface. We're going to try to keep him safe and secure. I need him out for my own purposes for the defense.
The family wants him out. He deserves to be out. I'm just hoping that everyone who has some preconceived notions about this case, maybe they got a bit of an insight today that it is not one- sided.
I thought the testimony presented by George's mom, though un- elicited by me, was compelling in talking about the son that she knows.
HOLMES: The other thing, too, you pretty much got him to admit that they didn't know who started the fight. That's got to help.
O'MARA: That was always a question that seemed to be presented by that little bit of evidence that was out so far. I'm glad we were able to at least shed some light on it.
HOLMES: So what happens now? Is he going to be out today, do you know?
O'MARA: I doubt it because there's a lot of logistic that is have to be worked out before that, so I think it's going to be another few days, couple days. I'm not sure yet. Now he is entitled to be released, and we'll get him out as soon as possible once we have everything else in place.
HOLMES: It's something about the system here, too, that's so much is able to be said unlike in other countries. So much is able to be said outside the confines of the courtroom. We heard Trayvon Martin family Attorney Benjamin Crump saying the family is devastated over Zimmerman's release. So much is said outside the courtroom. Is that an issue for you?
O'MARA: Well, yes, and actually which is why I have declined to talk about any specific evidence, is that the commentary from the family members, representatives of the families, even the media, is working off incomplete evidence.
And what happens is we then focus on one piece of evidence when it's not looked at in the whole. And I'm frustrated by that because then we have these rising of emotions when one picture comes out or another statement comes out.
That keeps everything more heightened than I think it should be. We need a fair, well thought out, rational analysis of the facts.
HOLMES: In other countries, the stuff that isn't said inside the court can't be said outside the court unless it's actually being said as part of evidence given inside the courtroom. It is a peculiarly American thing. I'm curious how he is at the moment. Can you tell me? O'MARA: He's happy that we have a bond amount. He's happy that he was not denied bail. Now we just need to figure out how to keep him secure and safe. I think he's relieved he knows he'll be leaving jail and will get back to his family and get back to the idea of helping me with the defense.
HOLMES: And the family is not wealthy. Are they going to be able to raise the money?
O'MARA: We're working on it now. It's going to be tough.
HOLMES: It's going to be tough?
O'MARA: Absolutely. That's a lot of money for a family that has very little means and, of course, George can no longer work, and his wife has been in school.
HOLMES: I'm sorry, will there be a possibility he couldn't raise the money?
O'MARA: Yes.
HOLMES: So he would then just stay in jail obviously.
O'MARA: If he were to stay in jail because of a complete inability to raise the funds, I might be able to readdress the bond amount with Judge Lester because at that point it will have been found to be too high.
And I don't think the judge intended to set a bond so high that he couldn't meet it. My hopes are that we will put together the money to get it taken care of.
HOLMES: All right, we'll leave it there, Mark O'Mara. Thanks so much, attorney for Mr. Zimmerman.
O'MARA: You're welcome.
HOLMES: Thanks so much.
Incredible story now, three men stranded at sea for two weeks in a tiny fishing boat. Then you have travelers on a passing cruise ship who spot them. They tell the ship's crew, but no one helps.
Ultimately, two of the men on that boat died. What went wrong? We're going to talk with one of the cruise ship passengers who tried to get them help. Stay with us.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: A U.S. cruise line expressing regret over the ship's failure to rescue three stranded fishermen, incredible story. Two of those men actually died. The third was rescued after drifting for 28 days in the Pacific Ocean. Passengers on a bird watching expedition saw the ship in trouble.
JUDY MEREDITH, CRUISE SHIP PASSENGER: We could see him doing this with his shirt over and over and over.
JEFF GILLIGAN, CRUISE SHIP PASSENGER: This was a boat that had lost power and was out in this tropical ocean far from land.
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HOLMES: Passengers notified a crew member, but the cruise line says the captain apparently never got the information. Jeff Gilligan is one of the passengers, you saw him there, who tried to get help for that stranded boat.
Jeff, the cruise line today said it deeply regrets the death of the two fishermen. And before I ask you a question, they issued this statement. I want to read it. Quote, "preliminary results of our investigation have shown that there appeared to be a breakdown in communication in relaying the passenger's concern. Neither Captain Edward Perrin nor the officer of the watch were notified. Understandably, Captain Perrin is devastated that he is being accused of knowingly turning his back on people in distress. Had the captain received this information, he would have had the opportunity to respond."
What do you make of that explanation? I mean you did try.
JEFF GILLIGAN, SAW STRANDED FISHING BOAT: We definitely communicated with staff on the ship. He communicated with the bridge. We have no personal knowledge as to whom he was talking with on the telephone on the ship. The crew person that we spoke with declined to let us talk to the bridge directly.
HOLMES: It seems incredible that it never did get passed on, doesn't it? I mean you were on a bird watching trip apparently and so that's why you had a heck of a camera and were able to take the photograph we have now on the screen. What did you see when you're looking through that photograph? What are you thinking?
GILLIGAN: Well, we were looking through powerful spotting scopes before I took those photographs, and we -- the three of us -- couldn't come up with any reasonable explanation why somebody would have been flagging with two different colors of cloth, clothing or whatever it was, to our ship from perhaps two miles away on a little boat that wasn't moving over 100 miles from the coast.
HOLMES: Now, once you told --
GILLIGAN: Unless they were in distress.
HOLMES: Yes, exactly. And when --
GILLIGAN: Unless they're --
HOLMES: Yes, no, I got it. Now, when you passed on the information, what's going through your head as your vessel just keeps on going?
GILLIGAN: We were incredulous. We showed the person on the -- from the crew the event, what was going on through the spotting scope. He said that he could see what we had described. He went back in. We thought he had recommunicated with the bridge. And we fully expected the ship to turn around or to send a tender boat out to investigate and/or rescue if somehow -- or at least investigate in case we were somehow inaccurate as to what our suspicions -- as to our suspicions.
HOLMES: It must have been a check of a feeling of helpless in a way. I know that, you know, someone else e-mailed the Coast Guard. And you guys really did try. We have a photograph of one of the fishermen who was rescued and he talked about having to survive on raw fish until the fish went rotten because they had caught fish on this expedition. And then once his friends died, having to get rid of their bodies. Now these two chaps were still alive at this time. He had to slide the bodies off the boat when they started to rot. I'm sure that just must add to your sense of frustration. When you look back on this whole experience now, I don't know, what do you think?
GILLIGAN: It's just a -- it's just horrible thing. I'm sick about it. And we asked other passengers, do you have any other advice for us as to what we should do? And we even told another officer on the ship within maybe a day and a half about it. He didn't respond. And only when we got back to the U.S. and the other fellow back to Ireland did we learn that our suspicions were correct.
HOLMES: Well, Jeff, obviously you and those other passengers did your very best. I appreciate you telling us about it. Just quite an extraordinary breakdown in communications. Jeff Gilligan, thanks.
I want to bring in Chad Myers, actually, to join the conversation.
You can fill us in a bit. I mean, it is incredible. I mean you must think that the captain didn't get the message.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: The first thing you learn when you get your Chapman Piloting book is that, if you see someone in distress, you must help them.
HOLMES: It's the law.
MYERS: I cannot tell you how many times I've taken a stranded boat, hooked it the back of my boat and drag them back to the dock.
HOLMES: Yes.
MYERS: You know, and I think, is anybody going to have to drag me back? I go, nope, nope, I'm good. I'm good being the dragger. I'm OK. So I know that that captain, in his heart, would have stopped that boat. Would have turned it around and gone back to those two people.
HOLMES: It's actually maritime law.
MYERS: In fact -- yes. In fact Princess says that this has happened 30 times in the past 10 years where we have stopped our cruise ships and we have gone to help people in distress. So we do this. It isn't something that we would ever not do.
HOLMES: What -- go on. I'm sorry.
MYERS: It's a beautiful place. You're going to ask where it was.
HOLMES: I was just going to ask exactly where it is, yes.
MYERS: It's the Galapagos Islands. And that's why they had their bird spotting scopes. You don't really go on like a -- you know, a Carnival Cruise to the Caribbean with your bird spotting scope. The Galapagos Islands, here they are, off the coast of Ecuador. A beautiful place. And you can read about it. There are species there that aren't anywhere else because it's so very far away from other land. Obviously a remote place though. Not many cruise ships going by this. A long-term cruise ship going to that destination.
HOLMES: Yes.
MYERS: And then nobody else came to find them for 14 more days.
HOLMES: It is an extraordinary place. I was going to say, species -- wasn't it Darwin studied the species there and --
MYERS: Exactly. You bet.
HOLMES: Yes, no, extraordinary place. Huge turtles.
Good to see you, Chad.
MYERS: Good to see you.
HOLMES: We'll chat with you later. Chad Myers.
All right. Well, she is the -- a mother and she is the mayor of Gary, Indiana. So how does she juggle home, life, and a 24/7 job really?
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MAYOR KAREN FREEMAN-WILSON, GARY, INDIANA: The first thing is that you have to be family focused. If I'm not family focused, then I'm no good to any of the citizens of Gary.
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HOLMES: Well, the CNN "In Depth" now. The ongoing political debate over working moms versus stay-at-home moms is something every mom can weigh in on. Our Ted Rowlands introduces us to a mom who is also a mayor.
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MAYOR KAREN FREEMAN-WILSON, GARY, INDIANA: Let me remind you that we didn't get her overnight. TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Karen Freeman-Wilson at work. The newly elected mayor of Gary, Indiana, is listening to a room full of frustrated people who want answers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My neighborhood looks like a dump all the time because I've got people just dumping their trash out in my streets.
ROWLANDS: It's hard to imagine a working mother with a tougher job than Freeman-Wilson. Gary is a city that's more than $40 million in debt, an unemployment rate of 16 percent, and it has one of the worst crime rates in the country.
FREEMAN-WILSON: How you doing?
JORDAN WILSON, MAYOR'S DAUGHTER: I'm good.
FREEMAN-WILSON: Good. All right.
ROWLANDS: The mayor's daughter, 18-year-old Jordan, is a senior in high school. Freeman-Wilson says it can be tough juggling career and family.
FREEMAN-WILSON: The first thing is that you have to be family focused. If I'm not family focused, then I'm no good to any of the citizens of Gary. The other is that I have to have help. I've been very blessed to have a very supportive husband.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Solemnly swear --
FREEMAN-WILSON: Do solemnly swear.
ROWLANDS: Freeman-Wilson has always been a working mom with a demanding career. She served as Indiana's attorney general, and before that she was a judge.
WILSON: Sometimes she -- her presence is -- or would be appreciated, you know, sometimes at the dinner table or at certain events. But one thing I'll say is, even with her hectic schedule, she's always managed to be there for important things in my life.
ROWLANDS: Jordan runs track and is a cheerleader. Last year her school made it to the state championship.
FREEMAN-WILSON: I didn't get a chance to go, and that's something that I really regretted not being able to do. But I think that the other side of that is that she has gotten a tremendous amount of exposure. The exposure and those experiences give her another dimension and help her to frame her decisions and frame her future in a different way.
ROWLANDS: Jordan says her mom has inspired her to pursue political science when she starts college in the fall at Howard University in Washington, D.C. Freeman-Wilson says she completely respects stay-at-home moms but knew it wasn't for her. FREEMAN-WILSON: The thing that's important, I think, for me as a mom, for me as a woman, is to do my best to create a spectrum of choices for my daughter and others in her generation and the next generation so that they can make the choice that suit them and their families best.
ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, CNN, Gary, Indiana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Time now for "The Help Desk," where we get answers to your financial questions. Joining me this hour, Gary Schatsky is a financial planner and president of objectiveadvice.com, Carmen Wong Ulrich is the president of ALTA Wealth Management.
Thank you both for coming in.
GARY SCHATSKY, PRESIDENT, OBJECTIVEADVICE.COM: A pleasure.
CARMEN WONG ULRICH, PRESIDENT, ALTA WEALTH MANAGEMENT: Thanks, Poppy.
HARLOW: Carmen, your question today comes from Susan in California. Susan wrote in, "we have a mortgage at 5.9 percent and have been paying for 10 years. Should we refinance or continue with the mortgage we have?" Let's assume she has a 30 year.
ULRICH: And let's assume that she wants to stay put. If they're willing to stay put in the house and they want to stay there for five, 10 years, that's great. Because, don't forget, that when you refi, there are costs involved and even taxes.
HARLOW: Yes.
ULRICH: So depending on the state you're in, you need to be able to stay there long enough to recoup all of those costs. But 5.9, very expensive. Very expensive.
HARLOW: In this environment.
ULRICH: In this environment, absolutely. At the worst case, she'd probably qualify for a 4.5. But make sure that you've already put 10 years in, make it a 20-year. Don't give up those years.
HARLOW: Right. Absolutely.
Gary, your question comes from Jim in Texas. Jim wrote in, "I want to pay off my credit cards and build my emergency fund. What percent of my income should I devote to each?"
SCHATSKY: Well, there's no fixed percentage. But let me just say this. You know, paying down credit card debt in the current investment environment is probably the best investment anyone can make.
ULRICH: Yes. SCHATSKY: So, you know, if they have a high interest credit card, which most people do have, they'll be willing to lend you more at that rate anytime. So I'd be putting most of your money toward the credit cards. That should be the major focus. You can't get that interest rate anywhere else. And if it's a high interest rate, there will be a lot of people lining up to lend to you again.
HARLOW: Yes, bravo to him for wanting to pay down those cards and have an energy fund.
SCHATSKY: Absolutely.
HARLOW: Good. All Americans should think that way.
Thank you both.
If you have a question you want answered, just send us an e-mail any time to cnnhelpdesk@cnn.com.
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